Modern fighter combat records

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

So I decided to compile some statistics to see what they could tell us about combat statistics of various fighter aircraft currently in use. Let's see what they show:


The Format is:
[Name of aircraft] Air-to-air kills - Air-to-air losses - Losses to ground fire
[Name of conflict aircraft was used in] (Nation that used aircraft in said conflict) Air-to-air kills - Air-to-air losses - Losses to ground fire

Aircraft which were destroyed on the ground are not included in this analysis, because any plane can get destroyed on the ground no matter how good it or its pilot is.

F-16 Falcon 76-1-5
Gulf War (USA) 0-0-3
No-Fly Zones (USA) 2-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 4-0-1
Kosovo (USA) 1-0-1
Kosovo (Netherlands) 1-0-0
Kosovo (Portugal, Belgium, Denmark, Turkey) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1979-1986 (Israel) 6-0-0
Operation Opera (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 44-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 3-0-0
Intifada (2000-present) (Israel) 0-0-0
Soviet-Afghan War (Pakistan) 10-0-0
Border clashes (Pakistan) 1-0-0
Kargil War (Pakistan) 0-0-0
Northwest border wars (Pakistan) 0-0-0
Aegean Sea clashes (Turkey) 1-1-0
Venezuelan Coup 1992 (Venezuela) 3-0-0

F-15A/C/I/S Eagle 102-0-0
Gulf War (USA) 32-0-0
Gulf War (Saudi Arabia) 2-0-0
Northern Watch, Southern Watch, Desert Fox (USA) 2-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 0-0-0
Kosovo (USA) 4-0-0
Afghanistan (USA) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1979-1981 (Israel) 19-0-0
Operation Opera (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 38-0-0
Lebanon War 1982-2000 (Israel) 4-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 0-0-0
Iran Gulf Clash 1984 (Saudi Arabia) 1-0-0

F-15E Strike Eage 1-0-3
Gulf War (USA) 1-0-2
Northern Watch, Southern Watch, Desert Fox (USA) 0-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 0-0-0
Kosovo (USA) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA) 0-0-0
Iraq War (USA) 0-0-1
Lebanon War 1982-2000 (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 0-0-0
Yemen Border Clashes (Saudi Arabia) 0-0-0

F/A-18 Hornet 2-1-1
Gulf of Sidra 1986 (USA) 0-0-0
Gulf War (USA) 2-1-1
Gulf War (Canada) 0-0-0
Kosovo (USA) 0-0-0
Kosovo (Spain) 0-0-0
Kosovo (Canada) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA, Australia) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA, Australia) 0-0-0

F/A-18E/F/G Super Hornet 0-0-0
NFZs (USA) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0

F-14 Tomcat 135-4-4
Vietnam (1975) (USA) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (USA) (1980) 2-0-0
Lebanon 1983 (USA) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (1986) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (1989) 2-0-0
Gulf War (USA) 1-0-1
Iraq NFZs (USA) 0-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 0-0-0
Kosovo (USA) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 130-4-4

F-4 Phantom 306-106-545
Vietnam War (US Navy) 40-7-66
Vietnam War (USMC) 3-1-74
Vietnam War (USAF) 108-33-337
Desert Storm (USAF) 0-0-1
NFZs (Turkey) 0-0-0
Soviet border clash 1976 (Iran) 1-0-0
Dhofar War (Iran) 0-0-1
Kurdish rebellion (Iran) 0-0-1
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 68-29-33
Iran Gulf Clash 1984 (Iran) 0-1-0
Kurdish Civil War (Iran) 0-0-1
War of Attrition (Israel) 26-3-5
Yom Kippur War (Israel) 55-28-22
Syrian border clashes 1974-1981 (Israel) 4-3-1
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 1-1-1
Lebanon War 1982-2000 (Israel) 0-0-2

Mirage 2000 1-0-1
Gulf War (France, UAE) 0-0-0
Bosnia (France) 0-0-1
Kosovo (France) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (France) 0-0-0
Aegean Sea 1996 (Greece) 1-0-0
Kargil War (India) 0-0-0
Alto-Cenapa War (Peru) 0-0-0

Sea Harrier 21-0-3
Falklands War (UK) 21-0-2
Gulf War (UK) 0-0-0
Bosnia (UK) 0-0-1
Kosovo (UK) 0-0-0
Sierra Leone 2000 (UK) 0-0-0
Iraq War (UK) 0-0-0

Mirage F.1 24-43-20
Chadian-Libyan War (France) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (France) 0-0-0
Paquisha War (Ecuador) 0-0-0
Alto-Cenapa War (Equador) 2-0-0
Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 15-35-11?
Gulf War (Iraq) 0-8-0
Gulf War (Kuwait) 3 (possibly 12)-0-0
Western Saharan War (Morocco) 0-0-7
Angola Border War (South Africa) 4-0-2
Aegean Sea clashes (Greece) 0-1-0

Rafale 0-0-0
Afghanistan (France) 0-0-0

Tornado ADV 0-0-0
Gulf War (UK, Saudi Arabia) 0-0-0
NFZs (UK) 0-0-0
Kosovo (Italy) 0-0-0
Iraq War (UK) 0-0-0

JF-17 Thunder 0-0-0
Waziristan War/NW Pakistan campaigns (Pakistan) 0-0-0

J-7 1-0-0
Sudanese Civil War (Sudan) 0-0-0
Uganda-Tanzania War (Tanzania) 0-0-0
Sri Lankan Civil War (Sri Lanka) 1-0-0

