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Dennis G
08-06-2003, 01:33 AM
I Added some New photos today.








"Gentelemen, you have been selected... not because you are the meanest sons-of-a-bitches in the valley, nor was it for showin' off what a tough guy you are to the gang back on the block... not because you have muscles in your do-do, and not because you have the potential to become some sort of cold-blooded killer who would just as soon blow the eyes out of a baby as step on a bug.

"Your units selected each of you... because you are good Marines - men who are well disciplined... courageous...duty-bound...and loyal to your country and you Corps... in top physical condition, mentally sound and very patient. Each man here... has good moral character and a strong sense of values, among which he holds life sacred.

"When you go on a mission, there is no crowd to applaud you - no one for whom you can flex your muscles or show how tough you are... You have to be strong enough to physically endure lying in the weeds day after day, letting the bugs crawl over you and bite you, letting the sun cook you and the rain boil you, ****ting and pissing in your pants... because you know that Charlie's coming, and you're gonna kill him."
Cpt. E. J. Land,
co-founder 1st Marine Division Scout/Sniper School



http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/AussieSniper.jpg

SNIPER
You watch you wait, you take a breath, Steady your gun, You take aim, Your heart stops, You squeeze the trigger, One shot One kill.
Bill P. 2,23,02

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/sspic.jpg

"I was that which others did not want to be. I went where others feared to go, and did what others failed to do. I asked nothing from those who gave nothing and reluctantly accepted the thought of eternal loneliness should I fail. I have seen the face of terror, felt the stinging cold of fear, and enjoyed the sweet taste of a moments love. But most of all I have lived times others would say were best forgotten. At least some day I will be able to say, I was proud of what I was and always will be............... A United States Marine Scout/Sniper"

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/patrol.jpg

"....consider that Marine Scout/Snipers are required to do the same thing at almost twice the distance (hitting a target at over a quarter mile away), with only one shot and no chance to make adjustments. All this on a mission that may last for days, in any weather, against an enemy trying to kill you like a pesky varmint. It is a bizarre way to make a living, and the men who do it are strange birds. But to an enemy, the M40A1 in the hands of a skilled Marine Scout/Sniper is a hellish weapon, more feared than even a bomber loaded with napalm! It is scary to know that you might be hunted by another man; and this makes it tough to do your job. The overwhelming psychological impact of the sniper helps to explain why the Corps invests so much in maintaining this capability."
Tom Clancy
Author"

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/images/sniper%20logos/snipatch1.gifhttp://www.marinescoutsniper.com/rmsnipqual.gif

"Sniping is a mysterious art most people ignore because, as Jack Nicholson said in the movie, "they can't handle the truth." But the truth lies in the crosshairs. Snipers are a breed apart. They possess a primordial stalking and killing instinct, one couched in a true loner's diposition. They are the solitary killers of Man's oldest and most intense obsession -- war. It is the sniper team that strikes out alone, depending only on itself, employing its imagination and hard-earned skills to the ominous task of taking out key individual targets in a sea of enemy troops. Snipers observe war from afar through their binos, studying it on their maps, sneaking around it on the fringes, penetrating it silently along a straight-razor; only when ready, do they selectively participate, striking without warning, dumping their unaware prey in the dirt with pinpoint precision, disappearing without a trace. They are as close as good guys can get to being half human, half animal. For all these reasons and more, I am one. Happy shooting".
"Major M. 6/23/98"

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/sniperteam.jpg

Scout/Snipers are unique as a specialty among the world's armed forces. They serve as a combination of things - as a scout, and, within that function, as a sniper. In effect, they find where the enemy are, and then, ideally, kill off the most important of the enemy's soldiers, their leaders, before slipping (hopefully) away. The training is difficult, and the psychological makeup of these troops is hard to comprehend - although the infantryman's job is killing, Scout/Snipers seek and destroy individuals, personally. It takes a very unique personality to survive the job, both tactically and emotionally.

