Human Universal Load Carrier

[Flavius22]

Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] has selected Protonex Technology Corporation to develop power supply concepts that will enable the HULC robotic exoskeleton to support 72+-hour extended missions. Protonex will evaluate fuel cell-based power solutions that can be carried by the HULC, while at the same time powering the exoskeleton and the user’s mission equipment during extended dismounted operations.

"Integrating state-of-the-art power technology on the HULC is a whole system approach to meeting the needs of dismounted Warfighters and Special Operations forces," said Rich Russell, director of Sensors, Data Links and Advanced Programs at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control. “With proper power management systems, the HULC can be used to recharge critical equipment while carrying heavy combat loads on an extended mission."

http://www.defpro.com/news/details/12620/

[budanski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1CeBOWm67A

Popular Science article
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-01/robotic-super-soldier-suit-gets-more-juice

[Holmes85]

This is very interesting.

[IDF_TANKER]

Science fiction right there. I'm a bit skeptical though about the energy resources this thing will need. He will have to carry one huge battery, and there are no many power outlets for recharging in the Taliban land...

[Alfacentori]

Will be useful when they have to start lowering fitness standards and let more overweight people into the military, HULC, aka BULC indeed

Alfa

[cmc]

This is great, but I think the main beneficiary of this system would be disabled people.

[IDF_TANKER]

This is great, but I think the main beneficiary of this system would be disabled people.

I'm not sure about it. The problem with disabled , which can't move their limbs at all (e.g. people paralyzed from waist down), is that this system has to receive signals from your limbs in order to know where to move.

[Paddy51]

I'm not sure about it. The problem with disabled , which can't move their limbs at all (e.g. people paralyzed from waist down), is that this system has to receive signals from your limbs in order to know where to move.

A valid and important point. However, there is some recent research has shown that it may be possible to control devices with brain-computer-interfaces. One idea is to get a signal from the brain (external sensors) that is a move leg command and then link that to a device that moves. There have been good successes with simple commands such as lights on, but the real challenge is to capture motor commands in detail.

See below for examples of this kind of work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain%E2%80%93computer_interface

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091006102637.htm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/31/60minutes/main4560940.shtml

[Marshall_Nord]

He will have to carry one huge battery, and there are no many power outlets for recharging in the Taliban land...

They can use generators.

[little icebear]

I'm not sure about it. The problem with disabled , which can't move their limbs at all (e.g. people paralyzed from waist down), is that this system has to receive signals from your limbs in order to know where to move.

I´ve seen a documentary in which it was mentioned that they are working on receiving impulses from the spine or directly from the brain.

[eATS]

nice vid, posted some older ones while back.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?147712-supersoldier-Concepts

[Mikhael]

This is great, but I think the main beneficiary of this system would be disabled people.

Well HAL from CyberDyne :) was constructed for people who are disabled in some way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_k30yeCk4c

[Nacho-Libre]

it wouldnt surprise me if we start seeing actual "mechs" in military applications in the next 10 - 15 years.. Im not talking about the building sized robots that battle it out gundam style, but rather the "avatar" and "aliens" style mechs, i.e

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7642/p1030573.jpg

[IDF_TANKER]

A valid and important point. However, there is some recent research has shown that it may be possible to control devices with brain-computer-interfaces. One idea is to get a signal from the brain (external sensors) that is a move leg command and then link that to a device that moves. There have been good successes with simple commands such as lights on, but the real challenge is to capture motor commands in detail.

See below for examples of this kind of work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain%E2%80%93computer_interface

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091006102637.htm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/31/60minutes/main4560940.shtml

Yes, I'm aware of this. I was rather referring to the technology presented in the video.

[mhpr262]

I heard they are going to usea fuel cell for the HULC . . . which means the soldier will have to lug a couple of gallons of super flammable reformed methanol through firefights and IED ambushes - on his back.

I´m not sure soldiers in A´stan will be standing in line to try this out...

[Paddy51]

Yes, I'm aware of this. I was rather referring to the technology presented in the video.

Fair point. :)

[Paddy51]

I heard they are going to usea fuel cell for the HULC . . . which means the soldier will have to lug a couple of gallons of super flammable reformed methanol through firefights and IED ambushes - on his back.

I´m not sure soldiers in A´stan will be standing in line to try this out...

Scary idea. My cartoon mind generates mind boggling images which would be funny if this wasn’t so serious.

Not HULC but Rocketman....

[2495]

Goodness me. All this about power suits and not a single word about nanofibres and composite armour. Its going to make all this exoskeleton work look a fools errand.

[Paddy51]

Goodness me. All this about power suits and not a single word about nanofibres and composite armour. Its going to make all this exoskeleton work look a fools errand.

Good day 2495.

You can do the nanofibres and I´ll do the interfaces. Can't say fairer than that.

[Abyr]

Sorry, if this is a repost, I tried to search, but the search function is being weird for some time now...



http://www.youtube.com/v/kat8I5UM_Vs


I must say, this is lookingreally impressive even if it's still a long way to go

[BlackWarder]

I'm prety sure that it is but I also haven't been able to find the original thread...

Anyway this is a good place as any:



HULC Exoskeleton to Fuel Cell For Over 3 Days of Power (http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/01/hulc-exoskeleton-to-fuel-cell-for-over.html)

Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] has selected Protonex Technology Corporation to develop power supply concepts that will enable the HULC robotic exoskeleton to support 72+-hour extended missions.

The Lockheed HULC exoskeleton was covered here Previously a jet fuel generator was needed to get this level of endurance.

Protonex will evaluate fuel cell-based power solutions that can be carried by the HULC, while at the same time powering the exoskeleton and the user’s mission equipment during extended dismounted operations.

"Integrating state-of-the-art power technology on the HULC is a whole system approach to meeting the needs of dismounted Warfighters and Special Operations forces," said Rich Russell, director of Sensors, Data Links and Advanced Programs at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control. “With proper power management systems, the HULC can be used to recharge critical equipment while carrying heavy combat loads on an extended mission."

Dismounted Soldiers often carry loads greater than 130 pounds, including electronics and numerous extra batteries needed to operate gear and complete 72+-hour operations in the field. The HULC, equipped with an extended mission power supply with recharge capability, would enable dismounted Soldiers on these missions to carry fewer batteries


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_qR8zCLDc&feature=player_embedded


* Soldiers will be able to carry loads up to 200 pounds with minimal effort
* HULC uses four pounds of lithium polymer batteries will run the exoskeleton for an hour walking at 3mph, according to Lockheed. Speed marching at up to 7mph reduces this somewhat; a battery-draining "burst" at 10mph is the maximum speed
A soldier with a pack would normally go at 3 mph maximum and cover 10-12 miles in a day.
* Remote-controlled gun mounts weighing as little as 55lb are available, able to handle various kinds of normally tripod- or bipod-mounted heavy weapons

* HULC is basically a legs and body system only: there's no enhancement to the user's arms, though an over-shoulder frame can be fitted allowing a wearer to hoist heavy objects such as artilery shells with the aid of a lifting strop.

NOTE: Average humans walk 4 to 6 mph, but special operations soldiers are often expected to carry up to 150 pounds of supplies in their backpacks. 25mph speed with bionic boots (springing the step) would be covering almost a marathon distance in one hour.

[tercio67]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?173040-Lockheed-s-HULC-Super-Soldier-Exoskeleton-Gets-More-Juice

[BlackWarder]

Posted on a nother thread:



HULC Exoskeleton to Fuel Cell For Over 3 Days of Power (http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/01/hulc-exoskeleton-to-fuel-cell-for-over.html)

Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] has selected Protonex Technology Corporation to develop power supply concepts that will enable the HULC robotic exoskeleton to support 72+-hour extended missions.

The Lockheed HULC exoskeleton was covered here Previously a jet fuel generator was needed to get this level of endurance.

