Navy Testing Two New Camo Uniforms

[wild_wild_wes]

http://www.military.com/news/article/navy-testing-two-new-camo-uniforms.html?col=1186032325324&ESRC=navy.nl

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/USPx4/type-ii-and-iii.jpg

Navy Testing Two New Camo Uniforms

The Navy is set to field two new camouflage uniforms next year, just months after the last of the fleet will be issued the service’s newest pixel-pattern, blue-and-grey “Navy Working Uniform.”

Navy officials announced late last year they would provide a service-specific camouflage pattern to the ever-growing number of Sailors supporting operations in combat environments, recognizing the bright colors of their newest at-sea uniform were inappropriate for anything other than shipboard operations.

“In 2006, the [Chief of Naval Operations] saw the need to improve the tactical uniforms,” said Lt. Cmdr. Chris Neish, a top gear buyer for the Naval Expeditionary Programs office. “The rationale was to provide a uniform to address the needs of the battlefield today.”
Borrowing from work done by Naval Special Warfare Command on two camouflage patterns similar to the Marine Corps’ desert and woodland digital patterns, the Navy began testing the so-called “Navy Working Uniform Type II and III” in late July.

The Type II uniform is a slightly darker version of the Corps’ desert Marpat scheme and the Type III set-up is akin to the Corps’ woodland digital. Both have the Navy’s “Anchor, Constitution and Eagle” emblem embedded in the digital pattern.

According to Navy officials, only Naval Special Warfare operators and those supporting them will be allowed to wear the Type II duds, while all Sailors who are currently issued the old-school woodland uniforms will be allowed to wear the Type III cammies -- both deployed and at their home stations.

That means Sailors in the Seabees, riverine units and explosive ordnance disposal technicians will get the new Navy Type III uniforms for day-to-day wear. Naval Special Warfare operators will also be issued Type III camo duds for woodland and jungle environments.

Commandos issued the Type II desert scheme will not be allowed to wear their new uniforms on base in the U.S. unless they’re in training, and any Sailors outside the special warfare or expeditionary community deployed to a desert locale will still wear the Desert Storm-era tri-color desert camo, the Navy says.

The entire program cost an estimated $80 million to develop, test and field the two camo uniforms, officials said.

Development of the new camouflage patterns comes as the Navy is still fielding its controversial new “Type I Navy Working Uniform” that replaced the dungarees, khakis and coveralls that were part of Sailors’ seabags for decades. It was the last of the services to develop and field a digitally patterned camouflage uniform after the Marine Corps launched its Marpat uniforms in 2002.

Many had criticized the blue-and-grey-hued digital Navy Working Uniform as only suitable for non-deployed or shipboard use and wondered why, during a time of war and increased deployments for Sailors in land-based combat zones, the Navy would field a pattern the service itself admitted was not camouflage.

The fielding also caps nearly 10 years of development in the Naval Special Warfare community of the so-called AOR-1 and AOR-2 camouflage schemes, which are very similar to the Type II and Type III patterns but diverge radically from the MultiCam pattern being adopted by Army and Air Force special operators.

On its Web site outlining the program (https://portal.navfac.navy.mil/portal/page/portal/navfac/nwu), the Naval Facilities Engineering Command says the service opted against MultiCam because “the Navy has determined Type II and III provide the best option to protect our forces and maintain our tactical advantage.”

The Navy is currently testing two different designs for the new camo uniforms, one which incorporates features preferred by the SEAL community, including large shoulder pockets, angled cargo pockets and chest pockets that can be accessed through body armor, and another version with a more traditional cut.

About 150 Sailors are participating in the six-week “conformance test” in San Diego; Norfolk, Va.; and Tampa, Fla., and will provide feedback to designers for a final version.

The final design will incorporate all the best features of the two variants being tested, and both the Type II and III duds will be the same, except for the camo pattern, officials said.

The Navy will field garrison caps, boonie hats, helmet covers and Gore-Tex parkas in both patterns, and it is unclear whether the service will develop accessories such as pouches and body armor covers in Type II or III.

“The program’s so new, we haven’t gotten that far,” said program manager Andy Hu. “But we’ll certainly do everything we can improve the capability of the warfighter on the battlefield.”

Officials say they plan to start fielding about 60,000 Type III uniforms and 10,000 Type II uniforms in the spring of 2011.

[Arnie100]

Why not just adopt MARPAT?? Oh, wait...

[Death.]

