Indians taking away American jobs is a myth

[Caoriben]

22 Mar 2010

NEW YORK: Urging the US to reform its visa policies, commerce minister Anand Sharma said on Sunday that the paranoia of the Americans about Indians taking away their jobs, especially in the IT and services sectors, is a myth.

There is an incorrect perception in the US that Indians are taking away the jobs of Americans, which is driven more by the fast-paced growth India in the IT and services sectors, Sharma told newsmen.
Citing three recent reports, including one by PricewaterhouseCoopers and International Business Forum, Sharma said, "contrary to popular perception, Indian BPO companies have created income worth $106 billion inside the US in the past three years ending 2009, and generated 3,00,000 jobs out of which 2,50,000 were filled by Americans."

"These are jobs for Americans created in America but by Indian companies. This is a myth that jobs are being taken away by Indians," Sharma said.

On the issue of India swamping the US with its massive services sector, the minister pointed out that though India is an exporter of services, it is a net importer of services, and there is a mutual exchange of services between the two countries.

"It is more or less balanced and if there is a tilt that tilt is in the favour of the US," Sharma said, adding, "we have more nationals from here and we are welcoming them, as we do not want any restrictions as strategic partners."

The minister called on the American corporate leaders to create greater sensitivity and awareness among ill-informed politicians who seek to create barriers in the trade between the two countries.
"I have been urging US corporate leaders that since you are aware of these facts, go in a delegation and sit with Congress people," Sharma said, noting that accurate information would cause politicians to stop pushing forth unhelpful amendments.

On a three-day visit to Washington where he met his counterpart Ron Kirk, before arriving in New York, Sharma pressed upon American officials to relax visa norms for Indian professionals.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/services/travel/visa-power/Indians-taking-away-American-jobs-is-a-myth-Anand-Sharma/articleshow/5709726.cms

[Scriptable]

22 Mar 2010

NEW YORK: Urging the US to reform its visa policies, commerce minister Anand Sharma said on Sunday that the paranoia of the Americans about Indians taking away their jobs, especially in the IT and services sectors, is a myth.

...

Sharma pressed upon American officials to relax visa norms for Indian professionals.


Dominos Keep Falling in H1-B Visa Fraud Schemes

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Government-IT/Dominos-Keep-Falling-in-H1B-Visa-Fraud-Schemes/?kc=EWKNLCSM03032009STR3

Federal, state and local authorities are tightening the noose on H1-B fraud schemes in the United States, where the Customs and Immigration Service claims 1 in 5 H1-B visas are obtained under false pretenses. New Jersey and Massachusetts are the most recent focus of H1-B fraud scams.

...

U.S. Attorney Matthew Whitaker said at a Feb. 12 press conference that the indictments were "just the tip of the iceberg" when it comes to U.S. visa fraud. "This is an enforcement effort that points to a significant vulnerability in our visa process, and we're trying to close these loopholes and to take away the incentive to conduct these fraudulent schemes," Whitaker said.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh6OLUPSHyE

[Panchito12]

22 Mar 2010Citing three recent reports, including one by PricewaterhouseCoopers and International Business Forum, Sharma said, "contrary to popular perception, Indian BPO companies have created income worth $106 billion inside the US in the past three years ending 2009, and generated 3,00,000 jobs out of which 2,50,000 were filled by Americans."


So the author contradicts himself and proves that foreigners are taking jobs from Americans.

[Euroamerican]

What would you expect from the India Times?

The "take" that that jobs are NOT going to India is a gigantic mistruth. In fact, it's an outright effing lie.

In my company alone, over 800 US citizens have been laid off and their jobs taken over by people in India n the last two years. That is JUST in Information Technology.

Hundreds and hundress of accountants, financial people, and even bookkeepers are also on the streets. A team in IT that used to have twelve US citizens on it now only has two. The team now has a dozen or so Indians on it. Another company down the street HAD about a dozen network engineers on it. Now, only one is left. The eleven guys are all reportedly unemployed now. The roles have move to, guess where, India.

[BMUS]

So the author contradicts himself and proves that foreigners are taking jobs from Americans.
No, it proves amercians steal foreigners jobs.

OnT: I always love the way people says things like 'steal jobs'. Maybe they just gave it to the most qualified? Last time I checked American education weren't altogether top-notch compared to other countries, and still they want more pay.

[junglejim]

Well, that's what you get for not working overtime without pay. If you take 2/3s cut in your salaries, work on Saturdays and Christmas holidays for free, maybe you guys wouldn't have such problems. I mean damn, get with the program, you pried the doors open of other nations forcing them to join the Global economy and when it bites you in the ass, you complain.

