Britain to expel Irraeli diplomat

[Eoin666]

Breaking News

Britain to expel Israeli diplomat

Britain is to expel an Israeli diplomat over the cloning of British passports linked to the hit-squad killing of a Hamas commander, the BBC has learned.

Foreign Secretary David Miliband is due to make a statement to Parliament later.

Israel has denied allegations that its agents were behind the killing of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, in a Dubai hotel room in January.

Mr Miliband demanded that Tel Aviv co-operate fully with the investigation.

Twelve fake British passports were used in the killing of Mr al-Mabhouh, the founder of Hamas's military wing, in his hotel room in Dubai on 19 January.

[hulaku]

I guess you forgot to add the link.

[Eoin666]

That was quick, I was trying to correct the spelling!! :oops:......if a mod could please?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8582518.stm

From Sky news

Diplomat 'Expelled' Over Dubai Hit Passports

Katie Cassidy, Sky News Online
The UK is to expel an Israeli diplomat over cloned British passports used by the alleged assassins of an Hamas commander in Dubai.





Mossad, Israel's secret service, has widely been blamed for the murder of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in January.

Dubai police later revealed some members of the suspected hit squad had travelled on British identities.

Their passports appeared to have been copied from real documents belonging to Britons living in Israel.

Sky's foreign affairs editor Tim Marshall said the Government was not taking action over the assassination, but the duplicated documents.

"The Government believes they have compelling evidence that those passports were cloned, probably by some arm of the Israeli state.

"This is not a direct accusation by the UK that they have implicated Israel in the assassination.

"What Britain is saying is, they have evidence that the passports were cloned and they take it so seriously they are going to expel an Israeli diplomat."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Britain-To-Expel-An-Israeli-Diplomat-Over-Cloning-Of-Passport-Used-By-Hamas-Dubai-Assassins/Article/201003415580030?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15580030_Britain_To_Expel_An_Israeli_Diplomat_Over_Cloning_Of_Passport_Used_By_Hamas_Dubai_Assassins

[ZZEZ]

I support Turkish diplomat humiliation style against the British ambassador in Israel now...p-)

[Niall]

You forgot to add,



Diplomatic sources stressed the British government was not accusing Israel of involvement in the killing, our correspondent added.
He also stressed that the diplomat to be expelled would not be Israel's ambassador to London, Ron Prosor.
However the expulsion sends a very strong message of Britain's displeasure at the cloning of UK passports.

[IDF_TANKER]

I'm cool with that. Just a price we have to pay for our mistakes, I guess.

[Sootan]

I'm cool with that. Just a price we have to pay for our mistakes, I guess.

Ah, so you did off the guy ;-)

[IDF_TANKER]

Ah, so you did off the guy ;-)

Me, personally.

[MoFo]

Me, personally.

I heard he was a ****, GJ.

[RoyB]

They're not accusing Israel of the killing, but yet they still expel an Israeli diplomat over it.
Meh.

[Estopped]

They should expel the ambassador.

What they did was put at risk British citizens travelling all over the world. That sort of fraud should be treated with the highest contempt.

[Eoin666]

I'm cool with that. Just a price we have to pay for our mistakes, I guess.

Just a thought, but how cool would you be with some EU trade sanctions, travel and visa restrictions, sporting restrictions.......ironically that last one really hurt the South Africans......

[IDF_TANKER]

They should expel the ambassador.

What they did was put at risk British citizens travelling all over the world. That sort of fraud should be treated with the highest contempt.

Let's not get overexcited and repeat all over again the discussion about morals of the whole thing, OK? I doubt that using fake passports is unique to the Israeli secret services.

[IDF_TANKER]

Just a thought, but how cool would you be with some EU trade sanctions, travel and visa restrictions, sporting restrictions.......ironically that last one really hurt the South Africans......

Not cool.
...........

[Thumpsquid]

Rather than expel one of your diplomats, how about we expel you from the Eurovision Song Contest for one year?

[IDF_TANKER]

Rather than expel one of your diplomats, how about we expel you from the Eurovision Song Contest for one year?

Please, please, only not this!

[Connaught Ranger]

They should expel the ambassador.

What they did was put at risk British citizens travelling all over the world. That sort of fraud should be treated with the highest contempt.

Have you any actual, concrete proof that they (Israel) did anything

or are just flapping your jaw for the sake of it,

The British are already in a "Friend of America, so a Friend of Israel" catagory amongst the Islamic Fundamentalists,

British troops are in Iraq and in Afghanistan conducting combat operations or did that slip your notice?

And remember a person / nation is innocent until proven guilty.

Connaught Ranger.

[Estopped]

Have you any actual, concrete proof that they (Israel) did anything

or are just flapping your jaw for the sake of it,

The British are already in a "Friend of America, so a Friend of Israel" catagory amongst the Islamic Fundamentalists,
British troops are in Iraq and in Afghanistan conducting combat operations or did that slip your notice?
And remember a person / nation is innocent until proven guilty.
Connaught Ranger.

It just so happens that the cloned passports were all Israeli citizens of dual nationality. Let's face it, without being blind to the obvious the act was done by Israel. The circumstantial evidence is strong enough that the British government is expelling an Israeli diplomat in response. They know what's up and you're just picking issue for the sake of doing so.

I don't see what British troops in Iraq or Afghanistan has to do with this issue. You are just babbling unnecessarily.

This is not an issue of innocent until proven guilty. That argument is just a ruse in this case because everyone already knows the answer. I don't see the point in your playing the fool or devil's advocate. At least be honest in your arguments.

