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sgt_G
05-23-2010, 11:40 AM
just a few paragraphs about two specific weapons used by the OSS and the SOE in WWII

the Welrod pistol:

It was used primarily by the British SOE but was also used by the American OSS. The Welrod, also known as the "Assassin's Pistol", was extremely quiet for a gun, producing a sound of around 73dB when fired. Examples were made in 9 mm Para and .32 ACP, with magazine of five and six rounds respectively. The Welrod took the form of a 1.25 inch diameter cylinder about 12 inches long. The rear of the cylinder contained the bolt, the middle the ported barrel and expansion chamber of the suppressor, and the front the baffles and wipes of the suppressor. There was a knurled knob at the rear that served as the bolt handle, and the magazine was also the grip. Removing the magazine/grip made the weapon easier to conceal.

The Welrod was provided with sights marked with fluorescent paint for use in low light conditions. Although it had a maximum range of 23 meters, it was intended for use far closer—up to point blank. The muzzle end of the gun was cut away so that it could be fired in direct contact with the target. This would reduce the sound levels even further, and removed the chance of missing.

The ported barrel of the Welrod served two purposes; it released the powder gases gradually into the rear of the suppressor, reducing the sound of firing, and it reduced the velocity of the bullet to subsonic speeds (especially important in the 9mm version since the standard 9mm loading is supersonic). The baffles and wipes that follow the barrel serve to further slow the gases of firing, releasing them over a long period of time and avoiding the sharp explosion that occurs when high pressure powder gases are suddenly released to the atmosphere.

The Welrod used a bolt-action design because it was simple, reliable, and quiet. The bolt-action has only the noise of the firing pin hitting the primer, and the bolt can be cycled quietly.

The Welrod was a "sanitized" weapon, meaning that it had no markings indicating its manufacturer or country of origin; all it was marked with was a serial number and some inscrutable symbols and letters. The Birmingham Small Arms Company confirmed that they manufactured some Welrod pistols, but that they put no markings at all on them, so any markings were likely added by the British military after delivery.

The Welrod was widely used in Denmark during World War II, and is reported to have been used during the Falklands War of 1982.

The name Welrod comes from the custom that all the clandestine equipment devised at Station IX in Welwyn had names starting with Wel, e.g, Welbike, Welman. A document was produced towards the end of World War II to ensure that the right persons were properly credited for their inventions at Station IX. This document reveals that the inventor of the Welrod was Major Hugh Reeves who was also responsible for the Sleevegun and several other important inventions.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9852/welrod1202acd.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/i/welrod1202acd.jpg/)


The FP-45 Liberator

The pistol had its origins in the US Army Joint Psychological Committee and was designed for the United States Army in 1942 by the Inland Guide Lamp Manufacturing Division of the General Motors Corporation in Dayton, Ohio.The army designated the weapon the Flare Projector Caliber .45 hence the designation FP-45. This was done to disguise the fact that a pistol was being mass produced. The original engineering drawings label the barrel as "tube", the trigger as "yoke", the firing pin as "control rod", and the trigger guard as "spanner". The Guide Lamp Division plant in Anderson, Indiana assembled a millionof these weapons. The Liberator project took about 6 months from conception to end of production with about 11 weeks of actual manufacturing time, done by 300 workers.

The FP-45 was a crude, single-shot pistol designed to be cheaply and quickly mass produced. The Liberator had just 23 largely stamped and turned steel parts that were cheap and easy to manufacture. It fired a .45 caliber pistol cartridge from an unrifled barrel. Due to the unrifled barrel, maximum effective range was only about 25 feet (less than 8 m). At longer range, the bullet would begin to tumble and stray off course. Because of the low quality, it was nicknamed the "Woolworth gun."

The Liberator was shipped in a cardboard box with 10 rounds of .45 ACP ammunition, a wooden dowel to remove the empty cartridge case, and an instruction sheet in comic strip form showing how to load and fire the weapon. Extra rounds of ammunition could be stored in the pistol grip.

After production, the Army turned the Liberators over to the OSS. A crude and clumsy weapon, the Liberator was never intended for front line service. It was originally intended as an insurgency weapon to be mass dropped behind enemy lines to resistance fighters in occupied territory. A resistance fighter was to recover the weapon, sneak up on an Axis occupier, kill or incapacitate him, and retrieve his weapons.
The weapon was valued as much for its psychological warfare effect as its actual field performance. It was believed that if vast quantities of these weapons could be delivered into Axis occupied territory, it would have a devastating effect on the morale of occupying troops. The plan was to drop the weapon in such great quantities that occupying forces could never capture or recover all the weapons. It was hoped that the thought of thousands of these unrecovered weapons potentially in the hands of the citizens of occupied countries would have a deleterious effect on enemy morale.

