View Full Version : Tell me this: America-nation building
Jooglae
08-07-2003, 01:25 PM
What do you think?
Ratamacue
08-07-2003, 02:18 PM
You're just asking for trouble, dude.
budanski
08-07-2003, 02:48 PM
What about Germany, Japan, South Korea, and the Philippines or do you not want to include the rebuilding of totalitarian governments and dictatorships into vibrant democracies? Who do you consider better at the game? The U.N.? U.N. efforts at rebuilding countries are poor. Just look at what happened in Cambodia. There, the U.N. managed to allow a despot to take over the government. In Kosovo, likewise, even after four years and 2.4 billion in international aid, the U.N. still hasn't turned over the reigns of government to the people of that country.
We had no choice with Afghanistan. Toppling the Taliban and routing al-Qaeda was absolutely imperative and completely justifiable. Putting the country back together again is also imperative from a US national security (as well as a moral) standpoint.
The Iraqi war was a war of choice justified almost completely by the following assumption: Saddam Hussein possessed WMD and links to international terrorism. Together this constituted a direct threat to our national security gave the United States the right to take preemptive action.
The Baltics and Somalia? Don't even blame us on this one. Ask your beloved UN.
andrew45c
08-07-2003, 03:52 PM
Lets just say that there are very few countries in the world that dont hate americas guts.
A better title for this thread would be when have america been succesful in helping to rebuild a nation.
You cant argue with the facts whatever else america might be good at it certainly isnt this.
Seraphim
08-07-2003, 05:04 PM
Actually I watched this show about what the world thinks about the US. Seems like a the rest of the world has a general disliking to the US.
budanski
08-07-2003, 05:05 PM
Gee, did by chance it came from the BBC? :roll:
Actually I watched this show about what the world thinks about the US. Seems like a the rest of the world has a general disliking to the US.
And also that many people started disliking the USA after Bush had been elected and his policy started working.
Gordon
08-07-2003, 07:37 PM
Gee, did by chance it came from the BBC? :roll:
huh??
Watch much stuff on the BBC do you?
ScoutRanger
08-07-2003, 08:07 PM
Oh cool another one of these dumbass threads. If you are going to throw nations we help build why dont you throw them all up?
Well, if the U.S cannot do it alone, then others should help along. It is for everyones benefit that there is success in the end, in Afghanistan as well as in Iraq. It's not very constructive just to accuse America of this and that and not do anything positive on your own.
Seraphim
08-08-2003, 03:26 AM
Gee, did by chance it came from the BBC? :roll:
Actaully it was made by the CBC with the help of journalists all over the world.
andrew45c
08-08-2003, 07:08 AM
Well, if the U.S cannot do it alone, then others should help along. It is for everyones benefit that there is success in the end, in Afghanistan as well as in Iraq. It's not very constructive just to accuse America of this and that and not do anything positive on your own.
Errr excuse me Britain helps out all the time and in my opinion we are the best nation builders out there so is the opinion of Iraqis. For example on that program fighting the war this Iraqi said something like "we dont like americans they kill are people, but we like the british you help us re-build"
( it was something like that anyway , sorry if its worded oddly).
Zach R.
08-08-2003, 11:43 PM
Err, excuse me Andrew but if I recall the British have got it pretty easy in the South. While we take the responsibility of the Saddam loyalists and baathist supporters. Again, it's your crazy arrogance that drives me up the wall.
Ngati Tumatauenga
08-09-2003, 12:29 AM
Andrew could we please have some examples of british nation building.
Apogee
08-09-2003, 12:34 AM
The United States aka 13 colonies, Canada, Virgin Islands, India.....
Gordon
08-09-2003, 03:07 AM
Andrew could we please have some examples of british nation building.
Umm .. sorry if you missed it but the Brits had an empire for a while ... fairplay we don't have it anymore but the the Roman empire doesn't exist anymore either ... does that mean they didn't do any successful nation building? ... oh yeah, and a number of countries are pretty happy being a part of the British Commonwealth.
