What Will It Take To Save Mexico?

[SoSo]

What will it take to save Mexico? Investment and tourism won't come without stability. So, how can the catastrophic violence that is destroying the country be ended?
Obviously, I'm no expert, because I was one of the people on this forum who predicted that decriminalizing drugs in Mexico would help bring the situation under control. As we can all see, it hasn't. So what is it going to take? Drug decriminalization here in the United States? Obviously, Mexico has no control over that, but it's a thought. Should Mexico form military and police death squads, to carry out extrajudicial killings of cartel members on sight? Should they permit Mexican citizens to purchase firearms, for self-defense? Should large bounties be placed on the heads of cartel members?
Tell me what you think.

[Shurik SST]

Just a note - decriminalizing drugs in Mexico does nothing because the US will still press on the Mexican government to continue its War on Drugs south of the border. It is not the illegal or legal status of drugs in Mexico that drives this but money. Cartels would not care less about legalizing drugs in Mexico, that is not how and where they make their money. They care about how much money they can make in the US.

You got to invest in Mexico, raise people out of poverty. I know it sounds like some lovey liberal thing but living in extreme poverty will drive some percentage of them into the lucrative drug trade. Somehow, you have to make it more appealing for people to work in factories, work in farming etc etc rather than drug trafficking.

[deagle]

well, we're trying to "save" iraq and a-stan right now. mexico is next, and then ourselves.

[Panchito12]

I think that the Seal of the state of New Mexico is a good start. Take a look at it below. Notice the big eagle has it's wing over the little eagle in a sort of protective fatherly embrace. Guess who is the big eagle and who is the little eagle?

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/323/newmexicoseal.png (http://img717.imageshack.us/i/newmexicoseal.png/)

[Sootan]

Martial law?

[Tokamak]

I think its up to their society. Mexico is ****ed up because of their society allowed it. They have the country that they deserve. Most of the people complain about corruption but most of them take part on it one way or another. How many of them actually follow the rules or the laws?. They complain about crime, well then don't give money to the police every time you break the rules.

Guns are not the solutions, education and jobs will have a better result in the long run. Do they actually care? I doubt it, otherwise they would be on the streets fighting for education and sack those corrupt leaders they have. Anyway I should stop there I can get into troubles for what I really believe.

[budgie]

Massive political will. Education, infrastructure, economy and jobs will put an end to corruption. Remember the cartels cannot operate wholly in spite of government: there must be corrupt officials who help them out.

[Nano]

I must be missing something, but does Mexico really need any one saving it? Tokamak is for the most part right on the money with his view on the issue facing Mexico and it is accepted/expected government corruption via societal corruption. As for the Op's concept about drug use decriminalization being done in Mexico lessening the violence is rather disingenuous on part of the Mexican and U.S governments given that illicit drug production/distribution is still illegal in Mexico. Drugs use/distribution in the U.S is what drives the violence in Mexico and as well as gang crime here. The U.S government can very well make drug use legal in the U.S, but like here in California(medical marijuana) unless both use and production/distribution laws are in sync it is meaningless. The fact is that Mexico does not need any saving at all and it has been as such for much of it's history. The best thing we can do if we care about Mexico is to take care of our own problems in the U.S and not worry about Mexico. The U.S involvement in Mexico will only make things worse for both country's not better.

[danielc]

It seems to me that the biggest problem with Mexico, and most of Latin America, is an almost complete disregard for the rule of law. In part, this attitude is cultural, but it is also the result of low human development, when people are not very educated they don't have high expectations for the government institutions that serve them. For the long-run, this problem could be less relevant if the government invests in education and proactively fights corruption by educating people on the need to not accept corruption as a normal practice.

For the short-term, the best thing to alleviate the crazy crimes taking place in Mexico would be for the US to stop criminalizing marijuana growth and use. The only thing that prohibition seems to accomplish is destroy countless lives, and make fabulously rich a bunch of unsavory characters. Its about the same as it was when booze was illegal.

[3rdMillhouse]

What will it take to save Mexico? Investment and tourism won't come without stability. So, how can the catastrophic violence that is destroying the country be ended?
Obviously, I'm no expert, because I was one of the people on this forum who predicted that decriminalizing drugs in Mexico would help bring the situation under control. As we can all see, it hasn't. So what is it going to take? Drug decriminalization here in the United States? Obviously, Mexico has no control over that, but it's a thought. Should Mexico form military and police death squads, to carry out extrajudicial killings of cartel members on sight? Should they permit Mexican citizens to purchase firearms, for self-defense? Should large bounties be placed on the heads of cartel members?
Tell me what you think.

The Mexican presidency has to issue an authority allowing the police and the military to execute cartel members on sight;

the sigil of telecomunications has to be suspended at will without the need of a court order,

mexicans citizens should be allowed at least pistols and shotguns for self-defense,

large bounties should placed on the heads of cartel member (dead or alive),

the privacy of session between the lawyers of cartel members and their clientes should be suspended,

death penalty and life imprisionment should be instituted,

cameras should be placed everywhere in all major mexican cities,

motorcicle users should be forced to wear a special jacket with their license plate number printed on it;

inmates of heinous crimes such as drug dealing, kidnaping, murder, rape, executions and such should be isolated from any contact with visitors during one year

And the list goes on.


It seems to me that the biggest problem with Mexico, and most of Latin America, is an almost complete disregard for the rule of law. In part, this attitude is cultural, but it is also the result of low human development, when people are not very educated they don't have high expectations for the government institutions that serve them. For the long-run, this problem could be less relevant if the government invests in education and proactively fights corruption by educating people on the need to not accept corruption as a normal practice.

You are right in this assumption regarding the behavious of the population of most latin american countries, I know it's this way here in Brazil.

[Mastermind]

Save Mexico? From what? For what?

Mexico's problem has been in the making for a hundred...no, two hundred years. It is elitism gon amok...You have peasants and then you have the ruling elite and that's the way Mexico has been, basically, forever. How do you change that? The drug lords are as good as the ruling elitists in the minds of the poor. Typically, the rich folks have pushed and molded the poor into this mass so hopeless of any real change, they have become a gelatinous gob of people willing to do just about anything to get on to another day with a full belly. Look what they go through just to get to a back breaking job in the US.

Now, suddenly, the conventional elitists are pissed that some filthy rich drug lords, who have less civility than ancient Mongols and more money than God, are pushing them out of the way....at least the Drug Lords come into the people with open hands, actually willing to pay for services of smuggling, growing, processing, protecting, and packaging their products.