[Connaught Ranger]

It just so happens that the cloned passports were all Israeli citizens of dual nationality. Let's face it, without being blind to the obvious the act was done by Israel. The circumstantial evidence is strong enough that the British government is expelling an Israeli diplomat in response. They know what's up and you're just picking issue for the sake of doing so.

I don't see what British troops in Iraq or Afghanistan has to do with this issue. You are just babbling unnecessarily.

This is not an issue of innocent until proven guilty. That argument is just a ruse in this case because everyone already knows the answer. I don't see the point in your playing the fool or devil's advocate. At least be honest in your arguments.

I am, the active participation of British troops in combat in Irag and Afghanistan,

has been more than enough to encourage attacks against the U.K.

so your whinging about what Israel may or may not have done, means absolutely "zero"

with the regards of British citizens traveling the world.

Connaught Ranger.

[F16]

Somehow I think the guy who was asked to go away wasn't just a diplomat, but a mossad agent working under diplomatic cover, there must be a lot of them working at Mossad's London station under diplomatic protection. Good job Britain. Keep it up. I hope Ireland, Germany, Australia and France would follow.

[FrankBooth0]

Israelis selling the Dead Sea stuff in the mall= Mossad Agents

Quote me on that ****.

[Connaught Ranger]

Somehow I think the guy who was asked to go away wasn't just a diplomat, but a mossad agent working under diplomatic cover, there must be a lot of them working at Mossad's London station under diplomatic protection. Good job Britain. Keep it up. I hope Ireland, Germany, Australia and France would follow.


You really think it's going to make any difference.:roll:

Dont look now but your Juice Paranoia is showing. rofl

[Panchito12]

In the end some low-level guy is going to have to pack up and move. It's always the little guy who gets the shaft.

[Fat Lazy American]

It just so happens that the cloned passports were all Israeli citizens of dual nationality. Let's face it, without being blind to the obvious the act was done by Israel. The circumstantial evidence is strong enough that the British government is expelling an Israeli diplomat in response. They know what's up and you're just picking issue for the sake of doing so.

I don't see what British troops in Iraq or Afghanistan has to do with this issue. You are just babbling unnecessarily.

This is not an issue of innocent until proven guilty. That argument is just a ruse in this case because everyone already knows the answer. I don't see the point in your playing the fool or devil's advocate. At least be honest in your arguments.


So much for the whole "law" (international or otherwise) ruse. You've just promoted yourself to judge, jury and executioner. Congratulations.

[Panchito12]

Israelis selling the Dead Sea stuff in the mall= Mossad Agents

Quote me on that ****.

roflrofl

I'm always f***ing with those guys/gals in those mall kiosks about that. I thought I was the only one!

[kamaz]

So much for the whole "law" (international or otherwise) ruse. You've just promoted yourself to judge, jury and executioner. Congratulations.

lol, how many 'international' courts of law does US consult before CIA pushes a button to fire a Hellfire off a drone.. and poof! another beard meets his virgins. We act as a judge, jury and executioner every day without a peep from the press. Dont you just love hypocrisy?


This happens every day in Pakistan and A-stan. Spare me your moral indignation over some perceived bellicose breach of international law that is well known to be breached by every significant intel agency in the world.

If UK's domestic agencies concentrated as much effort on stopping their own home grown terrorists as they do tracking and prosecuting Mossad operatives who do the world a favor by taking out another Takfiri beard, maybe UK would have less instances of radicalism and terrorism like the tube bombings.

[kamaz]

So much for the whole "law" (international or otherwise) ruse. You've just promoted yourself to judge, jury and executioner. Congratulations.

unless you were responding to Estopped, sorry I think I got confused over your comment.

[OrangeWolf]

Just a thought, but how cool would you be with some EU trade sanctions, travel and visa restrictions, sporting restrictions.......ironically that last one really hurt the South Africans......

What the hell does South Africa have to do with this?

[Estopped]

So much for the whole "law" (international or otherwise) ruse. You've just promoted yourself to judge, jury and executioner. Congratulations.

Nearly every single one of those nations affected identify Israel as the culprit (and those are technically allies of Israel). Israel doesn't even deny it. If you are playing the fool at least be honest because there's no point really arguing because I know we both think Israel was responsible. And I doubt anyone on this whole forum thinks differently.

But if you like we could ask to identify those agents in Israel. But I doubt they would be offered up for interview.

[Estopped]

I am, the active participation of British troops in combat in Irag and Afghanistan,
has been more than enough to encourage attacks against the U.K.
so your whinging about what Israel may or may not have done, means absolutely "zero"
with the regards of British citizens traveling the world.
Connaught Ranger.

I'm afraid you've completely misunderstood the whole issue because in effect what you are saying is that it's ok for other nations to abuse our diplomatic good relations to pursue their personal vendetta's without constraint. What you are saying is basically that moral bankruptcy is perfectly fine because one wrong justifies another.

But there is a massive difference between the two.

Our nation decided to go to war with both those nations. We made our decision as a sovereign nation knowing the risks of what might happen. Israel's use of our passports in pursuing extra-judicial assassination not only compromises British citizens abroad, but also done without consent. This was plain and simple an abuse that should not go unchecked regardless of whether or not it competes with other "justifications" for ill-will towards our people.

[LineDoggie]

So Britain has no conclusive Proof Israel faked British Passports and Britain won't say Israel killed the Hamas Commander, but they're kicking a Israeli Diplomat out of the country anyway?


Is that to Appease Arab sensibilities? because it sure looks like it.

[kamaz]

Israel's use of our passports in pursuing extra-judicial assassination not only compromises British citizens abroad, but also done without consent.

"umm.. excuse me.. Mr.Milliband.. err or Mr.Brown, pardon me.. could we uh.. um.. could we use your national passports as a cover for our secret hit squad that wants to kill a mega terrorist? We promise to give the passports back, k, thanks bye!!"