MiG-21 240-501-[too little information for an accurate count of losses to ground fire]
Vietnam War (North Vietnam) 78-95-0
Vietnam War (North Korea) 1-0-0
Vietnam War (USSR) 6-0-0
1967 border clashes (Syria) 0-7-0
Six-Day War (Egypt) 5-13-
Six-Day War (Syria) 0-7-
Six-Day War (Iraq) 0-1-
War of Attrition (Syria) 7-56
War of Attrition (USSR) 0-5-0
War of Attrition (Egypt) 18-93
Yom Kippur War (Syria) 30-26
Yom Kippur War (Egypt) 26-65
Yom Kippur War (Iraq) 1-9
Egypt-Libya Border War (Egypt) 6-1
Soviet-Iranian border clashes (USSR) 1-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1974-1981 (Syria) 5-26
Lebanon War 1982 (Syria) 2-38
Turkish border violation 1986 (Syria) 1-0-0
Ogaden War (Somalia) 1-6
Angola Bush War (Angola) 1-3
Congo Civil War (Zaire) 0-0-0
Congo Civil War (Angola) 0-0-1
Uganda-Tanzania War (Uganda) 0-0-1
Uganda-Tanzania War (Tanzania) 0-0-1
Mozambique Civil War (Mozambique) 1-0-0
Sudanese Civil War (Sudan) 0-0-3
Somali Civil War (Somalia) 0-0-0
Ethiopian-Eritrean War (Ethiopia) 0-3
Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 32-40
Gulf War (Iraq) 0-4-0
Indo-Pakistani War 1965 (India) 0-0-
Indo-Pakistani War 1971 (India) 6-1-
Kargil War (India) 0-0-1
Soviet-Afghan War (Afghanistan) 0-4
Atlantique Incident 1999 (India) 1-0-0
Afghan Civil War 1992-1996 (United Front) 4-0-
Afghan Civil War 1992-1996 (Dostum-Gulbuddin Militia) 0-2-
Abkhazian War (Georgia) 0-0-0
Nagorno-Karabakh War (Azerbaijan) 0-0-6
Nagorno-Karabakh War (Armenia) 0-0-1
1986 Cuban border incursion (Cuba) 1-0-0
Slovenian War (Yugoslavia) 0-0-0
Croatian War (Yugoslavia) 1-0-7
Croatian War (Croatia) 0-0-1
Bosnia (Serbia) 0-0-0
Kosovo (Serbia) 1-0-0
Balloon shootdown (Belarus) 1-0-0
1966 US China border violation 1-0-0
1963 US Czech border violation 1-0-0
Korean DMZ (North Korea) 1-0-0
Sa'dah Insurgency (Yemen) 0-0-1

MiG-23 25-102-[too little information for an accurate count of losses to ground fire]
Syrian border clashes 1974-1981 (Syria) 3-2-0
Lebanon War 1982 (Syria) 1-30-
Israeli UAV shootdown 2002 (Syria) 1-0-0
Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 16-56
Gulf War (Iraq) 0-8-0
NFZs (Iraq) 0-1-0
Gulf of Sidra 1989 (Libya) 0-2-0
Egypt-Libya Border War (Libya) 0-2
Soviet-Afghan War (USSR) 0-3
Iran-Afghan border violations (USSR) 4-0-0
Ethiopian-Eritrean War (Ethiopia) 0-1
Angola Bush War (Cuba) 0-0-0

MiG-25 8-8-1
War of Attrition 0-0-0
Yom Kippur War 0-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1974-1981 (Syria) 0-2-0
Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 5-1-0
Syrian-Iraqi border violation (1986) (Iraq) 1-0-0
Soviet-Iranian border violations (1986-87) (USSR) 0-2-0
Gulf War (Iraq) 1-2-0
NFZs (Iraq) 1-1-0
Nagorno-Karabakh War (Azerbaijan) 0-0-1

MiG-29 6-18-1
Lebanon War 1982-2000 (Syria) 0-2-0
Gulf War (Iraq) 0-5-0
Transnistra War (Moldova, Russia) 0-0-0
Brothers in Rescue incident (Cuba) 2-0-0
Slovenian War (Yugoslavia) 0-0-0
Croatian War (Yugoslavia) 0-0-0
Bosnia (Serbia) 0-0-0
Kosovo (Serbia) 0-6-0
Kargil War (India) 0-0-0
Ethiopian-Eritrean War (Eritrea) 3-5-0
Georgian border violation 2008 (Russia) 1-0-0
Darfur War (Sudan) 0-0-1

Su-27 6-0-2
Abkhazia War (Russia) 0-0-1
First Chechen War (Russia) 1-0-0
South Ossetia War (Russia) 0-0-0
Ethiopian-Eritrean War (Ethiopia) 5-0-0
Somali Civil War (Ethiopia) 0-0-0
Angolan Civil War (Angola) 0-0-1

F-5 Freedom Fighter/Tiger 25-23-30
Vietnam War (USA) 0-0-1
Vietnam War (South Vietnam) ?-?-?
Vietnamese-Cambodia War (Vietnam) ?-?-?
Ogaden War (Ethiopia) 7-0-2
Yom Kippur War (Morocco) 0-0-0
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 18-23-12
Western Saharan War (Morocco) 0-0-14
Yemen Border Clashes 1979 (Taiwan) ?-?-?
Gulf War (Saudi Arabia) 0-0-1

Fighters that have yet to see combat: F-22 Raptor, Saab Gripen, Eurofighter Typhoon, Ching-Kuo, J-10, Saeqeh, Azarakhsh, MiG-31, Su-30, Su-33, Su-35.

Observations:

1) US multi-role fighters seem to be primarily used in the strike role. They barely break even between kills and losses on the air-combat scorecard.

2) The F-15 Eagle is completely dominant as a fighter, 1) because it's a really good aircraft, and 2) because it's so expensive it can only be used by nations with enough money to invest in the training and maintenance it takes to make really good air forces.

3) Looking at the losses of the F-4 to ground fire, one can see how big of a threat SAMs were in the 1960s and 1970s. Compare this to more modern fighters and one can see how aircraft design has outpaced SAM systems.

4) The poor performance of the Mirage F.1 is somewhat surprising.

