Official NHL Thread

[CMNot]

lol3213213211

[toki]

lol3213213211
Can't see it, why lol... :|

Aero?

[toki]

Oh God, sister of Sarah "if it has a pulse and is famous I'll **** it" Conner?

Schweini is legendary for his girlfriend alone, she's silly hot. Leckermädchen.

ok Anna Maria is a bit better looking than her long nose sister Sarah
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4116/mesutsevgili17332501.jpg

[Stonewall71]

Stop the bloody vuvuzelas!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Ln_rqPpPk&feature=player_embedded

[ayanami_tard]

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j299/Dan_87/vuvu.gif


1234567890

[Soldat_Américain]

Robbbbbbbbbbed!

[creativeUsername]

The US was robbed of goal and a victory by a terrible decision that cannot be reversed no matter how wrong it was, this was an initiation.

You guys are finally a part of world football, welcome

*Bro hugs America*.

[CMNot]

When he blew to disallow the goal I thought he was doing it to award a penalty for one of the half dozen fouls the Slovenians were committing.

And then I was like lol.

[Corrupt]

When he blew to disallow the goal I thought he was doing it to award a penalty for one of the half dozen fouls the Slovenians were committing.

And then I was like lol.
Corrupt likes this

[Soldat_Américain]

When he blew to disallow the goal I thought he was doing it to award a penalty for one of the half dozen fouls the Slovenians were committing.

And then I was like lol.

It's quite obvious that the officiating in the WC is just as bad as the umping in baseball.

[Jobu]

The US was robbed of goal and a victory by a terrible decision that cannot be reversed no matter how wrong it was, this was an initiation.

You guys are finally a part of world football, welcome

*Bro hugs America*.


I thought Frings' handball on the goal line was our initiation? That call may have cost us a spot in the quarterfinals.
Or was it Onyewu's phantom penalty against Ghana? That call may have cost us a spot in the 2nd round.
This call may cost us a spot in the 2nd round.

Every four years we go into the World Cup knowing that we will get screwed for at least one goal (for or against) in the tournament from the refereeing. It's probably one of the reasons why soccer is not more popular in the USA. American sports fans in general do not understand that soccer is about the drama. It's theater. Don't go watching the World Cup with the expectations that it will be a fair competition and that the best teams will advance. Watch for the spectacle.

[toki]

I thought Frings' handball on the goal line was our initiation? That call may have cost us a spot in the quarterfinals.
Or was it Onyewu's phantom penalty against Ghana? That call may have cost us a spot in the 2nd round.
This call may cost us a spot in the 2nd round.

Every four years we go into the World Cup knowing that we will get screwed for at least one goal (for or against) in the tournament from the refereeing. It's probably one of the reasons why soccer is not more popular in the USA. American sports fans in general do not understand that soccer is about the drama. It's theater. Don't go watching the World Cup with the expectations that it will be a fair competition and that the best teams will advance. Watch for the spectacle.

I understand that you're pissed off, but we all know the calls are at least 10% lottery. Seeing conspiracies and whatnot behind such a call is simply stupid. Also why do Americans always blame the whole sport. If you play it, accept it as it is, don't tell everyone that it is not more popular in the US BECAUSE...

Sorry, i feel for your side today. But i simply don't like pulling out the football vs. american sports card all the damn time. The simplicity of the game also relies on a single ref. It's not about drama, drama is part of it. And don't tell me otherwise, today we leave the game with yellow cards for half of the team, plus a funny red one. While both sides agree the reffing was BS today. But now the other teams face heavily booked Serbs and Germans. Fair? It's life.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

I understand that you're pissed off, but we all know the calls are at least 10% lottery. Seeing conspiracies and whatnot behind such a call is simply stupid. Also why do Americans always blame the whole sport. If you play it, accept it as it is, don't tell everyone that it is not more popular in the US BECAUSE...

Sorry, i feel for your side today. But i simply don't like pulling out the football vs. american sports card all the damn time. The simplicity of the game also relies on a single ref. It's not about drama, drama is part of it. And don't tell me otherwise, today we leave the game with yellow cards for half of the team, plus a funny red one. While both sides agree the reffing was BS today. But now the other teams face heavily booked Serbs and Germans. Fair? It's life.There are plenty of bad calls in US sports too, even replayed calls that they still get wrong.

Such is the nature of sports.

Jobu is right though, this is three world cups in a row with blatantly blown calls against the US. This one hurts because it wasn't even a blown judgement call, just completely from the other side of the moon wrong.

It's like England and penalty kicks, it's becoming a bad habit.

Anyway, US still controls its own destiny, with a win against Algeria they make the next round. Won't be easy though, no matter what happens tonight.

[SBL]

Also why do Americans always blame the whole sport. If you play it, accept it as it is, don't tell everyone that it is not more popular in the US BECAUSE...


Because it can be better, therefore it should be better. No team deserves to get shafted like that, especially over some misguided sense of "tradition". You can change the ball, you can change the rules, but you can't do anything to improve on the officiating? Give me a friggin' break.

[toki]

There are plenty of bad calls in US sports too, even replayed calls that they still get wrong.

Such is the nature of sports.

Jobu is right though, this is three world cups in a row with blatantly blown calls against the US. This one hurts because it wasn't even a blown judgement call, just completely from the other side of the moon wrong.

It's like England and penalty kicks, it's becoming a bad habit.

Anyway, US still controls its own destiny, with a win against Algeria they make the next round. Won't be easy though, no matter what happens tonight.
The Ghana US one wasn't really that blatantly wrong. I've just checked it again. Onyewu seemed clumsy for most of the game. I remember that game quite well. Fact is that in none of the three games Jobu brought up the US led by a margin, or led at all. Close games are meant to be scary.

This one was evil, i know. But the last world cup game, where the US didn't only play well, but put in a comfortable lead was... 2002? Portugal and Mexico? Walking along the edge, you die easier.

[Jobu]

Anyway, US still controls its own destiny, with a win against Algeria they make the next round. Won't be easy though, no matter what happens tonight.

Not necessarily. The USA could win but if England beat Algeria and then tie Slovenia:

England - 5 pts
Slovenia - 5 pts
USA - 5 pts
Algeria - 0 pts

The top two teams to advance will then be determined by goal differential or goals scored.
That non-goal may cost the USA a spot in the 2nd round.

[MoFo]

Come on england lets have some redemption!

AV IIIIIT

[Soldat_Américain]

Soccer needs more zebras. They also need better zebras...you know ones that aren't blind. I'm serious about the blind part.

[Corrupt]

Bad calls go both ways. You're only ever outraged by ones that cost you though. Every team gets them from time to time

[Soldat_Américain]

I'd like to see your dumbarsed reaction to England getting fvcked three world cups in a row. We don't play sports for drama here, that happens on its own as the season develops. This **** just shows why FIFA sucks. I provided a solution and you went bell end on me.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

The Ghana US one wasn't really that blatantly wrong. I've just checked it again. Onyewu seemed clumsy for most of the game. I remember that game quite well. Fact is that in none of the three games Jobu brought up the US led by a margin, or led at all. Close games are meant to be scary. Just watched the foul again too... very questionable.

A solid ref would not have called it. It was Merk IIRC, one of the worst in the business, at least in his later years.

It can't be changed. I think the biggest problem with instant replay refereeing is the fact that many decisions made on the field cannot be judged to be wrong or right even with instant replay. It kind of opens a can of worms. Imagine if Barca beats ManU and the call gets reversed on a questionable instant replay. Not sure that helps anything.

[Corrupt]

I'd like to see your dumbarsed reaction to England getting fvcked three world cups in a row. We don't play sports for drama here, that happens on its own as the season develops. This **** just shows why FIFA sucks. I provided a solution and you went bell end on me.

We have been ****ed. Plently of times. Hand of God? Beckham sent off against Argentina? The disallowed goal against them which sent it to penalties and us out of the world cup?

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Not necessarily. The USA could win but if England beat Algeria and then tie Slovenia:

England - 5 pts
Slovenia - 5 pts
USA - 5 pts
Algeria - 0 pts

The top two teams to advance will then be determined by goal differential or goals scored.
That non-goal may cost the USA a spot in the 2nd round.By that calculation the US needs to win by at least 2 goals.

US is 0/0 now. Slovenia would be +1 after a draw with England. Same for England though, they need to beat Algeria by more than 1 to be relatively safe drawing in the final match.

[toki]

Just watched the foul again too... very questionable.

A solid ref would not have called it. It was Merk IIRC, one of the worst in the business, at least in his later years.

It can't be changed. I think the biggest problem with instant replay refereeing is the fact that many decisions made on the field cannot be judged to be wrong or right even with instant replay. It kind of opens a can of worms. Imagine if Barca beats ManU and the call gets reversed on a questionable instant replay. Not sure that helps anything.
The can of worms will be worse if you apply it to every professional league down to 3rd or 4th division. I don't want that stuff in my stadium.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

We have been ****ed. Plently of times. Hand of God? Beckham sent off against Argentina? The disallowed goal against them which sent it to penalties and us out of the world cup?No kidding.

The disallowed goal was brutal. Becks getting sent off was harsh, but also stupid from Becks. Same with Roo's stomp.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

The can of worms will be worse if you apply it to every professional league down to 3rd or 4th division. I don't want that stuff in my stadium.It'd have to be a CL/UEFA/FIFA thing I suppose.

Probably even too expensive for some pro leagues.

[California Joe]

If I want drama, bullsh*t calls, and corruption I'll watch figure skating or womens gymnastics for chrissakes. This is a real sport and everytime some douchebag dives or some f*cktard ref makes a call like this, it diminshes it. It's not a soap opera regardless of all the acting.

[Climber]

I don't know if you play yourselves or not, I don't know how many WC have you seen or been. In every sport this stuff happens, so please do not cry.

The only thing I would cry over is when an experimented player like Klose, makes the stupid mistake of fouling from behind, no once but twice, and make himself out of the match. Serbia, the worse team I've seen, winning over Germany is an insult to the people who love football.

[Foxtrot Alpha Whiskey]

This is why football matches should have TV refs

[SBL]

I don't know if you play yourselves or not, I don't know how many WC have you seen or been. In every sport this stuff happens, so please do not cry.

It shouldn't happen, and that's the point. Especially if the ref can't even proffer an explanation!

[Auzaider]

It shouldn't happen, and that's the point. Especially if the ref can't even proffer an explanation!

It happens, and it's part of the game, period. Not even 20 cammeras will prevent bad calls from happening.
England won the 66 cup with the goal that never was... Germany won the 90 cup with an invented penalty... it happens.

[Climber]

It shouldn't happen, and that's the point. Especially if the ref can't even proffer an explanation!

Well, it happens even with 3 zebras a nd cameras like in the NBA.

I've been playing and watching for, like 4 decades, and I suffered bad calls myself lot of times, and know what? even if I thought it was unfair, I keep it to myself, cause referees are human beings ****e to error like anyone, and **** happens all the time.

[Soldat_Américain]

Well, it happens even with 3 zebras a nd cameras like in the NBA.

I've been playing and watching for, like 4 decades, and I suffered bad calls myself lot of times, and know what? even if I thought it was unfair, I keep it to myself, cause referees are human beings ****e to error like anyone, and **** happens all the time.
:cantbeli:

That's why you have replay when you have the technology. All fouls called on goal should have a reason and be reviewed when goals are waived off...if you tell me that's too much to ask I would tell you that you believe mistakes should always happen.

[SBL]

It happens, and it's part of the game, period. Not even 20 cammeras will prevent bad calls from happening.
England won the 66 cup with the goal that never was... Germany won the 90 cup with an invented penalty... it happens.


Well, it happens even with 3 zebras a nd cameras like in the NBA.

I've been playing and watching for, like 4 decades, and I suffered bad calls myself lot of times, and know what? even if I thought it was unfair, I keep it to myself, cause referees are human beings ****e to error like anyone, and **** happens all the time.


Mistakes will be made- that's a given. The fact that such a blatant miscall can go unchallenged and un-reviewed without so much as an explanation is what's ridiculous. And I can think of no good reason for it in this day and age.

[creativeUsername]

:cantbeli:

That's why you have replay when you have the technology. All fouls called on goal should have a reason and be reviewed when goals are waived off...if you tell me that's too much to ask I would tell you that you believe mistakes should always happen.

I think one of the problems with that is there will constantly be 20-60 second pauses every time there is a tricky challenge or a potential hand ball. it would slow the game down considerably.

[Stevey1]

That was the worst England performance I have ever seen. The players looked unfit and clueless. For once though, I attribute most of the blame to Capello. It's not unusual for big teams to have a poor half against lower sides. The manager changes the system and gets a result. A football novice would have swapped Gerrard behind Rooney, put Joe Cole on the left. 4-4-2 wasn't working. Lennon and WP should not be playing. They are not suitable for this level. What has Capello got against Cole?

Rooney was appalling again. As others have noticed, Heskey was poor, but at least he put the effort in. Rooney was lazy to boot. Added to his petulant whinge at the end, I'd drop him for the next game.

The players deserve criticism, but Capello has been terrible. Look at Italy. Even worse than England in their first half the other day. The manager changes it and they're completely different.