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/images/snipers/ww2snipers.jpg

If I were King, I'd close Army entry training and send all future Infantry grunts to the Marines. The Corps still produces trained and disciplined soldiers who know how to make it on a killing field.
--Col. Hackworth, WND 11Nov98

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/sniper1.jpghttp://www.marinescoutsniper.com/sniper2.jpg

US Marines are the most peculiar breed of human beings I have ever witnessed. They treat service as if it was some kind of cult, plastering their emblem on almost everything they own, making themselves look like insane fanatics with haircuts to ungentlemanly lengths, worshipping their Commandant almost as if he was a god, and making wierd animal noises like a gang of savages. They'll fight like rabid dogs at the drop of a hat just for the sake of a little action, and are the cockiest sons of bitches I have ever known. Most have the foulest mouths and drink well beyond man's normal limits, but their high spirits and sense of brotherhood set them apart and, generally speaking, the United States Marines I've come in contact with are the most professional soldiers and the finest men and women I have ever had the pleasure to meet...

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/snip1.jpg

"man or woman, young or old, my sights are steady, and my trigger cold. walk
or run, laugh or cry your in my A.O., now you die!"

The Silent Sniper
By G.A.Codling

A Sniper crawls along a forest floor
A match grade barrel to do his chore
Blending with the woodland scene
He leaves no trace of where he's been

A single task occupies his mind
To the outside world he is blind
One single task, one single goal
Only his mission occupies his soul

He moves into the open grass
The enemy patrol makes a searching pass
although they look, they can not see
the man moving out from a distant tree

One hour, two , three then four
He only moves a few feet more
Zero hour is getting near
He knows his target will soon appear

A single man he has been sent to kill
and on his hands this man's blood will spill
The moment is now, the target's in site
Taking up the first pressure the shoot feels right

One ounce more on the trigger sear
The bullet races away like a high speed spear
It races throw the air with a thunderous crack
There's a fountain of blood as it exits the man's back

The silence is deafening theirs not a single sound
as the shooter removes the case of the single spent round
His task now done he fades back in to the wood
His only trace is a body wear a man once stood.

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/images/weapons/m40d.jpg

While invisible, I see and destroy.

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/images/weapons/win70.jpg

The sniper is a "work in progress" as are all true professionals in the art of warfare. He is an artist of the highest order in this most demanding of arts. Constantly honing his edge and perfecting his skills to the point of obsession. His profession demands a dedication to excellence that few others ever even consider...some say he is obsessive..almost cultish. Sniping IS a cult, it's a lifestyle, it's our religion. We are what few other people in the world would want to be, and even fewer are capable of. We live in a world of macho ideals and chauvanistic brotherhood. Outsiders are not welcome and those who betray our way of life become outcast. A hard life of extraordinarily high expectations with no allowance or tolerance for failure. Like the wolfpack, snipers are a tight community with a strict pecking order, the pack mentality prevails. It's what keeps us sharp, the knowledge that if we show weakness or incompetence we will suffer the worst fate possible by unwritten but universally understood "pack law." Shame. To shame or dishonor yourself in front of a brother sniper is to suffer vocal ridicule, or much worse...silent rebuke. To lose the respect of your brothers is damnation. That is why we are the best at what we do. Why we will sit for days at a time in the most punishing cold, the sweltering heat, or the pounding rain, fighting the elements and our own fatigue and biting hunger...to take that one shot...the shot that might save the life of one of our brothers. And despite the impossible conditions and handicaps placed on us by circumstance, we WILL put the target down....because that is what we do. That is who we are. Marine Scout Snipers

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/snipers1.jpg

Something wicked this way comes. His approach in neither seen nor heard, his way is the path less travelled, and lonely is his life. Mention of his name runs a chill through the enemy, they fear merely falling under his watchful eye, for when they do their life is in check, pawn to an invisible foe. He may hunt and stalk his prey for days, in stifling heat or the bitterest cold, his goal in life is the end of another, and he doesn't accept failure. He has been called many things by many people, a lone wolf, long rifle, snake, assassin,... and many names less complimentary, but to those who learn to love and respect him, simply Scout Sniper.

