Pacific Theatre: US Army vs USMC

[SoSo]

In your opinion, does the US Marine Corps get an unfair share of the credit, as opposed to the US Army, for winning the war in the Pacific? What do you think about this? Please everybody, let's be civil!

[Panchito12]

If memory serves me right, the USN had the highest casualty numbers in the Pacific War, and undoubtedly were overwhelmingly responsible for the destruction of the Japanese Empire....although in the end it took a couple of bombs to cut thru the mustard and get the Emperor to see things our way.

[LineDoggie]

The Fights the Marines took part in were usually shorter than the Army's and Much Bloodier.
Tarawa vs. Makin? Tarawa "wins" for sheer heroics. My god, walking in waist deep water for a 1/2 mile under machinegun/ mortar fire the entire time.

Unfair share of Credit? No if anything its the fault of newpapers looking for the Lurid, and Bloody tales rather than the grind of a New Guinea, or a New Georgia.

[HollywoodMarine]

Hey James... you trying to ignite inner-service rivalry between Marines and Soldiers? If you are, then stop and ask the MOD's to lock this forum. All branches did what they were supposed to do in the PTO.

[KEEPER0311]

*Puts down Army clubbing stick*


p-)

[Arnie100]

*Puts down Army clubbing stick*


p-)

roflroflroflrofl

[HollywoodMarine]

At-ease hardcharger... ;)

[SoSo]

Hey James... you trying to ignite inner-service rivalry between Marines and Soldiers? If you are, then stop and ask the MOD's to lock this forum. All branches did what they were supposed to do in the PTO.

No, it wasn't my intention to ignite anything. I posted this believing it could be discussed, like any other question, in a mature and respectful manner. But I will understand, and won't feel badly about it, if the mods do decide to lock this thread, to pre-empt such a slugfest. Maybe I expected too much?

[Zoomie]

Actually, they both get an unfair share of the credit, as everyone knows, it was the USAAF that won the Pacific Theater.

/endthread


p-)

[Ordie]

The Army contributed significantly in the Asia-Pacific front.

Philippine Islands 7 December 1941 - 10 May 1942
Burma, 1942 7 December 1941 - 26 May 1942
Central Pacific 7 December 1941 - 6 December 1943
East Indies 1 January - 22 July 1942
India-Burma 2 April 1942 - 28 January 1945
Air Offensive, Japan 17 April 1942 - 2 September 1945
Aleutian Islands 3 June 1942 - 24 August 1943
China Defensive 4 July 1942 - 4 May 1945
Papua 23 July 1942 - 23 January 1943
Guadalcanal 7 August 1942 - 21 February 1943
New Guinea 24 January 1943 - 31 December 1944
Northern Solomons 22 February 1943 - 21 November 1944
Eastern Mandates 31 January - 14 June 1944
Bismarck Archipelago 15 December 1943 - 27 November 1944
Western Pacific 15 June 1944 - 2 September 1945
Leyte 17 October 1944 - 1 July 1945
Luzon 15 December 1944 - 4 July 1945
Central Burma 29 January - 15 July 1945
Southern Philippines 27 February - 4 July 1945
Ryukyus 26 March - 2 July 1945
China Offensive 5 May - 2 September 1945

[deagle]

fix the title

and btw, the US military won those wars.

[LineDoggie]

I think you'll find a Lot of Australian effort as well

[BlackFlag]

Only one way to settle this:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/IronCross1985/spikes-dealiest-warrior21.jpg

[Ritual]

My grandfather claims he only saw Marines when there were cameras around.

77th Infantry Division, wounded on Ie Shima.

Obviously not true, but still pretty funny. :-P

[SoSo]

I think you'll find a Lot of Australian effort as well

My dad served alongside Australians, he was with the 32nd Division, at Buna.



https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1&view=att&th=124db703bf81e4fb&attid=0.1&disp=thd&zw (https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1&view=att&th=124db703bf81e4fb&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw)

[JUNKHO]

When I was a kid in northern WI, many of the veterans from my home town and surrounding area were together in one company of the Red Arrow division (32nd) at Buna. They did not speak well of the Japanese, and always spoke highly of the ANZAC forces. Don't remember them mentioning the Marines, but it was probably because all the forces were involved in their own special part of "hell".

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

The Army focused on the Southwest Pacific Theater under MacArthur, USMC in Pacific Theater under Nimitz.

The real rivalry here is between MacArthur and Nimitz, not USMC vs US Army.

I'm sure MacArthur and Nimitz have their own ideas about who was most important. I myself don't know the answer.

