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sgt_G
06-02-2010, 10:05 PM
ok got a question waaaaaaay back in the stone age in Jr high I read an article on some kids unearthing a WWII cache in Germany...or something like that anyone heard this story?

on side-topic I have always been fascinated on the myth of weapons caches, you know the so-called armegeddeon bunkers so I am hoping others here can share their "cache tale" real or rumored

Andreas
06-02-2010, 10:15 PM
post WWII most countrys made "what if" plans and stashed weapons and gear along with a plan of who where to use them if there was a war again..
We did so in Norway, many old depots have been abandoned during the years.. But there is still some left who only a handful of people know of..

Only a few years ago a villa was put on the market in a residential area not far from where i live..
It had a twist.. It had a massive complex under ground with generators etc etc.. No one in the area knew about its secret..
I think a IT-company bought it to put servers in it..

You could probably write a book about the subject...

Hauser
06-02-2010, 10:25 PM
Just to check I'm not going mental, didn't someone build bunkers along the German border where in case of soviet invasion nuclear weapons would be placed in, with the electronic timers kept warm by chickens or something?

PaulClift
06-02-2010, 10:29 PM
Yes, Nuclear land mines basically. Not sure about the chicken myth or if they needed to be put in bunkers. They were fairly low yield so not exactly massive.

I think in the Fulda Gap there are still places where you can see where demolitions charges could be put into bridges and road ways. There is a thread from ages ago somewhere on here.

Elbs
06-02-2010, 10:29 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock

Yep, crazy Brits.

Robert.V
06-02-2010, 10:38 PM
Operation Gladio ...look it up.

Pandemonium
06-03-2010, 05:23 AM
Operation Gladio ...look it up.
True, but let's not forget resistance weapon caches of WWII, after the war they had to disarm, but most of them buried their weapons and explosives, there was an interview with an older resistance memeber on the belgian television who showed the place where they had hidden their weapons, two crates of Kar98, one crate of m1 garands, 2 crates of stenguns, and a few others filled with handgrenades and TNT, the place is now the playground of the local school,( I do hope thay can save the guns if they are still intact.)

And as it comes to secret bunkers, yes there are more then you would expect, my grandparents house for example, it just looks like a large villa, but it was an SS headquarter, we are talking about a LARGE bunker (let's say about 60 mē, sidewalls about 1.5m armored concrete, armored roof of almost 2m) complete with armored doors, weapons and foodstorage, it's own generator and 3 escape tunnels ( two have been filled with concrete after burglars struck for the 3rd time in a row using these), and a large hall where russian POW were kept who had to work in the local mining industry.
I tried to find information on who used it but noboddy seems to remember anything about it, except for the neighbours, their vocabulary does not reach further then SS, tanks, and Russian prisoners

martinexsquaddie
06-03-2010, 07:14 AM
there were caches in WW2 used by the auxiliary home guard some of which were never recovered.
there are persistent rumours of soviet weapon caches in the UK mostly founded on a soviet spetnez transmitter recovered in wales

[WDW]Megaraptor
06-03-2010, 10:36 AM
A while ago a Soviet GRU weapons cache was unearthed in Switzerland. It was even ****y-trapped with explosives to go off if someone tried to dig it up.

The soviets had plans to hide weapons caches inside the United States, but no one knows if they actually did or not.

IronFinn
06-03-2010, 03:34 PM
Finnish army hid a lot of weapons at the end of WW2 to prepare for guerilla warfare in case of soviet occupation. People find these weapon caches still every now and then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_Cache_Case

Asheren
06-03-2010, 04:32 PM
They are finding those from time to time all over Poland mostly from ww2 and early commie period. Some were made by Polish resistance but some were prepared by the retreating Germans.
One of such german caches was discovered few years ago on my street. Houses there were used during commie period for army COs and later given to retired COs. It had only ammo but there was a military investigation becuase they also found some AK rounds.

RSone
06-03-2010, 05:50 PM
I believe there was a rather large weapon cache not too far from The Hague that got jacked by the Dutch drug mafia groups in the late 80's to early 90's

It was said there were around 40 caches, but from what i've read over time, it's reasonable to assume they were more small armories than just buried stuff, as some of the stuff the Dutch underworld managed to get a hold of that was supposedly linked to the Dutch stay-behind network is simply astounding.

