Berlin's forgotten bunkers evoke violent past

[2RHPZ]

Berlin's forgotten bunkers evoke violent past
By David Crossland

Beneath Berlin's streets lies a forgotten world of bunkers and tunnels that tell tales of cruelty, suffering, escape and espionage.

Foreign visitors seeking remnants of the city's violent 20th century history search in vain for two of the main attractions -- the Wall and Adolf Hitler's bunker.

The Wall was torn down, save for a few short crumbling segments, and Hitler's bunker is covered by a car park.

But some of the 1,000 World War Two bunkers are intact and accessible, their echoing corridors, propaganda posters and instructions in Gothic script giving a sense of a past most Berliners would prefer to forget.

Luminous paint strips mark the way to emergency exits and cranks for manual air filters jut from the grey concrete. In one bunker, the walls are corroded by quicklime used to cover the dead from street fighting in the weeks before Berlin fell.

One bunker, next to the Gesundbrunnen underground station in central Berlin, contains suitcases, helmets, uniforms, bunk beds and a trove of items gathered from sites by members of the "Berlin Underground Association," which explores bunkers.

The Gesundbrunnen bunker was meant for ordinary citizens and is one of two sites where the association, made up of unpaid enthusiasts, conducts guided tours.

NAZI SHRINES?

The bunkers of the Nazi elite, located under the city centre between the Brandenburg Gate and Potsdamer Platz, in what used to be the Cold War wasteland between East and West Berlin, have been sealed for fear they may become neo-Nazi shrines.

"The city would rather not deal with its Nazi past buried in the ground," said Dietmar Arnold, a local historian who has explored the bunker system and leads tours.

"But we've noticed a lot of tourists come here and ask 'Where is the Berlin Wall?' You can hardly show them anything. Then they ask, 'Where was Hitler's bunker?'"

Arnold said it was "scandalous" that none of the city's bunkers had been placed under heritage protection. It would even be worth re-opening Hitler's bunker, he said.

The one-storey bunker measuring 15 by 20 metres (49 by 65 feet) lies underneath a car park in front of a modern block of flats close to the Holocaust memorial now under construction.

Communist authorities re-opened it in 1985, destroyed its four-metre (13 feet) thick ceiling, and buried it again.

Opening the bunker would remove the mystery surrounding it, said Arnold. "If you combine it with a proper historical exhibition and have someone at the door to make sure only the right sort of people get in, it could be a significant site."

Petra Reetz, spokeswoman for the city's planning department, defended the decision to keep the bunker closed. She said: "We don't want a site where someone gets the idea to put up a candle on Hitler's birthday."

SS "COMICS"

The so-called "Driver's Bunker" nearby, built for Hitler's chauffeurs, was uncovered in 1990 during a search for unexploded World War Two bombs.

It contains giant wall paintings of SS troops holding large black shields to protect blonde women and children.

"Those SS comics are a curiosity and were documented and photographed. We consulted historians and concluded this was not of historic value," said Reetz. So the city filled the bunker with sand and sealed it.

Reetz denied Berlin's city government was ignoring its past by neglecting the bunkers.

"Bunkers make an important statement -- if you start a war don't be surprised if it comes back to you," she said. "But Berlin is penniless and has to make priorities. Besides, history stares you in the face above ground everywhere in this city."

By the end of the war the city, the most heavily bombed in Germany, could protect up to 800,000 people in its bunkers -- taking into account they were always three times overfilled.

Most of Berlin's more than three million people had to make do with less safe cellars. Bunkers were out of bounds to slave workers, of whom there were at least 200,000 in Berlin.

Civilian bombing victims during the war, estimated at between 18,000 and 50,000, were relatively low. Good air defence, strict Prussian building standards and wide boulevards prevented the firestorms that killed many tens of thousands in Dresden and Hamburg.

Crammed into bunkers as the bombs rained down, Berliners resorted to grim humour. "They would say Berlin was the only town in Germany where you could take the subway from the western to the eastern front," said bunker guide Juergen Mueller.

