Navy: Aircraft Carrier, Small Boat Collide in Gulf

[J-10]

Navy: Ship, Small Boat Collide in Gulf
Friday July 23, 2004 11:16 AM

MANAMA, Bahrain (AP) - The USS John F. Kennedy aircraft carrier collided with a dhow in the Arabian Gulf while running night flights in support of U.S. operations in Iraq, the Navy said Friday. The crew of the small boat was missing.

The Navy said none of its sailors were hurt and described the Thursday night collision as an accident. A nearby British warship, the Somerset, sent teams to search for the dhow's crew but had found nothing so far, the Navy said in a statement from its 5th Fleet headquarters in Bahrain.

Fleet spokesman Cmdr. James Graybeal said via telephone that ``there is nothing to indicate that this is anything more than a maritime accident.''

In October 2000, suicide attackers detonated explosives on a small boat they had brought alongside the USS Cole destroyer as it refueled in the Yemeni port of Aden. Seventeen U.S. sailors were killed.

A July 1 U.S. State Department advisory cautioned Americans against traveling to Bahrain and advised those who live there to leave. The Pentagon followed by withdrawing service members' families and nonessential personnel from Bahrain.

The Kennedy is based in Mayport, Fla.
Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4342628,00.html)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

From what I've been able to google, a "dhow" is a pretty small POS. What's a craft that small doing out where the fleet is operating? And how could they not notice a bloody great carrier, along with all it's escort ships, jets and helos? Either they were asleep, or meant to hit the Kennedy.

[ShotOver]

Check it for explosives?
Thought radar would of picked that thing up a mile away, strange.

[obd]

Yes, this is a strange incident....No doubt somebody is getting thier asses chewed out about it too!!.....

After what happened to the USS Cole, I was under the impression that crews were assigned to scout with night vision to make sure nothing like a small dhow with explosives could sneek in under the radar and collide with the carrier.....

I would be very interested to find out if that dhow had explosives......More than 99% likely it was just an accident as I would be extremely impressed if they could find a carrier out in the open water like that......and at night too.........

Nevertheless, it has to be sobering for the crew and for the Navy......The USS Cole barely survived the bombing...granted, the aricraft carrier is much larger of a vessel but they certainly can be sunk with a powerful enough explosive and at the very least many men and women could have been killed and many millions worth of damage to a major national assest could have occured.......

As I said, somebody is getting thier asses chewed out right now...

[obd]

oh yeah, and dhows are most often powered by sail with a small outboard motor on the back....if it even has that at all.......So for them to have collided on purpose with the aircraft carrier which travels at full speed and into the wind during operations with aircraft to help them get off the deck.........well if they were AQ on that dhow and they really did manage to collide with the carrier, than those bastards have gotta be the damn best of luckiest (or unluckiest in this case hehehehe) sailors on the planet.....

[Herrmannek]

oh yeah, and dhows are most often powered by sail with a small outboard motor on the back....if it even has that at all.......So for them to have collided on purpose with the aircraft carrier which travels at full speed and into the wind during operations with aircraft to help them get off the deck.........well if they were AQ on that dhow and they really did manage to collide with the carrier, than those bastards have gotta be the damn best of luckiest (or unluckiest in this case hehehehe) sailors on the planet.....

If they were under sails, US Navy ****ed they job once again :), as sail has always green light over motorboat...

[J-10]

http://www.wildland.com/wildnews/images/Dhow_sail.jpg
Dhow (Arab design wooden sailboat)

[obd]

hehe, probably just an accident......but still a sobering one......You can bet they have doubled the watch on that carrier heheh...probably tripled the watch....Thats gotta be embarrasing for the captain...

"yeah, I was just cruising along on my nuclear powered speed with probably over $ 1 billion worth of equipment and men and women onboard when we got kamikazeed by an Arab dhow"...........ah man that would make a good story....

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Do they issue navagation warnings for ships? I know that aircraft have NOTAMS - they basically give notice when there are military ops in an area - warning people to stay away.

[Tane Angle]

Wow, I know that dhows are tough to pick up on radar, but that's pretty bad that it was able to get to the carriers, by accident or not.

[abncougar]

love your avatar j-10, a real hottie

[aixina]

Wow, I know that dhows are tough to pick up on radar.

thats why i have a radar reflector in mi sail RO-330, there isn't much metal aboard to be picked by a ferry radar, but i thought military radars were much better, and another thing how the hell it went through the screening destroyers without being shot to pieces? if i'm not wrong those giants never go on their own.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I have been in this situation before "large naval vessel bearing down at high speed on a small fishing boat and the naval vessel despite being equipped with state of the art radar does is not aware of your existence".
Sail boats and fishing vessels can often have restricted manoeuvrability.

