Olympics: Athens rattled by bomb and threat of Hotel Strike

[BlackRain]

Athens rattled by bomb and threat of Games hotel strike

By Guy Alexander in Athens
Source: Belfast Telegraph (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=548084)
05 August 2004

Athens had a security fright yesterday, nine days before the opening ceremony of the Olympics, when as a home-made bomb detonated near an electrical substation in an outlying area of the capital. The device, a camping-gas canister with a triggering fuse, is familiar to police from scores of similar attacks by anarchist bands that rarely lead to injuries.

"Residents heard a loud noise at dawn and called police," an officer said. "But they did not find anything and a worker who discovered the damage inside the toilet of the building."

Police said it was not clear if the minor blast, that damaged a deserted building in the western area of Acharnes and caused no injuries, was linked to the Games which run from 13 August until 29 August.


Barely one-third of the 5.3 million available tickets had been sold in July, a development that probably could be attributed to lingering worries about terrorism, both domestic and international, for the first post-9/11 Summer Olympics.

The building belongs to the company maintaining the city's new multimillion-pound ring road, and is close to a substation of Athens' troubled electricity grid. The city has suffered two major blackouts in recent weeks, raising questions over its ability to meet power needs when more than a million visitors arrive this month.

Greece's security forces are implementing ad €1bn (£660m) lockdown to safeguard the first summer Olympics since 9/11. The services also face a potentially embarrassing lawsuit after two Mexican reporters yesterday launched a legal action against the coastguard. The crew from Televista said officers arrested and beat them after spotting them filming at the Olympic port of Piraeus on Monday.

The broadcaster, an Olympic rights holder, said in the lawsuit that the reporters and their translator were thrown into an unmarked car, taken to an officers' gymnasium and assaulted. The Greek government has launched a separate investigation, vowing that any wrongdoing would be swiftly punished.

Athens Olympic organisers described the alleged beating as "highly regrettable" and said there would be no repeats over the next month. The Greek police have an appalling reputation for brutality and were strongly criticised for human rights abuses in an Amnesty International report last year. No Greek police officer has served a custodial sentence for crimes committed while serving.

A new cloud appeared on the horizon for Games organisers yesterday as hotel workers joined the epidemic of strikes threatening to derail otherwise impressive progress in getting the city ready for the Games.

They joined doctors, ambulance drivers, railway workers and taxi drivers, all angrily protesting broken government promises over Olympic-related bonus payments. The government has backtracked on commitments after the budget for the Games soared over £4bn.

A one-day work stoppage by hundreds of low-paid service workers shut off traffic on the city's north-south arterial road. Striking workers, including Greeks and foreign staff, say they earn an average £300 per month, similar to the day rate charged by some of Athens's most expensive hotels. They want salaries doubled to what they say is the minimum wage of €1,100.

"We love the tourists and the people, but we have to survive as well," Nicos Papageorgiou, a hotel worker, said. We can't survive on this." One union leader said: "They [hotel owners] have to take responsibility and deal with the problems we face."

Hoteliers called the strike "blackmail", after a tourism slump for the third consecutive year. They say workers got pay rises through an industrial tribunal ruling in June.

[achilles]

I see you are suddenly interested in the security of the Olympics...thats good....
I have posted elsewhere about these home-made camping gas 'bombs' and to what degree they jeopardize security. Its just kids fooling around trying to cause trouble and nothing more. Too bad media all over the world take these stories and make a big deal out of it but thats normal as is busines.

I suppose you wouldnt be afraid to go to the Olympics would you? ;)

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

good point achilles. It takes only 1 idiot to do something in Athens toget international attention....


The device, a camping-gas canister with a triggering fuse, is familiar to police from scores of similar attacks by anarchist bands that rarely lead to injuries

Sounds like a common thing there....

Of course hes not going to feel safe, theres no M1A1 tanks and 500,000 rangers ready to be helo dropped "just in case".

[BlackRain]

I wish that I could go.

I have heard from friends that outside of Athens, it is a very beautiful and friendly place to visit.

Just that it is too far and I have not really been following any of the athletes that will participate from the USA lately.

[Secret Squirrel]

Athens looks pretty nice...if you dont mind the pollution. ;)

[achilles]

It takes only 1 idiot to do something in Athens toget international attention....

Exactly, so shall we worry about a bunch of idiots who like to call themselves 'anarchists'? ;)



Sounds like a common thing there....

