Israeli theatre folk say 'no' to settlement performances

[xav]

JERUSALEM — Leading lights of the Israeli theatre world have vowed to boycott Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank, drawing threats from right-wingers who say the rebels risk losing public funding.

A petition signed by 53 performers, writers and directors, including Yehoshua Sobol, Yossi Pollak, Yousef Sweid, Anat Gov and Savyon Liebrecht, said they would not take part in a planned performance at a new cultural centre in the northern West Bank settlement of Ariel.

"Ariel is in occupied territory and no Israeli artist should have to take part in a production in occupied territory, not in Ariel nor in any other settlement when it is against international law," Sobol, a renowned playwright and satirist, told Israeli public radio on Sunday.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jOgrf0apdOMbOjchpzU4Yd3Lkb_w

[PsychoDude]

Great move! it is about time we get the fuсk out of there

[PeterG]

The settlers - and the islamists on the arab side, are both major obstacles to peace and stability. That's just the way it is. When both sides get rid of the 'religious' (deranged) people that claim 'God' have given them the right to do whatever they damned well please, and that 'God' doesn't want peace, but actually an endless stream of more blood.. Then there will be peace. When the rational people start talking.

[d_man]

The settlers - and the islamists on the arab side, are both major obstacles to peace and stability. That's just the way it is. When both sides get rid of the 'religious' (deranged) people that claim 'God' have given them the right to do whatever they damned well please, and that 'God' doesn't want peace, but actually an endless stream of more blood.. Then there will be peace. When the rational people start talking.

Not that it really matters but most settlers aren't even religious..

[RoyB]

I have a feeling nobody browsing around here has ever been to Ariel, so I'll just say that its not your typical settlement and the chances of it being a part of any future Palestinian state are relatively low, it seems.

[RoyB]

Not that it really matters but most settlers aren't even religious..
You have numbers or you're just assuming?

[tanks_alot]

The settlers - and the islamists on the arab side, are both major obstacles to peace and stability. That's just the way it is. When both sides get rid of the 'religious' (deranged) people that claim 'God' have given them the right to do whatever they damned well please, and that 'God' doesn't want peace, but actually an endless stream of more blood.. Then there will be peace. When the rational people start talking.

Not that i'm a great fan of the whole settlement enterprise, but many people live in Ariel because it's cheap, plus there are a lot of young, very secular people living there because they are studying in the Ariel universty.

It's one city that doesn't have a lot to do with ideology.

[d_man]

You have numbers or you're just assuming?
I was talking about Ariel..
Not sure about the rest of the west bank

[alexz]

I have a feeling nobody browsing around here has ever been to Ariel, so I'll just say that its not your typical settlement and the chances of it being a part of any future Palestinian state are relatively low, it seems.

Many Israelis like Psychodude got no clue that Ariel has a large Russian athiest population or the nature of their relation with its Arab neighboors.
After being exposed to the best of Russian theatre they must be as thrilled to watch the Israeli actors like Mancheter United fans would be excited to watch Israeli soccer league games.
Anyway, the actors scored an own goal with the public being outraged against their disguasting hypocritical action. There are calls all over Israel to boycott those performers, their shows and many Israelis are canceling their memeberships in the Cameri.

[Octavariable]

Most of those artists, have also dodged military draft, and frequently support anti-Israel agendas, coincidence? :roll:

[RoyB]

Like already said, Ariel is one place that doesn't really fit under the 'crazy fanatical settlement' column.
Its a city, inhabited by different sets of people.. Be it religious guys, Russians, or students studying in the university.
People who live there permanently are mostly a part of the more weak section of the population, given its a cheap place to live in.

Though I got to say, those actors obviously have every right to say what they say and do what they do, as its a part of democracy, whether we like it or not.

[Moledet]

The settlers - and the islamists on the arab side, are both major obstacles to peace and stability. That's just the way it is. When both sides get rid of the 'religious' (deranged) people that claim 'God' have given them the right to do whatever they damned well please, and that 'God' doesn't want peace, but actually an endless stream of more blood.. Then there will be peace. When the rational people start talking.
I suggest you and the artists visit Ariel first. It's an Israeli city not a settlement. kthnxbye.
What they are boycotting aren't the normal consumers of culture that can take the 30 minutes drive to Tel Aviv, but mostly students in school that part of their curriculum and education is watching perofmrnaces by Israeli actors and schools can't afford driving them around the country in busses to watch these artists perform.

P.S. with all due respect to the artists, their paycheck is paid by Israelis as part of the taxes. Ariel residents pay these taxes as well. You can't accept money from Ariel residents and at the same time boycott them. Don't like it? Go and build your own theatre and don't ask for any money from the state.