I thought they should bring Venables back rather than Capello. Stuart Pearce should show the Italian out of the way after that. He may be a great manager at Club level, but I could have done a better job tonight.

My hope is that England will do what they did at the Rugby World Cup in 2007 and peak when they need to. They certainly can't trough any lower.

Still...at least we didn't lose like ze Germans p-)

[Redox]

I think one of the problems with that is there will constantly be 20-60 second pauses every time there is a tricky challenge or a potential hand ball. it would slow the game down considerably.
Easy solution: do it like in Tennis. Every team is allowed to call for a replay 3 times per half for example. The coach or the team captain would be allowed to call the replay. Of course you would need a fourth ref, the "TV ref". He could talk per raidio with the main ref or be allowed to do the decision all on his own.

Could not be a problem with costs, because UEFA paid 2 completely meaningless goal refs in the european cups. Only problem would be a loss of power for the main ref, but the game would profit dramatically I think.

[Soldat_Américain]

They need more than just one ref.

[Lamer]

OMG football is what it is and is reffed the way it is for a long time- Part of why it is so popular is the fact that is simple and straightforward- THERE ARE NO SECOND GUESSES and this is not likely to change, there wont be any new long rulebooks with a bunch of crap in them, TV refs, radio comms, replay limits etc. If you want that pick another sport and stop bitching.
It sucks when your team looses because of the ref but if you love football and watch a lot of it you will learn to accept this and not want it any other way.

Come on- they used to flip a coin to determine the winner after regular time was over :D

[Soldat_Américain]

So you'd rather get calls in this sport wrong? That's not what sports are about.

[toki]

So you'd rather get calls in this sport wrong? That's not what sports are about.
The game is not about stoppage and constant review, it's about decision taking and accepting it. The most important thing for watching it in the stadium is that it quickly resumes. It would destroy the game if you had to review offsides. Simply because every offside is a potential threat. Winning games especially in league situations means that you get yourself ahead of chance.
Every team knows, that a one goal lead is nothing, fragile. The only way to get yourself out of trouble is leading by two.
Chance is part of the game, it makes it less predictable. I'm annoyed by all those know it alls - "we wanna improve the game we don't care about".
Theres a good German word i can't translate properly "Tatsachenentscheidung". It emphasizes on the decision itself, and implies that you should go on.
Chance can mean human error of the ref or a blunder of a defender.
I don't expect anyone to get this, but watching it in the stadium every other weekend makes you appreciate the quick decision taking process. You may wanna "hang the black pig"*, but you don't want to sit out half of the game waiting for something to be decided.

*the time when most refs had black shirts.

Over

[Gleipnir]

excellent post, toki.
Well said.

[KoTeMoRe]

Got into the same kind of rant on the Slovo USA thread. It's renconforting to see that football is a common cultural factor in Europe.

[Elbs]

I'll add my two cents to toki's great points. You have to make your luck in this game. No one would be bitching about the disallowed goal if the other two clear cut chances that the US had had gone in. This is the World Cup and you need clinical finishing. If you get one chance, you have to bury it. If you get two, you bury both. If you get three, bury all of them. It's as simple as that. For all of the team's courage and fighting spirit, the inexperience at the highest level keeps costing us with early goals against, and a wealth of missed opportunities for us. The US needs to be less "innocent" when playing these high-stakes games.

[SBL]

The game is not about stoppage and constant review, it's about decision taking and accepting it. The most important thing for watching it in the stadium is that it quickly resumes. It would destroy the game if you had to review offsides. Simply because every offside is a potential threat. Winning games especially in league situations means that you get yourself ahead of chance.
Every team knows, that a one goal lead is nothing, fragile. The only way to get yourself out of trouble is leading by two.
Chance is part of the game, it makes it less predictable. I'm annoyed by all those know it alls - "we wanna improve the game we don't care about".
Theres a good German word i can't translate properly "Tatsachenentscheidung". It emphasizes on the decision itself, and implies that you should go on.
Chance can mean human error of the ref or a blunder of a defender.
I don't expect anyone to get this, but watching it in the stadium every other weekend makes you appreciate the quick decision taking process. You may wanna "hang the black pig"*, but you don't want to sit out half of the game waiting for something to be decided.

*the time when most refs had black shirts.

Over
Disagree. You don't need to be stopping play to review every call- Lord knows there's enough of that with people getting "hurt". Allotting one or two challenges per game would be sufficient.

[KoTeMoRe]

SBL: Nope...where do you stop the review? See there are actions that have a long course in soccer/football. Sometimes you have a 20+ pass action that becomes a goal. During this 20 pass action you have two fouls (one for each side) how do you judge? That's the whole point. If the whole movement takes a minute+ to develop where do you start the review. Point in case is the second goal of Liverpool against AC Milan in the 2005 CL final. Gattuso suffered a clear foul in the midfield. Liverpool kept passing the ball and then ended up with a penalty...so what do we review, the penalty fraction? The whole action? Reviewing a 1 minute action will cost at least three minutesof stoppage time. So there you are...

[Soldat_Américain]

Only certain things are reviewable in football and as such makes sens only certain things be reveiwable in soccer

[KoTeMoRe]

Not at all...if you whine about a PK, that was obtained by a foul in the start of the action then it should be 1-1=0. So no PK. US football is not Soccer World Football. You can't compare cows and donkeys.

[SBL]

SBL: Nope...where do you stop the review? See there are actions that have a long course in soccer/football. Sometimes you have a 20+ pass action that becomes a goal. During this 20 pass action you have two fouls (one for each side) how do you judge? That's the whole point. If the whole movement takes a minute+ to develop where do you start the review. Point in case is the second goal of Liverpool against AC Milan in the 2005 CL final. Gattuso suffered a clear foul in the midfield. Liverpool kept passing the ball and then ended up with a penalty...so what do we review, the penalty fraction? The whole action? Reviewing a 1 minute action will cost at least three minutesof stoppage time. So there you are...

Simple: give the coach a flag. He throws the flag, indicates the call he wants reviewed and it's reviewed. Set a statute of limitations to within 10 seconds of the whistle. Given only one challenge per half, I guarantee you he's going to save it for those calls that really matter: i.e. disallowed goals.

[KoTeMoRe]

Err...basically make a 90 minute game last 180. Our main concern in the non US world. Give to someone like Maradona a flag and see what happens. That's why the refs are there so the game doesn't turn out to be a "trial" with objections every 30 seconds.

[SBL]

Err...basically make a 90 minute game last 180. Our main concern in the non US world. Give to someone like Maradona a flag and see what happens. That's why the refs are there so the game doesn't turn out to be a "trial" with objections every 30 seconds.

Uh, that wouldn't happen with only one challenge per half.

[Soldat_Américain]

You understand that the information age allows us to get the calls right? You have goals instantly reviewed if they were waved off...especially if the jackass from Mali doesn't even tell you what the call is. He has that effing mic he better tell the boys upstairs or we give him a dress to go as a beggar.

[Elbs]

Seriously, it's not going to happen. The Germans lost a world cup to England on a goal that never crossed the line :-)

[KoTeMoRe]

Uh, that wouldn't happen with only one challenge per half.

Again, to quote some writer "once is akin to never". That limitation is hypocritical, either you review everything either you don't. Imagine three slight errors that have big consequences in the same half...three offsides. How do you resume the game then? Free Kick? Is that the same as a genuine goal opportunity? Nope...

Just food for thought.

As for the infomation age...how many bad calls in the NFvckinL? That coming from a NFL fan...as you might remember.

[SBL]

Again, to quote some writer "once is akin to never". That limitation is hypocritical, either you review everything either you don't.
It breaks the tyranny of particularly stupid or shady refs, and adds dimension to the game. Nevermind that it potentially saves teams from being royally shafted. No hypocrisy in that.


Imagine three slight errors that have big consequences in the same half...three offsides. How do you resume the game then? Free Kick? Is that the same as a genuine goal opporunity? Nope...

Just food for thought.
One gets challenged and it's "play on" for the other two, so make sure you're making the right decision, coach. I can't imagine the scoring team would be issuing the challenge in this situation, so if it's found to be a bad call, the goal is disallowed.


As for the infomation age...how many bad calls in the NFvckinL? That coming from a NFL fan...as you might remember.
Somewhere in the same neighborhood I'd imagine. But the number of bad calls that stick has gone down, and that's what counts.

[Corrupt]

Thing is if you used your call in the wrong place people would then start complaining that theres video refereeing and it was still disallowed wrongly (or given wrongly)
You have to just accept decisions will be for or against you and its all part of the game. And 99.9% of the time the decisions affect both teams fairly evenly and as Toki said. You shouldnt be in a position where that one decision can shaft you in the first place.

[Soldat_Américain]

No I don't have to accept it when it can be better! I guess we'll just get it done in the MLS and like with everything else we'll export integrity into the world of soccer.

[Jobu]

I just watched the second half again on DVR.

The USA had 4 free kicks. They were all blown dead by the referee for supposed fouls including the most obvious one that should have been the game winner. You do the math.

[Jobu]

Thing is if you used your call in the wrong place people would then start complaining that theres video refereeing and it was still disallowed wrongly (or given wrongly)
You have to just accept decisions will be for or against you and its all part of the game. And 99.9% of the time the decisions affect both teams fairly evenly and as Toki said. You shouldnt be in a position where that one decision can shaft you in the first place.

Sorry but that's utter bullcrap. Calls do not "even out" in a short tournament where one bad refereeing decision can be the difference between advancing and going home.

And in case you noticed there are not very many teams who can be comfortably in a position where a referee can decide the outcome. Not everyone has the talent of Brazil or Argentina with the ability to dominate entire games and win comfortably.

[Elbs]

No I don't have to accept it when it can be better! I guess we'll just get it done in the MLS and like with everything else we'll export integrity into the world of soccer.

MLS can't do anything against FIFA's wishes unless it want's to have its teams disallowed from competing with any other FIFA sanctioned team.

[SBL]

Thing is if you used your call in the wrong place people would then start complaining that theres video refereeing and it was still disallowed wrongly (or given wrongly)
I think most people will just call the coach a bonehead.


You have to just accept decisions will be for or against you and its all part of the game. And 99.9% of the time the decisions affect both teams fairly evenly and as Toki said. You shouldnt be in a position where that one decision can shaft you in the first place.
I understand that completely and accept it for the most part- that's sports. What I don't accept is the ridiculous amount of power that rests on one official-with no power to review. Far too open to abuse. And I'll keep on not accepting it until a really bogus call goes my way, or until football season starts, or I forget. So there.

[Corrupt]

Sorry but that's utter bullcrap. Calls do not "even out" in a short tournament where one bad refereeing decision can be the difference between advancing and going home.

England have gone home plently of times of poor decisions, I know its bloody annoying. But 90% of the time theres not even a game changing decision made like this by the ref anway. How many other games have there been sofar this tournament, where theres been no such outcry about one poor decision? If you'd been 2-0 up and not got a third noone would really care.

[KoTeMoRe]

SBL: I said either every action gets screened either none. One call per half is hypocritical as it forces a single appeal and doesn't remove the overall issue of the human factor. Plus how do you resume the play action in the case of a wrong offside? Free Kick, PK?

What about fouls unrelated to the action? What about longer actions? What about foul induction (ie short ball play in the Penality Area, running on the defender without a clear chance of getting the ball, the Uruguayan PK against SAF, etc).

Football has a soul, you just can't change it.

As for integrity...not when you send elbows flying, you don't.

[Climber]

:cantbeli:

That's why you have replay when you have the technology. All fouls called on goal should have a reason and be reviewed when goals are waived off...if you tell me that's too much to ask I would tell you that you believe mistakes should always happen.

Why we would change the sport and convert it in the business driven NFL or NBA, games that last hours. The referee will make mistakes, it's part of the game.
For the record, Argentina was ripped off of their 3rd cup in 1990 when Codesal, a Mexican referee gave Germany a panalty that wasn't. And i'm tell you that we took it with philosphy, because it is what it is. And because Maradona made a goal with his hand in 1986, we couldn't cry. Sometimes they ripp you off, sometimes they gift you. It's FUTBOL. and it's the way it is.


Mistakes will be made- that's a given. The fact that such a blatant miscall can go unchallenged and un-reviewed without so much as an explanation is what's ridiculous. And I can think of no good reason for it in this day and age.

We won't let the games last 3 or 4 hours. period.

[Soldat_Américain]

That's where you go wrong, games don't last that long because of replay.

[KoTeMoRe]

That's where you go wrong, games don't last that long because of replay.


No they last longer because it's a line and round based sport...so parallelisms should not be drawn.

But in the present case, there is so much going on in football that you will have to double the game time in order to get a full review.

[SBL]

SBL: I said either every action gets screened either none. One call per half is hypocritical as it forces a single appeal and doesn't remove the overall issue of the human factor. Plus how do you resume the play action in the case of a wrong offside? Free Kick, PK?
It's not about "removing the human factor", it's about sparing teams from getting wrongfully screwed on that one bad call. There's no need to review every single one.
As for part two: a PK sounds good to me. Whatever.