Its very common and i am sure there will be more fireworks of that kind even during the olympics...big deal.


Of course hes not going to feel safe, theres no M1A1 tanks and 500,000 rangers ready to be helo dropped "just in case".

:lol:

[achilles]

I have heard from friends that outside of Athens, it is a very beautiful and friendly place to visit.

Well...i am not the right person to talk about that am i? But your friends may have a point ;)

Oh and squirell...pollution? ghm true ghm ghm but save those comments for after the games if you dont mind....we still got some spare tickets to sell ;)

[usa320]

regardless of how much damage these punks with gas cans may have caused (or not caused for that manner) i still think the high security in athens is necessary, and even feel there should be MORE security.

[achilles]

if you do a bit of research on the security measures taken so far you might have the feeling that maybe the measures are excessive...as far as i am concerned better be safe than sorry

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

regardless of how much damage these punks with gas cans may have caused (or not caused for that manner) i still think the high security in athens is necessary, and even feel there should be MORE security.

So you all for the M1A1 tanks and the 500,000 helo troops circling the games ready to drop at a moments notice? Would you sleep better at night if America just ran the security for the games?

[Tom The Hunter]

greece is full of greek terrorist organisations, lot of times linked with the government.
as 17 november. Few times ago they killed british military atache in Atene.

[achilles]

greece is full of greek terrorist organisations, lot of times linked with the government.
as 17 november. Few times ago they killed british military atache in Atene.

Ladies and gentlemen i present you 'Tom the Hunter'. The man who knows every single piece of inside information regarding the existence and action of terrorist groups within Greece. He is all yours...ask him whatever you like...

Hey Tom! Any ideas of where Osama is? :lol:

[Tom The Hunter]

greece is full of greek terrorist organisations, lot of times linked with the government.
as 17 november. Few times ago they killed british military atache in Atene.

Ladies and gentlemen i present you 'Tom the Hunter'. The man who knows every single piece of inside information regarding the existence and action of terrorist groups within Greece. He is all yours...ask him whatever you like...

Hey Tom! Any ideas of where Osama is? :lol:

jasu malaka.
So, tell me about 17 november organization, and the assasination of british military atache in greece.
Ego thelo na gamisu mana su moni.

[achilles]

greece is full of greek terrorist organisations, lot of times linked with the government.
as 17 november. Few times ago they killed british military atache in Atene.

Ladies and gentlemen i present you 'Tom the Hunter'. The man who knows every single piece of inside information regarding the existence and action of terrorist groups within Greece. He is all yours...ask him whatever you like...

Hey Tom! Any ideas of where Osama is? :lol:

jasu malaka.
So, tell me about 17 november organization, and the assasination of british military atache in greece.
Ego thelo na gamisu mana su moni.

lol dude you are a f*** moving joke! ok just for the moderators:

jasu malaka=hi asshole
ego thelo gamiso mana su moni=i want to f*** your mother's P***y
( in lousy greek by the way)

I wouldnt mind your cursing but you are an overall ****ed up case so thats why i am giving you in.

[Tom The Hunter]

so, what about 17 november? the assasination of british military atache?
the fact you are antiamericans? the help that greece gives to terrorists (ocalan)? the fact you helped war criminals, helping milloshevic and his criminals? the fact you are traitors, because together with france, helped serbia when NATO was bombing it?

[achilles]

so, what about 17 november? the assasination of british military atache?
the fact you are antiamericans? the help that greece gives to terrorists (ocalan)? the fact you helped war criminals, helping milloshevic and his criminals? the fact you are traitors, because together with france, helped serbia when NATO was bombing it?

No cursing this time? lol i see you are getting serious...listen Tommy, i better start a conversation with my dog instead of wasting my time with you. At least i can expect some sort of reasonable answer from my dog.

Say hi to Tirana from me when you go back. Salute

[Kampfbaer]

:bash: :bash: :cantbeli:

Sorry for the spam

[mattnwnc03]

ive got a bad feeling about the olmpics, somthings gonna go down.all i can say is id hate to be an american athlete.

[achilles]

ive got a bad feeling about the olmpics, somthings gonna go down.all i can say is id hate to be an american athlete.

Nah! it ll be fine i guarantee you ;)

[Romulus]

ive got a bad feeling about the olmpics, somthings gonna go down.all i can say is id hate to be an american athlete.

Nah! it ll be fine i guarantee you ;)

Except for the Boo's some direspectful asshats are going to shout when our athletes compete.