Protonex will evaluate fuel cell-based power solutions that can be carried by the HULC, while at the same time powering the exoskeleton and the user’s mission equipment during extended dismounted operations.

"Integrating state-of-the-art power technology on the HULC is a whole system approach to meeting the needs of dismounted Warfighters and Special Operations forces," said Rich Russell, director of Sensors, Data Links and Advanced Programs at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control. “With proper power management systems, the HULC can be used to recharge critical equipment while carrying heavy combat loads on an extended mission."

Dismounted Soldiers often carry loads greater than 130 pounds, including electronics and numerous extra batteries needed to operate gear and complete 72+-hour operations in the field. The HULC, equipped with an extended mission power supply with recharge capability, would enable dismounted Soldiers on these missions to carry fewer batteries


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_qR8zCLDc&feature=player_embedded


* Soldiers will be able to carry loads up to 200 pounds with minimal effort
* HULC uses four pounds of lithium polymer batteries will run the exoskeleton for an hour walking at 3mph, according to Lockheed. Speed marching at up to 7mph reduces this somewhat; a battery-draining "burst" at 10mph is the maximum speed
A soldier with a pack would normally go at 3 mph maximum and cover 10-12 miles in a day.
* Remote-controlled gun mounts weighing as little as 55lb are available, able to handle various kinds of normally tripod- or bipod-mounted heavy weapons

* HULC is basically a legs and body system only: there's no enhancement to the user's arms, though an over-shoulder frame can be fitted allowing a wearer to hoist heavy objects such as artilery shells with the aid of a lifting strop.

NOTE: Average humans walk 4 to 6 mph, but special operations soldiers are often expected to carry up to 150 pounds of supplies in their backpacks. 25mph speed with bionic boots (springing the step) would be covering almost a marathon distance in one hour.

In the end it's all a matter of energy and there are some great progress in the last years in that regard.

We might start seeing this systems in active use around 2017-2020 but I wonder how it will look in 2030...

BTW, Mechs such as the ones in Avatar and Alians are not a good idea from a military POV, they are very visable, unstable, unable to effectivly fight in urban areas etc etc... they are cool though but in today battle field they are just really big targets...

Warder

[MichaelF]

SARCOS is the design path I'm betting on.

Secondly, you (the notional Power Armor Commando) have to be both tough enough to withstand small arms fire and light frag/blast effects AND still remain small and agile enough to take cover (and seek concealment) from crew-served and AT systems that can defeat your armor. A bit of a narrow fit. Until then, it's the province of the guys who need to lug around heavy items (Engineers, arty crews, ordnance and supply, maintenance, etc), rather than the Infantry*.



*-I doubt you'll see average grunts equipped with these systems. Most likely a Company-sized formation in every HBCT.

[hogdriver]

I think they watched "Aliens" :grin:

http://i46.tinypic.com/34i45s7.jpg

[ZoneOne]

So, the system weighs around 50lbs. The weight it allows the Soldier to carry is over 250lbs. All the power of the system is in the legs and the video claims the Soldier doesn't even feel the weight of the system (50lbs)

But what if that Soldier falls flat on his face. He now has 300lbs + on his back and no way of getting up if it's a significant load. The old exo-skeleton had arms, the one in the video was only a backpack with legs.

[vinny_121_ND]

So, the system weighs around 50lbs. The weight it allows the Soldier to carry is over 250lbs. All the power of the system is in the legs and the video claims the Soldier doesn't even feel the weight of the system (50lbs)

But what if that Soldier falls flat on his face. He now has 300lbs + on his back and no way of getting up if it's a significant load. The old exo-skeleton had arms, the one in the video was only a backpack with legs.

True, I didn't think about that.

[BlackWarder]

It can cope with standing from a ****e position, if you can kneel in it and run and lean forward than you can also get up.

Warder

[Flagg]

While I think that stuff is pretty cool looking, I wonder if we're going about things backwards.

The system weighs 50-ish pounds at the moment.

It will surely add to the logistics pipeline.....in those very same Afghan mountains does anyone know how much it costs to get each pound/KG into the AO?

I don't know either, but I'm sure it's a whole lot of money.

Are there many projects on the go to look at light infantry kit and seeing what can be done to reduce weight via lighter replacements?

The "Grand Slam" projects are pretty cool, but I'd probably rather see a whole lotta "singles" and "doubles".

Pretend for a second you are putting a light infanteer onto the moon......at eleventeen jillion dollars a pound/KG.....I doubt there'd be much demand for exoskeletons.

Is Afghanistan any different?

Why not put a bunch of light infantry grunts, a couple cutting edge high end outdoor gear manufacturers, and some NASA big brain engineers focused on shaving weight and lock them in a room with enough pizza and beer until they can figure out how to put the same kit on an infanteer's back for half the total existing weight.

No exoskeleton logistics train and cost.

No exeskeleton operator's course

No exeskeleton instructor's course

No exoskeleton field maintenance course

No exoskeleton depot maintenance course

Why not just make the infanteer's kit LIGHTER?

Exoskeleton's are cool and R&D money should be spent on it........but how much would it be worth to have each infanteer capable of doing the same jobs with half the weight burden?

Half might be more than a bit aggressive as water, ammunition, and to a certain extent weapon systems can't shave much weight...but what about everything else?

Packs, E-tools, tents, sleeping bags, bivvie bags, wet weathers, webbing, body armour, helmets, everything else.

An ounce is an ounce a gram is a gram...surely there are many that can be shaved off before going all Battlebot.

[Nano]

Genetic augmentation is where it's at. Biological organisms self repair and be multi-utilized. The Exoskeleton would be of more use as a forklift replacement in civilian world where some loads don't go beyond 200 pounds, but require more hands and a forklift to move safely.

Yeah, cut down on weight through superior materials science and there be no need for forklifts for a light infantry squad to have in combat.

[fokket]

FINALLY! Someone took notice of how knee actually works!! (IT's NOT a simple single pivot joint)

Kudos to Lockheed

[wreck]

Interesting to see how this affects the transportation of troops due to all the extra weight and space required.

[the_13th_redneck]

It's just the first of its generation so I wouldn't go slagging it off so easily.
Don't know about carrying more stuff necessarily but in increasing soldier mobility in mountains, hell yeah. That would give a significant edge over the enemy.
Eventually we'l have power suits. :D

[BlackWarder]

While I think that stuff is pretty cool looking, I wonder if we're going about things backwards.

The system weighs 50-ish pounds at the moment.

It will surely add to the logistics pipeline.....in those very same Afghan mountains does anyone know how much it costs to get each pound/KG into the AO?

I don't know either, but I'm sure it's a whole lot of money.

Are there many projects on the go to look at light infantry kit and seeing what can be done to reduce weight via lighter replacements?

The "Grand Slam" projects are pretty cool, but I'd probably rather see a whole lotta "singles" and "doubles".

Pretend for a second you are putting a light infanteer onto the moon......at eleventeen jillion dollars a pound/KG.....I doubt there'd be much demand for exoskeletons.

Is Afghanistan any different?

Why not put a bunch of light infantry grunts, a couple cutting edge high end outdoor gear manufacturers, and some NASA big brain engineers focused on shaving weight and lock them in a room with enough pizza and beer until they can figure out how to put the same kit on an infanteer's back for half the total existing weight.

No exoskeleton logistics train and cost.

No exeskeleton operator's course

No exeskeleton instructor's course

No exoskeleton field maintenance course

No exoskeleton depot maintenance course

Why not just make the infanteer's kit LIGHTER?

Exoskeleton's are cool and R&D money should be spent on it........but how much would it be worth to have each infanteer capable of doing the same jobs with half the weight burden?

Half might be more than a bit aggressive as water, ammunition, and to a certain extent weapon systems can't shave much weight...but what about everything else?

Packs, E-tools, tents, sleeping bags, bivvie bags, wet weathers, webbing, body armour, helmets, everything else.