What about fouls unrelated to the action? What about longer actions? What about foul induction (ie short ball play in the Penality Area, running on the defender without a clear chance of getting the ball, the Uruguayan PK against SAF, etc). What about it? Would you be willing to blow your one challenge on something like that?


Football has a soul, you just can't change it.

Sentimental hogwash. This wouldn't change it much anyway, except spare a lot of people some ulcers.





We won't let the games last 3 or 4 hours. period.
Nobody's saying you have to.

[Corrupt]

As for part two: a PK sounds good to me. Whatever.

Watch a penalty shoot out or two. Most teams go out 4:3 or 5:4 or something Giving penalties so easily would be game changing!!

[SBL]

Watch a penalty shoot out or two. Most teams go out 4:3 or 5:4 or something Giving penalties so easily would be game changing!!
What's the one where they line up in front of the goal with their hands over their wieners? That's the one I mean.

[szr]

You can't polish a turd. And so long as an intransigent and incompetent FIFA and its apologists turn a blind eye to the sport's glaring and innumerable shortcomings; insisting that you simply eat the crap that they feed you; a turd it will remain.

Soccer isn't a completely hopeless sport. There's enough there to work with if only the governing bodies were willing.

[KoTeMoRe]

It's not about "removing the human factor", it's about sparing teams from getting wrongfully screwed on that one bad call. There's no need to review every single one.
As for part two: a PK sounds good to me. Whatever.

What about it? Would you be willing to blow your one challenge on something like that?


Sentimental hogwash. This wouldn't change it much anyway, except spare a lot of people some ulcers.



Nobody's saying you have to.


On the challenge: If that impedes you having a PK yes...I said the problem is the flow of the game...not the problematic ref decisions. You can spot out punctual issues, but the constant action will make sure that all attempts to cordon and channel the essence of football will go down the drain.

The "one bad call" means you put yourself to that position...I'm sorry a half assed team would have a game robbed like that. And again I call out Dempsey's elbow Fu. Take out Dempsey and play the rest of the game in ten. Let's see wich decision will hurt you most. That's the cultural convergence point. You can't tolerate small issues, while you hardly regard the broader picture.

szr : What are these shortcomings? Wich ones are genuine malicious grey areas and not the very proof man is imperfect both in judgment and interpretation. They don't feed us turds. I watch the game being played at amateur level (my son plays for a local squad here in Belgium). The game is fun without any overhead control, it is a fair and fun game despite blatant cheating, hand balls, brawls, foul language etc etc etc...it's a part of us europeans. We suffer from the same issues on the field (Serbia-Germany) yet we cope with it. Then some dude that calls a sport played with hands and shoulderpads, with 10 minutes of effective game in 150 minutes of time all this in an official game time of an hour, football, complains about how retarded our football is...well ok. Fair call. You can name us your retarded brother Bilo

[szr]

szr : What are these shortcomings? Wich ones are genuine malicious grey areas and not the very proof man is imperfect both in judgment and interpretation. They don't feed us turds. I watch the game being played at amateur level (my son plays for a local squad here in Belgium). The game is fun without any overhead control, it is a fair and fun game despite blatant cheating, hand balls, brawls, foul language etc etc etc...it's a part of us europeans. We suffer from the same issues on the field (Serbia-Germany) yet we cope with it. Then some dude that calls a sport played with hands and shoulderpads, with 10 minutes of effective game in 150 minutes of time all this in an official game time of an hour, football, complains about how retarded our football is...well ok. Fair call. You can name us your retarded brother BiloInnumerable shortcomings, as in too many to list. But I'll give you a couple.

A hallmark of competitive sport is to have victory conditions such that the vast majority of games played result in a tangible winner and loser.

The result should come through the core mechanics of the standard gameplay. Soccer's core gameplay is based on 11-v-11 teamplay utilizing the full geometry of the field. To decide a game on PKs, for example, is tantamount to quitting the match and opting instead to decide the game based on the results of a round of rock-paper-scissor.

There's a saying in baseball: Nobody comes to a game to see the umpire. Soccer refs routinely do as much to influence the final result of a match as the 22 players on the pitch. In that way, the refs in soccer aren't corrective forces, but decisive forces.

And of course there's all the cultural stuff (all that sissy crap) that I don't even need to broach.

[KoTeMoRe]

Innumerable shortcomings, as in too many to list. But I'll give you a couple.

A hallmark of competitive sport is to have victory conditions such that the vast majority of games played result in a tangible winner and loser.

The result should come through the core mechanics of the standard gameplay. Soccer's core gameplay is based on 11-v-11 teamplay utilizing the full geometry of the field. To decide a game on PKs, for example, is tantamount to quitting the match and opting instead to decide the game based on the results of a round of rock-paper-scissor.

There's a saying in baseball: Nobody comes to a game to see the umpire. Soccer refs routinely do as much to influence the final result of a match as the 22 players on the pitch. In that way, the refs in soccer aren't corrective forces, but decisive forces.

And of course there's all the cultural stuff (all that sissy crap) that I don't even need to broach.

You don't watch football very often do you? There is a looser and a winner, but sometimes forces in presence clash and neutralize eachother. This means that on the imparted timeframe neither of the squads was able to defeat the other. Then comes the PK series...very logic. And it is not a rock-paper-scissor system. Nope you have to know how to shoot a PK. Furthermore I can argue that PK shootouts empower the men that usually are less likely to score (the keeper, defenders), every one does a concrete and décisive thing to help the team topple the opponents.

That's the problem...baseball, US football are not fluid games, they're round based games, they last decades (the NYY-BoSox opener was just that long and slow) despite swift punctual actions. You can't compare...the closest thing in the US that you might have (culturally) is Ice Hockey or Lacrosse.

The refs are both, corrective forces when the game is clear and unobstructed (example: no inducive style of play like playing the offside trap) and decisive when the game is close, nervous and dirty. So the players bear a clear responsibility by being incapable of forcing a clear decision, incapable of playing properly the game of football without fouls and with a clear game ethos.

In other words Ed Hochuli is a douchebag, so was Sir Koulybaly today...

[Gleipnir]

It is incredibly disappointing that this is on the verge of becoming a cultural pissing match.

I think it is a little short-sighted to want to transpose the reviewing system of American football onto football (soccer) primarily because of the major difference in game flow- American football of course having natural breaks or a type of reset if you will at downs, an advancing and retreating of space that occurs in a more stop-start manner than in football (soccer).

This issue about not wanting to see the umpires isn't very appropriate in approaching the history of football- the human element is important and yes, referees can influence the flow and outcome of games, this adds a third and dynamic layer to the proceedings which are as ****e to error as that of the players.
Mistakes in play can determine whether a team wins or loses, mistakes in referee-ing can also determine this.

There is a history of this as there is a history in Western thought that there is some kind of inherent, intrinsic 'justice' in the world.

Before every World Cup there are appeals for 'fair play' and the referees are briefed about changes to existing rules and often encouraged to penalize certain blatant 'unfair' behaviours more aggressively.
This adds again to the dynamic. Referees are people- what they say on the pitch may look far different than what we have the luxury of seeing with slow-motion replays.

I would prefer an open, flowing style of play complete with referee errors because this is the game I have grown up watching. Yes, it has changed over that time as has the rules.

szr, I don't understand what you are trying to get at- in football there is always a tangible winner or loser (barring draws that do not require extra time/penalty shootout)
Are you suggesting that the penalty shootout system should be eliminated?
Have you ever played a full football (soccer) match plus extra time? There is a rather powerful human, physical reason that this arrangement works well.

No-one in baseball comes to see the umpire. Cool.
This isn't baseball. This isn't basketball. This isn't American football either. There isn't a best of three or five or seven finals.
This is football (soccer) and has its own logic, history, traditions and evolution.

[szr]

You don't watch football very often do you? There is a looser and a winner, but sometimes forces in presence clash and neutralize eachother. This means that on the imparted timeframe neither of the squads was able to defeat the other. Then comes the PK series...very logic. And it is not a rock-paper-scissor system. Nope you have to know how to shoot a PK. Furthermore I can argue that PK shootouts empower the men that usually are less likely to score (the keeper, defenders), every one does a concrete and décisive thing to help the team topple the opponents.Happens far too often and is an example of a fundamental flaw in the game.

What are you arguing? That it's not like rock-paper-scissor because the result isn't completely random? How about a game of darts, then? That requires some skill and would empower all the players who may not be very good at soccer but possess top-notch dart-throwing skills to contribute to the soccer victory.


That's the problem...baseball, US football are not fluid games, they're round based games, they last decades (the NYY-BoSox opener was just that long and slow) despite swift punctual actions. You can't compare...the closest thing in the US that you might have (culturally) is Ice Hockey or Lacrosse.How many basketball games have you ever seen that ended in a draw? Flow/pace/speed of the game has nothing to do with it.


The refs are both, corrective forces when the game is clear and unobstructed (example: no inducive style of play like playing the offside trap) and decisive when the game is close, nervous and dirty. So the players bear a clear responsibility by being incapable of forcing a clear decision, incapable of playing properly the game of football without fouls and with a clear game ethos.(I only understood the bit in blue so that's what I'm responding to.) By decisive, I mean that soccer refs routinely guide the game to a particular result through their calls. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I prefer my sport decided by the play on the field. Maybe you regular soccer viewers are more accepting of the Juggernaut Referee model because without them the final results would be even more indecisive than they already are. Again, that's a flaw of the game.

[szr]

This is football (soccer) and has its own logic, history, traditions and evolution.Rationalize its shortcomings any way you will. There's a reason why anywhere soccer isn't the only game in town, it's routinely among the least popular sports. Soccer devotees seem to take for granted that in most places around the world soccer enjoys a captive audience.


I don't understand what you are trying to get at- in football there is always a tangible winner or loser (barring draws that do not require extra time/penalty shootout)That's a complete contradiction by the way. I'm not complaining though, as it backs up my first point of contention.

[Gleipnir]

Rationalize its shortcomings any way you will. There's a reason why anywhere soccer isn't the only game in town, it's routinely among the least popular sports.

This does nothing to illuminate your point. I'm not sure I have ever judged the merit of a sport based on its referees or popularity, maybe that is where you and I differ.
I'm not sure what merit this inter-sport ****-measuring contest is doing for this thread, though.

[custodes]

Damn those little Balkin Bits. What? Ughh...p-)

[Gleipnir]

Soccer devotees seem to take for granted that in most places around the world soccer enjoys a captive audience.
?????????????????????
are you serious or are you trolling?

[szr]

This does nothing to illuminate your point. I'm not sure I have ever judged the merit of a sport based on its referees or popularity, maybe that is where you and I differ.
I'm not sure what merit this inter-sport ****-measuring contest is doing for this thread, though.Gleipnir, I don't know if anybody's ever told you this, but there's more to life than male genitalia.

[Gleipnir]

Gleipnir, I don't know if anybody's ever told you this, but there's more to life than male genitalia.

Too easy. All I can discern from your replies so far is that you are a waste of time. Ciao.

[California Joe]

Mistakes I can live with, but I see no reason to put up with some sh*tbag with an agenda unduly influencing the outcome of a game that should be decided by the players. I referrence my previous post in another thread. If I want to watch someone win because the judges decided so, I'd watch figure skating or women's gymnastics. You guys are arguing that we should just deal with it because that's the way it is. That's like telling a rape victim to just lay back and let it happen.

[szr]

?????????????????????
are you serious or are you trolling?How many other sports does a poor farmer's child in Africa/Asia/South America have routine access to?
Too easy. All I can discern from your replies so far is that you are a waste of time. Ciao.Adios, amiga.

[Gleipnir]

@CJ
I have no qualms there, but wanting to graft regulations from other sports that are incompatible to this game are puzzling.

[California Joe]

OK, forget the video replays, put 2 more refs on the field. Christ, a basketball court isn't that big and they use 3. I've been pissing and moaning about the USA game but I think the Germans got boned today too, I've seen a lot of sh*t calls already and we're just in the first round. Maybe the ref is out of position, maybe he's a hack, maybe he's corrupt, maybe he's on some macho power trip and wants the players to respect his authoritah! I don't know. But when South African newspapers are lamenting the fact that the officiating has been "3rd rate" then something is wrong....

[Gleipnir]

I don't know- I can deeply empathise with those are upset about the referees today, but for the most part I think that this World Cup has had pretty decent refereeing for the most part.
It also sounds as if some of you are new to the sport, bad calls by refs is nothing new.
I'm sure that some here will remember the Netherlands - Portugal game from the last world cup and the very poor referee Ivanov who was fired after this game.
Maybe they will add a fifth official, who knows- however, there has always been controversy and questionable actions and questionable calls. We'll see how FIFA will react in regards to this issue in the future- until then we will just have to live with it.

[TheEvian100]

Poor performance from England yesterday... :-(

USA was the best team from the same group imo.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4313/fdgdfgfd.jpg

[Breakfast in Vegas]

In other words Ed Hochuli is a douchebag, so was Sir Koulybaly today...Yes, but Ed helped my team win and Koulybaly screwed my team.

