Protection against IR and/or NVG

[ocean000]

Hello,

i am curious about modern uniforms and gear, if they are protected ( in a degree) against Night vision goggles or IR. The uniform of the German Army is described as IR-save....has anybody information about that? And what about ACU, Multicam....There are also Camo sprays which promise the same....anybody know something about it?

[Jippo]

All western (modern) camo is NIR protected, AFAIK. It only means that the fabric reflects light the same way in NIR wavelengths as it does in in the visual spectrum.

About sprays: :)

[1984]

Cold-Blooded Pro

[domokun]

All western (modern) camo is NIR protected, AFAIK. It only means that the fabric reflects light the same way in NIR wavelengths as it does in in the visual spectrum.

About sprays: :)

Spacing of cloth layers is essential in being less visible to thermal imagers when it comes to tents and camo netting.

[tommyflatline]

Cold-Blooded Pro

ya beat me to it...damn you!!! lol

[rhino]

why would anyone want to discuss technology that actually give our boys and girls an edge over people they face every day????

[Mein Teil]

why would anyone want to discuss technology that actually give our boys and girls an edge over people they face every day????

...it's all over the internets already

[Virus]

...it's all over the internets already

But let's not propagate such information here.

[Kaapeli]

I remember that you aren't supposed to wash army camourflage uniforms at home with civilian washing detergents because it ruins the anti-night vision treatment of the fabric and even make them glow in NVG.

[Jippo]

Spacing of cloth layers is essential in being less visible to thermal imagers when it comes to tents and camo netting.

It is a different thing. Thermal imagers measure the temperature of the surface, and there is really nothing that you can add to a fabric to permanently change it's temperature.

NVD's that work in the near infrared area just amplify reflected light. And military clothes etc. are made so that they are not reflective in those wavelengths. Some washing powders and detergents have particles that are reflective in near infrared, and if the clothes are washed with those the particles remaining in the material will make the cloth glow in NVD (what Kaapeli said). But there are many that don't as well, you just have to know what to buy.

[Sabre]

why would anyone want to discuss technology that actually give our boys and girls an edge over people they face every day????

Because I doubt anyone here will actually say how to make an item reflect IR appropriately. I also doubt that the taliban will take to wearing complete western uniforms in order to reduce their IR signature as a result of this thread. IR protection is a passive, inate quality of our equipment and discussing it here will not make our forces any more visible to IR devices. It would be like banning all cammo discussions on this site on the basis that the enemy can't possibly be made aware of our ingenious method of painting things the same colour as the ground!

To answer the original question, 'IRR' means that an item has a suitable IR signature similar to most objects in nature. Comparing an item that is IRR with a comercial item under NVGs will show the difference in detectibility.

[para944]

About Nightvision equipment: The fabric a garment is made of isn't the most important factor when trying to hide from NVG's. The colour plays a far more important role: for example, the german "Sumpfmuster" comprises wood brown elements which absorbe light because the human eye isn't abeld to see brown as well other colours, e.g. blue.

[Arctic1]

About Nightvision equipment: The fabric a garment is made of isn't the most important factor when trying to hide from NVG's. The colour plays a far more important role: for example, the german "Sumpfmuster" comprises wood brown elements which absorbe light because the human eye isn't abeld to see brown as well other colours, e.g. blue.

No.

The color of the garment doesn't matter at all. As has been said by others in the thread already, the IR reflective properties and surface of what you are looking at, a uniform for example, determines if an object will appear as a bright green splotch, ie not natural, or if it will appear as a darker shape, like trees and stuff appear when viewed through NVG's.

Two people could be wearing a sweater in the same color but, due to different IR reflective properties, one would appear bright green and the other would appear dark green.

Don't confuse how the eye works in daylight with how an image is created by NVG's. Not the same thing.

In addition, the amount of ambient light present will influence how things appear when viewed by NVG's.

[para944]

Everything correct what what you said.

BUT: The color does matter. Maybe you didn't get the point because my explenation wasn't that good.

Some colours have different reflective properties depending e.g. on the brightness of the colour itself. The Waffen SS has done a lot of trials and reasearch work in this field.

If you want I can send you this stuff via email.

[Lasse]

That's a barely yes, not much at all.
Look down at the bottom here (http://www.militarymorons.com/misc/camo.html#asb). The USMC pack (wl marpat with cb webbing against snow) is the best example (also the glove is good). The dye of the color is of course related to the IR properties, but there are mil spec ways to do this, which then with the added IR resistant can provide a NIR no matter what color it is.

Artic1 knows his stuff, and the Waffen SS probably didn't have a lot of high tech NVGs...

[Arctic1]

Everything correct what what you said.

BUT: The color does matter. Maybe you didn't get the point because my explenation wasn't that good.

Some colours have different reflective properties depending e.g. on the brightness of the colour itself. The Waffen SS has done a lot of trials and reasearch work in this field.

If you want I can send you this stuff via email.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong.

How light reflects off of an object during daytime, ie how we percieve the color of said object, does not have anything to with how an object appears when viewed through NVG's.

We had a guy from ITT, a company that develops and produces alot of NV devices, come and hold a brief for us when we (the norwegian military) recieved our PVS-14's, during my NVG instructors course. A few of the bullet points from that brief are:

-Impossible to distinguish between colors
-Lighter or darker greens are a factor of the reflectivity of the object. The higher reflectivity produces lighter green images
-If color is an important mission consideration a monocular system is best

Then there is what is known as contrast reversal:

-The reflectivity of an object (material or texture) determines wether it will appear light or dark
-Dark object may appear light, light objects may appear dark

Picture

132276

If you're having difficulties reading what the different objects are, they are as follows:

1: Tan something
2: Tan starched
3: Black leather
4: Denim
5: Police jacket
6: Black BDU
7: Unknown
8: Unknown
9: Black sweatshirt

Same order from left to right on the pic where they are viewed through NVG's.

As you can see from this picture, the Police Jacket and the black sweatshirt, two garments that would be difficult to see during the night, appear light through the NVG's.

The one area where color is a factor, is when looking directly at other light sources through NVG's. NVG's are more sensitive to red and white light, than for example green and blue. Therefore red and white lights may appear closer than green or blue light, when the distance is actually the same.

Also, click on Lasse's link, as Military Moron has a few good photos as well.