An ounce is an ounce a gram is a gram...surely there are many that can be shaved off before going all Battlebot.

I'm not sure that light infantry is what you are realy looking for, the waight an infantry man need to carry is in a steady climb since WWII and it's going upward even though the actual waight of individual pieces of gear has gone down.

The climb up is the result of added gear such as night gogels, personal radios, body armor, AT missiles, AA missiles etc etc....
Another point is that SF troops need to carry all of their gear into an op and back that adds more waight than the average infantry.

The term light infantry is often missleading, since "light" does not mean the waight an individual soldier carry but the lack of vehicle footprint and/or heavy weapons, light infantry actualy lack the lethality, greater surviveablity and mobilty of heavy units in exchange of greater strategic mobility and the ability to carry on missions under restrictive terrain and weather that may otherwise impair a heavy unit's mobility.

Due to the lack of vehicles, soldiers in a light unit will normally carry heavier individual loads versus other forces because they litteraly need to carry it all.

I do not think that the logistic strain of an HULC like system will be so big as to make the concept financialy unsutable compared to benefits, yes you will cary an extra 50 pounds per soldier to the theater so what? you are not sending this on a spaceship (that btw will cost you about 1mil$ per suit to LEO...) you are either sending it on jet liners as part of rapid deployment (moderatly costly) or on a ship (dirt cheap).

The logistic bottle neck of delivering energy/battaries to the troops in the field is somthing that we are dealing with today, it's not a new problem and there are ways to deal with it.

The modarn infantry man carry around 130 pounds of gear on each mission, I think that giving him the ability to carry almost twice the waight with a considerable reduction of fatigue (since the suit moves for you!) with greater speed is a great trade off to the added logistic problems.

Warder

[Steel21]

That's easy, get a guy that can bench 315lb (3 plates each side).

[Steel21]

So, the system weighs around 50lbs. The weight it allows the Soldier to carry is over 250lbs. All the power of the system is in the legs and the video claims the Soldier doesn't even feel the weight of the system (50lbs)

But what if that Soldier falls flat on his face. He now has 300lbs + on his back and no way of getting up if it's a significant load. The old exo-skeleton had arms, the one in the video was only a backpack with legs.

That's easy, make sure your soldier can bench over 300 lbs.

[MaNiC]

I know it's G4TV, but it's short and sweet nonetheless:

http://g4tv.com/videos/43954/Hulc-Exo-Skeleton--Laser-Avenger-Tech/

[Stormy]

Japanese scientists create 'Robocop' suit

Japanese scientists have created a power-assisted suit which could make users as strong as Robocop or Iron Man.

118049

The metal-and-plastic outfit boasts eight electric motors that amplify the strength of the wearer's arms and legs, as well as sensors that can detect movements and respond to commands through a voice-recognition system.



Professor Shigeki Toyama and his team developed the power-enhancing suit at the Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology and Mr Toyama plans to set up a company to start producing the futuristic outfit by the end of the year.


The suits can reduce the user’s physical effort by 62 per cent on average.



Industrial robots have long been common in Japan and heavy industries may decide that the suit would help ease any physical pain experienced by workers.



When bending knees the muscular activity is reduced by half, and the suit can also take most of the strain out of crouching.



Fifteen years in the making, the “robosuit” is due to hit the Japanese market in 2012 when it will initially retail for about one million yen (£8,100), a price tag its makers hope to halve if the device is mass-produced.



There are however currently no plans so far to sell the suits overseas.





@ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/7570786/Japanese-scientists-create-Robocop-suit.html

[my name again]

I think i can handle this box without the suit ;)

[Hyde]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfxcLwI1ops

[randir14]

Last time I saw a video about that suit it was slow moving and could only carry 50 pounds. The U.S. is already developing a better one: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/04/06/hulc-exoskeleton.html

[vinny_121_ND]

excellent. I'll buy one to so I can bench press 350 pounds at the gym to impress the ladies.

[BlackhawkCY]

seems to me that the Japanese suit tends to be at very early stages, or pointless, since the guy is still holding the box with his hands hence the weight cannot be more than what he can hold on to...

[tomahawk6]

The Army is going to begin field testing of HULC. Below is a video of the concept.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVS8C8QUh1A

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/08/universal-load-carrier-081410w/

Human Universal Load Carrier ready for tests

Lance M. Bacon - Staff writer
Posted : Sunday Aug 15, 2010 11:42:32 EDT

Aside from the seriously cool acronym it boasts, Lockheed Martin’s Human Universal Load Carrier looks to revolutionize combat operations and medical care on the battlefield. Lockheed spokeswoman Heather Kelly said the exoskeleton suit represents the next-generation of technology being tested to help manage a soldier’s load. What you need to know:

• Easy to use. The untethered suit is battery powered and has an onboard microcomputer and hydraulically driven titanium legs configured to match the soldier’s movements. There are no remote-control inputs — it moves with you.

• Heavy lift. The exoskeleton transfers up to 200 pounds of weight off the soldier and onto the robotic legs. This enables a soldier to carry weaponry, supplies, ammo or wounded comrades for extended periods of time.

• All-terrain. The HULC is designed to operate in harsh environments and be able to move when and how a solider needs to move. Soldiers can walk, run, kneel, do squats and even crawl while wearing the gear.

• Ready for tests. The second phase of testing at the Army’s Natick Soldier Systems Center will begin by year’s end. Biomechanical testing will measure energy expended by the user, and lab tests will assess how quickly users learn to use the system. This analysis will last eight weeks. Several additional units will enter field trials early next year.

• Like “super heroes.” It turns out HULC is not alone. Raytheon has an exoskeleton project called the XOS. According to the official website, the combination of sensors, actuators and controllers “is reminiscent of super heroes depicted in comic books and Hollywood movies.”

[PetrolClock]

robocop

USA strong 1111 !!!!!!!

[GorkoSan]

wow, so... basically, you can go extremely strong without going rage green? way to go LM...

[Blackmagic94]

Need to make an arm adapter for it to carry a M2 for dismounted ops, now that would scare the crap out of the hadji

[JJC]

When will such technology be in actual use?

[MountainWarrior]

I will like to welcome our robotic overlords!!!!

[KillerBD]

unit costs? upkeep? spare-parts? Procurement? durability? reliability?

Would suck if this thing broke-down, or sustained damage in the field... not to mention how it would fair with awkward movements and stances... Doesn't seem ideal to be wearing if your trying to lay down in the ****e position, or leaning around a corner in an awkward position...

But otherwise yeah, cute idea... ;)

better solution, field lighter equipment, instead of just adding more overall equipment to the individual soldier. :P

[pfc_billings]

All that is left now is to make Space Marine type suits that are bullet proof and of course with air conditioning :)

[Andreas]

Lighter caseless ammo with increased lethality and lighter body armor is a better way to go in my book..

Im seeing where this will go, politicians and higher up will go "oh great, each solider weighs 250kg, and can carry all he needs for sustained combat operations, no need for expensive resuply logistics.. great idea!"
And the soliders in the field will find a whole new world of problems when these systems fail at the worst possible moment...

That being said, its pretty clever..

[Flecktarn92]

is it just me or does every post with a video in it keep getting screwed up because of the adds?

[Clear_blues]

Anyone else up for invading Pandora now?

[Albatross]

I remember reading about this project when I was at drum........................12 years ago. I will believe it when I see it, and they had the exact same set up then.

[3rdMillhouse]

The mobility of this exoskelleton is very limited, I'll just sit here and wait for artificial muscular fibers made of carbon nanotubes..

[Internet Helicopter]

So you can basically have a human mule in your squad to dump equipment on. At least they're a bit more reliable than an animal.

[Gus]

Random thoughts...

In a very short time after this is deployed to the field basic infantry load-out will creep up until the fatigue reduction for the soldier will be nullified.