5) The ridiculously high kill ratio of the F-14 in Iranian service is also surprising. The common canard is that training trumps technology, but an air force with great technology but beset by political purges and struggling with maintenance problems and embargoes can still have a turkey shoot against an air force with both poor training and poor technology.

6) Su-27 is the only Russian fighter to have a positive kill ratio in combat, but as we all know this is likely due to "monkey model" export fighters, as well as the poor training standards of Arab air forces.

7) The unbeatens (aircraft that have engaged in significant air combat but never been shot down in air to air combat): F-15 Eagle, Sea Harrier, Su-27.

[skyeye]

Thanks, nice piece of work. The F-4 losses were painful.

[goat89]

Thanks, nice piece of work. The F-4 losses were painful.
I watching a documentary that said that it was due to lack of training. It was long time since WWII and they needed a good training program. Apparently thats why they sent fighters to the UK to train and form Top Gun Fighter School stateside.
F-14s were my fav man... F4s was like the younger sister of the F-14...
No PEDO.
:D

[Beast of war]

Kosovo (Netherlands) 1-0-0

First air to air kill after WWII for the Dutch!


An F-16AM from the Royal Netherlands Air Force locked onto a Yugoslav MiG-29, fired an AIM-120 AMRAAAM, and downed the Fulcrum in the opening scenes of the NATO Operation Allied Force in March

http://planken.org/balkans/allied-force/operations-day-day/dutch-mig-kill

[CG51]

The F-4 was used as a bomb truck often, look at the USMC ratio. Interested in the ratio of sorties over the parallel and the amount hit by AAA (as in 23mm and 37mm) at low altitude runs in all areas.

F-14 is a beautiful bird. Check out the Iranians.

[Lefty]

Thanks for this information, a really interesting read. Looks like you put some time into it too!

[HellToupee]

Megaraptor;4994521']
3) Looking at the losses of the F-4 to ground fire, one can see how big of a threat SAMs were in the 1960s and 1970s. Compare this to more modern fighters and one can see how aircraft design has outpaced SAM systems.


Most of those early losses were to AAA, while yom-kipper was more to SAMs. We have yet to see modern SAMs being used other than a handful in the Georgian war.

[Corrupt]

Yeah go harrier. Represent!

Yeah thats pretty interesting to look at. WOuld be interesting to see how the Migs would perform with "well trained" aircrew and against opposition not totally superior.
Any numbers for the ground attack tornado just out of interest? Cant recall how many we lost to ground fire

[GB_FXST]

Very interesting.

Two minor quibbles: The IAI Kfir and Nesher are still in service (Columbia and Argentina) and saw action with the IAF.

[arcadian]

As far as the Fulcrum is concerned, you seem to have missed the two Soviet kills against defecting Afghan Su-17s attempting to attack the Presidential Palace, mentioned in Air Forces Monthly few years back I.I.R.C..
Please don't start with the "quote your source" routine please...it's not like I'm claiming thousands of kills just two

Also a Moldovan Fulcrum was lost to AAA during the Transnistra War

At least 2 Flankers were lost to AAA during the first Chechen War on what pilots called "Suicide Flights", basically pilots used the Flankers low speed for visual recon, meaning easy pickings for ground fire

You also missed the PLAAF J-7 shot down by a VPAAF MiG-19 during that little incident

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Yeah go harrier. Represent!

Yeah thats pretty interesting to look at. WOuld be interesting to see how the Migs would perform with "well trained" aircrew and against opposition not totally superior.
Any numbers for the ground attack tornado just out of interest? Cant recall how many we lost to ground fire

Well for what it's worth MiG-29s in Eritrean service were flown by Russian/Ukrainian pilots and still performed terribly against Ethiopian Su-27s. But then and again the Su-27 is a half generation ahead of the MiG-29.

As for the Tornadoes IDSs:
Gulf War saw 1 RAF and 1 Saudi lost to AAA, and 5 RAF, 1 Italian lost to SAMs and 1 RAF lost on January 22nd to an unknown cause, possibly controlled flight into terrain. I believe this was the highest loss rate of any type during Desert Storm. Despite the perception that this was due to being given the hazardous duty of dropping JP.233 on Iraqi runways, actually only one Tornado was lost on a JP.233 mission.

One RAF Tornado managed to hit an Iraqi MiG-25 with a JP.233 submunition as it was taking off from an airfield, disabling the aircraft.

I'm not aware of any kills or losses to enemy action in the other conflicts the Tornado has fought in (NFZs, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Houthi Rebels).

[T-5 Killer]

Very interesting info. Man those F-4 and Mig-21 losses are huge!

[Elbs]

Sea Harrier 21-0-2
Falklands War (UK) 21-0-2
Gulf War (UK) 0-0-0
Bosnia (UK) 0-0-1
Kosovo (UK) 0-0-0
Sierra Leone 2000 (UK) 0-0-0
Iraq War (UK) 0-0-0


I hate to nitpick such a good piece of work, but the SHAR ought to be 21-0-3, since Richardson got popped over Serbia in 1994. You got the loss right but didn't add it to the two shot down by the Argentinians. :)

Great work again

[Elbs]

Repeated...

[Nuclear_Warrior]

Back in 1992 two Venezuelan F-16s shot down two OV-10 Broncos and one Tucano. Both Broncos were taken down using the AIM9 while the Tucano with cannon fire.

[shadowsrider]

I don't want to be pain in the ass but what is your source? I just made a quick check with acig.org and basically your data is in line what is written there.

As for Russian fighters kill/loss ratio: it was very rare situation when those fighters were piloted by superior pilots.
I am an amateur pilot and I had opportunity to talk some ex military pilots in my airfield. They were training pilots from Libya during the great times of People's Republic of Poland.
Due to local standards no Libyan pilot passed the training. But base commander received an order to make them pass and give A++

I would say that the only time where MiGs and Su-s were in really good hands it was India.