[PsychoDude]

Many Israelis like Psychodude got no clue that Ariel has a large Russian athiest population or the nature of their relation with its Arab neighboors.
After being exposed to the best of Russian theatre they must be as thrilled to watch the Israeli actors like Mancheter United fans would be excited to watch Israeli soccer league games.
Anyway, the actors scored an own goal with the public being outraged against their disguasting hypocritical action. There are calls all over Israel to boycott those performers, their shows and many Israelis are canceling their memeberships in the Cameri.

How is it relevant that they are atheist/secular/or whatever? they are outside Israeli border on occupied territory backed by backward/stupid/invalid/fanatic government, be they angels it still wont change the FACTS, im an atheist and of a Russian descent so fuсking what? i condemn all of them.

[NimDod]

How is it relevant that they are atheist/secular/or whatever? they are outside Israeli border on occupied territory backed by backward/stupid/invalid/fanatic government, be they angels it still wont change the FACTS, im an atheist and of a Russian descent so fuсking what? i condemn all of them.

Some would say that all of Israel is "occupied territory".
what's the difference between Ariel which the terrioroty it was built on was conquered in 1967 to Haifa which it's territory was conquered only 19 years earlier?
the "boarder" you speak of never existed - the greenline marked the 1949 scese fire lines, which were never considered a boarder between 1949 to 1967.
Ariel, by the way, was created when the Left "Maarach" (today's Labor) party was in power, and it's a pretty big city now. In any agreement, even if Meretz party was in power, it would stay in Israel.

it seems like you are very unfimiliar with some of your "FACTS". I suggest you do some readying before you condemn things you know so little about.

[TheEvian100]

How are places like Ariel supposed to be governed by Israel once a hypothetically peaceful Palestianian State (at least in West Bank..) is established? As isolated enclaves?

I tried looking for it on Google maps and it seems to be pretty much right in the middle of w.B.

[NimDod]

How are places like Ariel supposed to be governed by Israel once a hypothetically peaceful Palestianian State (at least in West Bank..) is established? As isolated enclaves?
Ariel is supposed to be a part of Israel after a future agreement is signed.
It's territory (and territory west of it) is supposed to be echanged with an equal size of land from the western side of the green-line.
It's surrounder by Palestinian towns and villages from the north, south and east, just like the city of Jerusalem, so it's not completely isolated (unlike some small settlements in the w.b)


I tried looking for it on Google maps and it seems to be pretty much right in the middle of w.B.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/1576/israelsecurityfencefeb2.jpg

[BroCalFur01]

How is it relevant that they are atheist/secular/or whatever? they are outside Israeli border on occupied territory backed by backward/stupid/invalid/fanatic government, be they angels it still wont change the FACTS, im an atheist and of a Russian descent so fuсking what? i condemn all of them.

Do you really think the arabs accept any border there? Israel wouldn't gain anything from another retreat.

[Clear_blues]

Sorry to drag the thread backward, but is the settlement situation sorta like the American West? Where the religous folks wanted to preach and convert, but the vast majority of people out there were there for the cheap land and opportunities?

[TheEvian100]

Ariel is supposed to be a part of Israel after a future agreement is signed.
It's territory (and territory west of it) is supposed to be echanged with an equal size of land from the western side of the green-line.
It's surrounder by Palestinian towns and villages from the north, south and east, just like the city of Jerusalem, so it's not completely isolated (unlike some small settlements in the w.b)

Hmm interesting to know. Thanks for the info! So Israel official policy right now is to keep everything inside the pink line and leave the rest for the Palestinians? Sounds generous, very generous.

[alexz]

How is it relevant that they are atheist/secular/or whatever? they are outside Israeli border on occupied territory backed by backward/stupid/invalid/fanatic government, be they angels it still wont change the FACTS, im an atheist and of a Russian descent so fuсking what? i condemn all of them.

How did you determine before any final peace agreement what inside or outside Israel???? Why do you think that Palestinians think that Haifa or Tel Aviv, where unlike Ariel, Arabs actualy used to live in?

Ariel was built in 1978 and expanded rapidly with thousands of Soviet Jews in the early 90s by Rabin's right wing fantical government. The facts are that that facts don't matter to left wing fantaics that live on the ruins of Arabs villeges like Shaykh Muwannis and call to boycott Israel and Jews that live in peace with Arabs for decades. As always the far left wing only manages to make the right more popular and many of the hypocritocal "actors" already diassociate them selves for the letter they signed. More proof that the far left is motivated by populist acts to adbance their own materialistic goals on the backs of Jews, Arabs and whoi ever is dumb enough to fund them.

[Fat Lazy American]

How are places like Ariel supposed to be governed by Israel once a hypothetically peaceful Palestianian State (at least in West Bank..) is established? As isolated enclaves?