Has there been any talk of industrial or public safety applications? I can actually see more use for it there than for the military since warehouse workers don't have to dive for cover at the sound of gunfire or run flat out over broken terrain.

As a firefighter myself I want one of these tomorrow! It seems ideal for firefighting considering the heavy loads carried, HIGH fatigue levels and slower, methodical, movements compared to a soldier in combat.

And what about paraplegics and amputees?

If the motion control software lives up to the hype in this demo then we are looking at Avatar style battle suits within 10 years (3 but the R&D will be drug out for another 7).

[Hildemel]

I don't want to know how much maintenance would have to go into those things.... would be very useful, especially for Infantry guys who otherwise only last 5-10 years before their knees can't handle loads anymore.

[Jippo]

better solution, field lighter equipment, instead of just adding more overall equipment to the individual soldier. :P

There will be discussions about this in the future.

And in the past too: French knights vs. English longbowmen.

[James]

unit costs? upkeep? spare-parts? Procurement? durability? reliability?

Would suck if this thing broke-down, or sustained damage in the field... not to mention how it would fair with awkward movements and stances... Doesn't seem ideal to be wearing if your trying to lay down in the ****e position, or leaning around a corner in an awkward position...

...hence the further testing. :cantbeli:

[tomahawk6]

Another video. Cost may run around $11,000 per unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_qR8zCLDc&feature (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_qR8zCLDc&feature)

[Gus]

This video makes it look a little more capable, but I still have my doubts.

[deathil93]

Need to make an arm adapter for it to carry a M2 for dismounted ops, now that would scare the crap out of the hadji
Minigun>M2 p-)

I prefer those robotic remote controled soldiers you see in the movie Surrogates, now that would be awesome.

BTW, when do they expect to start fielding it for standart use? 2020s?

[Guam_Guy]

Why not integrate the entire unit into a suit of armor? This could bring back the two categories of heavy infantry and light infantry. The unit(s) leader can than choose which type of infantry is best suited to a situation.

lol reminds me of Fallout's power armor concept.

[AlexMartin2]

Why not integrate the entire unit into a suit of armor? This could bring back the two categories of heavy infantry and light infantry. The unit(s) leader can than choose which type of infantry is best suited to a situation.
How about to put men inside APC instead? :) They are in - heavy infantry, they are out - light infantry. And you dont need to carry hundreds of pounds of batteries for these armor suits.

[Riflewizard]

maybe these'll be good in 100 yers... but by then UAVs with lasers will be roaming the battlefield rendering humans pointless, the machines will rise!!

it'll be like the game Total Annihilation if you've ever seen it....

but seriously, doesn't look too useful, interesting development of technology, but civilian uses do sound more reasonable


Lol, infantry in bigass suits, terrible terrible idea.

[Guam_Guy]

Yeah to much sci fi to work in real life. I wonder if technology is ever going to make the infantry obsolete. I doubt it.
What ever happen to the MULE? The little robot cart that carried all the heavy gear.

[Lasse]

I can see a use for it, which is for dismount LRRPs. Other people don't need that much gear and\or can be resupplied. But I would like to see a QR function which would allow you to walk straight out of it without opening straps etc.

[Chairborne Ranger]

When the Bugs attack, we'll be ready.. woot


A new second-generation exoskeleton robotic suit developed for the military – and deemed the closest thing to a real-life Iron Man costume – was unveiled on Monday during a demonstration with Paramount Home Entertainment.
The new robotic suit called Exoskeleton (XOS 2) – released by Raytheon Company – is lighter, faster and stronger than its predecessor, yet it uses 50 percent less power (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39386045/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/#). Its enhanced design also means that it is more resistant to the environment.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39386045/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/

[Lawndart]

I pity the fool who will one day receive the world's 1st hydraulically boosted kick in the nuts.

[CommonMan]

Interesting, I wonder how they will intigrate this with other future systems.

[Pariel]

The release coincides with release of Marvel Studios' Iron Man 2 (http://www.technewsdaily.com/iron-man-technology-has-real-life-analogs-0517/)on Blu-ray (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39386045/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/#) and DVD.


I doubt that this is a coincidence.

[Alex G]

I believe that one day every man and women out there will be able to carry their own Vulcan into the battle!

[80 EAN]

http://www.youtube.com/v/-UpxsrlLbpU

[camerashy]

Interesting, I wonder how they will intigrate this with other future systems.
No doubt there are some that want it...but I don't see it happening in our lifetime. Would it make financial sense to make more efficient the gear we carry? I can definitely see this suit having specific applications though.

[RAD72]

How long before battlemechs become a reality?

[paulmessen]

I doubt that this will happen on a large scale in this century. The cost is way to high for the benefits. The US would rather spend the money on fighta jetz to fight China, as well as more nuclear powered ships. Honestly I'd rather see the money put towards better body armor, more armored humvees, and more bday gifts(aka drones) for the taliban.

[Kilgor]

Unless there is a major breakthrough in battery or power pack technology, the remote version won't really be feasible.

The tethered version does make a lot of sense for logistics where a storeroom or vehicle is nearby for power sources.

[khalifah]

one step closer to Heinlins dream ;)

[Sootan]

one step closer to Heinlins dream ;)
Heinlin's dream? Be careful with what you wish for ;)

[khalifah]

touche' ;)

[Ambassador]

I think this armor can begin working in good synergy with combined fuel cell + wireless energy supply techniques some day very soon. The cost might still be prohibitive though.

[khalifah]

^you opened up a whole can of ideas in my head.

Considering its realative unwieldiness, how would it be implimnted into the combat arms? One could consider it a 1 man tank, considering its got to balance protection, power, and sensory. So then, like tanks, we may have a variety of "suits" depending on their specialty. Heavy weapons (how heavy, who knows?), close combat(extra senses?), or even heavy lifting. Still though, we will probably have a better chance of seeing troops with nanomachines than Astartes type troops. ;)

[paulmessen]

Well, its about time to start working on those plasma rifles and sentinel beams!

[Reaper171]

^you opened up a whole can of ideas in my head.

Considering its realative unwieldiness, how would it be implimnted into the combat arms? One could consider it a 1 man tank, considering its got to balance protection, power, and sensory. So then, like tanks, we may have a variety of "suits" depending on their specialty. Heavy weapons (how heavy, who knows?), close combat(extra senses?), or even heavy lifting. Still though, we will probably have a better chance of seeing troops with nanomachines than Astartes type troops. ;)

Not really a 1 man tank... more along the lines of "Heavy Infantry". Doubt you'd see it with anything larger then a .50, but imagine that, a squad of these things each carrying around a .50 like its an M4, pumping heavy fire support.
Hmm .50 with a 6 shot m203... oh man... "drive me closer I want to use my sword!"

[Stormy]

Interesting. There was an earlier version of this shown on the media in 2008-2009 too.

[pocoloco]

And this was showcased with with Paramount Home Entertainment because of?

[khalifah]

Not really a 1 man tank... more along the lines of "Heavy Infantry". Doubt you'd see it with anything larger then a .50, but imagine that, a squad of these things each carrying around a .50 like its an M4, pumping heavy fire support.
Hmm .50 with a 6 shot m203... oh man... "drive me closer I want to use my sword!"

Nice, though id just prefer them to design some Terminator Armor, with a (storm)bolt thrower, and a powerfist ;)

but seriously, the powerpack/battery of the suit needs to be more powerful to handle this wargear for X long, under X conditions. I never took engineering so correct me if im wrong, but if you have a battery to power a machine you got to make sure you have enough power, now if you have a bigger/heavier machine you need a bigger source of energy. Hence why i relate power armor troops to tanks.