[Ordie]

My dad served alongside Australians, he was with the 32nd Division, at Buna.



https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1&view=att&th=124db703bf81e4fb&attid=0.1&disp=thd&zw (https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1&view=att&th=124db703bf81e4fb&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw)

Jesus...................

Is your father from Wisconsin?

I've read "The Ghost Mountain Boys" about the 32nd.
Those guys went through hell and have no love for MacArthur because of it.

[Basillicus]

To be honest this is the first time I heard there was any contribution from the US Army in the Pacific theatre, I always thought it as all Marines and Navy while the Army was fighting in Europe. So I would say yes, the USMC does get an unfair share of the credit.

[RECON DOC]

When I was a kid I used to do yard work for a neighbor who served as an Army infantry captain on New Guinea and some other islands I can't remember. I didn't understand because I always thought it was just the Marines in the Pacific, but he and my dad explained to me that it was a combined effort. They were both very generous in their praise of the Marines. They were on the same side, all that mattered was that they beat the Japanese.

[Hollis]

To be honest this is the first time I heard there was any contribution from the US Army in the Pacific theatre, I always thought it as all Marines and Navy while the Army was fighting in Europe. So I would say yes, the USMC does get an unfair share of the credit.


Probably that is why, the Army was very heavily engaged in Europe, the Marines in the Pacific. It was not to diminish the efforts but to give all the services credit for being committed. In this case the Army was not recognized as much as it probably should have been. Also the Marines were in Europe too.



Masters of amphibious warfare tactics, Marines served as planners for the North African, Mediterranean and Normandy invasions. The brief and violent raid by a 6,000-man Canadian and British commando force on the French port city of Dieppe on Aug. 19, 1942, was planned in part by Marine Brigadier General Harold D. Campbell, the Marine Corps advisor to the British Staff of Combined Operations. He was awarded a Legion of Merit for his expertise in developing techniques for large-scale amphibious operations against heavily defended beaches.
Marines trained four Army infantry divisions in assault from the sea tactics prior to the North African landings. Leading the way during Operation Torch, the November 1942 North African invasion, Marines went ashore at Arzeu, Algeria, and moved overland to the port of Oran, where they occupied the strategic Spanish fortress at the northern tip of the harbor.http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/USMCETO.html (http://www.shsu.edu/%7Ehis_ncp/USMCETO.html)

Marines in Europe seems to get ignore too, or it is that compared to the numbers of Army personal, their presences was not a big, so the news was corresponding, not at big.

Probably being a little more well versed in the war in the Pacific, (Navy brat who lived on some of those Islands). I knew the Army was involved and had know soldiers who fought in the Pacific. Maybe it is in the interest of keeping stuff short this mistake is made. Both theaters of war had rich and complex history. One can not adequately cover it in a few movies or books. So maybe the highlights is what people get to see, who are not interesting in reading more.

[CPL Trevoga]

US Army or USMC? I'd say Navy was actually the key to victory in the whole Pacific. If it wasn't for the USN and their control of the seas, transportation, supply and fire support of ground troops, victory in the Pacific would not be possible.

[Hollis]

US Army or USMC? I'd say Navy was actually the key to victory in the whole Pacific. If it wasn't for the USN and their control of the seas, transportation, supply and fire support of ground troops, victory in the Pacific would not be possible.


Maybe, if we remove any one of the services, the whole Pacific campaign would have failed. It was team work.

[Laconian]

Probably that is why, the Army was very heavily engaged in Europe, the Marines in the Pacific. It was not to diminish the efforts but to give all the services credit for being committed. In this case the Army was not recognized as much as it probably should have been. Also the Marines were in Europe too.

http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/USMCETO.html (http://www.shsu.edu/%7Ehis_ncp/USMCETO.html)

Marines in Europe seems to get ignore too, or it is that compared to the numbers of Army personal, their presences was not a big, so the news was corresponding, not at big.

Probably being a little more well versed in the war in the Pacific, (Navy brat who lived on some of those Islands). I knew the Army was involved and had know soldiers who fought in the Pacific. Maybe it is in the interest of keeping stuff short this mistake is made. Both theaters of war had rich and complex history. One can not adequately cover it in a few movies or books. So maybe the highlights is what people get to see, who are not interesting in reading more.

Also, IIRC from a History of Amphibious Warfare class I had, originally the Army picked the USMC's brain on amphibious invasions because of all the work they had done on developing the doctrine in the inter-War years; but as a result, the Army actually conducted more landings in WWII than the Marines.

