PFC Lynch Bronze Star Citation

[MSG Dman]

Here is the Bronze Star citation for PFC Lynch. After reading the citation, do members of this discussion group think it fits the act? I already have formed my own opinion, but am curious to how others view this. Please respond with comments.

PFC LYNCH BSM CITATION


“For exemplary courage under fire during combat operations to liberate Iraq, in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Private First Class Lynch’s bravery and heart persevered while surviving in the ambush and captivity in An Nasiriya. Private First Class Lynch’s belief in the Battalion’s motto “One Team, One Fight” is in keeping with the finest traditions of military service. Her honor, courage and dedication reflect great credit upon herself, 507th Maintenance Company, 3d Infantry Division, Victory Corps, and The United States Army From Mar 23 03 to 2 Apr 03, signed Apr 03 by Lt. Gen. William S. Wallace Commanding and Thomas E. White, Sec. of Army.”

[Argyll]

Pure and Utter BS!!!!!
And the rest of the 507th that were caught in that ambush must be gutted,unless they ALL recieved the same medal.............I feel sorry for her,she's been made out to be a hero,and by all accounts she was trying to flee the scene!
There are literally 1000's out there who actually shot back,who get zip!!
I always thought the administation would "Hype "this one up!!....pretty sad really

[Vance]

Miller got the Silver Star and all the rest that survived got Bronze, I beileve.

[ScoutRanger]

Congrats to her.

[California Joe]

She got in a car accident.

Through no fault of her own, I repeat, THROUGH NO FAULT OF HER OWN, she has become everything from a *** symbol to a feminist icon to this conflict's SGT York. She should be left alone to heal in peace.

The entire incident is a cluster **** and the PR people at the Pentagon as well as the sycophantic media should all be ashamed of themselves.

[Vance]

Eh? *** symbol?

[California Joe]

Yep, I saw a report talking about offers to pose for mags when she is healed.

[Argyll]

So Millers actions were just as heroic as the SOF Sgt mentioned in a previous post? Kind of underminds the value of the award then don't you think?
Pardon me for being cynical here,but I'll need to remember the next time I read a citation stating "courage under fire",is now the technical term for legging it!!
If she was in the British Army,she'd be lucky to get an MID(Mentioned in Despatches)

From another topic,the Ranger team who went back for P.O. Roberts(RIP),all deserved Awards,as did the Nightstalker Pilotes who flew them in,maybe they did get something,I don'r know,but that IS Bravery and Heroism,and courage under fire!!!!

[ScoutRanger]

ever wonder where the phrase "silent hero's" comes from?

[Vance]

Yep, I saw a report talking about offers to pose for mags when she is healed.
Wow, how sexy.

''Look I have this big scar on my leg where I BROKE IT.''

[California Joe]

Mentioned in Dispatches indeed.

Say what you want about the British army but they have ****ing style.

[...]

So what most of you are basically saying is the Army should hold a PFC in a non-combat MOS to the same standards as an NCO in special operations?

[California Joe]

That's what I'm saying. Those medals are not transitory in nature, they are not politically correct. They are based on absolutes. You want glory? Don't become a cook or a truck driver or a clerk. If you find yourself under fire like in the Battle of the Bulge, as an example, and you perform heroic feats for a "soldier" not for a "clerk" you deserve all the medals bestowed.

Have you ever read history? Do you know what "mentioned in dispatches" means? Christ, most of the men at Roarkes Drift didn't even get THAT!

[California Joe]

You're right of course. Medals shouldn't be given for political reasons but they often are. Heh, and you're also right about the medal recipients I know not really caring.

[Apogee]

I hate to open this can of worms up again, but I think this shows the Army's lack of focus in non-Combat Arms units on basic soldier skills (ie SPORTS, react to contact). I mean if the 503rd had spent more time on training these areas maybe the situation would have turned out differently. Of course then efficiency in their primary role would have suffered. I'm just babbling. My .02$

[martinexsquaddie]

Yes its not like theres ever going to be a frontline you can hide behind anymore Unlikely to any sort of safe rear echelon either.
An unconfentional force is going to be after safe targets. Forget delta/seals with the cool sunglasses lets try and kill some of the blanket stackers they probably been ordered not to clean there rifles :D

[ScoutRanger]

Welcome to the world of "its not your f***en say." Shake the little girls hand and walk back to your desk job or Harry Potter books.

[steel bonnet]

l think the whole fiasco with the PFC Lynch is just a great big media/DoD Publicity stunt.
This is all due to the fact that Lynch is a female. Maybe this case stresses the point of Less Females in a Combat Zone,moreso if the DoD & Media are going to play them as heroes for STUPID MISTAKES.