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/images/weapons/m40a1bw.jpg

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/swiss.jpg

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/images/weapons/m14ian.gif


****: Through the eyes of the Military

*An Army grunt stands in the rain with a 35 pound pack on his back, 15 lb. weapon in hand, after having marched 12 miles, and says, "This is ****!"

*An Army Airborne Ranger stands in the rain with a 45 lb. pack on his back, weapon in hand, after having jumped from an airplane and marched 18 miles, and says with a smile, "This is good ****!"

*A Navy SEAL lies in the mud, 55 LB pack on his back, weapon in hand, after swimming 10 miles to shore, crawling through a swamp and marching 25 miles at night past the enemy positions, says with a grin, "This really is great ****."

*A Marine Scout/Sniper, up to his nose in the stinking, bug-infested mud of a swamp with a 65 LB pack on his back and a weapon in both hands after jumping from an aircraft at high altitude, into the ocean, swimming 12 miles to the shore, killing several alligators to enter the swamp, then stalking 30 miles through the brush to an FFP, says, "I love this ****."

*The Air Force NCO sits in an easy chair in an air conditioned, carpeted office and says, "My e-mail's out? What kind of **** is this?"

koster
08-06-2003, 02:29 AM
Man, this is good.
I especially like the quotes, lol

Dennis G
08-06-2003, 05:30 PM
thanks Koster

If anyone has anyother good information (training) or photos of
Marine Scout/Snipers or Marine Force Recon pls post that would be cool

Dennis

California Joe
08-06-2003, 07:47 PM
Looks like a school project from Columbine High School.

Just curious, when did the Marines start using SS camo smocks and 8mm Mausers?

Oh yeah, when they fought the Russians on the Eastern Front. My bad.

ScoutRanger
08-06-2003, 08:13 PM
Looks like a school project from Columbine High School.

Just curious, when did the Marines start using SS camo smocks and 8mm Mausers?

Oh yeah, when they fought the Russians on the Eastern Front. My bad.


Scout/Snipers are unique as a specialty among the world's armed forces.

Read above the picture and you'll realize its talking about scout snipers in general mate.

California Joe
08-06-2003, 08:18 PM
I still don't think David Hackworth wants his quotes appearing next to SS snipers.

Do all militaries designate their snipers as "Scout/Snipers" I thought that was a US Marine thing. Could be wrong, I'm not one and don't play a lot of PS2 games or anything. Plus the whole "Marine" Scout sniper title threw me off.

Oh yeah, some of the pics are also British, just sayin....

digrar
08-07-2003, 01:22 AM
Some Australian pictures as well.
Most Australian recon and sniper blokes are scout/tracking qualified but Australian snipers are just called snipers.

James
08-07-2003, 01:34 AM
Dennis,

www.forcerecon.org

martinexsquaddie
08-07-2003, 02:18 AM
Damm I'd thought I won the competition to out weird non snipers against my mate by my shrine to Jodie foster :roll: . But bad scary poetry has me beat :lol:.
er that soldiers talking to his gun
ITS NOT A GUN ITS A RIFLE and her names Jessica

Ngati Tumatauenga
08-07-2003, 02:55 AM
It's just a montage? on sniping.The site it comes from is predominantly geared towards scout snipers. But I think the montage? is about sniping in general.
Most armys that employ snipers use them as scouts/observers in a secondary role. In our army too most snipers are visual tracker qualified.
I despise fascism in general and Nazism in particular but I've still studied German snipers in WW2 to a great extent, amongst others, and will continue to do so.
Why?, because you can learn things from anyone, regardless of whether you like,respect or even agree with them or not.
Only a fool discounts relevant and useful information because of personal prejudices.