[Swarovski]

Very nice :)
You missed the Dassault Mirage III (and variants) though, it's still active in some countries.
This aircraft saw some intensive action in the Israeli-Arab wars (mainly Yom Kippur and the war of attrition).
Check it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_III

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

I don't want to be pain in the ass but what is your source? I just made a quick check with acig.org and basically your data is in line what is written there.


ACIG is one major source, also:

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/
http://128.121.102.226/aaloss.html

[donllano]

Very interesting.

Two minor quibbles: The IAI Kfir and Nesher are still in service (Columbia and Argentina) and saw action with the IAF.

The Kfir is also in service in Sri Lanka and Ecuador... I believe a Ecuadorian Kfir shot down a Dragonfly in the Cenepa War.

[skyeye]

IMHO, most of the American aircraft losses over North Vietnam were due to the politically mandated ROE which channeled the planes into the same patterns and runs over and over. This was to minimize civilian causalities and protect politically incorrect targets. However, the result was many unnecessary American losses and ineffective use of the aircraft. Damn politicians.

[the_Wicked]

No mention of F-16 in your observations? While one fighter has been downed in air-to-air combat, its record is still much more impressive than say Su-27.

[JCR]

IMHO, most of the American aircraft losses over North Vietnam were due to the politically mandated ROE which channeled the planes into the same patterns and runs over and over. This was to minimize civilian causalities and protect politically incorrect targets. However, the result was many unnecessary American losses and ineffective use of the aircraft. Damn politicians.

Yeah, every time a military loses a war it is the politician's fault. Was the same with us 1918. The military never makes mistakes.
;)

Seriously, the american ROE was factor in the early air combat in 1966-68, but by that time the USAF actually had the upper hand in most combats.
The larger portion of USAF losses, especially of F-4s occured in the later phase, during Linebacker I and II.
By then ROEs were relaxed, missiles performed better and the rest of the ROE limitations were made up by technology:
The US could interrogate the IFF transponders of soviet made planes, which enabled them to ID contacts and clear US fighters to engage at long range.
Yet during these days the kill-loss ratio was worse than before.
Simply because the US pilots were less experienced (the best had allready expired their tours) and the large scale strike packages to North Vietnam were simply difficult to defend.
North Vietnam was pretty small and even without political restrictions, direction and timing would've been predictable.
And at the time, the technology of surveying the whole north Vietnamese airspace at such a distance and to keep up communications with all planes wasn't there.
In fact, AWACS was developed due to this experience.
The US knew vaguely where the MiGs were but couldn't get the information to the pilots in proper time due to inadequate technology.
The whole idea of coordinating air assets modern style was developed because the USAAF hadn't been able to protect against the surprise attacks of the MiG-21s in 1970 and 72.
The navy fared better because they usually hit coastal targets and had much smaller inland routes and better radar coverage.
Source: Marshall Mitchell: "Clashes"

[baboon6]

Yeah, every time a military loses a war it is the politician's fault. Was the same with us 1918. The military never makes mistakes.
;)

Seriously, the american ROE was factor in the early air combat in 1966-68, but by that time the USAF actually had the upper hand in most combats.
The larger portion of USAF losses, especially of F-4s occured in the later phase, during Linebacker I and II.
By then ROEs were relaxed, missiles performed better and the rest of the ROE limitations were made up by technology:
The US could interrogate the IFF transponders of soviet made planes, which enabled them to ID contacts and clear US fighters to engage at long range.
Yet during these days the kill-loss ratio was worse than before.
Simply because the US pilots were less experienced (the best had allready expired their tours) and the large scale strike packages to North Vietnam were simply difficult to defend.
North Vietnam was pretty small and even without political restrictions, direction and timing would've been predictable.
And at the time, the technology of surveying the whole north Vietnamese airspace at such a distance and to keep up communications with all planes wasn't there.
In fact, AWACS was developed due to this experience.
The US knew vaguely where the MiGs were but couldn't get the information to the pilots in proper time due to inadequate technology.
The whole idea of coordinating air assets modern style was developed because the USAAF hadn't been able to protect against the surprise attacks of the MiG-21s in 1970 and 72.
The navy fared better because they usually hit coastal targets and had much smaller inland routes and better radar coverage.
Source: Marshall Mitchell: "Clashes"

EC-121 AEW aircraft were already in service although of course the technology was fairly primitive compared to the E-3. The USN had the E-1 Tracer, a variant of the S-2.

http://www.dean-boys.com/552/college_eye_extract_from_the_checo.htm

[JCR]

EC-121 AEW aircraft were already in service although of course the technology was fairly primitive compared to the E-3. The USN had the E-1 Tracer, a variant of the S-2.

http://www.dean-boys.com/552/college_eye_extract_from_the_checo.htm

AWACS as a USAF technology was an offshoot of Vietnam.
EC-121 were used as test aircraft for AWACS in Vietnam allready.
The Navy originated AEW technology in WW2.
AEW wasn't AWACs, it was only a part of it (the radar part)
The only thing comparable to AWACS was the seaborne "Red Crown" controllers aboard USN cruisers that were very effective and often contributed to USAF victories as well.

The problem with the EC-121s was lack of range. Actually the best range results were gained by flying very low over water and "bouncing" the radar waves off the ocean.
Imagine flying a Super Connie (with a lot of antennas added to it) at 100 feet over the sea at night. With fishing boats. And in tropical heat...

But the best intel tool for the US wasn't Radar, it was IFF interrogation ("Combat tree"). Much longer range than radar.
Unfortunately all contacts, radar or IFF had to be relayed to a control center in Thailand (with 1970s communication tech).
Often they could follow MiGs bouncing a US package via IFF and radio intercept, but they couldn't warn the USAF pilots due to long delays.
The USN "Red Crown" cruisers often had this data available directly and could radio a warning in time.
Strangely the soviets apparently never changed the IFF package of their export MiGs and "combat tree" equipment was still used successfully by the Iranians almost 10 years later.
I suppose they fitted their own aircraft with different IFF though, with all their spies they surely got wind of the fact that the US could interrogate their IFF.