[gbos]

I knew that in exercises subs managed to penetrate and approach ACs but this :cantbeli:
Poor fishermen.

[Durandal]

If there was surface clutter, chop, spray, chances are they missed it. Not difficult with a small boat that has a low profile.

The d'how was at fault though. Small ship makes way for the large one. Regardless of how un-manueverable it was, I guarantee it could maneuver quicker than the carrier.

As far as warnings go...come on, the chances of this dude having a radio much less a radar is unlikely. Low tech poor people trying to eek out a living.

It was their fault and it sucks it happened.

I am curious as to see what is said about the lookouts for visual warning. It should have never gotten that close simply because of previous experiences, like the U.S.S. Cole.

[Herrmannek]

The d'how was at fault though. Small ship makes way for the large one. Regardless of how un-manueverable it was, I guarantee it could maneuver quicker than the carrier.

AFAIK size doesn't mater... sail ships because of lack of manouverability has always prority before motor propeled ships...

[Tane Angle]

This is night time, so it's possible that the visual lookouts couldn't see it, though NVGs should have let them. To be honest, it's possible that neither one saw the other. The nights out on the Persian Gulf are just black, and if the carrier was running with minimal lights, and if the dhow was directly in front of the carrier, it's possible that the dhow knew it was lost in the middle of the fleet but couldn't tell where the ships were exactly. And yes, one wonders why even the destroyer screen missed the dhow.

Regarding agility, aircraft carriers aren't cigarrette boats; everyone saw the movie "Titanic?" Remember how the ship couldn't avoid the iceberg? Granted, the Titanic's rudder was supposedly too small, but nonethe less, it's almost impossible to dodge something so small so quickly (if the crew had even seen the dhow).

Rest in peace to the crew, if they are indeed deceased.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Durandal]

AFAIK size doesn't mater... sail ships because of lack of manouverability has always prority before motor propeled ships...

Yeah, your right...don't ask me why I said that. I was thinking of Aviation, not Navigation.

Done enough fishing to know a little about maritime law. :oops:

[Flagg]

Yeah....I hope that dhow crew made it.......the danger of being in a small boat in close proximity to such a large ship is quite high.

On a side note......I could have sworn I read about a computer simulated exercise without troops prior to GWII where the opposition used a large number of motorized dhows to surge against a carrier group...and the carrier group lost.

I thought that was one of the reasons why we're seeing so many photos of gimpie and .50 cal armed sailors to prevent such things from happening

[Herrmannek]

AFAIK size doesn't mater... sail ships because of lack of manouverability has always prority before motor propeled ships...

Yeah, your right...don't ask me why I said that. I was thinking of Aviation, not Navigation.

Done enough fishing to know a little about maritime law. :oops:

Other thing is spoting such small boat at night. I'm not licensed sailor and my knowledge is as little as much gives lake day sailing under patented mates and few books read long time ago, so I don't know regulations about demanded night signal equipment like lights, radio beacaons etc... If those fishers didn't followed that rules this could be their guilt also....

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The d'how was at fault though. Small ship makes way for the large one.
This is not in the IMO rules of the road, although a small vessel would have to give way to a larger vessel if such vessel was constrained by its draught or operations (the larger vessel would have to display appropriate signals though). Its worth bearing in mind that vessels not constrained by either draught or operations must at all times if practicable give way to vessels engaged in fishing operations this rule applies to naval vessels as well.

[BlackRain]

US NAVAL VESSEL PROTECTION ZONES

These zones are designed to prevent attacks against our navy by placing restrictions on how closely you may come to a naval vessel.

The requirements are:

You may not approach within 100 yards of any U.S. naval vessel. Sometimes this is an impossible thing to accomplish.

If you need to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel in order to ensure a safe passage in accordance with the Navigation Rules, you must contact the U.S. naval vessel or the Coast Guard escort vessel on your VHF radio. (Channel 16)

You must operate at minimum speed within 500 yards of any U.S. naval vessel. You must proceed as directed by the vessels' commanding officer, or the official patrol.

Violations of the Naval Vessel Protection Zone are a felony offense, punishable by up to 6 years in prison and/or up to $250,000 in fines.

And don't forget, both the Navy and the Coast Guard are authorized to use deadly force to protect themselves...

YOUR ROLE IN KEEPING OUR WATERWAYS SAFE AND SECURE

Keep your distance from all military, cruise line, or commercial shipping.

In addition to the Naval Security Zone requirements, you may also not operate your vessel near certain commercial vessels. It's best just to avoid all commercial vessels if possible.

Observe and avoid all security zones and commercial port operations. Areas that have a large marine facilities including military, commercial/cruise, or petroleum facilities should be avoided.

There are also restrictions near most dams, power plants and other facilities located near water.

