Russia Again Refuses Iraq Troop Request

[J-10]

Russia Again Refuses Iraq Troop Request
Russia Restates Refusal to Send Troops to Iraq, Instead Considering to Restructure Debt
The Associated Press

MOSCOW July 24, 2004 — Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said on Saturday that Baghdad would like to have Russian peacekeepers, but the Kremlin restated its refusal to become involved in the messy conflict.
"We need Russian peacekeepers," Zebari said, according to the Interfax news agency.

But Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Moscow had no intention of becoming involved.

"This issue wasn't looked into," Lavrov said at a news conference. "There are no such plans."

Lavrov said that Russia was willing to contribute to by considering a restructuring of its multibillion dollar debt through the Paris Club of creditor nations and offering economic assistance and personnel training.

"Such contribution would be no less significant than that by the participants in the multinational forces," Lavrov said at a news conference.

President Vladimir Putin said last year that Russia in principle would be willing to write off more than half of Iraq's $8 billion debt to Moscow.

Throughout this week, Russian diplomats were busy dismissing recent speculation that Russia would contribute troops in exchange for U.S. assurances that Russian companies could regain lost ground in Iraq.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko said this week that Russia continues to believe that the U.S. invasion of Iraq was a mistake and that no possible incentives could persuade the Kremlin to send soldiers to Iraq.

Russia recently evacuated hundreds of energy workers from Iraq, where they were rebuilding power stations, after several abductions and other attacks. Russian officials said they could only return to Iraq after security situation had stabilized.

"We very much want Russian energy companies to return to Iraq to continue building four power generating facilities," Zebari said Saturday, according to Interfax. "Of course, we understand that a secure environment needs to be created."

The visit, in which Zebari also was to meet with Security Council head Igor Ivanov, was the first trip to Moscow by a senior Iraqi official since the U.S. returned sovereignty to Baghdad late last month.
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[GrantT]

They've already got their hands full with one muslim country, i'm quite sure they wouldn't want another to deal with. In my opinion sending Russian forces would increase the tensions between multi-national forces and the people of Iraq.

[anonymous individual]

They've already got their hands full with one muslim country, i'm quite sure they wouldn't want another to deal with. In my opinion sending Russian forces would increase the tensions between multi-national forces and the people of Iraq.

I agree.

[Helios X]

And plus the Russian military is in very bad shape.

[MEGR]

Oh well.

[Abbyy]

And plus the Russian military is in very bad shape.

:)
Ukranian army even in worse shape man :)

[LeMat]

USA started this war so now it is USA problem. I can`t see any point why russian soldiers should risk their lives for US businesses.
In Poland we say "Nawarzyles piwa to je wypij" - "You have brewen a beer so you drink it yourself now".

[American Patriot]

USA started this war so now it is USA problem. I can`t see any point why russian soldiers should risk their lives for US businesses.
In Poland we say "Nawarzyles piwa to je wypij" - "You have brewen a beer so you drink it yourself now".

It's the Polish proverb guy!

[LeMat]

It's the Polish proverb guy!

So you think that I should blindly support USA?
Don`t think! Support Uncle Sam!! Is it your point of view?

[MEGR]

There are Polish troops in Iraq too. So jeez I guess Poland is trying to get rich too.

[garyfanclub]

That proverb sucks, because if you brew beer, it's highly likely that your buddies are going to drink it too..

[Viktor_s]

Think a bit more globally. Russia was always against intervention in Iraq (i use the mild term), so if Russia is to send the troops then that would send a clear message for others to follow such as France Germany.

What it seems that USA is trying to get more troops from other countries using the pupeeteer government.

[SeanAshi]

They have their own problems in Chechnya that are not solved yet.

[Romulus]

Do I care?





Nope

[BadKarma26]

Are we forgetting about the lucrative contracts Russia had with Iraq before this war? Or how about every weapon the Iraqis are fighting us with are Russian made? My guess is Russia is still bitter that they won't be making any profit out of Iraq anymore.

[CRAZY MERC]

To BadKarma26:
Wow, how did you get to know so much about international trade? Obviously, I still have a lot to learn.