It is unclear if the Dutch network was GLADIO or not. When then PM Lubbers supposedly disbanded the program in '92(finalized in '94), officials made it 'clear' that Operations and Intelligence, as it was called, was completely independant and not subordinate to NATO. In practice it would have had the same function as GLADIO, to IMO there would have to have been at least some top level coordination with other countries.

It's all rather shady. Wiki sez there were around 30 people in Intelligence(which was part of the cryptically named Directorate for General Affairs of the Armed Forces' General Staff) and 200 pax in Operations, who operated independently. The last known quarters of O was at the Navy's Kattenburg base in Amsterdam, which is generally considered to be heavily secured( Ayaan Hirsi Ali stayed there for a while, maybe Geert Wilders as well, but i'm not too sure on that)

There seems to be have been a link between criminal figures and members of O( in some cases the lines became blurred, as two members(including a Major) decided to blackmail Nutricia with poisoning of food products, when they were on inactive status after the units' formal disbandment. According to Wiki, higher echelons were scared that other ex-members would follow suit, so all of them were reinstated) As after the accidental discovery of a Gladio/O&I cache in Limburg it was decided that all inventory would be moved to a central location(this is after the cold war), and various locations were found empty, and as said, the items ended up in the hands of well known criminals. In '92 the Justice department raided a farm and found weapons, grenades, and 130 Kgs of
(mainly) Semtex

What's rather curious is that when Lubbers made the intention clear that O&I was to be disbanded, the I department had just moved to a new location and had, in concert with european stay behind orgs and reportedly the CIA and M16, acquired new cryptography equipment from Telefunken. The project cost $80 million, of which the Dutch government supposedly contributed $10 million.

In 97, the statesecretary for the Ministry of Education, Culture and Science ordered an investigation into O&I, but researchers found that archives were completely destroyed upon the 'disbandment' of the service.

Peter R de Vries(the same guy that did the hidden camera investigation in the Natalee Holloway case) claimed that as of 2007, GLADIO(or perhaps O&I) was still, active, and that large quantities of weapons were dissapearing into the underground, made untraceable by some kind of 'construction' as Wiki calls it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#The_Netherlands
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operatie_Gladio#Gladio_in_Nederland (Dutch version, more elaborate)

I don't know how much of this all is true, but it's all really, really shady....

sgt_G
06-03-2010, 07:10 PM
some interesting stuff sofar guys thanks!

still can't find that article on that one Nazi cache I remember hearing about...supposedly had tanks IIRC

anybody have a clue on that one?

Quietscheentchen
06-03-2010, 08:53 PM
I wonder whether there still are weapon caches from the RAF (the terrorist group, not the Royal Air Force) hidden in the woods.




I think in the Fulda Gap there are still places where you can see where demolitions charges could be put into bridges and road ways. There is a thread from ages ago somewhere on here.Such preparations were not limited to the Fulda Gap-Area, you could find them also in other places in Germany.

A site with pictures of prechamber shafts in roads and bridges, (foam!) obstacles and other interesting stuff (text in german, only translations of the obstacles themselves in english, sorry):
http://www.lostplaces.de/sperren-wallmeister.html (scroll down to see the pics)

Asheren
06-03-2010, 10:52 PM
some interesting stuff sofar guys thanks!

still can't find that article on that one Nazi cache I remember hearing about...supposedly had tanks IIRC

anybody have a clue on that one?

Cant help you with that anyway its general rule of a thumb to be extra careful when demolishing/constructing stuff in any area where nazi had their "secret facilities". In my city there is a small tunel network that is a parking today because there is no info about it.(if there was anything important there). Anyway city authorities does not allow to build or do anything that would require to dig deep in that place just in cease.

deagle
06-04-2010, 01:41 AM
if we posted, they wouldn't be secret no more right ?

don't drink any liquid with the skull and 2 bones in the form of an X

just like there were no WMD's, there's no such thing as secret weaps caches

Asheren
06-04-2010, 06:47 AM
if we posted, they wouldn't be secret no more right ?

don't drink any liquid with the skull and 2 bones in the form of an X

just like there were no WMD's, there's no such thing as secret weaps caches

I guess you have drunk a little bit of liquid with % ? :D

Dispatcher
06-04-2010, 07:00 AM
I believe there was a rather large weapon cache not too far from The Hague that got jacked by the Dutch drug mafia groups in the late 80's to early 90's

It was said there were around 40 caches, but from what i've read over time, it's reasonable to assume they were more small armories than just buried stuff, as some of the stuff the Dutch underworld managed to get a hold of that was supposedly linked to the Dutch stay-behind network is simply astounding.

