UK parliamentary corruption

[Lazy Lob]

What is exasperating is the lack of checks and balances in our “democracy”. With all this sleaze and corruption and unelected sphincters running the country parliament should have been dissolved months ago. I really do (hope) think the public are fvked off. We really need a spring clean.

Labour anger? Fvck them, the whole bloody lot of them.



Labour 'anger' with ex-ministers
Three former ministers have been suspended from the Parliamentary Labour Party "for bringing it into disrepute".

Stephen Byers, Patricia Hewitt and Geoff Hoon are under investigation over their apparent willingness to help a lobbying firm in return for cash.

They were secretly filmed by the Channel 4 programme Dispatches, but have denied any wrong-doing.

Tory leader David Cameron said people were "disgusted" and Justice Secretary Jack Straw said MPs felt "anger".

The decision to suspend them was taken after Dispatches showed undercover footage of various politicians who were approached by a fictional US firm looking to hire them for lobbying work.

'No evidence'

A source told the BBC that the Commons Standards Committee had approved Mr Byers' own request for an inquiry into his actions.

Parliament's standards commissioner has also been asked to look at complaints against Mr Hoon and Ms Hewitt.

Mr Straw told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that Labour was carrying out its own investigation into the three former ministers.

He added that their suspension had "nothing" to do with their allegiance to former Prime Minister Tony Blair.

“ The fact is the last government ended with scandals like this and the current government is ending with scandals that are, frankly, worse ”
David Cameron, Conservatives
Blairite anger over their actions was "as strong, if not stronger than [among] those in the past who were on a different wing of the party".

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has dismissed Conservative calls for an inquiry into the alleged actions of officials and serving ministers.

Mr Straw said there was "not a shred of evidence, not a single scintilla of evidence" they had done anything wrong.

'Suckered'

But he said: "It appears that former cabinet ministers are putting making money ahead of meeting their constituents...

"There's anger... and incredulity about their stupidity... getting suckered by a sting like this."

Labour rules allow those who bring the party into disrepute to be punished.

Mr Hoon said Mr Brown had told him his unpaid work with Nato, on the prime minister's behalf, would now cease.

LOBBYING RULES
Sitting MPs are not banned from working for corporate clients but the practice is controversial
They must declare any payment in the register of members' interests
Any paid work taken by an ex-minister within two years of leaving office must be cleared by a panel - the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments
They are not allowed to table amendments or vote on bills in exchange for payment
They are normally banned for 12 months from becoming lobbyists in their specialist fields
Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems all say they want the rules tightened to prevent ex-ministers exploiting their contacts for private gain
Mr Cameron, speaking at his monthly press conference, said: "Anyone who watched the Dispatches programme last night could not help but be, frankly, disgusted by what they saw.

He added: "We need a proper [government] inquiry into all of this."

Chairman of the committee on standards in public life, Sir Christopher Kelly, said he had been "greatly saddened" by the Dispatches programme and "the further damage that will do to people's perception of members of Parliament".

He said rules banning paid-for advocacy in the Commons were "quite clear" and what was required was "proper enforcement and proper sanctions when misbehaviour occurs".

"In all of this what's really required is changes in behaviour, it requires a culture in which the principles of public life, selflessness, integrity and so on, are embedded in the behaviour of those who hold public office."

Three other politicians were featured in the programme - Labour MP Margaret Moran, Labour's Baroness Morgan and Conservative MP John Butterfill.

'Cab for hire'

It is understood that Mr Butterfill has referred himself to the standards commissioner and Baroness Morgan has already referred herself to the sub-committee on Lords' interests.

Ms Moran, already deselected by Labour as an election candidate following revelations over her expenses, has been suspended by the Parliamentary Labour Party.

Under Commons rules MPs can work for companies, but must declare payments and may not lobby ministers directly.

Mr Byers, a former transport secretary, was filmed saying he was like a "cab for hire" who would work for up to £5,000 a day and claimed to have saved millions of pounds for National Express, which wanted to get out of its East Coast mainline franchise.

Transport Secretary Lord Adonis told peers on Monday there was "no truth" in claims he came to "any arrangement", dismissing the comments as "pure fantasy".

Mr Byers also said he had spoken to Business Secretary Lord Mandelson about getting food labelling proposals delayed, on behalf of supermarket Tesco.

The business department, Tesco and National Express denied the claims - and Mr Byers said later he had overstated his case and had never lobbied ministers.

Lord Mandelson told the BBC had had no contact with Mr Byers about food labelling and said it was "rather grubby" that the MP had made "completely untrue, unfounded boasts... in order to get himself future business".

Former Defence Secretary Mr Hoon was filmed by Dispatches saying he wanted to make use of his international knowledge and contacts in a way that "makes money" and that he charged £3,000 a day.

