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View Full Version : Airbus vs. Boeing: Two world views, poles apart



Chimera
03-30-2010, 10:39 AM
It will be a sticky patch to get through: an Airbus press release reveals that the World Trade Organization has rejected 70% of US complaints against Airbus, primarily concerning alleged subsidies.
This verdict, although not unexpected, may cause further deterioration in US/European relations, since the two sides are poles apart concerning the impact of this decision. To start with, Airbus is probably correct in stating that the battle before the WTO could last several more years, and that it can only be resolved within the framework of transatlantic negotiations. Yes, but what negotiations?
Each day, the news emphasizes to what extent the two sides are separated by an ocean of differences so deep that they might as well be living on different planets. The current battle over health care reform in the US provides a clear example of these differences. The immense majority of citizens in Europe, whatever their political convictions, expect a minimum of social protection, with the government playing a real role in society. The differences are all a question of dosage, according to individual political beliefs.
In the US on the other hand, quite the opposite seems to prevail, with an existential fear of government intervention, which surprises Europeans.
Any understanding seems close to impossible, before the WTO, or elsewhere. Boeing was no doubt expecting a verdict which would definitively condemn state aid given to its competitor. This does not appear to be the case, and moreover in the hour following the first information coming out of Geneva, Airbus indulged in a loud and clear claim that the 787 is the most highly subsidized civil aircraft in aviation history.
That of course is pure provocation, expressing a grand sigh of relief, as well as profound satisfaction, and the willingness to continue the struggle.
Airbus insists that it is the leading export customer for the US aerospace industry, each year purchasing over 10 billion dollars worth of equipment, systems, engines, and thus contributing to 180,000 jobs in the US.
But none of the European arguments seem able to penetrate this solid psychological block. The stereotypes, which seemed outdated and forgotten, have returned with a vengeance: "socialistic" Europe does not respect the rules, thumbing its nose at the most basic of sacrosanct values.
In such an atmosphere, the idea of EADS (without Northrop Grumman) making another bid for the USAF in-flight refueling tanker probably doesn't have a chance in a million of achieving success. The image of the KC-45A is simply that of an A330-200 in uniform, in other words, a subsidized aircraft in disguise, a Trojan horse from Toulouse seeking to destroy jobs in American industry.
In fact, this confrontation has become all the more wearing in that it will never lead to anything. On the other hand, it may enable the Russians, the Chinese, and to a certain extent, the Canadians and Brazilians to quietly develop their own "subsidized" airplanes, which may one day cause a rude awakening.
If truth be told, the question at hand, with or without the WTO, has absolutely nothing to do with the aeronautics industry. Each side is defending its values and its concept of the world economy, with the profound conviction of possessing "The Truth."
The best we could hope for is that it everyone would go home and stop talking about this.
Pierre Sparaco-AeroMorning.
Translated by Tim Bowler

http://www.aeromorning.com/en/chroniques.php?ch_id=689

Panchito12
03-30-2010, 02:19 PM
Airbus indulged in a loud and clear claim that the 787 is the most highly subsidized civil aircraft in aviation history.

Air(France)bus reminds me of this:
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8226/potkettleblackp.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/i/potkettleblackp.jpg/)

Rapier55
03-30-2010, 02:53 PM
It will be a sticky patch to get through: an Airbus press release reveals that the World Trade Organization has rejected 70% of US complaints against Airbus, primarily concerning alleged subsidies.
This reminds me of a jury duty story I heard. At the end of the trial the defense attorney celebrated that 5 out of the 7 counts had been dismissed by the jury. Charges of possession of drugs, grand theft auto, fleeing with intent to elude and I believe a felon in possession of a firearm had all be dismissed (I can't remeber them all). Yet, he was sentenced to life in prison plus 15 years for murder.

Derbedeu
03-30-2010, 04:02 PM
This reminds me of a jury duty story I heard. At the end of the trial the defense attorney celebrated that 5 out of the 7 counts had been dismissed by the jury. Charges of possession of drugs, grand theft auto, fleeing with intent to elude and I believe a felon in possession of a firearm had all be dismissed (I can't remeber them all). Yet, he was sentenced to life in prison plus 15 years for murder.

In this case, it's quite the opposite:

2. The European reimbursable loan mechanism is confirmed to be a legal and compliant instrument of partnership between government and industry.

3. The Panel refused the US request for remedies as legally inappropriate.

5. Possible future funding for the A350 is not affected in any way by today's report. US attempts to include the A350 were specifically rejected.

6. Neither European RLI nor any other measure has caused "material injury" to any US interest. This means that the Panel has rejected the US claims that European measure caused job losses or lost profits in the US aircraft industry. Boeing claims of lost US jobs have now been judged and found to be false.

Points, 2,3, and 6, were the major points of contention by the US against Airbus.

It will be interesting to see how Boeing fairs in their ruling.

Rapier55
03-30-2010, 08:25 PM
In this case, it's quite the opposite:

2. The European reimbursable loan mechanism is confirmed to be a legal and compliant instrument of partnership between government and industry.

3. The Panel refused the US request for remedies as legally inappropriate.

5. Possible future funding for the A350 is not affected in any way by today's report. US attempts to include the A350 were specifically rejected.

6. Neither European RLI nor any other measure has caused "material injury" to any US interest. This means that the Panel has rejected the US claims that European measure caused job losses or lost profits in the US aircraft industry. Boeing claims of lost US jobs have now been judged and found to be false.

Points, 2,3, and 6, were the major points of contention by the US against Airbus.

It will be interesting to see how Boeing fairs in their ruling.Of course, if you use Airbus' argument it seems quite the "opposite." It's official, the WTO has ruled AGAINST Airbus. Airbus can spin it however they want for PR.

2. The European reimbursable loan mechanism is legal, as are most government loans. The heavily subsidized interest and loan terms are what is not legal. This is the heart of the case and where the WTO ultimately ruled against Airbus. Back in September the interim WTO report said the preferential loans were illegal export subsidies. Who are they trying to fool with their word play?

3. PR spin. The WTO can't force countries or companies to eliminate subsidies but it can allow retaliatory sanctions and tariffs against the offending entity. Legal remedies can take anywhere from 1 to 5 years from the date of a report. Considering this and the fact that there is an outstanding case against Boeing the WTO refused the request because it is a premature request. It has nothing to do with vindicating Airbus. Rather, the WTO is going through legal due process and waiting for the report on Boeing.

5. More PR Spin. The 2005 WTO panel request didn't present a full case against the A350, but more a case against the already developed lines in the Airbus family. Boeing would have needed to file a new complaint against the A350 with the WTO had they wanted the A350 considered. The launch-aid subsidies for the A350 weren't announced until 2007, 2 years too late for Boeing's filing. The 2005 WTO complaint couldn't take into account what happened in 2007. Lucky for the A350.

Prior to 2007, I recall Tom Enders saying:"EADS does not need help to fund the A350." A good way to exclude the A350 out of the 2005 WTO complaint?

I find it funny how after both the interim and final report Airbus proclaims this vague victory despite both reports stating the WTO has ruled against them.

IconOfEvi
03-31-2010, 08:09 PM
Why hasn't anyone cited as a point of picking over the Airbus that we always desire domestically produced stuff?