It is unclear if the Dutch network was GLADIO or not. When then PM Lubbers supposedly disbanded the program in '92(finalized in '94), officials made it 'clear' that Operations and Intelligence, as it was called, was completely independant and not subordinate to NATO. In practice it would have had the same function as GLADIO, to IMO there would have to have been at least some top level coordination with other countries.

It's all rather shady. Wiki sez there were around 30 people in Intelligence(which was part of the cryptically named Directorate for General Affairs of the Armed Forces' General Staff) and 200 pax in Operations, who operated independently. The last known quarters of O was at the Navy's Kattenburg base in Amsterdam, which is generally considered to be heavily secured( Ayaan Hirsi Ali stayed there for a while, maybe Geert Wilders as well, but i'm not too sure on that)

There seems to be have been a link between criminal figures and members of O( in some cases the lines became blurred, as two members(including a Major) decided to blackmail Nutricia with poisoning of food products, when they were on inactive status after the units' formal disbandment. According to Wiki, higher echelons were scared that other ex-members would follow suit, so all of them were reinstated) As after the accidental discovery of a Gladio/O&I cache in Limburg it was decided that all inventory would be moved to a central location(this is after the cold war), and various locations were found empty, and as said, the items ended up in the hands of well known criminals. In '92 the Justice department raided a farm and found weapons, grenades, and 130 Kgs of
(mainly) Semtex

What's rather curious is that when Lubbers made the intention clear that O&I was to be disbanded, the I department had just moved to a new location and had, in concert with european stay behind orgs and reportedly the CIA and M16, acquired new cryptography equipment from Telefunken. The project cost $80 million, of which the Dutch government supposedly contributed $10 million.

In 97, the statesecretary for the Ministry of Education, Culture and Science ordered an investigation into O&I, but researchers found that archives were completely destroyed upon the 'disbandment' of the service.

Peter R de Vries(the same guy that did the hidden camera investigation in the Natalee Holloway case) claimed that as of 2007, GLADIO(or perhaps O&I) was still, active, and that large quantities of weapons were dissapearing into the underground, made untraceable by some kind of 'construction' as Wiki calls it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#The_Netherlands
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operatie_Gladio#Gladio_in_Nederland (Dutch version, more elaborate)

I don't know how much of this all is true, but it's all really, really shady....


"The biggest trick the devil ever pulled, was to convince everyone he didnt exist..."

Interesting stuff in this thread, i remember there having been another thread on this issue. Searchfunction is ****ed all to hell though.

JRT
06-04-2010, 07:21 AM
I thought this was interesting:

Coordinated by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), {the secret armies} were run by the European military secret services (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_service) in close cooperation with the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the British foreign secret service Secret Intelligence Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Intelligence_Service) (SIS, also MI6). Trained together with US Green Berets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Special_Forces) and British Special Air Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Air_Service) (SAS), these clandestine NATO soldiers, armed with underground arms-caches, prepared against a potential Soviet invasion and occupation of Western Europe, as well as the coming to power of communist parties. The clandestine international network covered the European NATO membership, including Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, and Turkey, as well as the neutral European countries of Austria, Finland, Sweden and Switzerland.

"The situation in each Scandinavian country was different. Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway) and Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark) were NATO allies, Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden) held to the neutrality that had taken her through two world wars, and Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland) were required to defer in its foreign policy to the Soviet power directly on its borders. Thus, in one set of these countries (this meaning Norway and Denmark) the governments themselves would build their own stay-behind nets, counting on activating them from exile to carry on the struggle. These nets had to be co-ordinated with NATO's plans, their radios had to be hooked to a future exile location, and the specialised equipment had to be secured from CIA and secretly cached in snowy hideouts for later use. In other set of countries, CIA would have to do the job alone or with, at best, "unofficial" local help, since the politics of those governments barred them from collaborating with NATO (this meaning Sweden and Finland), and any exposure would arouse immediate protest from the local Communist press, Soviet diplomats and loyal Scandinavians who hoped that neutrality or nonalignment would allow them to slip through a World War III unharmed.