In reality, the OSS never saw the practicality in mass dropping the Liberator over occupied Europe, and only a handful were ever distributed. Only the Chinese and resistance forces in the Philippines received the Liberator in any significant quantity. The Liberator was never issued to American or Allied troops and there is no documented instance of the weapon being used for their intended purpose.

The original delivered cost for the FP-45 was $2.40/unit ($26 in 2005). A Liberator in good condition today can fetch approximately $1200, with the original box bringing an additional $500, with an original extremely rare paper instruction sheet the value could exceed $2000 to a collector of rare World War II militaria. Fakes of these sheets exist, but authentic copies have a watermark that can be seen clearly, which is difficult to duplicate.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/835/m1942liberator2ab682.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/m1942liberator2ab682.jpg/)

James
05-23-2010, 03:02 PM
There was another in service with the OSS - a .38 glove gun. To use it you made a fist and punched the target.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3153/glovegun708346.th.jpg

sgt_G
05-23-2010, 03:29 PM
i saw a snippet about it but that was all

course the glove gun was used in inglorious bastards

Vince S
05-23-2010, 04:13 PM
The Welrod was also used by SOG teams in Vietnam

Arnie100
05-23-2010, 10:40 PM
What about the De Lisle carbine? Does this count?

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9670/delislerifle.th.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/delislerifle.jpg/)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lisle_carbine

sgt_G
05-23-2010, 10:49 PM
What about the De Lisle carbine? Does this count?

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9670/delislerifle.th.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/delislerifle.jpg/)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lisle_carbine


it most certainly does!

NeoConPatriot
05-23-2010, 10:59 PM
My Grandma was a line manager at the Guide Lamp factory in Anderson, In. during WWII. When i was a kid she told me her line made the Liberator and the other lines made stamped "grease guns" and various artillery shells. After the Liberator project she went back to making fuses for the shells. She once told me that the workers could buy a liberator for 10$ but nobody did because there was no practical use for one and the workers considered it a piece of junk. I wish she would have bought about a 100$ worth of them.:-)

hank2222
05-24-2010, 05:16 AM
What about the De Lisle carbine? Does this count?

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9670/delislerifle.th.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/delislerifle.jpg/)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lisle_carbine

the British gentlemen used in the Burma area with a scope unit attched for takeing out the Japanese troops as they where rideing through the Burma road areas.. they would take the rifle along with them in a case and use to snipe at the troops as they rolled passed the ambush spot..there is a book that deals with the special weapons of ww2 era talks about it .. i will have to find the book for it a great book on the use and ideas of all the socall weapons of the Soe and Oss units ..

hank2222
05-24-2010, 05:36 AM
the germans had there own version of a compact suppressored system

James
05-24-2010, 06:53 AM
it most certainly does!

Well, it's your thread, but the De Lisle can fire more than one shot before you need to reload.

sgt_G
05-24-2010, 07:48 AM
yeah it does kinda throw the title off...maybe it can be changed to "nifty weapons of the blah blah...."

nemowork
05-24-2010, 04:23 PM
the germans had there own version of a compact suppressored system

Interesting, never heard of it. Wonder why the Gestapo thought they needed that sort of specialised sniper weapon in 1939?

James
05-24-2010, 04:57 PM
yeah it does kinda throw the title off...maybe it can be changed to "nifty weapons of the blah blah...."

I changed the title.

Here are some more:

Suppressed M3 and (I think) Hi Standard .22
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/629/mk3.th.jpg (http://img571.imageshack.us/i/mk3.jpg/)

United Defense M42, a 9mm SMG used extensively by the OSS, especially in Yugoslavia
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7159/uniteddefensem42.th.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/uniteddefensem42.jpg/)

Suppressed Sten Gun
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8303/silencedstennewspec.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/i/silencedstennewspec.jpg/)

silentpartner
05-24-2010, 05:14 PM
Two interesting websites on nifty kit:

1) http://www.millsgrenades.co.uk/ ------> http://www.millsgrenades.co.uk/Soe%202.htm
2) http://www.timelapse.dk/index.php ------> http://www.timelapse.dk/welrod.php

hank2222
05-24-2010, 05:18 PM
Interesting, never heard of it. Wonder why the Gestapo thought they needed that sort of specialised sniper weapon in 1939?

in one of my books on the German ww2 weapons there was talk about a luger beening set up with a small fixed power scope with a supprosser and metal shoulder stock for use as a sniper weapon for some of the special units the Germans had ..i have to find the picture in the book and scan it in ..

nemowork
05-24-2010, 05:30 PM
The point was more why this Graf Von Heldorf who instigated the SDK thought he needed one, the Gestapo was more into shuffling paper than James Bond stuff. if they wanted someone out of the way they were more likely to be given an invitation to a dark cellar by a couple of big guys in trench coats, special units were an Abwehr thing.