[toki]

Does your team have a song they play in the locker room? Here it came up in 2006 that the players chose one to be the team DJ, lol. In 2006 it was Asamoah, now i think it's Sami Khedira. Unfortunately Sami Khedira is a friend of Bushido. This is their main motivational song...
:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/v/S1qnHjI9VWs&NR=1

[Soldat_Américain]

It's probably a mix of tech n9ne, Eminem, 50 cent, Game, TI, god forbid Kanye, Westside Connection, NWA, Snoop, Cube, Easy E.

[toki]

It's probably a mix of tech n9ne, Eminem, 50 cent, Game, TI, god forbid Kanye, Westside Connection, NWA, Snoop, Cube, Easy E.
no your guys get pumped up by this one:
http://www.youtube.com/v/KP2u9CvPgwg

[Soldat_Américain]

Usa america we stand as one!!!!!!!!!!

[TheEvian100]

A nice vid by BBC for the WC 2010
http://www.youtube.com/v/6Sd-0yXsVcY

[TheEvian100]

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/668/newpicture1on.png

Quoting California Joe from the other thread: "Watch it in slow motion. I'm pretty sure at least 3 US players got buttsexed during that last goal. Horrible call."

[Detective]

Jeez.. :roll:

[CMNot]

That's a complete contradiction by the way. I'm not complaining though, as it backs up my first point of contention.

Drawing matches has a very positive or negative impact upon a teams season, it's just that that effect may only come into play days, weeks or even months after the fact.

For me all the referee anger is funny. As an Englishman I have felt the ultra humiliation at the hands of a referee. 24 years ago on Tuesday actually, to be precise. Or Sol Campbells disallowed goal in Korea. Hurts a lot more when it directly helps you to be knocked out.

To be a BIT more serious on referees. The problem is FIFA, or more to the point, the old cronies 'responsible' for the World game. The other influential body, UEFA, aren't exactly the greatest either. The FA in England has made positive noises before about video technology (more specifically, goal line technology), but this just gets shotdown by FIFA/UEFA. I personally would like to see a 'Challenge' system, were the manager gets the opportunity to challenge one goal incident (screw the red card stuff, seen plenty of teams play better with 10 than 11 in my time); if he blows his challenge it's gone, if he gets it right, it 'resets'. There has to be some suitable application for it, although it is a little tricky to implement given the nature of the game. However, far more 'oldskool' sports that one would imagine resistant to change have adopted elements of video technology and challenge systems: tennis, cricket and rugby come immediately to mind. Although those sports lend themselves to it in their fragmented nature, video technology has actually become part of the theatrical element of these sports.

FIFA/UEFA unfortunately are far more interested in disrupting successful English clubs than tackling key issues in the game. They would be better served putting their petty jealousies aside for the greater good.

As an addendum, cricket, rugby and tennis are still punctuated by shocking officiation quite often even with video technology and lots of officials.

[KoTeMoRe]

Happens far too often and is an example of a fundamental flaw in the game.

What are you arguing? That it's not like rock-paper-scissor because the result isn't completely random? How about a game of darts, then? That requires some skill and would empower all the players who may not be very good at soccer but possess top-notch dart-throwing skills to contribute to the soccer victory.

How many basketball games have you ever seen that ended in a draw? Flow/pace/speed of the game has nothing to do with it.

(I only understood the bit in blue so that's what I'm responding to.) By decisive, I mean that soccer refs routinely guide the game to a particular result through their calls. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I prefer my sport decided by the play on the field. Maybe you regular soccer viewers are more accepting of the Juggernaut Referee model because without them the final results would be even more indecisive than they already are. Again, that's a flaw of the game.


How many basketball games? It has nothing to do with the sport then...it has to do with your ethos. YOU WANT A CLEAR WINNER. It's not the game that doesn't allow it, it's the quantitative transformation that doesn't allow it. By this I mean that you people want absolutely points scored...while this might be a handy way to determine the outcome of a game, it is by no mean a clear way to determine a winner. It's just an ontological (goal driven) way to see the sport. I mean Spain Switzerland was exactly the case. Spain was the better team, yet they lost. In my opinion there's no logic into that result, but yet I can live with it.

While you see absolutely butthurt by a human error...Jeesus why the fuss? NBA games are horrendously officiated, I don't open my mouth to bark about that...

As for the PK issue. Try once, and you'll see what I mean. Anyway it seems we've reached that cultural rift point thus more in this case means less.

[Corrupt]

The major problem is, a free kick is not game changing. If you got called offside, used your challenge and were shown to be right, you'd get a free kick, the defence have time to organise etc. Its nowhere near the same chance as not being blown and then getting 1vs1 with the keeper. I agree it should be on goal lines to see if the ball 100% crossed the line, and the ref should have the option, if somebody goes down in the box for example of PK or yellow card for diving or otherwise, to confirm with a video ref before he makes his decision. But you cant start giving teams challenges, because a free kick is jsut that. its not game breaking. They're a legitimate way of slowing down an attack if your caught on the break for example.

[szr]

Drawing matches has a very positive or negative impact upon a teams season, it's just that that effect may only come into play days, weeks or even months after the fact.

For me all the referee anger is funny. As an Englishman I have felt the ultra humiliation at the hands of a referee. 24 years ago on Tuesday actually, to be precise. Or Sol Campbells disallowed goal in Korea. Hurts a lot more when it directly helps you to be knocked out.

To be a BIT more serious on referees. The problem is FIFA, or more to the point, the old cronies 'responsible' for the World game. The other influential body, UEFA, aren't exactly the greatest either. The FA in England has made positive noises before about video technology (more specifically, goal line technology), but this just gets shotdown by FIFA/UEFA. I personally would like to see a 'Challenge' system, were the manager gets the opportunity to challenge one goal incident (screw the red card stuff, seen plenty of teams play better with 10 than 11 in my time); if he blows his challenge it's gone, if he gets it right, it 'resets'. There has to be some suitable application for it, although it is a little tricky to implement given the nature of the game. However, far more 'oldskool' sports that one would imagine resistant to change have adopted elements of video technology and challenge systems: tennis, cricket and rugby come immediately to mind. Although those sports lend themselves to it in their fragmented nature, video technology has actually become part of the theatrical element of these sports.

FIFA/UEFA unfortunately are far more interested in disrupting successful English clubs than tackling key issues in the game. They would be better served putting their petty jealousies aside for the greater good.

As an addendum, cricket, rugby and tennis are still punctuated by shocking officiation quite often even with video technology and lots of officials.Interesting points, CMN. Personally, I'm not even ready to offer up video replay as a potential solution. I think first, there needs to be some officiating guidance handed down to soccer refs from the overseeing bodies that acknowleges how few and far between real, true, honest-to-god scoring oportunties there are in the sport, and that anytime the ref is the 'Man of the Match', he's done a fundamentally bad job of officiating. I also think the whole penalty card system could use an overhaul, especially the way cards accumulate over games. There should be some sort of clear penalty delineation between procedural penalties and player misconduct.

As an outsider looking in, FIFA strikes me as a particularly opaque and obfuscative overseeing body, so your comments about its motives are interesting.

[Corrupt]

I definitely think Cali Joes idea of another ref or two (with one who makes the final decision after any consultation) might be an idea

In other news.

If England draw 2-2 and the US draw 0-0, then we draw lots to see who goes through of the two teams. Well theres a new and novel way for England to be eliminated. Makes a change from penalties

[szr]

How many basketball games? It has nothing to do with the sport then...it has to do with your ethos. YOU WANT A CLEAR WINNER. It's not the game that doesn't allow it, it's the quantitative transformation that doesn't allow it. By this I mean that you people want absolutely points scored...while this might be a handy way to determine the outcome of a game, it is by no mean a clear way to determine a winner. It's just an ontological (goal driven) way to see the sport. I mean Spain Switzerland was exactly the case. Spain was the better team, yet they lost. In my opinion there's no logic into that result, but yet I can live with it.

While you see absolutely butthurt by a human error...Jeesus why the fuss? NBA games are horrendously officiated, I don't open my mouth to bark about that...

As for the PK issue. Try once, and you'll see what I mean. Anyway it seems we've reached that cultural rift point thus more in this case means less.Kote, I think you have a misunderstanding of competitive sport. They're not philosophical exercises; they have simple victory conditions that esentially are to use the scoring mechanisms of the game to accrue more points than your opponent within an allotted period of time or number of rounds. The better team on the field is simply the one who achieves the victory conditions. That team is said to be the winner. If Switzerland is able to meet the sport's stipulated victory conditions with its play on the field, then it is the winner. There are no value judgements involved or a rehashing of past glories to determine the merit of an individual win. Individual games/matches stand on their own.

[CMNot]

You will be far better served, if quality of football and opportunity are important to you, to watch club football over international football.

For me the quality of play between a Real v Barca, Arsenal v Chelsea or Man U v Bayern (typical Germans) and any given WC match is night and day. But then it should be, as arguably each of those club teams has a stronger squad than 99% of international teams. Particularly Real who on paper at least have a squad far superior to anything any single country can turn out.

International football is something of a misnomer. It is more like a national social event, if that makes sense, as opposed to a sporting event. I can only roughly cross-translate it into what I imagine - for example - the mood would be in New York if the Giants made the Superbowl final. Except that instead of one day, it's anything from 2-4 weeks.

All that said, FIFA remains the fundamental floor of football. I'm sure it's something to do with being French, the FIA that governs world motorsport arguably far surpasses FIFA in terms of absolute retardation when it comes to Formula 1.


As an outsider looking in, FIFA strikes me as a particularly opaque and obfuscative overseeing body, so your comments about its motives are interesting.

You and >99% of everyone who watches/plays/observes/participates in football.


If England draw 2-2 and the US draw 0-0, then we draw lots to see who goes through of the two teams. Well theres a new and novel way for England to be eliminated. Makes a change from penalties

:lol:

I'd be all for that. The US have done more with less and as such right now deserve it more than we do.

[tluassa]

Group stage is crap, it was always so, it will remain so. People have short memory about the crappy group stage games because the later stages are so much more thrilling.

[WolverineBlue]

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/668/newpicture1on.png

Quoting California Joe from the other thread: "Watch it in slow motion. I'm pretty sure at least 3 US players got buttsexed during that last goal. Horrible call."

Jebus it's infuriating to see these photos. I'm trying to not whine too much about the call, but man, this drives me crazy. My favorite parts are: DeMerit and the Slovene auditioning for "Dancing with the Stars" at the top; Bradley and Slovene (lower right) in the prison *** motif; Bocanegra and Slovene (middle bottom) hand-to-hand combat; and Altidore with mate (lower left) in a gentle pairs figure skating pre-lift pose.

[BearInBunnySuit]

Jebus it's infuriating to see these photos. I'm trying to not whine too much about the call, but man, this drives me crazy. My favorite parts are: DeMerit and the Slovene auditioning for "Dancing with the Stars" at the top; Bradley and Slovene (lower right) in the prison *** motif; Bocanegra and Slovene (middle bottom) hand-to-hand combat; and Altidore with mate (lower left) in a gentle pairs figure skating pre-lift pose.

It's OK Wolfie, the US of A will make the next round. They didn't win yesterday but that was one of the best comebacks I have seen in a while, especially considering they were up against 12 players on the pitch.

[CMNot]

To be fair to Slovenia, out of the four group teams on the pitch yesterday Birsa was the only one who looked like he had any real quality about him.

If England get knocked out next Wednesday, I'm going to buy a bosche shirt and cheer them on. What colour is the German second kit? White makes me look a little tubby lately.

[Gleipnir]

Maybe FIFA should start by not fielding inexperienced referees in a WC game.
I'd rather see a better selection of referees than a technology based solution that doesn't address the real root of the problem.

[CMNot]

I did laugh a little when I saw there was a ref from Mali. But hell, just look at the mess a Spaniard used to refereeing La Liga matches made. Or the Premier Leagues greatest export, Graham Poll.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/1038/grahampoll4dvia4.jpg

[CMNot]

Who will start for Germany in place of Klose now?

Please tell me it won't be that Gomes/Gomez failboat. That fool makes Heskey look like Stoichkov.

[Mackie]

Who will start for Germany in place of Klose now?

Please tell me it won't be that Gomes/Gomez failboat. That fool makes Heskey look like Stoichkov.

Cacau, the Samba dancer

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Jeez.. :roll:It's after the fact and nothing can be done, but yeah. Wow.

[Redox]

Who will start for Germany in place of Klose now?

Please tell me it won't be that Gomes/Gomez failboat. That fool makes Heskey look like Stoichkov.
Dont think it will be Gomez. I fear it will be Cacao, although he doesnt really fit that position.
Kießling would make most sense, and I still hope he gets the chance he deserves. But it just seems that Löw does not like him.

[toki]

If England get knocked out next Wednesday, I'm going to buy a bosche shirt and cheer them on. What colour is the German second kit? White makes me look a little tubby lately.
Second kit is black. http://www.nationalmannschafttrikot.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/dfb-trikot-auswaertstrikot.jpg
I bet we both get second and avoid each other in the most unlikely way. Then we play Slovenia and you play Serbia. (Aus-Ghana game not included in my predictions) ;-)

So you cheering for Allemania?
I just saw a post game interview of Mark van Bommel, if he had little less dutchie accent when speaking German he would come across typical German. Can't put my finger on it. For a second i thought, nice guy... yay! dutchies won....

wait wut??????????