[Gatling]

Yup, I think everything is gonna be OK too.BTW , job well done to the Greeks , everybody was saying a couple of months ago that Greece would never be ready on time blah blah blah......

[achilles]

ive got a bad feeling about the olmpics, somthings gonna go down.all i can say is id hate to be an american athlete.

Nah! it ll be fine i guarantee you ;)

Except for the Boo's some direspectful asshats are going to shout when our athletes compete.

i m afraid thats unavoidable in Greece, but i think apart from those asshats, most of the people will be too excited to boo your athletes.
And trust me the boos actually go to some american politicians not people ;)

[Romulus]

And trust me the boos actually go to some american politicians not people

Well ****ing boo the politicians, not people who are representing our country. Is that going to be the "Official" excuse this Olympics? "We are just booing American politics".

I hope they keep things civil and keep politics out of the Olympics.

[achilles]

Yup, I think everything is gonna be OK too.BTW , job well done to the Greeks , everybody was saying a couple of months ago that Greece would never be ready on time blah blah blah......

god...a voice of optimism in the middle of the desert :D

[Kilgor]

they were cutting it very very close in terms of time left though.
So you can understand why there was some doubt.

[achilles]

they were cutting it very very close in terms of time left though.
So you can understand why there was some doubt.

absolutely. And was totally outraged by the fact that nothing was constructed between 1997 (when we were assigned to host the games) and 2000. It was too close and i think we should ve had a bit more time for testing the facilities.

But thats the Greek way....last last minute ;)

[achilles]

And trust me the boos actually go to some american politicians not people

Well f*** boo the politicians, not people who are representing our country. Is that going to be the "Official" excuse this Olympics? "We are just booing American politics".

I hope they keep things civil and keep politics out of the Olympics.

no there is no official excuse about anything...its just the reason behind boo-ing. You might not hear any booing at all you never know...even if you do, just relax, ignore and keep in mind that its 200 people at the corner of the stadium makin all the fuz...not every damn Greek hates americans man cmon lol

[Tom The Hunter]

so, what about 17 november? the assasination of british military atache?
the fact you are antiamericans? the help that greece gives to terrorists (ocalan)? the fact you helped war criminals, helping milloshevic and his criminals? the fact you are traitors, because together with france, helped serbia when NATO was bombing it?

No cursing this time? lol i see you are getting serious...listen Tommy, i better start a conversation with my dog instead of wasting my time with you. At least i can expect some sort of reasonable answer from my dog.

Say hi to Tirana from me when you go back. Salute

so you go to be ****ed by your dog. This the only thing you can do.
Any answer for my questions?

[flanker7]

quote="Tom The Hunter"]so, what about 17 november? the assasination of british military atache?
the fact you are antiamericans? the help that greece gives to terrorists (ocalan)? the fact you helped war criminals, helping milloshevic and his criminals? the fact you are traitors, because together with france, helped serbia when NATO was bombing it?[/quote]


I'll try to answer your questions if you don't mind.
a. Antiamericanism. Well, Greeks don't hate Americans. They don't hate the people that is. Most Greeks however have a big dislike over the US policy over the years from which they suffered a lot. Especially after 1967. Some examples are the US policy regarding the military dictatorship, the policy against Turkish claims over the Aegean, the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and more.
b.Ocalan. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Kurds, although the fact that they engaged in terrorist activities over the years, are fighting for their freedom, their human and political rights in a country that has no respect for them.
cTraidors and helping the Serbs. If you mean Bosnia, I think that you can't find an innocent party in that war, not the Serbs, not the Muslims, not the Croats and not NATO. As for Kossovo, many countries had dissagreements for that war. Greece chose not to bomb Serbia. It was against the war and countries are still intitle to having their own foreign policies and not comply with US. Besides, Serbs are the only Balkan nations that hasn't been in war with Greece and better keep itthat way.
I hope I answered your questions with respect.
Take care

[Tom The Hunter]

quote="Tom The Hunter"]so, what about 17 november? the assasination of british military atache?
the fact you are antiamericans? the help that greece gives to terrorists (ocalan)? the fact you helped war criminals, helping milloshevic and his criminals? the fact you are traitors, because together with france, helped serbia when NATO was bombing it?