They will call it "Marpat Lite"

Notice how they changed the hue of the model's skin to make him better match the uniform colors? Go Navy.

[Rakki]

Marines show the rest of the Navy how it's done.
And the Army too, really.

[LaoSexMachine]

Waste of money. The Secretary of Defense need to tell these generals and admirals to CTFO.

[KEEPER0311]

Waste of money. The Secretary of Defense need to tell these generals and admirals to CTFO.

QFT. Why the hell does the majority of the Navy need camouflage uniforms? The chunk of Navy that does need utilize camouflage can easily adopt MARPAT, or stick with the old Tri-color deserts.

[Alpheus]

Apparently there is a lot of sand on the ocean. And trees 'n' green ****. I never knew that.

[wild_wild_wes]

For land operations, of course.

Interesting: The Desert version is the exact same as Desert MARPAT, with darker colors. The Woodland, on the other hand, is a lot greener, and has the pattern turned to vertical, for some reason.

[Special-K]

IIRc these patterns are also known as AOR1 and AOR2. They have been in use by some 'operator' types - I believe mainly SEALS. They are actually the same pattern as MARPAT, just with different colors. The same can be said for the ARMY's ACU and the Canadian Woodland CADPAT - they are all the same actual pattern, just different colors (the ACU only uses 3 of the printing screens though).

Actually, CADPAT came first, then the AOR patterns. The AOR patterns were actually prototype MARPAT patterns, but the Marines changed the colors in their final MARPAT. After the final MARPAT designs were selected, the Army went and came up with the ACU pattern.

I'm pretty sure I have this right, but I could be confused.....





-K

[wild_wild_wes]

You are right Special-K, these are the AORs, but I think this is a new, official designation that supercedes the term "AOR".

[Clear_blues]

Apparently there is a lot of sand on the ocean. And trees 'n' green ****. I never knew that.
seaweed ya know

[Skukuza]

Looks the same as all the current stuff.
What a drain on the available cash.

[Bro Jangles]

navy has better camo than the army.... bring back woodlands.

[joeyl]

So the Navy comes out with a badass 2 environment digital uniform for sailors while the Army is still struggling with the "ACUs will work in the twilight hours at a distance of 500m, in the rain while the enemy has pink eye" arguement. You know what screw it let's just take the digital AUSCAM, darken the OD in it, and put a star on it and say its patented I don't feel like waiting 3 more years when the answer is right there.

[Snapdad]

Camo that works and protects the wearer? Army will hate it.

[cavsalute]

Camo that works and protects the wearer? Army will hate it.

The Army is switching to multicam..... slowly, but they are doing it.

[Blasphemy]

The Army is switching to multicam..... slowly, but they are doing it.

only in afghanistan last I heard.

honestly this is a waste of money, they are using marpat now anyway why not just keep doing that? Of course we aren't going to let our corpsman wear his blue and white digital uniform on patrol in a desert country.

[cavsalute]

only in afghanistan last I heard.

honestly this is a waste of money, they are using marpat now anyway why not just keep doing that? Of course we aren't going to let our corpsman wear his blue and white digital uniform on patrol in a desert country.

Yeah so far it has only been in A-stan. They have not announced any plans to completely replace the ACU as the current duty uniform. Although I don't think the ACU works very well in a lot of places (woodland, etc) It actually is not that bad in some places, especially when it's dirty and covered with dust. But it's not ideal and far from universal as the name implies.

[Blasphemy]

Why waste the money and go to one uniform for all the services? I know, I know, too much sense there, my bad...

well it used to be that way, all the services wore tri-color woodland uniforms but each service still has its own rank structures and insignias to wear on each uniform, thats were the cost is...not necessarily the pattern on the uniform.

[Bro Jangles]

well it used to be that way, all the services wore tri-color woodland uniforms but each service still has its own rank structures and insignias to wear on each uniform, thats were the cost is...not necessarily the pattern on the uniform.
i think minions knows, he was in when they still wore federal blue.

[Snapdad]

Yeah so far it has only been in A-stan. They have not announced any plans to completely replace the ACU as the current duty uniform. Although I don't think the ACU works very well in a lot of places (woodland, etc) It actually is not that bad in some places, especially when it's dirty and covered with dust. But it's not ideal and far from universal as the name implies.

It is "too expensive" is the reason why they haven't made it service wide I suspect. Troops getting shot at in Iraq must love this. "Sorry you aren't the main theater these days".

