L129A1 - British Army "Sharpshooter" 7.62mm rifle

[LEI]

Here is a photo of the L129A1 in final MOD configuration.

Trijicon ACOG TA648 sight, 6x magnification with RMR sight on top
16" stainless steel match grade barrel
Retractable stock and furniture in tan
CAA/Tdi folding downgrip

All that missing is the bipod. It will be a Harris type on an ARMS quick detach mount, as this is the one that performed best in the trials.

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae46/LEILtd/L129A1TA648grip.jpg

[Britishhawk]

Looking good, hope it serves the troops well.

[martinexsquaddie]

ooh shiny shiny drools

[SARGE!!!!]

Very kinky!

[gaijinsamurai]

Nice......

...me want.

[rgjbloke]

That's what I would want because my experience is in 7.62, not 5.56. It will be interesting to see in 6 months time what feedback comes from troops about this weapon actually in theatre use. I know that people will say that's not what it was designed for but, I notice it doesn't have lugs for a bayonet.

[gaijinsamurai]

For me, I'd prefer a fixed buttstock, but I understand why it has a collapsable.

[Chulo]

6x for a "sharpshooter" ? Why not something higher?

[greendzflash]

6x for a "sharpshooter" ? Why not something higher?

because bigger magnification becomes a sniper.

surprisingly, the larger the magnification, the larger the error if you miss. also they are only covering the gap between 600-800/900 m with this.

that is also why it has an ACOG and not a telescopic sight.

adjustment is quicker and also why it doesnt have auto.

[Reaper17]

6x for a "sharpshooter" ? Why not something higher?

They can stick any optic on that since it has the picatinny rails. That sure is a big ACOG.

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

Sexy
123456

[Far]

6x for a "sharpshooter" ? Why not something higher? A fixed scope of that mag has a lot of benefits for DMR. You can easily see out far enough with a 6x while engaging targets from 200-400 M. Since it is fixed, it lets in more light, so the sight pic is better. Also, with a mil-dot reticle, range estimation is constant for fixed power. IMO.

I use a fixed 6x scope to hunt with and it is really easy to get a sight pic in a hurry with it.

[LEI]

1. Customer specified retractable stock

2. Customer specified the scope; they use a similar one on GPMG (M240). Actually, the combination is surprisingly accurate at 800m (Sorry, not in a position to divulge more than that)

3. There will be a bayonet option.

[Policía Loco]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?172697-New-Sharpshooter-rifle-for-troops-in-Afghanistan&highlight=Sharpshooter

[wildcat]

adjustment is quicker and also why it doesnt have auto.

too light of a weapon for auto

plus it is for sharpshooters not rapid fire suppression.

[T3ngu]

I use a fixed 6x scope to hunt with and it is really easy to get a sight pic in a hurry with it.
I also use a 6x on my .22, and more often than not set my 223 at 6x. I hunt everything from rabbits to pigs.

Its sufficient to target a larger target (man sized for example) at reasonable ranges. Having said that im but a civilian.

[gaijinsamurai]

1. Customer specified retractable stock

.

I can totally understand why the collapsable stock would be preferred, and if I were in the same situation as the customer, I'd go with it too.
My preference is as a civilian, who doesn't have to wear body armor or use it in combat. :)

[highdiver_2000]

Just curious, how long is the barrel?

[Commander Shepard]

Just curious, how long is the barrel?

Its 16".


...........................

[MN_Air]

Since when have marksman rifles had optically magnified aiming instruments?

I only use 3x on all of my hunting rifles for big game, small game I use the iron sights. Interesting rifle though.

[oldsoak]

erm - lots of us do.
Trying to pick out and deliver a lethal shot on some bloke at 700m needs that. Thats way over normal distances for game - unless you're hunting Tahr in NZ or suchlike

[gafkiwi]

Most if not all marksman rifles have powered optics. The choice on what power or type of powered optic is based on how the user unit wants to use it. Just to provide an extended range accurate fire capability to the section then this scope is fine. If a longer range capability to Locate, Recognise, Identify and ultimatly engage tgt then something with more power would be adopted. Some armies have gone the way of the Brit as it means there is less training/support required as it is a simple and easy to use.

[T3ngu]

Since when have marksman rifles had optically magnified aiming instruments?

I only use 3x on all of my hunting rifles for big game, small game I use the iron sights. Interesting rifle though.
I lol'd your awesome.

Think about it.

