Brazil Set to Start Shooting Down Drug Planes

[2RHPZ]

Brazil Set to Start Shooting Down Drug Planes

Jul 19, 11:47 AM (ET)

BRASILIA, Brazil (*******) - Brazil is set to start shooting down aircraft suspected of smuggling drugs across its jungles in 90 days, now that it issued a controversial new law on Monday after a six year delay.

President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva's signature on the law, which was approved by Congress in 1998, has prompted Washington to warn that it could curtail anti-drug cooperation with Brazil if it concludes there are not sufficient precautions to satisfy U.S. law.

Publication of the measure in the government's official diary on Monday starts a 90-day clock at the end of which it goes into effect.

Brazilian Defense Minister Jose Viegas has said the law is necessary to curb constant incursions by drug traffickers from neighboring countries into Brazil.

Brazil is a major transit nation and a big market itself for cocaine from Colombia and Peru. The drug trade is fueling gang violence in Brazilian cities.

Brazilian officials estimate there are more than 4,000 unregistered small aircraft flying over the Amazon jungle, a remote area larger than the continental United States.

The rule said an aircraft would only be shot down by Brazilian fighters as a "last resort" and a series of steps would be taken before the decision is taken to open fire.

The controversy grew after Peru accidentally shot down a small plane in 2001, killing an American missionary and her child.

Brazil has its own radar tracking devices and fighter jets to carry out its plans. But it would benefit from information from the United States, which currently shares with Brazil details such as departures of suspect planes.

Brazilian fighter pilots would only fire at suspect aircraft if they refuse to identify themselves, do not land and fail to respond to warning shots, at which point they would be "considered hostile and subject to destruction," according to the published law.

It said planes would only be shot down in areas where there are no population centers and where there are "routes presumably used by drug traffickers."

[duck]

A couple of thoughts:

Can someone along the chain-of-command be bought. Radar operators, officers at command centers, even some of the pilots themselves? Threats towards the family ("We know where your child goes to school") and enough money make a tempting combination.

And: If parts of the Brazilian air force are corrupted, can drug barons direct them to eliminate their competition while their own flights continue uninterrupted?

[SeanAshi]

In the Gulf of Mexico instead of allowing boats that are transporting drugs to run out of fuel then board them..they should be blown out of the water immediately.

[BR]

A couple of thoughts:

Can someone along the chain-of-command be bought. Radar operators, officers at command centers, even some of the pilots themselves? Threats towards the family ("We know where your child goes to school") and enough money make a tempting combination.

I think it's very difficult to happen due to the great number of military personel involved. Probably, they won't even belong to the same air base (ex. radar operator is from one and the pilots are from another one).

The Air Force and the pilots were asking for the assinature of the law a long time ago, and I'm sure they did it for monetary reasons (use the law for sell themselves) . . . They are anxious to do their job!


And: If parts of the Brazilian air force are corrupted, can drug barons direct them to eliminate their competition while their own flights continue uninterrupted?

I've never heard anything like that (sometimes, unhappyly corrupted police officers do that . . .). There are no "parts" corrupted in the armed forces.

May be an officer or few of them. in the past, some officers were condemned for drug trafficking using military planes to carry cocaine to Spain. I think it could happen anywhere.

[usa320]

I think this is definately a good thing.

Destroying the central American drug trade where it flourishes is the only way to win the broader war on drugs.

Drugs are bad, bad things.

People get hooked. They lose heir jobs. They sell drugs. They go to jail. They Cant start over new again because they are now felons. So all they can do is start selling drugs again... Its a vicious circle for the most part.

Only way to break it is to keep the drugs out of the country in the first place.

[ronin2172]

the theory is nice but it isn't so simple....u close one avenue another one opens...and all it's gonna do is push up the price and make dealers even richer

[BR]

Destroying the central American drug trade where it flourishes is the only way to win the broader war on drugs.

Sorry, but it isn't the only way. The drug trade will exist wherever there are consumers for its products.

Prevention, information and coercitives measures walk together in this long journey.


Only way to break it is to keep the drugs out of the country in the first place.

Talking about US, it may be possible, although very difficult to achieve it.

The drugs dealers will find others consuming markets, like Europe (every week, the brazilian police makes drugs apprehensions on the airports, with 'passengers' to there, specially to Madrid and Amsterdan). Or even inside here. Brazil actually is the second country, after US, in cocaine consuming.

[Roger Rabbit]

I once did some work(making cups of tea and that sort of thing) for a company that takes food and medical stuff to starving/ill people around the world. Some charity organisation. Anyway one of their pilots got shot down over Peru i think or somewhere in South America and their wife was killed and their daughter lost a foot. The people who shot them down thought they were drug smugglers.

