Unfit for Command.

[Kilgor]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0895260174.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE AUG 03, 2004 21:35:02 ET XXXXX

BOOK CLAIMS KERRY WAR 'FABRICATIONS'

**Exclusive**

A veterans group seeking to deeply discredit Democrat John Kerry's military service will charge in the new bombshell book UNFIT FOR COMMAND:


Two of John Kerry's three Purple Heart decorations resulted from self-inflicted wounds, not suffered under enemy fire.


All three of Kerry's Purple Hearts were for minor injuries, not requiring a single hour of hospitalization.


A "fanny wound" was the highlight of Kerry's much touted "no man left behind" Bronze Star.


Kerry turned the tragic death of a father and small child in a Vietnamese fishing boat into an act of "heroism" by filing a false report on the incident.


Kerry entered an abandoned Vietnamese village and slaughtered the domestic animals owned by the civilians and burned down their homes with his Zippo lighter.


Kerry's reckless behavior convinced his colleagues that he had to go -- becoming the only Swift Boat veteran to serve only four months.

The Kerry campaign is planning to vigorously counter the charges and will accuse the veteran's groups of being well-financed by a top Bush donor from Texas, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

"They hired a goddamn private investigator to dig up trash!" charged a top Kerry adviser traveling with the senator late Tuesday. "This is pay for play, and the dirtiest of all dirty tricks ever played on a candidate for the presidency. How low can they go?"

Kerry supporters are comparing the effort by the veterans to the Arkansas State troopers tell-all against Bill Clinton.

UNFIT FOR COMMAND will not be released until August 15.

The names. The details. All on the record.

Beginning tomorrow, the DRUDGE REPORT will break the embargo.


http://www.drudgereport.com/ufd.htm

[ShotOver]

:D
In my opinion, they are both unfit for leadership, but yeah. I can't back that up with any facts, just my humble opinion.

[penna]

:D
In my opinion, they are both unfit for leadership, but yeah. I can't back that up with any facts, just my humble opinion.

yep, my opinion exactly. thank goodness for write-ins on the ballots.

[UoUo]

I have a question to the amricans here....did your economy improved under Bush?

[Jack Mehoff]

I have a question to the amricans here....did your economy improved under Bush?

Before or after 9/11?

[One_A]

I have a question to the amricans here....did your economy improved under Bush?

No.

[UoUo]

I have a question to the amricans here....did your economy improved under Bush?

Before or after 9/11?

I meant compare it to Klinton?

[Lt_Crooks]

of course bush is unfit , i think they should implement some type of minimum SAT score or something in order to become president because mr.bush is really just not that bright , just listen to him talk, he made C's in college!

[Lt_Crooks]

I have a question to the amricans here....did your economy improved under Bush?

Before or after 9/11?

I meant compare it to Klinton?
NO.

[Geezah]

I have a question to the amricans here....did your economy improved under Bush?

No.

Where have you been :cantbeli: , when Bush took over we were already in the middle of a recession thank to Klinton and 9/11 didn't do anything to help matters.
And yes Bush has turned this Country around,


Unemployment Report
By: RW Special Reports

The numbers are in. Job growth is back and likely to keep going strong. In a recent statement made by Michael Moskow, President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, business can expect the outlook for jobs to remain strong throughout the end of the year and inflation to remain low. Now that the economy finally has its legs, the next question for recruiters is: What states and regions are experiencing the most growth? In this article we take a look at recent unemployment statistics from the US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics to determine what areas of the country have benefited the most (and least) from hiring momentum.

According to the May 2004 unemployment statistics from the US Department of Labor, the southeastern and western states are leading the nation in low unemployment levels and job creation. Colorado, Georgia, Nevada, and North Carolina are among the nation's star performers in job growth. Unemployment rates in these states declined over 18% in the past year and now hover around 4%. Washington State, once the state with the highest unemployment numbers in the country, went from 7.7% to 6.3% unemployment in the past year; an 18.2% improvement.



Northeastern USA:
Unemployment Data 2003-2004
Average Regional Reduction -11.4%



Southeastern USA:
Unemployment Data 2003-2004
Average Regional Reduction -11.8%



Midwestern USA:
Unemployment Data 2003-2004
Average Regional Reduction -7.1%



Southwestern USA:
Unemployment Data 2003-2004
Average Regional Reduction -13.9%



Western USA:
Unemployment Data 2003-2004
Average Regional Reduction -16.5%


Source:U.S. Department of Labor
(http://www.recruitersworld.com/articles/rw/special/jobgrowth2.asp)

It doesn't matter what information you put forth to prove them wrong, the Dems will always say it's bad under a Republican President but the numbers speak for themselves woot

[Tom The Hunter]

Well, Kerry foufht for his Country, Bush did not!
And Bush had some problems, as alcool abuse etc...

[Geezah]

Well, Kerry foufht for his Country, Bush did not!
And Bush had some problems, as alcool abuse etc...

And you're in Croatia and so far everything you've come out with has been flawed info :cantbeli:

[Tom The Hunter]

Well, Kerry foufht for his Country, Bush did not!
And Bush had some problems, as alcool abuse etc...

And you're in Croatia and so far everything you've come out with has been flawed info :cantbeli:

Croatia? When Mark Thatcher, the son of Margie, one of the greatest smugglers of arms in the world, sold his weapons!
Lugano, Switzerland!