No...I say what is happening in Mexico is a result of some very bad decisions on the part of the ruling elitie and I consider it a kind of revolution...not one that I think will have any outcome better than the past enslavements of people...but, it is different and it trashes one set of petty kings for another, probably even more cruel.

In short...there is not one gdmned thing that can be done to save Mexico....it has been a cesspool of human misery and it will continue to be one...all because of greedy bastards who have not one shred of human decency in them.

[Tokamak]

The Mexican presidency has to issue an authority allowing the police and the military to execute cartel members on sight;

the sigil of telecomunications has to be suspended at will without the need of a court order,

mexicans citizens should be allowed at least pistols and shotguns for self-defense,

large bounties should placed on the heads of cartel member (dead or alive),

the privacy of session between the lawyers of cartel members and their clientes should be suspended,

death penalty and life imprisionment should be instituted,

cameras should be placed everywhere in all major mexican cities,

motorcicle users should be forced to wear a special jacket with their license plate number printed on it;

inmates of heinous crimes such as drug dealing, kidnaping, murder, rape, executions and such should be isolated from any contact with visitors during one year

And the list goes on.



You are right in this assumption regarding the behavious of the population of most latin american countries, I know it's this way here in Brazil.


The Mexican presidency has to issue an authority allowing the police and the military to execute cartel members on sigh

You can't be serious. Not long ago the police killed two postgraduate students believing they were cartel members. Some teenagers were killed and the first thing the PRESIDENT said was that they were also cartel members and they weren't.

Also believing that handing out weapons to everybody will solve or even help to solve the problem is really short sighted. All you do is to create more problems. That would work in a society where the civilians have a sense of civility and tend to follow the rules or laws, something that doesn't happen in Mexico.

[Nano]

Mastermind is closest to the reason for the Mexican government's war against the drug cartels. The conventional ruling elites lost control of the drug trade and now want it back it is that simple really. 3rdMillhouse that is a recipe for civil war and the people taking sides with whatever cartel they can side with.

[SoSo]

[QUOTE=Panchito12;4854723]I think that the Seal of the state of New Mexico is a good start. Take a look at it below. Notice the big eagle has it's wing over the little eagle in a sort of protective fatherly embrace. Guess who is the big eagle and who is the little eagle?

Panchito, I just read your post, and I laughed so hard, I almost choked on my coffee!

[seraosha]

Want to save out neighbor to the South?
Close the damn border, de-criminalize marijuana, and within a year we will be winning the border war from both sides, with the douchebag cartels in the middle screaming for mercy.
Eliminate half their funds, while boosting our (and Mexico's) tax revenue, removing utterly useless arrests, prosecutions, jails, and all the associated costs of the failed "war on drugs".

And for sh!ts and giggles, pull some light cav units off the line and put them out in the SW desert along the border for "training"...ok, that might not be constitutional, not sure...but enough is enough. YMMV

[Nano]

Save Mexico? From what? For what?

Mexico's problem has been in the making for a hundred...no, two hundred years. It is elitism gon amok...You have peasants and then you have the ruling elite and that's the way Mexico has been, basically, forever. How do you change that? The drug lords are as good as the ruling elitists in the minds of the poor. Typically, the rich folks have pushed and molded the poor into this mass so hopeless of any real change, they have become a gelatinous gob of people willing to do just about anything to get on to another day with a full belly. Look what they go through just to get to a back breaking job in the US.

Now, suddenly, the conventional elitists are pissed that some filthy rich drug lords, who have less civility than ancient Mongols and more money than God, are pushing them out of the way....at least the Drug Lords come into the people with open hands, actually willing to pay for services of smuggling, growing, processing, protecting, and packaging their products.

No...I say what is happening in Mexico is a result of some very bad decisions on the part of the ruling elitie and I consider it a kind of revolution...not one that I think will have any outcome better than the past enslavements of people...but, it is different and it trashes one set of petty kings for another, probably even more cruel.

In short...there is not one gdmned thing that can be done to save Mexico....it has been a cesspool of human misery and it will continue to be one...all because of greedy bastards who have not one shred of human decency in them.
I agree with most and your view on the reasons behind the "war on the cartels" which really only amounts to certain cartels. The conventional ruling elites have sucked the Mexican people dry leaving them with just enough to eat. The ruling elites have not invested in Mexico or its people. The world richest man Carlos Slim in part because of a government given monopoly of a telecommunication network funded by its citizens. Few if any of the very richest Mexicans contribute to any education programs. Guess who does?

[Nano]

Want to save out neighbor to the South?
Close the damn border, de-criminalize marijuana, and within a year we will be winning the border war from both sides, with the douchebag cartels in the middle screaming for mercy.
Eliminate half their funds, while boosting our (and Mexico's) tax revenue, removing utterly useless arrests, prosecutions, jails, and all the associated costs of the failed "war on drugs".

And for sh!ts and giggles, pull some light cav units off the line and put them out in the SW desert along the border for "training"...ok, that might not be constitutional, not sure...but enough is enough. YMMV
Not going to ever happen and it won't even matter all that much. Marijuana is just a part of the drugs being used in any case. The border being porous is an understatement and very little can effectively be done to stop everything and everybody from crossing over it even if you put Abrams tanks with live fire exercises. The only way to do that is for all drugs to be legalized/regulated/taxed and cutting off the flow of revenue effectively in that manner.One can make a deal with the big pharma companies of giving them permits to be makers/distributors in exchange for cheaply priced medicine.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Save Mexico? From what? For what?

In short...there is not one gdmned thing that can be done to save Mexico....it has been a cesspool of human misery and it will continue to be one...all because of greedy bastards who have not one shred of human decency in them.From what my Dad and Sister-In-Law have told me about Mexico I would agree with you on this conclusion. My Sister-In-Law went there a few years back with a medical mission and the authorities made it nearly impossible for them to treat people despite the whole thing being handled through the Mexican Consulate in London, she reckoned the Mexican govt would have been happier if they had went to the beach instead of treating the sick.

[Charliegrs]

This is what needs to happen for Mexico to get to solve the drug cartel problem:

1.It starts with the government: Mexico needs a president who has the balls to sack corrupt officials. Even if that means he has to fire 3/4s of the government. The problem will never be solved if even the government cannot be law abiding and good to its own people.

2.Legalize drugs in the US and Mexico. Destroy the market that these cartels thrive on. I know for some this is a very radical move, but remember we dont have people smuggling alcohol into our country and no violence in other countries associated with getting it here. Think about why that is.