You think how man folks have died or been injured. What they did to recieve there awards.

Nobdy should be awarded a medal for getting lost & captured

Ja
Steel Bonnet

[SABER 2-3]

I cannot see the justification in this one. PFC Lynch and the other soldiers who were lucky enough to survive the ambush, offered little resistance and did surrender thus becoming wide-eyed POWs who answered the enemies questions on film have been awarded the same award as .

MSG. Paul Howe, who was a SFOD-D Team leader WHO made coordinated movement to contact w/ enemy forces. WHO as ordered, secured enemy leadership. WHO was part of a TF that was engaged by a much larger (overwhelming) enemy force, issued muti-running FRAGOS, engaged key enemy weapon systems w/sucsess and was able to ensure that all US troops envolved (coordinated the extraction of CWO3 Woolcots body from crash site) WHO continued operations, some alone to rescue the only POW/MIA of the above action.

MSG. HOWE was awarded a Bronze Star for his actions...
How do PFC. LYNCHs actions warrant a combat medal for Valor.
It must be more about the perception and politics.

[Chris1]

I say, good for her.
I hope she gets book deals
I hope she gets movie rights because at the end of the day lads, she's a lame limping soldier that the Army is going to keep on just long enough for the media to forget about her.

[Royal]

Nobdy should be awarded a medal for getting lost & captured

Sgt 'A McNabb' DCM, MM SAS ???


I hate to open this can of worms up again, but I think this shows the Army's lack of focus in non-Combat Arms units on basic soldier skills (ie SPORTS, react to contact). I mean if the 503rd had spent more time on training these areas maybe the situation would have turned out differently. Of course then efficiency in their primary role would have suffered. I'm just babbling. My .02$

I'm still amazed that the US Army does not treat all 'soldiers' as soldiers in the same way as the USMC and to be fair to them, the British Army. The British creed (if you can call it that) is that "any member of the army is a soldier first, and cook, mechinic, pilot or whatever second". While this is less than perfect, at least it's a start and reduces the 'civvies in uniform' mentality to a minimum.

[Scrim]

Civies in uniform indeed, I wish you could see the TV recruiting commercials in the US Royal, you would think you dont even have to wear a uniform. Its only about money for college and learning a civilian trade.

[Chops]

ShooterB

Drop me a PM mate?

rgds

Chops

[steel bonnet]

Royal,
l am well aware that McNab got a medals for B20.
My opinion of him even though he is Ex SAS is mixed,in that he & Ryan used a fallen comrade as an Escape goat,that isn`t on.
Though they all caused a lot of trouble for the iraqi`s keeping them busy searching.Also for being SAS & being there behind enemy lines in the first place merits them as Good SpecOps.
Though lying in debrief & pinning the blame on a fallen comrade does not sit well. As CO basic SOPs where not followed.Therefore he shouldn`t have recieved the accolade he actually did receive for B20.

Ja
Steel bonnet

[Royal]

To be fair to them, 'McNabb', 'Ryan' and the other survivors didn't lie in the regimental wash up or AAR's. It was when they started writing faction that things went **** up.

[DPGLAW]

SHE GETS A MEDAL FOR MAKING A WRONG TURN, THEN GETTING CAUGHT...WHAT A LOAD OF BS...SHE SHOULD NOT BE AWARDED FOR BEING A MORON

[Jack Mehoff]

SHE GETS A MEDAL FOR MAKING A WRONG TURN, THEN GETTING CAUGHT...WHAT A LOAD OF BS...SHE SHOULD NOT BE AWARDED FOR BEING A MORON

Please stop being a dumbass. She's a PFC (Private First Class), the people you should blame are the officers because they were the one making all the decisions. But I do agree that she received way too much publicity for nothing.

Women+young+attractive+blond+military+POW=publicity. Welcome to the 21st century

[TheHoleInMyChest]

the only award she really deserves is a purple heart... nothing more, nothing less. i tell you what, if i was in that situation, there would be a mound of dead iraqi soldiers around me before i go down.

god bless the soldiers of the past and present that gave their lives for other's freedoms.

[96B]

We can all sit and criticize in the comfort of our homes, but none of us were there and we only have information from the media to go on. The military investigation is much more accurate and thorough and if they decided she deserved the medal, then she must have earned it. Keep in mind also all of her fellow POWs got the same medal as well as Purple Hearts and POW Medals. I agree the media coverage of it was bull**** but it is not her fault. As to them putting up a fight, I believe it was because their weapons were not maintained like they should have been and jammed up when they needed them. Remember, these were rear echelon troops that suddenly found themselves on the front lines.