Hauser
05-24-2010, 05:36 PM
Some more guns

http://i48.tinypic.com/1411j01.jpg
Winchester .22 cal. Model 74 rifle w/silencer

http://i48.tinypic.com/53mtl0.jpg
BIGOT-modified .45 cal. automatic pistol

http://i45.tinypic.com/svm5hf.jpg
Little Joe

http://i46.tinypic.com/102uhz7.jpg
William Tell

http://i45.tinypic.com/21mvx50.jpg
Dart Pen-spring loaded

http://i46.tinypic.com/2z88cw9.jpg
Air-Pen-compressed air, also shoots darts

http://i48.tinypic.com/6h566a.jpg
Sleeve pistol,also silenced

http://i45.tinypic.com/wkgsd4.jpg
The Welgun was designed by the SOE workshop in Welwyn Garden City, from which the weapon recieved its name. The submachine gun was first developed for use by SOE undercover agents but then made for use by airborne troops. The Welgun featured an unusual bolt, attached to the recoil spring around the barrel, which, with a stock that folded across the top of the reciever, allowed the submachine gun to be extremely compact. The weapon performed successfully in trials in early 1943, but was never put into production.

I can't think of a name
05-24-2010, 06:22 PM
I changed the title.

Here are some more:

Suppressed M3 and (I think) Hi Standard .22
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/629/mk3.th.jpg (http://img571.imageshack.us/i/mk3.jpg/)


http://www.skydivewithjohn.com/documents/HistoryofHALOOperations.pdf

Page 9 of this PDF on MACVSOG HALO Operations in Cambodia

The Hi-Standard .22 is the pistol the SOG guys used to shoot animals of NVA and remain undetected. One guy unloaded one on what he thought was a Tiger.

sgt_G
05-24-2010, 09:28 PM
I changed the title.

thanx......

Arnie100
05-25-2010, 12:42 AM
I found a better pic of the suppressed M3:

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/188/m3oss.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/i/m3oss.jpg/)

hank2222
05-25-2010, 12:43 AM
here is the picture i am taking about with the luger and the scope mounted on it ..all the militarys that fought in ww2 era had a few stange weapons ideas goeing for them dureing the war years..

I can't think of a name
05-25-2010, 03:17 AM
What is with the almost identical leather wrap on the Silenced Sten and M3? I guess the silencers are so heavy you need to hold the weapon up there and they get hot?

hank2222
05-25-2010, 03:52 AM
it was for controling the weapon when useing it in a close range fashion

James
05-25-2010, 05:24 AM
What is with the almost identical leather wrap on the Silenced Sten and M3? I guess the silencers are so heavy you need to hold the weapon up there and they get hot?

I believe that it was to help mitigate heat.

JJHH
05-25-2010, 02:41 PM
This is what my acquaintance Clive Bassett has gathered. Photos by Clive. Enjoy.. ;)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5627/jedburghdisplay1.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/i/jedburghdisplay1.jpg/)

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7587/jedburghdisplay2.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/i/jedburghdisplay2.jpg/)

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9950/jedburghdisplay3.jpg (http://img175.imageshack.us/i/jedburghdisplay3.jpg/)

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8765/jedburghdisplay4.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/jedburghdisplay4.jpg/)

Straker
05-29-2010, 02:10 PM
Well, it's your thread, but the De Lisle can fire more than one shot before you need to reload.

Does it not use a Lee Enfield bolt action combined with the magazine housing and magazines of a Colt 1911?

The modern reproductions (with longer barrels and moderators due to being on a FAC) are scarily quiet. You hear the user pulling the trigger and thats about it. Much quieter than a silenced .22 firing subsonics.

Hauser
05-29-2010, 04:09 PM
Does it not use a Lee Enfield bolt action combined with the magazine housing and magazines of a Colt 1911?

The modern reproductions (with longer barrels and moderators due to being on a FAC) are scarily quiet. You hear the user pulling the trigger and thats about it. Much quieter than a silenced .22 firing subsonics.

I once met someone who owned a reproduction one, and he said that the sound of cycling the action was much louder than the actual shot.

Ravage
05-30-2010, 04:54 AM
Justr wanted to say great thread, keep up fellas!