Senate Bill 6: Florida Teachers Pay to be Based on Test Scores

[Steelersfan413]

Link. (http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florida/2010-04-09/Local-teachers-react-to-Senate-Bill-6-passage)


CHARLOTTE COUNTY, Fla - You'll be hard-pressed to find a teacher who didn't stay up until the early hours of the morning watching and waiting for the final vote on Senate Bill 6. The house passed it 64-55. Some say, they already knew it would come down to Governor Charlie Crist's decision. They just hope he vetoes it.

A week ago, teachers across Charlotte County took time out of their spring breaks to protest, and more importantly, educate people on a bill they said would destroy Florida's education system. A week later, SB 6 is in Gov. Crist's hands. "We knew it was going to end up on the Governor's desk. We were just hoping and praying to maybe get our local representatives to listen to their constituency and not to the republican party," said Bryan Bouton, a Port Charlotte h.s. teacher.

"The fact that there is no inclusion, no corroboration, no talking to any stakeholder, you can only wonder what the real agenda is behind this and unfortunately the kids of Florida are going to suffer," said Charlotte Florida Education Association President, John Klenovic.

The two state representatives whose offices they protested in front of, Paige Kreegel and Ken Roberson, voted "yes." Kreegel tells me he is in no way anti-teacher, and understands their concerns. But he says, offering financial incentives is the next step in making Florida's education system better. Local educators say the fights not over yet. "I can tell you that teachers will not go quietly. We won't just give up and throw our kids down the drain. We will exert every legal option that's available and there are many," Klenovic said.

Although Crist initially supported the bill, he now says he's unsure if he'll sign it after his office has become flooded with calls and e-mails. Local teachers say that's also their strategy for the next week.

This will affect all of my teachers, and myself and my friends, (unless it's vetoed, or put in to action after I graduate.)

Basically the bill says that teachers are to be payed based on standardized tests scores.

This is my first time in this section. Anyone care to discuss this?

[Yeti2424]

The problem with paying teachers based on their students scores in standardized tests is that teachers will begin to teach only to pass the test. While on the surface this is fine most standardized tests have little to no bearing on actual knowledge that a student has obtained. Plus the cynical side of me looks at this and thinks that if a group of students really wanted to get back at a teacher they would simply have to fail the test on purpose.

On the other hand the problem with not basing teachers pay on something like this means that you have to continue the status quo which is paying teachers based on years of service and level of degree obtained which means that the teachers who are both good students themselves and stick around in a single district the longest are the highest paid. This has nothing to do with the ability to teach.

If you base teachers pay on graduation rate then they simply have to inflate the grades of the students to get them through.

The real question is what aspect of education can be measured to a degree good enough to base a teachers pay on? Personally I think that a voucher system solves the issue. Let the schools operate as businesses and let the parents pick the one that they think is best for their children. I can guarantee you that if a school is not cutting it the parents will pull their kids out and take them to a better one. The schools that are doing well will be able to pay their teachers more while the schools that are doing bad will fall by the way side.

[Anthony91]

Not to go off-topic, but I hope to god kids in Florida never read this bill.

[Ordie]

You can teach any kid to pass a test.

Teaching a kid HOW TO THINK is much more important.

[Scriptable]

How do socio-economic factors impact this in terms of student performance on tests? Will teachers be punished for working with students who are more challenged?

[gaijinsamurai]

The Japanese educational system has centered around passing tests, particularly the middle school , high school, and university entrance exams. Japanese education officials have finally come to the realization that this is detrimental, and are taking steps to make exams less important.

If I were a teacher who's students didn't bother to study, do their homework, or come to class, I'd be pretty upset about this.

[thecdn]

How do socio-economic factors impact this in terms of student performance on tests? Will teachers be punished for working with students who are more challenged?

Yes, exactly the problem with this. Well off areas have parents that buy books, read to their kids, encourage them, hire tutors, etc, etc. Other areas have parents that barely speak english, don't encourage their kids, or help them to succeed. Teachers will be punished or rewarded by where they are assigned. No one will want to teach in the poorer areas. Things will get worse for those who already in a bad situation while the rich will get richer.

[Hollis]

You can teach any kid to pass a test.

Teaching a kid HOW TO THINK is much more important.


Exactly, they will teach to the test. Idiots who passed this bill.

[CPL Trevoga]

It's a bad idea, IMHO. I think US multiple choice tests are too easy, as you always presented with a right answer among other answers, so there is 10% to 25% chance that you can guess a right answer. In my old country, we had to write up full work that led to your answer.