The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the military of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or meritorious service. The required achievement or service while of lesser degree than that required for the award of the Legion of Merit must nevertheless have been meritorious and accomplished with distinction.

[Argyll]

Semper Fi wrote

The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the military of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party

Yep but what was so meritorius that she deserved it and not the others of the 507th.........she was in Hospital,they were in Prison,She stayed put and recieved excellent medical care,they were moved frequently,and were not looked after to the same extent!!
Anyway I though her BS was with V for valor?

[96B]

I apologize for not emphasizing it but I am pretty sure all of the rest of the POWs recieved the Bronze Star as well. I am not sure under what circumstances she recieved the decoration but was assuming she got it for meritorious service. Basically she (and they) performed her duties to the best of her abilities in the midst of mistakes but I would not go as far to say that she actually committed a heroic act.

[Jack Mehoff]

Semper Fi wrote

The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the military of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party

Yep but what was so meritorius that she deserved it and not the others of the 507th.........she was in Hospital,they were in Prison,She stayed put and recieved excellent medical care,they were moved frequently,and were not looked after to the same extent!!
Anyway I though her BS was with V for valor?

Nope, she got a Bronze Star without the V

[NcDeuce]

She does not deserve the bronze star. She deserves a pat on a back. My dad's been through SOF operations in Panama, Somalia, Iraq, and other places, he didn't get a bronze star. There are hundreds of thousands of troops out there that have done more than PFC Lynch. What a bowl of horse shi*.

Hell, if i was PFC Lynch, I wouldn't accept the award because I had done nothing to earn it.

[Ichhabe]

Who the hell have given YOU the God given right to decide that TF160SOAR???

[NcDeuce]

The right to decide what?

It's my opinion, if you don't like it, you can go back and whack off to your PFC Lynch ****.

[A$$MAN]

It's my opinion, if you don't like it, you can go back and whack off to your PFC Lynch ****.
It's my opinion TF is full of ****. A cadet who can't discern the difference between a ribbon and a medal, thinks he knows Delta and SF and lives off the glory of another is no cadet, but a TRIPLEFAILURE. Go back and read more high speed books.

[Argyll]

Thanks for the heads up semper re the other troops
They seem to be a lot more low key awards than this one.

Also thanks for the clarification on the V for Valor, Jack

I agree with TF160 on this,there are a hell of a lot more soldiers who have seen combat,and recieved Jack **** for thier effort,yet a 19 year old PFC,who attempts to leg it,from the ambush,and is in a Car crash,does.............smack's of Double standards,on the behalf of the US Military!!

[...]

By David H. Hackworth

Recently in Iraq, an Army two-star general put himself in for the Silver Star, a gallantry award, for just being there, and for the Combat Infantryman Badge, an award designed for infantry grunts far below the rank of this division commander.



During the war, members of an Air Force bomber crew were all awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for lobbing a smart bomb from 30,000 feet onto a house where Saddam was rumored to be breaking bread – even though Saddam’s still out there somewhere sucking desert air. In 1944, the only way a bomber crew might have gotten the DFC would have been if it had wobbled back from Berlin on one wing and a prayer after a dozen-plus missions of wall-to-wall flak.



Here’s another “Believe It or Not”: When the Scuds were thumping down on Kuwait, a Navy two-star admiral and six of his flunkies were awarded the Bronze Star after a missile struck 10 miles away.



Not that these abuses of the awards system are anything new. The U.S. military’s awards program – designed to recognize both our combat heroes’ valor and the meritorious deeds by those hard-working supporters who bring up the rear – has never been exactly fair.



In the past, Joe and Jill have often gone unrecognized because there was no one left at the end of the battle to bear witness, or the paperwork got lost or wasn’t written persuasively enough, or some eager-beaver officer in the chain of command stole their glory.



I know of two Medals of Honor – one in Korea and the other with a Navy unit in Vietnam – that shamefully went to still-living former officers when in fact their above-and-beyond deeds “witnessed” by sycophants were actually performed by grunts.



In the latter days of the Korean War and in Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm and Somalia, such abuses of military honors increased with each battle. In Vietnam, a dog was awarded the Bronze Star, and in Grenada, more medals were awarded than there were soldiers on that tiny island. In Desert Storm, Army infantry battalions that never saw a shot fired were awarded the coveted CIB.



Now warriors in Iraq are reporting that COs there are using a quota system for awards.