ScoutRanger
08-07-2003, 03:20 AM
David Hackworth is a moron regardless oh what on his chest.

Is it just me or does he always wear the same damn black suit everytime to goes on the news?

koster
08-07-2003, 03:57 AM
hmm, didn't he died, like 8 years ago, or something?
or was that another guy?

Duke
08-07-2003, 05:13 PM
David Hackworth is a moron regardless oh what on his chest....
COL Hack is probably still America's most decorated VET. During the Viet Nam war he developed a counterguerilla tactic still employed to this day, known as the "Checkboard Patrol". He also had the balls to chastize the war's managers as inept. In turn, the managers forced him to fill out his separation forms. Since then he has become more like an expose journalist, trying to improve the US military by detailing its weaknesses.

Piccolo
08-07-2003, 08:50 PM
COL Hack is probably still America's most decorated VET. During the Viet Nam war he developed a counterguerilla tactic still employed to this day, known as the "Checkboard Patrol". He also had the balls to chastize the war's managers as inept. In turn, the managers forced him to fill out his separation forms. Since then he has become more like an expose journalist, trying to improve the US military by detailing its weaknesses.

I'm not here to take anything away from the man, he has earned his title and medals with experience. However, that gives no man the right to do what he did regarding the 1993 Somalia mission. He openly lied about facts on the battle, as well as publicly critisized Michael Durant; a very childish act in itself. I don't think very highly of the man for these things, and many feel he is quite out of touch with reality.

Duke
08-07-2003, 09:27 PM
COL Hack's decorations

Distinguished Service Cross (with one Oak Leaf Cluster)
Silver Star (with nine Oak Leaf Clusters)
Legion of Merit (with three Oak Leaf Clusters)
Distinguished Flying Cross
Bronze Star Medal (with "V" Device & seven Oak Leaf Clusters)(Seven of the awards for heroism)
Purple Heart (with seven Oak Leaf Clusters)
Air Medal (with "V" Device & Numeral 34)(One for heroism and 33 for aerial achievement)
Army Commendation Medal (w/ "V" Device & 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)

A real man has the right to say what he wants as long as its intelligent and constructive. That is why so many still read Hack's columns and seek his views.


DEFENDING AMERICA
David H. Hackworth
January 17, 1995

STOP INSULTING THE HEROS WHO STOOD TALL

U.S. Army pilot Bobby Hall "became disoriented," flew into North Korea, was shot down, and out of "fear" spilled his guts to his Communist jailers. After such disgraceful behavior, Hall returned home to all the trappings once given to real American heroes.

Things have changed since Nathan Hale told his British captors in 1776, "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country."

During the Korean War, many American POWs ratted on and stole the food of their fellow inmates or allowed themselves to be used for propaganda purposes. In 1955, to stop such despicable acts and to teach our warriors -- if taken prisoner -- to stand together for the common good, the Code of Conduct was created. Since then, every member of our armed forces has been trained in the expected standards of conduct governing behavior as a POW.

In my infantry battle group in the early 1960s, our combat savvy, Texas-tough colonel, Glover S. Johns, had us chant the Code at reveille. I can still shout it out as I can my serial number, beginning with Article I: "I am an American fighting man. I serve in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

Having the rules drilled in so well worked. Had we tangled with the Soviets, I doubt if anyone in the 18th Infantry wouldn't have spit in the face of the Russkies if captured. Johns knew from his experience in WWII and the Korean War the damage defectors do to a country at war.

Except in survival training for most USAF/USN pilots and special troops, the Code has been neglected and watered down over the years to take into account the pressures to make propaganda statements POWs frequently face. It's also been made politically correct. For example, Article I has had the "fighting man" bit eliminated to make room for women in combat. It now reads, "I am an American fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life."

And Article V, the one Hall violated, has been softened: "When questioned, should I become a prisoner, I am bound to give my name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statement disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause." "Bound" has been replaced by "required," making caving in more acceptable.

