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Kilgor
04-03-2010, 01:44 AM
Pope's preacher compares abuse row to anti-Semitism
Father Cantalamessa is the only person allowed to preach to the Pope
Pope Benedict's personal preacher has compared criticism of the pontiff and Church over child abuse to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews.

The Rev Raniero Cantalamessa was speaking at Good Friday prayers in St Peter's Basilica, attended by the Pope.

In his sermon, he quoted a Jewish friend as saying the accusations reminded him of the "more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism".

His comments angered Jewish groups and those representing abuse victims.

Father Cantalamessa said Jews throughout history had been the victims of "collective violence" and drew a comparison with recent attacks on the Roman Catholic Church.

He read the congregation part of a letter from a Jewish friend who said he was "following with disgust the violent and concentric attacks against the Church, the Pope...

"The use of stereotypes, the shifting of personal responsibility and guilt to a collective guilt remind me of the most shameful aspects of anti-Semitism," he quoted from the letter.

Father Cantalamessa, the preacher to the papal household, is the only person allowed to preach to the Pope.

The BBC's David Willey, in Rome, says the comments show the Church is continuing to defend itself rigorously and outspokenly against accusations of having systematically covered up cases of ****** abuse by priests in recent decades.

Vatican spokesman the Rev Federico Lombardi later contacted the Associated Press news agency to say Father Cantalamessa was not speaking as a Vatican official.

He said such a comparison could "lead to misunderstandings and is not an official position of the Catholic Church".

Church 'needs fresh start'
But Stephan Kramer, general-secretary of Germany's Central Council of Jews, described the remarks as offensive and repulsive.

"So far I haven't seen St Peter's burning, nor were there outbursts of violence against Catholic priests," he said.

"I'm without words. The Vatican is now trying to turn the perpetrators into victims."

Peter Isely, spokesman for the US victim support group Snap, said the sermon had been "reckless and irresponsible".

He said: "They're sitting in the papal palace, they're experiencing a little discomfort, and they're going to compare themselves to being rounded up or lined up and sent in cattle cars to Auschwitz?

"You cannot be serious."

Rabbi Gary Greenebaum, of the American Jewish Committee, called Father Cantalamessa's comments "an unfortunate use of language".

"The collective violence against the Jews resulted in the death of six million, while the collective violence spoken of here has not led to murder and destruction, but perhaps character assault," he said.

Pope accused

The Roman Catholic Church has been embroiled in fresh allegations of child *** abuse by priests, most recently in Germany.

The Pope has been accused of failing to take action against a suspected abuser during his tenure as archbishop of Munich - a claim the Vatican strongly denies.

Critics also say that when he was head of the Vatican office dealing with *** abuse, he did not act against a US priest who is thought to have abused some 200 deaf boys.

Thousands of pilgrims are in Rome for the Easter rituals.

Following the service at St Peter's Basilica, the Pope went to Rome's Colosseum for the Way of the Cross procession commemorating Christ's crucifixion.

During the procession, the Pope spoke briefly about the evening's religious observances before blessing the crowd, prompting cheers and some shouts of "Long live the Pope".

On Saturday, he is to lead an Easter vigil service in St Peter's and on Sunday he is due to deliver his traditional Urbi et Orbi - to the city and the world - message and blessing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8601084.stm

To call these people cockroaches and vermin would degrading to insects.

Mu-Meson
04-03-2010, 01:52 AM
What a moron. Doesn't he get a free pass because he quoted a "Jewish friend"?

JJHH
04-03-2010, 05:34 AM
What a desperate attempt to avoid criticism..

CMNot
04-03-2010, 06:24 AM
I don't recall when the Jews started sodomising children...?

Wimbly
04-03-2010, 07:27 AM
So, are you guys see nothing wrong with the wide spread generalizations and attacks on the catholic church by the media, for the actions of a few individuals? Why are we told thats wrong when it concerns Islam, but then the same people turn around and do it to Catholics?


I don't recall when the Jews started sodomising children...?

Ok, so you think all of Islam is to blame for world wide terrorism?

Telmar
04-03-2010, 08:52 AM
So, are you guys see nothing wrong with the wide spread generalizations and attacks on the catholic church by the media, for the actions of a few individuals? ...

What people are upset about is the fact the church officials tried to dissimulate the actions of those individuals.

We don't have to accept everything from the Vatican under the pretense that islamic terrorism exists.

