Israeli CQB vest

[johnny6]

Hello everyone.
I've read the most interesting thread regarding the IDF's line of webbing/chest rigs/vest, however you want to call it, and I'd thought I'd share with you the vest we use in my unit, which is a counter terror unit (hope I'm using the right term here) and is designed for urban fighting/CQB.
Well, in general we use two preferable type of vests - the two pieces ceramic flack jacket with the pouches sewed on, and the cordura soft vest that is worn over a separate ceramic flack jacket. I prefer the second type and that's the one in the pictures here.
The ceramic flack jacket itself is a shelf product made by KATA (I'm not here to advertise so I wont add links but I'm sure you won't have any problems finding info about it). Similar ceramic flack jackets are also made by Mar'om Dolphin and are also being used in the unit, but they are not as flat as Kata's ones.

1. the ceramic flack jacket:
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/IMG_2911.jpg

nothing much to say about it other than the fact that the ceramic plates themselves are much smaller than the full body armor issued by the army, and much lighter.

2. The plates and the Kevlar lining are totally removable. most of the guys, including myself, take out the back plate.
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/IMG_2910.jpg


3. The vest (known as 'warrior's vest') itself in full frontal view. (I put the combat knife in to show where it fits but I personally leave it behind and use an XL utility knife. (and so do almost all of the other guys)
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2912.jpg

The vest is designed on two major principles: (1) the right chest area, where the gun's butt-stock goes, must be as flat and clear of any pouches, buckles and what not. nothing comes in the way of the gun when you point and shoot. (2) The vest must be as low-key profile as possible. that's a major element when most of your action takes place in narrow alleyways, corridors, corners windows and thresholds. The numbers in the picture above indicates 1) the ceramic vest underneath, 2) the upper locking buckle (with the personal radio's PTT button attached to it, although sometimes I'll attach it to my left palm).

4. Left side view. the captions I added indicates pouches which are specific for one kind of equipment.
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2913.jpg

5. Right side view.
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2915.jpg

6. Back view, showing the ports in the integral upper back pouch, the nape pouch (good for small items like cellphone :) )
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2916.jpg

7. Another back view
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2917.jpg

8. Last back view, showing 5 out of 6 adjustment points of the vest.
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2918.jpg

9. Front view again, showing the locking point of the vest.
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2921.jpg

10. The vest has its own 3 padding cushions, but they are usually removed when wearing a ceramic vest underneath.
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2922.jpg

11. Aside from 6 M4 magazines, the vest has 4 9mm Glock/Sig Sauer magazine pouches, on on each side of the M4 mag pouches.
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2923.jpg

12. The Med-Kit pouch and communication package.
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2924.jpg

13. The vest also has a detachable backpack for carrying bigger equipment like tactical radio (for the team's radio guy), breaching equipment, extra water and ammo for longer operations, etc etc..
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2925.jpg

14. The detachable backpack locks into the vest in five points, and is very efficient in operation where the team is taking over a house and operates in short in-and-out mini operations from it. in that case you'd just leave the backpack behind and re-attach it only on extraction.
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2926.jpg

That's it. I hope it can give you guys some ideas for your on use, and I'd love to here your takes on it from your different views. I also apologize for any spelling or grammar mistakes, English abviously isn't my first, or second, language.

[Volksgrenadier]

Wow.... really cool, I love how IDF vest look

[Tikvah]

Madrich Lotar? What Machzor?

[Andreas]

Best first post I have seen in a loooong time.
Thanks for posting, very informative, and welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Andreas

[Jippo]

Thank you for this thread, very interesting to read.

[johnny6]

Madrich Lotar? What Machzor?

hell no.
oh you mean because of the thing there on the helmet? I'm not a LOTAR instructor, but my original helmet cover got ripped and I just grabbed another one from the MADOR and it had this symbol on the visor (or however you call this eyes protection thingy) strap tunnels.

Now that you mention it, I really should get rid of that.. I tried to paint it black with a marking pen but it keeps coming off with time.

[IDF_TANKER]

^^ Duvdevan or Magav?

[Sato]

Excellent post!

That vest looks very practical!