[martinexsquaddie]

hopefully the training package will be up to getting the best out of the rifle.
Its meant to be a section weapon not a sniper weapon.
A modern dragnov/ m14 rather than some single shot at 1800m beast.

[ex1cdo]

Once upon a time, there was the L1A1....

Just showing my age, I guess. No need for collapsable stocks, rails, etc. Just a functional weapon...

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z78/ex1cdo/l1a1s.png

[Indiana Jones]

because bigger magnification becomes a sniper.

surprisingly, the larger the magnification, the larger the error if you miss. also they are only covering the gap between 600-800/900 m with this.

that is also why it has an ACOG and not a telescopic sight.

adjustment is quicker and also why it doesnt have auto.
Magnification does not make the sniper; neither does it make the DMR, obviously. Magnification also has nothing whatsoever to do with "errors if you miss". And why would adjustment be quicker ?


A fixed scope of that mag has a lot of benefits for DMR. You can easily see out far enough with a 6x while engaging targets from 200-400 M. Since it is fixed, it lets in more light, so the sight pic is better. Also, with a mil-dot reticle, range estimation is constant for fixed power. IMO.

I use a fixed 6x scope to hunt with and it is really easy to get a sight pic in a hurry with it.
Transmission benefits of fixed power scopes in contrast to variables are negligible these days. So as long as the reticule is in the first focal plane, range estimation via mildot is constant for a variable, too.
Cheers,
IJ.

[knowitall]

"Just showing my age, I guess. No need for collapsable stocks, rails, etc. Just a functional weapon.."

not much use as a sharpshooters weapon though, IE able to produce ACCURATE shots at 800m esp with a x2 SUIT on it

[greendzflash]

Indiana Jones;Magnification does not make the sniper; neither does it make the DMR, obviously. Magnification also has nothing whatsoever to do with "errors if you miss". And why would adjustment be quicker ?

my life, people making an argument out of their interp of a sentence....there is no need for the magnification to be bigger. end of.
why would it need to be? bigger magnification for longer ranges is what i was getting at.
Also, if you have shot, at longer distance, then you would know that if you put a higher magnification and and do"pull" your shot, the off will be in direct relation to the mag.........

adjustment would be quicker as the user wont be putting the maths in for a windage drum and angled shot cosine adjustment of the sights he will just aim off.....:roll:


Transmission benefits of fixed power scopes in contrast to variables are negligible these days. So as long as the reticule is in the first focal plane, range estimation via mildot is constant for a variable, too.
Cheers,


good schpeil...have you fired or will you fire the weapon in a combat stress enviroment....its not like laying down ****e at 600m with your kestrel out on a nice sunny day on the range.

this is a built to spec weapon for the blokes that have found a need for it. the L96 is a Mega rifle but it was found to be wanting....ie, not gas operated, sights adjustment too complicated for fast turna round on the next round...etc, ie a snipers rifle for a marksmans job.

now we have a sharpshooters rifle for a sharpshooters job.

[gaijinsamurai]

Thanks for sharing the info with us, LEI!
It's a beautiful weapon!

[greendzflash]

too light of a weapon for auto

plus it is for sharpshooters not rapid fire suppression.


1). no, there is just no need for auto, that is the only reason its single shot. not because its too light.

2). absolutely correct.

[ex1cdo]

"Just showing my age, I guess. No need for collapsable stocks, rails, etc. Just a functional weapon.."

not much use as a sharpshooters weapon though, IE able to produce ACCURATE shots at 800m esp with a x2 SUIT on it


Right.

I've never seen an FAL-like weapon with optics used for sharpshooting ever in my life..... :roll:

Fecking amateurs....

[pc12345]

Very sexy looking rifle.. love the microdot <3

[greendzflash]

LEI, yep thanks for the info...cant wait to have a go.

[wildcat]

I think this uses the SR25 mags, I hope so, I have a DPMS LT-308T, I hope magpul will produce some mags.

The lower receiver looks so much like a Knights Armament SR-25, who makes the lower receiver?

[knowitall]

"I've never seen an FAL-like weapon with optics used for sharpshooting ever in my life....."

not an slr with a suit on it you've not

has it occoured to you that the SASC might know more about buying a sharpshooters weapon than you do?

fecking muppet!

[cbreedon]

I have an LMT piston .223 AR. It is very nicely made and very accurate. The LMT collapsible stock is very comfortable with a great cheek weld. Very nice shooter.

LMT's from what I have seen from mine are very well made and should the the troops well.

Is the 7.62 a piston or gas?

