ATF to get new handguns

[Laconian]

For the last year or so the agency has been testing and looking for a new handgun. SIG, S&W and Glock submitted weapons. Both S&W:
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=e121e835387839577bc2b57c2897e987&tab=core&_cview=0

& Glock:
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=bd51b091482215c94c1c9c89b799f26f&tab=core&_cview=0

Have been awarded contracts to provide the new ATF handgun. For Glock it will be the new Gen 4 Models 22 & 27. For S&W it will be the M&P 40 and the M&P 40C. No word yet on what is going to be issued to the agents.

[Policía Loco]

Why are they wanting a new weapon? And what is being used now?

[Dan2004]

I thought Bureau weapons were chambered in 10mm? Or is that out of style now?

[Laconian]

SIG P229s (some P226s) are issued as the primaries and SIG P239s are issued as the BUGs/secondaries, all in .40 S&W. The SIG contract had expired.

[Geezah]

The reason SIG aren't being considered this go around doesn't have anything to do with quality does it? Just the cost?

[Laconian]

I thoght Bureau weapons were chambered in 10mm? Or is that out of style now?

The FBI went briefly to the 10mm (on a S&W pistol, the 1076(?)), however they found the round too difficult for most folks to run and the pistol too large for smaller statured folks handle. The FBI now issues the Glock 23.

ATF and FBI are different agencies, ATF never carried the 10mm. They went from Ruger Security Sixes to SIG P228s/P226s in 9mm and then switched to the P229/P226 in .40 S&W.

[Laconian]

The reason SIG aren't being considered this go around doesn't have anything to do with quality does it? Just the cost?

Geezah, SIG submitted the P250, but it didn't do well in the testing and was eliminated. They grieved it (sued) but it was dismissed.

[USMC29]

The FBI still uses the 10mm in their MP5 variant right?

[Geezah]

Thanks for that.

I've been reading alot about SIGs quality taking a major dive since the new boss came on board, and was curious as to whether or not this is going to affect all aspects of the market for SIG, not just the civilian side.

[Laconian]

The FBI still uses the 10mm in their MP5 variant right?

No idea, sorry.

[Arnie100]

The FBI still uses the 10mm in their MP5 variant right?

The MP5 10mm was discontinued in 2000 and the FBI switched back to the 9mm version and the M4 carbine (AFAIK). This is interesting:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/07/fbi-purchasing-40-sw-ar-15-carbines/

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=6ac219a2e12e8aedc2755b3053e32af1&tab=core&_cview=0&cck=1&au=&ck=

[Laconian]

IMHO there is nothing a .40 carbine does better than a 5.56. We got rid of our MP5s went to M4s and kept our 14" barreled Remington 870 shotguns.

[Arnie100]

Honestly, I don't know why the FBI's going to adopt a .40S&W carbine myself. Maybe to save on ammunition costs and training? Since they use .40 Glocks?

[He219]

Argh, the P226/229 will still outperform new S&W and Glock models.
Why replace something that isn't broken? Smells like pork bbl spending to me.

[HR24]

My agency weapon these days is a Sig P229 DAK chambered for .40SW. All I will say is this, the trigger pull is a f*cking mile long, and when coming from a Glock 19 9mm, and going to a double action only weapon chambered at a hotter round, patterns start expanding. I have a love hate relationship with my Sig. Some range days I love it, and others I would toss it into a river.

My hope is, when our Sig contract runs out, we shift over to the HK USP. That is a good shooting gun IMHO.

I pray and dream for the day that they allow us to carry .45's.

[HR24]

Argh, the P226/229 will still outperform new S&W and Glock models.
Why replace something that isn't broken? Smells like pork bbl spending to me.

When we switched over from Glock to Sig, there were strong indications that it was done due to a romantic relationship between an SES in my outfit and a high-ranking exec with Sig.

[He219]

lol, HR24.

I was referring to German made Sig Sauer models ...
The new owners and domestic production significantly compromise QC compared to previous generations.

[Clear_blues]

go classic, go with Colt .45 revolvers.

[HR24]

lol, HR24.

I was referring to German made Sig Sauer models ...
The new owners and domestic production significantly compromise QC compared to previous generations.

Copy that. It's funny though-our FI guys tend to love the P229, especially those at Benning. They can shoot the sh*t out of it. Conversely, the field agents would prefer the HK or Glock. Point is our FI guys get more range time with it, while your standard agent gets a quarterly go at it with a lazy local FI. I have just found it to be a very unforgiving weapon 15-25 yards out.