[johnny6]

Oh I forgot, and this is what it looks like on the body (yeah, I actually posed and took these shots just for this thread, wanted to make a good impression on my first post p-)
The guy who took the pictures obviously knows nothing about photography, and neither do I, and all he had is a poor ass camera, so I apologize for the quality of the photo and the poor lighting and that..
P.S. I'm wearing the head gear just for privacy reasons, please don't think I'm an asshole :)

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/Image1.jpg
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/Image7.jpg
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/Image6.jpg
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/Image18.jpg
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/Image62.jpg

I suppose some of you guys would think it sits extremely high in the body, and it does, but that's again because the idea behind the design is to make it sit as tight as possible on the body. I swear, I can sprint, jump, roll and do back flips (if I knew how) with this thing and it won't move an inch, nor will it bounce or pound against my body (you know how when you run with Efod (the boot camp issued rig) it jumps up and down and rocks against your body? well, the idea was to eliminate that).

Another big advantage with having the gear sitting high is that it doesn't limit your legs when you're raising them. try kicking a Beyitat Hadifa ("forward kick"? "push kick"? whatever it's called) wearing infantry vest, and you'll kick your magazine pouches into your chin.

Flaws: (nothing's perfect right?)
* The weak side of this vest is that it is very uncomfortable to carry any bag with it, because the bag's straps got no where to sit properly.
* Another weak point I can think of is that with 6 different adjustment straps, it usually takes you like an hour of trial and error until you reach perfect fitting to your body (it also comes in 3 sizes).
*I don't usually carry my pistol in the vest, and like most people in my team I prefer a thigh holster. If it was up to me I'd remove the pistol holster and put either another magazine pouch or something.
*It is not comfortable to sleep in. Sometimes, between last orders-group and H-hour you get to wait hours in the vehicles or in some hide point, and you just can't lie down and doze off comfortably in this thing. :-|

[johnny6]

Best first post I have seen in a loooong time.
Thanks for posting, very informative, and welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Andreas

Hej, hur mår du?
är du norsk?
Jag har ett svenska (eller "svenskt"?) flickvän, förstår du svenska?

[Catch22]

Possibly you might not be aware that KATA company is no longer in the market for ballistic products.

The vest shows the diffrent approach to the topic than most of the western equipment nowadays - its a still a separate tactical vest not an integrated equipment. When the releasable modular integrated vests are setting the standard with lighter Plate Carriers (some of them releasable) now being the hot stuff you guys still use quite old school setup. I have no doubts that it does the job for you, but have you seen or know anyone in your forces who sported lets say a Paraclete SOHPC?

[johnny6]

Possibly you might not be aware that KATA company is no longer in the market for ballistic products.
I did not know that. oh well..


The vest shows the diffrent approach to the topic than most of the western equipment nowadays - its a still a separate tactical vest not an integrated equipment. When the releasable modular integrated vests are setting the standard with lighter Plate Carriers (some of them releasable) now being the hot stuff you guys still use quite old school setup. I have no doubts that it does the job for you, but have you seen or know anyone in your forces who sported lets say a Paraclete SOHPC?

If "Paraclete SOHPC" is what google tells me it is, than it's pretty similar to the second type of vests we use, I mentioned it in the first post. Those vests have the armor plates in them. They are built of two separate parts (back piece and front piece) connected with three velkro layers at the shoulders and the buckles are on the sides, under the ribs.
I don't like these vests for two reasons:
1. The ceramic plates sits too hight for my taste (we 'shoulder' our guns from the chest, not the shoulder, and I don't like the plate to be in the way of the butt-stock, it sits deeper and studier on soft material).
2. They will never fit as tight and accurately as the soft vests, just because they are much more "bulky" and wide. With the plates sitting inside, there's only so much you can make it wrap your body, you know what I mean?
In the Kata's ceramic vest you don't have this problem. I got a SOHPC style vest at home, I'll try and take some pictures of it and I'll show you what I mean.

Anyway, it's a matter of personal choice and preference, no right or wrong here. This method of tactical-over-ceramic works best for me, especially when it comes to how the weight spreads and the fitting, and the comfortability of getting into firing position and shooting.