After the war, the Allies destroyed 80 percent of the bunkers under a programme to demilitarise Germany.

But the Cold War brought new digging. Arnold knows of 30 escape tunnels from East to West Berlin, eight of them successful. Most were betrayed to East Germany's Stasi secret police.

Spies also built tunnels during the Cold War. The most famous, a $30 million U.S.-British project in 1954-55, ran 443 metres (1,453 feet) from a U.S. radar station in the Rudow district of Berlin to the Soviet sector.

Codenamed "Operation Gold," the aim was to tap Soviet telephone lines. It appeared to be a success initially, until it emerged that a British double agent, George Blake, had betrayed the project early on.

[LeMat]

Underground city is also under polish city of Wroclaw (in german - Breslau). Probably under Olimpic Stadium there is underground airport! These tunnels are flooded but probably there is some way to make them dry. There were many tries to find how to do it. But in most causes people who tried to do this never returned on surface.

[Herrmannek]

Underground city is also under polish city of Wroclaw (in german - Breslau). Probably under Olimpic Stadium there is underground airport! These tunnels are flooded but probably there is some way to make them dry. There were many tries to find how to do it. But in most causes people who tried to do this never returned on surface.

THose are BS :) we have few CD bunkers and quite long drain pipes but thats all not more than 5000 thousands people can fit in those shelters, Wroclaw isn't on rock but on sand and has very high level of ground waters, thats why we don't have chances for metro, or other deeply put constructions...its almost impossible to build any tunnels here without destroying things with are above and keeping them dry is another big problem... We also has quite malaric climat as we are in hot centre of Poland and have very wet air...

[LeMat]

Underground city is also under polish city of Wroclaw (in german - Breslau). Probably under Olimpic Stadium there is underground airport! These tunnels are flooded but probably there is some way to make them dry. There were many tries to find how to do it. But in most causes people who tried to do this never returned on surface.

THose are BS :) we have few CD bunkers and quite long drain pipes but thats all not more than 5000 thousands people can fit in those shelters, Wroclaw isn't on rock but on sand and has very high level of ground waters, thats why we don't have chances for metro, or other deeply put constructions...its almost impossible to build any tunnels here without destroying things with are above and keeping them dry is another big problem... We also has quite malaric climat as we are in hot centre of Poland and have very wet air...

I`m not so quite. I was on a meeting with Wołoszański one day and he told many interesting things.
Also one profesor from university told to my friend (he study a history) about that. He told that after WWII he saw an alevator on Dworzec Glowny. There were 7 or 8 buttons for underground levels!
Also look on this huge bunkers on Legnicka and so on. These are made from very week materials. To week to be good bunkers...

[Herrmannek]

Are you from Wrocław? I was very interested in that topic so time ago, but every serious source(from not flying sourcers believers) where sceptical about that whole tunel things.. After war there was quite big number of shalow tunels betwen buldings dig by defenders and some of them could still be not found or buried as for big train capable shelters I doubt.

Bunker on Legnicka street:
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003395.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003394.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003396.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/11/11418.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/11/11417.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/4/004630.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/1/001018.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/1/001014.jpg

Odra's Bank Train Station:
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9376.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9377.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/13/13273.jpg


Grunt's Forts POlanowice
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9801.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9802.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9803.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10539.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10540.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10541.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10542.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10543.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10544.jpg


Helper forts:
a)Western Park
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/11/11007.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/11/11008.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/11/11009.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/11/11010.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003194.jpg
b)Strzegomska Street
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9046.jpg
c)Dębowskiego Strrt
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/8/8037.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/5/005231.jpg
d)Kwidzynska Street
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/5/005231.jpg

Aerial Shelter, South Park:
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9857.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9858.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9859.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9860.jpg