[Geezah]

Well, Kerry foufht for his Country, Bush did not!
And Bush had some problems, as alcool abuse etc...

And you're in Croatia and so far everything you've come out with has been flawed info :cantbeli:

Croatia? When Mark Thatcher, the son of Margie, one of the greatest smugglers of arms in the world, sold his weapons!
Lugano, Switzerland!

Huh......
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/7537/rid732.JPG
Tom The Hunter aka The Riddler

[OB Kenobi]

Well, Kerry foufht for his Country, Bush did not!
And Bush had some problems, as alcool abuse etc...

Kerry is a weasel. He's not going to do anything to prosecute Bush or the corporate crooks who are running wild in this country, that's why I don't like him. He's going to be Bush Lite, but maybe more focused on social programs than Big Oil. I'm seriously thinking about voting for Nader, since it's looking like it really isn't going to make a difference.

If Kerry wants my vote, he needs to promise to put Bush (and quite a few other people related to all this) on trial for treason (lying to Congress, embezzlement of tax $$$, trading with the enemy, etc), and to cooperate with Iraq and the UN to restore some kind of order there so we can stop using our troops for Al Qaeda target practice. Also do something about the job outsourcing and the illegal aliens.

There's so many things to do, invading Iraq wasn't one of them.

[BlackRain]

I have a question to the amricans here....did your economy improved under Bush?

Yes! But, I have facts to back up that statement.


The gross-domestic-product (GDP) numbers for the third quarter show that economic growth has surged. Real GDP grew at a 7.2 percent annual rate, the highest growth rate in 19 years.

The 5.6 percent unemployment rate is the lowest in two years and below the average of the 1980s (7.3 percent) and '90s (5.8 percent), and still continues to drop.

The nation's economic output revealed the strongest quarterly growth in 20 years. The data for the fourth quarter of 2003 show that the civilian labor force rose by 333,000, while the number of unemployed in the labor force dropped by 575,000, and the number of so-called discouraged workers is less than .3 percent of the workforce, according to Paul Kersey of the Heritage Foundation.

Consumer spending grew between 4 percent and 5 percent last year, and real hourly earnings rose 1.5 percent. Real earnings have risen over the last three years.

Exports doubled to 19 percent in the fourth quarter, compared to less than 9 percent in the third.

The number of American workers is at an all-time high of 138.5 million, a level never before attained in U.S. history.

Jobless claims are 10 percent below the average of the last 25 years and still falling.

Hiring indices are up, even in manufacturing.

Productivity growth is extremely high.


Unions are mad that there are less menial manufacturing jobs that are low paying but there are more higher paying high tech jobs.

Check out : http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=208

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Hey, I can't verify the validity of the claims in the book. But as to this quesiton;


UoUo wrote:
I have a question to the amricans here....did your economy improved under Bush?

Things have improved since 9/11 - but there is a larger issue at hand when you talk about the economy.

You have to remember that the Clinton era economy was artificially inflated - a "bubble" if you will. And it deflated rather abruptly, when all the accounting violations came to light. The accounting scandal seriously shook the markets, and perceptions are hard to change. Bush cannot be held responsible for reverberations resulting from the shock of all those hundreds of billions of dollars in false revenues racked up under previous administrations' watch. Similarly, Clinton should not be given credit for what was essentially a "fake" economy - we were all really living on borrowed time.

[Geezah]

Well, Kerry foufht for his Country, Bush did not!
And Bush had some problems, as alcool abuse etc...

If Kerry wants my vote, he needs to promise to put Bush (and quite a few other people related to all this) on trial for treason (lying to Congress, embezzlement of tax $$$, trading with the enemy, etc), and to cooperate with Iraq and the UN to restore some kind of order there so we can stop using our troops for Al Qaeda target practice. Also do something about the job outsourcing and the illegal aliens.

There's so many things to do, invading Iraq wasn't one of them.

Wow.....where have you been hiding, I thought Kerry was a Communist lover and tried desperately to bury any proof of POW/MIAs in Vietnam so he could push for the embargo to be dropped so we could once again trade with them?

[XASA]

The political bullsh** is getting so deep here you need hip boots to wade through it ;) Don't you guys ever get tired of preaching to your own self-absorbed choir?

Whether you support Bush or Kerry, it would help if you wouldn't post nonsense that's an insult to our intelligence.

[vryhpyammoadded]

I have a question to the amricans here....did your economy improved under Bush?

Yes and No...
The economic tumble that started during the Clinton admin and the 2000 election, 9/11 economic tumble have given Bush quite a challenge.
So far, as about 01/01/2004, the economy has been on the rise and people are starting to do pretty well again in the South East and my friends in other regions are saying the same. The job market is pretty fluid though what with the laid off people from last year still searching in the ever growing market.