[wildcat]

I have an LMT piston .223 AR. It is very nicely made and very accurate. The LMT collapsible stock is very comfortable with a great cheek weld. Very nice shooter.

LMT's from what I have seen from mine are very well made and should the the troops well.

Is the 7.62 a piston or gas?

gas, I don't think there is a 7.62 nato piston platform (yet).

[Hauser]

This one is not piston, regular gas. Is there any way that using direct gas is better than a piston?

[martinexsquaddie]

The SLR could make hits on the range at 800 with or without a scope not sure you'd pull it off so easily in combat?
the L129a1 is vastly more accurate combined with an acgog 30 years more development than the suit sight.
you could make an SLR into a DMR but it would be expensive and tricky to do.

[greendzflash]

"I've never seen an FAL-like weapon with optics used for sharpshooting ever in my life....."

not an slr with a suit on it you've not

has it occoured to you that the SASC might know more about buying a sharpshooters weapon than you do?

fecking muppet!

yep, agree in principle. as has been said, there is x amount of years experience gone into this beaut of a weapon. the fact it out did the HK417 in accuracy and other parts of the trial shouldnt be scoffed at.

the SASC though......arent they the guys who wanted to put rails, x6 ACOG, a foregrip and a new bipod on the LSW and use that as a sharpshooters weapon....yep cos that would have gone down reeeeeeaaal well. good job that didnt come to fruition.

Not a slight at the SASC, everyone has their place, but trying to keep summit going when no one wants it....

ours will be staying at home with the rear party.

[Ought Six]

gdzf:
"that is also why it has an ACOG and not a telescopic sight."The ACOG *is* a telescopic sight.

[Commander Shepard]

Also, if you have shot, at longer distance, then you would know that if you put a higher magnification and and do"pull" your shot, the off will be in direct relation to the mag.........

Higher magnification does not physically amplify shooter induced error. What exactly are you basing that statement on?

[Indiana Jones]

my life, people making an argument out of their interp of a sentence....there is no need for the magnification to be bigger. end of.
why would it need to be? bigger magnification for longer ranges is what i was getting at.
Also, if you have shot, at longer distance, then you would know that if you put a higher magnification and and do"pull" your shot, the off will be in direct relation to the mag.........
Define need? I certainly see a benefit in having a variable in, say, the 2,5-10 range. Greatly aids targets identification for instance. As to your latter comment, it never occured to me that my "off" was in any relation to the magnification, and I do not see why it would. Perhaps you could expand on this?

adjustment would be quicker as the user wont be putting the maths in for a windage drum and angled shot cosine adjustment of the sights he will just aim off.....http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/../images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif
Ahem? Perhaps I am not understanding you correctly ? "Ordinary" scopes with "hold over markings" (or whatever the English technical term is) are widely available since at least 5 decades.

good schpeil...have you fired or will you fire the weapon in a combat stress enviroment....its not like laying down ****e at 600m with your kestrel out on a nice sunny day on the range.
What are you getting at here ?
[...]now we have a sharpshooters rifle for a sharpshooters job.
Well, good, I can certainly see the benefits of a semi-auto in a DMR role, but what does this have to do with the choice of the scope, really ?
Cheers,
IJ.

[martinexsquaddie]

The thinking behind the fixed scope is to keep the soldiers job and training needs to the minimum and keep the weapon in the section not create a "sniper lite" so no ballistic tables dialiing in rages wind etc etc etc.
so rather than one shot one kill get a few rounds down adjust hit him.
Its giving the section the ability to target the enemy out to 800 metres yet retain the ability to win a firefightan L96 or the long range rifle is a brilliant weapon but slightly lacking in rate of fire which is importat in winning the fire fight.

[knowitall]

to add to what martins just said

the other factor with the x6 acog is that it and the x4 version already in service, the guys will likely be familiar with it, armourers will be trained to fix it and spares will be in the system

[greendzflash]

gdzf:The ACOG *is* a telescopic sight.


i know that, i was meaning variable magnification.....

[greendzflash]

[QUOTE=Indiana Jones;4899615]Define need? I certainly see a benefit in having a variable in, say, the 2,5-10 range. Greatly aids targets identification for instance. As to your latter comment, it never occured to me that my "off" was in any relation to the magnification, and I do not see why it would. Perhaps you could expand on this?

there is no need for variable on this weapon....as has been staed by people who dont just want to argue......these are used in theatre already. why start to use variable mag....which changes field of view and also make the sharpshooters job more variable....starting to get into or on the edge of sniper type shooting.
im sure they will know who their target is and not have to keep aquiring. its not a precision shot rifle. it is a sharpshooters rifle.

what i meant at higher mag at long range, people get drawn into the fact the mag has helped them as they can see the target better and subconiously will put too much reliance on this fact and not concentrate as much on the correct marksmanship principles....thats all.


