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CG51
04-15-2010, 10:47 AM
Looking back, we may all remember April 15, 2010, as the day we got off cheaply. Why a growing deficit and increased spending on health care and Social Security nearly guarantee higher tax bills in our future.

Almost nobody likes tax day, but people may look back nostalgically on tax day 2010 and those of earlier years because, almost certainly, taxes are going up in the future, and they may go up a lot. With hindsight, tax day 2010 may seem almost dreamy.

Why? For starters, almost half of U.S. households aren't paying any income taxes on their 2009 earnings. The exact figure is 47 percent, says the Tax Policy Center of the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/index.cfm), two think tanks. Among elderly households, 55 percent pay no income tax; among all households with children (including those headed by single parents), the nonpaying share is 54 percent. By contrast, only 38 percent of married couples filing jointly don't pay. (Of course, this doesn't mean people pay no federal taxes; about three quarters of households pay more in Social Security payroll taxes than in income taxes.)

The personal exemption and standard deduction, combined with the child tax credit and the Earned Income Tax Credit, shield many poor and middle-class families from the income tax. In 2009 they got extra protection from President Obama's Making Work Pay tax credit, which was $400 for single workers (phasing out at $75,000 of income) and $800 for a couple (phasing out at $150,000 of income). Without that credit, probably only 40 percent of households or less wouldn't have paid income taxes. President Obama has proposed that the credit be renewed for 2011. But given the massive federal budget deficits, there's a good chance that the credit will someday expire.

So that's one pressure for higher taxes. But it's peanuts compared to the real threat: an aging America. As almost everyone knows, the huge baby-boom generation is edging—or collapsing—into retirement. Its first members, born in 1946, turn 65 in 2011, when they will qualify for Medicare. Some have already taken Social Security as early as 62 at a reduced rate. Boomers collecting benefits, combined with uncontrolled health costs, are the underlying engine for rising federal spending and endless budget deficits.

To which there's at least one obvious solution: raise taxes. By all estimates, the budget outlook is daunting. The latest projections of the Congressional Budget Office reckon the cumulative deficits under President Obama's policies to be $12.7 trillion from 2009 to 2020. In 2020 the estimated annual deficit will be $1.25 trillion, or 5.6 percent of the economy (gross domestic product), despite assumed "full employment" of 5 percent. And the deficits get larger with every succeeding year. Given unavoidable uncertainties, these precise projections are likely to prove wrong. But their basic message seems incontestable: there's a large and growing gap between the government's promises and the existing tax base.

How big a tax increase would be needed to close the gap? Well, huge. To put things in perspective, all federal taxes (income, payroll, and excise) averaged 18.1 percent of GDP from 1970 to 2009. Under CBO's assumptions about Obama's policies, taxes in 2020 would already be slightly higher, at 19.6 percent of GDP. But on top of that, there'd need to be a further tax boost approaching a third to balance the budget, because spending is projected at 25.2 percent of GDP. Needless to say, this would be the largest tax burden in U.S. history, even including World War II.

The rest of the article here: http://www.newsweek.com/id/236383

Winger
04-15-2010, 10:57 AM
I'm in a medium income level with a wife who doesn't work and one child. I'll admit that even though I paid taxes throughout 2009 I'm actually receiving back some money this year due to credits etc. For this year it is definitely true what they say about taxes and only a certain percentage of filers who actually pay.

Continuing spending and increasing the tax burden to a 1/3 of GDP as the article states to balance the budget might be crippling. Personally, I would only be able to afford the bare necessities; mortgage, insurance, food etc. No complaints there, I'm truly blessed to have what I have but I can't imagine the economic effect that would have if everyone was forced into that situation. Cutting spending and further reforming our big programs seems the only way to go.

Mastermind
04-15-2010, 07:42 PM
My friend has a lodger...a Mexican citizens working in the USA legally...green card and all. He actually received an Unearned Tax Credit for his child dependents living in Mexico! He recd 8 thousand bucks of tax payer dough...yet earned less than 28 grand! My pal...no dependents, earned 38 G...paid more than five G in income tax. He's totally infuriated by this...his gummin't took five grand from him and gave it to his non-citizen lodger to help support children who are not even US citizens!

I told him...well, at least now the guy has dough to pay his rent....

Friend was not amused.

deagle
04-15-2010, 08:22 PM
ok, so income tax got lower,, but every other tax went up. situation isn't good

tuition goes up, and financial aid goes down

does that make any sense either ?

Winger
04-16-2010, 07:42 AM
My friend has a lodger...a Mexican citizens working in the USA legally...green card and all. He actually received an Unearned Tax Credit for his child dependents living in Mexico! He recd 8 thousand bucks of tax payer dough...yet earned less than 28 grand! My pal...no dependents, earned 38 G...paid more than five G in income tax. He's totally infuriated by this...his gummin't took five grand from him and gave it to his non-citizen lodger to help support children who are not even US citizens!

I told him...well, at least now the guy has dough to pay his rent....

Friend was not amused.