3. Corrupt local officials/police need to be fired. If the local governors and mayors cant clean up their own police forces they need to be fired as well.

4. Mexico needs to become a place where people want to live and live the right way. Theres a reason why so many people will risk their lives to cross a desert just so that they can work a roofing job 12 hours a day in the 115 degree arizona heat. And for some in mexico, joining a cartel makes more sense then getting a real job, if they can even get one. The culture of corruption and carelessness of those in power in mexico has to stop. Americans arent flooding to canada! Thats because for the most part this is a good place to live. Mexico needs to become a good place for mexicans to live.

Sadly, I dont think any of this will happen.

[bababooey]

I googled 'border patrol' and I got this link for the 'american border patrol'. Looks like its some guy in a light plane with cameras watching the border and calling in the real border patrol. Talk about taking on the border issue head on!

[Boxed_Wine]

What will it take to save Mexico? Investment and tourism won't come without stability. So, how can the catastrophic violence that is destroying the country be ended?
Obviously, I'm no expert, because I was one of the people on this forum who predicted that decriminalizing drugs in Mexico would help bring the situation under control. As we can all see, it hasn't. So what is it going to take? Drug decriminalization here in the United States? Obviously, Mexico has no control over that, but it's a thought. Should Mexico form military and police death squads, to carry out extrajudicial killings of cartel members on sight? Should they permit Mexican citizens to purchase firearms, for self-defense? Should large bounties be placed on the heads of cartel members?
Tell me what you think.

The tricky thing about forming death squads is that there is a lot of corruption in these forces and these death squads could be used by cartels to take out competition. Also, allowing citizens to purchase arms just makes it easier for the cartels to have access to weapons.

I think they need to create an armed force specially designed for this specific problem and make sure that there is absolutely no corruption in this force. They also need to create some sort of anti-corruption ministry that tries to remove corruption from the government, police and army. Next, they need to spend a lot of money on education and job creation. The world bank started a successful program in Turkey a few years ago where it gave money to poor families in rural areas to send their children to school, i think similar schemes would work well in Mexico. One other thing i can think of is sealing their land, air and sea borders with bordering countries.

My two cents.

[creativeUsername]

Placing large bounties on cartel members is the best way to beat the cartels imo. The low level guys in the cartel would see a much bigger payday by turning on the higher ups and collecting the bounties on them than simply working for them, and the mid level guys wouldnt try to take over because of fear of the same happening to them. Nobody willing to take over the power vacuum means the cartels fall apart. Let the free market take care of the problem.

[West Texican]

I'm not a Mexico basher, quite the opposite, I genuinely like Mexico and Mexicans but I have to point something out. I work beside two immigrants from Mexico, one is from Chihuahua and the other is from Durango. Both say they left Mexico so their children would not get sucked into the hero worship mentality towards these thugs that is tearing the nation down. Here in America we have a similar cult of worship for groups like Hell's Angels, Mongols, Banditos, and such. Basically they are despicable people hidden behind a fog of deceit and lore that makes them seem heroic when they are no such thing. Same thing in Mexico but to a much greater degree with the drug cartel members. Many look upon them as models of success because they have a lot of wealth but look the other way as to how they achieved that wealth. It has been a part of Mexican culture for well over a century that should be laid to rest. Santos and Jesus, the two I work with, both say that until the Mexican people start rejecting that path this will continue on and on. Blaming it on America's and the world's appetite for drugs doesn't cut it since it is actually just a newer chapter in a very long running story. The criminal cult of Mexico is much older than the pot/drug culture it feeds on these days.

[Lethal Lou]

How about expansion? Start with Baja California - offer to make them the 51st state! Lots of turmoil but that's probably the easiest of the northern tier to digest. Then negotiate for the balance of the northern tier. The elites in Mexico City don't really care that much about that section of the country anyway. Oh yeah - and as we go build a fence across the new southern border. Re the violence/etc. Gives Obama a chance to see how his "treat terrorists like criminals" strategy works against the real thing. Since all the NAFTA factories are abutting the border that should please the unions as the employees will now all be US workers! In other words - quit looking at stuff the same old way that's been bickered and moaned about for ages - how about some outside of the box thinking.

[IconOfEvi]

I think that the Seal of the state of New Mexico is a good start. Take a look at it below. Notice the big eagle has it's wing over the little eagle in a sort of protective fatherly embrace. Guess who is the big eagle and who is the little eagle?

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/323/newmexicoseal.png (http://img717.imageshack.us/i/newmexicoseal.png/)

Awww, Mexican eagle looks so sad and emo :)

But yeah, my thoughts. Although we should have done it last century...

[Xomimilt]

question have any of you read Mexican history in detail? or have kept up with Mexican economy etc...?

[SoSo]

Yes, I have. The resiliance of the Mexican people gives me some cause for hope, although otherwise the situation is pretty sad.
But annexing Mexico, or part of Mexico, isn't the answer. All joking about the big eagle and the little eagle aside, such an attempt would be the worst mistake we ever made. Although the Mexican people appear to be disarmed and dispirited, I promise you, if the US or any other outsider tried to occupy their country they would rise up with a fury comparable to what we've seen in Afghanistan. For a scary glimpse of such a war, check out the French intervention, the Mexican-American War, the Mexican Revolution, the Cristero and Escobarista rebellions. Any other solution would be better than invading Mexico, believe me!

[LaoSexMachine]

What Will It Take To Save Mexico?

Mexicans. .

[Mastermind]

Mexicans. .
This is the best answer....end of discussion!

[IconOfEvi]

I still think Mexico eagle looks so ronery and emo next to the American eagle...

[Lethal Lou]

Yes, I have. The resiliance of the Mexican people gives me some cause for hope, although otherwise the situation is pretty sad.
But annexing Mexico, or part of Mexico, isn't the answer. All joking about the big eagle and the little eagle aside, such an attempt would be the worst mistake we ever made. Although the Mexican people appear to be disarmed and dispirited, I promise you, if the US or any other outsider tried to occupy their country they would rise up with a fury comparable to what we've seen in Afghanistan. For a scary glimpse of such a war, check out the French intervention, the Mexican-American War, the Mexican Revolution, the Cristero and Escobarista rebellions. Any other solution would be better than invading Mexico, believe me!

Concur - perhaps I wasn't clear. The intent is to INVITE the residents of Baja California (for starters) to hold a referendum/follow other internally determined procedure on whether or not their state would leave Mexico and join the US en banc. They get all rights/privileges/responsiblities of other US citizens on that day. No matter how strong the patriotism, that's a rather strong incentive to make the change. Selected Baja Cali for an example as it's geographicly convenient. There is no LIMIT on 50 states in the US - it's been 50+ years since one was added but that doesn't mean it can't be done in future. Having the (enthusiastic) consent of folks choosing to join the US versus compelling people against their will is a huge difference.