Don't stop or anchor beneath bridges or in shipping channels. If you do, you can expect to be asked to move and/or be boarded by law enforcement officials.Keep a sharp eye out for things that are out of the ordinary.

You are asked to report all activities that seem suspicious to the local authorities, the Coast Guard, or the port authority.

Do not approach or challenge those acting in a suspicious manner.

Wearing your life jacket, and operating in accordance with the Rules of the Road and other boating regulations will ease the burden on the Coast Guard and other law enforcement personnel.

[cut]

US NAVAL VESSEL PROTECTION ZONES

These zones are designed to prevent attacks against our navy by placing restrictions on how closely you may come to a naval vessel.

The requirements are:

You may not approach within 100 yards of any U.S. naval vessel. Sometimes this is an impossible thing to accomplish.

If you need to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel in order to ensure a safe passage in accordance with the Navigation Rules, you must contact the U.S. naval vessel or the Coast Guard escort vessel on your VHF radio. (Channel 16)

You must operate at minimum speed within 500 yards of any U.S. naval vessel. You must proceed as directed by the vessels' commanding officer, or the official patrol.

Violations of the Naval Vessel Protection Zone are a felony offense, punishable by up to 6 years in prison and/or up to $250,000 in fines.

And don't forget, both the Navy and the Coast Guard are authorized to use deadly force to protect themselves...

YOUR ROLE IN KEEPING OUR WATERWAYS SAFE AND SECURE

Keep your distance from all military, cruise line, or commercial shipping.

In addition to the Naval Security Zone requirements, you may also not operate your vessel near certain commercial vessels. It's best just to avoid all commercial vessels if possible.

Observe and avoid all security zones and commercial port operations. Areas that have a large marine facilities including military, commercial/cruise, or petroleum facilities should be avoided.

There are also restrictions near most dams, power plants and other facilities located near water.

Don't stop or anchor beneath bridges or in shipping channels. If you do, you can expect to be asked to move and/or be boarded by law enforcement officials.Keep a sharp eye out for things that are out of the ordinary.

You are asked to report all activities that seem suspicious to the local authorities, the Coast Guard, or the port authority.

Do not approach or challenge those acting in a suspicious manner.

Wearing your life jacket, and operating in accordance with the Rules of the Road and other boating regulations will ease the burden on the Coast Guard and other law enforcement personnel.

I doubt the rules are the same in Iraq, do dhows even have radios?

[Pooga]

On a side note......I could have sworn I read about a computer simulated exercise without troops prior to GWII where the opposition used a large number of motorized dhows to surge against a carrier group...and the carrier group lost.

Yeah, naval wargames. The organizers, or whatevah brought this Marine general out of retirement. It was supposed to be US vs. Israel. The Marine guy commanded the "Isaeli" Navy, and used zodiacs and other small small small vessels to destroy I don't know how many US Navy ships. The scary, I mean scare-your-pants-and-socks off scary thing was that the organizers restarted the wargames and made it a scripted thing.

[usa320]

Disturbing...

Had i been on guard and noticed a "dhow" getting that close to the ship i would have blown it in half...

after USS Cole we shouldnt let boats of anykind anywhere near our ships.

[Tane Angle]

In answer to the questions, it's pretty probable that the dhow had no lights, no radio, no radar, etc.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

US NAVAL VESSEL PROTECTION ZONES

These zones are designed to prevent attacks against our navy by placing restrictions on how closely you may come to a naval vessel.

The requirements are:

You may not approach within 100 yards of any U.S. naval vessel. Sometimes this is an impossible thing to accomplish.

If you need to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel in order to ensure a safe passage in accordance with the Navigation Rules, you must contact the U.S. naval vessel or the Coast Guard escort vessel on your VHF radio. (Channel 16)

You must operate at minimum speed within 500 yards of any U.S. naval vessel. You must proceed as directed by the vessels' commanding officer, or the official patrol.

Violations of the Naval Vessel Protection Zone are a felony offense, punishable by up to 6 years in prison and/or up to $250,000 in fines.

And don't forget, both the Navy and the Coast Guard are authorized to use deadly force to protect themselves...

YOUR ROLE IN KEEPING OUR WATERWAYS SAFE AND SECURE

Keep your distance from all military, cruise line, or commercial shipping.

In addition to the Naval Security Zone requirements, you may also not operate your vessel near certain commercial vessels. It's best just to avoid all commercial vessels if possible.

Observe and avoid all security zones and commercial port operations. Areas that have a large marine facilities including military, commercial/cruise, or petroleum facilities should be avoided.

There are also restrictions near most dams, power plants and other facilities located near water.

Don't stop or anchor beneath bridges or in shipping channels. If you do, you can expect to be asked to move and/or be boarded by law enforcement officials.Keep a sharp eye out for things that are out of the ordinary.