[CMNot]

Phew, no Gomez, good times. Watching him play [at] football genuinely offends my tender eyes.

Funnily enough, I'd rather England play Germany right now. It may be the only way that they grow some spine and develop some passion for the game and the country. FFS the team is full of CL winners, finalists, multiple league and FA cup winners...hell the Captain (who has probably been the only England player worth a damn so far) pretty much overcame a 3-0 deficit to AC Milan to win the CL singlehanded. And we can't score more than one goal in 3 hours of football (well 2 really, but I'd rather not think about the second one)? As MacEnroe would say, you cannot be serious.

This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adidas-JJ443-10-11-Germany-Shirt-M/dp/B002WH4J56/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=sports&qid=1276959719&sr=8-7) is the shirt? Could someone tell me what the chest size is for the M (Umbro sizes may be different)?

Anyone want an England shirt should we crash out to next Wednesday? :lol:


So you cheering for Allemania?

If England fail, then I'd rather cheer for a bunch of kids giving it a go and putting some effort in for each other and their country than some primadonnas that seem to wield a bizarre notion that they deserve knockout football on the basis of who they are and who they play for. Capello consistently bucking his previous trends and picking the wrong team is also galling.

[Corrupt]

So you cheering for Allemania?

Gotta say if England are out I tend to cheer for Germany, or Denmark or any countries around that area

[xav]

Anelka 'insulted France coach'
PARIS — France and Chelsea striker Nicolas Anelka unleashed a volley of insults at coach Raymond Domenech after being criticised at half-time of the 2-0 World Cup defeat to Mexico, L'Equipe newspaper reported on Saturday.
Anelka told Domenech to "go screw yourself, dirty son of a whore" in the dressing room at the Peter Mokaba Stadium in Polokwane after the coach took issue with his first-half performance, the report said.
The tirade was sparked after Domenech told Anelka to stop straying out of position in a match where the striker was one of France's worst performers, L'Equipe said, without citing its source.
When Anelka took issue with the criticism, Domenech threatened to substitute him, and the player made his foul-mouthed outburst.
Domenech's response was immediate. "OK. You're coming off," the coach said, according to the report, and he replaced him with Andre-Pierre Gignac for the second half.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jv5rxKTwTTIjmY5IKkSheWeEAZGg
:cantbeli:

What a shame for france soccer

maybe it will teach the next coach not to draft a bunch of over paid ghetto retards!

There are other issues: Gallas flipped his finger to a guy from french tv, and there is a problem between Ribery (who converted to islam) and Gourcuff: Ribery supposedly said Gourcuff was "too French" to be part of the group

Domenech should have picked all the players of that amateur team who made it to the semi finals of the french cup... at least they would have been happy to be there, to wear the french jersey and happy to play

[toki]

Phew, no Gomez, good times. Watching him play [at] football genuinely offends my tender eyes.

Funnily enough, I'd rather England play Germany right now. It may be the only way that they grow some spine and develop some passion for the game and the country. FFS the team is full of CL winners, finalists, multiple league and FA cup winners...hell the Captain (who has probably been the only England player worth a damn so far) pretty much overcame a 3-0 deficit to AC Milan to win the CL singlehanded. And we can't score more than one goal in 3 hours of football (well 2 really, but I'd rather not think about the second one)? As MacEnroe would say, you cannot be serious.

This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adidas-JJ443-10-11-Germany-Shirt-M/dp/B002WH4J56/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=sports&qid=1276959719&sr=8-7) is the shirt? Could someone tell me what the chest size is for the M (Umbro sizes may be different)?

Anyone want an England shirt should we crash out to next Wednesday? :lol:



If England fail, then I'd rather cheer for a bunch of kids giving it a go and putting some effort in for each other and their country than some primadonnas that seem to wield a bizarre notion that they deserve knockout football on the basis of who they are and who they play for. Capello consistently bucking his previous trends and picking the wrong team is also galling.


Gotta say if England are out I tend to cheer for german, or Denmark or any countries around that area
Times have changed i guess, haha.

CMN, yes that shirt. M, chest size? I don't know. You better check out another adidas shirt in a store near you and then secretly order the German one. And you're hitting a nail on the head, the newspapers have been rather calm about the loss. Everybody realizes we have the youngest team besides Ghana. Brilliance and missing opportunities are very close to each other. In general the public has a positive view of the team. And they do show spirit, they have this 'class trip' feel. A knock out could happen for the first time ever (i think), if so i hope the public is not too harsh on them.

But i believe we beat Ghana.

Gomez, yep he can be awesome in club level, but shockingly inneffective when you need him in the National team. The most logic step would be fielding Kießling, the best German striker of the season. But Cacau will play, i'm sure.
Interesingly Löw did not field a striker after half time against Serbia. He trusted the guys on the field, and we played very offensive. And that's really a sign of trust. Only later he brought the strikers, and then we couldn't cope anymore.

[Corrupt]

Times have changed i guess, haha.
Nah am definitely in the minority

[Breakfast in Vegas]

And you're hitting a nail on the head, the newspapers have been rather calm about the loss. Everybody realizes we have the youngest team besides Ghana. Brilliance and missing opportunities are very close to each other. In general the public has a positive view of the team. And they do show spirit, they have this 'class trip' feel. A knock out could happen for the first time ever (i think), if so i hope the public is not too harsh on them.

But i believe we beat Ghana.The only ones in panic or despair are those who know nothing about the game, like the ditzy blonde who asked me at halftime how long Klose would sit out during the game, as if it was a 2 min penalty in hockey.

Real football fans recognize that the team showed amazing spirit against Serbia, just a lack of precision and/or luck prevented getting at least a draw.

They'll beat Ghana.

[toki]

Goal difference before direct comparison.
If both games end a draw, Germany and Ghana are through.
If we win, Germany is through.
Ghana 4
Germany 3
Serbia 3
Australia 1

We have to win, the Serbs will beat the Aussies.
Germany #1, Serbia #2. They won't win by 3 more than we do.

All those draws mean KNOCK OUT STAGE HAS BEGUN!

[xav]

news about Anelka:

President of french football federation asked Anelka to apologize to the coach and french people/nation.

Anelka refused to apologize, as a consequence French Football federation expels Anelka off the team with immediate effect. He is to fly back to France tonight.

Once a moron, always a moron

[CMNot]

Anelka has always been an enigma. If Domenech didn't realise that then he's a bigger fool than I first thought.

It is clear that something is very wrong in the French setup. This information can only lead us to believe that Domenech has lost the changing room. Like any club manager who loses the confidence of his players, he's doomed.

Sadly France is going down with him it would seem.

[SHAM]

news about Anelka:

President of french football federation asked Anelka to apologize to the coach and french people/nation.

Anelka refused to apologize, as a consequence French Football federation expels Anelka off the team with immediate effect. He is to fly back to France tonight.

Once a moron, always a moron

Yet when Henry brought the whole of the French nation and the French football team shame....not a word. Its laughable.

[Redox]

Yet when Henry brought the whole of the French nation and the French football team shame....not a word. Its laughable.
what? now thats nonsense
a handball happens basically every game, its just that that one had quite big consequences

of course it was right to send Anelka home

[toki]

What did he say to Domenech at half time? Feck you in the arse, son of a whöre?
Confirmation please.
:lol:

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Goal difference before direct comparison.
If both games end a draw, Germany and Ghana are through.
If we win, Germany is through.
Ghana 4
Germany 3
Serbia 3
Australia 1

We have to win, the Serbs will beat the Aussies.
Germany #1, Serbia #2. They won't win by 3 more than we do.

All those draws mean KNOCK OUT STAGE HAS BEGUN!I also think Serbs will win. Not because they are better, but because the Aussies don't really have anything left to fight for. They'll try, but there is a difference if you are fighting to get to the next round or if your ticket home has already been booked.

Still think England and US advance, both with wins. Anything could happen though, Slovenia will fight like hell and Algeria aren't pushovers, nor is the US an offensive powerhouse.

So my dream matchups are still possible... Germany-England, Serbia-USA.

[GiladS]

Al-Jazeera says Israel disrupting World Cup broadcasts

Popular Arab television network under fire for continuous hitches in broadcast of FIFA championship after charging high prices for packages. Raed Abed, head of broadcasting department, says, 'I do not rule out Israeli involvement in disruptions'


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3907125,00.html

:cantbeli:

[Chimera]

'I do not rule out Israeli involvement in disruptions' [/B][/URL]

:cantbeli:

It is the Juice fault! Vuvuzelas are the new super secret Zionist weapon to rule the World!

[xav]

What did he say to Domenech at half time? Feck you in the arse, son of a whöre?
Confirmation please.
:lol:

Anelka told Domenech to "go screw yourself, dirty son of a whore" in the dressing room

there was just a live press conference with Evra (captain) the only thing he kept repeating:

"There is a treator in our squad that leaked the info to the press, we need to find that treator" :cantbeli: so he is more concerned about this drama BS than actualy playing football, let alone trying to win a game for a change

ps: i hope it is not Gourcuf... he may get stabbed by Ribery or one of his ghetto teammate

[Chimera]

"There is a treator in our squad that leaked the info to the press, we need to find that treator" :cantbeli: so he is more concerned about this drama BS than actualy playing football, let alone trying to win a game for a change

ps: i hope it is not Gourcuf... he may get stabbed by Ribery or one of his ghetto teammate

It doesn't matter.

Evra, Gallas, Anelka, Ribery will never wear the blue jersey again with Laurent Blanc as a coach.

[Ataman]

It doesn't matter.

Evra, Gallas, Anelka, Ribery will never wear the blue jersey again with Laurent Blanc as a coach.

You won't miss Anelka (I've never liked him anyway) and Gallas, but Ribéry and Evra are almost indispensable.

[Dronckaert]

It doesn't matter.

Evra, Gallas, Anelka, Ribery will never wear the blue jersey again with Laurent Blanc as a coach.

Down with the "wesh wesh cousin"...

Which French football fan can identify to them ? Most suburban assholes support either Algeria or other sub-saharan african teams anyway.

You're right, there will be a earthquake into the FFF, from Anelka to Escalette.

[Chimera]

You won't miss Anelka (I've never liked him anyway) and Gallas, but Ribéry and Evra are almost indispensable.

Ribery can stay in Germany with his whores and dumb face. Being a good player isn't enough to wear the blue jersey (according to Blanc), he's shown during this WC how useless he is and his lack of tactical skills. Evra can be easily replaced though I like the guy, but this time he's gone off the track, ha has good intetions and tries avoid the problem is his latest interview.

You see, Gignac might not be an amazing striker, but he shows he likes the country, the fans and his teamates.

Ribery is done with his behavior, because Blanc will always favor a less skilled midfielder who has HEART and RESPECT than Ribery.

[KoTeMoRe]

What did he say to Domenech at half time? Feck you in the arse, son of a whöre?
Confirmation please.
:lol:

Go get buttseksed, SOB. Proof that the issue with the French Football Team goes beyond football, it's a social issue and has been such since 1996. The triumph of the Sport/Etude programs meant that you'd have pricks dressed as football players and were used not as an educative tool, but as a social promotion tool. They had that function, but it was secondary to the main one...refound French Football.

As for the "traitor"...that's exactly the issue. That inmate mentality, that gang bang mentality crap. There's always a traitor when you need to hide things...

But onto the point the "traitor" is either Domenech himself (he's that devious)...either the gang itself. You know bragging about this kind of stuff wouldn't be that different from smiling to the cameras after getting hosed and almost eliminated (as Anelka did). This is not what football was, it has never been. Oh and I find it amusing that Anelka and Co who use prostitutes on a regular basis attack Gourcuff on his way of life...

Disgusting and unfair.

[KoTeMoRe]

@szr: The better team on the field isn't the one who lifts the cup, as an Italy fan, I can distinguish between quality and quantity. If you can't then we have, as I said, a cultural rift. Happens in life...


Thinking quantity, makes you play like Italy, like sh!t. And you win, but in no case you are the better team. In no way...this is underpinned by the periodicity of these sporting mantifestations. Each four years you have a WC or a Euro. So people don't get on eachother's throat because there will be a next time. That's something US sports in geneal is missing. Every year despite almost no change, it looks like it will the last one. The only one...

[szr]

@szr: The better team on the field isn't the one who lifts the cup, as an Italy fan, I can distinguish between quality and quantity. If you can't then we have, as I said, a cultural rift. Happens in life...You're not differentiating between your value judgements as a fan and what victory is in the eyes of the game. In the eyes of the game, the better team is the one who wins. A win is a win is a win. It's recorded in the sport's official standings as such. There are no asterisks, no qualifications nor caveats; just a result.

[KoTeMoRe]

As I said, if you think that "straight" then you'll consider anything to be the "better team"...including cheating. So you create the very issues you raise on football. By playing for the win, you shred thegame by commting small fouls, inducing off sides and dive at the PA. There's your better side. Again as an Italy fan, this makes my day when it forces results, but it also rots the game.