Warning, Opinion Zone
Personally I'm getting tired of the litigative branch and big money interests running the show. The legal and monetary inflation, i.e. corruption costs, caused by this system is choking the country slowly to death and beginning to stifle personal hope and initiative. I believe this to be the cause of the US creeping disenfranchisement.
I'm not a fan of Kerry or Bush and hope the US people will soon get active in party control and reinstate proper Constitutional legislation again preferably by tossing out, as a whole, the old useless legislators and party faction leaders for new ones with a greater sense of duty to country and not themselves.
Sure right, in my dreams…

My father was a US navy officer during the same time period Kerry was in and its amazing the amount of emails being tossed about by retired friends and associates concerning Kerry and perceptions of him; none good.
By the way, I grew up in the Navy and knew many officers and men who served during this time period. I knew neighbors who didn’t come back, who spent time in Hanoi, who came home missing something, the divorces, the marriages, kids, parties… It was a tight community.
They were soldiers and sailors in war who saw the real person inside during combat. They still network amongst themselves and I trust there judgment of Kerry.

[HooyahCQB]

Regarding this comparison to "Klinton". 5 Months before the 1996 election, unemployment was at 6%. 5 Months before the 2000 election, unemployment was the same...so Clinton didn't help unemployement in the long run...

[Nizark]

Theres a difference between creating new jobs, losing other jobs, and if these 'new' jobs are full time or part time. Hell, if Bush opened a paper route from San Diego to Sac and had to hire kids on bikes to deliver papers, that would also count as 10,000 new jobs in California. Granted they are minimum wage, lousy and do next to nothing for their families per year income.

So maybe someone should do a study on how many jobs Shrub has created that are not part time, low pay or jobs that have a end date, such as the way temp jobs have.

[PeoplesPoster]

Well you know those manufacturing jobs over at McDonalds really helped the economy. rofl rofl

[American Patriot]

Clinton is a Communist plant who rode the economy during his two terms in office while ****ing up everything else, um yeah.

[achilles]

Clinton is a Communist plant who rode the economy during his two terms in office while f*** up everything else, um yeah.

Nah...he is the reincarnation of Lenin and Stalin...two in one...

[Trident-za]

On the issue of the US economy... I have a question. I see some say the economy did well, and some say it didn't. All I know, as a South African is this:

3 years ago the rate of exchange was R11.50 to the $. Now, its R6.10 to the $. The South African Rand has effectively doubled in strength in the last few years (a roughly 100% increase in monetary value in 3 years?). Is this because South Africa has suddenly become an economic powerhouse? Well, according to the ANC.... maybe. However, just about every business I speak to is struggling big time.

My question: is it possible for an African country to have it's currency increase in value 100% against a "growing and strong" US economy in such a short space of time while maintaining that the US economy grew???

I'm not saying it would be better under Kerry, just pointing out the facts from a non-US point of view, and without quoting any other Wall Street figures.

[achilles]

My question: is it possible for an African country to have it's currency increase in value 100% against a "growing and strong" US economy in such a short space of time while maintaining that the US economy grew???

Good question :D . The way you put it no it doesnt make sense at a first glance for an economy to be growing strongly, and at the same time loosing almost half of its exchange rate value.
The idea is like this: a growing economy attracts foreign investors and this means higher demand for,say, dollars...higher demand means higher price and hence the dollar appreciates.
However this need not be the only case: it is possible for an economy to grow while its currency is depreciating at the same time. This may happen because the dollar looses its value as a result of a decreasing demand for US financial assets (stocks, bonds etc). This holds for the financial sector. Yet, the 'real' sector of the economy (investment in machines, plants, consumption etc) may be booming.
If you are wondering how a growing real sector can coexist with a shrinking financial sector a possible explanation is as follows: there might be a time lag before the booming real sector attracts financial investors, both domestic and foreign. This may be due to reasons of investors' confidence, government policy or just coincidence.

So what probably happened with the US is that after the mild recession its been through its economy bounced back, stronger than expected, yet its financial sector suffered as a result of the corporate scandals back then, and along with it the dollar. Thats not neccesarily bad since a falling dollar can well boost US exports and further stimulate growth....fffffff....economics...there is always more than one scenarios involved ;) hope i helped

[achilles]

As for the Bush vs Kerry economic policy debate...what doesnt look good in the US economy is its big budget deficit which might create problems in the medium/long run, especially as the baby boomers will start retiring soon. For the time being the deficit seems to have fueled economic growth but might proove a myopic approach to economic policy.

If Kerry follows a more tight fiscal policy (which is very likely) then we should expect to see higher taxation or less government expenditures. Something not neccesarily bad...in the long run...

[Flagg]

On the issue of the US economy... I have a question. I see some say the economy did well, and some say it didn't. All I know, as a South African is this:

3 years ago the rate of exchange was R11.50 to the $. Now, its R6.10 to the $. The South African Rand has effectively doubled in strength in the last few years (a roughly 100% increase in monetary value in 3 years?). Is this because South Africa has suddenly become an economic powerhouse? Well, according to the ANC.... maybe. However, just about every business I speak to is struggling big time.

My question: is it possible for an African country to have it's currency increase in value 100% against a "growing and strong" US economy in such a short space of time while maintaining that the US economy grew???

I'm not saying it would be better under Kerry, just pointing out the facts from a non-US point of view, and without quoting any other Wall Street figures.

Excellent point Trident......

Here in NZ we've seen 70% increase in our exchange rate with the US dollar in the last 3 years.

If you're familiar with well-respected investors with long track records of accurately predicting future outcomes like Warren Buffett and Jim Rogers, you'll find both are "short the dollar."