I tried looking for it on Google maps and it seems to be pretty much right in the middle of w.B.

Right in the middle of the West Bank or on hilltops in the suburbs of Tel Aviv. Depends on how you look at it.

[JGXL836]

Some of these artists who were listed deny any intention to boycott anything.

Some sort of fraud going on...

[RoyB]

Sorry to drag the thread backward, but is the settlement situation sorta like the American West? Where the religous folks wanted to preach and convert, but the vast majority of people out there were there for the cheap land and opportunities?
No...........

[TheEvian100]

Right in the middle of the West Bank or on hilltops in the suburbs of Tel Aviv. Depends on how you look at it.

The areas within the pink line on that map seem to be feasible in keeping under control, but what about those blue dots, just on the border with Jordan? What's gonna happen to those neighbourhoods and towns deep in W.B.?

[NimDod]

The areas within the pink line on that map seem to be feasible in keeping under control, but what about those blue dots, just on the border with Jordan? What's gonna happen to those neighbourhoods and towns deep in W.B.?

Those which are not close enough to the "green line" will probably be abandoned in the future agreement.
the ones which will be kept in Israel will be the large blocks that can be connected to pre-67 Israel (like Ariel and other smaller towns) and the large neighbourhoods next to Jerusalem (like Maale Edumim and Givat Ze'ev).

[sheytanelkebir]

Hmm interesting to know. Thanks for the info! So Israel official policy right now is to keep everything inside the pink line and leave the rest for the Palestinians? Sounds generous, very generous.

no its the other way round. the "pink line" is the 1967 border, and the red line is what israel's offering now.

in this map ariel is not yet "in israel" (the barrier is still under construction)... but once it is included, then the "red line" will cut further into the WB.

[TheEvian100]

no its the other way round. the "pink line" is the 1967 border

We're talking about Ariel and that map has a thin pink line around it (that's what we discussed before, not the thick pink line). :)

Given what the map shows and what other members said, most West bank will not become part of Israel, which is good news.

[NimDod]

Given what the map shows and what other members said, most West bank will not become part of Israel.
That's correct.
It seems that what is currently discussed is which lands will be replaced - lands from the west of the green line (including a passage way from the west bank to Gaza that could be used if and when the Hamas returns the rule to the PLO) in exchange for an equal amount of lands from the east side of the green line (i.e. main settlement blocks (like Ariel), areas that are not inhabited by palestinians).

[Breerman]

I recently while driving listened to radio documentary about Swedish Jews who had migrated to Israel and become settlers. They sounded normal, their kid however that had grown up there seemed a bit extreme.

[TheEvian100]

That's correct.
It seems that what is currently discussed is which lands will be replaced - lands from the west of the green line (including a passage way from the west bank to Gaza that could be used if and when the Hamas returns the rule to the PLO) in exchange for an equal amount of lands from the east side of the green line (i.e. main settlement blocks (like Ariel), areas that are not inhabited by palestinians).

Passage way, that could be ideal for them. And that passage way, will it be Palestinian soil all the way through? Or something like the East German highways connecting Berlin to West Germany?

Either way I hope this issue is settled and Hamas farks off gaza forever.

[NimDod]

Passage way, that could be ideal for them. And that passage way, will it be Palestinian soil all the way through? Or something like the East German highways connecting Berlin to West Germany?

Either way I hope this issue is settled and Hamas farks off gaza forever.

before the 2000 Intifada, there were already roads from the west bank to Gaza that were supposed to be used by Palestinians. I'm pretty sure that they were supposed to be used by Israelies as well, and I clearly remember the road signs next to that road (in Kiryat Gat area, I think) that showed the direction to Gaza and the amount of kilometers left to get there.
I read a few days ago that now they plan that the road from the w.b to Gaza would actually be a train routh, or some kind of road that would be built on an upper platform.

I think it would take more than a few years before Hamas gives away it's power, specially now when most of the blockade has been lifted. Even if Israel and the PLO did sign a peace treaty, it wouldnt change anything with the other terrorist groups, like the Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, Tanzim, etc.

[NimDod]

I recently while driving listened to radio documentary about Swedish Jews who had migrated to Israel and become settlers. They sounded normal, their kid however that had grown up there seemed a bit extreme.

90% of the residents of Ariel are secular, and are pretty normal. At least the ones I know are.
Ariel is in the consensus of the Israeli public, just like the Givat Ze'ev north of Jerusalem. This is one of the reasons why the Israeli public did not accept the "theatre folk" statement, specially when people of Ariel pay the same taxes as people living west of the freen line - the same taxes that pay the bill for most of the theaters in Israel which get most of their funding from the state and not from selling tickets.

[OrangeWolf]

Ariel university is also used by Arabs, Druze and others.