[Mastermind]

Excellent post! Thanks.

And, @everyone else...You guys are so smart...great reading here...thanks to all. My brain got two sizes bigger already. ;-)

[Peanut]

First air to air kill after WWII for the Dutch!



http://planken.org/balkans/allied-force/operations-day-day/dutch-mig-kill

Is that the most recent Air-to-Air kill in history?

[JPBaz]

Excellent post and thread!

[skyeye]

@ JCR, Thanks for the lead to “Clashes”. I hear you, but still say “damn politicians”.

[jtv3062]

Great post.

Any stats on the USMC Harriers?

[TakeIt]

Any details on those entries:

Mig-21
Vietnam War (USSR) 6-0-0

Mig-23
Soviet-Afghan War (USSR) 0-3

Mig-25
Soviet-Iranian border violations (1986-87) (USSR) 0-2-0 ?

[Waterman]

The Chinese J-8 ?-1-? (Hainan Island Incident: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident where a J-8 was "downed" by a collision with a US Navy P3)

Soviet Su-15 1-?-? (KAL 007 shootdown: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAL_007)

[TakeIt]

Soviet Su-15 1-?-? (KAL 007 shootdown: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAL_007) Regarding Su-15 also Boeing 707 on 20 April 1978 (KAL902) by cpt.A.Bosov and Canadair CL-44 on 17 July 1981(rammed) by cpt.V.Kulyapin.

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Any details on those entries:

Mig-21
Vietnam War (USSR) 6-0-0

Soviet advisers flying with VPAF. Namely, Vadim Petrovich Shchbakov who is believed to have become an ace in the war.


Mig-23
Soviet-Afghan War (USSR) 0-3

IIRC they were lost in border clashes with Pakistan. Upon re-checking my sources, one kill was confirmed and two are probables.



Mig-25
Soviet-Iranian border violations (1986-87) (USSR) 0-2-0 ?

Soviets lost a MiG-25BM sometime in 1986 and another on November 11, 1987 after violating Iranian airspace.

[TakeIt]

Megaraptor;4997430']Soviet advisers flying with VPAF. Namely, Vadim Petrovich Shchbakov who is believed to have become an ace in the war. Highly doubtfull.It was forbidden to flew combat sorties. Last name sounds somewhat awkward. The only more or less credible air engagement involving soviet advisor was the shot-down of MiG-21U during training flight by F-4J from VMFA-333, yet still his name remains unknown.


IIRC they were lost in border clashes with Pakistan. Upon re-checking my sources, one kill was confirmed and two are probables. No Soviet MiG-23's were lost in A2A engagement, all to ground fire(2 in 1985, 1 in 1987) or non combat, 10 in total: 1985-5, 1986-1, 1987-2, 1988-1, 1989-1. However one MiG-23MLD N55 received minor damage on 12.09.1988 due to the F-16 attack. Types, that were lost due to the enemy aviation were Su-25(famous A.Rutskoy) and Mi-8(some vague case with lost orientation if i remeber correctly).


Soviets lost a MiG-25BM sometime in 1986 and another on November 11, 1987 after violating Iranian airspace. Out of 40 manufactured 36 MiG-25BM's were in SU AF: 10 in Werneuchen, 10 in Schuchin, 12 in Brzeg, 4 in Voronezh. 2 were lost in Schuchin in 1986: one during landing due to pilot error, another due to malfunction(pilot ejected at 16km height). They had no business in Iran.

[Elbs]

No Soviet MiG-23's were lost in A2A engagement, all to ground fire(2 in 1985, 1 in 1987) or non combat, 10 in total: 1985-5, 1986-1, 1987-2, 1988-1, 1989-1. However one MiG-23MLD N55 received minor damage on 12.09.1988 due to the F-16 attack. Types, that were lost due to the enemy aviation were Su-25(famous A.Rutskoy) and Mi-8(some vague case with lost orientation if i remeber correctly).


A few Su-22s as well.

[TakeIt]

A few Su-22s as well.No, those were ANA Air force losses.

[Brasi]

I can't remember the specific books I read from, but a lot of U.S. pilots believed Soviet and Chinese pilots manned North Vietnamese MIG's, especially during the early years of the air war. Crediting certain Soviet pilots with kills though would be mere speculation.

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Highly doubtfull.It was forbidden to flew combat sorties. Last name sounds somewhat awkward. The only more or less credible air engagement involving soviet advisor was the shot-down of MiG-21U during training flight by F-4J from VMFA-333, yet still his name remains unknown.


http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/tfrussia/tfrhtml/tfr_report18th.html


A. In the course of the Joint Commission meeting in Moscow, members of the U.S. delegation travelled to the previously-restricted Museum of Air Defense Forces on the afternoon of 8 April. Located deep within a closed web of military bases approximately fifty minutes east of Moscow on the south side of the highway to Vladimir, the museum occupies approximately 4,000 square feet on parts of two floors in a combination officer's club and community center. The ground floor is devoted to the period from the Revolution and Civil War through the Russian triumph in WWII. The second floor contains exhibits ranging from Cold War shootdown information (limited) through displays highlighting air defense assistance to "fraternal' nations such as Syria, Egypt and Vietnam, to sports achievements. Of particular note for TFR-M were a series of photographs and an "honor roll" book with the names of officers who had served in allied states such as Korea and Vietnam. TFR-W representatives extracted the following names from the display:
(1) LTC (Retd) Grigoriy Djagarov, who served in Korea from January 1953 to December 1954 as commander of an air defense artillery battery credited with shooting down three F86s. A museum staff member stated that Djagarov is alive and living in Yekaterinburg (Sverdlovsk under the Soviet regime).
(2) MG Yevgeniy Osipovich Rogov may have served in Vietnam.
(3) Col Vadim Petrovich Shchbakov served as a senior lieutenant pilot officer-instructor in Vietnam in 1966. He is credited with 10 air-to-air engagements and six shootdowns. A photograph of him was dated May, 1991.
(4) Col Yuriy Grigorevich Tostov served in Vietnam for December 1973 to December 1974 as a specialist for anti-aircraft missile launchers.
(5) Most, if not all, of the above-named officers were representatives to the All-Army Conference of Military Internationalists, the first session of which occurred on 22 May 1991.