[HR24]

go classic, go with Colt .45 revolvers.

I wish. Laconian can set me straight on this, but the Bureau can carry a 1911 variant. I can't recall if it is reserved for their Division SWAT guys or if it is on the carry list for all agents.

[brainplay]

Copy that. It's funny though-our FI guys tend to love the P229,

It's a beautiful wonderful weapon. It's also an old weapon that Sig is trying to put behind them and push their latest release using modern tech instead of updating the older P22X series; the P250. Unfortunately, I've heard nothing but bad things about the P250.

[Laconian]

HR, from what I remember the FBI Division SWAT guys were carrying Springfield 1911A1s, but I haven't seen any of those guys in years so i don't know what they are toting now. The P229 in DAK is a high capacity revolver. That long trigger pull requires work to learn to run it smooth. I had a DAK P239, hated it. How many competitive shooters are running DAK/DAO guns? I dons't like DA/SA guns, either. One trigger pull for folks to learn is enough.

[Bedhead]

For ****'s sake please stop with the "running" or "run". I don't care what the highspeed Ninjas use as terminology, or frankly any gun dork who's heard the term. ( Not that you are either) You are shooting. You shoot a gun. Our Numbah Wan Chinaman is basically personally responsible for this nonsense on this forum. You should all be taken out behind the schoolhouse and have someone "run" a bat upside your heads.

[digrar]

I don't care what the highspeed Ninjas use as terminology, or frankly any gun dork who's heard the term. ( Not that you are either)

Wrong..........

[HR24]

For ****'s sake please stop with the "running" or "run". I don't care what the highspeed Ninjas use as terminology, or frankly any gun dork who's heard the term. ( Not that you are either) You are shooting. You shoot a gun. Our Numbah Wan Chinaman is basically personally responsible for this nonsense on this forum. You should all be taken out behind the schoolhouse and have someone "run" a bat upside your heads.

I would say that the majority of members posting in this thread have the experience to say whatever the F*ck they want to say when it comes to this subject. But, thanks for the informative input, chief.

[Bedhead]

Anytime, Pal, anytime.

[Laconian]

For ****'s sake please stop with the "running" or "run". I don't care what the highspeed Ninjas use as terminology, or frankly any gun dork who's heard the term. ( Not that you are either) You are shooting. You shoot a gun. Our Numbah Wan Chinaman is basically personally responsible for this nonsense on this forum. You should all be taken out behind the schoolhouse and have someone "run" a bat upside your heads.

I'll take your request under advisement and give it it's due consideration.

[Hawkeye65]

My agency weapon these days is a Sig P229 DAK chambered for .40SW. All I will say is this, the trigger pull is a f*cking mile long, and when coming from a Glock 19 9mm, and going to a double action only weapon chambered at a hotter round, patterns start expanding. I have a love hate relationship with my Sig. Some range days I love it, and others I would toss it into a river.

My hope is, when our Sig contract runs out, we shift over to the HK USP. That is a good shooting gun IMHO.

I pray and dream for the day that they allow us to carry .45's.

HR why can you not choose what you carry?

[California Joe]

I'm running to the fridge for another beer.

[Roy Batty]

...... Our Numbah Wan Chinaman is basically personally responsible for this nonsense on this forum. ........

There is a kernel of truth in every post.......



I'll have a beer too while you're up CJ.

[gaijinsamurai]

When I get the runs, I run one-ply toilet paper. I used to run 2-ply, but my wife said it feels funny when she runs it on her ass.

[gaijinsamurai]

What kind of beer are you running, CJ?

[California Joe]

Tactical Bud in a can. The AK 47 of beers.

[gaijinsamurai]

When I get home I'm going to run a Pilsener Urquell. The CZ75 of beers.

[Roy Batty]

Running my own personal brew.....guess that makes it the zip-gun of beers.....:|

[Laconian]

HR why can you not choose what you carry?

Agency policy. Some agencies make you buy your own firearm; some agencies issue one but allow you to chose a firearm from an agency approved list of firearms that you purchase but are allowed to use on duty; others issue a duty weapon and that's all you're allowed to use.