Oh, and about the quick release thing - honestly, I personally think this is bull****. I've been in medical emergencies in the field - in a real torso gun wound scenario, the medic won't start tilting and flipping the wounded trying to find and pull all kinds of quick release strings, handles and buckles. He will either open the vest or take out his medical scissors and cut open the straps or kurdora or whatever else is in his way to the wound, just like he will do anyway with the shirt.. it takes maybe three seconds more, but can be done in whatever angle and whatever position the wounded is in.

[little icebear]

The plates and the Kevlar lining are totally removable. most of the guys, including myself, take out the back plate.

BTDT or not - I regard that to be a very bad habit. And I recall that the US Army once looked into that practice as well. There was a study about bullets entering into the unprotected rear and being deflected back into the torso because of the front plate, causing massive trauma beyond what would have happened without any bodyarmor.

I´d rather go with soft-armor only, instead of having only one plate. The idea of a bullet bouncing around in my body sounds way to scary...

[Tikvah]

hell no.
oh you mean because of the thing there on the helmet? I'm not a LOTAR instructor, but my original helmet cover got ripped and I just grabbed another one from the MADOR and it had this symbol on the visor (or however you call this eyes protection thingy) strap tunnels.

Now that you mention it, I really should get rid of that.. I tried to paint it black with a marking pen but it keeps coming off with time.

You a chayal boded by any chance?

[Straker]

Do you find not wearing the rear hard armour plate makes the rig very front heavy along with all your equipment?

Genuinely curious here not trying to be judgemental.

[johnny6]

Do you find not wearing the rear hard armour plate makes the rig very front heavy along with all your equipment?

Genuinely curious here not trying to be judgemental.

Surprisingly enough -no.
Had it been an integrated vest (with the plate slided into to lining behind the pouches), the front half would pull the lighter back half, and the vest would have felt very unbalanced, but because the plate sits in it's own tink-top like vest, firmly attached to my body, I hardly feel it, and it doesn't effect the vest itself.

[johnny6]

You a chayal boded by any chance?

haha no mate, that's not me. I'm WAY more handsome than him! ;)

[johnny6]

BTDT or not - I regard that to be a very bad habit. And I recall that the US Army once looked into that practice as well. There was a study about bullets entering into the unprotected rear and being deflected back into the torso because of the front plate, causing massive trauma beyond what would have happened without any bodyarmor.

I´d rather go with soft-armor only, instead of having only one plate. The idea of a bullet bouncing around in my body sounds way to scary...
what's "BTDT"?
I've heard the same story, but in a two plates version, where the AP bullet pierces through the first plate, hitting the back and then bounces off it back to the front and so on. In this scenario, you're better off without the back plate, so the bullet could get smoothly out of your body.
Honestly? both bollocks IMHO. you never know what's gonna happen and you can be 100% safe (and still combat-effective). I knowingly choose to be a faster and slimmer target than a more heavily armored one. You may think it's stupid, you may even be right, but that's what I see fit.
And beside - I've taken my bullet already in Nablus. (stopped by the front plate, and other than a shrapnel that went through my wrist and a minor crack on the Sternum, I came out without a scratch) so I figure I'm pretty much in the clear, now it someone else's turn, right?

[Tikvah]

haha no mate, that's not me. I'm WAY more handsome than him! ;)

Lol If you are a katzin as it seems in the pics, then you might know my friend... Although maybe you are too tzair anyways lol.

[johnny6]

Lol If you are a katzin as it seems in the pics, then you might know my friend... Although maybe you are too tzair anyways lol.

I know exactly who you're thinking about, that's how I know I'm way more handsome ;)
But why did you think I was a lone soldier anyway?

[Tikvah]

I know exactly who you're thinking about, that's how I know I'm way more handsome ;)
But why did you think I was a lone soldier anyway?

Hahaha, he's a great guy eh? שפיץ רצח. If you served with him I may have done some peilut alongside you. Small world eh? Anyways, תמשיך לשמור על עצמך, אה? מספיק כדור אחד נראה לי :P

[Tikvah]

Oh and I thought you might be a chayal boded because of the languages. That or some shagrir's kid. What are they called again? Yalid shagririm or something, can't remember. Anyways, your english is amazing and you also speak Norwegian or something from around there. But guess not, oh well, not everyone is perfect ;) .
Anyways, if no one has told you yet, you should check out the IDF Ground Forces thread in the photo forum, that's where all us Israelis lurk about.