Mr Hoon has said he had made clear that he would not lobby government or "attempt to sell confidential or privileged information arising from my time in government".

Ms Hewitt, a former health secretary, said she "completely rejected" the suggestion she helped obtain a key seat on a government advisory group for a client paying her £3,000 a day.

BBC political editor Nick Robinson said the three former ministers were not popular among Mr Brown's team - Mr Hoon and Ms Hewitt tried to lead a coup against his leadership in January. All three are due to stand down as MPs at the next election.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk_politics/8582093.stm

[CMNot]

As depressing as it all is, I sincerely hope the media (particularly the broadsheets) keep the pressure firmly up on Westminster. We need constitutional reform. We won't get it without a long, hard fight - and in my opinion, we are not even through the first sparring punches. A lot of powerful people have a lot of powerful vested interests to protect.

If England has to burn to exact it, then it is a price worth paying in my humble opinion. We can rebuild the city on the hill, but not under our current systems.

My only concern is the rise in popularity of the likes of the EDL, BNP, UAF et al. The only thing worse than a Liabour/Lib Dem hung parliament would be any of those ****s getting some foothold of power.

[scttgillies]

What do you expect, they're a bunch of lyin. coniveing barstewards. Fookin politicians.

[Lazy Lob]

As depressing as it all is, I sincerely hope the media (particularly the broadsheets) keep the pressure firmly up on Westminster. We need constitutional reform. We won't get it without a long, hard fight - and in my opinion, we are not even through the first sparring punches. A lot of powerful people have a lot of powerful vested interests to protect.

If England has to burn to exact it, then it is a price worth paying in my humble opinion. We can rebuild the city on the hill, but not under our current systems.

My only concern is the rise in popularity of the likes of the EDL, BNP, UAF et al. The only thing worse than a Liabour/Lib Dem hung parliament would be any of those ****s getting some foothold of power.

Well said CMN.

[JJHH]

Haha.. BUSTED!!

Don't suspend them. Set an example by a life-time ban.

[gazell]

Not even that, it's an international octopus. I'd wonder, how many countries would put their hands up for their socialist party/government not being a bunch of thieves.

[2495]

Problem was they all saw Tony Bliar getting away with it for over a decade and thought 'if the masters dipping the pot, so can we all'. needs a complete and utter clean out from top to bottom - however, with the corruption at the heart of the EU absolutely endemic, they all seem to be at it.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Not even that, it's an international octopus. I'd wonder, how many countries would put their hands up for their socialist party/government not being a bunch of thieves.To be fair I doubt I would put my hand up for the UK Conservative party either in the squeaky clean governance stakes. Would any person on here vouch for the moral and ethical standards of their elected officials whether they be left, middle or right.

[rgjbloke]

The exposure of some of the hopes of some Labour politicians to profit from their link's with the government in this way is to say the least, another slur on politics in Britain and this episode as everybody is aware is simply the latest in a long line of political scandals over the year's to hit the Labour party and parliament. I think only the political parties themselves can clean their act up. That or tighten up the law to stop this kind of stuff completely. What's the chances of either of those thing's happening. Probably zero. Don't think for one minute that a Conservative Government are going to make one iota of difference either. I clearly remember the last time they were in control, where in 18 year's of ruling this country, being a Tory became a byword for corruption, scandal and individuals refusing to resign claiming they had done nothing wrong. The only way you will ever turn politics around and put and end to all this sleaze is for the general population of the country to not run away from being involved in politics and to actually engage in the process. At the moment, they can do this stuff and get away with it. Get the general population involved in some way in monitoring them on a more continuous basis and they would be much more dis-inclined to behave like greedy robbing sods with their snout's in the trough because they would know they faced consequences for their action's. Start tossing coin's on which one you want to join gentlemen!

[Blackcatnursery]

Rotten to the core, self serving corrupt individuals. Cannot see it getting any better in the near future. Just look what good old Tony raked in last year £20m, nice gravy train for him.
Why do we actually need them as most of the legislation comes from the EU in any case.

[miguelencanarias]

Do they still have the box of snuff payed by the tax-payers? There are traditions and then there are traditions.

[Lawndart]

This sort of thing makes one understand why captive monkey's poo in their hand and throw it, the sheer sense of impotent rage and frustration! UK politics are rotten to their core. The age of MP's going to Westminster to conduct business on their constituents behalf has long passed in this country. I get the feeling these days that when people enter Parliament it's more about the second home allowances, the expenses and how one can line their own pockets once they have to depart the governmental gravy train, and not the people that voted them there.

[nemowork]

Three former ministers have been suspended from the Parliamentary Labour Party "for bringing it into disrepute".:lol:

Just a wee bit late perhaps?