Sgt. Bill Casey, whose unit saw heavy combat in Iraq, says: “Our awards were not given out on heroism. They were based entirely upon rank and duty position. If you were a company commander, you got a Silver Star. If you were a platoon leader or platoon sergeant, you got a Bronze Star. If you did a good job at a level below that, you might get a Bronze Star. If you were a PFC (private first class), you probably didn’t get a medal for valor. Every award was entirely based upon rank and duty position – rather than whether that person stood tall and continued to return fire or whether that person continued to bring the fight to the enemy or flat-out ran away when the bullets started flying.”



These stats tell the story:



* The U.S. Air Force has approved more than 50,000 medals for operations in the Middle East.



* The U.S. Army, trying to catch up with the folks in blue who flew through all that imaginary Iraqi flak, has issued medals as though they were Cracker Jack prizes. So far they’ve pinned on tens of thousands of awards, from the coveted Distinguished Service Cross to the CIB. More than 5,000 Bronze Stars alone have been awarded. One-half the members of a 700-strong aviation squadron at Fort Stewart, Ga., were recently presented Bronze Stars and Commendation medals.



But as of Sept. 22, 2003, the U.S. Marine Corps has approved only 56 Meritorious Bronze Stars – 46 to officers, 10 to enlisted – and 15 Bronze Stars for valor – 11 to officers and four to enlisted – for their 70,000 fighters who kicked more than a little butt during the war in Iraq.



Kudos to our gallant Marine Corps for not following the quota system and to its top brass for refusing to play the Pentagon’s public-relations medal-giveaway game.



But any way you count ‘em, deserving grunts aren’t being appropriately recognized by a sick, out-of-control system that desperately needs overhauling.

[Ichhabe]

TF160SOAR said:

She does not deserve the bronze star.

As I said: Who are you, even with your so called "opinion" to be so sure that she doesn't deserve it?


She deserves a pat on a back.

If so, have you earned the right to give her that pat?


My dad's been through SOF operations in Panama, Somalia, Iraq, and other places, he didn't get a bronze star.

Well, boohooo on that. I think your dad knows very well what he has done. And doesn't need the medals to prove it. Why do you whine about that?


There are hundreds of thousands of troops out there that have done more than PFC Lynch. What a bowl of horse shi*.

Maybe millions also. But sometimes medals are given, as many already has said: because of politics. But you seem to young to understand that. Just "accept" it.


Hell, if i was PFC Lynch, I wouldn't accept the award because I had done nothing to earn it.

Again: I guess you sat at the roadside with avideo camera and filmed the whole thing. Cause you do have evidence for your statements?
Or maybe some of your "SF-friends" had it comming to them in a dream?

Enjoy this: :bash:

I am so sick and tired of boys who hasn't served 5 seconds in the real military, but taken advanced boy scout crash courses giving them the false feeling of the right to judge others. Man! I could shoot myself in the foot in uthermost anger.... grrrr

[Ratamacue]

I am so sick and tired of boys who hasn't served 5 seconds in the real military, but taken advanced boy scout crash courses giving them the false feeling of the right to judge others.

TF knows TONS of people in SOCOM and is in Army ROTC, so he knows all about this stuff, you know? ;)

[NcDeuce]

And I'm getting really tired of getting lectured by some 16 year old kid who thinks he knows everything.[/i]
No I am tired of being lectured on the moralities and justifications of what I SAW and what Israel does, from some 15 year old west point wanabee.

GODDAMN kid, do your homework. This Cadet is the real deal. Man, has this site gone down hill. Hey I am to and not some 16 year old. GODDAMN you just wont let me respond in kind!!!! :bash:

Oh and that cadet hasn’t seen a fraction and experienced a fraction of what I saw when I was in the military. Just a cadet………. rofl rofl

Really? What branch/unit were you in?

By the way, I don't think I know Delta and SF members because I know I do.

Lt. Col. Hudson, 5th SF Group, Deputy commander of 5th Group now? I went to school with his son and got to talk with Lt. Col. Hudson several times. Walks with a limp.

M. Flanigan, 5th SF Group sniper/chaplain. Did the ceremony for the funeral of MSG Davis who died in Afghanistan. I talk with him all the time because I'm close friends with his son.

Now for the Delta members, I know of two, one that was in for a couple of years and one who is going through selection.

My favorite high school teacher's husband, ex-Delta and 5th SF Group is now retired and training SWAT teams all over the east coast. He is the one who encouraged me to become an officer in SF, even though he said he couldn't name one officer he liked, lol. David is his name, no need to give last name.