[johnny6]

Oh and I thought you might be a chayal boded because of the languages. That or some shagrir's kid. What are they called again? Yalid shagririm or something, can't remember. Anyways, your english is amazing and you also speak Norwegian or something from around there. But guess not, oh well, not everyone is perfect ;) .
Anyways, if no one has told you yet, you should check out the IDF Ground Forces thread in the photo forum, that's where all us Israelis lurk about.

Well thank you very much, I don't think my English is actually all that good, and I'm having quite a struggle on every post (have? has? had? hand? what goes where?). I've never even been to the States. And as I told Andreas I only speak a bit of Swedish because I had a Swedish girlfriend.. Son of an ambassador? haha, I'm a son of a farmer, the ambassador of fields-mud at most.. ;-)

Are you guys (the few Israelis that post in the forum) all ex-Americans and OLIM? because the English level is pretty high up..

I know about the IDF pictures thread I just didn't want to bounce a dead thread back up to life, I know people in forums hate when it happens..
Plus, I don't really have too many picture I can share, nothing too interesting

[GiladS]

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2924.jpg (http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2924.jpg)

First time that I see an AW in a vest that doesn't belong to a medic/paramedic/doctor in the IDF.

Not that using an AW is more complicated than using a tourniquet, it's just not common to see it on someone who wasn't trained in more than providing basic first aid, or am I wrong?

P.S
Welcome to the board, and as has already been mentioned, an excellent first post.

[Kaplanr]

Kibbutznik or moshavnik? I think there's a pretty good balance of tzbarim, olim from CSI and Anglo-Saxon as well as a handful of ex-olim (I'm one of thise.) Ages are still in sadir to 50+ (I learned .03 along side the MAG.)

[johnny6]

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2924.jpg (http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2924.jpg)

First time that I see an AW in a vest that doesn't belong to a medic/paramedic/doctor in the IDF.

Not that using an AW is more complicated than using a tourniquet, it's just not common to see it on someone who wasn't trained in more than providing basic first aid, or am I wrong?


No I think we all carry it in the personal med-kit.. as you said using an AW is not more complicated than applying a bandage or a tourniquet, and we carry it for the same reason we carry the later two - a wounded man would die from suffocation a lot faster than from loss of blood (in general, let's not go into "what if you get cut in half" scenarios ;) ).

So our med kit consists of a tourniquet, AW, and personal bandage. Some people go further with it and add additional stuff like disinfection powder bag (solfa) and stuff, but these three are the must-have basics.
Of course we all carry the med kit in the same pouch, located at the same spot on everyone's vest, for obvious reasons.

[little icebear]

what's "BTDT"?


Been there, done that = Soldier with combat experience. I put it in there because you´re the active soldier and at the end of the day it is your own decision and I wanted to make clear, that I´m not trying to tell you what to do, while I´m sitting here in the safety of my home.
However, to me, the concerns about going with one plate only seem to be well funded and therefor I felt the urge to point it out.

What ever you do - just take care nobody shoots you in the back. ;)

[Tikvah]

Well thank you very much, I don't think my English is actually all that good, and I'm having quite a struggle on every post (have? has? had? hand? what goes where?). I've never even been to the States. And as I told Andreas I only speak a bit of Swedish because I had a Swedish girlfriend.. Son of an ambassador? haha, I'm a son of a farmer, the ambassador of fields-mud at most.. ;-)

Are you guys (the few Israelis that post in the forum) all ex-Americans and OLIM? because the English level is pretty high up..

I know about the IDF pictures thread I just didn't want to bounce a dead thread back up to life, I know people in forums hate when it happens..
Plus, I don't really have too many picture I can share, nothing too interesting

Bring a dead thread back to life? No way! Our thread is alive and well thank you very much. Hahahaha!
Lots of olim (Canada, USA, Argentina and some other places...) and tzabarim as well. A Swedish girlfriend? In Israel? Sachten aleicha ahahahaha.

