Full right to bear arms?

[gilgoul]

take frmlater o this thread:

Hey guys, don`t make me regret this thread , I was talking about some basic things, not about militia`s taking over .
I tend to agree with the stunt of secret squirel on this one, and wasn`t only talking about an american issue but a universal one, so please, no thread jacking and read the original one



I have a few reflections about fire arms possesion and carrying, and I wanted to share them, get your feedback guys, in order to know where I exactly stand in this sphere.

I believe in the right to own and carry a firearm, with certain limitation thought.
To me it doesn`t really matter wich weapon as long as it is reasonable.
I don`t think there would be any reasonable reason for a private person to own a SAM7 or an ATGM in order of use.
As for the number of arms, owning a reasonable amount (let say up to 15 in order of function, if more having important pieces, like the bolt, maintained in a separate safe place) should be granted, but not allowing individuals to equip entire armies.
But my main concern is about education, I hate when pseudo liberals promote a ban on fire arms, this infringes seriously on ones capacity to defend himself and his family. The problem is that often the discourse of the NRA, or other weaker but equivalent groups in europe/Israel, sounds too "gun ho" and scares people who would be potential suporters of the right to carry arms.
Last but not least, this right to own a weapon and carry it should be conditional on passing a shooting and safety examination,just like to drive a car you need a driving licence, It doesn`t mean you won`t provoke an accident, but it provides you with the means to avoid provoking an accident if you follow the rules, in order to avoid the stupid accidents that offer so many arguments to the anti gun militants.
Just some thoughts :oops:

[khukuri]

How are the laws in israel?

[duck]

Some thoughts by independent minds. ;)

http://www.michiganmilitia.com/AWBAN.html

SUNSET THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN IN SEPTEMBER 2004

In September, 2004, the "Assault Weapons" ban will expire. It is up to each of us to make sure that it does.

We are now in the year in which the stupidly ineffective and freedom violating 1994 so-called "Assault Weapons" ban will expire. There are possibly 100 million gun owners in this country, and if we were all on the same page of music, every gun banning legislator, judge, and other public official would have been thrown out on their collective backsides for even proposing the ban in the first place.

We must all work to ensure the expiration of this "law". There are several things you can do. The more you can do, the better, but you should promise yourself to at least do something.

One of the first things you should consider is joining a national gun rights group. Between the NRA and GOA, GOA is definitely more in tune with my own personal beliefs, but simple-minded moronic congresspeople don't reason that way. Many of them will simply look at the membership numbers of the NRA before deciding how to vote on an issue. Try to stomach the NRA for just one year if you can. A huge surge in NRA membership will get their attention, and might back a few people away from supporting the re-authorization of the ban. JPFO is also one of the best groups out there, and no, you do not have to be Jewish to join them.

You may also consider joining a gun rights group in your state. MCRGO is a growing group here in Michigan that certainly merits consideration.

Online, there are many web sites with lots of useful information about sunsetting the assault weapons ban. Two of my favorites are www.keepandbeararms.com and www.awbansunset.com. There are many more out there, but these two are excellent places to start.

Another simple thing is to contact your representatives. Letters or postcards are best (please be advised that I work for the Post Office, so I will always encourage this...), but contact them any way you wish. Avoid lengthy discussions or arguments. A brightly colored, attention-getting postcard that simply says, "Please do not vote for the re-authorization of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban" would be easy to produce. Send one to your Representative and one to your Senator.

Send letters to the editor urging people to support the expiration of the ban. You can bet that the anti-gunners will be doing this, and we have to counter their efforts with sane and reasoned measures of our own. There is plenty of ammunition for this, as far as studies to cite and simple, logical arguments to make. Do not come across as an enraged lunatic. Be calm, simple, and logical. Even the above mentioned postcard can be sent to your local paper.

Order several copies of JPFO's new movie "Innocents Betrayed" and show it to your friends and neighbors. This should help convince them of the evils of gun control. Go to www.jpfo.org or you can find an order form in The Shotgun News. Heck, order several copies and give them away.

Buy more guns and ammo. Somebody tracks this kind of thing. I don't think I need to be urging "militia people" to buy more guns and ammo, but if your spouse/parent/whoever complains, then show them this column and say, "See, honey, I MUST buy this, because it says so in the militia newsletter/webpage."

