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UkrainianAmerican
07-26-2004, 08:33 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/weekinreview/25bott.html?pagewanted=all&position


OF course it is.

The fattest file on my hard drive is jammed with letters from the disappointed, the dismayed and the irate who find in this newspaper a liberal bias that infects not just political coverage but a range of issues from abortion to zoology to the appointment of an admitted Democrat to be its watchdog. (That would be me.) By contrast, readers who attack The Times from the left - and there are plenty - generally confine their complaints to the paper's coverage of electoral politics and foreign policy.

I'll get to the politics-and-policy issues this fall (I want to watch the campaign coverage before I conclude anything), but for now my concern is the flammable stuff that ignites the right. These are the social issues: gay rights, gun control, abortion and environmental regulation, among others. And if you think The Times plays it down the middle on any of them, you've been reading the paper with your eyes closed.

But if you're examining the paper's coverage of these subjects from a perspective that is neither urban nor Northeastern nor culturally seen-it-all; if you are among the groups The Times treats as strange objects to be examined on a laboratory slide (devout Catholics, gun owners, Orthodox Jews, Texans); if your value system wouldn't wear well on a composite New York Times journalist, then a walk through this paper can make you feel you're traveling in a strange and forbidding world.

Start with the editorial page, so thoroughly saturated in liberal theology that when it occasionally strays from that point of view the shocked yelps from the left overwhelm even the ceaseless rumble of disapproval from the right.

Across the gutter, the Op-Ed page editors do an evenhanded job of representing a range of views in the essays from outsiders they publish - but you need an awfully heavy counterweight to balance a page that also bears the work of seven opinionated columnists, only two of whom could be classified as conservative (and, even then, of the conservative subspecies that supports legalization of gay unions and, in the case of William Safire, opposes some central provisions of the Patriot Act).

But opinion pages are opinion pages, and "balanced opinion page" is an oxymoron. So let's move elsewhere. In the Sunday magazine, the culture-wars applause-o-meter chronically points left. On the Arts & Leisure front page every week, columnist Frank Rich slices up President Bush, Mel Gibson, John Ashcroft and other paladins of the right in prose as uncompromising as Paul Krugman's or Maureen Dowd's. The culture pages often feature forms of art, dance or theater that may pass for normal (or at least tolerable) in New York but might be pretty shocking in other places.

Same goes for fashion coverage, particularly in the Sunday magazine, where I've encountered models who look like they're preparing to murder (or be murdered), and others arrayed in a mode you could call dominatrix chic. If you're like Jim Chapman, one of my correspondents who has given up on The Times, you're lost in space. Wrote Chapman, "Whatever happened to poetry that required rhyme and meter, to songs that required lyrics and tunes, to clothing ads that stressed the costume rather than the barely clothed females and slovenly dressed, slack-jawed, unshaven men?"

In the Sunday Styles section, there are gay wedding announcements, of course, but also downtown *** clubs and T-shirts bearing the slogan, "I'm afraid of Americans." The findings of racial-equity reformer Richard Lapchick have been appearing in the sports pages for decades ("Since when is diversity a sport?" one e-mail complainant grumbled). The front page of the Metro section has featured a long piece best described by its subhead, "Cross-Dressers Gladly Pay to Get in Touch with Their Feminine Side." And a creationist will find no comfort in Science Times.

Not that creationists should expect to find comfort in Science Times. Newspapers have the right to decide what's important and what's not. But their editors must also expect that some readers will think: "This does not represent me or my interests. In fact, it represents my enemy." So is it any wonder that the offended or befuddled reader might consider everything else in the paper - including, say, campaign coverage - suspicious as well?

Times publisher Arthur O. Sulzberger Jr. doesn't think this walk through The Times is a tour of liberalism. He prefers to call the paper's viewpoint "urban." He says that the tumultuous, polyglot metropolitan environment The Times occupies means "We're less easily shocked," and that the paper reflects "a value system that recognizes the power of flexibility."

He's right; living in New York makes a lot of people think that way, and a lot of people who think that way find their way to New York (me, for one). The Times has chosen to be an unashamed product of the city whose name it bears, a condition magnified by the been-there-done-that irony afflicting too many journalists. Articles containing the word "postmodern" have appeared in The Times an average of four times a week this year - true fact! - and if that doesn't reflect a Manhattan sensibility, I'm Noam Chomsky.