Running my own personal brew.....guess that makes it the zip-gun of beers.....:|

More like a custom - like an Ed Brown or Wayne Novak 1911. :)

[Arnie100]

For ****'s sake please stop with the "running" or "run". I don't care what the highspeed Ninjas use as terminology, or frankly any gun dork who's heard the term. ( Not that you are either) You are shooting. You shoot a gun. Our Numbah Wan Chinaman is basically personally responsible for this nonsense on this forum. You should all be taken out behind the schoolhouse and have someone "run" a bat upside your heads.

SMGLee probably knows more about firearms then YOU DO.

[gaijinsamurai]

That's why he's our Numbah Wan Chinaman. Especially when he's running his Colt M4 and Springfield Armory 1911A1.

[HR24]

HR why can you not choose what you carry?

Refer to what Laconian said. We have a SMALL list, which doesn't allow much wiggle room. There are contracts for agency weapons that have to be honored, ammo considerations, and, in our case, action concerns (single or double). Our primary has to match our backup in action. If it doesn't, you can't carry the other.

[HR24]

I'm currently running a three year old cabernet sauvignon. Some would call that gay, I call it out of beer on a Sunday in a dry county.

[SilentType]

I can see the reasoning in a military having standard service pistol for logistical reasons and magazine commonality when fighting in large units, but where is the logic in saying that everyone in a federal agency should have a standard service pistol?

Why not just have a list of approved pistols that the individual agents purchase themselves? Pistols are so subjective. I mean what one individual might be good with another individual might really not care for at all. Glocks are fine, but some hate their ergonomics and others can't stand their triggers. Why marry everyone to two different types of pistols? Why not have a decent sized list?

It's not like there aren't a lot of quality pistol manufactures out there now. Sure Glocks and M&Ps are fine, but a lot of folks swear by their SIGs, HKs, FNPs, and so forth. If someone wants to use something other than a Glock or M&P in the ATF why go to the expense of issuing them one? I think the Agents are intelligent enough to make their own choices.

[Arnie100]

Some agencies have a list of approved pistols, some don't. All depends on agency policy. Besides, it's a lot easier if everybody's trained on the same weapon. Spare parts, ammunition, etc. is a lot easier to acquire if all weapons are standardized.

[James]

IMHO there is nothing a .40 carbine does better than a 5.56. We got rid of our MP5s went to M4s and kept our 14" barreled Remington 870 shotguns.

Amen. Anything that goes in your shoulder should have more umph than a pistol.

[Ought Six]

Well, I for one would not feel entirely wimpified if I was armed with a 10mm MP5. :D

[theholeinthedonut]

SMGLee probably knows more about firearms then YOU DO.

In the kingdome of blind men the one ey'd is king.

[gaijinsamurai]

Besides, it's a lot easier if everybody's trained on the same weapon..

This has a lot to do with it, IMO. I've been at classes where 90% of the students are RUNNING Glocks, and perhaps one has a SIG and another is RUNNING a S&W or XD. Sometimes, the small differences can be a headache for the range officers, who often have a lot to do with the decisions regarding what the officers carry.

[cone256]

I'm not a big fan of the M&P's, although I own the full size .45 model and sometimes carry it. Working for a federal agency myself, just because it made a decision does NOT mean it was the best one. All kinds of politics come into play, even for something as stupid as cutting a food contract. It's just amazing the bull**** I see sometimes!

[gaijinsamurai]

.... just because it made a decision does NOT mean it was the best one...

*cough*Bere*cough*tta*cough

[cone256]

*cough*Bere*cough*tta*cough

I have yet to have any issues with my issued M9, but I'm no omfgd3lta either so I don't RUN it nearly as hard.

But your point is still well made haha

[gaijinsamurai]

I was issued one in 1987, and never could RUN it well.

[Skippy_Doolittle]

In the OPP we run with the P229 .40 for our standard firearm. City cops that come over from the Glock have a hard time transitioning.

[Bedhead]

There is a kernel of truth in every post.......



I'll have a beer too while you're up CJ.

It takes a replicant to see the truth? Damn it.

And no offense to the real end users out there. I just can't stand fanboy terminology. I run a blah blah M4 with a blah blah light. No, you don't! You don't run ****. You just own an M4 and any running you're going to do is to the bathroom during commercials while watching Blackhawk Down for the 234th time whilst touching yourself. You're the real steel equivalent of the airsoft guys. It's the same with NASCAR guys decking out their cars to look like track cars, or every Lance Armstrong wannabe in their full Team Discovery outfits and WWLAD bracelets.

Sorry to offend any real deal individuals. Not that any of them give a f*ck. Laconian gave the proper, perfectly dry response.