[Estopped]

"umm.. excuse me.. Mr.Milliband.. err or Mr.Brown, pardon me.. could we uh.. um.. could we use your national passports as a cover for our secret hit squad that wants to kill a mega terrorist? We promise to give the passports back, k, thanks bye!!"

Exactly

They know what they did was wrong. And naturally we should make them aware of the consequences (which probably won't be much). But cumulatively these sorts of actions are remembered when Israel is in the firing line on the political front.

[kamaz]

Exactly

They know what they did was wrong. And naturally we should make them aware of the consequences (which probably won't be much). But cumulatively these sorts of actions are remembered when Israel is in the firing line on the political front.

this was an extremely dumb move by UK. They have no legal proof that Mossad was behind the hit, Milliband just said so himself, yet they expel their ambassador. He even referred to the hit team as 'terrorists'. Moral equivalence at its best. Everyone knows whats at stake here and whose interests were truly damaged. Miliband's assertion that UK citizens are at risk because of this hit is complete BS, everyone knows this. Again, if UK security agencies concentrated this much effort at eliminating and catching Islamic terrorists at home and abroad, as they do catching possible Mossad agents, UK would be a lot more secure.

Pathetic, truly pathetic from a weak Labor government.

[Estopped]

Pathetic, truly pathetic from a weak Labor government.

This is because you are thinking from a US/Israeli position.

For the UK the abuse of its passports are a slap in the face. As far as i'm concerned the action wasn't strong enough. We need to send a strong message that such actions from our supposed allies will not be tolerated.

[GiladS]

A symbolic slap on the wrist, we can live with that...

[Royal]

Is that to Appease Arab sensibilities? because it sure looks like it.

No, its to appease British sensibilities.

There is an election in the offing here and Israel is about as popular as apartheid-era South Africa here since Cast Lead. For once Milliband appears to actually be doing something and it will play well with the punters.

To be honest it plays well with me. I've got no problem with slotting terrorists, but if you're so bloody careless that you leave your mugs all over t'internet (and nick my country's passports to do it into the bargain) then you deserve what you get.

Its bad skills - someone got complacent and needs a slap - hopefully it won't come the same way it did for the CIA in Khost.

[LineDoggie]

On the one hand
"Diplomatic sources stressed the British government was not accusing Israel of involvement in the killing, our correspondent added."

Yet is punishing the Izzy's for exactly that? Which is it?


The UK is throwing a Diplomat out for the Fake Passports the UK doesnt say were faked by the Izzy's.

The UK is throwing a Diplomat out for the Killing , but doesnt say the Izzy's Killed him.

[IDF_TANKER]

On the one hand
"Diplomatic sources stressed the British government was not accusing Israel of involvement in the killing, our correspondent added."

Yet is punishing the Izzy's for exactly that? Which is it?


The UK is throwing a Diplomat out for the Fake Passports the UK doesnt say were faked by the Izzy's.

The UK is throwing a Diplomat out for the Killing , but doesnt say the Izzy's Killed him.

Apparently, they do have enough evidences that Israel indeed faked the passports (which is not necessarily a proof that Israel was involved in killings, if only circumstantial). I doubt they would do something dramatic as expelling a diplomat without having any proofs.

[Royal]

Diplomats - as opposed to Joe Biden - speak with forked tongue.

Its the way it is.

We know that you know that we know that you did it. But we're not going to put it on the record because we want be be chummy with you again in the future.

Lots of insinuations get thrown about. Everybody knows what is meant. Public is happy that something has been done. Life goes on.

[500]

elections are comming, need to please Muslim voters.

[CMNot]

elections are comming, need to please Muslim voters.

Yeah...

Detention without trial, bar from viewing evidence, blowing up Muslims on a daily basis...I'm sure sending a low level Israeli civil servant back to the sunshine state is really going to secure them Muslim votes rofl

And for your next trick?

[RoyB]

Not that I think that its done to appease Muslim voters, but the supposed 'diplomat' that got expelled is hardly a low level civil servant.. Most reports talk about the Mossad station chief.

[gazell]

this was an extremely dumb move by UK. They have no legal proof that Mossad was behind the hit, Milliband just said so himself, yet they expel their ambassador. He even referred to the hit team as 'terrorists'. Moral equivalence at its best. Everyone knows whats at stake here and whose interests were truly damaged. Miliband's assertion that UK citizens are at risk because of this hit is complete BS, everyone knows this. Again, if UK security agencies concentrated this much effort at eliminating and catching Islamic terrorists at home and abroad, as they do catching possible Mossad agents, UK would be a lot more secure.

Pathetic, truly pathetic from a weak Labor government.

A lot of it is your opinion, which you are entitled to of course, however some of your statements appear to be untrue.

I do not know of if he had referred to them as terrorists, but would be quite surprised if that were the case.

They have conducted an investigation, with the Jewish ambassador and Israel involved and seem to know exactly how and where the passports were cloned.

They are not expelling the ambassador (a number of citizens seem to think they should, more appropriately) but another diplomat.

They have been carrying out serious anti-terror activities, often to even the dislike of citizens.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7072314.ece

[Connaught Ranger]

This is because you are thinking from a US/Israeli position.

For the UK the abuse of its passports are a slap in the face. As far as i'm concerned the action wasn't strong enough. We need to send a strong message that such actions from our supposed allies will not be tolerated.

Your above comment would have some meaning IF the British Intelligence Services were above using the same techniques.

[500]

Yeah...

Detention without trial, bar from viewing evidence, blowing up Muslims on a daily basis...
No idea what u are talking about, but Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims, but he was talking against Israel and this talk made him extremely popular in Muslim world.