[RuSoKaR]

MOSCOW July 24, 2004 — Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said on Saturday that Baghdad would like to have Russian peacekeepers, but the Kremlin restated its refusal to become involved in the messy conflict.
"We need Russian peacekeepers," Zebari said, according to the Interfax news agency.

why would they want Russian peacekeepers in Iraq anyways? or the current forces are not enought :roll:

But I guess they just want Russian peacekeepers there so Russian energetic conpanies would come back and rebuild Iraq, but they will comeback and finish they job anyways, but only after there will be a little bit more control over situation woot

[SeanAshi]

why would they want Russian peacekeepers in Iraq anyways? or the current forces are not enought Apparently not but you Russians just worry about Chechnya, To CRAZY MERC, BadKarma26 is correct.

[CRAZY MERC]

Correct about what?

[GazB]

Putin already agreed to wipe some of Iraqs prewar debt to Russia... more than many western states did for Russia.

This occupation is currently under US control basically. If it was under UN control then the Russians might send some troops, but I very much doubt they would send forces to Iraq now or in the near future.

What happened to Bush's claim that if the UN said no to the planned attack the US could do this alone?

The coaltiion is becoming the coalition of the coerced and bribed and bullied.

[BadKarma26]

We did do it alone. And if we were assholes we would pack up and leave. Mission accomplished. But no; we are a good country and we are staying to try to rebuild the country that has been ravaged by decades of war and one of the biggest f@gs ever to govern a nation.

[RuSoKaR]

decades of war? :cantbeli:

It was spoce to UN with whos power Saddam should have been removed, not with the US military, or US goverment have plans for Iraq from which it would get profit. (or there is something that I don't know :roll: )

[Deuterium]

decades of war? :cantbeli:

It was spoce to UN with whos power Saddam should have been removed, not with the US military, or US goverment have plans for Iraq from which it would get profit. (or there is something that I don't know :roll: )

The only "profit" the US will receive will be, in time, a stable DEMOCRACY in the Middle East.

[DPGLAW]

Why would Russia want anything to do with helping Iraq now, I mean they can't make anymore money by making an abortion out of the Oil-for-Food program along with the French...:) LOL

[Secret Squirrel]

decades of war? :cantbeli:

It was spoce to UN with whos power Saddam should have been removed, not with the US military, or US goverment have plans for Iraq from which it would get profit. (or there is something that I don't know :roll: )

The only "profit" the US will receive will be, in time, a stable DEMOCRACY in the Middle East.

Do you really believe this? Already theres a new market for military hardware.

[RuSoKaR]

Well it is not really Russia who is making profit, it is Russian companies, They are the ones who were rebuilding Iraqi power plants, plus a lot of other companies have deals with Iraq.

[Zarathustra]

They have their own problems in Chechnya that are not solved yet.


you call that "problems" ???
it's worst that you are saying man, they have lost the first chechenya war during the 90's and they will certainly lost this one ! :roll:
chechens rebels are more stronger than any "al zarqawi", believe, me.
never heard of shamil bassajev ???

[RuSoKaR]

It doesn't really matter if they have their own problem they are not going into Iraq, while Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari asked for Russian peackeepers in Iraq, and the fact that he asked doesn't seem to be real...

[Abbyy]

decades of war? :cantbeli:

It was spoce to UN with whos power Saddam should have been removed, not with the US military, or US goverment have plans for Iraq from which it would get profit. (or there is something that I don't know :roll: )

The only "profit" the US will receive will be, in time, a stable DEMOCRACY in the Middle East.

Don't start this democracy **** again. We already seen your "democracy" in ethnic clean Kosovo and recently in Georgia.

Regular elections and pro-western media aren't synonyms of democracy.

[LeMat]

The only "profit" the US will receive will be, in time, a stable DEMOCRACY in the Middle East.

I don`t think so. It is imposiible to learn democracy in 1 or 2 years. In that part of world there were no democracy. It needs generations to learn people democracy. Especialy when they haven`t any democratics point in history.

[Abbyy]

The only "profit" the US will receive will be, in time, a stable DEMOCRACY in the Middle East.

I don`t think so. It is imposiible to learn democracy in 1 or 2 years. In that part of world there were no democracy. It needs generations to learn people democracy. Especialy when they haven`t any democratics point in history.

And this statement is correct too.

[GrantT]

Already theres a new market for military hardware.

You mean military companies are doing well during a war? Stop the presses!

[Secret Squirrel]

Already theres a new market for military hardware.

You mean military companies are doing well during a war? Stop the presses!

It has nothing to do with a current war/internal security situation. Simply put, who do you think is going to arm the new Iraqi army? ;)

[GrantT]

Simply put, who do you think is going to arm the new Iraqi army?

From what i've seen so far, some Russian guy named Kalashnikov. :roll:

I don't quite understand your attitude on this; do you think that the US should not be involved in rebuilding both the country and the armed forces?