End useless rant.

[Laconian]

It will be the Gen 4 Glock 22s & 27s. The issued light will be the Surefire 300x with pad.

[gaijinsamurai]

It takes a replicant to see the truth? Damn it.

And no offense to the real end users out there. I just can't stand fanboy terminology. I run a blah blah M4 with a blah blah light. No, you don't! You don't run ****. You just own an M4 and any running you're going to do is to the bathroom during commercials while watching Blackhawk Down for the 234th time whilst touching yourself. You're the real steel equivalent of the airsoft guys. It's the same with NASCAR guys decking out their cars to look like track cars, or every Lance Armstrong wannabe in their full Team Discovery outfits and WWLAD bracelets.

Sorry to offend any real deal individuals. Not that any of them give a f*ck. Laconian gave the proper, perfectly dry response.

End useless rant.

Most of us can relate to where you're coming from, bedhead. You weren't around to experience the awesomeness that was HiSpeed, were you?

[Bedhead]

Most of us can relate to where you're coming from, bedhead. You weren't around to experience the awesomeness that was HiSpeed, were you?

Oh lord, what did I miss? Looks like I'll be searching the archives...

[Arnie100]

You won't be disappointed! p-)

[HR24]

In the OPP we run with the P229 .40 for our standard firearm. City cops that come over from the Glock have a hard time transitioning.

I can relate.

[HR24]

It takes a replicant to see the truth? Damn it.

And no offense to the real end users out there. I just can't stand fanboy terminology. I run a blah blah M4 with a blah blah light. No, you don't! You don't run ****. You just own an M4 and any running you're going to do is to the bathroom during commercials while watching Blackhawk Down for the 234th time whilst touching yourself. You're the real steel equivalent of the airsoft guys. It's the same with NASCAR guys decking out their cars to look like track cars, or every Lance Armstrong wannabe in their full Team Discovery outfits and WWLAD bracelets.

Sorry to offend any real deal individuals. Not that any of them give a f*ck. Laconian gave the proper, perfectly dry response.

End useless rant.

No worries. Sorry for RUNNING my bat upside your head with that post. ;)

[Beowulf]

haha, can't believe i missed this thread.

Awesome.

I was searching for a conversation between James and Laconian in reference to gun belts/holsters. Little help?

Last night i ran a 6 pack of PBR.

[jeffy_ssd]

ATF should be the name of a convenience store not a government agency

[Laconian]

haha, can't believe i missed this thread.

Awesome.

I was searching for a conversation between James and Laconian in reference to gun belts/holsters. Little help?

Last night i ran a 6 pack of PBR.

Maybe the handgun procurement thread? We;ve done it a couple of places...James uses some classy stuff.

[California Joe]

James is a classy guy like that. I always feel like a **** when I can't even remember the model number of the S&W wheelguns we "ran" on the job. Haha. Oh well.

[Corrupt]

ATF should be the name of a convenience store not a government agency

As opposed to any other three letter abbreviations for government agencies?

[BD6843]

I have found the Glocks to be sh$t tough and reliable, especially the 17s. As a general issue pistol for a large agency where you have so many people, most with little to no firearms experience, Glocks are hard to beat from the instructors view and also for use in the field.

Keep in mind most federal agent puppies started life as an accountant, lawyer, etc. and now must be trained for field work. Most have had little or no interest in guns in general.

The good 'ol SIG226 is a tough customer also. Very reliable and just keeps on RUNNING.

[Laconian]

I have found the Glocks to be sh$t tough and reliable, especially the 17s. As a general issue pistol for a large agency where you have so many people, most with little to no firearms experience, Glocks are hard to beat from the instructors view and also for use in the field.

Keep in mind most federal agent puppies started life as an accountant, lawyer, etc. and now must be trained for field work. Most have had little or no interest in guns in general.

The good 'ol SIG226 is a tough customer also. Very reliable and just keeps on RUNNING.

Agreed. Most LEOs regardless of agency (state, local, Federal) are NOT shooters; many ( and most administrators) falsely believe that passing the quarterly/semi-annual or annual qual is preparation for gunfighting. The Glock (and now the M&P) are great agency issue guns for shooters and non-shooters alike.

I've had little problem with my .40 P226, however the same can't be said for the general issue P229s.

[BD6843]

My P226 is an OLD 9mm version. When they first started chambering in .40 there were numerous problems but I think most have been worked out.