Buy a used military surplus bolt action rifle for someone who does not have a gun. Take them shooting. This can be your kid, nephew, buddy, significant other, or whomever. Developing a new corps of dedicated shooting enthusiasts starts with getting more people involved, especially younger people. You never know if that youngster is going to turn out to be a fiercely dedicated gun rights activist, instructor, or militia dude. Get more people involved, and we will not need to worry about these stupid bans in the future.
These are just a few small steps that we can take (by "we" I mean all of us, Lottie, Dottie, and everybody) to get our boots on the ban and stomp it into oblivion. If you have more ideas, send them in and we will run them both in the newsletter and on the web page until the ban expires.

-Lee

[American Patriot]

A well-regulated miltia, being necessary to defedn the security of a Free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Are we the miltia? If so imo you should have the right to buy similar arms that an infantryman can use to be effective with no restrictions on limits unless you choose to equip your own private armed group and TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

[aartamen]

Who needs the whole world? Just one or few diamond rich countries in the middle of nowhere.

[Secret Squirrel]

A well-regulated miltia, being necessary to defedn the security of a Free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Are we the miltia? If so imo you should have the right to buy similar arms that an infantryman can use to be effective with no restrictions on limits unless you choose to equip your own private armed group and TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

The Homer Simpson argument..."If I didn't have this gun, the King of England could just walk in here anytime he wants and start shoving you around...would you like that? huh? huh?" rofl

[gilgoul]

Hey guys, don`t make me regret this thread :P , I was talking about some basic things, not about militia`s taking over :( .
I tend to agree with the stunt of secret squirel on this one, and wasn`t only talking about an american issue but a universal one, so please, no thread jacking and read the original one :hug:

[molly747]

As for a ban on assault weapons, what about collectors? I know that sounds lame, but there are people out there that do collect guns. I didn't grow up in a home with a gun, so I can't really speak from experience. Heck, I don't even know much about guns, rifles, etc. But I've always found it interesting about the whole "militia" debate. The world back in the founding fathers' day was very different from now. Then again, I'm all for the government keeping its nose out of citizens' lives. Go figure. This topic will rage on until the end of time, much like abortion.

[MEGR]

I like owning guns, but there is no need for any gun owner to roam the shooting ranges with a fully auto RPD, or a carry an M2 in their jeep for hunting. If the AWB ban lifts or not, it won't matter. The only thing that it really affects is the price of certain firearms.. I mean, I don't like the ban, but I won't kill myself if it's extended.

[Abolith]

I am glad the ban is going to expire. I myself am one of those "Gun nuts". I collect firearms as doesmany in my family. I have only a half dozen but others in the family who have collections around the lower three digits. My uncle even has a Maxim M1910 (fully functional) and a DS-39 (not quite functional, but we are working on it). we have taken the Maxim out to the range and blasted the crap outta targets and it was fun. I liked roaming the range with a maxim. it was fun :D


I should probably note that they are NOT completely originals. The maxim is a complete replica (one that works tho) and the DS-39 is only about 20% original, if even that.

[aartamen]

I liked roaming the range with a maxim. it was fun :D



I probably work out.

[cut]

This topic will rage on until the end of time, much like abortion.

I don't know about that neither topic is under discussion here.

[kitty tiger]

Problem had always been who gona use it first? Morally good guys may be thinking they just got one more option to "defend themselves", but in reality it is always the bad guys who use the arms to attack first.

ANd one more thing, it doesn't matter how many pieces of weapon an individual is limited to, it is the effect it has that matters. A grenade exploding in a crowd is far more damaging than one exploding in an empty field. So purely judging on the h/w itself cannot be a foundation for ethical laws.

[Nawlins]

Just started reading Seven Myths of Gun Control by Richard Poe. Very informative. I'll stop in with my opinions when I've finished it.

[ibstolidude]

Just started reading Seven Myths of Gun Control by Richard Poe. Very informative. I'll stop in with my opinions when I've finished it.
John Stossel did a great series of pieces on debunking common American myths. One of the pieces titled : Myth No. 3 — Guns are Bad


America is notorious for its culture of gun violence. Guns sometimes do cause terrible harm, and many kids are killed every year in gun accidents. But public service announcements and news stories make it seem as if the accidents kill thousands of kids every year.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, however, fewer than 100 kids 15 and under are killed in gun accidents every year. Of course that's horrible, and I understand why demonstrators say we need more gun control.