Another interesting aside is that although a lot of people are familiar with BG S.L.A. Marshall's study that showed only 25-30% of all infantrymen in combat actually fired their individual weapons, his assertions/research were based on the US Army's campaigns in NW Europe. Although he (and other members of the study group) conducted AAR/interviews in the PTO their research their showed that individual infantrymen (Army & Marines) engaged in combat (fired their individual weapons) at a much higher rate - somewhere in the 75-85% rate. It was attributed to the closeness of combat in the PTO vs. the ETO and the savagery of the enemy.

As far as what most people know about the roles of the Army in the PTO vs the USMC, much of that is based on perception

[Wildgoose]

Not really trying to start anything, but I did read somewhere that the US Army Air Forces lost more men than the US Marines in WW2. Of course they were all over the world and the Marines mostly in the Pacific.

[Hollos]

I think you'll find a Lot of Australian effort as wellAnd a fair amount of British help as well

[Niall]

^^ The 14th army aka The Forgotten army fought with Indians, Chinese, Burmese and Americans during the Burma campaign.
Not to mention the Russians in the Manchuria campaign.

[SoSo]

Jesus...................

Is your father from Wisconsin?

I've read "The Ghost Mountain Boys" about the 32nd.
Those guys went through hell and have no love for MacArthur because of it.

Yes, they suffered very heavy casualties. My dad was from Missouri. When he volunteered, the Army put him in the 32nd, which was a Michigan National Guard outfit.
He told me an amusing story. At one point, before going into combat in the Netherlands East Indies, his unit was addressed by a Dutch officer, who knew little English and wasn't sure what to say, but just hoped to give a few words of encouragement. "Vee vill haff goot times togedda," the Dutchman told the bemused American infantrymen. My dad told me he thought of this line many tines afterwards, while enduring the terrible conditions at Morotai: "Vee vill haff goot times togedda."

[LineDoggie]

^^ The 14th army aka The Forgotten army fought with Indians, Chinese, Burmese and Americans during the Burma campaign.
Not to mention the Russians in the Manchuria campaign.

Burma Campaign isnt the Pacific Campaign though. Simply Put, there is a reason that the UK issued the Burma Star and a Pacific Star Campaign Medal.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/Medals/PacificStar.htm

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/Medals/BurmaStar.htm

As well the areas were so vastly spread that each had it's own Supreme Commander

SACSEA (Supreme Allied Commander South East Asia)- Lord Montbatten
POA (Pacific Ocean Area)- ADM Nimitz
SACSWPA (Supreme Allied Commander South West Pacific Area) - GEN. MacArthur


British Contributions to the POA were for the Most part in the Late 1944- 45 timeframe. And the bulk of British units were the RN Pacific Fleet. This isnt meant to slight if some miniscule unit hasnt been mentioned. The Australians / New Zealanders Contributed far more in the SWPA.

SEA(Burma) was a mostly British/Indian effort with minimal US forces involved.

[HollywoodMarine]

Marines in Europe seems to get ignore too, or it is that compared to the numbers of Army personal, their presences was not a big, so the news was corresponding, not at big.

Actually, they were purposely left out of Europe, due to Army Generals service hatred towards Marines for they glory they received in WWI. Project Danny was supposed to have Marine Air Group 51 deploy to Europe to destroy German V-1 rocket sights. However, the US Army would shut that down.


Our plan was to put six Marine squadrons on jeep carriers, and launch the F4Us from the North Sea to make a series of massive attacks on the Nazi targets. After all the planning was done, the training was in progress, and the logistics were in order, I was sent to Washington...to brief the highest civilian and military authorities including General George C. Marshall. ...General Marshall listened, but on hearing that US Marine aviators would make the planned attacks... said something to the effect, 'That's the end of this briefing. As long as I'm in charge of our armed forces, there will never be a Marine in Europe". And there never was during World War II.

[LineDoggie]

Blame Floyd Gibbons for that.

[USMCRTop]

Is this a M-16 vs. AK-47 thread ??

[Kaplanr]

No, John Wayne vs. William Bendix.

[stick.up.kid]

Didn't the Army actually have a significant role in most of the Pacific battles? Only ones i can think of that the Army did not was Tarawa and Iwo Jima??

[stick.up.kid]

Only one way to settle this:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/IronCross1985/spikes-dealiest-warrior21.jpg

lol, god that show is terrible...

[LineDoggie]

Didn't the Army actually have a significant role in most of the Pacific battles? Only ones i can think of that the Army did not was Tarawa and Iwo Jima??
Galvanic was mostly Marine with the Objectives of Tarawa and Kourbash for Makin which was the 165th's Objective. By the way, Every November we have the Makin Dinner with the Veterans Corps and it's a Hell of a soiree.

Detachment was 99% USMC. IIRC the Only "Army" units were USAAF Engineers assigned to get the airfields in running order.

