US protect members of terror org --BBC

[khukuri]

US is not handing over those members in the Mujahideen khalq terror classed organisation.
Theese guys used to do raids in iran. I remember once they tried to attack a police station with mortars, firing somewhat 5 rounds all of them not hitting the police station but civil areas.

Now the US dont hand them over. Well it seems okay for USA to grab terrorists supspects and jail them in guantanamo without a trial but Iran cant have handed over Iranian terrorists to her.


And no, I´m not in favor for having them dealt injust with and executed but this just shows hypocricy from the US.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3928499.stm




US 'protects' Iran rebels in Iraq


The People's Mujahideen opposed Iran's Government
The US has granted "protected status" under the Geneva Conventions to 3,800 members of an Iranian opposition group interned in Iraq.
This meant that People's Mujahideen's fighters were not considered belligerents during the Iraq war, State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said.

But the new status did not affect the US view that the group was a terrorist organisation, Mr Ereli said.

Iran said the decision undermined US claims to be fighting terrorist groups.


Controversial move

"We have determined that they were not belligerents in this conflict and we are according them the human rights protections consistent with the Geneva Conventions," Mr Ereli said in Washington.

The new status gives the militants access to the Red Cross and the United Nations refugee agency.

But it will not protect any individuals who are suspected of carrying out terrorist acts.

About 3,000 members of the People's Mujahideen were disarmed by the US-led coalition after Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was removed from power last year.

They are being held in Camp Ashraf, northeast of Baghdad.

Tehran wants the militants sent to Iran but human rights organisations say they will face persecution if that happens.

Previously, the Iraqi authorities have said they wanted the group to be expelled.

The controversy highlights the group's rather awkward position, the BBC's Pentagon correspondent Nick Childs says. He adds that what will ultimately happen to the fighters is not clear.

Washington says it is working with the Iraqi government and international organisations to find a solution

Thorn in side

The People's Mujahideen, or Mujahideen-e Khalq, has been a thorn in Tehran's side for more than two decades.

A militant organisation, whose ideology combines elements of both Marxism and Islam, the group based itself in Iraq after being expelled from Iran.

Members then carried out cross-border raids into Iran, which fought a war with Iraq between 1980 and 1988.

Although the group kept out of this year's US-led Iraq war, their bases were bombed by US warplanes but after negotiations they reached a truce with the Americans.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Interesting.

Remember that the US widely regards the regime in Tehran as terrorists. So the question is; is a terrorist who attacks terrorists a terrorist?

I would say that if they are attacking civilian targets - then yes, they would be terrorists, no matter what country they attack. Terrorism is an indication of the methods employed, not the goals of an organization.

Ok, so then is it proper to hand terrorists over to other terrorists to face "justice"? This is not so easy, as it can be pretty well assumed what would become of them. Remember that many European nations have refused to hand over criminals to the US, where they may face execution for their crimes. So this is not without precedent.

If we deliver these people into a situation that we know is not just and fair...than we could be held responsible for their fate. But we are stuck with them for the time being. My guess is that the US will be eager to make this an Iran - Iraq only issue, and back away from it slowly.

[Navy]

Lenin: STFU and stop flaming. This is just another flame-topic created by YOU.

[SpazzMunky]

Theyre good terrorists now, since we're using them. Like Osama was :P

[khukuri]

First of all this organisation is listed by the Un eu and even the us i think as an terror org.


If we deliver these people into a situation that we know is not just and fair...than we could be held responsible for their fate.

Well thats a problem. But the same problem many europians where in some time ago. US accuses persons without handing over

Re
member that the US widely regards the regime in Tehran as terrorists.

Iran is another state, member of the un and yada yada ya


NAVY

whats you big problem
I find this a very interesting situation!

When posts come about other states holding terrorists its okay to discuss the matter. but when its about the US your not allowed to critisice ot discuss the matter?

look somewhere else idiot

[Nizark]

Hey, to be blunt, we could possibly use them in the future...maybe fund them, or to back up the students.