Jim Rogers, in particular, is focusing the majority of his efforts on international opportunities...and unfortunately, Warren Buffett has recently, for the first time, begun exchanging a large portion of his billions in cash reserves to foreign currency. To me this is as big a flashing red light as one can get when looking long term.

In a nutshell......they both sort of look at national currencies as the equivalent of a publicly traded corporate equity.

They believe the US dollar is in for a long-term slide as too much deficit spending, too much international borrowing, and too little infrastructure investment is hollowing out the economy.

It will be interesting to see how the eventual floating of China's currency will impact the US's ability to easily raise international funds through borrowing.

I also hope there is a bit of truth to the rumoured Bush campaign proposal to abolish the US Internal Revenue Service and replace it with a flat tax and simple tax code.

[SpazzMunky]

It's odd how most republicans say they hold veterans in higher esteem than anyone else, but when a veteran holds an opposing political view, their service gets ripped apart and trivialized....

[Siddar]

I dont see any advantages in a strong currency it only seems to benefit tourists and speculators at expense of rest of the economy.

[achilles]

I dont see any advantages in a strong currency it only seems to benefit tourists and speculators at expense of rest of the economy.

cheaper imports

[KB]

From BusinessWeek Online 8/2/2004

In its latest fiscal forecast, released on July 30, the Bush Administration projects the deficit for the year ending on Sept. 30 will hit $445 billion. That would be $70 billion more than the record $375 billion deficit we hit last year. According to the White House and its GOP allies, this shows great progress in the battle against deficits.

"Because the President's economic policies are working," says Budget Director Joshua B. Bolten, "We are ahead of pace to meet the goal of cutting the deficit in half within five years." Adds House Budget Committee Chairman Jim Nussle (R-Okla.): "Our budget outlook has significantly improved in the past seven months due to strong economic growth and spending restraint."

MISOVERESTIMATE. Say what? How does the idea of the deficit getting $70 billion bigger translate into fiscal success? It's easy, when you combine Washington's bizarre budget accounting rules, the increasingly superheated campaign season, and some Orwellian rhetoric. You see, last February, President Bush projected the deficit for this year would hit $521 billion. Now, thanks to a growing economy, the Bushies figure it will come in $76 billion below that number. Thus, we have a whole new way to game the budget debate: Overestimate deficits at the beginning of the year, come in below that forecast, and declare victory.

It's a pity that the real world isn't that rosy. Look more closely at the Bush numbers and you'll see that spending from '03 to '04 is up by a staggering $160 billion. Only $14 billion of that can be attributed to homeland security and Pentagon spending, including the war in Iraq. The rest is scattered throughout government, with much of it in programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.

The deficit would have been even bigger, except that a growing economy is boosting tax revenues across the board from last year. Individual income tax receipts are expected to be up by $23 billion, corporate taxes up by a whopping $50 billion -- thanks to higher profits -- and Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes up by $18 billion. Those Social Security taxes, of course, are not saved to pay retirement benefits. They are spent on the rest of government.

THE REAL NUMBERS. And what about Bush's promise to cut the deficit in half in five years? The new Bush budget claims he can do it even faster -- by 2007. But don't hold your breath. That happy prediction assumes the U.S. will spend no more money on Iraq and Afghanistan (news - web sites) after Sept. 30. And it ignores the need to fix the dreaded alternative minimum tax (AMT). Without a fix, the levy will hit more than 30 million taxpayers by the end of the decade.

The reality is that protecting millions of middle-class taxpayers from the AMT would cost close to $50 billion a year over the next decade. Once Washington fixes the AMT and pays for the war in Iraq, you can add at least $100 billion a year to Bush's deficit estimates over the next five years. That means forgetting about all that cutting-the-deficit-in-half business.

If anyone pays attention to the real numbers, the fiscal situation is more bad news for Bush's reelection chances and good news for his newly minted Democratic challenger, John Kerry. The bad news for Kerry, of course, is that if gets elected, he'll actually have to do something about this mess. And while he at least can credibly claim he won't make matters much worse, he hasn't yet shown any inclination to make things better.

[Siddar]

I dont see any advantages in a strong currency it only seems to benefit tourists and speculators at expense of rest of the economy.

cheaper imports

America has had 50+ years off cheap imports we would better off giving world cheaper american exports.

[Pandy]

Well,

The way I see it, whenever I get my third world country, I am the leader and no one else is... everyone gets some land to live on and if your going to do something with it... like farm it or grow some pot... i'll give you a little bit more.

None of this elections bull****, i will go right to the point and if I don't like it, i'll send in a few of the militaryphotos.com boys with weapons (your pick of course too), to take care of it.... woot

[Secret Squirrel]

Well,

The way I see it, whenever I get my third world country, I am the leader and no one else is... everyone gets some land to live on and if your going to do something with it... like farm it or grow some pot... i'll give you a little bit more.

None of this elections bull****, i will go right to the point and if I don't like it, i'll send in a few of the militaryphotos.com boys with weapons (your pick of course too), to take care of it.... woot

I call vice president! woot

[BadKarma26]

I'm a registered Republican, but that article is Fu**ing bull**it. Whoever wrote it obviously hasn't done their research very wisely. Kerry was a war hero, like it or not, and was a fine naval officer. Regardless of what his opinions were after the war, it's petty to try and tarnish his service for this country.