[panzrman]

Didn't the Army actually have a significant role in most of the Pacific battles? Only ones i can think of that the Army did not was Tarawa and Iwo Jima??

Actually, there were quite a number of Army troops involved in Iwo. Many of the Amphibious truck units were Army, as well as some engineer and Air Defense iirc. Also, there was a seperate Army Regiment, the 147th, that was landed on Iwo, and OPCON to the 3rd MARDIV. Once the island was called "secure" they were responsible for the "mopping up", killing or capturing another 2k Japanese. I used to have more links to good reads on it, but here is one:

http://lesterstaube.com/147Infantry.html

As for the original intent of the thread...I do believe the Marines do "get" most of the credit for the PTO. Really is a shame tho, in the greater view of American history that most folks have little to no clue that there were just as many Soldiers, if not more, slogging and fighting their way across the Pacific. But, I put that down to the common lack of interest in history that most folks on the street have. Plus, many of the Marine ops were in todays terms "sexy" compared to the long and arduous battles the Army faced. Along with the awesome PR campaign that the Marines had, and still have. They have the best PR and public image, over the other services I think. And I say that as retired Army!

[martinexsquaddie]

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/BPF-EIF/BPF_Ships.htm
The royal navy only supplied 17 carriers 4 battle ships 30 odd subs plus load of other targets sorry I mean ships :)

[LineDoggie]

British Pacific Fleet

Operating from 22 November 1944

[Hollis]

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/BPF-EIF/BPF_Ships.htm
The royal navy only supplied 17 carriers 4 battle ships 30 odd subs plus load of other targets sorry I mean ships :)


My dad was in the China Fleet before the war, on the USS Alden. I believe they help picked up survivors from the HMS Prince of Whales and HMS Repulse. Latter he was in the Battle of the Java Sea, Dutch, British and US ships.

The month before the battle his squadron attack a Japanese convoy. They were passing the transports close enough that the ExO was strafing the decks with a Thompson MG.

My dad told be of the Battle several times, he was No.1 Gun commander on the Alden (Bow gun). They would run forward and lay smoke and duck back in. Also the run to Surabaya and on to Australia was a great story. They where told they could beach the ships, use them as fortresses then join the Dutch on land, who where in heave fighting with the Japanese. They had just enough fuel to make it to Australia. That night they ran into a Japanese can and sunk it. They figure that morning, all hell was going to break loose, fortunately nothing happened and they managed to steam into Australia,


Combine force was out numbered by the Japanese.

[Cstafford]

My grandfather was in the 32nd, his reg had 2 or so Medal Of Honor receivers. He used to tell me stories when I was a kid, sounded like he went through hell. He served in Korea and never told me one story about it, he was wounded there and not many of his friends survived.

Ill post a pic of a flag he brought back, its pretty interesting.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

My dad served alongside Australians, he was with the 32nd Division, at Buna.


That was the division that Blamey wrote a scathing letter to Curtin about how crap the Americans were. Depending on what book you read the letter was either from Blamey to Macarthour or Blamey to Curtin and it regards the 32nd Division efforts at Buna.

Blamey

It is a very sorrry story. It has revealed the fact that the American troops cannot be classified as attack troops. They are definitly not equel to the Australian MILITIA and from the moment they met opposition they sat down and have hardly gone forward a yard. He ended up sending the 39th bt in to finish off the Japanese at Gona despite Macarthour offering the 41st Division. Because as Blamey put it "I know they will fight"

Anyway shortley after Blamey wrote his letter Macarthour sacked the 32nd divisions commander, Harding and appointed Eichelberger to run the show.


Bob, I'm putting you in command at Buna. Relieve Harding ... I want you to remove all officers who won't fight. Relieve regimental and battalion commanders; if necessary, put sergeants in charge of battalions and corporals in charge of companies ... Bob, I want you to take Buna, or not come back alive ... And that goes for your chief of staff, too.

Amusing none the less.

[Mastermind]

Well, I want to say both contributed equally well...but, really there is no way to comapre the two services due to their incompatible unit design for different styles of missions.

But, let me set one record straight that has been brought up on this thread...that is of the 32nd's conduct at Buna and Gona. Please, I urge anyone to read the history of that battle....the unit had been very poorly trained, poorly equipped and reported unfit for combat at the start in Austrailia....yet, Mac ordered them into the battle. After 2 weeks of very poorly supported combat, they were literally ineffective for combat suffering more than 66% casualties from combat and disease (most casualties there were disease caused). Their commander, Harding, was a brave and well organized commander who had repeatedly asked for the most elementary support and was denied...even food and fresh water....when the relieving officers inspected the troops after only two weeks of combat, they were stunned at the condition of the men...their uniforms in tatters, and reduced to a shuffling, staggering walk by dysentery and typhus (due to having to drink bad water since no fresh water had been supplied by Macarthur's supply depots). The unit had simply been forced into line, offered little or no support and then abandoned.