Hypocracy? The US government?? Never. Talk **** about something we don't know rofl rofl rofl rofl

[Navy]

Lenin: You are allowed to discuss the matter, and no, im not only defending the US.

The problem Im having with you is that you only seem to post flame-topics and use words that can lead into a flame war.

Please post, but do it with caution and repsect.

In Swedish: Eller sunt förnuft som vi säger på svenska!

[Pooga]

Theyre good terrorists now, since we're using them. Like Osama was :P

That's why people think us Californians are fruits (juuuuust kidding). Do you live in Berkeley? p-)

Lenin, I think that kid is going to accidentally blow somebody's head off with that QBZ when that itchy trigger finger spazzes.

[Midav]

As was pointed out, Iran is considered a terrorist state, so it's interesting that a terrorist state wants to get its hands on terrorists heh

[khukuri]

Lenin: You are allowed to discuss the matter, and no, im not only defending the US.

The problem Im having with you is that you only seem to post flame-topics and use words that can lead into a flame war.

Please post, but do it with caution and repsect.

In Swedish: Eller sunt förnuft som vi säger på svenska!

well then I understand what you mean. hadebra

[OB Kenobi]

As was pointed out, Iran is considered a terrorist state, so it's interesting that a terrorist state wants to get its hands on terrorists heh

The US is a terrorist state and claims to be fighting a "war on terror," I find that even more ironic.

We need to deal with the terrorists in our government before we can even hope to defeat foreign terror. Time and again our very own leaders have helped foment terror and chaos which has come back to harm us.

What has this policy accomplished, besides make some people rich?

“I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar soaked fingers out of the business of these [Third World] nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own. And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the ‘haves’ refuse to share with the ‘have-nots’ by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don’t want and above all don’t want crammed down their throats by Americans.”

— General David Sharp
former United States Marine Commandant
1966

[SpazzMunky]

Theyre good terrorists now, since we're using them. Like Osama was :P

That's why people think us Californians are fruits (juuuuust kidding). Do you live in Berkeley? p-)
haha, not berkely. I dont think I;m that insane of a left winger :)

[Pooga]

Whoa, I'm a sponsor of terrorism? Holy schnykies, Batman! :oops:


Does that make you The Great Crusader of Light and All that is Good?

[BlackRain]

Now the US dont hand them over. Well it seems okay for USA to grab terrorists supspects and jail them in guantanamo without a trial but Iran cant have handed over Iranian terrorists to her.


And no, I´m not in favor for having them dealt injust with and executed but this just shows hypocricy from the US.


Why do you hate the USA so much?

For what reason should the USA turn over terrorists to Iran?

Don't you realize that Iran currently has terrorists under "house arrest" that were involved in the planning and execution of 9-11 and has refused every effort to turn them over?

Why should the US extend Iran a diplomatic favor when Iran protects terrorists?



But U.S. officials say they are concerned about the increasing evidence of possible Iranian connections to the 9/11 attacks, noting that as many as 10 top Al Qaeda operatives, including Saad bin Laden and another top bin Laden deputy, Said Al-Adel, fled to Iran after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in the fall of 2001. The Al Qaeda operatives are believed to be in some sort of government custody, most likely house arrest. But the Iranian government has repeatedly rebuffed U.S. entreaties to turn over the Al Qaeda leaders, and some U.S. intelligence officials believe they may be still supervising terror operations—especially in Saudi Arabia—through the use of couriers. “This is an evolving story,” said one U.S. official about the evidence of possible Iranian ties to Al Qaeda.

Source: More Evidence of an Iran-Al Qaeda Connection (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5479438/site/newsweek/)

[SeanAshi]

Well it seems okay for USA to grab terrorists supspects and jail them in guantanamo without a trialDon't worry Lenin they will get a trial maybe several years from now but don't hold your breath.
Don't you realize that Iran currently has terrorists under "house arrest"Some of the al-Qaeda terrorist who were offered amnesty in Saudi Arabia have been hiding out in Iran.