The one who is going through selection is actually not in SF. He is an old Night Stalker crew chief. Lucio's son is one of my best friends and has told us he's found a "new unit" at Bragg. Hint Hint.

These are not bogus stories or names that I just pulled out of my ass. I really know these guys. And if you don't believe I'm a cadet, give me your e-mail address and I'll send you pictures.

[Ichhabe]

TF knows TONS of people in SOCOM and is in Army ROTC, so he knows all about this stuff, you know? ;)

Well, I know tens of tousands of tons. But I don't run around bragging about it. :bash:

[Deuterium]

I don't know about sending them to SERE. I can tell you that that one guy who said "I fix broke stuff" has got to have uttered the best line ever said in a SERE situation. His performance will be a matter of study for YEARS to come at all SERE schools. THAT guy deserves a medal for courage and competence under captivity.

[NcDeuce]

I'm not bragging. If you take my comments as bragging, I apologize. Someone stating that I do not know Delta, SF, or 160th SOAR members offends me. These guys are my friends, they are mentors, they are the ones who encouraged me to pursue Special Ops after school.

I am just tired of people thinking how good of a warrior PFC Lynch was. Granted, she might not have been trained as well as other units. I don't think her actions qualified her for this bronze star. If you gave Lynch a bronze star, you should give every grunt, Marine, pilot, crew chief, SF guy, etc. who has been in a skirmish a bronze medal.

[IDFM203]

And I'm getting really tired of getting lectured by some 16 year old kid who thinks he knows everything.[/i]
No I am tired of being lectured on the moralities and justifications of what I SAW and what Israel does, from some 15 year old west point wanabee.

GODDAMN kid, do your homework. This Cadet is the real deal. Man, has this site gone down hill. Hey I am to and not some 16 year old. GODDAMN you just wont let me respond in kind!!!! :bash:

Oh and that cadet hasn’t seen a fraction and experienced a fraction of what I saw when I was in the military. Just a cadet………. rofl rofl

Really? What branch/unit were you in?



I already responded to this and said where I was. Why did you take this post from another thread and put it here?!? Here was the response I had in the post that followed that post. (Its there in that thread that you took this post from)

[This is just a snippet from that post that I wrote, it is not the whole post]

“Next calling a fellow soldier a 16 year old is to only expect a response in kind (which is what I did). don’t call me that and I want question your age or service either. Respect is a two way street and when you falsely question my credentials I have the same right to question yours in response.

Now I have served in the military. I was a paratrooper in the NACHAL brigade. I was stationed throughout the west bank from the beginning of the war until a about a year ago. Now more then that I am not going to say over here on the net. OPSEC rules apply to me as well.”

[A$$MAN]

TF,
Other than pop some nasty zits on your pubescent face, what have you ever done...

IN THE REAL WORLD.

Claiming you're a ROTC doesn't mean ****. Running your mouth about the deeds of others means AGAIN--****.

[...]

Well Cadet if it was your platoon Lynch belonged to what would you expect out of one of your PFCs? Just wondering what kind of standard the next Audie Murphy is holding his junior soldiers to.

[NcDeuce]

First of all, I wouldn't be in a transportation unit. My career branch will most likely be in aviation since I have flight time in the UH-60. But say if I were that young Lt., I wouldn't have gotten them lost in the first place. Everyone...civilians and military members should ALL know how to use a map and compass.

Once again, I'm not claiming to be in Army ROTC. I am in Army ROTC. I'm an MS1 cadet. We have to salute officers we see in public, wear BDUs, do PT, go on FTX's, just like any Army unit. The crappy part is that we don't get deployed.

What have you done TYR? Please refrain from using profanity. I will not stoop down to that level.

[A$$MAN]

...claiming to be in Army ROTC. I am in Army ROTC. I'm an MS1 cadet. We have to salute officers we see in public, wear BDUs, do PT, go on FTX's, just like any Army unit. The crappy part is that we don't get deployed.
Without a dearth amount of BOCs, WTF would you do? Pretty much wiping asses.

Lastly, are you likening ROTC(if you are) to AD. then you're about as sharp as a marble.

[NcDeuce]

ROTC is not a big leap from AD

[Apogee]

The fact that you've been up in a 60 don't mean a whole heck of alot to Uncle Sam. There are alot of other factors that go into what branch you end up.

And I really wound't go around beating your chest about know all of these operators. Just try to be more humble and learn from what these guys have to say. Ichhabe has done alot of stuff with mine clearing all over the world(or so I gather from some of his older posts.