[aartamen]

I don`t think so. It is imposiible to learn democracy in 1 or 2 years. In that part of world there were no democracy. It needs generations to learn people democracy. Especialy when they haven`t any democratics point in history.

1 or 2 years may be too little, the other point is plain wrong. The number of states where the populace elects the government now vs. 50 years ago is tremendously higher. What do you mean by "generations"?
Japan is the most drastic example where they did not need "generations" and did not have any "democratic points in history." If there are any surviving democracies in Africa.
The US did not have democracy or history of it in 1775, in 13 years there was a Constitution.

[Secret Squirrel]

Simply put, who do you think is going to arm the new Iraqi army?

From what i've seen so far, some Russian guy named Kalashnikov. :roll:

I don't quite understand your attitude on this; do you think that the US should not be involved in rebuilding both the country and the armed forces?

If you dont understand my attitude then maybe you should go back and look at the original point by another member. Incase you missed it...


The only "profit" the US will receive will be, in time, a stable DEMOCRACY in the Middle East.

Do you honestly believe thats the only "profit" that's going to emerge? I'm not condemning it, but its naive to think that the only "profit" thats going to come from Iraq is going to be a stable democracy. ;)

[East]

Correct about what?

...everything he said you ignorant fool.

[Secret Squirrel]

I don`t think so. It is imposiible to learn democracy in 1 or 2 years. In that part of world there were no democracy. It needs generations to learn people democracy. Especialy when they haven`t any democratics point in history.

1 or 2 years may be too little, the other point is plain wrong. The number of states where the populace elects the government now vs. 50 years ago is tremendously higher. What do you mean by "generations"?
Japan is the most drastic example where they did not need "generations" and did not have any "democratic points in history." If there are any surviving democracies in Africa.
The US did not have democracy or history of it in 1775, in 13 years there was a Constitution.

Now turn your attention to the Middle East. Do you really think it's going to be a quick transition, surrounded by religious laws and customs, to democracy? In some cases, you're trying to remove religious "power" from certain individuals and instill that "power" in a representative government. Is democracy even possible in Iraq? Probably but i dont think it's going be a reflection of western democracy.

[LeMat]

1 or 2 years may be too little, the other point is plain wrong. The number of states where the populace elects the government now vs. 50 years ago is tremendously higher. What do you mean by "generations"?
Japan is the most drastic example where they did not need "generations" and did not have any "democratic points in history." If there are any surviving democracies in Africa.
The US did not have democracy or history of it in 1775, in 13 years there was a Constitution.

Japan has the monarchy which was a heart of democracy. Democracy was build on old system. In Iraq everything was destroyed. Also it is islam. Islam is very antidemocratic.
And USA - but you have people from GB, France, and other countries which had democratic elements. And they didn`t have "bad" history.
In Iraq there is antidemocratic islam, antidemocratic countries around amd no democratic history.

[GrantT]

Incase you missed it...

Well I know your attitude towards the US and its foreign policy but I would have liked you to give me an explanation as to why you think that the US shouldn't help the Iraqi armed forces with new equipment.

[aartamen]

How's having an emperor whom people considered to be a God, or very close to it conducive to developing a democracy? The first time a Japanese emperor directly spoke to his subjects was when he declared the capitulation. Yeah "by the people, for the people". They were all thinking about how to best kill themselves for him. Very democratic foundation indeed.

Iraq has a very good chance of becoming a democratic country. Which is not to say it's going to be a happy perfect place. Democratic countries have tons of problems too. Just look at South and Central Americas.

[Secret Squirrel]

Incase you missed it...

Well I know your attitude towards the US and its foreign policy but I would have liked you to give me an explanation as to why you think that the US shouldn't help the Iraqi armed forces with new equipment.

I guess your ignorance provides you a lot of bliss? Firstly, I dont like Bush's foreign policy so you can take that "why do you hate America" over to newsmax where they appreciate such simplistic and uneducated statements. Secondly, i never said the U.S shouldnt sell arms to Iraq. I simply pointed out that Iraq represents a greater profit than simply having a democracy (if it happens) in the Middle East. let me quote myself incase you selectively "missed" it...