We are currently issuing P229DAK in .357SIG. Very accurate, very tough, but feels like a brick in your hand and most of the younger people can't get used to recoil. Few shootings we had had with the .357SIG though have been pretty impressive.

My coice for any large agency would just be Glocks, lots of ammo and range time!

[11 Bravo]

A buddy of mine got a glock in 357 sig. I was surprised at how with the right load the recoil was quite stout and we did fairly well at hitting a 10"x4" steel plate suspended on a cable at 45yds. But on the same note I can take my CZ75B and rattle that plate much more consistantly. Mind you I'm no fan of glocks I've had a compact and a standard size 9mm of the glock thingy...never really liked the fit feel or trigger of any glock , nor the HK P7 either.

[BD6843]

I will say our SIG P229 in 357SIG is very accurate. But recoil has been an issue for the 'non-shooters', but they still manage to make it on our qual course (do not confuse with TRAINING!). At my home range I have a steel plate 12"x12" and it is no problem ringing it 100% at 100 yards and a good 90% at 200. But they still feel like bricks!

I love the Glock 17s and 19s but change out the sights to Warren Sevigny.....my old eyes need that extra definition! I have found them to be accurate enough (minute of man) and onc you spend some time on them you can get quite used to the trigger.

[BD6843]

11Bravo, several of our guys who ARE shooters have bought Glocks in .357SIG.....issued ammo and carry a blaster they have confidence in. Glocks are tough, easy to train new shooters on. The P229, especially the DAK, is harder to get a newer shooter trained on, especially if they never had the priviledge of having carried a wheelgun.

And I have LONG felt that QUALIFICATION is NOT the same as TRAINING for a fight. Qualification is a test against a known standard. Training prepares one for the unknown and unexpected.

[jeffy_ssd]

As opposed to any other three letter abbreviations for government agencies?

Just not a fan. They (ATF) have a tendency to make up the rules as they go along.

[LongShot]

Most of us DOD pukes are still running Berettas thanks to big military...rumors (and just that) are that they are contemplating a switch to Glock or Sig (for Civilian LE)...hell, most of DOD just got hollow points post Ft. hood.

[California Joe]

Just not a fan. They (ATF) have a tendency to make up the rules as they go along.

Kudos on one of those great vague, uninformative, unsubstantiated, personal opinions that we have come to love around here.

[crimsontide]

he does kind of have a point though. I mean, didn't the ATF just "rule" that saiga shotguns had no value for "sporting purposes" and ban them from importation? maybe I read that article wrong, but that sounds like making up the rules to me.

[California Joe]

They are not a monolithic entity, they are made up of dedicated people doing their jobs that don't make policy. Like some of our members here for instance. My fault with that logic is when generalizations are thrown around as if you get an evil pill and a pair of jackboots when you sign up so you can start persecuting your neighbors.

[crimsontide]

true, they aren't thugs, they are a legitimate government entity. I do take issue to the fact that they can essentially ban guns through technicalities however. That, to me, is the job of legislation, although I don't see much need to ban anything, personally, as long as those using it aren't criminals. Back on topic, I hope they go with the M&P. I got an M&P9 a few weeks ago and that is hands down the best handgun I have ever fired. I would not be exaggerating to say that my groups became 50% tighter switching from Beretta/Glock/XDM to the M&P. It's like a glock, except the grip doesn't feel like a 2x4.

[trunk_munkey28]

It took me a long time to get used to actually fighting with a Glock coming from Browning Hi Power. Its coming along really well, but my first few days on the range were pretty rough, consistently shooting low and left due to anticipation. Once I got used to the different grip angle and trigger, everything fell into place.

[James]

Maybe the handgun procurement thread? We;ve done it a couple of places...James uses some classy stuff.


James is a classy guy like that. I always feel like a **** when I can't even remember the model number of the S&W wheelguns we "ran" on the job. Haha. Oh well.

Thanks for the kind words guys. Right now, semi wheel chair bound with my busted ankle, I'm sporting a classy Army surplus claymore bag holding a Sig .380 lashed to the right arm rest. p-)

[James]

It took me a long time to get used to actually fighting with a Glock coming from Browning Hi Power. Its coming along really well, but my first few days on the range were pretty rough, consistently shooting low and left due to anticipation. Once I got used to the different grip angle and trigger, everything fell into place.

What kind of sights does your Glock have? I replaced my factory sights with sets from Heinie and they made a tremendous difference for me. I was pretty good with the factory sights, but now... I think any aftermarket sights are worth looking into.