Mr Byers also said he had spoken to Business Secretary Lord Mandelson about getting food labelling proposals delayed, on behalf of supermarket Tesco.
The business department, Tesco and National Express denied the claims - and Mr Byers said later he had overstated his case and had never lobbied ministers.
Lord Mandelson told the BBC had had no contact with Mr Byers about food labelling and said it was "rather grubby" that the MP had made "completely untrue, unfounded boasts... in order to get himself future business".
Does he seriously think we believe that? Mandy and dodgy business go together like brazil and rumba.

Of course if Mandy and Byers didnt have any real contact does that mean he can be done for fraud as well?


There are a lot of people round where i live who would vote for Hitler or Rose West if they had a red rosette on and even theyre getting so hacked off with this theyre thinking of voting Lib-Dem. Not Conservative yet there are some limits of course, cos they start wars and make people unemployed :roll:

[CMNot]

Why do we actually need them as most of the legislation comes from the EU in any case.

Mate, Liabour have enacted more legislation in the last 13 years than Parliament did in the 100 prior. That is ALL they do, legislate.

What interests me is the ground root swell towards decentralised Gov't. IMHO, in such a dense population, it makes utter sense. Despite the fact that it flies right into the face of ZaNu Labour, the living infestation of 'big' Gov't.

My MP, regardless of what he says or what party he is from, is fvck all use to me in London, where his voice is nothing more than one of those baying background voices at PMQs.

[Stevey1]

What I find terrifying is all this stuff in the media about narrowing polls and how Labour could end up with most seats in a Hung Parliament even with less votes. Why is Labour bouncing back despite strikes, sleaze etc? Or are the polls wrong? It's like the more bad coverage Labour gets, the higher their poll rating! The last two years have been one coup or calamity after another. Another 5 years of Brown would be a disaster. :)

[CMNot]

That's the result of socially engineering education so that everyone is daft. A lot of it is old prejudices as well, of course. Around my way for instance, the common refrain is "I'll never vote Tory, Maggie closed t'pit". The notion that we could pay someone to dig coal out of the ground in Newcastle, Australia and ship it around the world for less than the cost of paying spoon fed, teet suckling, Union backed Brits to do it never crosses their minds.

Plus chuck George Osbourne's face in the mix and you have someone about as appealing as Gordo or Mandelson. To follow the old adage, we'll get the Governance we deserve. For better or worse.

[Kant]

Getting mad at politicians for being self serving and corrupt seems to me like getting angry at night time because it's dark.
There's not much point, and it sure as hell won't do anything but make you madder.
My $0.02

[nemowork]

What I find terrifying is all this stuff in the media about narrowing polls and how Labour could end up with most seats in a Hung Parliament even with less votes. Why is Labour bouncing back despite strikes, sleaze etc? Or are the polls wrong? It's like the more bad coverage Labour gets, the higher their poll rating! The last two years have been one coup or calamity after another. Another 5 years of Brown would be a disaster. :)

1/ The bad news stories from Afghanistan have vanished since the troop surge, so they arent under as much pressure on equipment and funding.

2/ The economy is having a bit of a bump so there isnt the obvious anger any more

3/ When Labour and Brown do stuff, they screw it up and become hated. For the past few months they have done nothing of any note

4/ Its a national characteristic to build someone up and then shoot them off their pedestal . We just don't like a certain winner (ask Susanne Boyle :lol:) so all this talk of a guaranteed Tory win has made people take a long hard look at them and while Cameron is personally popular the team behind him hasnt picked up any support.

[Flagg]

I actually hope Brown gets re-elected.

I bet Cameron kind of does as well(for maybe one more term) as the UK economy, along with the Pound itself, continues to implode.

Who wants to take the reigns when the average Joe Bloggs still hope and think things are going to suddenly turn around next month?

The longer Brown is in power(Exchequer thru PM) the easier it is to accurately portray him as guilty rather than an innocent victim of circumstances.

Is the Tower still accepting new customers?

Maybe it should be reopened for official use and put on Sky Pay Per View :)

Personally, I think the UK(as well as the US and others) are still pretending(and certainly hoping) things are going to get better soon-ish.

The Kubler Ross model might be relevant here:

Denial

Anger

Bargaining

Depression

Acceptance

Since there haven't been any proper riots in the UK yet...you guys must still be stuck between Denial and Anger.

Who wants the keys to the country BEFORE you folks have even started breaking sh!t like the footy hooligans you all are at heart? :)

I'd want to takeover somewhere around Depression....then people have no fight left in them when you forcefeed them their necessary medicine.

But IF Brown won, I'd wager he attempts to pull a Blair and ejects before impact.

No offense to the Poms on the forum for taking such a hard line in things regarding Brown and the UK, but as a citizen of two countries that are the red haired step children of the UK, I feel I've got the right to comment on the sad state of affairs.

[rgjbloke]

for less than the cost of paying spoon fed, teet suckling, Union backed Brits to do it never crosses their minds.