I'm not condemning it, but its naive to think that the only "profit" thats going to come from Iraq is going to be a stable democracy. ;)

[GrantT]

Firstly, I dont like Bush's foreign policy so you can take that "why do you hate America" over to newsmax

I never said you hate America. Let me quote myself incase you selectively missed it;


I know your attitude towards the US and its foreign policy

[scorpio]

[quote="BadKarma26"]We did do it alone. ...ahem.really...so us brits cleaned up basra and acted as target practice for the a10s (again) just for fun...look youve not many allies in the world as it is...you really wanna put some thought before making quick posts ...tony blair has put his polical career on the line jumping to your call for a co-illition..you probably wont get better freinds than us in your lifetime ...and what do we get.....paveway missiles up the arse and comments like yours....way to go

[Secret Squirrel]

Firstly, I dont like Bush's foreign policy so you can take that "why do you hate America" over to newsmax

I never said you hate America. Let me quote myself incase you selectively missed it;


I know your attitude towards the US and its foreign policy

Something wrong? Cant back up your statements or answer my comments?

You asked....


Well I know your attitude towards the US and its foreign policy but I would have liked you to give me an explanation as to why you think that the US shouldn't help the Iraqi armed forces with new equipment.

I said...


Secondly, i never said the U.S shouldnt sell arms to Iraq. I simply pointed out that Iraq represents a greater profit than simply having a democracy (if it happens) in the Middle East. let me quote myself incase you selectively "missed" it...

I'm not condemning it, but its naive to think that the only "profit" thats going to come from Iraq is going to be a stable democracy.

Do you even know what points you're trying to make? Do you even have a reason for posting? Your posts are dependent on your misunderstanding of a post i made that commented on what Deuterium had posted. Do you want to continue or just admit your inability to read/understand my original post?

[LeMat]

How's having an emperor whom people considered to be a God, or very close to it conducive to developing a democracy? The first time a Japanese emperor directly spoke to his subjects was when he declared the capitulation. Yeah "by the people, for the people". They were all thinking about how to best kill themselves for him. Very democratic foundation indeed.

Iraq has a very good chance of becoming a democratic country. Which is not to say it's going to be a happy perfect place. Democratic countries have tons of problems too. Just look at South and Central Americas.

No no no. I want to say that emperor was a substructure. Democracy was built around him. It was like modernisation. In Iraq they don`t have anything. Any substructure. They have to build everything and they don`t know how to do it.
I live in Poland. We have democratic since 1989 and Poland was one of the most democratic country on the world in the history. But we still have horrible problems. So I think that Iraq will have bigger and bigger problems.
Just look on Russia. This is very ill democracy.

[Sergei]

I live in Poland. We have democratic since 1989 and Poland was one of the most democratic country on the world in the history. But we still have horrible problems. So I think that Iraq will have bigger and bigger problems.
Just look on Russia. This is very ill democracy.

Keep your judgement to yourself, kiddo. Russia can very well thrive without an uneducated opinion of a 13 years old. :bash:

[LeMat]

Keep your judgement to yourself, kiddo. Russia can very well thrive without an uneducated opinion of a 13 years old. :bash:

So you think, that it is OK and democratic when old president (Jelcyn) points on Putin and says "He will be next president"?
So I think we have different visions of democracy. I see and preffer western model and you see and preffer eastern model.

[CRAZY MERC]

To East:
Watch your language f... retard.

[Tom The Hunter]

But what kind of help can the russian troops give?
If Russia could be so rich and clever, would improve the situation of russian people!

[khukuri]

But I guess they just want Russian peacekeepers there so Russian energetic conpanies would come back and rebuild Iraq, but they will comeback and finish they job anyways, but only after there will be a little bit more control over situation



doesn't really matter if they have their own problem they are not going into Iraq, while Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari asked for Russian peackeepers in Iraq, and the fact that he asked doesn't seem to be real...

He is just a puppet doing wat he is told. Us wants russia, not because of military reasons but political ones. If russia joins US really succeded in ****ing the france, germany and UN. Not to mention it would be good for the elections when bush can point out that most of the world still is with him.





We did do it alone. And if we were assholes we would pack up and leave.

No becaus its against your interests to leave, leave and youll have a bigger problem tham before you went there. Us inst still there to be the nice guys. Thinking that is just naive.




don`t think so. It is imposiible to learn democracy in 1 or 2 years. In that part of world there were no democracy. It needs generations to learn people democracy. Especialy when they haven`t any democratics point in history

Which of todays democratic countrys have? I know swedens didnt have? But its not easy I know. Democracy isnt something to be learned!
Youll just have to find a good situation for it. its hard to build a a democracy when you have a little bunch of people armed. Its things like theese. When there are toher powers that hinder democracy from happening.