But it's one thing to make the paper's pages a congenial home for editorial polemicists, conceptual artists, the fashion-forward or other like-minded souls (European papers, aligned with specific political parties, have been doing it for centuries), and quite another to tell only the side of the story your co-religionists wish to hear. I don't think it's intentional when The Times does this. But negligence doesn't have to be intentional.

The gay marriage issue provides a perfect example. Set aside the editorial page, the columnists or the lengthy article in the magazine ("Toward a More Perfect Union," by David J. Garrow, May 9) that compared the lawyers who won the Massachusetts same-*** marriage lawsuit to Thurgood Marshall and Martin Luther King. That's all fine, especially for those of us who believe that homo****** couples should have precisely the same civil rights as hetero******s.

But for those who also believe the news pages cannot retain their credibility unless all aspects of an issue are subject to robust examination, it's disappointing to see The Times present the social and cultural aspects of same-*** marriage in a tone that approaches cheerleading. So far this year, front-page headlines have told me that "For Children of Gays, Marriage Brings Joy," (March 19, 2004); that the family of "Two Fathers, With One Happy to Stay at Home," (Jan. 12, 2004) is a new archetype; and that "Gay Couples Seek Unions in God's Eyes," (Jan. 30, 2004). I've learned where gay couples go to celebrate their marriages; I've met gay couples picking out bridal dresses; I've been introduced to couples who have been together for decades and have now sanctified their vows in Canada, couples who have successfully integrated the world of competitive ballroom dancing, couples whose lives are the platonic model of suburban stability.

Every one of these articles was perfectly legitimate. Cumulatively, though, they would make a very effective ad campaign for the gay marriage cause. You wouldn't even need the articles: run the headlines over the invariably sunny pictures of invariably happy people that ran with most of these pieces, and you'd have the makings of a life insurance commercial.

This implicit advocacy is underscored by what hasn't appeared. Apart from one excursion into the legal ramifications of custody battles ("Split Gay Couples Face Custody Hurdles," by Adam Liptak and Pam Belluck, March 24), potentially nettlesome effects of gay marriage have been virtually absent from The Times since the issue exploded last winter.

The San Francisco Chronicle runs an uninflected article about Congressional testimony from a Stanford scholar making the case that gay marriage in the Netherlands has had a deleterious effect on hetero****** marriage. The Boston Globe explores the potential impact of same-*** marriage on tax revenues, and the paucity of reliable research on child-rearing in gay families. But in The Times, I have learned next to nothing about these issues, nor about partner abuse in the gay community, about any social difficulties that might be encountered by children of gay couples or about divorce rates (or causes, or consequences) among the 7,000 couples legally joined in Vermont since civil union was established there four years ago.

On a topic that has produced one of the defining debates of our time, Times editors have failed to provide the three-dimensional perspective balanced journalism requires. This has not occurred because of management fiat, but because getting outside one's own value system takes a great deal of self-questioning. Six years ago, the ownership of this sophisticated New York institution decided to make it a truly national paper. Today, only 50 percent of The Times's readership resides in metropolitan New York, but the paper's heart, mind and habits remain embedded here. You can take the paper out of the city, but without an effort to take the city and all its attendant provocations, experiments and attitudes out of the paper, readers with a different worldview will find The Times an alien beast.

Taking the New York out of The New York Times would be a really bad idea. But a determination by the editors to be mindful of the weight of its hometown's presence would not.




With that, I'm leaving town. Next week, letters from readers; after that, this space will be occupied by my polymathic pal Jack Rosenthal, a former Times writer and editor whose name appeared on the masthead for 25 years. I'm going to spend August in a deck chair and see if I can once again read The Times like a civilian. See you after Labor Day.


The public editor is the readers' representative. His opinions and conclusions are his own. His column appears at least twice monthly in this section.

UkrainianAmerican
07-26-2004, 10:08 AM
Hmm, well where are all the Libs? :lol:

Beowulf
07-26-2004, 10:30 AM
hmm, the "yeah, so?" approach.



RA, I used to work at GNC. good times.

UkrainianAmerican
07-26-2004, 10:33 AM
hmm, the "yeah, so?" approach.



