Unknown Nazi Couple

[largewar]

Here is a typical "idyllic" prewar photo of a Nazi couple, but who are they really?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=122492&cid=1&stc=1

[nemowork]

Dunno who, the uniform looks political like its SA or one of its sub-formations rather then SS but thats a serious medal collection.

It cant be later than 1934 though because the single shoulder board was discontinued and the double one was introduced about then.

[eques]

He looks like Martin Bormann.

[LineDoggie]

your best bet is figure out what Neck order that is and go from there. It looks to be imperial in nature with a crown, Maybe Saxony?

[nemowork]

Can't be Bormann, he was never in combat so i dont think he picked up any decorations?

[LineDoggie]

There's a Crown just above the tip of the Cross. would make that Imperial in Nature. Either Austro-Hungarian, or Imperial German from one of the States I'm guessing. Since Germany tends towards Maltese crosses, this should be easier to ID.

[nemowork]

From the shape of the right collar insignia its either an eagle or the three oak loaves, the extension below it could be the branch so that would make him a Gruppenfuhrer?

That might make him Gottlob Berger, i dont know what rank he was in about 34 but the nose and face look right?


(http://www.imagesocket.com/view/gottlob_berger738.JPG)http://content.imagesocket.com/images/gottlob_berger738.JPG (http://imagesocket.com/view/gottlob_berger738.JPG)

http://content.imagesocket.com/images/Gottlob_Berger485.jpg (http://imagesocket.com/view/Gottlob_Berger485.jpg)

[LineDoggie]

I doubt it, his hairline is futher back in the color picture than Bergers in 44

[nemowork]

http://www.imagesocket.com/view/gottlob_berger738.JPG%3C/a%3EYou might be right on the hairline, the 1934 guy does seem to have a higher hairline and higher cheeks/jowls. (http://www.imagesocket.com/view/gottlob_berger738.JPG)

And now i look closer the black eagle in Bergers 1939 social welfare cross looks far larger than the one in the throat cross. That might be a German Red cross award?

http://content.imagesocket.com/images/MedalDRKCrossF_small8c0.jpg (http://imagesocket.com/view/MedalDRKCrossF_small8c0.jpg)

Dunno, the chin, jawline and ears still look right though?


http://www.imagesocket.com/view/Gottlob_Berger485.jpg%3C/a%3E

(http://www.imagesocket.com/view/Gottlob_Berger485.jpg)

[Birsanc]

Could it be Erhard Raus?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Raus

[specialweapons]

They obviously fit the perfect description of the Arayan race.

[LineDoggie]

Could it be Erhard Raus?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_RausNo, the man pictured is a Political official(Golden Pheasant), not an Army Officer.

[He219]

That might make him Gottlob Berger, i dont know what rank he was in about 34 but the nose and face look right?

x2
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=122492&cid=1&stc=1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/mpnet/28167716ae86f0c560.jpg
Same posture & grin

[JUNKHO]

First picture is so clear and vivid it looks like it was recently taken of a couple dressed in the time period clothing.

[nemowork]

I dont know, all that colour fade was giving me real headaches. I'd got as far as writing this


I thought i had a perfect candidate if that wasnt gruppenfuhrer tabs but SA Reichsfuhrer, gerhard Wagner Reichgesundsheitsfuhrer (I love that tile but it makes me want to sneeze:)) who got an iron cross in WW1, worked for the German red cross and got his Reichsfuhrer position in 34 but it turns out he's a piggy faced guy with a caterpillar moustache so no joy.

Looking at it another way, the red of the armband has washed out but was definately red and the collar tabs dont match that. The uniform tie is black and the faded colour matches the insert on the throat medal and the tabs dont match that so he probably isnt SS still wearing an SA tunic or from the Berlin SA.

That leaves other colour codes for the tabs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniforms_and_insignia_of_the_Sturmabteilung


Red and Gold: SA Chief of Staff
Red and White: SA Supreme Command
Red: SA Group Staff
Yellow: Schlesien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlesien) Group
Green: Thüringen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuringia) Group
Blue: Hesse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesse) Group
Brown: Westmark Group
Light Blue: Hochland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hochland) Group
Orange: Südwest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_direction) Group
Pink: Alpenland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alps) Group
Light Blue (Gold Pip): Sudeten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland) Group
Black: Berlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin)-Brandenburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg) Group

On the other hand NSDAP party tabs all have an eagle over the insignia which SA tabs don't so the chances are he's a gruppenfuhrer in the SA, i can't see enough of the other tab to recognise a shape unless its just a mirror of the three oak leaves?

The single shoulder board was introduced in 1930 and changed to two in 1934ish so that dates it reasonably well.

He's wearing what looks like an Iron cross, a second cross style medal of lower value beside it and the mystery throat decoration. Ive looked through German catalogues and most of theirs are Maltese crosses like you said except for German red cross or fire brigade medals and the fire brigade medals have red flame decorations (naturally) while the DRK ones have black eagle centres, so its either the DRK medal or a foreign or Imperial award.

Sorry, i'm learning this as i go along, my ignorance on SA ranks and organisation is total so learning this stuff has pleasantly filled in an evening off but if anybody has any corrections or suggestions please stop me now.
and the found out i'd been agreed with, which might be a triumph for ignorant guesswork :lol:

[gaijinsamurai]

I bet he's happier when he's with the woman with the pink hat.