Now guys like Hall, who before he was released by the Reds signed a statement saying he had committed an "intolerable crime" when his helicopter "illegally intruded" into North Korean air space, and Michael Durant, Army Chief Warrant Officer, who conveniently forgot the Code when captured in 1993 in Somalia, can say just about any damn thing and still come home to yellow ribbons, a hero's welcome, medals and congratulatory calls from the President.

The Code's adulteration and neglect insults all those who have stood tall, such as Medal of Honor winner naval pilot (and eventual Vice Adm.) Jim Stockdale, who bashed his face into a concrete wall so the Hanoi thugs couldn't use his mug on the tube to sell their propaganda. Nathan Hale and Colonel Johns must be spinning in their graves, and all those brave pilots who told Ho Chi Minh to get stuffed must be asking: Why have a Code if it's not enforced?

Hall, Durant and Navy Lt. Jeffrey Zaun, who, shot down during Desert Storm, became in effect an Iraqi press agent as soon as he was threatened by Saddam's guards, are all guilty of violating the Code. But so is the Pentagon brass for letting it become diluted and neglected.

USAF Lt. Col. Alan Lurie, after being released by Hanoi in 1972, said the Code gave him and his fellow tortured POW airmen the will to resist the "North Vietnamese attempts to exploit us."

But the conduct of Hall, Durant, Zaun and other POWs since Vietnam proves the Code has become more about lip-service than standing proud. It must be reaffirmed and reinforced, from corporal to chairman, or we can expect a rerun of the Korean War disgrace somewhere down the bloody track.

gaz
08-07-2003, 10:00 PM
Colonel Hackworth was a remarkable soldier, that cannot be disputed, however, as I understand it, he's also something of a hypocrite.

Seven or eight years ago Hackworth led the charge against an Admiral by the name of Boorda. It seemed the Admiral was wearing some decorations he had not earned although he claimed he thought he was entitled to them. Hackworth essentially said that was no excuse and called him all sorts of names in the press. Admiral Boorda eventually committed suicide over it.

Not long after it turned out Colonel Hackworth was wearing a Ranger tab and a second Distinguished Flying Cross - neither of which he had earned.

Hackworths explanation - I thought I was entitled to them, it's the Army's fault, not mine.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/16/hackworth/

Duke
08-07-2003, 10:16 PM
Colonel Hackworth was a remarkable soldier, that cannot be disputed, however, as I understand it, he's also something of a hypocrite.

Seven or eight years ago Hackworth led the charge against an Admiral by the name of Boorda. It seemed the Admiral was wearing some decorations he had not earned although he claimed he thought he was entitled to them. Hackworth essentially said that was no excuse and called him all sorts of names in the press. Admiral Boorda eventually committed suicide over it.

Not long after it turned out Colonel Hackworth was wearing a Ranger tab and a second Distinguished Flying Cross - neither of which he had earned.

Hackworths explanation - I thought I was entitled to them, it's the Army's fault, not mine.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/16/hackworth/
Let me clear something up. ADM Borda wore COMBAT devices on his ribbons. Combat devices are for COMBAT veterans. Unfortunately, ADM wasn't one of them, and shot himself through the stomach with a 12 gauge. (Recently, the navy posthumously awarded a V to the ADM. Hack has seen plenty of combat.
Also, its easy to load the **** on a person, how about studying his counterguerilla tactics.
Lastly, he was the only officer in the entire VietNam War to offer an alternate plan of attack on the Communist Forces in VN.

Piccolo
08-07-2003, 10:53 PM
Let me clear something up. ADM Borda wore COMBAT devices on his ribbons. Combat devices are for COMBAT veterans. Unfortunately, ADM wasn't one of them, and shot himself through the stomach with a 12 gauge. (Recently, the navy posthumously awarded a V to the ADM. Hack has seen plenty of combat.
Also, its easy to load the **** on a person, how about studying his counterguerilla tactics.
Lastly, he was the only officer in the entire VietNam War to offer an alternate plan of attack on the Communist Forces in VN.