In 1991, the Swedish media claimed that a secret stay-behind army had existed in neutral Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland) with an exile base in Stockholm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm). Finnish Defence Minister Elisabeth Rehn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_Rehn) called the revelations "a fairy tale", adding cautiously "or at least an incredible story, of which I know nothing.".[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#cite_note-ETH_chronology-27) However, in his memoirs, former CIA director William Colby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Colby) described the setting-up of stay-behind armies in Scandinavian countries, including Finland, with or without the assistance of local governments, to prepare for a Soviet invasion.[46] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#cite_note-colby-45)

In 1951, CIA agent William Colby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Colby), based at the CIA station in Stockholm supported the training of stay-behind armies in neutral Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden) and Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland) and in the NATO members Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway) and Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark). In 1953, the police arrested right winger Otto Hallberg and discovered the Swedish stay-behind army. Hallberg was set free and charges against him were mysteriously dropped.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

Of course it's just one man and his memoirs, but interesting stuff anyway on the interaction between NATO and CIA with neutral countries.

RSone
06-04-2010, 07:25 AM
The Dutch government is probably involved in more black bag stuff than we might expect. The NSO groundstations in Burum(two 18m diameter dishes and a number of smaller ones) and formerly Zoutkamp are a poignant testament to that, as well as the interception antennae in Kamp Holterhoek(groundstation Eibergen), where Defense has/had two 60m high antennae, and has now placed at least 52 smaller ones, around 15 m high, as an alternative to a number of antannea they originally wanted to build, the largest of which was to be 95m high and that were all interconnected...

Links(unfortunately all in Dutch):
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationale_Signals_Intelligence_Organisatie
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellietgrondstation_NSO

There was/ is also a transmitting stations somewhere near Ouddorp in Zeeland, that was rumoured to be the singular most important target in The Netherlands for WARPAC forces if the worst ever came to pass.

SoSo
06-04-2010, 08:34 PM
Years ago, when I was a kid, I was given a stack of old "True Crime" magazines. I remember one story about detectives in (then)West Germany during the Sixties, looking for a serial killer. For some reason, suspicion fell upon an old veteran; maybe due to his strange behavior, I don't remember. But when they came to speak to him, and asked if he knew anything about the missing people, he became noticably anxious, and evasive. Of course, this aroused their suspicion. Coming back with an order allowing them to search his home, they pushed him out of the way and began rummaging through all his belongings. The homeowner grew more agitated. Suddenly, one of the policemen called out from the backyard, where they had been poking around, looking for graves, "Hey, look here, it looks like some kind of hidden trapdoor!" At this point the old German burst into hysterics, crying Nein, nein, even flinging himself onto the officers, in a feeble attempt to keep them from digging up his yard. But they were able to restrain him easily enough, and began to excavate the hidey hole in the backyard. Guess what they found back there? No human remains, but a secret cellar, filled with Third Reich uniforms, banners, medals, and other stuff from that unhappy period, which apparently the old man couldn't bear to throw away, and had hidden in 1945, and also some old guns and ammunition. It was as if he had preserved this hidden cache, waiting for some kind of guerrilla uprising, that would bring down the Bundesrepublik and create a Fourth Reich.
I don't remember if he was prosecuted for having all this old Nazi stuff buried in his yard, or not. Here in America, he could sell it all for a small fortune.

Flecktarn92
06-04-2010, 11:49 PM
Isn't there a tunnel system outside Budhapest where the supposed "Nazi Gold" is hidden. They also claimed that the Nazi doom weapon was housed there. Apparently a large portion of the place was blocked off by the Germans before they left. They had it in cities of the underworld on History Channel. Its sad that the government doesn't try and preserve/explore it.

SoSo
06-06-2010, 07:17 AM
Isn't there a tunnel system outside Budhapest where the supposed "Nazi Gold" is hidden. They also claimed that the Nazi doom weapon was housed there. Apparently a large portion of the place was blocked off by the Germans before they left. They had it in cities of the underworld on History Channel. Its sad that the government doesn't try and preserve/explore it.