An ontological approach to a social phenomenon like football, leads to abuse, that abuse results in your demands for more "clarity"...so there you go. You complain about the refs when the very culprits are the sides playing for something else than their sheer pleasure.

So any sport is a philosophical exercise, if you strip any sport from its "soul" you'll have only greed.

[szr]

As I said, if you think that "straight" then you'll consider anything to be the "better team"...including cheating. So you create the very issues you raise on football. By playing for the win, you shred thegame by commting small fouls, inducing off sides and dive at the PA. There's your better side. Again as an Italy fan, this makes my day when it forces results, but it also rots the game.

An ontological approach to a social phenomenon like football, leads to abuse, that abuse results in your demands for more "clarity"...so there you go. You complain about the refs when the very culprits are the sides playing for something else than their sheer pleasure.

So any sport is a philosophical exercise, if you strip any sport from its "soul" you'll have only greed.So let me get this straight; you feel ties protect the game from the will to win? And you're afraid the will to win ruins the game? Sounds like your whole outlook on this issue is colored by the fact that your sport has all the good governance of some ass-backwards tin pot corruptocracy. Reform is in order.

[KoTeMoRe]

Yeah because soccer/football is the only sport with an abomination as "leadership"...the most funny part of it, is that the whole FIFA logic is trying to get closer to the US way of promoting and managing the sport...

On a side note, you know I'm really puzzled when people ask for more upper control on small parcels of social life (like sports) while they categorically refute the same tendency in their everyday lives. This paradox makes me laugh out loud.

[szr]

Yeah because soccer/football is the only sport with an abomination as "leadership"...the most funny part of it, is that the whole FIFA logic is trying to get closer to the US way of promoting and managing the sport...Good on FIFA, then. They can start by learning about the need for persistent self-assessment and correction.


On a side note, you know I'm really puzzled when people ask for more upper control on small parcels of social life (like sports) while they categorically refute the same tendency in their everyday lives. This paradox makes me laugh out loud.No, my friend; "more" would mean the top office at FIFA reaching down into individual games. What people want is a higher standard from the top, down.

[KoTeMoRe]

szr: the top at FIFA are reaching down to individual players, and why shouldn't the higher standart come from the players themselves? If the players don't cheat, no need for "higher stadarts"...I'm sorry but you actually do not know how the very sport is organized and want a way of improvment that won't change much overall. It's like saying CCTV fights crime, while it only exposes crime...as I said, you're very ****e to blame the leadership, while it's the players that lack ethos, first and foremost.

As for self assesment, sure the Nation wich sports stemmed a whole new level of generalised "performance enhancing drug" abuse can be regarded as an example when it comes to higher standarts...well hi kettle, I'm pot, you dance?

[szr]

szr: the top at FIFA are reaching down to individual players, and why shouldn't the higher standart come from the players themselves? If the players don't cheat, no need for "higher stadarts"...
And of course there's all the cultural stuff (all that sissy crap) that I don't even need to broach.Derp. Like I said, soccer's problems are many. Let's stick with with one set of issues at a time rather than jumping all over the place trying to be evasive. The way soccer players conduct themselves on the field is always first thing any soccer skeptic brings up. There's no doubt that players need to man-up and just play the game.

[KoTeMoRe]

I'm not evasive, you don't need a cam if your employees don't steal...it's just that easy. Being evasive is exactly what people suggest, invest in ways to impede refs having a crucial impact, while the refs impact is in reaction to players behaviour on the pitch...

[szr]

I'm not evasive, you don't need a cam if your employees don't steal...it's just that easy. Being evasive is exactly what people suggest, invest in ways to impede refs having a crucial impact, while the refs impact is in reaction to players behaviour on the pitch...And we're back at square one. You're acknowledging implicitly what many of us have been asserting this whole time: that soccer's got lots of problems.

The only disconnect between us is we saw fix it; you say This Is Africa, go with the flow.

[KoTeMoRe]

Well as said here...


szr : What are these shortcomings? Wich ones are genuine malicious grey areas and not the very proof man is imperfect both in judgment and interpretation. They don't feed us turds. I watch the game being played at amateur level (my son plays for a local squad here in Belgium). The game is fun without any overhead control, it is a fair and fun game despite blatant cheating, hand balls, brawls, foul language etc etc etc...it's a part of us europeans. We suffer from the same issues on the field (Serbia-Germany) yet we cope with it. Then some dude that calls a sport played with hands and shoulderpads, with 10 minutes of effective game in 150 minutes of time all this in an official game time of an hour, football, complains about how retarded our football is...well ok. Fair call. You can name us your retarded brother Bilo



Hum yes basically you'd have to fix the human nature...didn't knew you're a commie. Now soccer has the same problems as a lot of team sports. It's a social activity, thus you got interactions, thus you got human nature at work...if human nature is a problem, then let's stop being humans.

[szr]

Hum yes basically you'd have to fix the human nature...didn't knew you're a commie. Now soccer has the same problems as a lot of team sports. It's a social activity, thus you got interactions, thus you got human nature at work...if human nature is a problem, then let's stop being humans.It only takes some leadership to sort a lot of these problems out. A respected veteran player on a team, leading by both by example and confronting those who transgress--pointing out what's wrong and showing them what's right. This is basic stuff, man. You make it sound like these are insurmountable problems. All one needs to be a leader is some personal initiative and the respect of his peers. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a veteran player.

[KoTeMoRe]

Looks so easy...I guess that's how you do it in the US. Anyway that's not how it's done...

[szr]

Looks so easy...I guess that's how you do it in the US. Anyway that's not how it's done...This is Africa

[WolverineBlue]

Any chance you two (szr and KoTeMoRe) can chill for awhile?

[California Joe]

Like in PMs you homos?

[szr]

Can I take it to PMs with you, CJ? We could whisper in eachothers' ear.






p-)


np, We'll chillax, WB.

[gustav]

This World Cup in France is now all about the drama inside the French team and who is (are?) the traitor(s) who snitched on Anelka. The positive thing is that this time they won't be able to avoid the necessary purges, from top to bottom.

[toki]

This World Cup in France is now all about the drama inside the French team and who is (are?) the traitor(s) who snitched on Anelka. The positive thing is that this time they won't be able to avoid the necessary purges, from top to bottom.
Yoann Gourcuff? Isn't he being bullied by the other players? lol

Anelka is a piece of ****. Ged rid of him, Malouda and Govou. If you do not show respect of the coach of your national team you should be deprived of your citizenship. If that guy is an arsehole or not.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Anelka is a piece of ****. Ged rid of him, Malouda and Govou. If you do not show respect of the coach of your national team you should be deprived of your citizenship. If that guy is an arsehole or not.That's the whole point. Being a French citizen means nothing to them. Most likely, they hate France. That is the only way to really explain their, particularly Anelka's, consistent asshattery while in national dress.

Personally, I think players, including the German ones BTW, should all sing the national anthem. There is no excuse for not knowing the words, and there is certainly no excuse for not singing because their loyalties are elsewhere.

[Rudolph]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1Wl3ZNE2c&fmt=18
FIFA 2010 World Cup: A Celebration of Genocide (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1Wl3ZNE2c&fmt=18)

[KoTeMoRe]

Any chance you two (szr and KoTeMoRe) can chill for awhile?

Actually I find szr's points and his ability to talk calmly and politely, a very sound and decent manner of debating about man related stuff.

That's why I keep answering...and he seems cool and relaxed about this, same here.

CJ: don't ban me, boss.p-)

[Ataman]

That's the whole point. Being a French citizen means nothing to them. Most likely, they hate France. That is the only way to really explain their, particularly Anelka's, consistent asshattery while in national dress.

Personally, I think players, including the German ones BTW, should all sing the national anthem. There is no excuse for not knowing the words, and there is certainly no excuse for not singing because their loyalties are elsewhere.

I don't understand all this fuss in Germany about singing the national anthem or not. It's kinda pseudo-patriotic to me. They should identify with the country, that's all. Unfortunately, many players (generally speaking) don't choose the country they identify with the most.

[California Joe]

You guys are OK with me. Blue is running this show. :) I'm thoroughly enjoying this world cup, even if I am constantly bitching. Notice I'm not complaining about the Kiwis not getting called for offsides? Haha.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

I don't understand all this fuss in Germany about singing the national anthem or not. It's kinda pseudo-patriotic to me. They should identify with the country, that's all. Unfortunately, many players (generally speaking) don't choose the country they identify with the most.It's symbolic of course, and by that same logic those who don't sing are symbolizing that they are either too dumb to sing or don't identify with the national kit they are wearing. There are many other nations where everybody or nearly everybody sings.

By no means just a German thing though, not even all the English or Americans sing. It's not a big deal for me.

It's just me. I dig the whole "for country" aspect of international sports and don't like the mercenary aspect of it come world cup time, or the Olympics for that matter.

[tluassa]

I did the Maori dance when the Kiwis scored, but sadly Italy did score too already :)

btw. national anthems: The further our team advances, the more players actually learn to sing the anthem. Its really like they dont know it when they are new into the team :) You can actually compare by looking at youtube vids from the first game and the final of both Euro 2008 and WC 2006.

And than it depends also on the character of the players. Oliver Kahn never bothered to even whistle a single tone during the national anthems and still nobody had the slightest doubt about his loyalities :)

[CMNot]

Singing is not befitting of the Kahn.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

And than it depends also on the character of the players. Oliver Kahn never bothered to even whistle a single tone during the national anthems and still nobody had the slightest doubt about his loyalities :)
Singing is not befitting of the Kahn.True indeed. He probably shouldn't sing either, lest he accidentally bite someone.

[Jobu]

You guys are OK with me. Blue is running this show. :) I'm thoroughly enjoying this world cup, even if I am constantly bitching. Notice I'm not complaining about the Kiwis not getting called for offsides? Haha.

Because he wasn't offside.

The defender got a head on it in the air, then it hit Cannavaro, then the Kiwi player poked it in.
Perfectly legit goal from start to finish.

On the other hand De Rossi had to cheat to get the penalty call. Soon as the defender let go of his shirt De Rossi kicked his legs out and fell to the ground. It's shameful.

[TheEvian100]

This Peter Mokaba sh!t is really disturbing, I didn't know we'd be playing in a stadium named after such a great douche...

[KoTeMoRe]

Jobu dude, the Kiwi was off side. He was off side before Cannavaro touched the ball. It wasn't the defender but the Kiwi that deflected it. I'm having 25 different slow-mos here from a BELGIAN channel. And it was off side. Sad you have to be that anti-Eetalian.

[Jobu]

Jobu dude, the Kiwi was off side. He was off side before Cannavaro touched the ball. It wasn't the defender but the Kiwi that deflected it. I'm having 25 different slow-mos here from a BELGIAN channel. And it was off side. Sad you have to be that anti-Eetalian.

You may be right. I'm looking for the replay on youtube but they're all banned by FIFA.
If the touch in the air was from a Kiwi then it was offside.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

You may be right. I'm looking for the replay on youtube but they're all banned by FIFA.
If the touch in the air was from a Kiwi then it was offside.It was offside, but admittedly difficult to see without the slow-mo.

I couldn't see if Cannavaro caught it with his hand after the Kiwi header or not.

[KoTeMoRe]

With his pelvis...

[Breakfast in Vegas]

With his pelvis...His third leg? :)

[KoTeMoRe]

Basically...

They're pissing me off, playing these sh!t games.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Basically...

They're pissing me off, playing these sh!t games.They're playing like they've already assumed they're in the next round.

[KoTeMoRe]

It's not that they play bad, they always play like this, but god damn they already had two chances.

[WolverineBlue]

Even though Europe is looking like absolute crap, the usual suspects will go far in the knockout rounds....always seems to be this way. But sheesh, are the powerhouses looking stupid. More to come when Spain and Portugal finish their second games.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Even though Europe is looking like absolute crap, the usual suspects will go far in the knockout rounds....always seems to be this way. But sheesh, are the powerhouses looking stupid. More to come when Spain and Portugal finish their second games.Yes indeed, but I'll admit I'm really enjoying this cup since the second round started. Goals, drama, scandals. It's a proper football soap opera.

[brad]

This WC is all fcked up. Do not have other words to say.

[California Joe]

I, for one, am glad we have this place to bullsh*t, second guess, bitch, cheer, and cry foul over the world cup. Because frankly, I don't know anyone that actually cares about it around here, besides the kinda weird Argentinian neighbor next to my in laws that looks like Maradonna without the ****o 'tache. I enjoy the international viewpoints and opinions. It's informative and it makes watching the games more fun.

[oswald]

Maybe you should invite Luis over for beers and football.

[JUNKHO]

Not in a league with the rest of you about this futbol stuff but they just announced during the BRA/CIV game that the French team walked out of practice and refuse to play for the coach (and the PT coach quit as they show him throwing his credentials). Does that mean FR goes home and opens the way for another team?

[KoTeMoRe]

Nope they'll play and most probably loose. So Mejico and Ur-a-gay will go further.

[JUNKHO]

Nope they'll play and most probably loose. So Mejico and Ur-a-gay will go further.

merci.....