I don't think slander and lies by many accounts can (Or, should) simply be wiped clean from someones record just because they invented something that is still being used. And, I don't think anything he said about Durant was the least bit intelligent or contructive, for that matter. Veteran or not, the guy has done and said some down-right cowardly things, IMO. To be truthfull, just thinking about him and some of his comments pisses me off. He is a ****ing armchair warrior, now.

It's interesting to note that this "Real man" turned down offers from Michael Durant himself to speak on these issues face to face. Apparently, Mr. Hackworth didn't have enough time to do attend such a meeting. Of course, one would assume you would be pressed for time too, if one spent a good chunk of their's demeaning others.

I'm not going to debate this entire thing, for one, because I am not a soldier, but, simply put, many people realize that the Code Of Conduct is not enough. This is exactly the reason Nick Rowe started SERE; which Durant attended in '88. To say, or imply he undermined his Country, or Service while in captivity is quite erroneous.



Just my thoughts on that.. this is not a flame towards you, Duke.


Btw, this is for our friend Mr. Hackworth.


It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is
marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and
comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error
or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great
devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the
worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place
shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory
nor defeat. -T. Roosevelt

Royal
08-08-2003, 08:13 AM
Do all militaries designate their snipers as "Scout/Snipers" I thought that was a US Marine thing. Could be wrong, I'm not one and don't play a lot of PS2 games or anything. Plus the whole "Marine" Scout sniper title threw me off.

Oh yeah, some of the pics are also British, just sayin....

In the British Army there are three grades; Sharpshooter, Sniper and Master Sniper (a sniper instructor/senior sniper in a unit). In the Royal Marines Sharpshooter/Sniper is a qualification not a trade. All snipers are scouts by dint of their training, but not all scouts are snipers.

The sharpshooter doctrine in the UK is a relatively new re-introduction, based on the French idea of platoon level marksmen. There are two ways of qualifying - as a preliminary course prior to a sniper cadre or as a 'partial pass' on a sniper cadre. UK Sharpshhoters operate at Platoon/Troop level (and are a Company asset rather than a Battle Group asset) and now use a .338 version of the Accuracy International AW.

BTW the only Brit element in the montage is the British Army sniper qualification badge. The other 'Brits' are Aussies.

Jooglae
08-08-2003, 08:22 AM
Excellent drawings, but I don't think the 6th photo, with the two Waffen SS men armed with Mauser rifle and a Schmeisser, doesn't exactly belong to the 'marine sniper' section......

Fargin
08-08-2003, 10:34 AM
They are significant part of sniping history.
http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/bilder/prickskyttar.jpg
http://www.snipersparadise.com/History/german.htm
http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/heer-snipers-normandy.htm

Trigger
08-08-2003, 02:50 PM
Duke I have the utmost respect for you and your opinions, and this is not a flame, but I didn't notice a POW medal listed under Hack's awards. It's nice that he can still recite the code and his serial number but unless I misread something, he's never been a POW and I think he might sing a different tune if he ever became one. I am by no means an expert but I think playing the 'gray man' as described by Andy McNab and others is a much better tactic. The reason I say this is the Vietnam POW experience in general has pretty much proven that if you're captured, you are more likely to be written off by your government. However, if you resist for a while, then appear to cave, the captors will use you for propoganda, but at least PEOPLE WILL KNOW YOU ARE BEING HELD, and you may actually make it home.
...Just my two pesos.

California Joe
08-08-2003, 05:02 PM
Royal, I said Brits because of the rifle in the picture. Thought I recognized it as one you employ. I'm not a sniper, I just play one on TV.

From what I've read the British had to become good snipers because of the Germans in WWI when they started to notice an alarming number of headshot casualties in the trenches.