[BR]

I once did some work(making cups of tea and that sort of thing) for a company that takes food and medical stuff to starving/ill people around the world. Some charity organisation. Anyway one of their pilots got shot down over Peru i think or somewhere in South America and their wife was killed and their daughter lost a foot. The people who shot them down thought they were drug smugglers.

This history you told is very similar to this one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1294490.stm

After this incident, the Peruvian Air Force stopped to shot down suspects airplanes.

[Roger Rabbit]

That could well be it. The missionaries worked for a company called MAF(Mission Aviation Fellowship).

[oldsoak]

I'd assume the Brazilians would have reliable procedures in place to make sure shootdowns of innocent parties does not take place.

[abncougar]

are there SF guys down there fighting the war on drugs??

[BR]

I'd assume the Brazilians would have reliable procedures in place to make sure shootdowns of innocent parties does not take place.

I can assure you all safeties measures were taken for the Defense Ministery.

The shootdowns aren't the first option to our pilots and it doesn't mean the death penalty without a trial.

Before the pilots may shoot the illegal plane they have to follow eight procedures, like identify the plane and its route; trying communication by the radio on international emergency frequency; visual contact; warning shots. Finally the shootdown.

The illegal plane only can be shootdown in an empty area (it's forbbiden do it in a crowded area) in the middle of the jungle it isn't going to be difficult! ;)

Although here isn't the photos section I thought interesting show you all some pictures of "ALX - Super Tucano", wich is going to be used in these missions:

http://mediamanager.embraer.com.br/midias/imagem/preview/1_030301_0059_p_RGB.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/super_tucano/images/EMB-314_super_tucano3.jpg

In the Brazilian Air Force, ALX aircraft will be used for missions including border patrol of the Amazon area.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/super_tucano/images/EMB-314supertucanopayload6.jpg

The ALX can be armed with guided air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles and bombs.

More information, in english: http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/super_tucano/

[2RHPZ]

I'd assume the Brazilians would have reliable procedures in place to make sure shootdowns of innocent parties does not take place.

I can assure you all safeties measures were taken for the Defense Ministery.

The shootdowns aren't the first option to our pilots and it doesn't mean the death penalty without a trial.

Before the pilots may shoot the illegal plane they have to follow eight procedures, like identify the plane and its route; trying communication by the radio on international emergency frequency; visual contact; warning shots. Finally the shootdown.

The illegal plane only can be shootdown in an empty area (it's forbbiden do it in a crowded area) in the middle of the jungle it isn't going to be difficult! ;)

Although here isn't the photos section I thought interesting show you all some pictures of "ALX - Super Tucano", wich is going to be used in these missions:


The ALX can be armed with guided air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles and bombs.

More information, in english: http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/super_tucano/

BR, thanx for additional informations straight from the area of interest ...

[BR]

BR, thanx for additional informations straight from the area of interest ...

I just did my job and I have to thank you to bring this subject up to the forum!

Funny avatar, CAG!

[instantmilkshake]

What if druglords arm their airplanes. Then we would have air battles over Brazil!

[oldsoak]

Good photos BR :) !

[BR]

What if druglords arm their airplanes. Then we would have air battles over Brazil!

:cantbeli:

The Brazilian Air Force pilots would love this situation, because they wouldn't do the whole procedure.

In case of attack or an armed plane shootdown the illegal plane would be self-defense. And to do it any law isn't necessary (in any country). It's a matter of sovereignty!! (It's the same case if a criminal shoot at a police officer).

[BR]

Good photos BR :) !

Thanks! :)

[martinexsquaddie]

the war on drugs is a joke.
Having worked in a hostel in a small seaside town in the UK never had the situation where a junkies complained I can't get hold of any drugs today :(
People start doing drugs because they make the feel good. while theres a demand for drugs your not going to stop the supply.
In my experience alcoholics are more dangerous than heroin addicts.

[oldsoak]

I must confess that cannabis users dont get violent while under the influence, unlike alcoholics. I've been told heroin users under the influence are not a problem - its when they are looking for cash to fund the habit thats the problem.

[BR]

I found this pic about other missions accomplished by Brazilian Air Force:

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/2703799.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=F1F1007BA73D115B44163C62204686DF


Caption:
SAO GABRIEL DA CACHOEIRA, BRAZIL: A clandestine landing strip used by drug traffickers is bombed by Brazilian F 5 fighter-bombers 05 November 2003 near Sao Jose da Cachoeira, in the Brazilian Amazon region close to the Venezuelan border. Brazilian Federal Police are destroying clandestine runways in Amazon as part of a plan to fight drug traffickers who use this region as a corridor to pass drugs mostly from Colombia, Peru and Bolivia, across Brazil to Europe. AFP PHOTO/ANTONIO MILENA/RADIOBRAS (Photo credit should read ANTONIO MILENA/AFP/***** Images)