[CMNot]

There exists the possibility that France may not even turn out for Domenech. Which would be pretty incredible.

[creativeUsername]

I thought Anelka was just as much of a problem as Domenech, now the French team is behind him against Domenech? Or is it all just a clusterfvck of distrust and anger?

[CMNot]

I think the problem is more Domenech than anything else. There has been lots of grumbling about him for sometime and the FFF likely should have sorted the problem out a long time ago.

[xav]

Actually quite a few of the 98 team players who now work as tv consultants (Petit, Leboeuf, Pires, Lizarazu, Barthez) are pissed at both Domenech AND the players after what happened today. They said it is a disgrace to them and their achievement, and they wish the minister of sport fires the head of the federation and Domenech, and they said they are ready to help Le Blanc (a 98 champion too) when he takes over the team... because there's gonna be quite some work to be done.

[CMNot]

Barthez was a stone cold mad bastard too.

[toki]

If you like your drama, here's a bit of family feud before the Germany Ghana game.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2010/article-1287983/Kevin-Prince-Boateng-family-war-key-game.html


'After the things he said about my foul on Michael Ballack, we fell out,' said Kevin-Prince.
'We see the event differently. I said to him that we should go our separate ways.'
Jerome retorted: 'I don't want any more contact with him. Kevin thought I should have defended him and criticised Ballack. Now I don't care what he does. It really doesn't interest me any more.'


Kevin-Prince, whose name will be dirt in Germany if he does help to topple the country of his birth, has become a key figure in the Ghana midfield following the injury to Chelsea's Michael Essien.


'The German fans took lots of pictures and wanted autographs, and only a few fans insulted me,' said Boateng.
'But one child took a picture with me and after the photo he asked for my name. I said "Kevin-Prince Boateng" and he said 'Oh no!' and ran away.'

:lol:

Trivia: Kevin Prince Boateng is related to German world cup ('54) legend Helmut Rahn, who scored the winner in the game called the 'miracle of Bern'. Now he plays against Germany after he played for the German youth national teams.

[matthew.manhorn]

I hope North Korea beats Portugal. Not only that they're the underdog but if they lose they will be punished or sent to coal mines (no kidding). Best of luck North Korea! GOGOGOGO!

[xav]

England too has it own drama issues it seems like

England trains amid reports of another rift
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15342060?nclick_check=1

[pieisawesome]

Italy thread closed, so here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/Fat_Tony_/goitaly.jpg

[KoTeMoRe]

You're kindly requested to "square" off.

[Vehemence]

Italy thread closed, so here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/Fat_Tony_/goitaly.jpg

This is how they won in 2006. No sense changing a winning strategy.

[SmoothieX12]

You're kindly requested to "square" off.

Mr. KoTeMoRe, as promised (since for some incomprehensible reason the thread of Brasil-Ivory Coast is closed) allow me to introduce You to a little bit of football realities. Especially since some first results are beginning to pour in.

1. Yesterday's statement of Luis Fabiano that this was a "hand of God" created immediate reaction from...and You have guessed it--inventor of the Hand of God Mr. Diego Armando Maradona, who called Fabiano's (of course self-servingly) and referee's behavior a tragicomedy and openly stated that Fabiano twice played with his hand. But the former legendary Bundesliga refereeing boss Helmut Krug called for immediate disqualification of Fabiano and called his behavior unsportsmanlike and his comments a lie. Interesting, isn't it?

2. Now a little bit to the history of the Brazilian team's issue. If You attentively review the history of the MODERN-day Brazil's national team (and the modern day starts from WC 1974, why it is so--is a separate issue but we certainly can discuss it if You wish) You will notice an amazing trend--a consistent hype about this team on every single World Cup which is a result of, as always, the unreasonable and heightened expectations of the torcida and then of the global following of this team based on the only single and open criteria--personal ability of Brazilians on the ball, that is pure histrionics and showoff. This is one of the lasting legacies of the Brazil of Garrincha and Pele, that is the team of 1958-1962 and 1970 when football was slow and tactically rigid. You should remember Pele's "You will score as many as You can, we will score as many as we want" (c).

Realities of the 70-s through 2000-s are very different, however, and one of those realities are:

a) Complete closing of the personal technical gap between Brazil and European teams (I remember how Michelle Hidalgo was insulted when magnificent French team was called a "European Brazilians")--abilities on the ball of Best, Platini, Tigana, Butrageno, Scifo, Zavarov, Cantona, Gullit, Rencenbrink, Del Piero, Bergkamp, Zidane and now Iniesta, Xavi, Sneider, Arshavin, and the list can go on forever, were and are as good if not better than of ANY Brazilian player. But again--trickery with the ball is not everything since in 1974 football changed forever.
b) Each time Brazil became Champions in 1994 and 2002 it was always with the scandal--with Dutch in quarterfinal in 1994 (with atrocious refereeing) and, of course, in 2002 with the whole team "going Rivaldo". Needless to say that Brazil mostly appeals to the most.....hm....inexperienced audience (that is why so many teenagers are in the following of Brazil) which judges the game only for its most surface (shallow) aspect and theatrics , forgetting, of course, the fact that it is the team, which plays football and not the bunch of the individuals. Do I have to remind how many times the floor was wiped with Brazil (as always "favorites" and "the best team ever") on the World Cups?? I certainly can--starting from 1974.

For a years now Brazil was drifting towards European way of playing (Duh, let's look at the present Brazilian team--especially it's defensive line, which is, BTW, awesome so far), incorporating European tactical thought and training methods and, of course, de facto maturing its best in Europe. And yesterday's game showed it perfectly--Ivory Coast looked more Brazilian than Brazil, which was more reminiscent of Italian team of 1982 up till the second goal when the hell broke loose and good ole' Brazil emerged yet again with childish pathos of appeals to God, with feminine sentimentalism and emotional exhibitionism and so came out its supporters, who do not give a sh..t about justice and sportsmanship and try to convince themselves and everybody else around that what they see is not what others see--that is the end justifies the means. Well, if Brazil cannot win by any other means (I think it can, but...) such as playing handball and basketball--fine, but allow me to remind You one simple truism--if something smells like sh..t, tastes like sh..t, looks like sh..t and feels like sh..t the chances are it is sh..t. And that is precisely what happened yesterday in the game with Ivory Coast NO MATTER how good (or bad) did Brazil play, because if it would have been otherwise all WCs would have been held by Fax--sending each-other lists of the players recruited for the national teams and then deciding who is better by reading the names. And that is precisely the criteria You offered yesterday as main argument stating that Brazil would have won it anyway--which is a typical, classic, entitlement and arrogant, self-assured attitude of fans of the technically gifted teams such as Brazil or.....FC Barcelona and that is why You used yesterday this argument of completed passes. How about 2005 Champions League Final?? Milan should have walked away with the Cup after the first half and that is what You offered to do yesterday for Brazil.

Would have Brazil won yesterday, should Fabiano's goal have been disallowed, as it should have been and Fabiano should have been shown at least yellow--I do not know and do not even pretend to know and that is why football is a beautiful game--anything is possible. But, of course, Brazil should have won in 1982 (but it did not), it should have won in 1986 but Platini was having an awesome run and Socrates was not. Brazil should have won in 1998 but French wiped the floor with Brazil in final, Brazil should have certainly won in 2006 but damn French.....

P.S. I always liked Henry until recently and You should know why--now this man and footballer is dead for me (as well as for many), if You want, make a parallels which are warranted and irresistible.If You want to talk about tactics of football--open the separate thread, as I said before, I will gladly join when I will have more time.

[KoTeMoRe]

Dude, there was a game yesterday, it was aired live and I recorded it. The game was clear...Brazil was the better team. CIV was playing hideously while they had the ball. PERIOD. Watch the first goal...too slow, too sloppy.

I'm talikng about facts...you're bitching about a hand ball. Yes the ref was crap, but he was crap to both sides, and he hurt Brazil the most, by not sanctionning the deliberate and repeated hist on Brazil midfielders (wich resulted in Elano being carted off with a direct hit). After that agression, no red card at all.

CIV was a small team, a street/park team with no tactics and no game. Watch the game again and again. Brazil didn't sweat. You might bitch, but the score and the game are on Brazil's side. And I dislike the Brazilian side. They got class that's why CIV players started distributing ankle and ligament hits from the 50th minute onwards. And Keita's show was the cherry on the top of the cake.

Chill man...

[tluassa]

Had an interesting course today at University, topic was "violence in Sport" (British history seminar ^^)

the presentation included this video ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIWWYOqG_9s

so much for "soccer is for pussies" :)

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Trivia: Kevin Prince Boateng is related to German world cup ('54) legend Helmut Rahn, who scored the winner in the game called the 'miracle of Bern'. Now he plays against Germany after he played for the German youth national teams.More trivia: Kevin-Prince Boateng is despicable. He only plays for Ghana because he didn't have enough talent (or discipline) to play for Germany.

Germany can lose to any team this Cup, just not to Kevin-Prince Boateng's Ghana. Or Italy.

[Silent Reader]

More trivia: Kevin-Prince Boateng is despicable. He only plays for Ghana because he didn't have enough talent (or discipline) to play for Germany.

Germany can lose to any team this Cup, just not to Kevin-Prince Boateng's Ghana. Or Italy.


or England - because I do not want to read the headlines in their newspapers declaring total victory and how they destroyed German panzers again after WW1 and WW2 even if they lose the next game afterwards etc... ^^

[Breakfast in Vegas]

or England - because I do not want to read the headlines in their newspapers declaring total victory and how they destroyed German panzers again after WW1 and WW2 even if they lose the next game afterwards etc... ^^I left that out because it is impossible to lose to England. Unthinkable.

[SmoothieX12]

Dude, there was a game yesterday, it was aired live and I recorded it. The game was clear...Brazil was the better team. CIV was playing hideously while they had the ball. PERIOD. Watch the first goal...too slow, too sloppy.

I'm talikng about facts...you're bitching about a hand ball. Yes the ref was crap, but he was crap to both sides, and he hurt Brazil the most, by not sanctionning the deliberate and repeated hist on Brazil midfielders (wich resulted in Elano being carted off with a direct hit). After that agression, no red card at all.

CIV was a small team, a street/park team with no tactics and no game. Watch the game again and again. Brazil didn't sweat. You might bitch, but the score and the game are on Brazil's side. And I dislike the Brazilian side. They got class that's why CIV players started distributing ankle and ligament hits from the 50th minute onwards. And Keita's show was the cherry on the top of the cake.

Chill man...

Hm, Sir. I do not need to chill. I am absolutely calm and fact is--getting the kick out of this discussion. You again are missing the whole point of football as the game--watch the episode of Futurama where Leela kicks the butt of her sensei, the one who has the "spirit of the warrior". The logic of that sensei is precisely the logic which You operate and this logic is a total lack of thereof, since what You state here is a complete lack of understanding of the principle of causality--that effect cannot precede the cause and of the external factors. But at least You finally agreed that the ref was crap, however, I state more than that he was crap but that by allowing an atrocious second goal (now the commentators of the game Spain-Honduras remarked--since yesterday we have a new rules in football(c) especially against a truly beautiful goal by Villa. Thus allow me to explain again--in 1980 the Soviet National Hockey Team was correctly considered to be a Red Machine, the US hockey Olympic Team consisted of the college hockey players and yet, they won--you know why?? Because the game was played by the rules and because the length of any hockey game is three periods 20 minutes each. Should it have been 4 periods 20 minutes each Soviets would certainly equalize and won the game (this is by admission of the American players themselves) but they did not--because the rules have been obeyed and the game was played properly. And it is known today as Miracle On Ice which it was. I can continue the list of consistent complexion of the football game forever and believe me--I have a lot to recall here. Plus, I of course, do not buy for a second that You "dislike the Brazilian side" (c). As for the watching the game--yep, I watched it yesterday and can state that we watched different games prior to second goal.

[szr]

the presentation included this video ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIWWYOqG_9s

so much for "soccer is for pussies" :)That's like saying golf isn't for pussies because golfers occasionally get struck by lightning. That dude made zero effort to try and play it off like he was fine (refer to the Black Knight of Monty Python fame). Nice shorts, by the way.

[tluassa]

That's like saying golf isn't for pussies because golfers occasionally get struck by lightning. That dude made zero effort to try and play it off like he was fine (refer to the Black Knight of Monty Python fame). Nice shorts, by the way.

First soccer, now golf ... dude wtf is wrong with you :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNRN6ZL9BEY

Golfers are hardcore :)

[KoTeMoRe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvr53fe0TIg

Hum sorry to our french members...

[WolverineBlue]

The owner of my company is going to be in town when the US plays Algeria. Needless to say, I'll be pissed, and sober :)

[mudbunny]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvr53fe0TIg

Hum sorry to our french members...

Oh don't be sorry, the only team to play with less heart than the French in this tournament is Italy.

[mudbunny]

The owner of my company is going to be in town when the US plays Algeria. Needless to say, I'll be pissed, and sober :)

WB, c'mon man, WTF?
I KNOW you're not telling me that you're going to miss this match?
Tell the big boss-man that you're hospitalized or something.
This is unacceptable dude.