[johnny6]

1. http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2951.jpg
Was taken off a terrorist in Nablus who won't be needing it anymore.
It's pretty thick and sturdy, looks and feel tougher than ours actually. You can see it's pretty basic, not much more than mag pouches and two shoulder stripes that I don't know what they're for (one of them is a piece of a belt sewed to the vest, maybe for a knife)

2. http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2953.jpg
I like the massive zipper, wouldn't mind having something like that on our gear, if it had some tightening mechanism like the buckles have. I don't know what are these two shoulder thingies are for, although the right shoulder's one would hold a knife.

3. http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2955.jpg
The making is crap, obviously, but you can see where they took some of the ideas from..

4. http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2958.jpg
And of course, it would be any good without that, right? :-P

5.http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2957.jpg
Indeed a true must on every vest; catchy, and maybe even protective (although not in his case, but still..)
Just to show us that all soldiers, wherever, like to jot **** on their gear when they're bored


But some of them got their hands on proper, modern style vests too.

[johnny6]

What ever you do - just take care nobody shoots you in the back. ;)

I can totally see it; if I got shot in the back, I can see my officer comes running, pushing away the medics and doctor, flipping me back on my back saying "and just the F*CK were you doing with your BACK to the fire?!? ah, just leave him, he'll walk it off.."

:)

[GB_FXST]

^^^^

Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

[GiladS]

No I think we all carry it in the personal med-kit.. as you said using an AW is not more complicated than applying a bandage or a tourniquet, and we carry it for the same reason we carry the later two - a wounded man would die from suffocation a lot faster than from loss of blood (in general, let's not go into "what if you get cut in half" scenarios ;) ).

So our med kit consists of a tourniquet, AW, and personal bandage. Some people go further with it and add additional stuff like disinfection powder bag (solfa) and stuff, but these three are the must-have basics.
Of course we all carry the med kit in the same pouch, located at the same spot on everyone's vest, for obvious reasons.

I completely agree, still having first aid providers carry an AW isn't common practice. It seems that your unit doctor is going beyond the regular doctrine (unless the doctrine has been changed since my discharge).

I myself think that its very logical that just as every soldier knows how to apply a bandage and tourniquet, he should also know how to use an AW and carry one with him.

[johnny6]

I myself think that its very logical that just as every soldier knows how to apply a bandage and tourniquet, he should also know how to use an AW and carry one with him.

umm.. I think every soldier does know how to use an AW.. I can't really recall but I think they taught us that back in boot camp.. and then a new race started - who can fit it in his own mouth for the longest time without gagging :)

[GiladS]

umm.. I think every soldier does know how to use an AW.. I can't really recall but I think they taught us that back in boot camp.. and then a new race started - who can fit it in his own mouth for the longest time without gagging :)

I remember that from the medics course, potential for a lot of jokes right there p-)

I didn't go through the first aid course during basic since it was after I completed my medics course but I don't recall any of my friends knowing when and how to apply an AW (unless they volunteered in MDA).

And of course no one in my unit who wasn't among the medical staff was issued one... but maybe things have changed since then.

[G3SG1]

Hello everyone.
I've read the most interesting thread regarding the IDF's line of webbing/chest rigs/vest, however you want to call it, and I'd thought I'd share with you the vest we use in my unit, which is a counter terror unit (hope I'm using the right term here) and is designed for urban fighting/CQB.
Well, in general we use two preferable type of vests - the two pieces ceramic flack jacket with the pouches sewed on, and the cordura soft vest that is worn over a separate ceramic flack jacket. I prefer the second type and that's the one in the pictures here.
The ceramic flack jacket itself is a shelf product made by KATA (I'm not here to advertise so I wont add links but I'm sure you won't have any problems finding info about it). Similar ceramic flack jackets are also made by Mar'om Dolphin and are also being used in the unit, but they are not as flat as Kata's ones.


That's it. I hope it can give you guys some ideas for your on use, and I'd love to here your takes on it from your different views. I also apologize for any spelling or grammar mistakes, English abviously isn't my first, or second, language.


Great post and pics johnny thank you. As for Kata i remember seen their products in one Defendory or Copex, can't remember exactly, years ago.