Random Forts,shelters & reinforcments:
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9804.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003927.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/8/8796.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10828.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10983.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/7/007117.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/4/004508.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/4/004623.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9115.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/7/7738.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/6/006255.jpg


"Luftschutz"s of underbuilding bomb shelter:
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/8/8520.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/8/8781.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/8/8783.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/9/9043.jpg

Destroyed one, Osobowice:
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/2/002911.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/2/002907.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/2/002908.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/2/002909.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/2/002910.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/2/002912.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/2/002913.jpg

Robotnicza Street:
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/2/002913.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10311.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10312.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10313.jpg

Grunt's innert shelter, Grabiszynska Street:
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/12/12128.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/12/12808.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/12/12129.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/12/12130.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/12/12131.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/12/12132.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/12/12134.jpg

Bunker, Ładna Street
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/11/11065.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/8/8060.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003893.jpg

I.St.-7 (Infanterie Stellungen)
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10528.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10529.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10530.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10531.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10532.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10533.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10534.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10535.jpg

I.St.-4 (Infanterie Stellungen) Fuchsberg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003748.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003749.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003750.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003751.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003752.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003753.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003754.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003755.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/3/003756.jpg

Shelter, Bystrzycka Street, destroyed:
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/7/7735.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/7/7736.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/7/7737.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/7/7740.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/7/7741.jpg
http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/7/7742.jpg

ufff....
Stolen from http://hydral.com.pl/neo/test.php?obiekt=876

[Freibier]

Wow, cool pics!
Thanks Hermann woot

[Herrmannek]

BTW most of that shelters, esspecialy forts are earlier than WWII

[perdurabo]

BTW under my city Jelenia Góra there is almoust underground city :lol: few years ago we discovered tunnels under old city that are from midleages and we have meany shelters connested to eachother from nazi times also near there is dam with lake and there is nazi underground factory that was testing small u-bots and weapons for them, there! (and i live in mountines quite far from sea)
also there is near complex Reise realy big underground bunkers connected never fully compleated... Lots of mysteries here in Sudety.

[LeMat]

http://hydral.com.pl/neo/foto/10/10828.jpg

This is place of my childhood. I remember that I was playing in that park. I was riding down this hill with my bike or sledge. :)
I remember that when I was 4 or 5 years old I was riding down on my sledge with my father and we rammed some guy who wasn`t fast enough to jump aside :) He made a somersault in the air!! rofl
Thhe first "log" from the right side of bunker isn`t a tree (but it looks like a tree). It is a kind of mast.


BTW Do you know that there is a subway in Wroclaw? Not long - from Urzad Wojewodzki building to some other goverment building. It is part of old nazi tunnels used by communists as security exit if people will attack them (like in 1956 or 1970). [/list]

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

also there is near complex Reise realy big underground bunkers connected never fully compleated... Lots of mysteries here in Sudety.

Aaaah, Riese... X-files guys are saying that Nazis produced flying saucers there :D
And yeah, south-western Poland is full of ex-German bunkers, tunnels etc... damn, why I live in the opposite part of the country?

ps. we should make a bunker-pics thread :)

[kinghk]

nice pics herrmanek. Keep em coming.

Check out this site.

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/index.shtml

[Herrmannek]

Some of you guys should bring MRU pics... I want to go there but don't have mates interested in sightseeing of that places :( and going there alone is suicide....

[perdurabo]

BTW Do you know that there is a subway in Wroclaw? Not long - from Urzad Wojewodzki building to some other goverment building. It is part of old nazi tunnels used by communists as security exit if people will attack them (like in 1956 or 1970). [/list]
could you tell us more? any data? pics?

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Some of you guys should bring MRU pics... I want to go there but don't have mates interested in sightseeing of that places :( and going there alone is suicide....