[Get_It]

I'm curious about this. Will all tests be counted for the scores or will special tests/exams be given? If so, what safeguards will they put in place to make sure that the teacher just simply doesn't give his/her students the test and write the answers on the board?

Cheers,

[Mu-Meson]

Ya'll go on about "teaching to the test" and "teaching how to think". Frankly, the US education system is doing neither. So what if they teach to the test. At least the kids will know the answers to the test questions. As it is now, they know jack ****. And how about the tens or hundreds of thousands of kids who drop out every year? The 18 yr olds who show up to college and can't read or write for ****. Something has to change, and the solution is not to pile more money into it. Washington DC spends $16,000 per child in its education system, and it has pretty much the worst scores, and results in the US. And that's saying something. In grade 4, US kids rank up there near the top with Japan and Korean kids. By the time they graduate, they only beat out places like Lithuania and Cyprus.

The solutions are clear, but teachers unions go ape**** any time someone tries to change things. Less administrators who do nothing at all. Fire dead weight teachers who can't teach. Performance based pay and employement. Get back to old fashioned real knowledge learning - enough of all the touchy feely, self-esteem BS and revisionist, superficial history. Look up charter schools. Look up "rubber rooms" in NY. Read up on Washington DC's schools.

You guys whine and moan about this. Well, what is so damn terrible about pay based on performance? It happens in a bazillion places in the real world. Being paid based on how well you teach? My God! That's outrageous!!!!1!

You point about differences in incomes, demographics, and other socio-economic factors are reasonable. But they won't stop a well run school with the right attitude and teachers from achieving amazing results. Read up on the Urban Prep Academy (a charter school) that has 100% of its all-black graduating class going to college. That's compared to 6% in the public Chicago system. Or how about the American Indian Public Charter school in Oakland, CA. Hell, just read the Wikipedia page on it, and you'll see.

[Panchito12]

You can teach any kid to pass a test.

Teaching a kid HOW TO THINK is much more important.

Correct 100%. Except that a whole bunch of public school teachers can't even do that.

Want me to support the removal of this proposal? Have the Union stop supporting the Dems.

Now how's that for a trade-off?

[realityexists]

Correct 100%. Except that a whole bunch of public school teachers can't even do that.

Want me to support the removal of this proposal? Have the Union stop supporting the Dems.

Now how's that for a trade-off?
Right on! Those damn commie unionized teachers support the evil Dems!

So screw the education of the future citizens of our nation, who cares if they are not taught to think instead they simply learn answers to a test. Good trade-off :-|

[Ordie]

Right on! Those damn commie unionized teachers support the evil Dems!

Then you agree that unionized police, fire firghters, nurses and paramedics are evil 'commies' as well ?

As far as blaming union teachers, it begs the question why they are members of a collective bargaining unit?

I'm willing to bet we pay our prison guards more than our teachers.

[realityexists]

Indeed sarcasm is hard to convey on forums :cantbeli:

[Steelersfan413]

This was a Republican proposed bill. How would supporting Dems be detrimental to this? Wouldn't teachers who suffer as a result of this be more pissed at the Republicans? (This is all despite the likeliness that Christ will veto the bill)

[gaijinsamurai]

You guys whine and moan about this. Well, what is so damn terrible about pay based on performance? It happens in a bazillion places in the real world. Being paid based on how well you teach? My God! That's outrageous!!!!1!

.

Because these tests really don't measure a teacher's ability or performance.

For most people who are familiar with issues regarding education and teaching methods, the negative consequences of placing such importance, and financial reward, on exams, are pretty clear. Those who choose to ignore those reasons seem to be doing so for political reasons rather than for a genuine concern for the quality of education kids receive. Why? It's beyond me.

[deagle]

dang,what happened to sleeping with teachers for grades.

so a teacher w/ low pay is more susceptible for bribes for a higher grade, which would increase their already low pay rate. this is an awesome plan.

[0rphie]

My older child went to Kindergarden last Sept, this became my first encounter with the MA education system. In general I am pretty happy with the school, however there are a number of things that need to be changed. I have no idea how to make eduction better. I think the key element is to let individual towns to set their own rules and not let the Feds to impose theirs. there are arguments pro and against merit pay for teachers, all of them valid. People should just accept that there will be kids who do well and those who do not. Yes, education starts with parents, the school only provides a framework. I personally think that merit pay system is warranted, however the way a teacher is assessed should be flexible and up to a principle and PTO.

[Steelersfan413]

Walk-out scheduled for tomorrow. Figured I'd let everyone know.