[Flagg]

America has had 50+ years off cheap imports we would better off giving world cheaper american exports.

I disagree.....

A deflating US dollar may insulate uncompetitive US industries and jobs in the short term.......

But the long-term losses include:

higher international commodity prices...like oil

higher imported goods and services prices passed onto the consumer....negatively affecting standard of living

prices go up = inflation, interest rates rise to curb it.....and the brakes go on the economy

[Geezah]

It's odd how most republicans say they hold veterans in higher esteem than anyone else, but when a veteran holds an opposing political view, their service gets ripped apart and trivialized....

So what are your thoughts when other VETS don't hold a single VET in high esteem due to his record while serving and then his record when he got out(even though he was still on the books as I understand it)?

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I'm a registered Republican, but that article is Fu**ing bull**it. Whoever wrote it obviously hasn't done their research very wisely. Kerry was a war hero, like it or not, and was a fine naval officer. Regardless of what his opinions were after the war, it's petty to try and tarnish his service for this country.

You have to remember that people are not just saying "3 purple hearts -bah! so what - he's an ass!". People aren't just making wild claims about him for no reason. But since this guy is using his war record as a building block for his campaign, it is very appropriate for us to take a close look at it.

Well - how are we to judge Kerry's war record? By the fact that he got some medals? That's great - but medals are simply the outcome of an administrative process. Some people's supervisors put them in for awards & decs at every opportunity. Others are lazy & don't do squat. The supporting evidence can be clear cut or not, it can be disputed or not. In other words, all medals are not created equal.

Awards/decs are an important part of any military career, and as such are very much subject to political considerations. I got one achievement medal for something that I had very little involvement in - but because another person "needed the medal" - I got one sort of by proxy. He was politically connected inside our unit & continued to rack up medals at an alarming rate & as did anybody in his circle of influence. A "fast burner" as they say. All I'm saying is that you have to dig a bit deeper - look past the obvious to find out what really went down.

So - we must look to the people who were there, who remember his service, and also to the man himself. It was Kerry who tarnished his own record by coming home, and grabbing the spotlight be claiming that he & his swift boat mates committed war crimes on a regular basis. Nobody else accused him - he came back an did this himself (to get a political springboard, IMHO). So he cannot at once claim to be a war hero and a war criminal.

Kerry does bring a couple of his former boat mates with him (he's a veteran, you know - won 3 purple hearts). But there are far more of his former comrades and supervisors who have a profoundly negative opinion of him. I think they're even running a TV ad now - pretty strong stuff. So if we are to judge by the sheer numbers of Kerry contemporaries who support or don't support him - then we'd have to conclude that he is not the hero he claims to be.

Having not witnessed Kerry's service myself - I have only the testimony of those who were there to go by. And judging by that, it's not a pretty picture.

[BlackRain]

I'm a registered Republican, but that article is Fu**ing bull**it. Whoever wrote it obviously hasn't done their research very wisely. Kerry was a war hero, like it or not, and was a fine naval officer. Regardless of what his opinions were after the war, it's petty to try and tarnish his service for this country.

XXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU AUG 04, 2004 10:14:25 ET XXXXX

VIET VETS CHARGE: KERRY KILLED A LONE, FLEEING, TEENAGE FOE; LIED TO SUPERIORS TO GAIN MEDAL

Slaughters Animals, Burns Down Tiny Village

**Exclusive**

A veterans group seeking to deeply discredit Democrat John Kerry's military service will charge in the new bombshell book UNFIT FOR COMMAND:

"Kerry earned his Silver Star by killing a lone, fleeing, teenage Viet Cong in a loincloth."

"And if Kerry's superiors had known the truth at the time, they would never have recommended him for the medal."

The book also claims to detail how Kerry personally ordered the slaughter of small animals at a small hamlet along the Song Bo De River.

MORE

The book, set for release next week, hit #1 on the AMAZON hitparade after the DRUDGE REPORT revealed details of the book -- a book the Kerry camapign believes is the"the dirtiest of all dirty tricks ever played on a candidate for the presidency."

The Kerry campaign is planning to vigorously counter the charges and will accuse the veteran's groups of being well-financed by a top Bush donor from Texas.

The vets have launched a blistering new TV commercial questioning Kerry's honor and calling him a liar.

MORE

George Bates, an officer in Coastal Division 11, participated in numerous operations with Kerry. In UNFIT FOR COMMAND, Bates recalls a particular patrol with Kerry on the Song Bo De River. He is still "haunted" by the incident:

With Kerry in the lead, the boats approached a small hamlet with three or four grass huts. Pigs and chickens were milling around peacefully. As the boats drew closer, the villagers fled. There were no political symbols or flags in evidence in the tiny village. It was obvious to Bates that existing policies, decency, and good sense required the boats to simply move on.

Instead, Kerry beached his boat directly in the small settlement. Upon his command, the numerous small animals were slaughtered by heavy-caliber machine guns. Acting more like a pirate than a naval officer, Kerry disembarked and ran around with a Zippo lighter, burning up the entire hamlet.

Bates has never forgotten Kerry's actions.