[Bro Jangles]

It is "too expensive" is the reason why they haven't made it service wide I suspect. Troops getting shot at in Iraq must love this. "Sorry you aren't the main theater these days".
having never been, Iraq is more of a urban desert area, where multicam woulb be as usefull as woodland BDUs.

[budgie]

Dumb question - what does AOR stand for?

[Knight216]

Dumb question - what does AOR stand for?


Isn't it "Area Of Responsibility" ?

[dersammler]

Correct.
..

[Corrupt]

Why waste the money and go to one uniform for all the services? I know, I know, too much sense there, my bad...

I always wondered that.
British forces, everyone wears DPM with the appropriate branches rank slide placed on the front of the smock/shirt. How difficult is that?

[Snapdad]

having never been, Iraq is more of a urban desert area, where multicam woulb be as usefull as woodland BDUs.


Woodland BDUs are a lot darker and woodland specialized than MC. SOC uses MC in Iraq because it works quite well there too. Iraq actually has more variety to it than people realize with green areas near the rivers and such.

Why the Army doesnt adopt MC for Iraq when it is proven to work well there is the speculative part and I suspect it has a lot to do with money, plus admitting ACU is crap is embarrassing and of course that war is being fazed out rapidly so no one really cares much at this point. Plus Iraq was always more of a patrolling from inside of armored vehicles war than Afghanistan so camo is relatively less important. I remember some complaining that 3 color desert made them stick out so it had it's detractors too.

[budgie]

If the Army is going Multicam they should at least go with teh 'digital' version, to remain fashionable. Other than that I don't see the need for specialized camos except perhaps something just for the open desert. Everyone's seen the MC pics (promo and in action) by now and it clearly works almost everywhere.

[Victor1]

They're the fvcking navy, they stay in ships. What the fvck do they need camouflage for?

PS: the SWCC can borrow their cammo from the marines.

[Bro Jangles]

They're the fvcking navy, they stay in ships. What the fvck do they need camouflage for?

PS: the SWCC can borrow their cammo from the marines.
wow man.... you have 0 knowledge of the navy.... lets see;

-Corpsman- wear Marpat
- IA's - generally wear uniform of branch attached to
- MA's - guard places ships go, they kinda need to harbor every now and then
- Airdales- not all Aircraft are Carrier borne, hell there is a squadron on EA6Bs in Afghanistan
- Other rates attached to those land bases
- and Seebees- fighting construction men kinda need a uniform

of coarse, Swcc, SEALs.

[Corrupt]

They're the fvcking navy, they stay in ships. What the fvck do they need camouflage for?

PS: the SWCC can borrow their cammo from the marines.

You're posting a lot of derogatory stuff about stuff you apparantly dont know that much about...

[Dominique]

wow man.... you have 0 knowledge of the navy.... lets see;

-Corpsman- wear Marpat
- IA's - generally wear uniform of branch attached to
- MA's - guard places ships go, they kinda need to harbor every now and then
- Airdales- not all Aircraft are Carrier borne, hell there is a squadron on EA6Bs in Afghanistan
- Other rates attached to those land bases
- and Seebees- fighting construction men kinda need a uniform

of coarse, Swcc, SEALs.

You also forgot to mention the RIVRON Squadrons, EOD, Mobile Security Squadrons, Customs Battalions, Maritime Civil Affairs, JCSE, etc.

[Snapdad]

If the Army is going Multicam they should at least go with teh 'digital' version, to remain fashionable. Other than that I don't see the need for specialized camos except perhaps something just for the open desert. Everyone's seen the MC pics (promo and in action) by now and it clearly works almost everywhere.

What "digital version" is that?

[lt tahoe]

You're posting a lot of derogatory stuff about stuff you apparantly dont know that much about...

I'm curious, too--what percentage of Navy personnel actually serve on land in, or near, combat? Put another way--what percentage of Navy personnel needed to wear BDUs back before they started changing uniforms? I'm betting the number was (and is) pretty low. Same goes for the Air Force. I'm with the "one cross-service camo" camp, though.

[Bro Jangles]

I'm curious, too--what percentage of Navy personnel actually serve on land in, or near, combat? Put another way--what percentage of Navy personnel needed to wear BDUs back before they started changing uniforms? I'm betting the number was (and is) pretty low. Same goes for the Air Force. I'm with the "one cross-service camo" camp, though.


wow man.... you have 0 knowledge of the navy.... lets see;

-Corpsman- wear Marpat
- IA's - generally wear uniform of branch attached to
- MA's - guard places ships go, they kinda need to harbor every now and then
- Airdales- not all Aircraft are Carrier borne, hell there is a squadron on EA6Bs in Afghanistan
- Other rates attached to those land bases
- and Seebees- fighting construction men kinda need a uniform

of coarse, Swcc, SEALs.