[IconOfEvi]

Well no Pres has the balls to offer provinces or whatever of another country statehood - we're too timid of the 'world backlash' against our 'arrogance' or something.

Mind you, we MUST take Canada someday, no matter what. Its been the destiny since the Articles Of Confederation.

[Tokamak]

Mexicans. .

That's what I tried to say. TRUE.

[IconOfEvi]

I dunno, they might try conquering Central America instead of actually trying to fix their own country.

Again, we should take everything. Obvious solution

[LineDoggie]

How about expansion? Start with Baja California - offer to make them the 51st state! Aw HELL NO!

We have enough problems in this country with our own people and providing for them.
Now you seriously think that the Mexican Government would allow this to happen? we just waltze in and annex part of their country.

Mexicans will solve Mexicos problems, we can offer help. If we try and take them over we will have more problems than it's worth.

[LineDoggie]

Awww, Mexican eagle looks so sad and emo :)

But yeah, my thoughts. Although we should have done it last century...Its got a rattler in its beak and standing on cactus, thats Badass

[IconOfEvi]

No, he is emo. He is sad, and its cute for some reason :). He (she?) is probably just trying to give the snake a hug. As for standing on a cactus, we all know emo's like to cut themselves.

[Russian_dude]

There is a hilarious amount of naivete on this forum. It's like people are completely ignorant of how the world works. You cannot cure the desease by going after SYMPTOMS.

"Mexican President needs the balls to fire corrupt officials" - to replace with whom? Other corrupt officials? Officials do not come pre-corrupted, they get so in office. As long as the cartels have money, they will corrupt. Firing officials is like fighting the incoming tide with a bucket.

"Shoot cartel memebers on site, extra-judicial killings, death squads, suspending communication" - doesn't the cure sound worse then the desease? To fight marijuana, you turn the country into North Korea? You really want Mexican politicians having that kind of power? How will they look different from the cartels then? News flash people, Iran is VERY tough on drugs... and has over a million junkies and yes, you can buy ALCOHOL AND *** in Iran. Pretty easily... despite the horrendous penalties.

"Arming the populace" - if armed cartel members attack other heavily armed cartel memebers, why would Miguel thr Farmer owning an old pump action shotgun or a Chinese TT knock-off be a hinderance to them plying their trade?

"Closing the border." - ain't gonna work. North Koreans get across the DMZ and in general into South Korea. With the kind of money at stake, cartels will be one step ahead all the time... even if you turn entire STATES into DMZs. Put a fence, they will dig under it. Put mines, they will simply employ more "legs". Dig 100 meter deep ditches... they will dig 101 meter tunnels or fly over. Put robots patrolling the border, they will bribe programmers of the robots to let them through. Spend billions in fighting drugs in Colombia, they will move to Nigeria.


You can prohibit somebody from thinking about the colour yellow... but will it work?

One solution. Legalize and tax. Instead of Pedro the billionaire cartel owner making another billion, that money will go towards education or science research and if somebody wants to kill themselves on drugs... let them. Druggies are ONLY a threat to society when they are NOT on drugs and desperate to buy them. Give it to them free or dirt cheap and crime will plummet.

[IconOfEvi]

I suppose your bribeable programmers will be able to do these guys?:

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/t/terminators.jpg

[Obet1979]

119675

incorruptible

[lzdbb]

What will it take to save Mexico? Investment and tourism won't come without stability.
Tell me what you think.
Communist Party will give you stability ,so save you. lol

[Mastermind]

@Russain Dude comment: yes...legalization is a good way to go for drug war. In fact, as far as I can tell it is the only way to go. We are not winning this...in fact, we are actually losing it and the cost to both our society and our economy is horrendous and unsustainable. Eventually, legalization will be the only viable option.

However, as I watch the rapid expansion of police forces, the enactment at a fantastic rate of new laws, i see drugs as a new empire building commodity...for both the drug dealers and the law enforcement orgs. They sustain the illegality in order to justify their existence and their profit...yes, anti-drug LEOs are a "profit" business in that the officers revel in their ever expanding power, numbers and the expensive toys they get to help them enforce and "fight" the dug war. It is preposterous. All the while, society is the victim of both ends of the Drug War. How do we stop this expansion spiral? Legalization!

[creativeUsername]

@Russain Dude comment: yes...legalization is a good way to go for drug war. In fact, as far as I can tell it is the only way to go. We are not winning this...in fact, we are actually losing it and the cost to both our society and our economy is horrendous and unsustainable. Eventually, legalization will be the only viable option.

However, as I watch the rapid expansion of police forces, the enactment at a fantastic rate of new laws, i see drugs as a new empire building commodity...for both the drug dealers and the law enforcement orgs. They sustain the illegality in order to justify their existence and their profit...yes, anti-drug LEOs are a "profit" business in that the officers revel in their ever expanding power, numbers and the expensive toys they get to help them enforce and "fight" the dug war. It is preposterous. All the while, society is the victim of both ends of the Drug War. How do we stop this expansion spiral? Legalization!

Legalization isnt the silver bullet.

Cartels make far more money from Cocaine and heroin trafficking. Its worth more per gram and is more easily concealed than marijuana.
Legalizing weed wont stop the flow of the more hardcore drugs, and i seriously doubt anyone would consider legalizing coke.

The difference between coke and weed is coke is addictive, its not likley that meth and heroine addicts would just quit cold turkey all of a sudden because weed is legal.

South America needs to get more involved, the Mexican government can flood the North of mexico with all the soldiers and guns it wants, it wont do much good when the cartels can move tons of coke into Mexico from Central and South America.

Cocaine is a consumer product like any other, as long as they can sell it for more than it costs to produce and transport, they wont stop. It costs pennies to produce and the cartels sell it for 1000% more than what it costs to grow and manufacture.

The only way to stop them is to make it incredibly expensive and difficult to produce and transport drugs into the United States. The price of coke would skyrocket meaning the core of the Cartels consumbers (junkies and addicts) wont be able to afford it, the lower level dealers wont risk 20 years in prison for such a low payoff.

Tighter security around Mexicos southern border, more herbicide spraying coca fields in Central and South America, more bounties on high ranking cartel members, more inexpensive or government funded rehab clinics in the United States, etc.