Duke
08-08-2003, 05:14 PM
Heeeey Joe,
For the Marines, not all long shooters are given the title scout/sniper or even sniper. S/S is a MOS, not to be confused with anyother job title. So, long shooters in the Marines who are not MOS certified S/S are categorized as DM or Designated Marksman. MPs/SRT and FAST use this term instead of sniper.

California Joe
08-08-2003, 08:33 PM
I KNOW Duke, Jeeeeeeeeeeeez. I have allllllllll those Peter Senich books and I know who Gunny Hathcock is and all. Gawd.

*kicking dirt*

MarineSniper8541
08-10-2003, 03:09 AM
German snipers are reckognized as having contributed more to modern sniping than any other collective military unit. Any real sniper worth his salt knows this. In every sniper school in the US military you will find at least one picture somewhere or a film that is shown to students about German snipers and the ideas they came up with and how they trained.

If you look at the photo of the sniper and his spotter in the small green pine saplings, you will see that the sniper has his scope objective lens covered with tape that is only exposing a small slit viewable from down range. This is very functional and works very very well.
Guess what, the Germans came up with the idea. As you can see...it is still in use over 50 years later.

What the author of this post is doing is giving credit where credit is due.
You dont have to respect the ideals they faught for or who they were, but you do have to respect what they did for modern sniping.

thatguy
08-10-2003, 02:34 PM
Heeeey Joe,
For the Marines, not all long shooters are given the title scout/sniper or even sniper. S/S is a MOS, not to be confused with anyother job title. So, long shooters in the Marines who are not MOS certified S/S are categorized as DM or Designated Marksman. MPs/SRT and FAST use this term instead of sniper.

Duke:

Seems like you have a great deal of experience/familiarity with Marine units, as well as SOF. Mind sharing your background?

Desert-Fox
08-10-2003, 03:25 PM
Germans learned how to effectively employ snipers from the russians
back in 41-42
germans werent actually the ones who showed the world the effectiveness og snipers! they learned from the russians and improved it
then americans invaded Germany and thought that the germans had come up with these tactics all by themselves.

Pakrat
08-10-2003, 03:52 PM
Just so you know (and u might already),the british are the ones to credit.In WW 1,the brits were having trouble with german snipers.The answer,scottish game wardens and their ghillie suits.This is where the suit originates from and most tactics.The germans were very good at copying and improving ideas,so they too deserve to be mentioned.The russians threw so many people into the sniper program,who in turn had hardly any training(if any).The ones who survived became very good,experience is the better teacher.

Dennis G
09-22-2003, 06:44 PM
Just thought I would add some new photos to this old post

Not all of them are Snipers

If any of you have anyother photos of Army/Marine or U.S. Law Enforcement Snipers PLS post.

Anyone here from England can you tell me something about your cops (like do they have SWAT, Snipers and what kind of weapons they use.


http://www.snipershide.com/sniping/images/ghillie2.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/sniping/images/ghillie1.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/koreawpaul.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/desertlowlight1.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/lowlightrapel.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/svd1_copy.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/snipercar.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/ZSU23-2_Praying_Mantis_88_copy.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/swat100.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/swat101.gif

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/swatsniper.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/TacTeam.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/sniper001.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/sniper002.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/sniper003.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/RuSniper.gif

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/trap.gif

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/kiss1.jpg
Found this on same site. she looks like she has a good body. was going to post in hot women in the military post but i dont think she military.

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/sniperkneeling.jpg

http://www.snipershide.com/photoshoot/images/sniperteam.jpg

Luxembourger
09-22-2003, 07:37 PM
HEY cool one picture from above shows the Sniper Team plastic model Kit 1/35 from Dragon models.
I am just about to assemble that one for my OIF plastic model diorama

cool pic

soldierandy
10-10-2003, 03:34 PM
Here in the UK the firearms section of the police is called SO19 and they have snipers with the Parker-Hale M85 rifle.