MORE

UNFIT FOR COMMAND, DRUDGE has learned, claims Kerry "earned his Silver Star by killing a lone, fleeing, teenage Viet Cong in a loincloth."

ARE THE VETS TELLING THE TRUTH?

"They hired a goddamn private investigator to dig up trash!" charged a top Kerry adviser traveling with the senator late Tuesday. "This is pay for play... How low can they go?"

Kerry supporters are comparing the effort by the veterans to the Arkansas State troopers tell-all against Bill Clinton.

MORE

John O'Neill, co-author of UNFIT FOR COMMAND, believes that "Kerry's Star would never have been awarded had his actions been reviewed through normal channels. In his case, he was awarded the medal two days after the incident with no review. The medal was arranged to boost the morale of Coastal Division 11, but it was based on false and incomplete information provided by Kerry himself."

According to Kerry's Silver Star citation, Kerry was in command of a three-boat mission on the Dong Cung River. As the boats approached the target area, they came under intense enemy fire. Kerry ordered his boat to attack and all boats opened fire. He then beached directly in front of the enemy ambushers. In the battle that followed, the crews captured enemy weapons. His boat then moved further up the river to suppress more enemy fire. A rocket exploded near Kerry's boat, and he ordered to charge the enemy. Kerry beached his boat 10 feet from the rocket position and led a landing party ashore to pursue the enemy.

Kerry' citation reads: "The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lt. Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission."

Here's what O'Neill and the Swiftees say: "According to Kerry's crewman Michael Madeiros, Kerry had an agreement with him to turn the boat in and onto the beach if fired upon. Each of the three boats involved in the operation was involved in the agreement." O'Neill writes that one crewman even recalls a discussion of probable medals.

Doug Reese, a pro Kerry Army veteran, recounted what happened that day to O'Neill, "Far from being alone, the boats were loaded with many soldiers commanded by Reese and two other advisors. When fired at, Reese's boat--not Kerry's--was the first to beach in the ambush zone. Then Reese and other troops and advisors (not Kerry) disembarked, killing a number of Viet Cong and capturing a number of weapons. None of the participants from Reese's boat received Silver Stars.

O'Neill continues: "Kerry's boat moved slightly downstream and was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade. . . .A young Viet Cong in a loincloth popped out of a hole, clutching a grenade launcher, which may or may not have been loaded. . . Tom Belodeau, a forward gunner, shot the Viet Cong with an M-60 machine gun in the leg as he fled. . . . Kerry and Medeiros (who had many troops in their boat) took off, perhaps with others, and followed the young Viet Cong and shot him in the back, behind a lean to."

O'Neill concludes "Whether Kerry's dispatching of a fleeing, wounded, armed or unarmed teenage enemy was in accordance with the customs of war, it is very clear that many Vietnam veterans and most Swiftees do not consider this action to be the stuff of which medals of any kind are awarded; nor would it even be a good story if told in the cold details of reality. There is no indication that Kerry ever reported that the Viet Cong was wounded and fleeing when dispatched. Likewise, the citation simply ignores the presence of the soldiers and advisors who actually 'captured the enemy weapons' and routed the Viet Cong. . . . [and] that Kerry attacked a 'numerically superior force in the face of intense fire' is simply false. There was little or no fire after Kerry followed the plan. . . . The lone, wounded, fleeing young Viet Cong in a loincloth was hardly a force superior to the heavily armed Swift Boat and its crew and the soldiers carried aboard."

DRUDGE learns from UNFIT FOR COMMAND that if Kerry's superior officers knew the truth, they would never have recommended the award:

"Admiral Roy Hoffmann, who sent a Bravo Zulu (meaning "good work"), to Kerry upon learning of the incident, was very surprised to discover in 2004 what had actually occurred. Hoffmann had been told that Kerry had spontaneously beached next to the bunker and almost single-handedly routed a bunkered force in Viet Cong. He was shocked to find out that Kerry had beached his boat second in a preplanned operation, and that he had killed a single, wounded teenage foe as he fled."

"Commander Geoge Elliott, who wrote up the initial draft of Kerry's Silver Star citation, confirms that neither he, nor anyone else in the Silver Star process that he knows, realized before 1996 that Kerry was facing a single, wounded young Viet Cong fleeing in a loincloth. While Commander Elliott and many other Swiftees believe that Kerry committed no crime in killing the fleeing, wounded enemy (with a loaded or empty launcher), others feel differently. Commander Elliott indicates that a Silver Star recommendation would not have been made by him had he been aware of the actual facts."

Developing....

[Secret Squirrel]

I think we need a tabloid section on the forum. woot

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I hope Teresa hadn't picked out the drapes for the Oval Office just yet...

[SpazzMunky]

It's odd how most republicans say they hold veterans in higher esteem than anyone else, but when a veteran holds an opposing political view, their service gets ripped apart and trivialized....

So what are your thoughts when other VETS don't hold a single VET in high esteem due to his record while serving and then his record when he got out(even though he was still on the books as I understand it)?

Some vets also support Kerry. And most of the vets who are his detractors never served with him, while those who did mostly acknowledge he was a good leader.

As for Kerry being anti-war after he got out, Vietnam Veterans Against the War was one of the largest and most influental anti-war groups out there at the time, at one point having ~30,000 members. Are you saying that these 30,000 people are unfit for public office because they opposed a war??