[bigisraeli]

I'd say stick with the Velcro, not the zipper (Form the Hamas vest) as they tend to fail when you need them the most.
As for the backpack, is there no way to skip the shoulder straps altogether? Maybe you can work with the amlachist (אמל"חיסט) of the unit (or whoever you get the vest from) to have integral straps to secure to the back and torso so it's nice and snuggle. I think Smammit, and more specifically, Adam Stevens (ז"ל) had some interesting designs specifically in the matter.

ברוך בואך לפורום, אני ישראלי יורד, אחרי שירות מלא (וקצת מילואים) גר בשיקאגו
שבת שלום

[johnny6]

As for the backpack, is there no way to skip the shoulder straps altogether? Maybe you can work with the amlachist (אמל"חיסט) of the unit (or whoever you get the vest from) to have integral straps to secure to the back and torso so it's nice and snuggle. I think Smammit, and more specifically, Adam Stevens (ז"ל) had some interesting designs specifically in the matter.

I don't know what you mean. Our vests and backpack have no straps at all. It does just what you said- snaps on the vest with velkro and buckles. Avoiding straps is the exact point of this design because straps will interrupt the shooting..

[bigisraeli]

Ok then, I missed that. To tell you the truth I more assumed that you may be using a shoulder strap b/c that's what I saw and see with many of the infantry units, using straps, laying on the vest around the shoulders (see attachment, although with Ephod, but the idea is the same), it looks uncomfortable and from my brief experience climbing to Zivanit post with my vest and backpack, it's extremely uncomfortable and make it hard to use the rifle.

Can you perhaps upload a picture with the vest and the backpack? I'm interested specifically with the attachment to the vest. To make is more clear, I'm referring to a 70 L bag, not the small attachments that you may carry normally for night vision, maps, etc.
Thanks

p.s., are you familiar with Fresh forum? (Hebrew forum)

[johnny6]

Ok then, I missed that. To tell you the truth I more assumed that you may be using a shoulder strap b/c that's what I saw and see with many of the infantry units, using straps, laying on the vest around the shoulders (see attachment, although with Ephod, but the idea is the same), it looks uncomfortable and from my brief experience climbing to Zivanit post with my vest and backpack, it's extremely uncomfortable and make it hard to use the rifle.

Can you perhaps upload a picture with the vest and the backpack? I'm interested specifically with the attachment to the vest. To make is more clear, I'm referring to a 70 L bag, not the small attachments that you may carry normally for night vision, maps, etc.
Thanks

p.s., are you familiar with Fresh forum? (Hebrew forum)

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2968.jpg
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2967.jpg
here are the 5 attachment points:
Head
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2967.jpg
Side, Upper (strong strong Velkro, going through a whateveryouwannacallit on the vest and straps back on to the pack)http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2965.jpg
Side, Bottom (large buckle, one part on vest, one on pack)
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2961.jpg


OK, first we're not really an infantry unit in the full sense of the word, so we don't really need those huge 120+ Liter backpack that units like Maglan and the Palsarim use. They're only meant to help us carry fighting equipment that is either ineffective sometime (such as night vision scopes and googles, some extra water/food and stuff like that, in case it won't fit in the vest's integral pack, that's all. Pakalistim (snipers, medics, breaching squad) got they're own different vests anyway, for carrying they're stuff.

Backpack straps will mess out your shooting no matter where you put them. even if you push them all the way to the sides, right on your shoulders line so they won't get in the butt-stock's way, they'll still won't allow you to close your shoulders deep on your gun (plus you're ruining your back).

[bigisraeli]

I agree with that, that's why I'm interested to know how you do it, which looks pretty good.

I think that part of the idea for other units who carry big bags is to drop them if needed and come back to them when everything is done (for example during attack הסתערות).

Does the ceramic vest you have under your regular vest limit you in any way in terms of holding the rife? From what I was told here by my friend, who happens to be in SWAT here, his ceramic vest make it very uncomfortable holding the weapon with the far grip and he uses the close grip (around the magazine) instead.

Thank you for all the answers ;)

[johnny6]

I think that part of the idea for other units who carry big bags is to drop them if needed and come back to them when everything is done (for example during attack הסתערות).