[TakeIt]

I thinks it's either an error or misunderstanding. Considering the amount of information on participation of Soviet specialists in Vietnam no new information on pilots was published.

[Avon]

[WDW]Megaraptor thanx for the information. Concerning the record for the F-16s, there have been multiple clashes between the Greek and Turkish AF over the Aegean Sea. So technically, there have been at least two more confirmed kills against the F-16. True, they were killed by other F-16s!

Two Turkish F-16Cs killed two Greek AF Mirage F.1CGs (on June 18, 1992 and Sept 4, 1993).
One Turkish AF F-16C killed a Greek AF F-16CG (on Nov. 13, 2000).
One Greek AF F-16C killed one Turkish AF F-4E (on Dec 28, 1995).
One Greek Mirage2000EG killed one F-16D with a Magic 2 Missile (on Oct. 8, 1996).
There also have been at least one fractricide incident by the Greek AF involving two F-16s. There are a couple of unconfirmed' kill claims by both Greek and Turkish AFs. There are several incidents/encounters where missiles were fired but no kills were made.


Any details on those entries:
Mig-23
Soviet-Afghan War (USSR) 0-3


No Soviet MiG-23's were lost in A2A engagement

On Sept. 12, 1988 Pakistani AF F-16A pilot Flt.Lt. Khalid Mahmood shot down two Soviet MiG-23MLD Floggers over the Pakistan-Afghanistan (Nawagai area) of the border. These are confirmed kills, wreckage of two fighters was found by the Pakistani Army. Do you know any details of the third MiG-23 lost?
REF;
http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/war/indexafghanwar.html
http://aces.safarikovi.org/victories/victories-pakistan-afg.html

Finally, concerning the kill record of the Su-27, the Eritrean AF has an unconfirmed kill claim by one of their MiG-29B fighters fired a R-27 Alamo Missile and killed an Ethiopian AF Su-27S.

[Strykes]

[WDW]Megaraptor;4994521
Megaraptor;4994521']
F-15A/C/I/S Eagle 102-0-0
Gulf War (USA) 32-0-0
Gulf War (Saudi Arabia) 2-0-0
Northern Watch, Southern Watch, Desert Fox (USA) 2-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 0-0-0
Kosovo (USA) 4-0-0
Afghanistan (USA) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1979-1981 (Israel) 19-0-0
Operation Opera (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 38-0-0
Lebanon War 1982-2000 (Israel) 4-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 0-0-0
Iran Gulf Clash 1984 (Saudi Arabia) 1-0-0

F-15E Strike Eage 1-0-3
Gulf War (USA) 1-0-2
Northern Watch, Southern Watch, Desert Fox (USA) 0-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 0-0-0
Kosovo (USA) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA) 0-0-0
Iraq War (USA) 0-0-1
Lebanon War 1982-2000 (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 0-0-0
Yemen Border Clashes (Saudi Arabia) 0-0-0

F-14 Tomcat 135-4-4
Vietnam (1975) (USA) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (USA) (1980) 2-0-0
Lebanon 1983 (USA) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (1986) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (1989) 2-0-0
Gulf War (USA) 1-0-1
Iraq NFZs (USA) 0-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 0-0-0
Kosovo (USA) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 130-4-4



Isreali F15I's are of F15E background, not standard F15. Their F15's are just A/B/C/D's (Although upgraded).


No mention of F-16 in your observations? While one fighter has been downed in air-to-air combat, its record is still much more impressive than say Su-27.

I may be wrong, but wasn't that one F16 that was shot down, shot down by another F16?

Last but not least, how many aces have been made in modern times (In F15's, F16's and F14's.. Guessing there will be no info on the Iranian aces tho...)?

Strykes.

PS: Thanks for posing all this.

[Avon]

I may be wrong, but wasn't that one F16 that was shot down, shot down by another F16?
A Turkish AF F-16D was shot down by a Greek AF Mirage2000EG with a Magic 2 Missile, on Oct 8, 1996.
Ref;
The F-16D shoot down by the Mirage 2000EG.
http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/3371
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_299.shtml
http://math.fce.vutbr.cz/safarik/ACES/aces1/eritrea-1999-2000.html

[Strykes]

A Turkish AF F-16D was shot down by a Greek AF Mirage2000EG with a Magic 2 Missile, on Oct 8, 1996.
Ref;
The F-16D shoot down by the Mirage 2000EG.

Oh, thanks for the info, always though it was a Greek F16 that shot it down.

Strykes.

[TakeIt]

On Sept. 12, 1988 Pakistani AF F-16A pilot Flt.Lt. Khalid Mahmood shot down two Soviet MiG-23MLD Floggers over the Pakistan-Afghanistan (Nawagai area) of the border. These are confirmed kills, wreckage of two fighters was found by the Pakistani Army. Do you know any details of the third MiG-23 lost? Again - this is erroneus information. No MiG-23s were lost to enemy air attacks. MiG-23MLD N55 piloted by cpt.S.Privalov was damaged in 1988 by F-16. Fotos of the plane and damage are present in book by A.Markovskiy "Fighters MiG-23 in Afghanistan". Wreckages recovered belonged to the two ANA Su-22's.

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Last but not least, how many aces have been made in modern times (In F15's, F16's and F14's.. Guessing there will be no info on the Iranian aces tho...)?

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/aces/aces.htm
http://users.accesscomm.ca/magnusfamily/airaces1.htm

I've not been able to locate a complete list of Iran-Iraq war aces.