You also forgot to mention the RIVRON Squadrons, EOD, Mobile Security Squadrons, Customs Battalions, Maritime Civil Affairs, JCSE, etc.
A lot.........

[Corrupt]

I'm curious, too--what percentage of Navy personnel actually serve on land in, or near, combat? Put another way--what percentage of Navy personnel needed to wear BDUs back before they started changing uniforms? I'm betting the number was (and is) pretty low. Same goes for the Air Force. I'm with the "one cross-service camo" camp, though.

I agree with the one camo for all the services idea.
But there are a huge number of navy and airforce personell who need some kind of "combats", as have been listed. It was also the way he phrased it

[brainplay]

Why the Army doesnt adopt MC for Iraq when it is proven to work well there is the speculative part and I suspect it has a lot to do with money,

The camo trials are still ongoing. MC was a stop gap measure. It ranked in as #3 during the original tests. We had a thread earlier which went over this and showed examples of the top patterns. All Over Brush being the #1 but never made it to a Tom Clancy video game or having the push that Cryes PR team seems to have (they can sell water to a fish).

Additionally, they're still debating on a universal equipment color. We had that discussion here as well and many are hoping for coyote brown.

Why a universal pattern instead of a dual pattern like the USMC is using? Did everyone already forget the hodge podge of colors during the original Desert Storm? Tri-color with Woodland webgear or packs. NBC gear and most vehicles were still a nice olive drab which stood out EVERYWHERE.

[joeyl]

I was thinking about the All-over Brush pattern. Didn't it preform very well in the trials and if we really want to be "keeping up with the Jones" about it is it possibel to pixilate it?

[Snapdad]

The camo trials are still ongoing. MC was a stop gap measure. It ranked in as #3 during the original tests. We had a thread earlier which went over this and showed examples of the top patterns. All Over Brush being the #1 but never made it to a Tom Clancy video game or having the push that Cryes PR team seems to have (they can sell water to a fish).

Additionally, they're still debating on a universal equipment color. We had that discussion here as well and many are hoping for coyote brown.

Why a universal pattern instead of a dual pattern like the USMC is using? Did everyone already forget the hodge podge of colors during the original Desert Storm? Tri-color with Woodland webgear or packs. NBC gear and most vehicles were still a nice olive drab which stood out EVERYWHERE.

The original test wasnt the only test and I thought MC came in second on that one after all over brush. What else beat it btw? MC handily won the latest test and the British and SOC also seem to think it is very good. It is expensive however with the 7 colors or whatever.

The obvious problems with 2 patterns is not always having the right one for the terrain if it is varied as in Afghanistan and the problem of what to do with gear. Solid colors are known not to be anywhere near as effective, hence the preference for camouflage patters. Covering a third of your body with a solid color compromises the effectiveness of the pattern as one should expect.

[wild_wild_wes]

The Army is switching to multicam..... slowly, but they are doing it.

Don't think so....the current Army camo trials request a woodland and desert dual pattern system, so I think MC is not going to be around for long.

Goddammit, they should just adopt AOR service-wide.

[Snapdad]

Don't think so....the current Army camo trials request a woodland and desert dual pattern system, so I think MC is not going to be around for long.

Goddammit, they should just adopt AOR service-wide.

If it comes with intermediate AOR for the gear then that would be exactly what they are looking for.

[KillerBD]

All the branches of the military should just adopt Multicam and end this stupid nonsense...

Wait a second, that makes perfect sense!
...
Therefore we can not have one camouflage for all services, for it makes far too much sense; saves too much $$$, makes logistics simpler, and is by far the best overall option.

So that is why we can't do it that way. Is simply too logical and has too much common sense involved for the military to go for it. We really need to over-complicate the **** out of the whole process. Develope far too many prototypes than neccessary, spend too much money on R&D, test and retest again, then 10 years from now after spending billions of dollars on R&D for a new camouflage system... Declare that new camoflage is not neccessary anymore and we should now focus attention towards "big ticket" items like smart bombs and self-dissolving toilet-paper that melts in your sweaty hands before you can get it up into your crack...