RA, I used to work at GNC. good times.
For real?
No wonder you in Psych ops division :lol:
woot

usa320
07-26-2004, 01:34 PM
all newspapers, and most forms of media for that matter, are liberal.

cut
07-26-2004, 01:36 PM
all newspapers, and most forms of media for that matter, are liberal.*

*in america

StarvingStudent47
07-26-2004, 02:19 PM
The New York Times is as liberal as FoxNews is conservative. Everyone has an editorial bias. FoxNews isn't ashamed of its editorial bias. Why should the NYT be?

chauncy republicans
07-26-2004, 02:38 PM
all newspapers, and most forms of media for that matter, are liberal.
Not true! Do you ever listen to talk radio?

fred_engles
07-26-2004, 02:57 PM
The New York Times is a liberal newspaper, which is well and proper, since New York is, by Americn standards, a liberal town (registered Dems outnumber republicans 5-1, and the local 'republican' politicians [like Bloomberg] are actually moderate-to-liberal who don't want to deal with the democratic party machine). If you compare NYC republicans to many southern 'blue-dog' Democrats, you will find them substantially more liberal on many issues.

Doesn't change the fact that the Times is (regardless of politics) the best damn newspaper in the country, and quite possibly the world.

molly747
07-26-2004, 03:33 PM
If you compare NYC republicans to many southern 'blue-dog' Democrats, you will find them substantially more liberal on many issues.

Blue Dog Democrats are an actual voting coalition made up of Members of Congress, whereas Yellow Dog Democrat is an expression -- it describes a certain kind of voter.

spyguy
07-26-2004, 04:05 PM
usa320

not all papers were created equal, if you want a conservative paper within the borders of the United States I think you'll find it in the Wall Street Journal. I subscribe and I'm no Finance major. It gets the Job done and is respected as much as the NYT if not more.

IDFM203
07-26-2004, 06:25 PM
all newspapers, and most forms of media for that matter, are liberal.
Not true! Do you ever listen to talk radio?So let me get this straight, most of the U.S. TV news stations and news programs (with just one exception, Fox) and most of the U.S. papers lean heavily towards liberal/left and yet all you can point to is talk radio as not being as such………to me, even if your right about talk radio, its still far from anywhere close to achieving a fair overall balance from right and left, when MOST of the U.S. media is much more to the left/Liberal




The New York Times is a liberal newspaper, which is well and proper, since New York is, True except that besides it being printed in NY, in reality, the paper is much more then a New York paper, for it is a universal paper and arguably the most influential paper in the world (well certinly in the U.S.) and well it would be nice or actually one can argue it would be their responsibility for them as a paper with their influence and their national and world wide audience, to try to be fair and objective to both sides (right and left) and not too one sided much more so to the left and liberal as they really are.


Just my take on things……….


Shalom :D

gilgoul
07-26-2004, 06:53 PM
Well, I read daily the IHT and Haaretz, and I`m pretty pissed by the fact that the NYT baught off the share that the WP held, I stil do consider the NYT as an almost serious paper, but tend to fart in their fce everytime they report about Irak, But thenm I haven`t found A SINGLE PAPER reporting fairly about Irak.

chauncy republicans
07-26-2004, 06:57 PM
all newspapers, and most forms of media for that matter, are liberal.
Not true! Do you ever listen to talk radio?So let me get this straight, most of the U.S. TV news stations and news programs (with just one exception, Fox) and most of the U.S. papers lean heavily towards liberal/left and yet all you can point to is talk radio as not being as such………to me, even if your right about talk radio, its still far from anywhere close to achieving a fair overall balance from right and left, when MOST of the U.S. media is much more to the left/Liberal
All I can point to? What the **** are you talking about? I adressed a quote saying: all newspapers, and most forms of media for that matter, are liberal. I never once tried to claim there was fairness and balance in our media!

IDFM203
07-26-2004, 07:10 PM
all newspapers, and most forms of media for that matter, are liberal.
Not true! Do you ever listen to talk radio?So let me get this straight, most of the U.S. TV news stations and news programs (with just one exception, Fox) and most of the U.S. papers lean heavily towards liberal/left and yet all you can point to is talk radio as not being as such………to me, even if your right about talk radio, its still far from anywhere close to achieving a fair overall balance from right and left, when MOST of the U.S. media is much more to the left/Liberal
All I can point to? What the f*** are you talking about? I adressed a quote saying: all newspapers, and most forms of media for that matter, are liberal. I never once tried to claim there was fairness and balance in our media! :cantbeli: hey calm down, gees no wonder this forum turns off so many people :roll: ..........you disagree with me fine, however do it in a respectful manner, no need for you to use vulgarities with me when I didn’t use any with you.