Every fart against Israel = +10 reputation points among Muslims.


I'm sure sending a low level Israeli civil servant back to the sunshine state is really going to secure them Muslim votes rofl
It's not low level and it deliberately was done to make it as public as possible. Its MAIN NEWS on Sky and BBC.

[Connaught Ranger]

this was an extremely dumb move by UK. They have no legal proof that Mossad was behind the hit, Milliband just said so himself, yet they expel their ambassador. He even referred to the hit team as 'terrorists'. Moral equivalence at its best. Everyone knows whats at stake here and whose interests were truly damaged. Miliband's assertion that UK citizens are at risk because of this hit is complete BS, everyone knows this. Again, if UK security agencies concentrated this much effort at eliminating and catching Islamic terrorists at home and abroad, as they do catching possible Mossad agents, UK would be a lot more secure.
Pathetic, truly pathetic from a weak Labor government.

Some good points above, if Milliband was in postion during the S.A.S. hit on Irish Republican Army terrorists in Gibralter,

a few years back he would probably have them (the S.A.S.) brought to trial for murder.

[gilgoul]

It just so happens that the cloned passports were all Israeli citizens of dual nationality. Let's face it, without being blind to the obvious the act was done by Israel. The circumstantial evidence is strong enough that the British government is expelling an Israeli diplomat in response. They know what's up and you're just picking issue for the sake of doing so.

I don't see what British troops in Iraq or Afghanistan has to do with this issue. You are just babbling unnecessarily.

This is not an issue of innocent until proven guilty. That argument is just a ruse in this case because everyone already knows the answer. I don't see the point in your playing the fool or devil's advocate. At least be honest in your arguments.

I am not a fan of any conspiracy theory, but your argument doesn't hold water.
I hold dual citizenship, and with my presence on the net and on open source records, it wouldn't be too hard for either the mossad, or ANY SERVICE wanting to INVOLVE ISRAEL, to steal my identity one way or another.
Not saying that the Mossad has nothing to do with it, but it is a bit easy to pull out conclusions on this one, and this doesn't constitute any circumstancial evidence that could be accepted by any decent judge and jury.

If indeed the Mossad is involved as the only agency in this operation, well, all in all, the operation was at least a partial success, since the target was eliminated and the team successfully exfiltrated, the consequences are left for politicians to deal with, but there is absolutely nothing shocking in using foreign passports in the trade of intelligence services.

Now Milliband get's himself a good occasion to get some "i get tough if I want" publicity by shooting at the general media punching ball, a punching ball that by itself doesn't understand, or care, that it is under general scrutiny for everyone of it's moves.

The dogs may bark; the caravan goes on!

BTW, when the French DGSE sunk the Rainbow Warrior, the Greenpeace flagship, in the port of Auckland, in july 1985, an explosion that killed a photo-journalist; two agents were arrested, while under a false identity using SWISS PASSPORTS.
And I doubt the MI6 works around using her Majesty's issued passports.

So please spare us the hypocritical or naive cry for "justice".

[RIPTIDE]

Rather than expel one of your diplomats, how about we expel you from the Eurovision Song Contest for one year?
I support this 100%. ANyone care to remember 'Dana International'?

115466

And before you guys get your ckcs out, that was a man.

[Neoboy]

Seems nothing more than a symbolic slap on the wrist to show public that the government has backbone. I can only assume that they thought it would look bad in the eyes of the ordinary voter if nothing was done with strong links of Israel to the incident. Elections are near, just a shame there's not much alternative, we really need some good politicians to come through.

[IDF_TANKER]

I support this 100%. ANyone care to remember 'Dana International'?

115466

And before you guys get your ckcs out, that was a man.

This is just the part of the truth - not only she was a man... she was a Mossad agent!!!

[Keenan]

haha wow, the mossad is great at assassinating political dissidents- not so great at the lying part.

[IDF_TANKER]

haha wow, the mossad is great at assassinating political dissidents- not so great at the lying part.

You are right, Mossad is a very honest secret service.
Who was the "political dissidents", you referred to? Just out of curiosity.

[FrankBooth0]

This is just the part of the truth - not only she was a man... she was a Mossad agent!!!

Of course, Operation Tuck and Cover.

[IDF_TANKER]

Of course, Operation Tuck and Cover.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFL1UXuHJ-A

.................

[LineDoggie]

Your above comment would have some meaning IF the British Intelligence Services were above using the same techniques.

Oh, No you didn't go there...... rofl Thats cold man, love it.

[OrangeWolf]

But would you do Dana International if you didn't know about her *** change operation?

[IDF_TANKER]

But would you do Dana International if you didn't know about her *** change operation?

No, even if I thought she is just a transvestite in a drag, I still wouldn't do her. What a strange question.

[CMNot]

I saw more than one "girl" like Dana in Tel Aviv. Most confusing place. Especially if you don't know where you should, and shouldn't, go when drunk.

[Blackcatnursery]

Pathetic attempt by this Government to look tough. No concrete proof that it was an Israeli hit.
To be honest we should be giving them a medal. Pity they cannot concentrate on finding all the other people in this country who have fake UK passports and expel them as well.

[Peanut]

This is cute.

Everybody is stating their opinions based on their political or national standpoints rather than applying logic. In order to really know what's going on with the issue, one would need to be involved in this "crisis".

Reading CNN after your morning jerk doesn't count.

[FrankBooth0]

Obviously you are the voice of reason, not just being condescending.

[Lazy Lob]

David fvkin Miliband, yer fekin tosser, it went flat. No one gives a shyte you fvkin tw@t. He's like a wet fart with a follow through.

[IDF_TANKER]

This is cute.