[Sootan]

Nice, though id just prefer them to design some Terminator Armor, with a (storm)bolt thrower, and a powerfist ;)

but seriously, the powerpack/battery of the suit needs to be more powerful to handle this wargear for X long, under X conditions. I never took engineering so correct me if im wrong, but if you have a battery to power a machine you got to make sure you have enough power, now if you have a bigger/heavier machine you need a bigger source of energy. Hence why i relate power armor troops to tanks.
When we have advanced enough tech to produce portable powerpack/powerplant that powerful and versatile (enough to provide power and agility for a 300 kg armor suit + weapons for at least 48 hours, I'd say), humanoid exoskeleton would be the least of its uses.

[Reaper171]

Hmm I'm sure they could make this smaller and use a smaller pellet... heh heh heh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator

[Sven Dufva]

If it aint MJOLNIR, it aint a real Exo skeleton.

[khalifah]

If it aint MJOLNIR, it aint a real Exo skeleton.

son, you have lot to learn about WH40K power armor (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_armor). ;)

[pocoloco]

So will this suit have a "waste processing", what happens when the wearer needs to take, eg. a dump in a middle of fight? And can they change the batteries on the run by themselves and so on. Many complications still looming over the project :)

[Alex G]

Only big problem right now seems to be the battery. But i think that this problem will be solved pretty soon as car production has the same problem with new generations of electro cars. They will solve it, I hope.

[brainplay]

Kinda surprised it's taken this long. The Japanese already have an exo-skeleton that was used to assist a guy with an attempt to scale mount Breithorn in Switzerland with a paralyzed guy attached.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/14231181/from/RS.3/

137827

[Alfacentori]

I can't look at this thing without thinking about the 'Power Loader' out of the movie Aliens, especially as one of the pics shows it loading missiles, just as it did in the film
137828

Alfa

[Chaosmarine1]

Today Ironman, tomorrow Reaver Titans???! :D

http://www.darkestheresy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/reavermcpf10.jpg

[nullterm]

one step closer to Heinlins dream ;)

Haldeman's was cooler.

[Astaran]

It's amazing to see how Sci-Fi becomes reality. Thanks for the post

[crazyman]

Halo/Starship Troopers (I love that book) aside, it looks more like the immediate future of the system would be more akin to a heavy lifting, forklift replacement versus what we're all fantasizing about. The power lifter from "Aliens" perhaps? as everyones' noted, power is a big issue so using this to quickly load heavy equipment for movement forward. Being artillery, I can imagine pulling my ammo trucks up to a load point and having a couple guys with these on loading 105 rounds by the dozen into the back of my vehicles so we can quickly move back to the firing point. Same would go for re-supply of food, water, etc etc etc.

[kamaz]

this would be perfect for urban combat. You can strap on armor plates on that thing, put a vulcan cannon and have a walking terminator, going around providing suppressing fire and taking out entrenched enemy positions. Even if the battery is good for 4-5 hours, these things will revolutionize warfare in the next 20 years.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Raytheon Company making Exoskeleton (XOS 2) (http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/technology/rtn08_exoskeleton/) and Lockheed Martin making the HULC (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/hulc/index.html)

I wonder how they compare? Is this for some government RFP?

A company called Activelink is (or was) developing a Dual Arm Power Amplification Robot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYFDcQhHeSY&feature=player_embedded

http://psuf.panasonic.co.jp/alc/en/technologies/
http://psuf.panasonic.co.jp/alc/en/index.html
http://psuf.panasonic.co.jp/alc/technologies/powerloader.wmv

http://pinktentacle.com/2009/09/power-loader-exoskeleton-suit/

So many fictional power suits seen it movies and other media it's hard to keep track.
The power loader from Aliens could maybe be considered the archetype.



this would be perfect for urban combat. You can strap on armor plates on that thing, put a vulcan cannon and have a walking terminator, going around providing suppressing fire and taking out entrenched enemy positions. Even if the battery is good for 4-5 hours, these things will revolutionize warfare in the next 20 years.

Brings to mind the unit in District 9

[Chairborne Ranger]

this would be perfect for urban combat. You can strap on armor plates on that thing, put a vulcan cannon and have a walking terminator, going around providing suppressing fire and taking out entrenched enemy positions. Even if the battery is good for 4-5 hours, these things will revolutionize warfare in the next 20 years.

I would think that, as powerful as a heavily armed powered suit would be, that it would still need support from regular, unassisted, grunts. Otherwise it would be as vulnerable as tanks can be against entrenched infantry armed with AT weapons.

[Ratamacue]

I would think that, as powerful as a heavily armed powered suit would be, that it would still need support from regular, unassisted, grunts. Otherwise it would be as vulnerable as tanks can be against entrenched infantry armed with AT weapons.More than that, the added logistical footprint of fuel, parts, and necessary maintenance for exoskeletons would likely be such that trying to field a sufficient number to completely replace regular grunts would be impossible in the foreseeable future. I'd most likely see them as a sort of heavy weapon (akin to heavy machineguns, mortars, ATGMs, etc.) to be attached as necessary to "ordinary" line units.


The power loader from Aliens could maybe be considered the archetype.Personally, I think that the best way for the technology to mature may be to start off with larger machines for industrial-type purposes, for both military and civilian use. From there, start the miniaturization process to make it small enough for an individual infantryman to utilize practically, along with developing better and more efficient power sources so it doesn't die after 15 minutes of intense use.

[kamaz]

I can definitely see its use in dense urban combat (maintenance crews and all). We are talking about growing pains that come with every new technology. Early tanks suffered from same limitations, so did early planes and bombers. Battery technology keeps improving every year and so do robotics. This is a very new program, lets see what happens in 10-15 years time, I think this technology will revolutionize the battlefield.

imagine a dense urban sprawl, rooftop snipers, alleyways with IEDs, basements packed with gunmen, basically Fallujah 2004. You send a pack of fully armored HULCs with some infantry support, let the Hulcs go into buildings and clean out the opposition, they are much lighter than vehicles and can fit through doors. I'm guessing that the overall frame will keep getting smaller and stronger so it really will become a functional exo skeleton.

I think this will revolutionize warfare the same way airplanes revolutionized war in early 20th century.

[-Fighter-]

I can see some application in SWAT like operations. Heavy armor from head to toe = invincible to a criminal with a simple firearm.

[Aor]

Not really a 1 man tank... more along the lines of "Heavy Infantry". Doubt you'd see it with anything larger then a .50, but imagine that, a squad of these things each carrying around a .50 like its an M4, pumping heavy fire support.
Hmm .50 with a 6 shot m203... oh man... "drive me closer I want to use my sword!"

Think about it; armor to stop rifle rounds and at the same time the ability to carry a HMG or multiple AT rounds. That would be a clear revolution in warfare.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

I think it would be handy having a soldier in a device heavy enough to breach doors and walls.
Add little cargo capacity ... lot's of ideas.

[Xaito]

I remember seeing the demo of the last suit - the most interesting thing about it for me is that they actually can move autonomously as well.
I can imagine a use for that in dangerous situations - put a gun on it, step out of it and you've got yourself a sentry gun.

[Titani]

That is amazing, in one decade or so we'll see "Exo Squad" become real.

[LoboCanada]

That is amazing, in one decade or so we'll see "Exo Squad" become real.

I doubt that. I can see these being used heavily on Aircraft Carriers. Make more space on a flightdeck by replacing lift equipment with just one guy in a suit lifting a missile, might reduce the number of sailors needed. on the ship itself.

I like the connection to Ironman. I'm sure Rayethon would love to sneak some footage of the EXO 2 into Ironman 3.

[BlackWarder]

The way I see it this is the beginning of the Armored Infantry Age in military history, In 10 years time we will start seeing some sort of power armor (I'm using the term loosely) being deployed in modern militarise, in 20 years it will be in wide uses and in 30 years it will be the mainstay of modern armies.

An exoskeleton suit will offer the wearer much more than mere armor plating, it will offer enhanced mobility, enhanced range and enhanced situational awareness, each infantry men will have an army of unmanned systems under it's command managed by advance C&C AI giving him the ability to monitor and intercept enemy activities in a much larger radius than we think is possible, A future company of Armored Infantry will be able to control an area that a present day battalion or even brigade control.