I think the reason they gave for not trying to excavate the collapsed tunnels was that they were unstable and unsafe, but I don't see why a small opening couldn't be made, and some kind of remote vehicle sent in, with a camera.

Pandemonium
06-06-2010, 08:35 AM
I think the reason they gave for not trying to excavate the collapsed tunnels was that they were unstable and unsafe, but I don't see why a small opening couldn't be made, and some kind of remote vehicle sent in, with a camera.

Don't you think they wouldn't already have done that if there was gold down there,

Magister
06-07-2010, 09:12 AM
Besides all the Gladio weapons caches there were less secret caches of explosives in the Netherlands. Perhaps its better to call them stockpiles. These were to be used for blowing up some of the famous Dutch waterworks in order to inundate the land when the Soviets were advance through Germany. This was called the IJssel Line. I think all stockpiles are now dismantled.

http://www.ijssellinie.nl/ENGELS/index.html (Link to IJssel line foundation)

kevlar308
06-10-2010, 02:03 PM
Megaraptor;4985491']A while ago a Soviet GRU weapons cache was unearthed in Switzerland. It was even ****y-trapped with explosives to go off if someone tried to dig it up.

The soviets had plans to hide weapons caches inside the United States, but no one knows if they actually did or not.

Why hide guns in America? We have more than anybody.

RSone
06-10-2010, 02:04 PM
Why hide guns in America? We have more than anybody.

Stealing them would be a bit more 'noisy' than simply digging up a few crates of AK's.

JCR
06-10-2010, 02:06 PM
My uncle has a house with a secret nazi bunker (tm) under it.
Or better, beside it, the entrance is level with the house and it goes deep into the mountainside.
But there's still air coming from the vents.
Nobody entered it after 45, but the entrance is still intact and he has the key.
I've been talking with my cousins about an expedition since we were kids but we never did it.
Don't know what it is. Too far away from the nearest town and too far up the hill to be an air raid shelter, so I guess either a command facility of some sort or a private bunker for some local nazi party chief.

Quietscheentchen
06-10-2010, 03:05 PM
Maybe it's the place where the secret Nazi **** was stored, "Naughty BDM-chicks' summercamp adventures Vol. VII".

I would be cautious when entering it, perhaps the air in some parts contains nasty mold spores.

JCR
06-10-2010, 03:14 PM
Maybe it's the place where the secret Nazi **** was stored, "Naughty BDM-chicks' summercamp adventures Vol. VII".

I would be cautious when entering it, perhaps the air in some parts contains nasty mold spores.

The spores and other nasties were one of the reasons we didn't enter it.
The other was that my uncle doesn't own the property, he just rents it, so we'd need the owners permission.
I allready considered writing lostplaces.de or some other bunker exploring experts like Berliner Unterwelten.

zulu261
06-10-2010, 03:24 PM
The spores and other nasties were one of the reasons we didn't enter it.
The other was that my uncle doesn't own the property, he just rents it, so we'd need the owners permission.
I allready considered writing lostplaces.de or some other bunker exploring experts like Berliner Unterwelten.

You sure that nobody went into it after 45? Could be very interesting...if you're in doubt, buy some protective face masks and enter it. Or tell me where it is Ill do it :D Dont forget some chemlights, chalk and maybe even rope access equipment. You can never know whats in there...oh and a gun for random SS zombies, just in case. :D

edit

You say theres air coming from the vents...I dont think there are generatos on nuclear power so the air must come from the outside. If the bunker is ventilated like that, I dont think that there are resistant spores around hence it is fresh air.

JCR
06-10-2010, 03:54 PM
Not air coming out in the sense of ventilation, but a notable cold draft.
The bunker is still there and hasn't collapsed. Actually the main entrance was blown after the war and this is the emergency exit.

Quietscheentchen
06-10-2010, 05:29 PM
I allready considered writing lostplaces.de or some other bunker exploring experts like Berliner Unterwelten.Yep, this could be a good idea, i think they also know from experience how to speak with the owner to get a permission.


And don't forget your rubber boots.

sgt_G
06-10-2010, 08:56 PM
pics! we want pics too! go fer it JCR!

(damn if I wasn't in the states)