Everybody is stating their opinions based on their political or national standpoints rather than applying logic. In order to really know what's going on with the issue, one would need to be involved in this "crisis".

Reading CNN after your morning jerk doesn't count.

Aaaaand? Are you going to enlighten us, oh wise one? Or us plebeians are not worthy your pearls of wisdom?

[Blackcatnursery]

David fvkin Miliband, yer fekin tosser, it went flat. No one gives a shyte you fvkin tw@t. He's like a wet fart with a follow through.
Actually a very true assessment.. What makes it even better is he will be 'unemployed' in a couple of months time as well.
Whenever I see him on TV he reminds me of Action Man, without the scar or the personality.

[aed1980]

I'm cool with that. Just a price we have to pay for our mistakes, I guess.

Completely agree with you.
It may sound funny but i think mossad really underestimated dubai security services or simply didnt care, will never know.

[ting]

I wonder if this Mossad hit will have an effect on UK passport holders? Lets say every passport holder has to wait 2 extra minutes while some customs official looks up and down at them typing something every time they travel to the middle east.

How many Brits arrive in the middle east each day? This could add up to a lot of time, not to mention discomfort of being at the mercy of a customs officials vims in an undemocratic country.

If I were a Brit I'd demand a hell of a lot more than the expulsion of the Mossad station chief, Id demand his head on a platter.

But Brits are such cool characters with their stiff upper lips. Us Norwegians on the other hand can sometimes get a bit hot headed.

[Panchito12]

I have no doubt that a couple of operators in that Dubai hit team may have just been Americans, and if they were, one of these days they're going to get found in the US. For the right price from the press they will be exposed, or for the right price from the right people....they'll get sent to terminal dreamland. If I was them I would not leave Israel

Don't forget that the honey pot that entrapped Vanunu, a certain Cheryl Bentov (nee' Henin) is an American who now resides in Orlando, Florida, with a nice fat MOSSAD retirement. Allegedly this is her home:

http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/cheryl-ben-tovs-house/view/?service=1

[RoyB]

I wonder if this Mossad hit will have an effect on UK passport holders? Lets say every passport holder has to wait 2 extra minutes while some customs official looks up and down at them typing something every time they travel to the middle east.

How many Brits arrive in the middle east each day? This could add up to a lot of time, not to mention discomfort of being at the mercy of a customs officials vims in an undemocratic country.

If I were a Brit I'd demand a hell of a lot more than the expulsion of the Mossad station chief, Id demand his head on a platter.

But Brits are such cool characters with their stiff upper lips. Us Norwegians on the other hand can sometimes get a bit hot headed.
Exaggerating a bit, don't you think?
Thank god the Brits aren't as hot headed as Norwegians are tho.

[Fat Lazy American]

... has to wait 2 extra minutes while some customs official looks up and down at them typing something every time they travel to the middle east.
... Id demand his head on a platter.



Uhh ... OK.

[ting]

Exaggerating a bit, don't you think?
Thank god the Brits aren't as hot headed as Norwegians are tho.


Uhh ... OK.

Sorry, I smelled blood there for a moment. p-) Lets just say I would be very unhappy about this new situation.

[GB_FXST]

I wonder if this Mossad hit will have an effect on UK passport holders? Lets say every passport holder has to wait 2 extra minutes while some customs official looks up and down at them typing something every time they travel to the middle east.

How many Brits arrive in the middle east each day? This could add up to a lot of time, not to mention discomfort of being at the mercy of a customs officials vims in an undemocratic country.

If I were a Brit I'd demand a hell of a lot more than the expulsion of the Mossad station chief, Id demand his head on a platter.

But Brits are such cool characters with their stiff upper lips. Us Norwegians on the other hand can sometimes get a bit hot headed.

I wonder if Mossad did this?

But, don't let that unknown change your preconceived notions about Israel and your demand for sanctions against Israel.

[Estopped]

Your above comment would have some meaning IF the British Intelligence Services were above using the same techniques.

No it wouldn't.

This is a simple matter of Israel abusing the trust of an ally. If say China were to spy on the UK would it make any difference that we try to spy on them. The answer is No. What Israel did was wrong and it seems that only now is Israel learning that there are consequences for its actions.

[ting]

I wonder if Mossad did this?

But, don't let that unknown change your preconceived notions about Israel and your demand for sanctions against Israel.

Yes Yes he committed suicide by strangling himself with a tennis racket. He had come to see his misdeeds in a new light, and could not handle his guilty consciousness anymore. Those poor tourists who happened to be using stolen/copied passports from dual national Israelis were just there on a tennis convention for anonymous tennis players who feel a need to travel on forged documents. (They are a marginalized part of society after all.)

[coltfan111]

If you **** up an operation like that , then you have to pay the price of a slap on the wrist. I think it is a little naive to truly believe Mossad didn't have a part in this,

[Kant]

As an Australian, I'm just glad that someone finally had the manners to use one of our passports for some International subterfuge, it was just getting embarassing.
A bit of an over reaction by Mr. Millibrand in my humble opinion.

[GB_FXST]

Yes Yes he committed suicide by strangling himself with a tennis racket. He had come to see his misdeeds in a new light, and could not handle his guilty consciousness anymore. Those poor tourists who happened to be using stolen/copied passports from dual national Israelis were just there on a tennis convention for anonymous tennis players who feel a need to travel on forged documents. (They are a marginalized part of society after all.)

The point is that no one can say with legal certainty that Mossad is responsible for the death of Mabhouh. So, you and others are a bit quick to condone action against Israel



If you **** up an operation like that , then you have to pay the price of a slap on the wrist. I think it is a little naive to truly believe Mossad didn't have a part in this,

What I, or anyone else, believes regarding Mossad's involvement is irrelevant to the question of whether or not there is any legal proof of Mossad's responsibility.