Ahem? Perhaps I am not understanding you correctly ? "Ordinary" scopes with "hold over markings" (or whatever the English technical term is) are widely available since at least 5 decades.

well we call them mil dots or grats.....not that it matters. yep but they all been pretty good as well as expensive with lots of data tables. and optics havent really come onto the battlefiels as regular as they are now until the last 10-20 years....affordability, advances in manufactuer etc. so why get another weapon with ANOTHER model sight when the ones in service are fine


What are you getting at here ?

exactly what it says. this is a battlefield weapon built for that very fact....not some really nice target rifle for on a flat sunny range.

[...]now we have a sharpshooters rifle for a sharpshooters job.
Well, good, I can certainly see the benefits of a semi-auto in a DMR role, but what does this have to do with the choice of the scope, really ?
Cheers,

what i was getting at and have said from the start. this is a battlefield weapon bought for exactly what it does. it comes as a package with the sight which does what its supposed to do. fill the gap from 300 m out to 6-800m. doesnt need variable doesnt need data tables doesnt need cosine indicators on deflection drums......and i for one cannot wait to shoot it next month, hopefully with the MUNS sight on it too.

regards, Neil.

ps, apologies if some of my earlier post seemed like a rant...it wasnt meant to be. both sharpshooting and more just very dear to me thats all.



end of line.

[gafkiwi]

As DZ has said, The Brits had a paritcular capability or role to fill, THEY decided what THEIR user requirement was for what rifle/optic they needed, and this appears to be based on sound reasoning.

Another Army will no doubt have a different user requirement for their marksmans rifle. Our Army is looking at this weapons role at the moment and weighing up the same questions,
How we want to employ it
Capability we want it to have Vs Training Required etc

[martinexsquaddie]

I suppose a valid comparison would be one of h20 mans tarted up m14s m14 probably got more range buts heavier would also depend on how the DMR roles are seen in the diffrent armys

[LEI]

I think this uses the SR25 mags, I hope so, I have a DPMS LT-308T, I hope magpul will produce some mags.

The lower receiver looks so much like a Knights Armament SR-25, who makes the lower receiver?


Yes, it uses SR25 mags.

Magpul are producing mags, but they are still in development.

The lower is made by LMT, and yes, it shares many common features with the SR25.



This one is not piston, regular gas. Is there any way that using direct gas is better than a piston?

Direct gas. We found it more accurate than piston driven at longer ranges.

[gafkiwi]

Direct gas. We found it more accurate than piston driven at longer ranges.
I was wondering about that looking at the history of ARs, with the AR-10 originally being a direct gas system, I wonder if we'll see these during our trials

[martinexsquaddie]

considering the history of British small arms in the last 20 years I await the mod comedy option with mounting dread.
This seems a well thought out and even well priced package.
LMT appear to be competent and respected gun maker. (rather than job creation scheme for retarded primates which is the usual chosen bidder for MOD kit)
I'm sure the MOD can do something to screw this up decide on vegetarian 7.62mm rounds possibly :)

[Indiana Jones]

well we call them mil dots or grats.....not that it matters. yep but they all been pretty good as well as expensive with lots of data tables. and optics havent really come onto the battlefiels as regular as they are now until the last 10-20 years....affordability, advances in manufactuer etc. so why get another weapon with ANOTHER model sight when the ones in service are fine

No, I specifically did not mean a mil-dot type reticule, but rather something essentially similar to the ACOG reticule, that does not require any adjustment once configured for the load. Before my English fails me again, see ie here:
http://www.zeiss.de/C12568CF00206298/GraphikTitelIntern/rz1000_lg/$File/rz1000_lg.gif

and i for one cannot wait to shoot it next month, hopefully with the MUNS sight on it too.

You lucky bastard. Have fun there. ;)

Anyways, if this procurement actually suits the demands of the people on the ground, then by all means, more power to them.
Cheers,
IJ.

[Death.]

That big ACOG looks goofy as hell.

[gaijinsamurai]

on vegetarian 7.62mm rounds possibly :)

Are they worried about another Sepoy mutiny? :)

[Royal]

Are they worried about another Sepoy mutiny? :)

Well the last one meant we took our eye off the ball for a few months...