Everyone seems to be getting pretty pissed with this post - Old Jooglae, who started this thread, didn't accuse the Americans of being bad at anything ... he just asked what people's opinions are concerning how good America are at nation building.
Personally I reckon they've had their ups and downs like all countries who've tried this sort of venture. Iraq doesn't seem to be going to badly, I mean it's very hard to imagine a scenario where the coalition won the war which resulted in the end of all attacks, the disarming of the nation and the introduction of a new democratic government etc ... just like that, whoever happened to be in charge .. I can't think of anytime it's happened anyway. As many times as I've read about how the yanks are despised in Iraq I've also read as many times about Iraqi's who are happy they're there.
As to Afghanistan, they definitely did the military stuff there. Not too sure how it's going now ... Opium production seems to be up, some sources seem to claim even higher than during Taliban times and Warlords still seem to be governing areas ... although without the same level of violence. I read this good article in the economist about it and i'll be happy to search it out for anyone who wants to read it, other than the media though I don't know anything about it so ....
martinexsquaddie
08-09-2003, 03:17 AM
Serria Leonie
springs to mind :lol:
andrew45c
08-09-2003, 02:43 PM
Err, excuse me Andrew but if I recall the British have got it pretty easy in the South. While we take the responsibility of the Saddam loyalists and baathist supporters. Again, it's your crazy arrogance that drives me up the wall.
It has nothing to do with the fact that we are in the south they just like us and hate you, mostly due to the fact we respect there religion, culture Human rights and work with the Iraqis . Plus we dont scare the **** outta them by riding round in huge tanks wearing full body armour and conduct aggressive searches.
Just face it they hate you. And as for my crazy arrogance put up with it and shut up, Or come over here and sort it out.
andrew45c
08-09-2003, 02:50 PM
Andrew could we please have some examples of british nation building.
No you cant because you should allready know there are loads.Ohh wait how about you we built you didnt we yeah thats it some people who wanted to start there own little society wandered across the ocean and made a happy little society of there own and we governed you for a while and we still would be now if it wasnt for the bloody french (they wreck everything).
budanski
08-09-2003, 05:10 PM
Before you open your mouth insulting people, I suggest you find out where they're from first. :bash:
Ngati Tumatauenga
08-09-2003, 05:22 PM
Thanks Gordon, but I was actually after examples of modern nation building by the british. 1900 onwards..........
Andrew, thank you so much for your informative and balanced reply.
However.......
For both of you it was a straight question. I'm generally not interested in politics so I don't know a lot. There for I thought i'd ask someone who might know. If you thought my question was rude or sarcastic I apologise. I'll be more careful in future. The word PLEASE can be so offensive sometimes can't it?. I was thinking of Sierra Leone when I asked the question and again I apologise for not explaining it to the very last detail.
I'll know better next time.
Andrew, one thing I DO know is that the french had nothing to do with Britain no longer governing our country. We made that decision ourselves.
Perhaps you're unsure of what country your talking about?. [/quote]
Gordon
08-09-2003, 05:41 PM
Off the top of my head Oman, with a bit of help from the US in the form of supplies, equipment etc ... and also Hahmmm Iraq ... :roll:
budanski
08-09-2003, 05:46 PM
It has nothing to do with the fact that we are in the south they just like us and hate you, mostly due to the fact we respect there religion, culture Human rights and work with the Iraqis . Plus we dont scare the **** outta them by riding round in huge tanks wearing full body armour and conduct aggressive searches.
Just face it they hate you. And as for my crazy arrogance put up with it and shut up, Or come over here and sort it out.
Hungry for Crow? (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_807655.html?menu=news.wariniraq)
More Crow (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3108)
Why hasnt anyone mentioned Israel being that it was a British project?
usa320
08-09-2003, 11:54 PM
I love people who troll without the facts... I always get a giggle out of the silence of a pwned troll.
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