Yeah, I want to go there too, but live in the opposite part of the country and lack of funds ;)

Localisation:
http://www.mru.pl/polozenie/Polska.gif

MRU- Miedzyrzecki Rejon Umocniony, or Festungsfront Oder-Warthe-Bogen - OWB. The construction works started in 1934, but after the conquering of Poland were stopped. Resumed in 1944, when Soviet armies advanced. Soviets broken thedefence line on 31st January 1945, after 10 days of fighting.
MRU is the biggest fortification line in todays Poland, it has hundreds of forts, bunkers, antitank barriers, and almost 34km of underground tunnels.

http://zbyszekw.mega.com.pl/Image11.JPG

http://zbyszekw.mega.com.pl/Image13.JPG

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/kopuly.jpg

http://www.kalisz.mm.pl/~kolik/MRU%20ver.2/Galeria/zeby%20smoka/350x249/zebysmoka006.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/b_kopula.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/724.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/717.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/zapora.jpg

http://www.chris.px.pl/pic/mru/2002/kopula_717_2002_5_29a.jpg

http://www.fortyfikacje.host.sk/zdjecia/mru18.jpg

Tunnels:
http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/nord_sch.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/721_szyb.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic715_sch1.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/swieczk1.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/mru_.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/korytarz.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/schill3.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/ka_swie2.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/swie_a3.jpg

http://www.kalisz.mm.pl/~kolik/MRU%20ver.2/Galeria/podziemia/INNE/350x249/podziemiainne006.jpg

http://www.kalisz.mm.pl/~kolik/MRU%20ver.2/Galeria/inneobiekty/350x249/inne004.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/713_scho.jpg

http://fanthom.math.put.poznan.pl/~pawlik/pic/sw_schil.jpg

[LeMat]

BTW Do you know that there is a subway in Wroclaw? Not long - from Urzad Wojewodzki building to some other goverment building. It is part of old nazi tunnels used by communists as security exit if people will attack them (like in 1956 or 1970). [/list]
could you tell us more? any data? pics?

Sorry but no. I have seen it only once in TV Regionalna.

[Herrmannek]

BTW Do you know that there is a subway in Wroclaw? Not long - from Urzad Wojewodzki building to some other goverment building. It is part of old nazi tunnels used by communists as security exit if people will attack them (like in 1956 or 1970). [/list]
could you tell us more? any data? pics?

Sorry but no. I have seen it only once in TV Regionalna.
I watched that program... If this was that guy with small beard fuking to everything in city like buss stops, trash bins etc?(Alternativa or sumthing like that?) Part you watched was broadcasted in 1 april :) .... Tunel you have seen him walking is railway tunel ~south Wrocław, can't rember name of that place it was long time I have been there.... Whole part was dedicated to undergound Wrocław....

[perdurabo]

I watched that program... If this was that guy with small beard fuking to everything in city like buss stops, trash bins etc?(Alternativa or sumthing like that?) Part you watched was broadcasted in 1 april :) .... Tunel you have seen him walking is railway tunel ~south Wrocław, can't rember name of that place it was long time I have been there.... Whole part was dedicated to undergound Wrocław....
intresting. more info?

[Herrmannek]

I watched that program... If this was that guy with small beard fuking to everything in city like buss stops, trash bins etc?(Alternativa or sumthing like that?) Part you watched was broadcasted in 1 april :) .... Tunel you have seen him walking is railway tunel ~south Wrocław, can't rember name of that place it was long time I have been there.... Whole part was dedicated to undergound Wrocław....
intresting. more info?

It was hoax(Prima aprilis), metro he was talking about supoused to be from "state hall(urząd wojewódzki) to todays Physics bilding of universtity(previous house of the party) and mean of transportation should be normal blue tram
:cantbeli:

[perdurabo]

I watched that program... If this was that guy with small beard fuking to everything in city like buss stops, trash bins etc?(Alternativa or sumthing like that?) Part you watched was broadcasted in 1 april :) .... Tunel you have seen him walking is railway tunel ~south Wrocław, can't rember name of that place it was long time I have been there.... Whole part was dedicated to undergound Wrocław....
intresting. more info?