Of course, true to his nature, mac blamed the commander, and then wandered off to other interests.

[LineDoggie]

That was the division that Blamey wrote a scathing letter to Curtin about how crap the Americans were. Depending on what book you read the letter was either from Blamey to Macarthour or Blamey to Curtin and it regards the 32nd Division efforts at Buna.

Blamey
He ended up sending the 39th bt in to finish off the Japanese at Gona despite Macarthour offering the 41st Division. Because as Blamey put it "I know they will fight



Amusing none the less.
Is that the same Blamey from the Running Rabbits incident after Kokoda? and who almost got shot by his own 21st Brigade troops?

Maroubra Force expected congratulations for their efforts in holding back the Japanese. However, instead of praising them, Blamey told the brigade that they had been "beaten" by inferior forces, and that "no soldier should be afraid to die". "Remember," Blamey was reported as saying, "it's the rabbit who runs who gets shot, not the man holding the gun." There was a wave of murmurs and restlessness among the soldiers. Officers and senior NCOs managed to quiet the soldiers and many later said that Blamey was lucky to escape with his life.

Later that day, during a march-past parade, many disobeyed the "eyes right" order. In a later letter to his wife, an enraged Brigadier Potts swore to "fry his soul in the afterlife" over this incident.

According to witnesses, when Blamey subsequently visited Australian wounded in the camp hospital, inmates nibbled lettuce, while wrinkling their noses and whispering "[B]run, rabbit, run" (the chorus of a popular song during the war). Thereafter, "he was almost invariably" referred to as "That bastard Blamey"
http://www.awm.gov.au/journal/j34/bridgerev.asp


It is indeed amusing....

[KB]

In your opinion, does the US Marine Corps get an unfair share of the credit, as opposed to the US Army, for winning the war in the Pacific? What do you think about this? Please everybody, let's be civil!

Perhaps. But when you look at the results US Marines achieved, starting at Wake Island, continuing on through Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Bougainville, Marianas, Peleliu, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, they're pretty damned hard to ignore.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

@Linedoggie and Mastermind

The whole campaign was a cluster **** of major proportions. The 39th only had barely a section of men who were fit enough to walk out of Gona at the end.

Whilst Blamey was no people person he was an exceptional general and a lot of Macarthours victories can be directly attributed to Blamey who was his Second in Command. The issue many Australian historians have. Well two issues really. Was that despite the US having more troops most of the fighting was left to Australians. 2nd issue is that Australian Milititia Forces who took part in those campaigns were rated by our own army chiefs as not being suitable for operations. Members of one battallion were made up of homeless, vagrants and other scum military police could find on the day the battallion was deployed. Faced similar supply problems, poor leadership yet they generally peformed better.

The fact Eichelberger was forced to lead a bayonet charge at Japanese positions himself speaks for itself.

This is from an Australian historical perspective mind you, and Macarthur nor the US Army are looked at in any regard really.

[Ordie]

Perhaps. But when you look at the results US Marines achieved, starting at Wake Island, continuing on through Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Bougainville, Marianas, Peleliu, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, they're pretty damned hard to ignore.

The planned invasion of Japan was to land the US 1st, 6th and 8th Army led by MacArthur. It would've been the largest amphibious operations ever attempted.

[LineDoggie]

Perhaps. But when you look at the results US Marines achieved, starting at Wake Island, continuing on through Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Bougainville, Marianas, Peleliu, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, they're pretty damned hard to ignore.
Wake Island was a defeat you know, If your counting that might as well count Guam and Bataan, & Corregidor

[Cstafford]

120491120558120492120494120496120497120498120500120493120495120499
My grandpa is the guy with the pipe, I miss him :(

[KB]

Wake-first time a Japanese amphibious landing was repulsed; obviously subsequent attempts succeeded.

Check your stats on the Mardet on Guam (->100 Marines plus attached Navy personnel) vs. opposing forces.

4th Marines acquitted themselves well on Bataan & Corregidor.

[Cipher]

120491120492120493120494120495120496120497120498120499120500
My grandpa is the guy with the pipe, I miss him :(
Those are some pretty awesome war trophies.

[Cstafford]

Those are some pretty awesome war trophies.
Thanks, hopefully they are given to me so they stay in the family as long as possible.

[Ordie]

Thanks, hopefully they are given to me so they stay in the family as long as possible.