[James]

And I have LONG felt that QUALIFICATION is NOT the same as TRAINING for a fight. Qualification is a test against a known standard. Training prepares one for the unknown and unexpected.

Well said. You never rise to the occasion, you fall to your level of training.

[IMTT]

My agency just traded out our HK USPs for Glock 35. I'm still adjusting but again it works / functions (runs, shoots, works, operates and whatever the most coolest guy shooter / operators gun fag says). Realibility, training and shot placement win gun fights. Again and again magic bullets fail. Make them dance through a wall of hot steel while moving with a purpose and then reload and shoot more until there is peace across the land. Give peace a chance! Besides the worst shots in the world are cops and military personnel. The object is not the overall solution just a small part of it.

[Beowulf]

What kind of sights does your Glock have? I replaced my factory sights with sets from Heinie and they made a tremendous difference for me. I was pretty good with the factory sights, but now... I think any aftermarket sights are worth looking into.

Did you change them out yourself? Easy/Hard?

[IMTT]

Well said. You never rise to the occasion, you fall to your level of training.

More specifically LOWEST LEVEL OF TRAINING imho

Three elements in any professional program;
1. Training
2. Practice
3. Quaification / eval

All possess specific goals and intent with distinct objectives focused on performance enhancement.

[Jippo]

Did you change them out yourself? Easy/Hard?

It is very easy.

[James]

Did you change them out yourself? Easy/Hard?

Hmm, easy with the correct tools.

[LongShot]

Glock sights can be pretty easy. I put XS sights on my 19 and 17 using only the tools XS provides in the package (nylon punch and front sight stake socket) Though when I went to put sights on my para C7....I broke them.


James, do you have any pics of the Heinies installed?

/Off topic

[BD6843]

Well put, IMTT....range staff gets so enamored with shooting little bug holes in targets at known distance while standing on your two hind legs at a non-moving target that they forget the whole reason we are carrying pistols in the first place is to be able to fight and win with them! I have always told my students, "I don't carry my pistol waiting for a PPC match to break out!"

And to add to your observation I would add that SOME LE/Mil can become very accomplished shooters but we have had such a shift in generational upbringing that our younger officers and soldiers may never have even touched a firearm of any kind until they come to their respective agency. AND, qualification or shooting accomplishments does NOT relate to how one will work in a fight.

[megjur]

My agency allows us to purchase the gun of our choice within limits. I carry an M&P 40..best shooting handgun I've ever had. A couple other guys have M&P's..most folks carry various Glocks of course. Thats a good thing because range training through the department is pitiful..once a year qualification and maybe one other range day thrown in, so the simpler the weapon the better. I shoot a lot on my own though, and with my sons, to stay sharp and because it's fun!

[BD6843]

Many moons ago our agency bought you a handgun from an approved list. Officers of different size could choose a handgun that fit them, they shot well with and thus developed confidence in. We had no issues. On qual days you would go to range, grab the correct ammo for your handgun and shoot.

Of course then some pencild*ck high on the foodchain brought up the "What if we have to exchange magazines in a gunfight" scenario and he had sufficient moxey to push it through. Never mind he had never worked the streets, never mind he had never been in a fight, he must be the expert because he was in charge of the range. Nevermind the fact that most times in our specific line of work I probably won't be around another officer when a fight starts, never mind the fact that if you fired all your rounds and didn't hit anything I sure as heck am not giving you my magazines!

I understand that a large federal agency may need to standardize on a couple models. I just hope they make wise choices based on what the guys on the street need/want as opposed to some desk jockey's "expertise".

[megjur]

Yeah..the old "what if we need to share mags" argument. Stupid at best. I have 61 rounds on me while on duty...if thats not enough a few more aren't really going to make much of a difference!

[Dan2004]

I put XS sights on my 19 and 17 using only the tools XS provides in the package (nylon punch and front sight stake socket)

How do you like them? I love my Big Dots.

[LongShot]

How do you like them? I love my Big Dots.

Very awesome, very quick front sight focus and allignment.

[Ought Six]

I have the XS BigDot Express sights on my G27, and love them. Very fast target acquisition.

[trunk_munkey28]

What kind of sights does your Glock have? I replaced my factory sights with sets from Heinie and they made a tremendous difference for me. I was pretty good with the factory sights, but now... I think any aftermarket sights are worth looking into.
Trijicon 3 dot tritiums in green.