It was hoax(Prima aprilis), metro he was talking about supoused to be from "state hall(urząd wojewódzki) to todays Physics bilding of universtity(previous house of the party) and mean of transportation should be normal blue tram
:cantbeli:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
good joke

[Herrmannek]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
good joke
I almost believed him :cantbeli: I hate such jokes :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

[Metak]

Very interesting topic! Here are pics of WWII submarine bunker in Serbia&Montenegro which is now used for electronic music festival:
http://www.spraci.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album16&id=Entrance_2003_Day_2_10
http://www.spraci.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album11&id=e7

[Freibier]

Very interesting topic! Here are pics of WWII submarine bunker in Serbia&Montenegro which is now used for electronic music festival:
http://www.spraci.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album16&id=Entrance_2003_Day_2_10
http://www.spraci.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album11&id=e7
Seems you put those bunkers to good use, Cool ! woot

[Herrmannek]

Nein... God use is restore, equip, and sit waiting for end of tha world :) ...

I heve question to you Freiber.. I saw once in your free satelite TV, program about eurpoean atomic shelters.. One of the showed shelter was realy huge one, located in mountain with had pair of normal trafic or rail tunell underneath and entrance to it were in that tunnels. Do you know what tunel it is...from what I understood it could be located in country like Austria, Switzerland or Germany or other alp country...?

sumthing like that:

http://img12.exs.cx/img12/9546/schron.png

[LeMat]

BTW Do you know that there is a subway in Wroclaw? Not long - from Urzad Wojewodzki building to some other goverment building. It is part of old nazi tunnels used by communists as security exit if people will attack them (like in 1956 or 1970). [/list]
could you tell us more? any data? pics?

Sorry but no. I have seen it only once in TV Regionalna.
I watched that program... If this was that guy with small beard fuking to everything in city like buss stops, trash bins etc?(Alternativa or sumthing like that?) Part you watched was broadcasted in 1 april :) .... Tunel you have seen him walking is railway tunel ~south Wrocław, can't rember name of that place it was long time I have been there.... Whole part was dedicated to undergound Wrocław....

No it was in "Weekend Weekend" on some sunday. So maybe it wasn`t a joke? Or maybe it was a program about jokes in TV but I didn`t know it??

[Herrmannek]

No it was in "Weekend Weekend" on some sunday. So maybe it wasn`t a joke? Or maybe it was a program about jokes in TV but I didn`t know it??

I'm sure if that would be true it wouldn't be keept in secret and tickets would be sold for sure :)

[Freibier]

Nein... God use is restore, equip, and sit waiting for end of tha world :) ...

I heve question to you Freiber.. I saw once in your free satelite TV, program about eurpoean atomic shelters.. One of the showed shelter was realy huge one, located in mountain with had pair of normal trafic or rail tunell underneath and entrance to it were in that tunnels. Do you know what tunel it is...from what I understood it could be located in country like Austria, Switzerland or Germany or other alp country...?

sumthing like that:

http://img12.exs.cx/img12/9546/schron.png
One of those ? :
http://www.rheinhit.de/bunkerland/id8.htm
http://www.kreis.aw-online.de/kvar/VT/hjb2000/hjb2000.39.htm
I know that switzerland also had huge bunkers like you describe but I know very little about it

[Herrmannek]

Dunno I saw cut through plan of it similiar to that one ;)
http://heaven.wz.cz/fallout/img/town/vault13.jpg
Thanks for the links esspecialy last one because i havent seen it before and my old links got lost at last format :) :cantbeli:

[Freibier]

Dunno I saw cut through plan of it similiar to that one ;)
http://heaven.wz.cz/fallout/img/town/vault13.jpg
Thanks for the links esspecialy last one because i havent seen it before and my old links got lost at last format :) :cantbeli:
That looks a lot like the secret nazi base in Antarctica.
I could give you more information on that but would have to shoot you afterwards :P