If you've got an opinion about something then go ahead and say it, but don't be surprised when people jump on you about it. Trying to fall back on your relationships with guys from SOCOM doesn't really lend you alot of credability. Just my .o2$

Jeez..... I feel like I'm hazing a plebe....

[A$$MAN]

ROTC is not a big leap from AD
Someone contact the CSA, we have a genius. Cancel, I repeat CANCEL ALL Basic courses for newly commissioned 2LT. Simply, "line'em up and sign'em up" from ROTC.

Are you that stupid, claiming officer basic courses as trival to the development of officers. STUPID!

If you're this way here online, you must be unsufferable with your high speed friends.

[NcDeuce]

Have you been in ROTC?

From the above comment, I doubt it. The three officers in our ROTC battalion all agree that it is not a big leap. If you disagree, you might want to talk to these guys. O'Hara Former pilot...Lane (Citadel graduate) MS4's are basically done, they are just awaiting their gold bar. In case you didn't know, contracted ROTC cadets outrank all enlisted military members, this should give you an idea of the training a cadet has been through. Note: I'm not saying we know everything.

[A$$MAN]

...I'm hazing a plebe....
I must now send your name to the HONOR Council. Remember all acts of hazing must be...

[IDFM203]

@TF160SOAR

I am just curious as to why you asked me where I served, also why you asked me about it in this thread or why you even brought it up in the first place?!? again I am just curious that is all....

[NcDeuce]

Nice to see you're not a greasy, pimple-faced 15-year old!

[Apogee]

In case you didn't know, contracted ROTC cadets outrank all enlisted military members.

You try telling some E8 that you out rank him. All you are going to hear is "Beat your face"

You are seriously sounding alot like a plebe bro. Calm down a little bit. Even West Point isn't near AD.

You've got alot to learn. I have alot to learn too, but you've got a whole heck of alot further to go. Try not to be so bull headed and just take it in stride.

oh yeah, and TYR, I don't think that'd be honor, more like Regs and Disipline. But don't tell, cuz I wouldn't want to walk hours ;)

[A$$MAN]

Have you been in ROTC?

From the above comment, I doubt it. The three officers in our ROTC battalion all agree that it is not a big leap. If you disagree, you might want to talk to these guys. Lt. Col O'Hara (our ROTC commander) Former 160th SOAR pilot...Lt. Col. Lane (Citadel graduate/Air Assault)...Maj. Tripp (Former 101st pilot). MS4's are basically done, they are just awaiting their gold bar. In case you didn't know, contracted ROTC cadets outrank all enlisted military members.

Bring them online, let them make the statement that ROTC CADETS are INTERCHANGEABLE with grads of Basic courses. Let them put their careers on the line.

Seriously, think of what you're saying. A Cadet from a state college can fill in a position from a 2LT out of Benning. Not very smart.

And yes I'm a ROTC alum, but not your kind.

[IDFM203]

Nice to see you're not a greasy, pimple-faced 15-year old!Well obviously the jury's still out on you whether you are that are not.....

But again why the hell would you bring that up here in this thread. It was in another thread in middle of another discussion?!?.

(Now if you were not being rude here and I just misunderstood your tone then I apologise for my response here)

[NcDeuce]

I know, I disagree with the contracted cadets outranking an E-8 with 20+ years of service. How would I know, because my dad is a retired E-8. I still refer to them as sir when we're doing a field exercise out at Campbell even though I technically outrank them, I don't care, I know I don't know as much as these 20+ year 5th SF, 160th SOAR, and 101st guys so I don't have a problem with ranks.

And no, I'm not a 15-year old pimple-faced kid...Want a pretty picture to prove this one?

[IDFM203]

And no, I'm not a 15-year old pimple-faced kid...Want a pretty picture to prove this one?
No, you’re not following me here. What did I have to do with this conversation?!? I hadn’t posted a single thing in the thread (till your post) or for that matter anything directed towards you (again till after your post).

So again, why the hell did you bring this up here?!? Why did you take a post from another thread and post it here?!?


I am not seeking any flame war here. I am just curious as to why you have called me out here seemingly out of the blue for I had nothing to do with this conversation.?!?

[NcDeuce]

idfm203 wrote:
TYR wrote:
idfm203 wrote:
USMA_SCUBA wrote:


And I'm getting really tired of getting lectured by some 16 year old kid who thinks he knows everything.[/i]

No I am tired of being lectured on the moralities and justifications of what I SAW and what Israel does, from some 15 year old west point wanabee.


GODDAMN kid, do your homework. This Cadet is the real deal. Man, has this site gone down hill.
Hey I am to and not some 16 year old. GODDAMN you just wont let me respond in kind!!!!