[brainplay]

Maybe they just gave it to the most qualified? Last time I checked American education weren't altogether top-notch compared to other countries,

Check again..
The job transfers aren't due to education but how cheap the services are provided. In the case of India it's dirt cheap. Much like how we get our tennis shoes Pakistan or Ipods from China for pennies on the dollar.

[BMUS]

Check again..
The job transfers aren't due to education but how cheap the services are provided. In the case of India it's dirt cheap. Much like how we get our tennis shoes Pakistan or Ipods from China for pennies on the dollar.
Yes. The labour is cheap, no one is denying that. Still; the Indians and the Chineses aren't the old dim-witted farmers who's been forced to work in the factory any more. India has made a huge leap the last decades seen to its domestic educational system. Now they come along, having the same education, but demanding less in pay, as a businessman the choice is easy. We in the West have been having it good for a long time. Maybe we got a little bit to used to it?

[Panchito12]

No, it proves amercians steal foreigners jobs.

No it proves that you did not read the article. If 3 million jobs were generated in the US by these Indians, and only 2.05 million are given to Americans, then who gets the rest? If Americans did not get the jobs created in their own country, then who got them?


OnT: I always love the way people says things like 'steal jobs'. Maybe they just gave it to the most qualified? Last time I checked American education weren't altogether top-notch compared to other countries, and still they want more pay.

My education is equal-to or superior to that of most foreigners. You better "check" again.

[Corrupt]

No it proves that you did not read the article. If 3 million jobs were generated in the US by these Indians, and only 2.05 million are given to Americans, then who gets the rest? If Americans did not get the jobs created in their own country, then who got them?
My education is equal-to or superior to that of most foreigners. You better "check" again.

So an Indian company creates 3 million jobs and 2.05 milion of them go to the US and they're accused of stealing US jobs? You'd rather they created no jobs and left 2 million Americans unemployed then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
Well quite a few countries such as Georgia, Poland, Tonga and Cuba have slightly higher literacy rates than the US, so maybe it isnt?

[Chulo]

So they decide to pick on those millions of qualified, intelligent people that have pay taxes and fill in the proper paper work and ignore the millions that dont.. Makes sense

[dava]

Everyone knows only the Chinese steal our jobs!!

[NeoConPatriot]

I was with the same company for 15 years working in various levels of IT management. In March of 09' my company outsourced 3/4 of it's IT to India and I lost my job, along with 200 others in my area. My personal experiance tells me we are losing IT jobs to India.

[vinny_121_ND]

No it proves that you did not read the article. If 3 million jobs were generated in the US by these Indians, and only 2.05 million are given to Americans, then who gets the rest? If Americans did not get the jobs created in their own country, then who got them?


Americans got their jobs created by the Indian companies. Not the other way around.

[pacifist]

They work for less money.

[acosta]

Everyone knows only the Chinese steal our jobs!!

someone need shoot down your re%tard hysteria...

[Panchito12]

So an Indian company creates 3 million jobs and 2.05 milion of them go to the US and they're accused of stealing US jobs? You'd rather they created no jobs and left 2 million Americans unemployed then?



Thank you for creating the jobs in America....but don't expect to bring in your crowd to fill some of them. You create them here, they're for our workers. Period.

Let me create 3 million jobs in India but I reserve 900,000 of them for US-citizens only and see how fast I'm accused of colonialism.

[pg_ord]

They work for less money.
Correct, it comes down to cost of living. Cost of living in India <<<<<<<< USA.

Let me create 3 million jobs in India but I reserve 900,000 of them for US-citizens only and see how fast I'm accused of colonialism.
There are plenty of westerners working in India. Unlike before, they do so now on India salaries. ;)
Off late I am impressed by the fact that some of them take buses/trains to commute to their place of work.

[Panchito12]

There are plenty of westerners working in India. Unlike before, they do so now on India salaries. ;)
Off late I am impressed by the fact that some of them take buses/trains to commute to their place of work.

There are more Indians working in the US than Westerners working in India. They do so at US salaries. And I'm not impressed one bit that they normally choose take their own privately-owned, quality vehicle to their place of work.

You don't see Americans beating down the doors of the Indian Embassy on Massachussets Avenue here in DC, but just gander on over to the US Embassy in New Dehli or the US Counsulates in Bombay*, Madras*, Calcutta*, and check out the daily monster line in the Consular section.


*I stick with the old names.

[Corrupt]

Thank you for creating the jobs in America....but don't expect to bring in your crowd to fill some of them. You create them here, they're for our workers. Period.

Let me create 3 million jobs in India but I reserve 900,000 of them for US-citizens only and see how fast I'm accused of colonialism.

Riiight, so all those US companies employing US citizens abroad should be forced to lay of US workers and employ locals in the interests of fairness. Or is it one rule for the US and another for everyone else when it suits you? They created over two million jobs for the US, Id be quite happy with 2 million jobs in the UK even if there were another million going to Indians with the same company.