I'll keep an eye out for ya on "Antiques Roadshow" on PBS

[gusto]

@Linedoggie and Mastermind

The whole campaign was a cluster **** of major proportions. The 39th only had barely a section of men who were fit enough to walk out of Gona at the end.

Whilst Blamey was no people person he was an exceptional general and a lot of Macarthours victories can be directly attributed to Blamey who was his Second in Command. The issue many Australian historians have. Well two issues really. Was that despite the US having more troops most of the fighting was left to Australians. 2nd issue is that Australian Milititia Forces who took part in those campaigns were rated by our own army chiefs as not being suitable for operations. Members of one battallion were made up of homeless, vagrants and other scum military police could find on the day the battallion was deployed. Faced similar supply problems, poor leadership yet they generally peformed better.

The fact Eichelberger was forced to lead a bayonet charge at Japanese positions himself speaks for itself.

This is from an Australian historical perspective mind you, and Macarthur nor the US Army are looked at in any regard really.


Blamey was a fat corrupt cop ,I've never read he was exceptional only that he was good under Monash in WW1 in the staff role.

MacAthur didn't have much regard for Aussies or Brits either.It was Mac's idea that the fight for Australia should be in New Guinea not ours

The 32nd and our militia troops were all under prepared and equiped to face the japs.Lets not forget it was Aussie armour in the form of American made tanks that helped with the victories.

The yanks and aussies did a bloody good job together under the worse conditions on earth,defeating the best jungle fighters the world had seen up to that point.

[Skutatos]

US Army Pacific Theater casualties(Excludes Alaska Department, U.S. Army Strategic Air Forces, and China-Burma-India Theater.):

Deaths: 50,385
Wounded: 89,314
Captured: 27,465

vs 36,950 Navy deaths and 19,733 USMC deaths.

http://www.archives.gov/publications/ref-info-papers/82/appendix.html

I think its safe to say the US Army saw its fair share of combat. Surprisingly few people seem to be aware that the army was in the pacific at all.

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Indeed. Not much as been made of it in popular culture. I can only think of two movies off the top of my head that deal with the US Army in the Pacific theater (The Thin Red Line and The Great Raid), and no video games.

[LineDoggie]

Pacific Theater War Movies, US Army
The Naked and the Dead-Aldo Ray dudes, Aldo Ray
Between Heaven and Hell
Thin Red Line-1964 vers
Thin Red Line-Crap version
The Great Raid
Bataan
Back to Bataan
Back Door to Hell
Cry Havoc
So Proudly We Hail
From here to Eternity

[stick.up.kid]

Here are some US Army Infantry Okinawa photos...7th Infantry Division

http://i37.tinypic.com/2e3riwk.jpg


http://i38.tinypic.com/xekdnk.jpg


http://i35.tinypic.com/98r8rk.jpg


http://i34.tinypic.com/33nhh1l.jpg


http://i36.tinypic.com/i6fl07.jpg


http://i35.tinypic.com/5vam2q.jpg


http://i35.tinypic.com/14ce5vo.jpg


http://i35.tinypic.com/m9oxfo.jpg


http://i38.tinypic.com/9vi3ad.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/eu3uhx.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/230ina.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/28bu2z8.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/rr4dqb.jpg

[LineDoggie]

77th, 7th was in the Phillipines......

[SBL]

So Proudly We Hail

Blech. Claudette Colbert.

[stick.up.kid]

Assorted Army Pacific theatre photos from many battles.


http://i45.tinypic.com/n5ocpl.jpg

Browning M1917A1 machine gun crew of US 96th Division on the top of Yaeju-Dake Hill, Okinawa, Japan, 18 Jun 1945; note yellow cloth front lines marker on right.
http://i48.tinypic.com/21b3j93.jpg

US 25th Division squad leader pointing at a suspected Japanese position at the edge of Baleta Pass, near Baguio, Luzon, Philippine Islands, 23 Mar 1945.
http://i46.tinypic.com/15ck84j.jpg

US Infantry on Stepping Stone Island on the Vella Yavella Island Front.
http://i49.tinypic.com/256z0r7.jpg

Infantryman Terry Moore taking cover as incoming Japanese artillery fire explodes nearby during the fight to take Okinawa.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2yo2uiq.jpg

Battle-weary infantryman Terry Moore with his BAR at his side, eating canned "C" ration lunch of meat, beans & desert during mid-morning respite in the fighting against Japanese enemy on hillside,Okinawa,
http://i45.tinypic.com/68diyx.jpg

Infantryman Terry Moore holding his BAR rifle while crouching behind rocks as he assesses his attack path towards his objective.Okinawa,1945
http://i46.tinypic.com/2ntxkw3.jpg