Money is the Cartels power, they bribe police, politicians, customs officials, border guards, workers, the farmers who grow the coca plants, etc.
Bankrupting the Cartels is the only way to beat them.

[Xomimilt]

Mexico Initiative

Mexico Initiative is an unprecedented call in a historic year. It is a national project that seeks to rescue the dynamic and enterprising Mexico as well as recognize and celebrate the efforts of people with their initiatives, working for the Mexico that we all want.

Mexico Initiative aims to detonate, as part of the Bicentennial of Independence and the Centennial of the Mexican Revolution, a profound reflection on the responsibility of Mexicans in the course favorable to Mexico.

Mexico Initiative is a call to action. Therefore, the heart of this project is an invitation to such persons, institutions and organizations that have begun to transform the country to submit their social action projects or ecological already making a positive difference in your environment.

The best initiatives will be recognized and receive training and professional courses in addition to economic support to continue its work in Mexico.

For more info (or Ideas) site is in SPANISH
http://iniciativamexico.org/#baseA (http://iniciativamexico.org/#baseA)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmQzqjfbwNc

[Ordie]

Concur - perhaps I wasn't clear. The intent is to INVITE the residents of Baja California (for starters) to hold a referendum/follow other internally determined procedure on whether or not their state would leave Mexico and join the US en banc. They get all rights/privileges/responsiblities of other US citizens on that day. No matter how strong the patriotism, that's a rather strong incentive to make the change. Selected Baja Cali for an example as it's geographicly convenient. There is no LIMIT on 50 states in the US - it's been 50+ years since one was added but that doesn't mean it can't be done in future. Having the (enthusiastic) consent of folks choosing to join the US versus compelling people against their will is a huge difference.

Ironically there was a point in history where the entire Baja Penninsula would have been part of the United States as a spoil of the Mexican war. Soldiers (more specifically New York Volunteers) were set on settling La Paz and its environs at the conclusion of the war. When they were ordered to leave, the New York Volunteers rioted and had to be quelled by Marines.

[Ordie]

Communist Party will give you stability ,so save you. lol

Ironically, for 70 years, Mexico had a de facto single party state with the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) dominating everything.
Even though there was corruption and economic regulation, it was relatively stable.

[IconOfEvi]

Ironically there was a point in history where the entire Baja Penninsula would have been part of the United States as a spoil of the Mexican war. Soldiers (more specifically New York Volunteers) were set on settling La Paz and its environs at the conclusion of the war. When they were ordered to leave, the New York Volunteers rioted and had to be quelled by Marines.

Guvmint sure does know how to ruin a good thing :(

[Russian_dude]

Legalization isnt the silver bullet.

Cartels make far more money from Cocaine and heroin trafficking. Its worth more per gram and is more easily concealed than marijuana.
Legalizing weed wont stop the flow of the more hardcore drugs, and i seriously doubt anyone would consider legalizing coke.

The difference between coke and weed is coke is addictive, its not likley that meth and heroine addicts would just quit cold turkey all of a sudden because weed is legal.

South America needs to get more involved, the Mexican government can flood the North of mexico with all the soldiers and guns it wants, it wont do much good when the cartels can move tons of coke into Mexico from Central and South America.

Cocaine is a consumer product like any other, as long as they can sell it for more than it costs to produce and transport, they wont stop. It costs pennies to produce and the cartels sell it for 1000% more than what it costs to grow and manufacture.

The only way to stop them is to make it incredibly expensive and difficult to produce and transport drugs into the United States. The price of coke would skyrocket meaning the core of the Cartels consumbers (junkies and addicts) wont be able to afford it, the lower level dealers wont risk 20 years in prison for such a low payoff.

Tighter security around Mexicos southern border, more herbicide spraying coca fields in Central and South America, more bounties on high ranking cartel members, more inexpensive or government funded rehab clinics in the United States, etc.

Money is the Cartels power, they bribe police, politicians, customs officials, border guards, workers, the farmers who grow the coca plants, etc.
Bankrupting the Cartels is the only way to beat them.


Why not legalize coke? It used to be legal. Society did not collapse. I can tell you that in many Euro countries it's easier to get coke then weed (but not hash). Coke is already almost openly sold in certain places.

[Harry Henkel]

Why not legalize coke? It used to be legal. Society did not collapse. I can tell you that in many Euro countries it's easier to get coke then weed (but not hash). Coke is already almost openly sold in certain places.

But then you might as well legalize everything, from mushrooms to heroin.

[Russian_dude]

But then you might as well legalize everything, from mushrooms to heroin.

You could order heroin from a catalogue back in the day (20's and 30's I think). Shrooms are very mild, just like MDMA (less dangerous or addictive then Ritalin which is prescribed for millions of Americans). Technically only heroin, crack and meth are really dangerous, the rest you can legalize.

Heroin needs to be decriminalized though. For example in Switzerland, registered drug addicts get free heroin. You wouldn't exactly call switzerland a crack den?

[el borracho]

"Arming the populace" - if armed cartel members attack other heavily armed cartel memebers, why would Miguel thr Farmer owning an old pump action shotgun or a Chinese TT knock-off be a hinderance to them plying their trade?


Just to be clear, most rural farmers and ranchers are armed. The "cuerno de chivo" (various AK models) is a preferred weapon of choice for defending one's property, fending off banditos, hunting, celebrating weddings, baptisms, quincenearas, and ringing in the new year.

[seraosha]

Shrooms are very mild, just like MDMA
Heroin needs to be decriminalized though. For example in Switzerland, registered drug addicts get free heroin. You wouldn't exactly call switzerland a crack den?

I question your knowledge of either mushrooms of MDMA as anything more than academic...either that, or you don't know where to buy decent drugs from.
And switzerland has a population of roughly 7,647,675 (http://www.google.com/search?q=population+of+switzerland&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1)while an impressive number...compared to just the state of Texas, with 24,782,302 (http://www.google.com/search?q=population+of+texas&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1)exactly what kind of comparison is remotely possible in the argument to legalize heroin? The sheer scale of your proposed endeavor is beyond your imagination, so please, try to stay within the realm of possibility.

[California Joe]

You could order heroin from a catalogue back in the day (20's and 30's I think). Shrooms are very mild, just like MDMA (less dangerous or addictive then Ritalin which is prescribed for millions of Americans). Technically only heroin, crack and meth are really dangerous, the rest you can legalize.

Heroin needs to be decriminalized though. For example in Switzerland, registered drug addicts get free heroin. You wouldn't exactly call switzerland a crack den?

You're a f*cking clown.