[SpazzMunky]

I think we need a tabloid section on the forum. woot
rofl
Word

[Fox2]

I think we need a tabloid section on the forum. woot

Ah, I see. So, lemme get this straight. If a particular article's content is not to your liking, it's automatically "tabloid material" or "not credible"?

Whereas, if the said article was in line with your personal views, then it is automatically "credible", right?

Seems to me like you've run out of ideas for a counter-argument, so you're pulling out the "credibility" card.

Now, if you'll just reply with one of your usual "you're an idiot because you don't agree with me" remarks, then I think I'll have you all figured out.

:lol:

[Secret Squirrel]

I think we need a tabloid section on the forum. woot

Ah, I see. So, lemme get this straight. If a particular article's content is not to your liking, it's automatically "tabloid material" or "not credible"?

Whereas, if the said article was in line with your personal views, then it is automatically "credible", right?

Seems to me like you've run out of ideas for a counter-argument, so you're pulling out the "credibility" card.

Now, if you'll just reply with one of your usual "you're an idiot because you don't agree with me" remarks, then I think I'll have you all figured out.

:lol:

Nope. But let me answer by quoting another member...


The political bullsh** is getting so deep here you need hip boots to wade through it Don't you guys ever get tired of preaching to your own self-absorbed choir?

Whether you support Bush or Kerry, it would help if you wouldn't post nonsense that's an insult to our intelligence. ;)

[Fox2]

Fair enough. ;)

On the topic, I feel similar to some here in that I respect what Kerry did by going over there (for however long and questionable decorations aside). But that doesn't mean we can't examine what he's done since then. I get the feeling that some of the veterans against Kerry are mostly just angry at what he did after Vietnam.

I just wanted to interject, though, because I'm tired of this tit-for-tat credibility stuff. "Your source isn't credible because I don't like what it says!" "Oh yeah?! Well your source isn't credible either, so nyah!"

Anyway, ya'll have a good one.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Clinton Intern Found On Moon! Claims Grey Alien and Bat Boy hid her under orders of First Lady!

[He219]

I think we need a tabloid section on the forum. woot
But you've already been the Editor of the Tabloid Section for quite a while now ..

;)

[Beowulf]

I think we need a tabloid section on the forum. woot
But you've already been the Editor of the Tabloid Section for quite a while now ..

;)

baziing

[Geezah]

As for Kerry being anti-war after he got out, Vietnam Veterans Against the War was one of the largest and most influental anti-war groups out there at the time, at one point having ~30,000 members. Are you saying that these 30,000 people are unfit for public office because they opposed a war??

Unfit to run for office due to the fact that the enemy at that time were comforted by the actions of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and it did nothing for the moral of those troops that were still serving! It also made great propoganda for the VC and NVA to use!

[Secret Squirrel]

I think we need a tabloid section on the forum. woot
But you've already been the Editor of the Tabloid Section for quite a while now ..

;)

I know, but the pay sucks. ;) Besides, after everything it took to convince people to question what newmax was writing, i dont have it in me to bother anymore (well most times anyway). :backhand:

[He219]

The pendulumn swings both ways ...
;)

http://intellectualconservative.com/images/FoolishandFeckless.gif (http://www2.trafford.com/clientimages/cv1412023335.jpg)*Click image to expand*

In his victory speech after his Iowa triumph, Kerry spoke of "Richard Nixon's War." That, sadly, answered every question about this particular incarnation of Leftist evil.
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article3073.html

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/040315/nn_williams_kerry_040315.275w.jpg
White House Secret Kerry Tapes (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4534274/)

[Geezah]

Unfit for Office

I was on Mr. Kerry's boat in Vietnam. He doesn't deserve to be commander in chief.


HOUSTON--In 1971, I debated John Kerry, then a national spokesman for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, for 90 minutes on "The **** Cavett Show." The key issue in that debate was Mr. Kerry's claim that American troops were committing war crimes in Vietnam "on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command." Now, as Sen. Kerry emerges as the presumptive Democratic nominee for the presidency, I've chosen to re-enter the fray.

Like John Kerry, I served in Vietnam as a Swift Boat commander. Ironically, John Kerry and I served much of our time, a full 12 months in my case and a controversial four months in his, commanding the exact same six-man boat, PCF-94, which I took over after he requested early departure. Despite our shared experience, I still believe what I believed 33 years ago--that John Kerry slandered America's military by inventing or repeating grossly exaggerated claims of atrocities and war crimes in order to advance his own political career as an antiwar activist. His misrepresentations played a significant role in creating the negative and false image of Vietnam vets that has persisted for over three decades.

Neither I, nor any man I served with, ever committed any atrocity or war crime in Vietnam. The opposite was the truth. Rather than use excessive force, we suffered casualty after casualty because we chose to refrain from firing rather than risk injuring civilians. More than once, I saw friends die in areas we entered with loudspeakers rather than guns. John Kerry's accusations then and now were an injustice that struck at the soul of anyone who served there.

During my 1971 televised debate with John Kerry, I accused him of lying. I urged him to come forth with affidavits from the soldiers who had claimed to have committed or witnessed atrocities. To date no such affidavits have been filed. Recently, Sen. Kerry has attempted to reframe his comments as youthful or "over the top." Yet always there has been a calculated coolness to the way he has sought to destroy the record of our honorable service in the interest of promoting his political ambitions of the moment.