It's all stupid nonsense, therefore it must be the military's way of running things. If it's confusing as hell and seemingly illogical, then it must be right.

There's the right way of doing things, the wrong way, ...and the military way. <In that order of what is most logical.

In fact often times it feels as though logic isn't even on the same planet, I don't think it's been discovered yet.

[Red_Fern]

Jesus...pretty soon we're gonna pass the Russians for the number of different camouflage uniforms in service! :cantbeli:

Remember the days when everyone had woodland BDUs and everything was good?

[Snapdad]

Jesus...pretty soon we're gonna pass the Russians for the number of different camouflage uniforms in service! :cantbeli:

Remember the days when everyone had woodland BDUs and everything was good?

What about branding? I need the LL Bean Edition!

[Switek]

They should adopt Multicam. Every badass wears it!

[budgie]

What "digital version" is that?

There's a pixellated Multicam pattern using the same blend and ratio of colors out there. I don't know if it's Crye's patent or a copycat but it sure looks sexy.

[Bro Jangles]

There's a pixellated Multicam pattern using the same blend and ratio of colors out there. I don't know if it's Crye's patent or a copycat but it sure looks sexy.
isnt the brit MC digitalized?

[Catch22]

Nope, its rather DPM-ized - using some features of the classic British pattern.

[brainplay]

The original test wasnt the only test and I thought MC came in second on that one after all over brush. What else beat it btw?

From wiki:
Desert All Over Brush was found to be significantly more effective than the other three patterns during daytime, with the highest rating in desert and urban environments.
There were no major differences between MultiCam, Woodland Track, or Urban Track.
MultiCam received the highest ratings in woodland environments, but rated low in other environments.
Woodland Track scored several points lower than Desert All Over Brush.
Urban Track was usually the third or fourth worst performer at every site, with the exception of one urban test, However, it was also found to be the best nighttime performer.


MC handily won the latest test and the British and SOC also seem to think it is very good. It is expensive however with the 7 colors or whatever.

The latest test was the stop gap brown on ACU vs. MC. That wasn't much of a trial to be honest. MC was chosen for that trial since it's in abundance and can get had "right now". The other patterns are not being made wholesale for use by airsofters and range queens.

I realize that MC is a popular pattern due to video games and later SF picking it up. But I still can't get over how everyone is quick to go for it instead of the pattern that beat it out in the trials. I mean, we're supposed to try for "the best".

[Snapdad]

The latest test was the stop gap brown on ACU vs. MC. That wasn't much of a trial to be honest.

Incorrect. They did an advanced photo comparison of at least 6 mostly all-terrain patters including all the usual suspects and MC performed best by far. You are referring to the wear test which was a far lesser part of the evaluation. Do a search of the threads here and easily available info elsewhere.

[Delta Niner]

Apparently there is a lot of sand on the ocean. And trees 'n' green ****. I never knew that.

well the Pacific Ocean is relatively green :)

[orionhawk]

The NWU (the blue digicam worn by the fleet) was adopted primarily because the previous "working" uniform (utilities) sucked really hard for actual working wear on a ship (paint, grease, rust, drips, and lots and lots of things to snag a fragile uniform on), and the digi pattern helps hide minor paint and grease spots. I love these things. they also have a *%$^load of HUGE pockets, and the shirt covers the belt (I carry or wear a lot of tools).

The new tan cammies are for SpecWar/SpecOps and deployed Sand Sailors (SeaBees and MA's really do make up a notable chunk of the Navy at this time, and only people actually assigned to FMF wear MARPAT), and the foliage will be worn by MA's and security personnel ashore. again, the new uniform is more because we needed to fix the failings of the old, and might as well update the appearance while we're at it.

and I, for one, am beginning to get seriously annoyed at people who know exactly jack squat about the Navy bitching about our uniform decisions. the joke was old last year.

[kerim]

bring back feldgrau and khaki

[Switek]

It's almost brought. Look carefully on foliage green and coyote brown... ;)

[brainplay]

Incorrect. They did an advanced photo comparison of at least 6 mostly all-terrain patters including all the usual suspects and MC performed best by far. You are referring to the wear test which was a far lesser part of the evaluation. Do a search of the threads here and easily available info elsewhere.

The 6 pattern test are part of the Natick trials and still ongoing. MC was not the best performer and would like to know where you heard that. MC has never been the "best" performer in any test except the stop gap Afghanistan ACU vs. MC trial. The stop gap test was conducted at the same time as the main test due to an immediate requirement for that theater only. MC was chosen to compete since it was the only pattern that was in production already and didn't need excessive tooling to mass produce. Whoever wins the main trial will be selected as the new UCP.