[sepheronx]

Burritos

Lots and lots of burritos

And more hot chicks. Those Latinas are smoking.

[Sydor Ukie]

Mexico had potential under Maximillian to become an Europeanized Western State like Argentina or Uruguay.

The underlining historical problem in Mexico in my opinion was centralization (despots like Santa Anna consoliodating control) and hostility towards immigrants (especially Anglo and German immigrants who would have created large farming estates and brought innovation)>

[el borracho]

Historically, I would have to say that any European occupation of Mexico would have been doomed to fall sooner or later. Argentina and Uruguay did not have the gigantic numbers of indigenous people and their descendants that Mexico did (and still does), therefore with the influx of immigrants a more European minded culture was able to easily supplant the local one in those regions. In Mexico, a native rebellion was inevitable and any attempt at post-independence colonization would have drained the budgets of the European conquering powers.

Another option that no one has brought up: oftentimes when neighboring nations have a problem along the border the stronger state will encourage a local rebellion or use political finagling to liberate the border region and create a buffer state. Viva La Republica Unida de Sonora y Chihuahua!

[IconOfEvi]

Burritos

Lots and lots of burritos

And more hot chicks. Those Latinas are smoking.

Whats sad is that if we annex Mexico, we will see a large increase in Sharpie sales :(

This is why we annex SOUTH Americans.

[SoSo]

We need to start asking ourselves what we're going to do if the violence in Mexico worsens, and the number of people seeking refuge here in the States increases dramatically. Some fool suggested mining the border, to keep people out; he wasn't taken seriously. But if we did mine the border, or completely fenced it, or even guarded it with thousands of armed patrolmen and soldiers, what will we do when thousands of refugees appear, families, kids, old people, desperate to escape the fighting, hungry, thirsty, in need of medicine and shelter, pressing in a mass against the fence?
Armed narcotrafficantes you can shoot down, when they try to cross into our country, but what about refugees? You can't open fire on defenseless people, even if they're tresspassing. And you can't force them back into a war zone, to face certain death, at bayonet point. What will we do, if the still-smoldering Mexican Revolution bursts into flames again on our doorstep? Will we admit thousands of Mexican refugees? What choice will we have? All we can do is hope the Mexicans can get things back under control, before it comes to that.

[Mastermind]

We need to start asking ourselves what we're going to do if the violence in Mexico worsens, and the number of people seeking refuge here in the States increases dramatically. Some fool suggested mining the border, to keep people out; he wasn't taken seriously. But if we did mine the border, or completely fenced it, or even guarded it with thousands of armed patrolmen and soldiers, what will we do when thousands of refugees appear, families, kids, old people, desperate to escape the fighting, hungry, thirsty, in need of medicine and shelter, pressing in a mass against the fence?
Armed narcotrafficantes you can shoot down, when they try to cross into our country, but what about refugees? You can't open fire on defenseless people, even if they're tresspassing. And you can't force them back into a war zone, to face certain death, at bayonet point. What will we do, if the still-smoldering Mexican Revolution bursts into flames again on our doorstep? Will we admit thousands of Mexican refugees? What choice will we have? All we can do is hope the Mexicans can get things back under control, before it comes to that.

I personally don't care about the violence in Mexico...But, when it bleeds over into the USA and threatens thesafety and security of American citizens...legal American citizens...that's another worry for all of us. What do we do? We rush to the border, fortify it and dare the mfers to come across...we do what is necessary to protect our nation and our people...as we should be doing against the Muslim Radicals.

[Ordie]

I personally don't care about the violence in Mexico...But, when it bleeds over into the USA and threatens thesafety and security of American citizens...legal American citizens...that's another worry for all of us. What do we do? We rush to the border, fortify it and dare the mfers to come across...we do what is necessary to protect our nation and our people...as we should be doing against the Muslim Radicals.

Ironically its the American druggies that support the Narcos and thier violence. Shutting the border will not stop the Narcos profit steam. They'll just set up labs within the US to produce synthetic narcotics.

[IconOfEvi]

MADE IN AMERICA, FUK YEH

Seriously though...people will abuse amnesty, as we've seen. If there is ANY hint of legalization, millions will try pouring in here before a general amnesty passes. Refugees will too - Europeans know this quite well. When you start opening the gate for a few, then it becomes permanently open. One has to protect their borders to have them.

We really SHOULD invade Mexico like we have done before when the situation gets out of hand

[Ordie]

We really SHOULD invade Mexico like we have done before when the situation gets out of hand

Perhaps we should ask China for another loan before we invade.
Making ourselves beholden to Beijing's terms.


One has to protect their borders to have them.

40% of undocumented immigrants arrive legally into this country. They just overstay the terms of thier visa.
Even if you build a a solid wall, we will still have undocumented immigrants arriving.

[armored_diplomacy]

Ironically its the American druggies that support the Narcos and thier violence. Shutting the border will not stop the Narcos profit steam. They'll just set up labs within the US to produce synthetic narcotics.


^
key concept there.
It´s all about money; that simple, and that complicted at the same time. As long as people keep demanding drugs and willing to pay a significant price for it, it will be present, with all the "extras" it implies: corruption (everywhere), violence, etc.

Nowadays, no society is free of this issue, but don´t expect narco-violence & activity to be reduced by a fence when on the other side they are called.

Mexico should be cleaned from inside first, wiping away corrupt and criminal elements from all levels of gov.; then move towards an effective campaing against violence and organized crime, conducted by very professional elements, fully supported by gov. and society (if every time they shot a gang member they will be prosecuted and accused of crimens, it won´t work). And working hard to achieve stability.

The main interested on it should be the US, ´cause it will sufer the consequences of a Mexican failure in security. But it should be an honest and effective support. After all, and regardless on wheter they like it or not, if they are not partners in the solution, they´ll share the negative outcomes anyway.



We really SHOULD invade Mexico like we have done before when the situation gets out of hand

:roll:

* cough * poppy fields in A-stan * cough *

Now seriously, that´s a big bad idea. But if you want to invade something, why don´t you "invade" your own soil and cut the demand of drugs? p-)
Hang those junky upper class teens !

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/24/us-officials-drug-demand-fuels-mexico-violence/

[Ordie]

^
The main interested on it should be the US, ´cause it will sufer the consequences of a Mexican failure in security. But it should be an honest and effective support. After all, and regardless on wheter they like it or not, if they are not partners in the solution, they´ll share the negative outcomes anyway.

Given the rehtoric about border protection, the US lacks any ability to track individuals leaving the country.