Considering the fact that the number of young people is dwindling will cause the powers that be to find ways to make each soldier more deadly and affective .

Warder

[Xaito]

The way I see it this is the beginning of the Armored Infantry Age in military history, In 10 years time we will start seeing some sort of power armor (I'm using the term loosely) being deployed in modern militarise, in 20 years it will be in wide uses and in 30 years it will be the mainstay of modern armies.

An exoskeleton suit will offer the wearer much more than mere armor plating, it will offer enhanced mobility, enhanced range and enhanced situational awareness, each infantry men will have an army of unmanned systems under it's command managed by advance C&C AI giving him the ability to monitor and intercept enemy activities in a much larger radius than we think is possible, A future company of Armored Infantry will be able to control an area that a present day battalion or even brigade control.

Considering the fact that the number of young people is dwindling will cause the powers that be to find ways to make each soldier more deadly and affective .

Warder

20 years ago people predicted there'd be AI's soon... they're kinda quiet these days ;)

[BlackWarder]

20 years ago people predicted there'd be AI's soon... they're kinda quiet these days ;)

They predicted (http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/01/reviewing-kurzweil-predictions-from.html) much more than that and they still talk (http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/01/ray-kurzweil-responds-to-issue-of.html).
The also talk in here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QROMNOEI3PQ)

Warder

[eskachig]

I honestly don't see batteries being able to handle that load any time soon. But what about a miniature diesel engine?

But the design and know how are definitely progressing, it's a beautiful thing to see.

[Moledet]

I wonder whether the body can create enough electrical current to recharge the battery in real time. You don't need the muscles anyway with this thing, might as well use them for something.

[3rdMillhouse]

I wonder whether the body can create enough electrical current to recharge the battery in real time. You don't need the muscles anyway with this thing, might as well use them for something.

Well, there's this:

http://io9.com/5195023/batteries-that-feed-on-blood

[MichaelF]

Battery packs are only one solution DARPA is looking into. The current favorite is a microturbine powerpack, running on either diesel or compressed gas. Battery packs will most likely power the initial production run, as these will be destined for logistics and maintenance/technical units that need to shift heavy objects (missiles, tracks, roadwheels, etc).

[Sootan]

20 years ago people predicted there'd be AI's soon... they're kinda quiet these days ;)
I'm still waiting for the mass-produced flying cars :)

[IconOfEvi]

son, you have lot to learn about WH40K power armor (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_armor). ;)

Silly silly young one...Poor misguided soul. So sad he thought Mojlinor was as good as it could get.

I call dibs on the first set of Terminator armor! p-)

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/ff/IronWarriorsCombat.jpg





Of course, one wonders when it goes the other way and when flesh will start merging with machines

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/9/94/Obliterator.jpg

[khalifah]

and then theres Dreadnaughts!, oh lawdy!...
................

To bring back this thread, do you all suppose these suits are the new tanks?

Now, i dont meen it in the sense that a platoon of these guys would replace tanks (at least anytime in our careers) but i think they are going to be implimented in a minor role (logistical...lifting things)...Its going to take a war for people to really explore the capabilities of a weapons platform like this( like the tank in ww1), and thus begins the centuries worth of progressivly more advanced suits( like the history of the tank).

[Deus257]

I can see these in a more logistical role, urban combat maybe, unless they can make more compact, maneuverable and have the added armor I can see it as a special forces type thing Kinda like that new video game "Vanquish". This reminds me of a two shows I saw once, both were japanese cartoons called Blue Gender and Armored Trooper Votoms, I don't remember much only that the mech's had wheels and scooted around the battlefield instead of running, I thought it was pretty neat and somewhat practical.

[Alex G]

This reminds me of a two shows I saw once, both were japanese cartoons called Blue Gender and Armored Trooper Votoms, I don't remember much only that the mech's had wheels and scooted around the battlefield instead of running, I thought it was pretty neat and somewhat practical.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3XI891j-f8&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aWry3bXc_A

Dont know if any of those are realistic.

[Alex G]

It seems that russian are developing something too. "Боец - 21" - any idea what it is and if this ever be made?

[Moledet]

It seems that russian are developing something too. "Боец - 21" - any idea what it is and if this ever be made?
All western armies work on exo-skeletons, that includes the IDF. The US is way ahead.

[Deus257]

Dont know if any of those are realistic.

Were years behind technologically to have anything similar to those. But the movement via wheels seems practical, I mean honestly why have a slow lumbering giant robot or mech suit walking around being an easy target when you could have one that scoots around the battlefield making it a hard to hit target.

[BloodyTalon]

Dont know if any of those are realistic.
The closest I've seen from anime that's realistic scale-wise has been Legend of Galactic Heroes. They don't have giant robots but instead they have specially designed powered armor meant for the most elite soldiers in the series. It's plausible...until they decide to use battle axes and crossbows instead of firearms. Then its ridiculous (but still epic).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFAVzfX-U_s

On that note I'm surprised LOGH isn't mentioned here whenever anime is brought up.

[Alex G]

On that note I'm surprised LOGH isn't mentioned here whenever anime is brought up.

I only watched Tytania, which is ripoff of LOGH and everybody is saying that LOGH is 100X better, but i dont plan on watching it anymore as i kinda stopped watching animes(as they mostly make total crap atm that concentrate on nudity instead of story).

[Astaran]

and then theres Dreadnaughts!, oh lawdy!...
................

To bring back this thread, do you all suppose these suits are the new tanks?

Now, i dont meen it in the sense that a platoon of these guys would replace tanks (at least anytime in our careers) but i think they are going to be implimented in a minor role (logistical...lifting things)...Its going to take a war for people to really explore the capabilities of a weapons platform like this( like the tank in ww1), and thus begins the centuries worth of progressivly more advanced suits( like the history of the tank).

I don't think these exo-suits will replace tanks (not even in the distant future). It's more like new class of infantry: today you have light infantry, mech. infantry or paratroopers and then you will have an additional "heavy infantry" either as an entire own branch in the military or in a support function within the existing infantry formations (like the "heavy weapon dudes" of the company). To replace tanks these suits need a heavier armor with more speed and firepower and by the dimensions of this weapon systems you would leave to height of a human body and reach "BattleMech" levels. Not that a BattleMech would be bad, though ;)

So basically we have two fields of use for these suits:

1) as a heavy lifter in a non-combatant role (would also be awesome for civilian use -> fire departments surly get a hard on these suits)
2) with attached armor plates and some other modifications as a new class of heavy infantry

[IDF_TANKER]

All western armies work on exo-skeletons, that includes the IDF. The US is way ahead.

Have any link/info?

[BlackWarder]

They train the worriors of the 2030-2040 right now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR-lmtBryl0&feature=player_embedded#!

Warder

[Themistocles]

i'll take two.

[brainplay]

The closest I've seen from anime that's realistic scale-wise has been Legend of Galactic Heroes.

You should probably read Appleseed by Masamune Shirow. They have exoskeletons of various sizes which are donned and used fairly realistically. Weight and capabilities are frequently brought up. The largest suits have the users arms protruding (although armored) through the chest where they are used to direct the exoskeleton's arms although the most common stuff is human sized although much bulkier than most anime's thin form fitting 15th century looking stuff.

[Flamming_Python]

Don't know what I think of them to be honest - can't go ****e in one, hard to take cover... basically they would have to uparmour it in order to give the soldier any degree of protection and survivability. Either that or they would have to stand back a fair distance away and be limited to providing long-range support fire with their heavy weapons.

[khalifah]

^thats an interesting assesment, going back to tanks, they have (over the years) become more 'streamlined'(sloped armor) for lack of a better word to deflect shots and prevent "shot traps"(?).