135528
Multicam, Mirage and Desert Brush all blend better than the rest in this photo, but Desert Brush is the only one in which I can detect a useful macro-pattern. This feature is important for reducing long-range identification of the wearer, and was a key aspect of the design of the superlative Canadian Cadpat ‘temperate’ and ‘arid’ digital patterns.

[Snapdad]

The 6 pattern test are part of the Natick trials and still ongoing. MC was not the best performer and would like to know where you heard that. MC has never been the "best" performer in any test except the stop gap Afghanistan ACU vs. MC trial. The stop gap test was conducted at the same time as the main test due to an immediate requirement for that theater only. MC was chosen to compete since it was the only pattern that was in production already and didn't need excessive tooling to mass produce. Whoever wins the main trial will be selected as the new UCP.

135528
Multicam, Mirage and Desert Brush all blend better than the rest in this photo, but Desert Brush is the only one in which I can detect a useful macro-pattern. This feature is important for reducing long-range identification of the wearer, and was a key aspect of the design of the superlative Canadian Cadpat ‘temperate’ and ‘arid’ digital patterns.

GG (and others) already spelled this out in detail out numerous times on this site. PM him for his credentials. The photo simulation study was indeed part of Phase II.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?159255-New-Camo-for-Afghan...wha/page45

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/09/26/camo-for-afghanistan-the-rest-of-the-story-2/

http://soldiersystems.net/2010/08/11/ocp-update/

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?174674-MULTI-CAM-for-AFGHANISTAN-(It-s-Official)&highlight=camo

[budgie]

Yes but which is the most fashionable?

[lt tahoe]

Reviving this debate, after forgetting about it for a bit...I'm still not convinced on those numbers for the Navy (or Air Force). I know Bravo Juliet and Dominique gave examples, but come on....so maybe there are 100k personnel in the Navy who might see ground combat. Maybe 50k in the Air Force. Sound reasonable?

The Navy is a bit over 400k personnel, overall. And the Air Force is around 500k personnel, right? So 150k out of those 900k personnel could wear a combat uniform in common with the Marines or Army, and not waste our money with their own, special uniforms.

These days, with government spending what it is, and with overall deficits what they are, and with the amount of money we're spending (or have recently spent) on fairly superfluous military ops, why waste that?

[z_bumbi]

Why a universal pattern instead of a dual pattern like the USMC is using? Did everyone already forget the hodge podge of colors during the original Desert Storm? Tri-color with Woodland webgear or packs. NBC gear and most vehicles were still a nice olive drab which stood out EVERYWHERE.

There is a pretty simple solution to that. Make most gear in a color pattern that matches the colors patterns of uniforms for woodland and dessert. Brown, greyish and tan or just brown and tan. During longer deployments or training in the same place for a longer time change some gear to the "right" colors.
As an exempel for woodland. Use a woodland uniform, the same vest in brown and tan and change some or all the pockets to dark and light green ones or use the same pattern as the uniforms have but reduce the brown and tans part.
For extra effect add some rolls of 1" wide IR treated bands to weave in the pals or just use the same fabric as in the uniforms to add larger patches in the right color.

[ayanami_tard]

i miss the good old sailor uniform

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5221/081125seifuku1main.jpg





....

sorry couldn't resist

[Bro Jangles]

Reviving this debate, after forgetting about it for a bit...I'm still not convinced on those numbers for the Navy (or Air Force). I know Bravo Juliet and Dominique gave examples, but come on....so maybe there are 100k personnel in the Navy who might see ground combat. Maybe 50k in the Air Force. Sound reasonable?

The Navy is a bit over 400k personnel, overall. And the Air Force is around 500k personnel, right? So 150k out of those 900k personnel could wear a combat uniform in common with the Marines or Army, and not waste our money with their own, special uniforms.

These days, with government spending what it is, and with overall deficits what they are, and with the amount of money we're spending (or have recently spent) on fairly superfluous military ops, why waste that?
Sure they may not see ground "combat", but plenty of sailors, way more than your number will be Shore based doing something that the NWU is not suited for.

[SilentType]

Navy's mission is evolving to include dealing increasingly with pirates and terrorist threats that threaten vital shipping lanes, ports, and harbors. I think the need for a camo pattern is readily apparent.