You are asked to report all activities that seem suspicious to the local authorities, the Coast Guard, or the port authority.

Do not approach or challenge those acting in a suspicious manner.

Wearing your life jacket, and operating in accordance with the Rules of the Road and other boating regulations will ease the burden on the Coast Guard and other law enforcement personnel.
These guidelines make sense but they are only applicable in the the US or US naval bases abroad not however on the high seas.

[BlackRain]

UPDATE!

Carrier’s run-in with dhow raises red flags

Officials seek answers after ship struck, sank small boat

BY MATTHEW DOLAN THE VIRGINIAN-PILOT

How could a small boat designed for fishing in the Persian Gulf get so close to a multibilliondollar American carrier equipped with state-ofthe-art radar and armed with its own air force?

That’s the question Navy investigators are still asking after the carrier John F. Kennedy struck and sank the mysterious boat in the Persian Gulf on July 22.

No survivors or remains from the small boat, known as a dhow, have been recovered. The crew of the Mayport, Fla.-based carrier and its Virginia Beach-based air wing did not sustain any injuries from the collision, Navy officials said. No structural dam age to the carrier was

reported.

But the little noticed accident, now under review by an admiral sent from the Pentagon, could raise serious questions about the Navy’s ability to protect its own ships. Small suicide boats have already attacked larger Navy ships or their crews in the region on at least two occasions in recent years.

In 2000, a bomb-laden skiff blew a 40-by-20-foot hole in the Norfolk-based Cole while the destroyer was refueling in Yemen. The explosion killed 17 sailors and injured 42 others.

In April, three crew members from the Virginia Beach-based Firebolt died after a dhow exploded near the coastal patrol boat’s boarding team in the Persian Gulf. Other reports indicate that terrorists have attempted to strike Navy ships close to shore or while transiting maritime chokepoints such as the Straits of Gibraltar.

But a spokesman for the Navy’s 5th Fleet in Bahrain said that it was too early to speculate on the cause of the accident, much less the intentions of the dhow.

“It’s a bit premature,” Cmdr. James Graybeal said by telephone Friday. “We need to let the investigation run its course.” Other Navy officials said that they did not worry in general whether ships such as aircraft carriers were able to protect themselves adequately.

“There is an ongoing investigation, but I don’t have any overall concerns about ship self-defense,” said Rear Adm. John D. Stufflebeem, assistant deputy chief of naval operations who previously led the Harry S. Truman carrier strike group.

But Paul K. Van Riper proved recently that the “4½ acres of American floating sovereignty,” as deployed aircraft carriers are sometimes called, are not completely impenetrable.

Van Riper, a retired Marine Corps lieutenant general, commanded an enemy force “Red Team” during the $250 million war game known as Millennium Challenge in 2002. He was able to sink an American carrier using a salvo of surface-to-surface missiles, but his overall naval strategy also employed swarming small boats.

“The Navy took that part seriously,” he said in an interview this week.

Traditionally, carriers post sailors standing watch 24 hours a day, seven days a week, Graybeal said. Flattops are also protected by an air wing packed with surveillance aircraft and usually ringed by an armada of destroyers, cruisers and other ships.

The Kennedy had only been in the gulf for 12 days when it struck the dhow at about 10:20 p.m. during night flight operations.

Evidently, someone on the Kennedy’s crew spotted the dhow. Graybeal would only say that “it’s my understanding that the ship was maneuvering to avoid contact with the dhow.” After the sinking, the mine countermeasures ship Dextrous joined the British multi-role hydrographic and oceanographic survey vessel Echo in an effort to locate any survivors.

Navy officials said they know little about the sunken dhow. They do not know the boat’s nationality or its purpose, Graybeal said.

Although the Navy has asked for any information about the boat in neighboring countries through its embassies, no one has come forward to say where the boat came from or whether it was manned at the time.

A debris field has been located, but Graybeal said he did not have details about what it contained.

In the gulf, dhows are often made with wood and sometimes outfitted with sails. They are used for fishing, trade and transportation. But it is not uncommon for dhows to be used as smuggler’s boats, which could be why no one has come forward so far.

Rear Adm. Evan M. Chanik, who works as director of the programming division for the chief of naval operations, flew from the United States to the region to lead the investigation and report back to 5th Fleet.

Chanik formerly commanded a carrier air wing and two warships, including the Norfolk-based carrier Enterprise. He remains aboard the Kennedy, Graybeal said Friday. There was no time line for the completion of his probe.

In the meantime, operations for the Kennedy, whose air wing has dropped bombs in support of American troops fighting in Iraq, continue without change.

“There is nothing to indicate that this was anything more than a maritime accident,” Graybeal said.