Shooting match windage question

[kevlar308]

I'm going to enter a shooting match with an Ishapore 2A in 7.62 NATO. It will be held at 200 yards. Previously I've used an M1 carbine at the match, but the 2A's sight has no windage adjustment, does anyone have any good tips for correcting for wind without one?
(Other than the obvious, move the sight a little to the left or right that is)

[HollywoodMarine]

Use the "dead reckoning" method by adjusting your aim by wind speed, and your previous shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_reckoning

[boone]

Pretty much boils down to watching the flags and your mirage. At 200 I'd aim -off to the outside of the scoring rings at most. Probably less. Maybe more.
Grope your way along, Grasshopper.

[dangerdan87]

At 200 yds there shouldn't be any change of windage due to wind. I am a shooting coach in the Marines and our initial zero is at 200 yds. Being I am stationed in Hawaii, theres always good gusts of wind. I haven't came across any of my shooters or myself having to make a windage call at the 200 (and we teach that you shouldn't at the 200). Also, since 7.62 projectiles are heavier than our 5.56, there's more momentum and weight that resists to wind.

[Jaeger07]

At 200 yds there shouldn't be any change of windage due to wind. I am a shooting coach in the Marines and our initial zero is at 200 yds. Being I am stationed in Hawaii, theres always good gusts of wind. I haven't came across any of my shooters or myself having to make a windage call at the 200 (and we teach that you shouldn't at the 200). Also, since 7.62 projectiles are heavier than our 5.56, there's more momentum and weight that resists to wind.

Hitting half figures and the likes this would be correct. In a shooting competition the whole point is to score inner 10s. The wind WILL affect your shot at 200y, even with a 7,62x51 NATO round. Still at 200y there is no need to use any windage adjustement. Aiming off the target is your only option. This is an art in itself. Watch the flags, you mirage and your previous hits. In my experience this is more a "feeling for"-thing than a calculations-thing (at least at 200y).

[James]

I'm going to enter a shooting match with an Ishapore 2A in 7.62 NATO. It will be held at 200 yards. Previously I've used an M1 carbine at the match, but the 2A's sight has no windage adjustment, does anyone have any good tips for correcting for wind without one?
(Other than the obvious, move the sight a little to the left or right that is)

Go to the range and practice.

[billi]

On most days wind shouldn't be a huge problem at 200 yds with that cartridge.
These people were the superstars of shooting when I was competing; a DVD from them on wind doping:
http://mentalmanagement.ipower.com/content/winning-wind
Cheers
Bill I

[HK in AK]

Go to the range and practice.


+1 to James for good advice....as always!

[kevlar308]

Thanks for your advice guys.Unfortunately, my normal range is indoors, so no practice dealing with the wind there. The match is at a private club, but they invite the public for event.s

[Dan2004]

Use the "dead reckoning" method by adjusting your aim by wind speed, and your previous shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_reckoning

Yup. Good ol' Kentucky Windage.

[mdkoh]

If you are talking .308 as in 7.62x51 you should have little if any drift of the bullet at 200 yards. I shoot high power and unless the winds are blowing ABOVE 20 mph, or you are shooting a very light bullet, the drift will be negligible. If you are shooting a 168 grain bullet I will guarantee no drift that is descernable. Go out, shoot, and have fun. If you want to try a really good round, the Hornady ammo loaded as match with the A-Max bullet is the best I have seen. CMP supplied that for the Western Games and I hated to shoot it because it was so good.

[STILLHUNTER]

kevlar308, not knowing your shooting abilities, weapon or ammo quality to start, I would have to agree with James about going to an outdoor range and practice.

However practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. If you want to learn to play jazz on an alto sax you don't ask a concert violinist. They both understand music theory but the best advise would be from a professional jazz musician who plays alto sax. Right?
If you already have mastered the basics of shooting (sight allignment, breath control, trigger control and follow through) from time and practice I would seek out those who have mastered the weapon system you are interested in using in competitions.

Safety is #1. The rifle you are planing to use is made for 7.62mm NATO ammution. DO NOT substitute .308 Winchester commercial ammo which generates a higher pressure using a thiner casing. This is simular to 5.56 NATO vs .223 in M4 style rifles. Bushmaster for example makes some rifles designated for both 5.56 and .223 and they are stamped saying so. Your Ishapore 2A was designed for the lower pressure 7.62mm NATO round with the thicker brass.

The Art of Wind Estimation. This is an art and science that can make or break you in competitions. For example a 168 grain .308 bullet at 200 yards with a 10 mph full value wind will push your shot 3 inches. At 20 mph it will push it 6 inches roughly. This would be skewed slightly by other 3rd variables such as powder/primer selection (muzz veloc), bar pressure, temp and altitude. And yes the Coriolis effect when shooting over 1,000 yards. That is what the wind can do, now reading it is another thing. Wind meters are great but are banned in most competitions. Competition shooters learn to read range flags. Snipers learn to read other things like mirage and adjusting off of previous hits as Jaeger07 suggested. Previous hits work only for military snipers where police snipers have to perform on a cold bore shot. Mirage on a sunny, hot day in the desert works great but on a cold cloudy day you may need to rely on the Observation Method: <3mph can barely be felt, 3-5mph can be felt lightly on the face, 5-6mph keeps tree leaves in motion, 8-12mph blows dust and loose papers, 12-15mph causes small trees to sway.

That was more of the science side of it. The art side can only develop with time and practice to get that "feeling for"-thing that Jaeger07 mentioned. Wind reading is tricky because it can be steady, change direction, stop and go, and change from full value to half value and so on. If you have the ability to get quick shots off you can also do what USMC Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock did at Camp Perry in 1965 to win the 1,000 Yard National High-Power Rifle Championship - The Wimbledon Cup. That year there was a lot of wind in the shoot off and his strategy was to wait for the wind to die to take his shots. His last shot, which won the competition, was fired just before his target dropped.

Bottom line is have fun and be positive in your shooting ability.

Here is a free video link to learn about the art of Kentucky Windage from the US Army Marksmanship training films:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdRLfO9CU2U&feature=related

[Laworkerbee]

on most days wind shouldn't be a huge problem at 200 yds with that cartridge.

x2! ................

[mdkoh]

This explains why I don't do so well in the matches............