I get your point, though he said MOST and well your post to him didn’t dispute that for even with talk radio (and yes I agree with you that your probably right on that in the U.S. radio market) and even with just Fox, it still cant detract from someone rightly saying that MOST of the U.S. media leans to liberal/left.

Remember MOST doesn’t mean ALL ;)

Shalom :D

BlackRain
07-26-2004, 08:02 PM
Is The New York Times a Liberal Newspaper?

Does a bear **** in the woods?

American Patriot
07-26-2004, 08:18 PM
Does Bill O'Reilly suck balls?

StarvingStudent47
07-27-2004, 01:56 AM
Does Bill O'Reilly suck balls?

No, but he is a big blubbering ****** (http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=bill_oreilly).

mobster
07-27-2004, 02:25 AM
StarvingStudent, first, I'm guessing by your name you have been underwhelmed by the current administration. I'm sorry if we can't give you $100,000.00 to further your carreer as a pupil who doesn't give a crap that you're not being firebombed. Or perhaps you are even a student at all, considering that the fact that other countries wouldn't want you to be a doctor, a dentist, or even a politician. Instead, you'd be expected to wear a belt not of Gucci, but of C4. And most noteably, instead of goin' home for the weekend to do your laundry, you just may have to walk up to a crowded market, and blow your sorry ass up just to make a point. While I understand your disdain to Mr. Oreilly, please understand this, you should be dancing up and down that you even have the chance to be a student, learn from some of the best teachers around, and then apply your knowledge to do good.
Some cultures just starve, and they'll never know what it's like to be a student. Cuz they just die, and also, they'll never know what it's like to log on to IE and make sure their Anti Virus works so they can post on a FREE, message board where they won't be killed by voicing their opinion.

Just sayin'.
M.

StarvingStudent47
07-27-2004, 03:21 AM
StarvingStudent, first, I'm guessing by your name you have been underwhelmed by the current administration. I'm sorry if we can't give you $100,000.00 to further your carreer as a pupil who doesn't give a crap that you're not being firebombed. Or perhaps you are even a student at all, considering that the fact that other countries wouldn't want you to be a doctor, a dentist, or even a politician. Instead, you'd be expected to wear a belt not of Gucci, but of C4. And most noteably, instead of goin' home for the weekend to do your laundry, you just may have to walk up to a crowded market, and blow your sorry ass up just to make a point. While I understand your disdain to Mr. Oreilly, please understand this, you should be dancing up and down that you even have the chance to be a student, learn from some of the best teachers around, and then apply your knowledge to do good.
Some cultures just starve, and they'll never know what it's like to be a student. Cuz they just die, and also, they'll never know what it's like to log on to IE and make sure their Anti Virus works so they can post on a FREE, message board where they won't be killed by voicing their opinion.


:roll:

All of this because I insulted Bill O'Reilly. Next time before you tell me what my views are and are not, try READING some of my posts. Because you're about 100% backward as to my political views.

Still, you must have had fun typing all that.

IDFM203
07-27-2004, 07:31 AM
The New York Times is as liberal as FoxNews is conservative. Everyone has an editorial bias. FoxNews isn't ashamed of its editorial bias. Why should the NYT be?Well I think Fox become conservative as a counter balance to the rest of the media that was liberal!!

The NYT however IMO serves no counter balance nor do they try to target a specific niche (as fox did with disgruntled right wingers that till then felt there was no TV news media that showed any objectivity towards their point of view), simply the NYT is a universal paper that is a national and international paper that supposedly doesn’t target a specific audience (as fox does with the right) and well like I said before “in reality, the paper is much more then a New York paper, for it is a universal paper and arguably the most influential paper in the world (well certainly in the U.S.) and well it would be nice or actually one can argue it would be their responsibility for them as a paper with their influence and their national and world wide audience, to try to be fair and objective to both sides (right and left) and not too one sided much more so to the left and liberal as they really are”

Shalom :D

OB Kenobi
07-27-2004, 03:39 PM
The New York Times is as liberal as FoxNews is conservative. Everyone has an editorial bias. FoxNews isn't ashamed of its editorial bias. Why should the NYT be?Well I think Fox become conservative as a counter balance to the rest of the media that was liberal!!

Liberal or whatever, the NYT was right and Bu$h was wrong.

Maybe Bu$h should learn to read.