[Birsanc]

No, the man pictured is a Political official(Golden Pheasant), not an Army Officer.

10-4
I was strictly going by facial cues as I have no idea about German insignia/rank/etc...

[Connaught Ranger]

I believe the neck order to be a German Red Cross award.

On the medal bar he has a Prussian WW1 Iron Cross II Class (1914).

the second award could be a Bavarian M.V.O. Cross Model 1866-1920.

followed by a Bavarian Militarverdienstkreuz of the B M.V.O. with crown and swords (either 1st or 11 class.)

The fourth award is more than likely the Hindenberg Cross of Honour with swords for Combatant.

the last two / three at a guess the Austrian / Hungarian, Bulgarian Commemorative medals for WW1.

Anyway to get a higher resolution picture?

Connaught Ranger.

[nemowork]

If it is Berger his pre-1935 awards were


26.11.14 EK II
Sturmmedaille Ypern
21.05.15 Goldene württembergische Militär-Verdienstmedaille
01.06.16 Verwundetenabzeichen schwarz
21.08.18 EK I
04.05.18 Ritterkreuz des Militärs-Verdienstordens
18.06.18 Verwundetenabzeichen mattweiss
08.11.18 Friedrich-Orden mit Schwertern
16.11.35 Ehrenzkreiz für Frontkämpfer http://content.imagesocket.com/images/ritter481.jpg (http://imagesocket.com/view/ritter481.jpg)

My german is dreadful but that matches a 1914 Iron cross and the Hindenberg honour cross, he was born in Wurtemberg and the Knights grade of the military order of merit (google translator :oops:) is a white maltese cross with a decorated circular boss?

Or the Wurtemberg Friedrich order of merit is a pale maltese cross with swords?

http://content.imagesocket.com/images/wurttemberg_focf8.jpg (http://imagesocket.com/view/wurttemberg_focf8.jpg)

[mas-36]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/mpnet/28167716ae86f0c560.jpg
Same posture & grin


That may be the same guy, whatever his name is......however, anyone else notice the man in the upper left? Wearing the Luftwaffe hat and sporting a little mustache. I believe Adolph Galland is in the image too!!

[Connaught Ranger]

That may be the same guy, whatever his name is......however, anyone else notice the man in the upper left? Wearing the Luftwaffe hat and sporting a little mustache. I believe Adolph Galland is in the image too!!

Yes, that is Adolf Galland.

[Connaught Ranger]

From the shape of the right collar insignia its either an eagle or the three oak loaves, the extension below it could be the branch so that would make him a Gruppenfuhrer?

That might make him Gottlob Berger, i dont know what rank he was in about 34 but the nose and face look right?


(http://www.imagesocket.com/view/gottlob_berger738.JPG)http://content.imagesocket.com/images/gottlob_berger738.JPG (http://imagesocket.com/view/gottlob_berger738.JPG)

http://content.imagesocket.com/images/Gottlob_Berger485.jpg (http://imagesocket.com/view/Gottlob_Berger485.jpg)

The neck order is a higher award than the Ist Class breast cross worn in the second later period picture.

26.11.14 EK II

Sturmmedaille Ypern
was an unofficial German Veterans Asssociation self bought award, and such awards became illegal
for wear by serving members of the Nazi party and military after the 1934 institution of the Hindenberg Cross.

21.05.15 Goldene württembergische Militär-Verdienstmedaille

01.06.16 Verwundetenabzeichen schwarz

21.08.18 EK I

04.05.18 Ritterkreuz des Militärs-Verdienstordens

18.06.18 Verwundetenabzeichen mattweiss
(after this award of a "silver" II Class wound badge the Black III Class wound badge could not be worn.)

08.11.18 Friedrich-Orden mit Schwertern

16.11.35 Ehrenzkreiz für Frontkämpfer (Hindenberg Cross with swords for Combatant)

Connaught Ranger.

[Jµµso]

1:57 you can see that dude walking
http://www.youtube.com/v/Ml629z7tpDY

[largewar]

It’s not Bormann, Berger or Ley (and his strange and stupid wife Inga). He seems to be an SA-GF. I don’t have a better pic. Thanks for all your info about his awards!

[Sada]

This man is pictured too in the welcome ceremoy of Condor Legion in Germany, in this thread:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?179587-Spanish-Nationalist-victory-parade-May-1939-Life-Magazine

[Flounder]

I'd almost say it was my great-uncle Klaus, but we all know he was never a Nazi and instead spent the war years safely in Argentina working in the import-export trade.

[Mastermind]

Jeeze...I think that is my Step Father and his idiot sister.....GaaKKK!

[nemowork]

The neck order is a higher award than the Ist Class breast cross worn in the second later period picture.



So does that mean i'm wrong and the medals and its not likely to be him?


Out of curiosity if anyone knows, Berger is known for his work in expanding the SS from foreign recruiting and his seniority in the concentration camp system, but mostly for his promotion and protection of his friend thenotorious Oskar Dirlewanger, not an obvious candidate to be picking up Red cross and social welfare awards though his military ones seem to be fairly earned.

Anybody know how he managed to get them, if they were a political thing or he actually earned them? Id guess the party was trying to move in on the german red cross since they tried to take over everything from the post office to the boy scouts so is it related?