Given the that flow of cash and arms originate in the US, the DHS should consider setting up checkpoints along the border for people and cars leaving the country. Searches for arms and cash may mitigate the level of violence in Mexico.

[Henry's Fork]

Perhaps we should ask China for another loan before we invade.
Making ourselves beholden to Beijing's terms.

40% of undocumented immigrants arrive legally into this country. They just overstay the terms of thier visa.
Even if you build a a solid wall, we will still have undocumented immigrants arriving.

Or we can just do what China does and just invade and loot the living sh1t out of the country. Plenty of ultra rich Mexicans and businesses, ripe for the picking. Not many Golden Buddhas to melt down, but im sure the Catholic Church has plenty of gold and land to loot.

Stopping 60% is what i call a GREAT first step. Nothing personal O-dawg. Its the law. I have to follow all the laws here, even the stupid and unconstitutional ones. So does everyone else. Now i will go back into my corner and cry.

[Extobulite]

What will it take to save Mexico? Investment and tourism won't come without stability. So, how can the catastrophic violence that is destroying the country be ended?
Obviously, I'm no expert, because I was one of the people on this forum who predicted that decriminalizing drugs in Mexico would help bring the situation under control. As we can all see, it hasn't. So what is it going to take? Drug decriminalization here in the United States? Obviously, Mexico has no control over that, but it's a thought. Should Mexico form military and police death squads, to carry out extrajudicial killings of cartel members on sight? Should they permit Mexican citizens to purchase firearms, for self-defense? Should large bounties be placed on the heads of cartel members?
Tell me what you think.

US invasion. Incase you ddint know all these drug wars are artificially inseminated by the US, how do you think Mexican gangs get better arms and military training? So when the Mex government eventually fails US will send a peacekeeping force and essentially take over Mexico for cheap labor and etc.

This is a crazy conspiracy theory that i just made up, but it seems so plausible that it will make you think about it.

[jklv]

I think its up to their society. Mexico is ****ed up because of their society allowed it. They have the country that they deserve. Most of the people complain about corruption but most of them take part on it one way or another. How many of them actually follow the rules or the laws?. They complain about crime, well then don't give money to the police every time you break the rules.

Guns are not the solutions, education and jobs will have a better result in the long run. Do they actually care? I doubt it, otherwise they would be on the streets fighting for education and sack those corrupt leaders they have. Anyway I should stop there I can get into troubles for what I really believe.

My exact thoughts. Long I had thought about doing something to help Mexico, but every time I come here for the weekend or to visit my parents and see the generalized ideology of the people I say screw it. Mexico is ****ty because the people is ****ty, I feel bad for those few who are not and still live here.
It's sad to feel like this, each time I come back to Mexico I instantly feel depressed of how screwed up the culture is.

[deagle]

raising the poverty level won't decrease the appeal for drugs

the USA, with our elevated standards of living, still attracts drug use

and in hollywood, you know of celebs with piles of money, they still do drugs and get busted for them

you'd figure with all that money, they'd buy some smarts, and get other legal and expensive and frivolous things.

[Xomimilt]

Or we can just do what China does and just invade and loot the living sh1t out of the country. Plenty of ultra rich Mexicans and businesses, ripe for the picking. Not many Golden Buddhas to melt down, but im sure the Catholic Church has plenty of gold and land to loot.

Stopping 60% is what i call a GREAT first step. Nothing personal O-dawg. Its the law. I have to follow all the laws here, even the stupid and unconstitutional ones. So does everyone else. Now i will go back into my corner and cry.

Hasn't the U.S. done that already?

[jklv]

raising the poverty level won't decrease the appeal for drugs

the USA, with our elevated standards of living, still attracts drug use

and in hollywood, you know of celebs with piles of money, they still do drugs and get busted for them

you'd figure with all that money, they'd buy some smarts, and get other legal and expensive and frivolous things.

That has little to do with the root problems of Mexico. The current drug war is a last stand against the cartels as we finally have a president with enough balls to do so. However, it's the source code, the software, the mentality or culture of the people what **** up Mexico. They like (in general) to live like this, maybe not, but they are not willing to do something about it. They got the country they deserve, and those of us who don't fit in that atmosphere will simply leave. I feel pretty damn lucky that my parents are hard working honest people, and as soon as I can I'll get them out of the sinking ship.
I also had idealistic tendencies of oh we can fix Mexico this way, that way, etc. But it's not possible because in general Mexicans don't want to change.

[Xomimilt]

That has little to do with the root problems of Mexico. The current drug war is a last stand against the cartels as we finally have a president with enough balls to do so. However, it's the source code, the software, the mentality or culture of the people what **** up Mexico. They like (in general) to live like this, maybe not, but they are not willing to do something about it. They got the country they deserve, and those of us who don't fit in that atmosphere will simply leave. I feel pretty damn lucky that my parents are hard working honest people, and as soon as I can I'll get them out of the sinking ship.
I also had idealistic tendencies of oh we can fix Mexico this way, that way, etc. But it's not possible because in general Mexicans don't want to change.
First I was wondering if you speak Spanish? Second you are your own example, Third Did you see my Previous post?

[IconOfEvi]

I did note we should invade SOUTH America...specifically Argentina, Columbia, Venezuela, etc ;)

The delic women must be saved from Castro and Chavez!

[Mastermind]

Given the rehtoric about border protection, the US lacks any ability to track individuals leaving the country.

Given the that flow of cash and arms originate in the US, the DHS should consider setting up checkpoints along the border for people and cars leaving the country. Searches for arms and cash may mitigate the level of violence in Mexico.


I have to respectfully disagree. How is it that with all the resources focused on stopping the drugs, drugs are more prevalent successful smuggling than ever. Searching legal cars trying to legally cross the border for a few guns and bullets is not going to slow these drug bastids down one iota. all it will do is drive the price of smuggled guns ever higher making them a much more viable commodity for the smugglers.

No...the solution is legalization of the contraband, tax it and control it...kick the profit out from under the drugs and the problem is licked. both USA and Mexico should start immediately to offer all the hard core drugs at bargain basement prices to their people...set up"injection" centers where medical specialists will give you the best high ever for fifteen cents a hit....no questions asked.

[enemy crab]

thats odd, just 2 weeks ago i was in mexico, i did not see people falling dead in the street, stores being looted, buses on fire, babies crying for their mother on the streets, or anything trying to portray mexico as. mexico
is well on the way to fixing this problem.( which was basically caused by a drug hungry nation, )
what will it take to save mexico? quit forcing investigations on false human rights violations reported by people payed by narco terrorist groups.
just remember, next time your with your friends smoking marijuana that you are also contributing to the violence in mexico.
oh by the way that's a great idea, invading Mexico. if the US even gets close to defeating the Mexican armed forces, they will have a much more severe insurgency on their hands.