F-14 pilot Jalal Zandi was the leading ace of the Iran-Iraq war and the leading Iranian ace, with 9 kills. Oddly enough, Zandi was also one of the few Iranian pilots to be shot down in an F-14. Siavash Hoda was Iran's other known ace, he was an F-4 pilot.

Iranian F-5 pilot Yadollah Javadpour and Iraqi MiG-21/MiG-25 pilot Mohommed "Sky Falcon" Rayyan both claimed ace status, but AFAIK not all of their kills have been confirmed.

There have been no American aces since Vietnam, the closest has been F-16 pilot Robert Gordon Wright who shot down 3 Serb Galeb jets over Bosnia in a single day, F-15C pilot Caesar Antonio Rodriguez who score two kills in Desert Storm and one in Kosovo, and F-15C pilots Robert Hehemann and Thomas Dietz who each scored two kills in Desert Storm and one in Operation Provide Comfort over northern Iraq.

[Abu_Elvis]

Megaraptor;4994521']So I decided to compile some statistics to see what they could tell us about combat statistics of various fighter aircraft currently in use. Let's see what they show:


F-16 Falcon 76-1-5
...
Syrian border clashes 1979-1986 (Israel) 6-0-0
Operation Opera (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 44-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 3-0-0
Intifada (2000-present) (Israel) 0-0-0


F-15A/C/I/S Eagle 102-0-0
..
Syrian border clashes 1979-1981 (Israel) 19-0-0
Operation Opera (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 38-0-0
Lebanon War 1982-2000 (Israel) 4-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 0-0-0
..

I didn't know that Israeli kills on F-16 and F-15 were such a big percentage of the total. Looks like it is the majority, and in the period examined, it seems that '82 Lebanon war is the only proper war. This is a bit surprising... But I guess that if we took the data from 60es and 70es, it would look different, since both Israel and US had major wars then.



6) Su-27 is the only Russian fighter to have a positive kill ratio in combat, but as we all know this is likely due to "monkey model" export fighters, as well as the poor training standards of Arab air forces.
I don't know...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimon_20
Story goes that Soviet advisers were always insulting Egyptian pilots because of their record against the IAF, and after that incident, there were parties in all bars next to Egyptian air force bases. That's the legend... Not sure if it is true.

[Corrupt]

Story goes that Soviet advisers were always insulting Egyptian pilots because of their record against the IAF, and after that incident, there were parties in all bars next to Egyptian air force bases. That's the legend... Not sure if it is true.

They celebrating damaging one mirage for the loss of 5 Mig 21's and 4 dead pilots?

[Alfacentori]

They celebrating damaging one mirage for the loss of 5 Mig 21's and 4 dead pilots?

I think he means that the Egyptians celebrated, due to the criticism and accusations they had received from the Soviet pilots.

Alfa

[Abu_Elvis]

They celebrating damaging one mirage for the loss of 5 Mig 21's and 4 dead pilots?

They were celebrating the fact that soviets did no better then Egyptians.


I think he means that the Egyptians celebrated, due to the criticism and accusations they had received from the Soviet pilots.

Alfa
I think I have heard the claim about the parties in a documentary.

[TheArmenian]

Megaraptor;4994521']
F-14 Tomcat 135-4-4
Vietnam (1975) (USA) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (USA) (1980) 2-0-0
Lebanon 1983 (USA) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (1986) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (1989) 2-0-0
Gulf War (USA) 1-0-1
Iraq NFZs (USA) 0-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 0-0-0
Kosovo (USA) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 130-4-4


Nitpicking mode on.

Check your totals: it should be 135-4-5

By the way the Iranian claims about their F-14's successes are very much inflated, but that is another story...

[TheArmenian]

deleted post (double post)

[TheArmenian]

F-4 Phantom 306-106-545
Vietnam War (US Navy) 40-7-66
Vietnam War (USMC) 3-1-74
Vietnam War (USAF) 108-33-337
Desert Storm (USAF) 0-0-1
NFZs (Turkey) 0-0-0
Soviet border clash 1976 (Iran) 1-0-0
Dhofar War (Iran) 0-0-1
Kurdish rebellion (Iran) 0-0-1
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 68-29-33
Iran Gulf Clash 1984 (Iran) 0-1-0
Kurdish Civil War (Iran) 0-0-1
War of Attrition (Israel) 26-3-5
Yom Kippur War (Israel) 55-28-22
Syrian border clashes 1974-1981 (Israel) 4-3-1
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 1-1-1
Lebanon War 1982-2000 (Israel) 0-0-2



War of Attrition: 6 of the Israeli F-4s shot down were due to SA-3 missiles manned by Soviet crews. Names of the Israeli pilots and Soviet commanders are available.

Yom Kippur War: There is no way the Arabs shot down 28 Israeli F-4s in air-air combat. The acig reports you are going by are incorrect. Total number of Israeli F-4s lost during that war is around 37 (both air-air and ground-air losses).

[TheArmenian]

Mirage F.1 24-43-20
Chadian-Libyan War (France) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (France) 0-0-0
Paquisha War (Ecuador) 0-0-0
Alto-Cenapa War (Equador) 2-0-0
Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 15-35-11?
Gulf War (Iraq) 0-8-0
Gulf War (Kuwait) 3 (possibly 12)-0-0
Western Saharan War (Morocco) 0-0-7
Angola Border War (South Africa) 4-0-2
Aegean Sea clashes (Greece) 0-1-0
A South african Mirage F-1 was hit by a Cuban manned Angolan MiG. The pilot managed to reach his base but crashed and was injured. The aircraft was lost. That should be added to your totals.