[WolverineBlue]

WB, c'mon man, WTF?
I KNOW you're not telling me that you're going to miss this match?
Tell the big boss-man that you're hospitalized or something.
This is unacceptable dude.

I just got off the phone with him, and we're meeting in the "morning." I firmly believe the morning starts after 10:30am, CDT.

[mudbunny]

I just got off the phone with him, and we're meeting in the "morning." I firmly believe the morning starts after 10:30am, CDT.

hahaha, now THAT'S what I'm talking about!!!
We're gonna need all of our soldiers (fans) for this fight.
Algeria may not be a powerhouse but they have alot of spirit and will play very hard.
They haven't scored a goal yet which plays right into the hands of our pathetic (hyperbole, yeah) defense.
My spider-senses are telling me 2-0 U.S, with goals by Altidore and Clint Dempsey.

[WolverineBlue]

hahaha, now THAT'S what I'm talking about!!!
We're gonna need all of our soldiers (fans) for this fight.
Algeria may not be a powerhouse but they have alot of spirit and will play very hard.
They haven't scored a goal yet which plays right into the hands of our pathetic (hyperbole, yeah) defense.
My spider-senses are telling me 2-0 U.S, with goals by Altidore and Clint Dempsey.

If we can, for once in our lives, not give up a goal in the first 15 minutes, we'll be fine. I hope we can thrash Algeria like we did Egypt in Confed Cup last summer.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

If we can, for once in our lives, not give up a goal in the first 15 minutes, we'll be fine. I hope we can thrash Algeria like we did Egypt in Confed Cup last summer.I'm not confident at all. Defense is really a mess.

Hopefully we can score enough to end 1 up when time's called.

[toki]

I'm not confident at all. Defense is really a mess.
Hopefully we can score enough to end 1 up when time's called.
Algeria showed some pace and confidence, i can't tell if they're just too harmless to score, but it's a do or die situation, who knows.
Can't really tell how the Americans fare, good luck.

Anyway, it will be a tough day for Africa. I do believe 100% that we'll win. The quality is there, the confidence, too. There's no arrogant swagger or denial of Ghana, simply concentration on our own quality. That's what i feel coming from the boys.
Ghana didn't score a single goal out of the game. Lahm pretty much promised a win. That's what i wanna hear.

The only one who will eat his words is traitor Kevin Prince Boateng, who already promised dancing on our misfortune. HA!

[Chimera]

The US will dominate Algeria, they seem to have heart when playing the ball, I like that a lot.

[California Joe]

Alright, I hate to sound like a tard if there's a simple answer but why do some players have what looks like shiny strips in the fabric of their jerseys across their backs and under their arms and others don't? It's obvious on the blue jerseys France and Argentina had on, but only a few players wear them...

[Redox]

I guess some players just like their shirts tighter / more aligned to the body.
Maybe for the feel, maybe for the looks.

[Jobu]

Alright, I hate to sound like a tard if there's a simple answer but why do some players have what looks like shiny strips in the fabric of their jerseys across their backs and under their arms and others don't? It's obvious on the blue jerseys France and Argentina had on, but only a few players wear them...

They're TPU strips which are basically just elastic tape so the jersey can be more form-fitting.

It supposedly makes it harder for the opponent to grab your jersey and adds some muscle support.

[creativeUsername]

looser jerseys are easier for someone to tug on and hold you back.

[Jobu]

They're the new "breatheright" nasal strips.

It's a gimmick.

[California Joe]

Ahhhh OK. Like a lot of Linemen in American Football wear their jerseys super tight...The strips just look kind of retarded. Just wear a tighter jersey for chrissakes.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Argies beat Mexico, but an interesting matchup indeed. No pushover.

Urus beat South Koreans.

[KoTeMoRe]

Alright, I hate to sound like a tard if there's a simple answer but why do some players have what looks like shiny strips in the fabric of their jerseys across their backs and under their arms and others don't? It's obvious on the blue jerseys France and Argentina had on, but only a few players wear them...

Compression PU (Adidas makes 'em: Technic collection). It was a track and field novelty first but now Adidas has pretty much spread them across it's sport "performance" collection. Sometimes I can't help myself from thinking that Min' is head designer at Adidas.

[Chimera]

Thread has been closed so I revive the debate here:


Let me guess, Ailton. Hehe.
I really think Bayern simply know how to treat a difficult player. It's also easier on club level. Maybe the french side can profit from Bayerns educational service one day. He has some major character flaws, but remains one of the best. The french federation probably needs to be tougher on the players.

I also think the financial side of his contract with the Bayern makes him shut his mouth and behave accordingly while there is little financial incentives in national team, thus, he allows himself to behave like a cvnt when desired.

It will be hard to get him back in the team, he's harmed so many people, including the fans.

[toki]

Thread has been closed so I revive the debate here:

I also think the financial side of his contract with the Bayern makes him shut his mouth and behave accordingly while there is little financial incentives in national team, thus, he allows himself to behave like a cvnt when desired.

It will be hard to get him back in the team, he's harmed so many people, including the fans.

Phillip Lahm was slapped with a huge fine for giving a critic interview about internal affairs to a newspaper last year. The bosses of Bayern are not too lenient about not staying in line. But that's typical for club football at the highest levels.
Yep, In international competition you need teamwork and character above all. In club football you need a well oiled machine on every position. Do what you're paid for and shut up. The "11 friends" ideal sometimes works in national teams, barely ever in club football, but in the same time the balance in a national team is more fragile.

[BearInBunnySuit]

It's OK Wolfie, the US of A will make the next round. They didn't win yesterday but that was one of the best comebacks I have seen in a while, especially considering they were up against 12 players on the pitch.

Just wanted to quote myself here.

[xav]

The US is on the express way to semi finals: they will meet up Ghana then the winner of S. Korea vs. Urugay

[KoTeMoRe]

They'll meet Ur-a-Gay and will be defeated. And I'll be saddened.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

The US is on the express way to semi finals: they will meet up Ghana then the winner of S. Korea vs. UrugayIf they can figure out a way to shoot goals without needing 20 chances to do so.

I like the matchups though, agreed.

[Gleipnir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsTWjueuLz4

Mistake? What mistake?

[Jobu]

The US is on the express way to semi finals: they will meet up Ghana then the winner of S. Korea vs. Urugay

I hope you're being sarcastic. USA would not be favored in any of those matches.

[xav]

I hope you're being sarcastic. USA would not be favored in any of those matches.

So far has USA shown they would deal with Ghana or S. Korea just fine.

Agreed it could be tougher against Urugay

[WolverineBlue]

Wow!!!! Just got back from my heart transplant after the USA match -- woo hooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amazing clutch goal -- Donovan for President 2020

[KoTeMoRe]

Jeesus Jobu, the US prevailed...they got talent and will Bomb Ghana(c) effortlessly to face Ur-a-Gay. In no way will Ghana be favored because it's an African Team...In no way. The Ref will most probably be Euro (Rosetti) so there will be far less bickering than with the likes of Kulubaly & Co.

[Ordie]

So far this has been the most exciting World Cup in recent memory.

Unpredicatable..........................................................

[toki]

This is one of 3 keeper blunders in recent meetings of Germany England.
I remember the Kuranyi goal at Wembley and the blunder in the last meeting (2008).
We should simply shoot from every spot. One will go in. All your keepers belong to us.

http://www.youtube.com/v/fBf1VyqxtnA

[Britishhawk]

This is one of 3 keeper blunders in recent meetings of Germany England.
I remember the Kuranhyi goal at Wembley and the blunder in the last meeting (2008).
We should simply shoot from every spot. One will go in. All your keepers belong to us.


Yeah yeah yeah, boring. Germany will have a tough time, England are on the up. The players already say they're extremely excited and confident about playing zee Germans.

England started off with 2 poor games, Germany started off good but their two recent games have been unconvincing. You must be secretly nervous ;D

[toki]

Yeah yeah yeah, boring. Germany will have a tough time, England are on the up. The players already say they're extremely excited and confident about playing zee Germans.

England started off with 2 poor games, Germany started off good but their two recent games have been unconvincing. You must be secretly nervous ;D


Germany will have a tough time. England not.
Yep, that's why Germany will lose. You're right.

[CMNot]

It's going to be a cracker. Can't wait.

Hoping to see Milner clatter that Turkish lad early doors, put down some marker of intent. The winner will be whichever one cleans up their sloppy finishing first.

[armored_diplomacy]

Wow!!!! Just got back from my heart transplant after the USA match -- woo hooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amazing clutch goal -- Donovan for President 2020

The US in the next round in Worldcup ... just wow.

[Britishhawk]

Germany will have a tough time. England not.
Yep, that's why Germany will lose. You're right.

http://i48.tinypic.com/241o5dt.jpg

We've got terry.

[toki]

We've got terry.
.......................
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5919/81310170.jpg

[KoTeMoRe]

BTW nice jersey...Fall SeeLöwe begining

[Elbs]

http://i47.tinypic.com/16kqr8l.jpg

Messi celebrates his 23rd birthday today.

[CMNot]

Klose back for the England game?

I may dislike his 'style', but Germany look far more effective going forward with him than without him.

[toki]

Klose back for the England game?
I may dislike his 'style', but Germany look far more effective going forward with him than without him.

On paper we have a much better striker in the squad, Kießling. I see him coming in in certain situations. But at this type pf game it's all about psychology. Nothing else matters, not the past season or current form. "Was zählt is' auf'm Platz." (On the pitch is what counts) Hahah, i love phrases.

[Stevey1]

Really looking forward to Sunday. Should be an epic encounter.

Really pleased with the England performance yesterday. I don't care if we win, lose or draw if we put the effort in and there was plenty of that yesterday-symbolised by John Terry's heroic 'I don't care if I lose my teeth' self-sacrifice. After criticising him, I must give Capello credit for his changes yesterday. Milner looked class (the first time England without Beckham have looked dangerous on the right). The most pleasing thing was that after taking the lead England didn't sit back like they have in the past, but beseiged the Slovenia goal and were unlucky not to win 3 or 4-0 in the end.

Germany look solid as always, but were somewhat fortunate that Ghana missed so many chances last night (more than Germany, particularly in the second half). Lahm should have been sent off and a penalty given too.

[toki]

Really looking forward to Sunday. Should be an epic encounter.

Really pleased with the England performance yesterday. I don't care if we win, lose or draw if we put the effort in and there was plenty of that yesterday-symbolised by John Terry's heroic 'I don't care if I lose my teeth' self-sacrifice. After criticising him, I must give Capello credit for his changes yesterday. Milner looked class (the first time England without Beckham have looked dangerous on the right). The most pleasing thing was that after taking the lead England didn't sit back like they have in the past, but beseiged the Slovenia goal and were unlucky not to win 3 or 4-0 in the end.

Germany look solid as always, but were somewhat fortunate that Ghana missed so many chances last night (more than Germany, particularly in the second half). Lahm should have been sent off and a penalty given too.

I don't care how we play, as long as we win. It's all that matters.
Try to read into our last game, it has zero importance for sunday.

Wait... yes you are favourites, our form is decreasing.

[Chimera]

I don't care how we play, as long as we win. It's all that matters.

That's an Italian mindset. Don't do this to yourself toki. Germany will win, and the right way, by playing proper and nice football.

[toki]

That's an Italian mindset. Don't do this to yourself toki. Germany will win, and the right way, by playing proper and nice football.
They will by their own style, but against England only winning counts. Germany didn't play beautiful in the last wc meeting 1990, but who cares. I don't really remember the 1996 game at Wembley, the only thing burned in my memories is Möller strutting along the stands Gascoigne style, making the english blood boil. After finishing them off. England is meant to be beaten, style is for every other game.
And if i would be english i would not hope to play good and "proper", regardless of score.

[CMNot]

We just have to make sure that no 'typical Germans' theatrics leave us with ten men p-)

I fancy it if we pore bodies forward and get stuck in. Whilst the Germans look as wasteful as us in front of goal, if we give them too much practice then we will at some point concede our first goal to an opposition player.

Either way, the WC is now over on Sunday. The only bigger game would be a WC final. Although Argentina in the quarters would be very tasty.

[mudbunny]

Wow is it fun watching the Italians crap all over themselves, if this team had any heart they might be dangerous.
As a U.S fan I could care less who wins the Germany/England game, but I could really see this match waking up Rooney/England and I see them winning this game 2-1, bye-bye Germany. Have a nice summer.

[teleloe]

First blockbuster of the off-season:

Byfuglien, along with D Brent Sopel, F Ben Eager and F Akim Aliu, are heading to Atlanta in exchange for the Thrashers' first round pick (24th overall) in the 2010 NHL Entry Draft, the 54th pick, and forwards Marty Reasoner, Jeremy Morin, and Joey Crabb.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=325488


Looks like ****gers gonna have to deal with Byfuglien again

Edit: Seems like this years off-season theme is to get rid of playoff heros hahaha

[TheEvian100]

US for the win in this WC :)

[mudbunny]

Cannavaro falls asleep on the throw-in, Slovakia bury's the hatchet.
Lippi puts in some guys under 40 years of age and they play well, wow, big surprise.
What the hell was Lippi thinking picking this squad?