[Nuclear_Warrior]

I did note we should invade SOUTH America...specifically Argentina, Columbia, Venezuela, etc ;)

The delic women must be saved from Castro and Chavez!
No can't do. Your imperialist bull**** wont work here you pity Yankee, your Burgess power won't either. Capitalism is dead in Venezuela. Gloria a Chavez amo y senor de Venezuela

[WCF.KAS]

just remember, next time your with your friends smoking marijuana that you are also contributing to the violence in mexico.


All my mota is American Grown compadre.......p-)

[Ordie]

No...the solution is legalization of the contraband, tax it and control it...kick the profit out from under the drugs and the problem is licked. both USA and Mexico should start immediately to offer all the hard core drugs at bargain basement prices to their people...set up"injection" centers where medical specialists will give you the best high ever for fifteen cents a hit....no questions asked.

I agree with you.

(Gee......the planets must be aligned that we agreed on something.)

[G-AWZT]

Mexico has become what Colombia was in the 1980s. A civil war between the security/police vs. narco terrorists.

[Ordie]

Mexico has become what Colombia was in the 1980s. A civil war between the security/police vs. narco terrorists.

The only exception is that there is no political insurgency involved.

[G-AWZT]

I foresee this violence continuing for another 8-10 years unfortunately.

[jklv]

First I was wondering if you speak Spanish? Second you are your own example, Third Did you see my Previous post?
I speak Spanish. I lived in Tijuana for 19 years, and now I live in the US as an international student.
Which post?

[IconOfEvi]

No can't do. Your imperialist bull**** wont work here you pity Yankee, your Burgess power won't either. Capitalism is dead in Venezuela. Gloria a Chavez amo y senor de Venezuela

bUT LAS CHICAS. WHAT WILL WE EVER DO

[JJHH]

What will it take to save Mexico?

Less drug use in the US...

[Nuclear_Warrior]

bUT LAS CHICAS. WHAT WILL WE EVER DO

Las chicas belong to us Venezuelans,your Benjamins can go straight to hell!

[Xomimilt]

I speak Spanish. I lived in Tijuana for 19 years, and now I live in the US as an international student.
Which post?
Good, so you will understand the site and the vid.
Tijuana really? what part?

Previous post:
MEXICO INITIATIVE

Mexico Initiative is an unprecedented call in a historic year. It is a national project that seeks to rescue the dynamic and enterprising Mexico as well as recognize and celebrate the efforts of people with their initiatives, working for the Mexico that we all want.

Mexico Initiative aims to detonate, as part of the Bicentennial of Independence and the Centennial of the Mexican Revolution, a profound reflection on the responsibility of Mexicans in the course favorable to Mexico.

Mexico Initiative is a call to action. Therefore, the heart of this project is an invitation to such persons, institutions and organizations that have begun to transform the country to submit their social action projects or ecological already making a positive difference in your environment.

The best initiatives will be recognized and receive training and professional courses in addition to economic support to continue its work in Mexico.
For more info ( or your Idieas on how you Want Mexico to be in the Future) SITE IS IN SPANISH

http://iniciativamexico.org/#baseA (http://iniciativamexico.org/#baseA)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmQzqjfbwNc

[IconOfEvi]

Las chicas belong to us Venezuelans,your Benjamins can go straight to hell!

|\|EVER, WE WILL ANNEX VENEZUELA IF WE HAVE TO. Getting access to las chicas is priority numero uno!

[Russian_dude]

If US climate would have been more conductive to growing coca plant... we'd see all this stuff happening in the States... all because somebody decided a naturally growing plant is the devil.

[sreto]

A civil war between the security/police vs. narco terrorists.

Id say the issue is more complex than that considering the fact that certain elements in security/police are participants within the business the cartels conduct, you dont have to look far to find accusations that the Calderone government is actively supporting the Sinaloa cartel and the cases of corruption that keep growing and growing. I think the best thing that sums up the situation in Mexico are the words of a Serbian gangster of the 90's who said 'its a small pond full of crocodiles'

[Nuclear_Warrior]

|\|EVER, WE WILL ANNEX VENEZUELA IF WE HAVE TO. Getting access to las chicas is priority numero uno!

Well Benjamins for girls? Not a good deal. Sorry pal, try next time. Chicas will be ours forever so PISS OFF.

[Ordie]

Id say the issue is more complex than that considering the fact that certain elements in security/police are participants within the business the cartels conduct, you dont have to look far to find accusations that the Calderone government is actively supporting the Sinaloa cartel and the cases of corruption that keep growing and growing. I think the best thing that sums up the situation in Mexico are the words of a Serbian gangster of the 90's who said 'its a small pond full of crocodiles'

There can be parallels with the Mexican Revolution where factions fighting within factions was the norm.

[IconOfEvi]

Well Benjamins for girls? Not a good deal. Sorry pal, try next time. Chicas will be ours forever so PISS OFF.

No comprende senor! It can't be that way..

We will ANNEX. We must annex. You will have your Benjamins anyways. But we want las chicas. We will have las chicas either way.

[Ritual]

I think this could be the secret to a lasting world peace.

Hot womenz.

[Nuclear_Warrior]

No comprende senor! It can't be that way..

We will ANNEX. We must annex. You will have your Benjamins anyways. But we want las chicas. We will have las chicas either way.

No wonder you people are known as capitalis tpigs, imperist states of america, and also "opressors of freedom." You people will never have our Chicas, sorry bro but time to taste reality and stop dreaming. Your empire will crush before you people are able to anex us, try if you want.

[Nano]

I think this could be the secret to a lasting world peace.

Hot womenz.
It is probably a demand and supply issue that limits world peace. Inflation is a terrible problem when it comes to hot womenz. We definitely need to increase the supply of hot womenz to men ratio and help stabilize the economy. Someone call Obama and let him know how to hot fix our economy...

@Nuclear Warrior "all your chicas belong to us" Someone call Mr. Tenet he has a new medal of freedom if he can provide intel on hugo's evil plans to launch strikes against U.S cities.

[IconOfEvi]

Nuclear_Warrior, you can be first governor of the US State of Venezuela

Although really you don't matter :). Your country's female population however, is a national treasure that must be rescued, ahem, brought into the gold.

[Xomimilt]

Mexico's Future
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06MHD5zIGW0
What do you guys think about this?