Oh and that cadet hasn’t seen a fraction and experienced a fraction of what I saw when I was in the military. Just a cadet……….

Found these quotes interesting. Especially the "Just a cadet" and comment on how SCUBA was a 15 year old West Point wannabe.

[IDFM203]

idfm203 wrote:
TYR wrote:
idfm203 wrote:
USMA_SCUBA wrote:


And I'm getting really tired of getting lectured by some 16 year old kid who thinks he knows everything.[/i]

No I am tired of being lectured on the moralities and justifications of what I SAW and what Israel does, from some 15 year old west point wanabee.


GODDAMN kid, do your homework. This Cadet is the real deal. Man, has this site gone down hill.
Hey I am to and not some 16 year old. GODDAMN you just wont let me respond in kind!!!!

Oh and that cadet hasn’t seen a fraction and experienced a fraction of what I saw when I was in the military. Just a cadet……….

Found these quotes interesting. Especially the "Just a cadet" and comment on how SCUBA was a 15 year old West Point wannabe.ahhhhh so you just trying to show that USMA_SCUBA is just a mere cadet and shouldn’t be criticizing you (if he was doing that)...right?!? Is that what you were trying to do?!?

For if not then why would you post anything about that here instead of responding in that thread where that post was found.

and I still dont understand why you asked where I served when I responded to that in the follow up post in that thread......oh well.....

[NcDeuce]

Because from those above comments, you don't sound like a mature soldier who has "seen things" that we have only seen "fractions of".

I may be young but I still have seen "things". I remember when I was little, when I lived at Benning, my dad came home and had blood stains on him. I was just a child but I was curious and I learned later on that he had a young Lt., fresh out of college, die in his arms. The young Lt. sadly killed himself in bayonet training.

I remember watching the news and seeing my dad's friends and comrades being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu.

I have seen "things". We all have. And once I get into the military, I'm sure I will "see things" then too.

[NcDeuce]

Are you slow or something? I said I posted those quotes because you made demeaning comments towards cadets in general. I asked you if you were in the military because why would a person in the military criticize a cadet-in-training who will someday be working under or maybe even above you.

[Ichhabe]

TF160SOAR, I have never thought or implied that you are not a ROTC. Hell, until 2 months ago I did not even knew what it was. Still not sure now either. But I've read a little about it, so I ain't totally in the dark zone.

I also belive that you know in person more SF-guys than most people in here will meet in a life time.

But that is not the point.

The point as I see it is: You are attacking a Private First Class.
That went to war.
That followed orders.
That had to suffer the consequences for those orders.

Now, I ain't no expert on US-ranks. But you cannot be any lower than a PFC. Next in line is Private, and the next after that is unemployeed.

She probably doesn't know about this forum. And even if she knew, she could not get in here and defend herself.

And why should she? Was it her, that demanded that medal? Was she filing the report on that act? No. Don't think so.

If you want to complain about something in the US-military, go for why the hell on earth do soldiers have to go on months on end on that horrible MRE's of yours. And what smart ass decided that 95% of the meals in that MRE-menu should contain tomato-sauce. Go for that. It really boggled my mind. :D

[IDFM203]

Because from those above comments, you don't sound like a mature soldier who has "seen things" that you have only seen "fractions of".

I may be young but I still have seen "things". I remember when I was little, when I lived at Benning, my dad came home and had blood stains on him. I was just a child but I was curious and I learned later on that he had a young Lt., fresh out of college, die in his arms. The young Lt. sadly killed himself in bayonet training.

I remember watching the news and seeing my dad's friends and comrades being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu.

I have seen "things". We all have. And once I get into the military, I'm sure I will "see things" then too.Ok so this is about me.........why didnt you bring that up in that thread?!?

Go back and read that thread, you will see that I was responding to his juvenile comments and insults at me. But again we patched it up so I suggest you go over in that thread and go over it.


Ok to clarify. since you have a hard time in understanding. Like I said before, I was a paratrooper stationed throughout the west bank and have been two years in that current war. To add now. I have seen and experienced conflict first hand in rammalh, shchem(nablus), Jericho, and a few other areas in the west back which aren’t so famous.
I am not going to go into detail here for I also adhere to OPSEC rules as well, but suffice to say when an idf paratrooper says that he was in the west bank in the past few years and that he has seen things it should be obvious that he has experienced fist hand a lot as well. Is that more clear ?!?

geez only on the net can some punk kid question a mans military service.....wow..........oh well.....

Oh and when have I ever directed anything towards you?!? I mean why the hell did you START to go after me here?!?