LineDoggie
04-03-2010, 08:57 AM
So, are you guys see nothing wrong with the wide spread generalizations and attacks on the catholic church by the media, for the actions of a few individuals? Why are we told thats wrong when it concerns Islam, but then the same people turn around and do it to Catholics? Because Catholics arent going to track you down and behead you, or burn your embassy's down, or blow up your airliners, or walk into your subways and blow themselves up. Much better to bandwagon on the group that wont kill you for insulting their religion.

Telmar
04-03-2010, 09:00 AM
Because Catholics arent going to track you down and behead you, or burn your embassy's down, or blow up your airliners, or walk into your subways and blow themselves up. Much better to bandwagon on the group that wont kill you for insulting their religion.

Would you like them to?

seraosha
04-03-2010, 10:06 AM
An unfortunate comparison, but not too far from the mark...if you take the manufactured outrage in consideration. The unfair generalizations against all faiths...even here on these boards, illustrates the point.

What is frequently glossed over by the anti-church zealots is that these scumsucking pedophiles knowingly hid themselves among good people, to mask and hide their presence and to go undetected in their crimes...and when discovered, to again knowingly prey upon those set above them in the Clergy, lying and manipulating the system to be shuffled on with promises of repentance and knowingly preparing for the next posting. That an organization thousands of years old has a lot of inertia shouldn't come as a surprise...and calls for transparency in a faith based organization, especially one that still has trappings and dictates that originated in the Dark Ages, by definition is going to be hard to "modernize".

Hard, but not impossible.

I think everyone of those abusers should be dragged out into the street and shot, in public...and if any of their superiors covered up, knowingly allowing abuse to occur, they should be next up against the wall. But to make generalizations, unfair ones or even thoise that have truth to them, does a huge disservice to those that are merely humble in their work for the Lord, whom would never betray that trust, and now have to carry the burden that these literal "Wolves in sheeps clothing" have caused.

There is a real and concrete anti-religion bias on these boards...and against Christians and Catholics in particular. You yourself have an interesting avatar Telmar...tell me, did it ever occur to you to use the recently over-exposed "Mohammed in a bomb turbin" graphic? Or maybe some WWII era German propaganda poster depicting a Hasidic Jew as a rat, clutching at money?

Remove the beam from thine own eye, before telling me to remove the mote from my own.

Telmar
04-03-2010, 10:21 AM
... You yourself have an interesting avatar Telmar...tell me, did it ever occur to you to use the recently over-exposed "Mohammed in a bomb turbin" graphic? Or maybe some WWII era German propaganda poster depicting a Hasidic Jew as a rat, clutching at money?

Remove the beam from thine own eye, before telling me to remove the mote from my own.

I found that avatar on "the Onion" site with a fake ad depicting the Vatican as the Christian Disneyland. I found it funny, I don't find it offensive. Most Muslims don't have the freedom to do a fraction of what I'm doing but you know...

I would not use an offensive avatar against anyone.

And basically, I find that we agree. I'm not on an anti-church rant. I go to church regularly, even if it happens to be my "by accident" faith. However, one of the preasts in a old town Bratislava church started complaining about the pedophile enquiries, and I told my wife I refused to go listen to that guy again. I attend another church now.

The barbarity of islamic terrorists should not be a reason to hold to a lower standard the people of our own faith.

My two cents.

Snoshi
04-03-2010, 10:34 AM
So, are you guys see nothing wrong with the wide spread generalizations and attacks on the catholic church by the media, for the actions of a few individuals? Why are we told thats wrong when it concerns Islam, but then the same people turn around and do it to Catholics?
Umm.. I dont know who you are talking about.. But i hate religion in general, be it Islam, Judaism or Chirstianity.. All of them are moraly corrupt.


Ok, so you think all of Islam is to blame for world wide terrorism?
Is the Pope Catholic? And making the world safe for pedophiles?”

Glaz
04-03-2010, 11:02 AM
There is a real and concrete anti-religion bias on these boards...and against Christians and Catholics in particular. You yourself have an interesting avatar Telmar...tell me, did it ever occur to you to use the recently over-exposed "Mohammed in a bomb turbin" graphic? Or maybe some WWII era German propaganda poster depicting a Hasidic Jew as a rat, clutching at money?
I haven't noticed it that much on this board, but it's certainly palpable in popular culture. It's seems ok to bag on christianity, certainly more so than judaism, and especially more so than islam.