With that said, would a "suited"man face the same dangers as tanks?
Clearly yes, but maybe on different levels, and for different kinds of suits. Say for example a suit fighting in the street, fully armored, armed, and powered. Except the designs make for certain areas of the armor less protected than others. So, the suit is getting shot at with small arms, the bullets hit and deflect off the armor, making the wearer thank god for engineers. Till suddenly one bullet deflects off his armor in such a way that it deflects into the base of his chin/neck ,( where the armor is clearly less than that on the face) thus killing the soldier. (now lets imagine a suit getting shot at by RPGs!)

The point im getting at is, considering the shape of a human standing,crouching,etc. is there any solution (today)that can solve the problem of shot traps? ( outside the idea of adding more armor, which is not a long term solution at all)
...........................................................

[my name again]

Maybe they could cover the joints or weakspots with a kevlarlike material . I think they wouldnt need even that much protection since the bullet has lost much of its energy by bouncing off most likely.

[khalifah]

perhaps in the future suits would be considered in 4 general models, Close quarters, general use, heavy weapons, and heavy lift.

The close quarter one would probably adress those issues i mentioned about shot traps
The general use would be just that, a balance of power/armor/ and sensory.
heavy weapons clearly needs to account for the added weight of their weapon(Ex. Ma-Duces/or/40mm GLs, etc.), as well as all the extra ammo they will have to carry. Therefore they would be heavier, yet they might have to sacrifice armor so its not too much of a burdon for the power source.
heavy lift would be just that, im sure everyone has seen Aliens;)

Realistically, i still think the development of these suits is gonna go the way of the tank. Many designs and specialties throughout the decades, but eventually there technology will allow for fewer differences in designs, making them like modern MTBs...or Main Battle Suits(MBS) ;)

[HellToupee]

Just don't see the point of them for combat outside of anime. Keep slapping on weapons and armor to make up for its bulky clumsiness and you just wind up with a humongous mecha or atleast just a very expensive super complicated battle suit some peasant with a rpg can punch a hole through.

[BlackWarder]

Just don't see the point of them for combat outside of anime. Keep slapping on weapons and armor to make up for its bulky clumsiness and you just wind up with a humongous mecha or atleast just a very expensive super complicated battle suit some peasant with a rpg can punch a hole through.

That because what you think as amored infantry and what weapon designers think about are totaly different.

What good will it do to build somthing that can't servive? and in today battle fields if you can see it you can kill it, you will never be able to armor the suit enough to metter against high level threats.

Most people in this thread think that an armored suit will focused on heavier weapon loads and heavier armor but I disagree. Granted it will offer better protection and weapon loads than current infantry loads offer but the biggest advantage the suit will offer will be greater mobility, situational awareness and "external Hardware".

Just on Mobility you can watch the HULC video, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1CeBOWm67A) or the Berkeley Bionics Human Exoskeleton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdK2y3lphmE&feature=related)

Those are first gen systems.

Situational awareness is the most critical thing for a solder on a battle field the better you are informed on what is happening around you the better you can preform, we already see these systems entering the field but the biggest hurdle is weight but coupled with an Exoskeleton not only does the weight is not such an issue but you can also integrate more sophisticated sensors.

And as for the "external hardware" stuff, we currently seeing the beginning of are of robotic war fighters, starting from UAVs through land robots and in the coming years the reliance on robotic minions will only grow. Integrating Robotic minions will allow 1 soldier to control more area than it can now,for example a 4 men squad will be able to monitor and interdict enemy movement on a 1 mile radius or more (on open terrain) by using a variety of robots and UAVs.
The same 4 men squad could also use those robots to get a complete scan of a residential building and neutralize any threat using smart ammunition (be it from their own weapons or armed robots) and do it all fast.

Most of what I describe won't come into reality in the next decade but this is where things are heading ATM and those are the capabilities that militarise want and defence contractor are working on.

On the topic of the Raytheon XOS 2, I think that in 5 years the logistic variant will be introduced to Carriers and ground bases but I think that they are very optimistic when they think that a combat variant will be fielded 3 years later.

Warder

[HellToupee]

Most people in this thread think that an armored suit will focused on heavier weapon loads and heavier armor but I disagree. Granted it will offer better protection and weapon loads than current infantry loads offer but the biggest advantage the suit will offer will be greater mobility, situational awareness and "external Hardware".

Not really, not until they invent some wounderful new power source/storage so it doesnt run out of juice in an hour, nor will they ever be remotely as efficient or fast as wheeled transport. Situational awareness as little to do with an exo suit its entirely separate technology. i would think the bulk of the suit would also have less mobility in a built up area or working with armor aka cramming into an IFV.

And the thing is if it does not bring heavier weaponry or protection whos going to spend so much $$$ on allowing a soldier to carry more stuff and the additional supply chain just to keep the things operating when they have trouble supplying them body armor.

[BlackWarder]

Not really, not until they invent some wounderful new power source/storage so it doesnt run out of juice in an hour, nor will they ever be remotely as efficient or fast as wheeled transport. Situational awareness as little to do with an exo suit its entirely separate technology. i would think the bulk of the suit would also have less mobility in a built up area or working with armor aka cramming into an IFV.

And the thing is if it does not bring heavier weaponry or protection whos going to spend so much $$$ on allowing a soldier to carry more stuff and the additional supply chain just to keep the things operating when they have trouble supplying them body armor.

Power is an engineering problem, i.e it can be solved with enough time and money it does not require some thoratical break through and you would be surprised how fast soldiers in exso-suits will be able to move, according to one bio-mechanic researcher in my uni you could reach 40-60 kph on open terrain for sustianable periods of time, the key here is for the suit A.I to be smart enough to walk "alone" leaving the soldier only to steer.

I'm talking from personal experiance and my "predictions" are for 15-30 years away, as I've said before we will start seeing exo-suits in military service only by the end of the decade and they won't be any where near the ideal infantry combat suit but it's a start.

Good night all, I'm off to bed.

Warder

[MaDuce]

and then theres Dreadnaughts!, oh lawdy!...
................

To bring back this thread, do you all suppose these suits are the new tanks?

Now, i dont meen it in the sense that a platoon of these guys would replace tanks (at least anytime in our careers) but i think they are going to be implimented in a minor role (logistical...lifting things)...Its going to take a war for people to really explore the capabilities of a weapons platform like this( like the tank in ww1), and thus begins the centuries worth of progressivly more advanced suits( like the history of the tank).

Dreads would be a good way to keep disabled soldiers in the fight.
http://warhammer.hardwired.hu/gallery/wh40k/40k_011.jpg

[HellToupee]

Power is an engineering problem, i.e it can be solved with enough time and money it does not require some thoratical break through and you would be surprised how fast soldiers in exso-suits will be able to move, according to one bio-mechanic researcher in my uni you could reach 40-60 kph on open terrain for sustianable periods of time, the key here is for the suit A.I to be smart enough to walk "alone" leaving the soldier only to steer.

Actually power does require some theoretical brake through if you want a better solution than the engineering one which is pile on more batteries/fuel cells like a greater energy density. Also for movement, you have to account for the fact with an exo skeleton the soldier has to match movements with the machinery even if hes not putting effort into it.



I'm talking from personal experiance and my "predictions" are for 15-30 years away, as I've said before we will start seeing exo-suits in military service only by the end of the decade and they won't be any where near the ideal infantry combat suit but it's a start.

Good night all, I'm off to bed.

Warder

Better be some advance in technology, since any advancements in stuff like power sources would still be better applied to a simple wheeled platform that only has to roll aka a bike than trying to recreate the functions of legs. Even in most sci fi they look impractical :P

[IconOfEvi]

Dreads would be a good way to keep disabled soldiers in the fight.


Will Petraus be our next Bjorn the Fel-Handed ;)?

[khalifah]

Will Petraus be our next Bjorn the Fel-Handed ;)?

nonsense, well replace his body with enough tech, it'll make an Iron Father jelious ;)
...............