Does the ceramic vest you have under your regular vest limit you in any way in terms of holding the rife? From what I was told here by my friend, who happens to be in SWAT here, his ceramic vest make it very uncomfortable holding the weapon with the far grip and he uses the close grip (around the magazine) instead.

Thank you for all the answers ;)

The idea of dropping down your backpack might work if you're fighting in an open area, where u can get a 'heads up' before being in contact with the enemy. In Bethlehem's Kasba you're lucky if you even see the guy before you see his muzzle flash few meters away from you. Just won't work there.

The Ceramic vest, although looking a bit wide in the pictures here (because it's lying flat on the table) is really small. the plates are no bigger than 35X30 cm and they wont extend over your body size. the front plate reaches like a centimeter above your nipple line to protect the lunges and the heart but no higher than that so it won't interrupt your gun. (if you've ever heard the army term "kermon-shabak" - that's what it is).
I guess Chicago SWAT uses full budy armor plates, like the American army. We're using the same small plates that the YAMAM here is using, and they don't limit your movement in any way (at the cost of limited protection)

[bigisraeli]

Not Chicago's swat, and I think they do use full plates. Now that you mentioned the Keramon I know exactly what you're talking about.

Another discussion we had was regarding the location of the handgun, whether it's better in the vest or on thigh. Additionally, if in vest, does it make it hard to draw fast enough? He claims that he likes it high up on the chest rather then thigh (see pic., taken form fresh forum about a discussion on the matter, http://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=506834)

[tango44]

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2912.jpg



Is that a Glock 17 or Glock 19?
Howm many mags do you carry?


Thank you.

[johnny6]

Is that a Glock 17 or Glock 19?
Howm many mags do you carry?


Thank you.

19c, 4 mags (3 in vest, 1 in pistol).

[tango44]

19c, 4 mags (3 in vest, 1 in pistol).

Why did you chooce a Glock "C" model?
Or is what you got issued?

Thank you.

[TallGuy]

A bit off-topic but I just wondering if somebody could translate this label that's on the inside an Israeli vest I have?:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/403/hebrew.jpg

The vest:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2mw9k7c.jpg

[GiladS]

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/403/hebrew.jpg



"Cleaning instructions:
1) Hand wash in warm water with gentle laundry powder.
2) If needed a soft brush can be used to clean.
3) Hang in the shade to dry.

Storage instructions:
Every vest will be kept in a polyethylene bag and stored in a dry and shaded area."

[johnny6]

Why did you chooce a Glock "C" model?
Or is what you got issued?

Thank you.

That's what we're issued. Before that we had the Sig Sauer 226 and some 228. I liked the Sig but in my opinion, The Glock is better. At least for our purposes.

[johnny6]

The vest:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2mw9k7c.jpg


Yeah so this is pretty much the other type of vest we use, the integrated one, only that ours is a one piece front so the buckles are on both sides (around the ribs), and naturally has more 5.56 mags pouches and all the other crap that comes with it.
How do you like yours? Can I ask where did you get it (don't worry, I wouldn't care if you stole it from the army. Anyone who hasn't stole from the army is no soldier)? I'm asking because the cleaning instruction are clearly for quarter-mastership/logistics, not privet user.

[TallGuy]

"Cleaning instructions:
1) Hand wash in warm water with gentle laundry powder.
2) If needed a soft brush can be used to clean.
3) Hang in the shade to dry.

Storage instructions:
Every vest will be kept in a polyethylene bag and stored in a dry and shaded area."
Thanks for the translation.



Yeah so this is pretty much the other type of vest we use, the integrated one, only that ours is a one piece front so the buckles are on both sides (around the ribs), and naturally has more 5.56 mags pouches and all the other crap that comes with it.
How do you like yours? Can I ask where did you get it (don't worry, I wouldn't care if you stole it from the army. Anyone who hasn't stole from the army is no soldier)? I'm asking because the cleaning instruction are clearly for quarter-mastership/logistics, not privet user.
It's an OK vest. It's well made and durable and the fit is good.

I got the vest on ebay, from this seller: http://stores.ebay.com/Israeli-Weapons-Ltd

The vest I got was much cheaper than the ones he's selling now, I got mine for $85, shipped.