[One?]

Why are you all flaming Lenin for trying to discuss a very contradicting topic?


MK is a terrorist organization according to the US. Why aren't they going after them, or atleast dismanteling them? I thought it was a war against terrorism.

If you don't have anything constructive to say keep it to yourself.

[hahaha]

"An enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine" - use whatever means you have at your disposal to fight a common enemy and WIN.

[Secret Squirrel]

"An enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine" - use whatever means you have at your disposal to fight a common enemy and WIN.

Oh yea that always works out for the best (ie. Iraq). :roll:

[hahaha]

Didn't know that the coalition was using 'terrorists' to fight their war in Iraq. Examples ?

[Secret Squirrel]

Didn't know that the coalition was using 'terrorists' to fight their war in Iraq. Examples ?

I was responding to your saying "An enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine." The Baath party was put into power in 1963 with help from the CIA because at the time it was the lesser of two evils (ie. the Baath party was an enemy of the current group in power in Iraq).

[khukuri]

Didn't know that the coalition was using 'terrorists' to fight their war in Iraq. Examples ?

I was responding to your saying "An enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine." The Baath party was put into power in 1963 with help from the CIA because at the time it was the lesser of two evils (ie. the Baath party was an enemy of the current group in power in Iraq).

not many americans would admit that today. Thankl you for posting that out secret..


and hahaha

maybe you remember another case were "enemy of my enemy..." Well hmm wasnt Osama bin laden once .... you get it

[SeanAshi]

[quote]Why are you all flaming Lenin for trying to discuss a very contradicting topic?
[code]Because we are hypocrites. ;)

[SeanAshi]

[quote]Why are you all flaming Lenin for trying to discuss a very contradicting topic?
[code]Because we are hypocrites. ;)

[CRAZY MERC]

For what reason should the USA turn over terrorists to Iran?
Maybe because they are terrorists? :lol:

[DE_Six]

not many americans would admit that today. Thankl you for posting that out secret..



Wrong. Remember the picture of Rumsfeld with Saddam that circulated a while ago? Well, it circulated...a lot.

The US involvment with Iraq has never been a secret to Americans. You might have heard of the Iran-Contra affair, a well-publicized media circus in the 1980s, about missile sales to Iran (that was during the Iran-Iraq war and shortly after the hostage crisis) to finance latin american guerrillas. The American public was very well aware of who was the lesser of the tow evils in that affair (Iraq).

Don't let the wartime rhetoric fool you, the American people are better informed of their country's actions and policies than you might suspect. In fact, most of the shady deals and blunders the left like to point out are brought to attention by Americans (ie Bob Baer, Daniel Ellsberg, etc). American political analysts also tend to be their own country's most serious and fiercest critics.

[khukuri]

DE6

Well i dont live in america and maybe your right. I was just remembering some long time ago when the issue was discussed and I mentioned it. I answers like " are you a dumg **** and so on

but that was maybe just the kiddies that used to run around on this forum.

[Midav]

As was pointed out, Iran is considered a terrorist state, so it's interesting that a terrorist state wants to get its hands on terrorists heh

The US is a terrorist state and claims to be fighting a "war on terror," I find that even more ironic.

We need to deal with the terrorists in our government before we can even hope to defeat foreign terror. Time and again our very own leaders have helped foment terror and chaos which has come back to harm us.

What has this policy accomplished, besides make some people rich?

“I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar soaked fingers out of the business of these [Third World] nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own. And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the ‘haves’ refuse to share with the ‘have-nots’ by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don’t want and above all don’t want crammed down their throats by Americans.”

— General David Sharp
former United States Marine Commandant
1966

By most any individual standard, any nation can be considered a terrorist state rofl

[BlackRain]

"An enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine" - use whatever means you have at your disposal to fight a common enemy and WIN.