[NcDeuce]

An SF guy told me you're not supposed to eat MRE's more than 7 days in a row. LOL. Oh well. I think they're pretty good, the crackers are great.


Now, I ain't no expert on US-ranks. But you cannot be any lower than a PFC. Next in line is Private, and the next after that is unemployeed.

She probably doesn't know about this forum. And even if she knew, she could not get in here and defend herself.

And why should she? Was it her, that demanded that medal? Was she filing the report on that act? No. Don't think so.

Thanks, haven't thought about it from that point of view. :hug:

[IDFM203]

Are you slow or something? I said I posted those quotes because you made demeaning comments towards cadets in general. I asked you if you were in the military because why would a person in the military criticize a cadet-in-training who will someday be working under or maybe even above you.First of all no U.S. military cadat will have anything to do with me

Secondly why did you bring that up here?!? Go respond in that thread if you have some problem........

Oh and go read the WHOLE thread and you will see that I was responding to his negative comments directed towards me. But again we have come to an understanding and I have said that I respect greatly that institution and it was just that I was having problems with him personally.

Geeez you are seriously proving your youth here with your clear lack of understanding.


:bash: :bash:

[NcDeuce]

No, I will take your word on it.


Just don't go bashing all of the cadets in the U.S. for the actions of one.

[Ichhabe]

TF160SOAR said:
An SF guy told me you're not supposed to eat MRE's more than 7 days in a row. LOL. Oh well. I think they're pretty good, the crackers are great.

We had them for 3 months. Who can I sue, I want to be a millionaire!! :lol:

[ibstolidude]

An SF guy told me you're not supposed to eat MRE's more than 7 days in a row. LOL. Oh well. I think they're pretty good, the crackers are great.

but unfortunately that doesn't mean you won't eat them for 7days straight or longer...but hey there is always T-rats/UGR..nothing like 9 months of the same 5 ****ing meals! Nothing like getting resupplied and seeing another 30boxes of egg omlets or even better 'sausage and brine'. Or that horrid chicken..menu H&S#10..like a punch in the face..
ohhh but bless those 'my own meal' kosher/hala snack packs!

you also are not supposed to give certain MRE components/meals to young children (ie. thirld world villagers) as it can be difficullt to digest.

[IDFM203]

No, I will take your word on it.


Just don't go bashing all of the cadets in the U.S. for the actions of one.Yes and I am happy that it been made clear to me that ones juvenile appearance on this site is not a reflection of that great institution or its cadats.

And again if you look back at that thread you will see that we ended off pretty well (notwithstanding his previous juvenile and false comments) and I made it clear that I hold that institution with high respect and that I even wished him good luck.

Next time you want to respond to something do it in its proper thread. For the life of me I don’t know why you took that post and posted it here.
But I guess I will leave that aspect of it for now. I just hope you finally got my point.

[rant mode on]
Now as it stands now I am a world apart from you in terms of life and military experience. Show some respect!!. I didn’t call you out or anything like that. Heck I don’t believe I even ever had a post or a response to you. How dare you as a punk kid try to come at me out of the blue and question my service? Who the hell are you?!? What the F**k have you ever done to question me?!? I am not upset here, I am just irritated that someone with no military experience can have the gull to question one with tons of it, about his service.[end of rant]

Ok good night and shalom!! :D

[Trigger]

@TF160SOAR:
[constructive criticism]I grew up on Air Force Bases. While attending High School, I lived on a base in Alaska. My best friends' fathers were 1) Base Commander and 2) Squadron CO of the Recon Sqn. based there. I used to hang out at their houses on an almost daily basis. The Recon CO flew regular missions along the Kamchatka penninsula monitoring then Soviet Ballistic Missile tests. When visiting the Base CO's house I saw several dozen 8x10 glossy photos of Bear bombers, taken by the F15 pilots the previous day's intercept. This happened on a regular basis, and none of them were classified (in case you were wondering). NONE of these things led me to believe that I was somehow the equal of these men. Men who on any given day might easily be shot out of the sky. Men who had flown hundreds of missions over North Vietnam in the past. NONE of these things led me to believe that I could tell ANYONE that I was somehow more informed than they were. Was I in awe of these men? HELL YES. Was I somehow more qualified to discuss Active Duty life simply because I spent a lot of time with them, but had not yet actually served a day? HELL NO. Knowing people with experience does not equal having the same experience.
For the sake of your future military career and the sake of men you may command in the future, please learn when to talk and when to sit quietly, listen and learn.
Wise man say: better to be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.[\constructive criticism]