[the_Wicked]

Yes Yes he committed suicide by strangling himself with a tennis racket. He had come to see his misdeeds in a new light, and could not handle his guilty consciousness anymore. Those poor tourists who happened to be using stolen/copied passports from dual national Israelis were just there on a tennis convention for anonymous tennis players who feel a need to travel on forged documents. (They are a marginalized part of society after all.)

Yes that's exactly what we're suggesting, as can be plainly seen in many posts in this topic as well as the thread about the killing itself. It's not like anyone else might have been interested in assassinating him, right? What a ridiculous thought, heh.

[dttk0009]

What are the realistic long term effects of this action? It may have temporarily soured relations between the two countries but I believe in the long run this will have no real impact.

[kamaz]

this operation was by any measure a success, no civilians were killed, a Hamas weapons procurement contact with Iran was killed inside a hotel room, no agents were caught. One less terrorist scumbag in this world.

The British got into a political/diplomatic hissy fit over the use of Israeli/UK citizens' passports. Big deal.

Western intel agencies need to take notes on how to execute assassinations against Islamic terrorists. Instead, we have 100% reliance on drone strikes, which cause hundreds of civilian casualties, as seen in Af-Pak border strikes that we have occuring on daily basis.

the UK labour government knows full well why these passports were used, and knows perfectly well that their assertion that UK citizens are now at risk are total BS. They could have handled it by telling the Israeli foreign office of their displeasure over this tactic and it would send a comprehensive message.

instead they go out and publicly try to humiliate israelis by expelling their diplomat, while at the same time claiming that they have no evidence linking Israeli govt to the hit. Its blatantly obvious that this was a purely political ploy to garner Muslim votes ahead of an election, which Labour has a good chance of losing.

no one is saying that forging foreign passports is 'right' or acceptable according to international law. But UK government knows why and how their passports were used, not for drug smuggling or counterfeiting or other garbage, but to eliminate an enemy of both Israel,, US and UK, a Hamas weapons dealer who works with Iran. So spare me the indignation over international law and diplomatic procedures, everyone knows what this game is about.

[Fat Lazy American]

Western intel agencies need to take notes on how to execute assassinations against Islamic terrorists. Instead, we have 100% reliance on drone strikes, which cause hundreds of civilian casualties, as seen in Af-Pak border strikes that we have occuring on daily basis.


Let's be fair. Most of the terrorists who are targeting the U.S. aren't found in areas easily accessible to outsiders. The fact that (Arab and at times European) countries with luxury hotels that cater to foreign tourists are perfectly happily harboring terrorists that target and kill Israelis but too frightened to harbor terrorists that kill Americans or Europeans occasionally makes the job easier for Israel.

[Eoin666]

this operation was by any measure a success, no civilians were killed, a Hamas weapons procurement contact with Iran was killed inside a hotel room, no agents were caught. One less terrorist scumbag in this world.

The British got into a political/diplomatic hissy fit over the use of Israeli/UK citizens' passports. Big deal.

Western intel agencies need to take notes on how to execute assassinations against Islamic terrorists. Instead, we have 100% reliance on drone strikes, which cause hundreds of civilian casualties, as seen in Af-Pak border strikes that we have occuring on daily basis.

the UK labour government knows full well why these passports were used, and knows perfectly well that their assertion that UK citizens are now at risk are total BS. They could have handled it by telling the Israeli foreign office of their displeasure over this tactic and it would send a comprehensive message.

instead they go out and publicly try to humiliate israelis by expelling their diplomat, while at the same time claiming that they have no evidence linking Israeli govt to the hit. Its blatantly obvious that this was a purely political ploy to garner Muslim votes ahead of an election, which Labour has a good chance of losing.

no one is saying that forging foreign passports is 'right' or acceptable according to international law. But UK government knows why and how their passports were used, not for drug smuggling or counterfeiting or other garbage, but to eliminate an enemy of both Israel,, US and UK, a Hamas weapons dealer who works with Iran. So spare me the indignation over international law and diplomatic procedures, everyone knows what this game is about.

Good post, but IF you're going to fake some passports/identities why choose a so called 'friend' and drop them in the crapper. I'm pretty sure Israeli agents can pass themselves off as arabs or many are arab, so why not fabricate some neighbouring arab passports, then easy to deny, no later consequences to answer to.

[ting]

The point is that no one can say with legal certainty that Mossad is responsible for the death of Mabhouh. So, you and others are a bit quick to condone action against Israel




What I, or anyone else, believes regarding Mossad's involvement is irrelevant to the question of whether or not there is any legal proof of Mossad's responsibility.

Yea I got your initial point and I find it sweet. You can go on and say that Mossad did not do this as much as you like. The UK government think otherwise. Israel will not be dragged before a jury of it's equals, this is not a court of law. Rules of evidence are not relevant.

However I have taken note of your concern for legal certainty. Perhaps I will remind you of it at a later date.


Yes that's exactly what we're suggesting, as can be plainly seen in many posts in this topic as well as the thread about the killing itself. It's not like anyone else might have been interested in assassinating him, right? What a ridiculous thought, heh.

Yep a ridiculous thought.

[GB_FXST]

Yea I got your initial point and I find it sweet. You can go on and say that Mossad did not do this as much as you like. The UK government think otherwise. Israel will not be dragged before a jury of it's equals, this is not a court of law. Rules of evidence are not relevant.

However I have taken note of your concern for legal certainty. Perhaps I will remind you of it at a later date.

... snip ...



A double-edged sword. Perhaps I too will remind you of your lack of concern for legal process and standards.