Three American infantryman in ponchos huddled in foxhole on Okinawa,1945
http://i49.tinypic.com/a2upzd.jpg

American soldiers crossing battlefield strewn with branches and foliage blown from trees during the fight to take the Buna-Gona area from occupying Japanese troops.1943
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33rd ID men of an 81mm mortar squad observe a Japanese soldier killed, 1945
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GI's escort an elderly woman to the rear on Okinawa.
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A flamethrower hurls a burst of fire at a Japanese position on Bougainville Island while riflemen in foreground cover his activity. April 1944
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PFC Emil Raths(R.I.P) employs his flamethrower to destroy a Japanese pillbox as two other Soldiers provide covering fire as the 37th Division holds the line against the Japanese assault on the Cape Torokina perimeter, March 1944.
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Captain Byron E. Bradford in a fox hole during the fight against Japanese forces holding the area.New Guinea 1943
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7th Division soldiers hugging the ground as a flamethrowers try's to smoke out Japanese
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US Army soldiers approach an entrance of a Japanese dugout prior to entering. Image taken during the Buna operations, January 3, 1943
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US soldier uses a captured Japanese light machine gun in Guadalcanal.
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A tank goes forward as infantrymen follow in its cover. Each night the Japanese would infiltrate American lines. At dawn, U.S. troops went out looking for them. March 1944.

[stick.up.kid]

77th, 7th was in the Phillipines......

Im pretty sure they fought on Okinawa also.

[stick.up.kid]

from this site..http://www.carson.army.mil/UNITS/F7ID/F7ID_Historylong.htm

The attack against Okinawa was launched on Easter Sunday, April 1, 1945. Nobody suspected at the time that it was to be the last beachhead, indeed the last campaign, of World War II.
The sprinting 7th moved inland fast, seized the Kadena airfield many hours ahead of schedule, and on the second day of the operation stormed across the remainder of the 14-mile-wide island to teach its east coast. Thus Okinawa was split at the waist. Buckner sent one corps into the north, another to the south. The 7th, assigned to XXIV Corps, pivoted at the east coast and started on the drive south. Soon it experienced the heaviest Japanese artillery fire of the Pacific war, absorbing more than 40,000 rounds of high explosive in two weeks.
It had to take the Pinnacle, a Japanese watchtower rising 30 feet above a 450-foot saw-toothed ridge. The 184th Infantry took the heights by storm after a bitter struggle.
The Division then pushed ahead, taking Tomb Hill and Ouki town. The 32d Infantry was on the Division's left on the Nakagusuku Wan (later Buckner Bay); the 184th Infantry under Colonel Roy A. Greene was on the right. Colonel Frank Pachler's 17th Infantry soldiers were in close support. Finn's 32nd Soldiers met a strong Japanese force on Skyline Ridge, which became the scene of bitter conflict. One platoon found itself under attack by a hundred spear-wielding Japanese. Later, when the Gl's examined the enemy dead, they found the spears were about six feet long with a sharpened ten-inch point. In his official report a company commander remarked, "Their appearance suggests that they would be effective if the soldiers using them could get close enough to the enemy."
The Division drove down to the hill mass dominated by Hill 178; again the Japanese threw down what seemed to be an impenetrable curtain of fire. Then the 7th soldiers on the front line were suddenly joined by a mammoth 155-mm howitzer, a gun normally fired from far to the rear. A bulldozer had scooped out the gun's firing position, and the big piece was set into the hole so that its muzzle was almost level with the ground. Then it went into action, and pounded away at the enemy-held ridge.
This technique proved so successful that two more 155's were brought into play at the front. Despite the counterbattery fire which ensued, none of the 7th's big guns were hit. Watching the peak of the enemy's hill being lowered some 25 feet, an infantry sergeant said, "Them guns talk the kind of language I like to hear."
After five days of grueling fighting the 184th secured Hill 178 and the surrounding terrain. The Hourglass rumbled slowly forward to fight another twelve-day battle at Kochi Ridge, an important approach to the Shuri defenses. Kochi Ridge was finally taken by the 17th Infantry, and the Hourglass Division was sent into reserve after 39 days of continuous combat in which it had suffered more casualties than in the entire 110-day campaign on Leyte.....