[pg_ord]

There are more Indians working in the US than Westerners working in India. They do so at US salaries. And I'm impressed that they normally take their own privately owned vehicle to their place of work.

You can always ask them to leave. It is not really that difficult and don't give me those evil corporations crap.


You don't see Americans beating down the doors of the Indian Embassy in Massachussets Avenue, but just gander on over to the US Embassy in New Dehli or the US Counsulates in Bombay*, Madras*, Calcutta*, and check out the line in the Consular section.

*I stick with the old names.
I am one of them. I came in as a student. ;)

[Blue P]

Thank you for creating the jobs in America....but don't expect to bring in your crowd to fill some of them. You create them here, they're for our workers. Period.

Let me create 3 million jobs in India but I reserve 900,000 of them for US-citizens only and see how fast I'm accused of colonialism.

you would rather allowing 2.05 millions us. citizens jobless than having 3 millions taxers, including 950,000 indians.

most effective attitude to keep the investors at bay, and your economics low.

[Panchito12]

you would rather allowing 2.05 millions us. citizens jobless than having 3 millions taxers, including 950,000 indians....


No need to import an alien workforce when you have 950,000 locals willing to take the job here. Right?


..... and your economics low.

But if you want to keep your economics really low, then just don't hire any Americans and import your whole workforce pay them a pittance wage and lodge them like the Chicom do back in the PRC.

[pg_ord]

In all this noise about third world people "stealing jobs", one forgets the nuances. Free movement of labor is one of the sweeteners agreed to by developed countries in exchange for market access to developing countries. Now you might argue that restrictions on import of labor is particular nation's sovereign rights, but this would mean that punitive tariffs on import of goods are sovereign rights too.
It is a result of concessions wrung out from carefully crafted negotiations by our babus during GATT and WTO negotiations.

[Blue P]

No need to import an alien workforce when you have 950,000 locals willing to take the job here. Right?

But if you want to keep your economics really low, then just don't hire any Americans and import your whole workforce pay them a pittance wage and lodge them like the Chicom do back in the PRC.

then you can keep that 2.05 millions jobless americans to collect their social welfare. hope when the potential investors depart without leaving a cent behind, they can be as optimistic as you are now.

the investors will find a better place where they don't get bullied by greedy unions and actually make their money pay off anyway. that's for sure.

[Corrupt]

No need to import an alien workforce when you have 950,000 locals willing to take the job here. Right?
No need for an indian company to provide you with over two million jobs either. Its all about give and take...

[Panchito12]

No need for an indian company to provide you with over two million jobs either. Its all about give and take...

....so you say that it's ok if jobs come with race/ethnic based demands built into the offer?

[Corrupt]

....so you say that it's ok if jobs come with race/ethnic based demands built into the offer?

I doubt it had such a demand in the offer anyway, but no, but Im saying that in this "globalised" world you cant expect every single job in the US to be given to a born American with his(or her) 2.4 children and white picket fence.

How would it be any better if the US said "you many only expand a business here if you employ solely US citizens". That would be just as discriminatory. Do you want to have a go at BaE for explanding into the US land weapons systems market? Im sure theres a few Brits employed over there now as a result

The issue Im having here is an Indian company producing over 2 millions jobs for the US and you accuse them of stealing US jobs because they employed some of their own nationals too?

[pg_ord]

^ point is one can't expect Indians to buy US designed goods like i-pods and dell computers if you don't employ Indians. Of course US has the choice of not opting to explore Indian Markets altogether. All this whining about jobs stems out from over developed sense of entitlement....from both sides.

[Panchito12]

The issue Im having here is an Indian company producing over 2 millions jobs for the US and you accuse them of stealing US jobs because they employed some of their own nationals too?


I'm not accusing anyone of stealing. I'm saying that one should create jobs in India, for the Indians, and create jobs in America, for the Americans. No doubt that there are plenty of well-qualified Indians back home that are not employed because the job has gone to some foreigner. I have a HUGE problem with that....and viceversa.

But of course, for some reason that no one can explain to me, there is a HUGE demand back in India, by highly-educated persons, that want to come to the land of the big BX. And I just don't see the same reciprocal demand going the other way.

[HellToupee]

Its not the Indians fault American and others companies seek labour at the lowest cost, its capitalism at work, western work forces are just not competitive with people willing to work for peanuts.

[Corrupt]

I'm not accusing anyone of stealing. I'm saying that one should create jobs in India, for the Indians, and create jobs in America, for the Americans. No doubt that there are plenty of well-qualified Indians back home that are not employed because the job has gone to some foreigner. I have a HUGE problem with that....and viceversa.

But of course, for some reason that no one can explain to me, there is a HUGE demand back in India, by highly-educated persons, that want to come to the land of the big BX. And I just don't see the same reciprocal demand going the other way.