Irak do have good historical points. We have an old culture of different political partys, political magazines, political duscussion forums like cafes etc etc etc etc The political climate in iraq is very good compared to other arab countrys.
Then saddam came...
but still today...
If you take a walk in bagdad today you see several books shops selling mostly books covering political issues. If iraq is developed to be a federation things are possible, cuz then theres no reason for civilwar.



Japan has the monarchy which was a heart of democracy. Democracy was build on old system. In Iraq everything was destroyed. Also it is islam. Islam is very antidemocratic.

Have nothing to do with it. Islam is not more hinder to democracy tha christianity was in west or poland today! The big reason for middle east not having democracy havent beenislams. Matter of fact 95% of the regimes in the arabworld are all of them anti religous. From marroco, lybia, syria to iraq!

[LeMat]

Which of todays democratic countrys have? I know swedens didnt have? But its not easy I know. Democracy isnt something to be learned!
Youll just have to find a good situation for it. its hard to build a a democracy when you have a little bunch of people armed. Its things like theese. When there are toher powers that hinder democracy from happening.



Also democracy is thing to learn. In Poland many people still don`t believe that they can change sth. Also many politicals don`t understand that they can`t act as they were acting before 1989. Believe me - in Poland we are still learning what the democracy is and how it works.



Irak do have good historical points. We have an old culture of different political partys, political magazines, political duscussion forums like cafes etc etc etc etc The political climate in iraq is very good compared to other arab countrys.
Then saddam came...
but still today...
If you take a walk in bagdad today you see several books shops selling mostly books covering political issues. If iraq is developed to be a federation things are possible, cuz then theres no reason for civilwar.


Of course they have better situation than Afghanistan. But it will be very difficult fot them to build stable democracy. And probably it will take years. Iraq has completely different antidemocratic (not antipolitical) culture - ISLAM.



Have nothing to do with it. Islam is not more hinder to democracy tha christianity was in west or poland today! The big reason for middle east not having democracy havent beenislams. Matter of fact 95% of the regimes in the arabworld are all of them anti religous. From marroco, lybia, syria to iraq!

I want to say that emperor was a kind of bridge which helped to keep history and future (democracy) together. Japanese could say "OK we have democracy but we have the emperor". In Iraq they don`t have any bridge. They will have completely new country.
And what do you mean by hinder christianity in western Poland??
Islam is antidemocratic. In Islam there is no woman is something "worse" than a man. Also clans have very big power.
You see in Europe it took 1000 years to build democracy. I don`t think that Iraq will make STABILE democracy in less than 20 years.
In Poland we have 15 years of democracy and still it doesn`t work well.

[khukuri]

Iraq has completely different antidemocratic (not antipolitical) culture - ISLAM.


Hmm... very interesting, in what way will islam hinder democracy in iraq?

What inislams says you cant have a democratic country???

And yes I agree with you that democracy doesnt happend in 2-3 years. I dont even think democracy works good in the states where only 50% of people vote plus you have to raise a fortune to become a polititian.

[LeMat]

Hmm... very interesting, in what way will islam hinder democracy in iraq?

What inislams says you cant have a democratic country???



I don`t know if my english is good enought to clearly say about this.

In Islam we have few things which aren`t friendly with democracy. Also few elements of arabic culture isn`t "compatible" with democracy.
1. Women aren`t equal to men.
2. This society is very patriarchal. Father says and rest of family do what he said.
3. Islam is very puritanic. It is difficult to build democracy and don`t allow women to wear shorts.
4. Real power is in hands of clans.
In Europe we had similiar problems. But as I said it took 1000 years to do something with them. I`m afraid that US is too optimistic and there won`t be good democracy in Iraq in next years.

[khukuri]

In Islam we have few things which aren`t friendly with democracy. Also few elements of arabic culture isn`t "compatible" with democracy.


1. Women aren`t equal to men.


Women arent equal to men either in christianity. And the view of women differs from each muslim. Women in a moslem soceity, can have the same rights as men. In many moslem countries you see women who are polititians, doctors and so on. Iran even have women in themilitary. Theres nothing in koransaying that woman cant work.



2. This society is very patriarchal. Father says and rest of family do what he said.

And that is to differ lets say in russian or latinamerica. This is they the world have been everywhere. In islam the kids have actually their rights.