[BloodyTalon]

You guys have it all wrong! Gen. Petraeus changed how the Army operates, including writing his own Codex Astartes. Clearly that makes him Roboute Guilliman.

[IconOfEvi]

So basically Gen Petraus will either die or end up in some situation where he is gone for millenia, but hinted to return at some point?

Oh and if we use too much tech, that makes Petraus the father of the Adeptus Mechanicus. I suggest Tommy Franks for that ;).

Petraus would probably be leader of my favorite, the Alpha Legion

[BloodyTalon]

So basically Gen Petraus will either die or end up in some situation where he is gone for millenia, but hinted to return at some point?

Oh and if we use too much tech, that makes Petraus the father of the Adeptus Mechanicus. I suggest Tommy Franks for that ;).

Petraus would probably be leader of my favorite, the Alpha Legion
Nah, Alpharius would have to be someone with a Special Forces background, like General McChrystal. Heck, he already has the motivation to turn to Chaos. p-)

Also, my brigade = the White Scars. I'm gonna suggest to the CO that we outfit everyone attack bikes.
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4739/100px79ibctssi.jpg
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8484/logowhitescars.gif

[IconOfEvi]

Excellent idea sir!

Im wondering who would be the Word Bearers though :|?? US Chaplain services?

[khalifah]

^nope, Chaplains are Chaplains, thus they wear Black armor, adorn with red white and blue flags/eagles,A skull shaped helmet, and a Kris in the shape of a bald eagle. ;)

@BloodyTalon, cool idea. Though you should also thinking about getting a mongol moustache :p

[IconOfEvi]

But we need Dark Apostles!

Seriously, if our chaplains had staffs like that irl...that would be awesome.

Next up...World Eaters. Hmmmm...General Patton's Army :D?

[fish_b]

i think people here are already limiting the capabilaties of this piece of hardware. Please keep in mind that most gouvernment these days are desperate for more advanced energy storage . Meaning longer lasting smaller more powerfull batteries. This coupled with the obvious almost constant advances in computer power light weight materials design etc. means that it won't take 50 or 60 years to see these things developed . Especially if they can manage to improve the power for these things.

I mean we could see them in use in the next 20 years for all we know. It is all a matter of how fast they can solve the power thing.

I mean developing this thing o provide better mobility is not such a major problem it can be done even today with enough work. It's making it feasable in and worth while in any sort of way that is a major setback.

In order to reduce power consumption they have to reduce the number of mechanisms that have to be powered , this in termn means less mobilatty then they could achieve.

It's all a balancing act. Take a little from here give a little there...

[khalifah]

i think people here are already limiting the capabilaties of this piece of hardware. Please keep in mind that most gouvernment these days are desperate for more advanced energy storage . Meaning longer lasting smaller more powerfull batteries. This coupled with the obvious almost constant advances in computer power light weight materials design etc. means that it won't take 50 or 60 years to see these things developed . Especially if they can manage to improve the power for these things.

I mean we could see them in use in the next 20 years for all we know. It is all a matter of how fast they can solve the power thing.

I mean developing this thing o provide better mobility is not such a major problem it can be done even today with enough work. It's making it feasable in and worth while in any sort of way that is a major setback.

In order to reduce power consumption they have to reduce the number of mechanisms that have to be powered , this in termn means less mobilatty then they could achieve.

It's all a balancing act. Take a little from here give a little there...

Its all a matter of time IMO, whether it be this decade or the next, the suits are gonna be around in our lifetime, the question is, is any of us gonna be able to wear them? ;)
...........................

[MichaelF]

The only reason the microturbine power pack isn't designed yet is because the production model of the suit (as opposed to the two experimental models we've seen) isn't anywhere close to being designed. Without the data on what the real suit will require, it's pointless to develop a power pack that might be incompatible (useless or overbuilt) with the end product.

The whole "they'll need a breakthrough in batteries or fuel cells" issue is a red herring. The technology is already present, it's just that the suit isn't at the point where those items get plugged in (jets don't get their engines before the aeroframe is designed, because too many variables are still up in the air).

[Alex G]

The only reason the microturbine power pack isn't designed yet is because the production model of the suit (as opposed to the two experimental models we've seen) isn't anywhere close to being designed. Without the data on what the real suit will require, it's pointless to develop a power pack that might be incompatible (useless or overbuilt) with the end product.

The whole "they'll need a breakthrough in batteries or fuel cells" issue is a red herring. The technology is already present, it's just that the suit isn't at the point where those items get plugged in (jets don't get their engines before the aeroframe is designed, because too many variables are still up in the air).

You see - in ten years they would be able to use common car battery as power source. They dont have to develop it, as every car producer tries to develop electro cars = they need new kinds of batteries that can save more power and be lighter as the ones that exist today. It means that all you need is to develop your exoskeleton and connect it to battery that will become world standard. This way you can save a lot of money while concentrating on making suit faster, stronger etc.

[MichaelF]

You see - in ten years they would be able to use common car battery as power source. They dont have to develop it, as every car producer tries to develop electro cars = they need new kinds of batteries that can save more power and be lighter as the ones that exist today. It means that all you need is to develop your exoskeleton and connect it to battery that will become world standard. This way you can save a lot of money while concentrating on making suit faster, stronger etc.

Microturbines have a much better power/weight ratio. That's why the battery pack (and fuel cell) scheme is a backup (according to DARPA).

[Redmen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcM0ruq28dc

cool

[Alex G]

eLegs looks cool, but atm wheelchair is more useful.

[IDF_TANKER]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=424UCSN3Fjg&feature=player_embedded

[BlackWarder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=424UCSN3Fjg&feature=player_embedded

I think that the commercial models got a new more stream-lined UI embaded in the crutches, can't find a referance though.

Warder

[khalifah]

Thread bump-

hopefully the powered suit/ exoskeleton goes far with an international team. There are a lot of good ideas around the world...

[Token White Guy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=424UCSN3Fjg&feature=player_embedded

I would love to have something like this. One problem I can see is speed though. I can wheel myself at a normal person's walking pace. This system seems very sluggish. Until the system is faster and is wired to the brain, I'll pass.

[MichaelF]

You guys have it all wrong! Gen. Petraeus changed how the Army operates, including writing his own Codex Astartes. Clearly that makes him Roboute Guilliman.

Heresy! GEN Petraeus is clearly Dorn in disguise. Imperial Fists FTW!

http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/1/1a/Impfistslogo.png

[khalifah]

For the Primarch-Progenitor!

http://a.imagehost.org/view/0741/gallery_24723_3002_280114

Yeah, we wont be alive to see anything like this^ :(

[Wally1967]

Some update from today's news.


Exoskeleton now runs off battery
Enables users to lift 90kg
Pictures: See HULC in action (http://www.news.com.au/technology/gallery-e6frflwi-1226095239295)


IT has been the stuff of science fiction for generations - a wearable exoskeleton that gives human beings super powers.

And now the US Army is one step closer to realising that dream after it began testing its latest hi-tech war fighting gadget.
The human universal load carrier, or HULC, is a wearable exoskeleton that allows soldiers to carry up to 90kg for more than 20km on a single battery charge.
http://media.news.com.au/news/2011/01-jan/link-icons/icon_galleries.gif See HULC in action (http://www.news.com.au/technology/gallery-e6frflwi-1226095239295)
The remarkable piece of kit is built by defence contractors Lockheed Martin and allows users to run at 11km/h for extended periods and even has a "burst mode" that takes the run into a 16km/h sprint for short periods.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/incredible-hulc-powers-army-of-the-future/story-e6frfro0-1226095305343#ixzz1S8tAzsed

[Dankster]

Awesome news Wally. I can't wait to see these things being used in the field, even if it is just used for logistics work.

[BlackWarder]

Some news by nextbigfuture on the research for "super soldiers"

Check it here (http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/07/supersoldier-2020-will-have-exoskeleton.html)

Warder

Edit: I don't remember posting this here...