On Okinawa the 96th Infantry Division captured Conical Hill, the Marines drove into Naha and Shuri, and the Hourglass Division, back in the lines, advanced to important positions in the southern Ozato Mura hills, where the enemy resistance was the heaviest. Again on the extreme left flank of Tenth Army, the 7th pushed ahead slowly by day and fought off night attacks by enemy swimmers seeking to penetrate the U. S. lines on the east coast. Soon the 184th Infantry was on the coastal plain near Shikya town. On the Division's left, the infantry drove across rain-soaked rice paddies to take the Ghinen peninsula and seize Sashiki and a number of nearby hills. It took O Shima, near the Minatoga cove, in a driving rain; then moved further south to Hanagusuku town, and to Hill 95, where it threw back a series of counterattacks.
The stubborn Japanese resistance continued, even though the Hourglass won the Yaeju-Dake escarpment in a daring surprise attack in the rain. The weather seemed to be on the enemy's side, and the Division's advance was slowed to a crawl. Some days it didn't even advance 300 yards from the previous night's position.
The end, however, was clearly in sight. On June 18th the Tenth Army smashed the enemy's lines and started barreling through in earnest. The 7th finished the day's fighting less than a thousand yards north of the key village of Mabuni. The official end of the campaign finally came on June 21, after 82 days of rugged fighting.
In assessing the Division's accomplishments in the Okinawa campaign, the staff reckoned that the Hourglass men had killed between 25,000 and 28,000 Japanese soldiers, and had taken 4,584 prisoners--more than half of them soldiers of the Japanese regular army, including more than a hundred officers up to the rank of major. The Division suffered 1,116 killed, and nearly 6,000 wounded, to make the total of its World War II casualties 8,135.

[Cstafford]

This thread should be renamed the US Army in the Pacific

[Chiptox]

The 32nd and our militia troops were all under prepared and equiped to face the japs.Lets not forget it was Aussie armour in the form of American made tanks that helped with the victories.

The yanks and aussies did a bloody good job together under the worse conditions on earth,defeating the best jungle fighters the world had seen up to that point.
What about the 41st? They were there too, albeit a little late. The 163rd did the mopping up at Sanandana.

The 163rd did double duty in Hollandia too. Aitape landing and got beat up pretty bad on Wakde. My great uncle (A 1/163rd) was sent to OCS in Australia two days before Wakde. Lucky him.

[panzrman]

This is turning into a good thread. I would recommend the book"The Ghost Mountain Boys" by James Campbell. Very telling of the campaign for New Guinea, and the men of the 32nd. I just finished reading it, and it was a fine read. A couple lines in the intro summed up the original intent of this thread, with the USMC vs U.S.Army in "winning" the war in the PTO. As I said before, the Marines have always had a fantastic public relations department, or IO, Information Operations in todays lingo. Taken from the intro..."By the time the Red Arrow men arrived in New Guinea in September 1942, U.S. Marines were already fighting a brutal, well documented land battle at Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands. The Marines had a superbly oiled publicity machine that kept them in the spotlight. The 32nd Divisions soldiers fighting in New Guinea felt forgotten. The American public, in particular, suffered from the misconception that except for Guadalcanal, the South Pacific was a naval war with a few insignificant ground operations thrown in for good measure."

It might just be me, and my measure of the PTO, but I think that statement held true for a good majority of the Army operations that didn't garner much attention for one reason or another.

[usmcprincipal]

Okay, a retired jarhead here, but I'll throw the doggies a bone.

I'm currently reading E.B. Sledge's book, With The Old Breed. In the book he noted that during the fighting on Okinawa the 7th and 77th Infantry Divisions prevented the Japanese from surrounding the 1st Marine Division and potentially destroying the Marines, which was their intent.

"The Japanese 24th Infantry Division concentrated its frontal attack on the boundary between the American army's 7th and 77th Infantry Divisions. The enemy planned to send a separate brigade through the gap in the American lines created by the 24th Division's attack, swing it to the left behind the 1st Marine Division, and hit the Marines as the Japanese 62nd Infantry Division attacked the 1st Marine Division's front.

If the plan had succeeded, the enemy would isolate and destroy the 1st Marine Division. It failed when the two American army divisions stopped the frontal assault, except for a few minor penetrations, with more than 6,000 Japanese dead counted."

So, at ease dog faces, smoke 'em if you got 'em and know while you may be under appreciated for your efforts in the Pacific you had the entire European Theatre to bask in the glory that is not combat.

[stick.up.kid]

Sledge also had this to say about witnessing some Army infantrymen taking up part of the line on Peleliu.

"We hear firing on the closest ridge. The troops I saw along the road as we unloaded were Army infantrymen from the 321st Infantry Regiment, Veterans of Anguar.

As I exchanged a few remarks with some of these men, I felt a deep comradeship and respect for them. Reporters and historians like to write about interservice rivalry among military men; it certainly exists, but I found that frontline combatants in all branches of the services showed a sincere mutual respect when they faced the same danger and misery. Combat soldiers and sailors might call us gyrenes. and we called them dogfaces and swabbies , but we respected each other completely"