3. Islam is very puritanic. It is difficult to build democracy and don`t allow women to wear shorts.




4. Real power is in hands of clans.



BS. my family belong to a clan originally and we dont give a **** about it. For 40 years ago the power of the clans were extremely lowered. It only existed in the rural areas. Now its back a bit. But just as we destroyed it a couple of years ago it will disappear again. Power in the clan relys that you have to depend on them. When the state works again, it gives you protection and job, nobody will care of the clans anymore just as before.



Islam can be viewed in many ways. Most of you have only seens the extreeme peoples views. Just because people are muslims doesnt mean the we would prefer a sharia moslem consitution.

ACTUALLY in islam, you cant be forced to become a muslim. If somebody forces you its illegal in islam. You not forced to beleive that you arent allowed to have shorts as a women.
Its totally possible that you have a democratic soceity in a state where there mostly lives moslems. I am a moslem myself and I wouldnt like to sharia as law. Just as many others, even some clerics.

[East]

To East:
Watch your language f... retard.

I called you an *ignorant fool* I see no foul language there. I'
m sorry if i'm not up to your great level of insulting people. :roll: :backhand:

[LeMat]

Women arent equal to men either in christianity. And the view of women differs from each muslim. Women in a moslem soceity, can have the same rights as men. In many moslem countries you see women who are polititians, doctors and so on. Iran even have women in themilitary. Theres nothing in koransaying that woman cant work.


Sure. But in european countries church and state are strictly separated. In islamic countries not always. And in Iraq there is too many orthodox muslims who want religious state.



And that is to differ lets say in russian or latinamerica. This is they the world have been everywhere. In islam the kids have actually their rights.


But unfortunatelly women almost don`t have rights in islam.
Also democracy in Russia or latinaamerica is... let`s say lame ;)



BS. my family belong to a clan originally and we dont give a f*** about it. For 40 years ago the power of the clans were extremely lowered. It only existed in the rural areas. Now its back a bit. But just as we destroyed it a couple of years ago it will disappear again. Power in the clan relys that you have to depend on them. When the state works again, it gives you protection and job, nobody will care of the clans anymore just as before.


I understand but it can collide with democracy. We can see it in Afghanistan where building democracy is very difficult and clans are fighting for power.



Islam can be viewed in many ways. Most of you have only seens the extreeme peoples views. Just because people are muslims doesnt mean the we would prefer a sharia moslem consitution.

ACTUALLY in islam, you cant be forced to become a muslim. If somebody forces you its illegal in islam. You not forced to beleive that you arent allowed to have shorts as a women.
Its totally possible that you have a democratic soceity in a state where there mostly lives moslems. I am a moslem myself and I wouldnt like to sharia as law. Just as many others, even some clerics.

Of course. For example Turkey is good example. It is almost democratic country (almost because many things are bad but they are on good way). But as you can see in Iraq extremists muslims are quite popular and this is a problem.

Personally I have nothing against muslims or islam. But I`m little afraid of extremists.

[DaMasta!]

It`s not truly important to argue about possibility of building democracy in iraq, because Iraqis just dont give a **** about democracy, and in fact they probably dont wont no democracy.

Ability to choose goverment in elections is important only to pepople in western culture, thats why democracy is not working anywhere else (apart from few exeptions)

[khukuri]

LeMat wrote

Personally I have nothing against muslims or islam. But I`m little afraid of extremists

Hehe, whos not afraid of thos mofos



It`s not truly important to argue about possibility of building democracy in iraq, because Iraqis just dont give a **** about democracy, and in fact they probably dont wont no democracy.

Ability to choose goverment in elections is important only to pepople in western culture, thats why democracy is not working anywhere else (apart from few exeptions)


Thats just total bull****! Sence when where you chosen to speak on behalf iraqis? Where did you get that? You dont know **** myfriend.

Most irakis arabs and moslems want democracy. They just havent had the chance for. Actually the only reason why saddam was so cruel is because people tried to stop him, so he got harder on them. If middel eastern people didnt want democracy, why are the governing dictatorships making it illegal to start opposing partys? quz people in middle east do work for democracy. its just that its a bit dificult when you get your head chopped of fighting for it.

[OB Kenobi]

It`s not truly important to argue about possibility of building democracy in iraq, because Iraqis just dont give a **** about democracy, and in fact they probably dont wont no democracy.

Ability to choose goverment in elections is important only to pepople in western culture, thats why democracy is not working anywhere else (apart from few exeptions)

And look at who we get to choose between. ;) They call this Democracy?

Corporate crooks have ruined everything in the west, Democracy has been compromised.