Stop holding back. Say what you really mean! And say it to an ex miner.

[Flagg]

“What you as the City of London have done for financial services, we as a government intend to do for the economy as a whole”-
Gordon Brown speech to bankers, Mansion House June 2002.

Roughly translated, I think that means Brown freely admitted to the premeditated act of forcibly rodgering the UK in the bad hole.

What's the punishment for sodomy in the UK?



So when are you Poms going to get off your ass and show us again how to do this tricky democracy thing?

[Lazy Lob]

No offence taken Flagg. I tend to agree with your POV. I really don't think anyone can take us out of this except that the sods in power at present cannot stop spending. I was reading somewhere that state sector now accounts for more than 52% of our GDP. That is disastrous and the feckers are still shafting private enterprise. They are a dangerous lot in Westminster.

Just wait for the price of crude to go up. I think that will be an igniter for riots. Fuel at the pumps is "unexplainably" high; the government has taxed the shyte out of it and they rarely reduce taxes.

BTW I do believe that sodomy is an offence in the UK, but I may be wrong.

[CMNot]

Fuel duty is due a 2.5p rise, although the rumour is it will be deferred.

We are having a very strange recession. Quite unlike those that have gone before, in my opinion. Some areas are still in full bloom (ie, most of London) whereas others are just being shredded (around my way). Some folk are still seeing growth in their sectors (for example, my brothers firm is roaring ahead, which I suppose is to be expected when you get to handle the windup of Lehmans etc. and my girl, as a salon owner, is still largely unaffected) whilst I know plenty who have either been brought to their knees or are having to relocate to find work (plenty of my friends are tradesmen, plumbers, sparkys etc.).

Lastly, I think there is an element of pragmatism in the population as a whole. Those with jobs are seeing themselves as fortunate.

When the axe falls, I expect their to be discontent. I'm not sure it will resemble the hari-kari currently being committed by BA staff, but I think we may yet see some civil unrest. Not that that is wise, what with the reams of legislation enacted in he recent past to massively prosecute those who disobey.


Stop holding back. Say what you really mean! And say it to an ex miner.

I'm surrounded by ex-miners in my family and the better half's. Makes for interesting drunken Christmas dinner arguments. Interesting though as an ex-serviceman you should post that. The common consensus among the family that if you were born around here (NW Leics, S Derbyshire) 20-25 years ago or more, you pretty much had two paths in life; pit or forces. Perhaps my viewpoint is steeped in being a child of the post-globalised world, where employment diversity and options are (were :lol:) are unrecognisable compared to as close as one generation ago. Plus I have the benefit of hindsight. There be my olive branch p-)

[curlyboy]

What we need is someone to watch the watchers unfortunately we have these but they used to be watchers themselves so take all the baggage that goes with it, one suggestion i read was we have an independant panel not made up of civil servants or politicians but of people off the streets with the power of veto and not fall under even the PM, as the people of the country see no way out as the people in charge only look after themselves and could not care 2p about you, me or anyone else.

Also one other problem is that politicians seem to think if things work in London the same is true everywhere, for example London has great public transport which has lots of buses and you can go from A to B quite simply, where i live i have to drive 7 miles to work everyday taking about 20 minutes and if i used public transport i would need to take 4 buses and take 2 hours.

Unfortunately whoever you vote in will be as corrupt as the who ever was in last and that is why people dont vote anymore as there is no way to break the circle.

curlyboy

[Lazy Lob]

What we need is someone to watch the watchers unfortunately we have these but they used to be watchers themselves so take all the baggage that goes with it, one suggestion i read was we have an independant panel not made up of civil servants or politicians but of people off the streets with the power of veto and not fall under even the PM, as the people of the country see no way out as the people in charge only look after themselves and could not care 2p about you, me or anyone else.

Also one other problem is that politicians seem to think if things work in London the same is true everywhere, for example London has great public transport which has lots of buses and you can go from A to B quite simply, where i live i have to drive 7 miles to work everyday taking about 20 minutes and if i used public transport i would need to take 4 buses and take 2 hours.

Unfortunately whoever you vote in will be as corrupt as the who ever was in last and that is why people dont vote anymore as there is no way to break the circle.

curlyboy

Yep, as long as these neighborhood watch committees aren't manned by the chav scroungers Brown gestated.

[CMNot]

We actually have a balance to Parliament. The Lords. Which is kind of like a sick joke.

It's like...democracy, without the democracy part.

[gazell]

To be fair I doubt I would put my hand up for the UK Conservative party either in the squeaky clean governance stakes. Would any person on here vouch for the moral and ethical standards of their elected officials whether they be left, middle or right.

OK, we can get to even that level of depression easily. Looking at it that way, surely, chosing another same smelling pile of stuff from the changing bench for swap sounds rather a one party system.

Not the same in all countries though.