[RoyB]

What Israel did was wrong and it seems that only now is Israel learning that there are consequences for its actions.
Not necessarily.
Apparently Thatcher did the same thing when the Mossad was caught in a similar passport blunder. I bet that in about 5 to 7 years we will have another case like this where our majesty passports will be involved somehow.p-)

[Estopped]

Hopefully this time there is a joint european action that deters such abuses of our majesty's passports. And given the way things are going for Israel on the political front every opportunity should be taken to drive home that particular message. They need to realise who the big fish are in the pond.

[kahn267]

Exactly

They know what they did was wrong. And naturally we should make them aware of the consequences (which probably won't be much). But cumulatively these sorts of actions are remembered when Israel is in the firing line on the political front.


What makes you so sure that they didn't allow it anyway? You dont know what goes on behind the scene... For all you know MI6 could have given the tip off to the Mossad. If anything their little "outrage" is just to pay lip service to the Arabs and detatch themselves from the situation and dispel any accusations that they were involved. Need to keep certain people happy in Londonistan to quell any riots and other anti-social acts

[kahn267]

this operation was by any measure a success, no civilians were killed, a Hamas weapons procurement contact with Iran was killed inside a hotel room, no agents were caught. One less terrorist scumbag in this world.

The British got into a political/diplomatic hissy fit over the use of Israeli/UK citizens' passports. Big deal.

Western intel agencies need to take notes on how to execute assassinations against Islamic terrorists. Instead, we have 100% reliance on drone strikes, which cause hundreds of civilian casualties, as seen in Af-Pak border strikes that we have occuring on daily basis.

the UK labour government knows full well why these passports were used, and knows perfectly well that their assertion that UK citizens are now at risk are total BS. They could have handled it by telling the Israeli foreign office of their displeasure over this tactic and it would send a comprehensive message.

instead they go out and publicly try to humiliate israelis by expelling their diplomat, while at the same time claiming that they have no evidence linking Israeli govt to the hit. Its blatantly obvious that this was a purely political ploy to garner Muslim votes ahead of an election, which Labour has a good chance of losing.

no one is saying that forging foreign passports is 'right' or acceptable according to international law. But UK government knows why and how their passports were used, not for drug smuggling or counterfeiting or other garbage, but to eliminate an enemy of both Israel,, US and UK, a Hamas weapons dealer who works with Iran. So spare me the indignation over international law and diplomatic procedures, everyone knows what this game is about.

I like the way you think ... finally someone who says things how it is

[CMNot]

Let's clear one thing up from the offset; NONE of us know what SIS, CIA etc. ad infinum do vis-a-vis terrorists on foreign soil. To state anything else is just bull****.

The only reason this has surfaced is because - if this was an Israeli hit - it was such a cluster ****. Cloned passports, CCTV...its like the ROFLcopter just took out a terrorist. Notice how distinct the difference is between this and, say, the Litvinenko assassination. The Russians managed to get a controlled nuclear substance through customs (in what must have been the most un-bag looking Diplomatic bag :lol:), through London (which has more CCTV coverage than anywhere else on earth), take down a target and exfil without being caught on tape in 80s tennis gear. Nor without the amateur hour cloning of a living persons passport. If the Israelis are struggling, there are several dozen bedsits in East London that knock out very convincing fake passports, so I hear.

All in conjunction with the state notion that all Israelis are ambassadors for their homeland abroad. It's like How To Win Friends and Influence People. In inverse.

[kamaz]

Let's clear one thing up from the offset; NONE of us know what SIS, CIA etc. ad infinum do vis-a-vis terrorists on foreign soil. To state anything else is just bull****.

The only reason this has surfaced is because - if this was an Israeli hit - it was such a cluster ****. Cloned passports, CCTV...its like the ROFLcopter just took out a terrorist. Notice how distinct the difference is between this and, say, the Litvinenko assassination. The Russians managed to get a controlled nuclear substance through customs (in what must have been the most un-bag looking Diplomatic bag :lol:), through London (which has more CCTV coverage than anywhere else on earth), take down a target and exfil without being caught on tape in 80s tennis gear. Nor without the amateur hour cloning of a living persons passport. If the Israelis are struggling, there are several dozen bedsits in East London that knock out very convincing fake passports, so I hear.

All in conjunction with the state notion that all Israelis are ambassadors for their homeland abroad. It's like How To Win Friends and Influence People. In inverse.

I dont understand the difference between the 2 hits. Litvinenko survived long enough to point out his assassins, who were traced back to Russia, UK withdrew their diplomats. With that, FSB agents had to smuggle in a deadly substance, a messy procedure that can kill bystanders if not handled properly, and it wasnt enough to kill the target who lived for weeks after teh exposure. And they did get caught on camera as well btw,

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/europe/article1264934.ece

if anything the Dubai hit is a much better measure of success, no agents were caught, nor traced to Israel. The fake passports could have been forged by anyone with the equipment. The CCTV did not reveal any specific identity of any individual. The target was dead within minutes. All everyone has are accusations but zero concrete proof of an Israeli involvement. And again, no external risk to any civilians. A clean, silent hit.

[Sumadinac]

The British are already in a "Friend of America, so a Friend of Israel" catagory amongst the Islamic Fundamentalists.

Honestly, I don't have the feeling that UK and Israel are good friends as US and Israel can be. Both the UK gvt and population seems pretty hostile to israel in a general way. It don't made israel and the UK as hostile countries, they have relations indeed, but the term "friends" seems inapropriated imo.

The times when the UK was an important military supplier of israel seems to be definitely over.

[Breach]

Honestly, I don't have the feeling that UK and Israel are good friends as US and Israel can be. Both the UK gvt and population seems pretty hostile to israel in a general way. It don't made israel and the UK as hostile countries, they have relations indeed, but the term "friends" seems inapropriated imo.