That is just wrong.

madjack
04-16-2010, 10:36 AM
Time for the flat tax. Everybody antes up 5%. Everyone submits a one page return. No one over the poverty line gets any refunds.
Of course, the huge tax sub-culture - including those morons who eventually answer the phone at the IRS - we've created and nourished for these many years will have to find other work.

Bia
04-16-2010, 11:10 AM
I dont mind paying taxes.

I pay around 14%.

Work is hard... but poverty is harder... so yeah... it's all good.

Irbis
04-16-2010, 01:52 PM
Time for the flat tax. Everybody antes up 5%. Everyone submits a one page return. No one over the poverty line gets any refunds.
Of course, the huge tax sub-culture - including those morons who eventually answer the phone at the IRS - we've created and nourished for these many years will have to find other work.

Pffft, that's an excellent way to shrink GNP and permanently damage the economy. Ask yourself a question, if that's so good idea, why virtually no developed country uses this, and these developing that adopted this show no advantage, but disadvantage and are already adopting progressive back? :roll:

TL/DR - believing that moronic propaganda of various CEOs and Scrooges that want more money for themselves without any regard for the rest of the economy and buying that it will somehow help despite having the entire 2008 as proof against it (and no proof for it) is, well, dumb.

eskachig
04-16-2010, 06:23 PM
I pay around 14%.Well of course you don't mind paying taxes. Looking at my paystub for the last two weeks, after combining federal and state taxes with medicare and social security, around 40% is being withheld from my paycheck. I may able to get some of it back next year, and probably will since I formed a garage startup/business expense sink on the side, but without special tax trickery that's my effective tax rate. And it sort of sucks.

That said, I understand the need for taxes and appreciate that they ensure that there is a stable and productive country around me, allowing me to earn a living in the first place. I wouldn't mind if social services here were a little closer to par with the rest of the devloped world though.

skyrock
04-16-2010, 06:57 PM
1/3 of my income goes to the federal and state governments. I don't mind paying taxes, but I hate them squander the hard earn money in many ways.

Nano
04-16-2010, 08:23 PM
The thread title should have been "Today is the best Anal rape of you Life". The game is just so broken that issuing massive daily patches won't ever fix such a fundamentally broken game.

madjack
04-16-2010, 08:53 PM
Pffft, that's an excellent way to shrink GNP and permanently damage the economy. Ask yourself a question, if that's so good idea, why virtually no developed country uses this, and these developing that adopted this show no advantage, but disadvantage and are already adopting progressive back? :roll:

TL/DR - believing that moronic propaganda of various CEOs and Scrooges that want more money for themselves without any regard for the rest of the economy and buying that it will somehow help despite having the entire 2008 as proof against it (and no proof for it) is, well, dumb.

Do you pay taxes in the States?
I do, and I don't care what anybody does in any other country.
Our system has many loopholes, is based on countless codes written by politicians to placate and reward supporters, and has promulgated the growth of a huge subculture within our society whose primary interest is the continued complexity of our tax structure to assure their own prosperity.
The term "flat tax" is a bit simplistic. But the concept is not dumb. And as for your theory of how "scrooges" would profit, here's a newsflash buckaroo - they already do. They employ battalions of tax lawyers and accountants who specialize in finding evry nook and cranny available to hide money in. If you're an expert on our system you must already know that.
I've been paying taxes to the USA for 40 years, and do my own returns. Experience is a great teacher. Maybe you'll learn that someday.

0rphie
04-16-2010, 09:24 PM
While, I paid about 15% in taxes (Fed, State, FICA) of my AGI I am not complaining. The US system "allowed" me to earn the money and I agree to support the system as whole. I do however believe that a flat tax is fair.

Chulo
04-16-2010, 09:40 PM
I dont mind paying taxes.

I pay around 14%.

Work is hard... but poverty is harder... so yeah... it's all good.
Small business , we pay about 45% personal and about 20% on payroll for 1 person. We would hire more, but cant afford to.

Take $10 and give back $2 to show you are generous.

madjack
04-16-2010, 09:48 PM
While, I paid about 15% in taxes (Fed, State, FICA) of my AGI I am not complaining. The US system "allowed" me to earn the money and I agree to support the system as whole. I do however believe that a flat tax is fair.

Fair and efficient. With a revamped and simplified tax system based on a flat rate you don't spend hours pouring over dozens of publications or weeks waiting for some tax season part timer at HR Block to fill out some forms.

Ought Six
04-17-2010, 12:29 AM
When you take into account *all* the taxes you pay; federal, state and local; the average wage earner is transferring well over 40% of their income to Uncle Sugar. Government spending is over a third of GDP annually. That is obscene.

bryanleu2002
04-17-2010, 12:46 AM
When you take into account *all* the taxes you pay; federal, state and local; the average wage earner is transferring well over 40% of their income to Uncle Sugar. Government spending is over a third of GDP annually. That is obscene.

40%? more like 55% for the small buisness owner!

skyeye
04-17-2010, 12:59 AM
Depending on where you live there's various combinations of sales tax, dog tax, vehicle registration, real estate tax, personal property tax, inheritance tax, excise tax, import tax, export tax, gift tax, etc, etc, etc……

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maz9ddxEQnM