John Kennedy's book, "Profiles in Courage," and Dwight Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe" inspired generations. Not so John Kerry, who has suppressed his book, "The New Soldier," prohibiting its reprinting. There is a clear reason for this. The book repeats John Kerry's insults to the American military, beginning with its front-cover image of the American flag being carried upside down by a band of bearded renegades in uniform--a clear slap at the brave Marines in their combat gear who raised our flag at Iwo Jima. Allow me the reprint rights to your book, Sen. Kerry, and I will make sure copies of "The New Soldier" are available in bookstores throughout America.


Vietnam was a long time ago. Why does it matter today? Since the days of the Roman Empire, the concept of military loyalty up and down the chain of command has been indispensable. The commander's loyalty to the troops is the price a commander pays for the loyalty of the troops in return. How can a man be commander in chief who for over 30 years has accused his "Band of Brothers," as well as himself, of being war criminals? On a practical basis, John Kerry's breach of loyalty is a prescription of disaster for our armed forces.
John Kerry's recent admissions caused me to realize that I was most likely in Vietnam dodging enemy rockets on the very day he met in Paris with Madame Binh, the representative of the Viet Cong to the Paris Peace Conference. John Kerry returned to the U.S. to become a national spokesperson for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, a radical fringe of the antiwar movement, an organization set upon propagating the myth of war crimes through demonstrably false assertions. Who was the last American POW to die languishing in a North Vietnamese prison forced to listen to the recorded voice of John Kerry disgracing their service by his dishonest testimony before the Senate?


Since 1971, I have refused many offers from John Kerry's political opponents to speak out against him. My reluctance to become involved once again in politics is outweighed now by my profound conviction that John Kerry is simply not fit to be America's commander in chief. Nobody has recruited me to come forward. My decision is the inevitable result of my own personal beliefs and life experience.
Today, America is engaged in a new war, against the militant Islamist terrorists who attacked us on our own soil. Reasonable people may differ about how best to proceed, but I'm sure of one thing--John Kerry is the wrong man to put in charge.


Mr. O'Neill served in Coastal Division 11 in 1969-70, winning two Bronze Stars and additional decorations for his service in Vietnam.


Opinion Journal (http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005036)

[mobster]

Kerry's Jive Talk
In a blundering attempt to keep locals from falling to sleep, John Kerry has tried to tie in local odds and ends into his vapid speeches. In the past week, 4 of these attempts backfired. Here they are:

1) While stumping in Michigan, home of the University of Michigian Wolverines, Kerry claimed that he was a Ohio Buckeye fan. The Buckeyes are arch rivals of the local Wolverines. His fumble went like this: "I just go for Buckeye football, that's where I'm coming from."
Click Here for the article.

2) In Milwaukee, Kerry claimed he "sure better find some baby backs over there at Speed Queen Bar-B-Q and a double-dip vanilla at Leon's. And if I don't get there, I'm in trouble." Well Leon served a lot of ice cream that day, but not to Kerry. At Speed Queen, which does not sell baby back ribs, only spare ribs, Kerry was a no-show. He munched on filet mignon with asparagus and potatoes at a more upscale lakefront place.
Click Here for the article.

3) While addressing a crowd in Wheeling, WV, Kerry claimed he was a fan of DiCarlo's Pizza. He stated "I know that you can't leave here without a tray of pizza and an extra bag of cheese, and that's what I'm looking for,". Wheeling's DiCarlo's Pizza has been closed for some time.
Click Here for the article.

4) In Zanesville Ohio, Kerry wooed the crowd by mentioning Adornetto's pizza. The owner of Adornetto's Pizza offered to send over free pizza to to the campaign bus. The Kerry Camp declined, stating that the store could not deliver quickly enough.
Click Here for the article.

[aartamen]

I have a question to the amricans here....did your economy improved under Bush?

It improved after it got really slow after 9/11.

And if it did not, I would not care. We kicked the islamists in the balls. That's worth a lot.

[SpazzMunky]

As for Kerry being anti-war after he got out, Vietnam Veterans Against the War was one of the largest and most influental anti-war groups out there at the time, at one point having ~30,000 members. Are you saying that these 30,000 people are unfit for public office because they opposed a war??

Unfit to run for office due to the fact that the enemy at that time were comforted by the actions of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and it did nothing for the moral of those troops that were still serving! It also made great propoganda for the VC and NVA to use!

:|

You see, one of the central aspects of a democracy is that protesting government actions (in this case a war) are completely legal. You can claim that everyone who protests is a traitor, but that doesn't make it a democracy now does it?

See, whenever the government does something, people don't all fall into line, and that is a good thing. People have a responsibility to determine what is right and wrong themselves, not be told what is right or wrong by their government. Protests are part of American politics, and although they might provide hope to enemies, enrage political opponents, and maybe even cause rain to fall on small pacific islands, they are an integral part of society.

Individual thinking and political dissent is the only thing that keeps nations from sliding into totalitarian states. Kerry was protesting what he felt was wrong desicions on the part of the government, not attempting to overthrow the government or provide propaganda for the NVA.