[TheArmenian]

MiG-21 240-501-[too little information for an accurate count of losses to ground fire]
Vietnam War (North Vietnam) 78-95-0
Vietnam War (North Korea) 1-0-0
Vietnam War (USSR) 6-0-0
1967 border clashes (Syria) 0-7-0
Six-Day War (Egypt) 5-13-
Six-Day War (Syria) 0-7-
Six-Day War (Iraq) 0-1-
War of Attrition (Syria) 7-56
War of Attrition (USSR) 0-5-0
War of Attrition (Egypt) 18-93
Yom Kippur War (Syria) 30-26
Yom Kippur War (Egypt) 26-65
Yom Kippur War (Iraq) 1-9
Egypt-Libya Border War (Egypt) 6-1
Soviet-Iranian border clashes (USSR) 1-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1974-1981 (Syria) 5-26
Lebanon War 1982 (Syria) 2-38
Turkish border violation 1986 (Syria) 1-0-0
Ogaden War (Somalia) 1-6
Angola Bush War (Angola) 1-3
Congo Civil War (Zaire) 0-0-0
Congo Civil War (Angola) 0-0-1
Uganda-Tanzania War (Uganda) 0-0-1
Uganda-Tanzania War (Tanzania) 0-0-1
Mozambique Civil War (Mozambique) 1-0-0
Sudanese Civil War (Sudan) 0-0-3
Somali Civil War (Somalia) 0-0-0
Ethiopian-Eritrean War (Ethiopia) 0-3
Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 32-40
Gulf War (Iraq) 0-4-0
Indo-Pakistani War 1965 (India) 0-0-
Indo-Pakistani War 1971 (India) 6-1-
Kargil War (India) 0-0-1
Soviet-Afghan War (Afghanistan) 0-4
Atlantique Incident 1999 (India) 1-0-0
Afghan Civil War 1992-1996 (United Front) 4-0-
Afghan Civil War 1992-1996 (Dostum-Gulbuddin Militia) 0-2-
Abkhazian War (Georgia) 0-0-0
Nagorno-Karabakh War (Azerbaijan) 0-0-6
Nagorno-Karabakh War (Armenia) 0-0-1
1986 Cuban border incursion (Cuba) 1-0-0
Slovenian War (Yugoslavia) 0-0-0
Croatian War (Yugoslavia) 1-0-7
Croatian War (Croatia) 0-0-1
Bosnia (Serbia) 0-0-0
Kosovo (Serbia) 1-0-0
Balloon shootdown (Belarus) 1-0-0
1966 US China border violation 1-0-0
1963 US Czech border violation 1-0-0
Korean DMZ (North Korea) 1-0-0
Sa'dah Insurgency (Yemen) 0-0-1

How can we loose an aircraft that we never operated? We did not have any jet fighters during the Nagorno Karabagh war.

[TheArmenian]

MiG-29 6-18-1
Lebanon War 1982-2000 (Syria) 0-2-0
Gulf War (Iraq) 0-5-0
Transnistra War (Moldova, Russia) 0-0-0
Brothers in Rescue incident (Cuba) 2-0-0
Slovenian War (Yugoslavia) 0-0-0
Croatian War (Yugoslavia) 0-0-0
Bosnia (Serbia) 0-0-0
Kosovo (Serbia) 0-6-0
Kargil War (India) 0-0-0
Ethiopian-Eritrean War (Eritrea) 3-5-0
Georgian border violation 2008 (Russia) 1-0-0
Darfur War (Sudan) 0-0-1



On 19.01.2001 a MiG-29 piloted by Jameel Sayhood (9th squadron) shot down an RAF Tornado manned by Lennox/Weeks (15 sqad.). The RAF is still not admiiting that and still saying that the aircraft was lost to ground fire.

[TheArmenian]

I don't know...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimon_20
Story goes that Soviet advisers were always insulting Egyptian pilots because of their record against the IAF, and after that incident, there were parties in all bars next to Egyptian air force bases. That's the legend... Not sure if it is true.

It is not true.

These kind of fantasy stories were popular during the cold war.

[TheArmenian]

Again - this is erroneus information. No MiG-23s were lost to enemy air attacks. MiG-23MLD N55 piloted by cpt.S.Privalov was damaged in 1988 by F-16. Fotos of the plane and damage are present in book by A.Markovskiy "Fighters MiG-23 in Afghanistan". Wreckages recovered belonged to the two ANA Su-22's.

That is correct.

No MiG-23s were shot down by Pakistanis. Only Su-22 and 25.

[TheArmenian]

Regarding the F-15 statistics.

During the Israeli-Syrian clashes over Lebanon, one F-15 was hit by a MiG-21. The aircraft was damaged but made it back to base and was repaired. Of course, it does not count as a shootdown.

[Elbs]

On 19.01.2001 a MiG-29 piloted by Jameel Sayhood (9th squadron) shot down an RAF Tornado manned by Lennox/Weeks (15 sqad.). The RAF is still not admiiting that and still saying that the aircraft was lost to ground fire.

Sounds like a claim without evidence. The RAF stated that ZA467 flew into the ground.

[TakeIt]

If baloon shot-downs are to be included, than in 1956-1977 793 spy baloons were downed by Soviet Air Defence. First baloon was downed in 1954 by MiG-17, last apparently in 1998 by Su-27.

[Corrupt]

Regarding the F-15 statistics.

During the Israeli-Syrian clashes over Lebanon, one F-15 was hit by a MiG-21. The aircraft was damaged but made it back to base and was repaired. Of course, it does not count as a shootdown.


Oooh details?

[Eoin666]

Sea Harrier 21-0-3
Falklands War (UK) 21-0-2


Out of that 21:0 ratio, 3 of the kills included a C-130 Herc (conducting a recce flight),a Canberra, and a Pucara

[Abu_Elvis]

If baloon shot-downs are to be included, than in 1956-1977 793 spy baloons were downed by Soviet Air Defence. First baloon was downed in 1954 by MiG-17, last apparently in 1998 by Su-27.

If we include that, I have read few years back that IAF UAV unit has one shootdown, that some pilot got scared on seeing the UAV and crashed, so it officially counts as a victory. Does anyone have any details?