Why cant they create jobs for anyone who can fill them, that happen to be in the US? If it was a US company in the US having the jobs taken I can see the complaint...but only just. Fact is if they can do the job better or cheaper then why should they not be picked over average Joe? Perhaps they needed indian speaking skills to talk to their bosses in India? We dont know!

Because the average standard of living and wages are higher in the US maybe? Land of the free home of the brave and the right to get rich through hard work and all that?

[Mr.K]

No, it proves amercians steal foreigners jobs.

OnT: I always love the way people says things like 'steal jobs'. Maybe they just gave it to the most qualified? Last time I checked American education weren't altogether top-notch compared to other countries, and still they want more pay.

It not only about education, but more about getting a similar service for much less.
And let's not forget the invetors who want a performance on their investments.



"These are jobs for Americans created in America but by Indian companies. This is a myth that jobs are being taken away by Indians," Sharma said.


It's difficult to prove, but common knowelege that the owner of a company tends to pick people of similar ethnicity.
Asians tend hire Asians, Italians tend hire Italians, and so on.

[loganinkosovo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOWH-hyNkQ0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqPJfA6wCM

12345678910

[Danik]

How about we hire competent employees who can get the job done at the lowest cost. As someone in position over 10-15 Indians with masters degrees I can honestly say I would be better served by three US undergraduate interns.

[Darklord]

How about we hire competent employees who can get the job done at the lowest cost. As someone in position over 10-15 Indians with masters degrees I can honestly say I would be better served by three US undergraduate interns.

May be you should set an example by firing all those Indians and hiring three US undergraduate interns instead?

[CPL Trevoga]

Indian do not steal jobs, it's the Americans corporations who make a calculated decisions to save on labor and fatten the bottom line for their owners, moving productions and services overseas. Nothing personal, just business.

[Ought Six]

I work at one of the largest telecoms on the planet. On our test team of seven people, we have three Americans (one of which was born in Vietnam), two people on visas from India, one on a visa from China, and a supervisor on a visa from Morocco. This is in western Washington state.

[VAMAN]

There were times when American government used to force other countries to open up their economies to let American companies do business there. This is globalization it works both ways it profits you and it let others make some profit as well.

[plato]

when was the last time India had a trade surplus? I don't think they ever had one. correct me if i am wrong.

[shoora]

So an Indian company creates 3 million jobs and 2.05 milion of them go to the US and they're accused of stealing US jobs? You'd rather they created no jobs and left 2 million Americans unemployed then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
Well quite a few countries such as Georgia, Poland, Tonga and Cuba have slightly higher literacy rates than the US, so maybe it isnt?
Wow! Georgia number one? Actually, literacy in this country naturally can not be higher then in Armenia and Azerbaijan. I knew - Wiki is just a pile of junk.
Sorry for off topic...

Thank you for creating the jobs in America....but don't expect to bring in your crowd to fill some of them. You create them here, they're for our workers. Period.
Did any government official bothered to ask your opinion? BTW, you may want to know how many of 2,050,000 US citizens are recently naturalized :-)

[Corrupt]

Wow! Georgia number one? Actually, literacy in this country naturally can not be higher then in Armenia and Azerbaijan. I knew - Wiki is just a pile of junk.
Sorry for off topic...

It also quotes the source for the statistics down to the page. "The United Nations Development Report 2009" Page 171

[pocoloco]

Blah, here's to hoping that this thread would have been about Indians as in Native Americans :P

Well, jobs come and go, that's being part of the world economy.

[Jaegermeister + Red Bull]

No it proves that you did not read the article. If 3 million jobs were generated in the US by these Indians, and only 2.05 million are given to Americans, then who gets the rest? If Americans did not get the jobs created in their own country, then who got them?

My education is equal-to or superior to that of most foreigners. You better "check" again.

3,00,000 is THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND
2,50,000 is TWO HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND

Not 3 million, not 2.05 million.

The fact that not one poster here noticed this is epic.

[vinny_121_ND]

3,00,000 is THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND
2,50,000 is TWO HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND

Not 3 million, not 2.05 million.

The fact that not one poster here noticed this is epic.

I noticed it, it's panchito12. We're tired of him.

[shoora]

It also quotes the source for the statistics down to the page. "The United Nations Development Report 2009" Page 171
Which says a lot about quality (at least some) of UN reports and regings. Sociological studies have statistical error. Technically, all countries in range from 99 to 100% literacy should be considered as virtually 100% literal.
And in Georgia in distant villages I could find enough illiterate highlanders to blow away huge gap in 0.2% between Georgia and it's closest competitor.

[Sootan]

For the past few years, when I dial for IT support, I got transfered to India....