Oh yea that always works out for the best (ie. Iraq). :roll:

It worked for the best in WWII.

The USA and the Soviets partnered up to remove Hilter from power! (and they were not the best of friends)

[SeanAshi]

The USA and the Soviets partnered up to remove Hilter from power!At first the Soviets were partered with Hitler :cantbeli: Then the Nazi's caught the Soviets with their pants down and it cost them big time.

[Secret Squirrel]

"An enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine" - use whatever means you have at your disposal to fight a common enemy and WIN.

Oh yea that always works out for the best (ie. Iraq). :roll:

It worked for the best in WWII.

The USA and the Soviets partnered up to remove Hilter from power! (and they were not the best of friends)

Oh yea and that Cold War was just a walk in the park. :roll:

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

It worked for the best in WWII.

The USA and the Soviets partnered up to remove Hilter from power! (and they were not the best of friends)

Hmmm I didnt know the Soviets and Americans did it all by themselves :roll:

Interesting topic to say the least.

[Midav]

They're talking about the quote "The enemey of my enemy is my friend".

Yes, there have been many cases when unlikely partners teamed up to fight a common for.

[n4292936]

This is another fine example of how we are forfeiting the moral high ground at a time when we least afford to do so. If America expects to not be accurately labeled a hypocritical nation then when it condemns terrorism is should do so categorically and even handedly. When it harbours groups like this it legitimises the stance of countries like Syria who are harbouring their own favourites. I wonder if Powell has trouble condemning terrorism and/or Syria in the UN with a straight face?

[SeanAshi]

I wonder if Powell has trouble condemning terrorism and/or Syria in the UN with a straight face?No trouble at all. ;)

[Midav]

As much as some say the US is hypocritical, it's also hypocritical of Iran.

Hezbollah anyone...?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

What do you expect out of Iran though? This is yet another country that's been helped into power thats came back to haunt you in the future.

Anyone kmnow the amount of money that was given to both Iran and Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war? (side note..not trying to push this off of topic)

[Midav]

It's not so much us that it's haunting, as it is the mid east. I'm sure they'll come around one day. Most Iranians I met were pretty cool when I was overseas. Could actually sit down with most, have some beers and just talk.

The Persians seem to be more "liberal" than their Arab neighbours.

[SeanAshi]

What do you expect out of Iran though? This is yet another country that's been helped into power thats came back to haunt you in the future.
We helped the Shaw of Iran not the Islamic radicals that took over.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

That goes to show even though the intentions are good, things can go bad.

[n4292936]

What do you expect out of Iran though? This is yet another country that's been helped into power thats came back to haunt you in the future.
We helped the Shaw of Iran not the Islamic radicals that took over. We helped the Shah of Iran overthrow the democratically elected government. When the populace of Iran got fed up with having a dictator in power against the people's will the resorted to the unfortunate style of governance we find in Iran today. During those tumultuous days during the revolution they took US hostages because they were afraid the US would again try to impose the government it wanted Iran to have. That the Ayatollahs are in power is due in no small part to the US backed imposition of the Shah. I think that was his point.

[khukuri]

As much as some say the US is hypocritical, it's also hypocritical of Iran.

Hezbollah anyone...?

You put Iran and US on the same level? Geez not even I do that-

[White_Bear]

eee,very stupd questions - why USA should hand over people who fight with Iran??? These people don't fight with US but with their enemy.

You should think before you ask so stupid question again.

[khukuri]

eee,very stupd questions - why USA should hand over people who fight with Iran??? These people don't fight with US but with their enemy.

You should think before you ask so stupid question again. :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

[BlackRain]

Oh yea and that Cold War was just a walk in the park. :roll:

Yeah I would actually.

Did you forget that the World War II resulted in the untimely deaths of approximately 55.5 million people? Caused famine, property destruction, genocide, etc....