[gilgoul]

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2924.jpg (http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx32/ryefield/vest/IMG_2924.jpg)

First time that I see an AW in a vest that doesn't belong to a medic/paramedic/doctor in the IDF.

Not that using an AW is more complicated than using a tourniquet, it's just not common to see it on someone who wasn't trained in more than providing basic first aid, or am I wrong?

P.S
Welcome to the board, and as has already been mentioned, an excellent first post.

hey,
i have one in mine
and a CAT too

[Pakal A3]

I can totally see it; if I got shot in the back, I can see my officer comes running, pushing away the medics and doctor, flipping me back on my back saying "and just the F*CK were you doing with your BACK to the fire?!? ah, just leave him, he'll walk it off.."

:)

HAHAHAHA you forgot the katzin yelling "YA METUMTAM ACHAD" (what an moron)

[repacz]

What is AW please?

[rhino]

Amazing Weapon

[gaijinsamurai]

he should also know how to use an AW and carry one with him.

AW= Ass Wipe.
In the US Military, Ass Wipe is included in our MREs. They tend to cause constipation, so after the third day in the field, when you finally have to do a bowel movement, you've probably saved up enough AW to do the job.

[Kaplanr]

Air Way

12345679


What is AW please?

[gaijinsamurai]

Am Way

http://www.amway.com/EN?cm_mmc=Amway%20Global%20-_-Reputation_2010-_-SEM_Google_Brand_Amway_Top%20Spender%20Amway%20KW_Exact-_-keyword%20Amway&s_kwcid=TC|22217|amway||S|e|7173922698

[rhino]

thanks Kaplanr, way to go :/

[Kaplanr]

Cut the dude some slack. If I hadn't been an ambulance driver once upon a time I wouldn't have recognized what the thing was. At least he's not asking what the best CQB vest in the world is or something like that.

[gaijinsamurai]

I wouldn't mind having one of those. Just wish they were a little more affordable.

http://www.zahal.org/groups/combat-vests

[rhino]

you wanna bet he will try to find one to complete his airsoft rig

[Lasse]

I wouldn't mind having one of those. Just wish they were a little more affordable.

http://www.zahal.org/groups/combat-vestsThey aint to bad. It's a great vest, full of pouches. The same setup in molle would run the same or more.
And as info, these are built like tanks, if you have a pouch blowout then you've been nuked and you're dead anyway.
I did some mods for a guy on his Marom vest, and it kinda took just as long removing some pouches that I spent on sewing new ones...

[gaijinsamurai]

^
Yeah, quality vests/webbing tends to be expensive. I like the Tactical Tailor MAV, but can't/won't spend the money.
I've got one of the older Israeli web sets. I like it, except the mag pouches won't fit 7.62x39 AK mags, and there's no provision for a pistol or fixed blade knife. My .38 will fit in one of the mag pouches, though.

[repacz]

Cut the dude some slack. If I hadn't been an ambulance driver once upon a time I wouldn't have recognized what the thing was. At least he's not asking what the best CQB vest in the world is or something like that.
Thx a lot guys :D But can anybody tell me what the AW in medikit in this vest is? I ve tried google but with no results. Thx for

[rhino]

a tube you shove down a victims throat when that throat is collapsed/obstructed by damged tissue, to create Air Way, and save victim from chocking/suffocating

[joash]

a tube you shove down a victims throat when that throat is collapsed/obstructed by damged tissue, to create Air Way, and save victim from chocking/suffocating


I think repacz is asking what type of airway tube that is or where to get one. It looks quiet different from the ones I've seen for sale online.

[rhino]

aha






10characters

[Kaplanr]

Try Berman or Guedel Oral Airway.

[joash]

Hi I have a similar IDF vest from the mid 1990s. At the time it was not used for carrying a pistol and doesn't have holster. I'd like to add my Glock 19 to the vest, but I'm not sure how to go about it. Is there a safe way to carry my pistol with a round in the chamber in my vest? Can I just put it in one of the magazine pouches? Or is there some way to modify one of the pouches to turn it into a holster? I have some large pouches on the sides for several 40mm grenades which I have no use for as a civilian, so I was thinking these might be a good place to put my pistol.