Bill Maher's movie, Religulous is a prime example. The dude certainly seems to not pull any punches on his show. I expected as much with his film...a thorough lashing of all religious dogmas. Well, he had the customary christianity bashing, and more christianity bashing, and yet more christianity bashing. In fact, nearly the whole film was christianity bashing, with a splash of judaism spanking. And then, almost as an afterthought, a dash (small small dash) of islam wrist slapping. Pretty cowardly, methinks.

kamaz
04-03-2010, 11:38 AM
ironic he mentions anti semitism considering the role Cath. church played in fostering anti-jewish attitudes in europe for centuries, with the Latin mass and Passion plays resulting in yearly pogroms for hundreds of years. And when the pope himself is found to have ignored and moved around pedophile monsters within his own organization and gets called on it, his little attack dogs start mouthing off about 'anti semitism'. Disgusting and pathetic.

if the pope was a CEO of any other company that was found to have done these cruel things to hundreds of children, he would be locked up long ago. But because he wears a funny hat and claims to talk to god, he gets a free pass.

Hollis
04-03-2010, 11:47 AM
I haven't noticed it that much on this board, but it's certainly palpable in popular culture. It's seems ok to bag on christianity, certainly more so than judaism, and especially more so than islam.

Bill Maher's movie, Religulous is a prime example. The dude certainly seems to not pull any punches on his show. I expected as much with his film...a thorough lashing of all religious dogmas. Well, he had the customary christianity bashing, and more christianity bashing, and yet more christianity bashing. In fact, nearly the whole film was christianity bashing, with a splash of judaism spanking. And then, almost as an afterthought, a dash (small small dash) of islam wrist slapping. Pretty cowardly, methinks.


It is a human trait for some to be overly brave when the person knows that nothing will be done to them because of their action(s).

CMNot
04-03-2010, 11:56 AM
Ok, so you think all of Islam is to blame for world wide terrorism?

How did you get Muslims from a story concerning Jews and Catholics?

****ing crackhead. Is there no "Obama be stealing mah gunz" news story to salivate over today?

Glaz
04-03-2010, 11:58 AM
It is a human trait for some to be overly brave when the person knows that nothing will be done to them because of their action(s).
Sometimes that backfires. One example comes to mind...




http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20photo%20negatives/2003%20news%20phot%20negatives/March%2003%20pho%20neg/cartoon.jpg

Noons86
04-03-2010, 03:43 PM
So, are you guys see nothing wrong with the wide spread generalizations and attacks on the catholic church by the media, for the actions of a few individuals? Why are we told thats wrong when it concerns Islam, but then the same people turn around and do it to Catholics?



Ok, so you think all of Islam is to blame for world wide terrorism?


You're committing the same fallacy that the preacher did, who, by the way, the pope is distancing himself from. The critics are not saying that the church is chock-full of pedophiles. Statistics show that pedophilia in the priesthood is actually about the same as the general population.

The criticism is that the church, rather than trying to protect children, always tried to bury the ****** abuse by sending pedophile priests to other parishes where they could prey on more children, and didn't say anything to the new parishoners.

California Joe
04-03-2010, 04:57 PM
I was raised Catholic. I think the Church is unbelievably misreading the feelings of the general public, Catholic and non Catholic alike about this entire issue. Crimes against children are probably the most egregious form of crime. The Popes, as a heads of state should have issued an edict that it was a death penalty offense. Period. The climate of "protect the church" at all costs in order to avoid scandal has led to this current state of affairs and it's really unacceptable on any level. It reeks of conspiracy and cover up. It negates the good works of millions of people. It has given the entire religion a black eye and turned it into fodder for anti religion cheap shot artists...

All that's happened is the years of denial put off some inevitable reckoning. If these filthy, scheming, subhuman animals that preyed on their parishoners had been dealt with harshly on a case by case basis, within the church, instead of given a pass when the events actually transpired it would have seemed as though justice was being done. I think there should be an internal police force that does nothing but slot these pricks. This will not go away.

annihilation
04-03-2010, 04:58 PM
Its the church attempt to deflect any criticism in over it poor handling. If they want the people's support then maybe they should hand over all those who abused children instead of pretending of being above the law. The church made this mess by covering it up instead of working with local authorities to stomp this out as soon as it was discovered. They have only themselves to blame and cast a shadow on the whole church regardless. Much like the terrorist cast a shadow on the whole of Islam. The lack of action or attempt to cover up makes it look as it is condoned by the whole while the truth is far from it.