Dennis G
10-12-2003, 01:16 AM
Just did some surfing and looked some info on SO19 and the Park-Hale M-85 looks like a good rifle.

http://www.imt.net/~mele/images/phale-85.jpg


Caliber: 7.62mm NATO (.308 Win)
Magazine: 10 shot detachable
Barrel Length: 24.5"
Weight (with scope): 12.57 lbs.
Overall Length: 45.3"
Stock: McMillan fiberglass (several color patterns available)
Sights: Post front adjustable for windage, fold down rear adjustable for elevation
Features: Quick-detachable bipod, palm stop with rail, sling swivels, and matte finish.

The Model 85 is a first-rate sniper rifle, capable of precesion fire to ranges of 900 meters. The synthetic stock is manufactured in different colors, according to preference, and is fitted with butt spacers to adjust overall length. A detachable bi-pod is standard, and is one of the finest ever put on a rifle! The M85 has been taken into the British Army to supplement the L96A1.
The Model 85 has guranteed first round hit capability up to 600 meters, and 85 percent first round hit capabilities from 600 - 900 meters. The weapon also has a silent safety catch, a threaded muzzle for flash suppressor, and an integral dovetail mount that accepts a variety of sights. The satandard scope is a 6x42mm Schmidt & Bender with a BDC from 200 - 900 meters. Emergency iron sights are also fitted.

This is by far my favorite rifle ever manufactured. In my humble opinion, this rifle has the perfect combination of great looks, excellent accuracy, superb functionality and a stellar service record. Parker-Hale quit making this rifle, and for a while had gotten out of the rifle making business altogether, and Gibbs Rifle Co. (Who had recieved the Parker Hale M85 manufacturing license) also ceased producing this outstanding sniper rifle. Currently, Sabre Defense Industries in the U.K. are starting up production of the M85 once again. They purchased all of the tooling from Parker Hale when they ceased producing rifles. I am scheduled to receive one of these new M85's when they become available in the USA.



Very good site on SO19

http://www.met.police.uk/so19/so19_intro.htm

http://www.met.police.uk/so19/so19images/traini4.gif

http://www.met.police.uk/so19/so19images/traini8.gif

http://www.met.police.uk/so19/so19images/armed_2.gif

11F5S
10-12-2003, 06:43 AM
David Hackworth is a moron regardless oh what on his chest....
COL Hack is probably still America's most decorated VET. During the Viet Nam war he developed a counterguerilla tactic still employed to this day, known as the "Checkboard Patrol". He also had the balls to chastize the war's managers as inept. In turn, the managers forced him to fill out his separation forms. Since then he has become more like an expose journalist, trying to improve the US military by detailing its weaknesses.

Most Decorated....Let me introduce you to Col Robert L Howard.

http://members.cox.net/rlhtribute/biographical_information.htm

http://members.cox.net/rlhtribute/

http://www.mysa.com/mysanantonio/extras/vietnam/viet7.shtml

Teemu803
10-12-2003, 10:26 PM
And always when you guys talk about snipers and their history you should start this guy http://www.snipercountry.com/sniphistory.htm#SimoHayha

That is quite sniper, because he usually used his sniping rifle without binocular, try do same :)

MolliG
10-13-2003, 04:50 AM
SO19 are the Met's 'SWAT' team :). Weapons used vary from Police Force to Police Force, but they have to meet ammo specifications etc set by the Home Office. 'Normal' Police Officers don't carry firearms (except in special circumstances) whilst doing their 'beat', but most Forces have ARVs (Armed Responce Vehicles, 2 Officers armed with Pistols and at least one Carbine/SMG, they deal with incidents were Firearms have been spotted (I.E chasing a suspected armed thief). They can be spotted cruising around in their big Omega estates ;).). Most Forces also have a team equivelent to the Met's SO19, to deal with dangerous arrests, hostage situations etc... Yes the Police don't need the SAS to deal with those situations anymore ;).

Thats the 'basics', someone else can probaly go into more detail, and probaly correct me on some things :).

:D

Sorry about my bad grammar... I'm in a rush!