But guess what? The Centers for Disease Control recently completed a review of studies of various types of gun control: background checks, waiting periods, bans on certain guns and ammunition. It could not document that these rules have reduced violent crime.

The government wants to say things like the Brady Gun Control Law are making a difference, but they aren't. Some maximum security felons I spoke to in New Jersey scoffed at measures like the Brady law. They said they'll have no trouble getting guns if they want them.

A Justice Department study confirmed what the prisoners said. But get this: the felons say that the thing they fear the most is not the police, not time in prison, but, you, another American who might be armed.

It's a reason many states are passing gun un-control. They're allowing citizens to carry guns with them; it's called concealed carry or right to carry. Some women say they're comforted by these laws.

Many people are horrified at the idea of concealed carry laws, and predict mayhem if all states adopt these laws.

But surprise, 36 states already have concealed carry laws, and not one reported an upsurge in gun crime.
That is just a portion - the piece actually states the statistic of legally registered weapons used in crime v/s illegal weapons, the shocking high statistics of crimes deterred by legally registered weapons. The number of CCW states in now around 45.

Seeing the actually CDC's statistics and research, and the like, actually surprised me and I am very moderate on this issue

[Abolith]

Just started reading Seven Myths of Gun Control by Richard Poe. Very informative. I'll stop in with my opinions when I've finished it.
John Stossel did a great series of pieces on debunking common American myths. One of the pieces titled : Myth No. 3 — Guns are Bad


America is notorious for its culture of gun violence. Guns sometimes do cause terrible harm, and many kids are killed every year in gun accidents. But public service announcements and news stories make it seem as if the accidents kill thousands of kids every year.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, however, fewer than 100 kids 15 and under are killed in gun accidents every year. Of course that's horrible, and I understand why demonstrators say we need more gun control.

But guess what? The Centers for Disease Control recently completed a review of studies of various types of gun control: background checks, waiting periods, bans on certain guns and ammunition. It could not document that these rules have reduced violent crime.

The government wants to say things like the Brady Gun Control Law are making a difference, but they aren't. Some maximum security felons I spoke to in New Jersey scoffed at measures like the Brady law. They said they'll have no trouble getting guns if they want them.

A Justice Department study confirmed what the prisoners said. But get this: the felons say that the thing they fear the most is not the police, not time in prison, but, you, another American who might be armed.

It's a reason many states are passing gun un-control. They're allowing citizens to carry guns with them; it's called concealed carry or right to carry. Some women say they're comforted by these laws.

Many people are horrified at the idea of concealed carry laws, and predict mayhem if all states adopt these laws.

But surprise, 36 states already have concealed carry laws, and not one reported an upsurge in gun crime.
That is just a portion - the piece actually states the statistic of legally registered weapons used in crime v/s illegal weapons, the shocking high statistics of crimes deterred by legally registered weapons. The number of CCW states in now around 45.

Seeing the actually CDC's statistics and research, and the like, actually surprised me and I am very moderate on this issue

i saw that piece and at first I thought it was going to be another "Gun Owners=Evil people" but was very surprised. he did a good job debunking each myth one by one. My hat is off to him for being a good reporter (word is that he, himself does not like guns but he still did this piece).

[Obergefreiter]

Since I moved here 12 years ago I have have been a serious firarms collector. I have over 450 firearms from pistols, a few shotguns, many rifles, many of what would be considered "assault weapons" and 5 class III weapons. (Machineguns and Machine pistoles)

I have a working panzersreck (no rockets though) This is also class III.

I personally do not care what a person wants to own. I have never used one in a crime, or even thought of it.

I could arm well over a Comapny of soldiers with my weapons and munitions.

Will I do it? No, not unless we are invaded and it is a string need, and I do not see this happening durring my life or soon after.

My thought, if you are not mentaly deficiant, or have a record of violent crime you should be able to own what ever you want. I really do not care if you are walking down the street with a Maxim or a Lorcin or an M2. If you can but it, you can have it.

No laws have ever worked, criminals and the legal buyers just go around them or ignore them.

The only difference the expiration of the ban will mean to me is that I can now retro-fit bayonet lugs on a few of my rifles, and the new rifles will come with them.

What will I do with a bayonet lug? Not a damn thing, I just want it because for the past ten years I have been told that I can not have this useless feature.