The times when the UK was an important military supplier of israel seems to be definitely over.

It's not so much hostile feeling towards Isreal for the majority,it's just we generally just don't give a toss what happens over there.

[Palmach]

It's not so much hostile feeling towards Isreal for the majority,it's just we generally just don't give a toss what happens over there.

Really? It seems that the UK government and the press gave a great deal of toss to what is going on in Israel.

Let review:
Weapons embargo - check
Hostile, boderline antisemitic, press - check
Consistant anti-Israel government policy - check
Hostile legislative body - check
I haven't seen reliable polls on the views help by the population in general, but something tells me it falls into the pattern.

UK and Israel are not friends or allies. In fact the animocity is quite evident.

[Palmach]

The times when the UK was an important military supplier of israel seems to be definitely over.

The UK was never an important military supplier to Israel.

[Sumadinac]

The UK was never an important military supplier to Israel.

My bad, I believe you very well, I only have the centurion in memory.

[Kaplanr]

You mean those Meteors, Vicker's submarines and Centurions came from Santa's workshop?

They may not have been an important supplier during the last generation, but it's wrong as a blanket statement. They're also a substantial indirect supplier - Martin-Baker ejection seats for example.

[ting]

A double-edged sword. Perhaps I too will remind you of your lack of concern for legal process and standards.

This is getting spooky.p-)

[kamaz]

Really? It seems that the UK government and the press gave a great deal of toss to what is going on in Israel.

Let review:
Weapons embargo - check
Hostile, boderline antisemitic, press - check
Consistant anti-Israel government policy - check
Hostile legislative body - check
I haven't seen reliable polls on the views help by the population in general, but something tells me it falls into the pattern.

UK and Israel are not friends or allies. In fact the animocity is quite evident.

dont forget the recent UK teachers union boycott against Israeli universities. I think their Labor union did the same also.

[Sumadinac]

Really? It seems that the UK government and the press gave a great deal of toss to what is going on in Israel.

Let review:
Weapons embargo - check
Hostile, boderline antisemitic, press - check
Consistant anti-Israel government policy - check
Hostile legislative body - check
I haven't seen reliable polls on the views help by the population in general, but something tells me it falls into the pattern.

UK and Israel are not friends or allies. In fact the animocity is quite evident.

100% agree, also, the possibility that they have still not forgotten the period of confrontation with groups like the Irgun did not seem to exclude.

Relating to the history, Israel's independance does not appear to have been a part of the desire of the UK.

[IDF_TANKER]

It's not so much hostile feeling towards Isreal for the majority,it's just we generally just don't give a toss what happens over there.

I'd very much like to think you were right, however the constant obsession of your media with Israeli issues leaves quite an opposite impression.

[Old_Boy_Steve]

Dear Mossad et al,

Don't smile in passport photos, it's just piss poor drills.

Regards,
D. Miliband.

[CMNot]

Relating to the history, Israel's independance does not appear to have been a part of the desire of the UK.

And how, Dear Scholar, did you come to that pinnacle of academic excellence?

To Israelis: the Guardian/Economist will paint an anti-Israeli picture. If you read the Times or FT, you would have a different view of how the British press see Israel. The majority of the British public is torn between tree-hugging manlove and pragmatic realism. It's up to individuals if they want to paint 65m+ people with one brush.

[Palmach]

To Israelis: the Guardian/Economist will paint an anti-Israeli picture.

As well as The Independent, The New Statesman, The Scotsman, etc.


If you read the Times or FT, you would have a different view of how the British press see Israel.

Hmm: ".. the FT has been broadly criticized as having a strong anti-Israel editorial policy and views Israel as primarily responsible for the perpetuation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, while downplaying other factors such as Palestinian terrorism. "
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-spine/the-financial-times-and-the-satanization-israel
http://www.justjournalism.com/special-reports/download/Financial_Times_2009_A_year_of_Middle_East_editorials.pdf

[Octavariable]

If you happened to check Sky News site in the following week, they averaged about 2 Israel related items per day.
If that's not obsession, then I don't know what is.

[Palmach]

You mean those Meteors, Vicker's submarines and Centurions came from Santa's workshop?

They may not have been an important supplier during the last generation, but it's wrong as a blanket statement. They're also a substantial indirect supplier - Martin-Baker ejection seats for example.

Well, all Israeli subs - including the S and T class - were from GB aside from the Dolphins. But that is the only weapons system for which they were the only or the primary supplier. That and the first 7 years of Centurion sales. It can hardly be compared to the relationship between Israel and France or Israel and the US.

Yes, the UK was an important supplier in the past, but its been 40 years since then.

[Old_Boy_Steve]

If you happened to check Sky News site in the following week, they averaged about 2 Israel related items per day.
If that's not obsession, then I don't know what is.

I fail to see how that can be classed as obsession. Israel is, for whatever reason, in the news a lot. If you want to talk of obsession then check 'the news' for articles relating to David sodding Beckham and get back to me.

[Kaplanr]

Absolutely true, but that's obviously not the same as stating "...was never an important..." I have no problem pillorying a state or person when they deserve it, but I want the argument and the facts that support them to stand on their own. Right after thanking the UK for the Centurions, I can then just as easily and happily bring up the Chieftain, co-design and (as the French would say,) Perfidious Albion.


Well, all Israeli subs - including the S and T class - were from GB aside from the Dolphins. But that is the only weapons system for which they were the only or the primary supplier. That and the first 7 years of Centurion sales. It can hardly be compared to the relationship between Israel and France or Israel and the US.

Yes, the UK was an important supplier in the past, but its been 40 years since then.