I'll try to answer your questions if you don't mind.
a. Antiamericanism. Well, Greeks don't hate Americans. They don't hate the people that is. Most Greeks however have a big dislike over the US policy over the years from which they suffered a lot. Especially after 1967. Some examples are the US policy regarding the military dictatorship, the policy against Turkish claims over the Aegean, the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and more.
b.Ocalan. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Kurds, although the fact that they engaged in terrorist activities over the years, are fighting for their freedom, their human and political rights in a country that has no respect for them.
cTraidors and helping the Serbs. If you mean Bosnia, I think that you can't find an innocent party in that war, not the Serbs, not the Muslims, not the Croats and not NATO. As for Kossovo, many countries had dissagreements for that war. Greece chose not to bomb Serbia. It was against the war and countries are still intitle to having their own foreign policies and not comply with US. Besides, Serbs are the only Balkan nations that hasn't been in war with Greece and better keep itthat way.
I hope I answered your questions with respect.
Take care[/quote]

Thanks for your kind and civil response.
1- greeks cn hate evry one they like.
2-what about human rights in greecE? lot of time, greek policemen, kill by cold blood emigrants, and no one was never condemned by greek courts.
Ethnic minorances have absolutely no human right. This is the conclusion of Strasbourgh.
3-the war in yougoslavia, was a result of scouvinism of serbs, and the influence of russia, that want an entry to adriatic sea. Servia is only the serv of russia. these nations could better think to stop the starvation in their countries. greece is k with these mentlity, as one of the most scouvinist countries of the world. in greece, the religion is signed in passport. this is not democracy and civilisation, seems a nasi that put J in the passports. greece helped serbia to violate the embargo, sold weapons to serbia, and greek banks helped millosevic gang. you dream to heritage the Bisanthyne glory, you have only the bysanthinism
4-greek and french officers, traited nato, becaus they sold to servs secret informations, especially about electronic warfare. the nato loses in Kosova were risult of this traity.
Kind regards, Tom.

[flanker7]

You, Tom, as with every one, are intitled to your own opinion.

[Tom The Hunter]

You, Tom, as with every one, are intitled to your own opinion.

Sir, is a real pleasure to meet you! Sincerely!
Each one keeps his opinions, and my oppinion is that you are a real "palikari"!
Reagards. :hug:

[achilles]

Well Tommy i hit a nerve there! lol I have a suggestion for you...read what i and flanker have to say about Greece and you might learn something...perhaps you can save further cursing for your subsequent intellectual engagements.


a. Antiamericanism. Well, Greeks don't hate Americans. They don't hate the people that is. Most Greeks however have a big dislike over the US policy over the years from which they suffered a lot. Especially after 1967. Some examples are the US policy regarding the military dictatorship, the policy against Turkish claims over the Aegean, the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and more.

This is exactly what anti-Americanism in Greece is like. Of course there is a small minority who extends their dislike of the US policy to the people but they are not to be taken into account. The fact the greeks dont like US policy is totally justified for all the reasons you mentioned, flank. Actually, there is a number of reliable sources claiming that George Papadopoulos, if not a CIA 'agent', was certainly cooperating, something that indirectly contributed to the creation of the notorious November 17th, and its first strike on the CIA chief in Athens, back in 1975 (if i am not mistaken). Between Turkey and Greece, USA clearly favoured Turkey for their own purposes, something that i perfectly understand. They shouldnt expect, though, Greeks to approve their foreign policy.



b.Ocalan. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
I totally disagree...you could say that for some special cases but definitely not for, say, OBL. I dont see anyone liberated by his terrorist strikes. Its a phrase that i would never use universally and dont tell me that the thousands of victims in the World Trade center liberated one single Arab. Just the opposite...


Kurds, although the fact that they engaged in terrorist activities over the years, are fighting for their freedom, their human and political rights in a country that has no respect for them.

They certainly did engage in terrorists activities but lets pause for a moment and think about the way they are forced to live. Somewhere between Eastern Turkey and Northern Iraq, having to confront with the 'cleansing' Turkish operations on one side and the Iraqi, even chemical warfare, on the other side. (Ellaborating on Chemical Ali is futile).
So how can they react? Only by terrorism and that took place only within turkish or Iraqi borders by PKK and Ocalan. I have no info about PKK engaging on international terrorism. Their local struggle though is justified and something i support and i hope to see an officially recognized Kurdish state one day.
The fact that Ocalan was cought in Greek hands, was a unilateral decision of a, half neurotic, half sane, greek military officer, Mr. Naksakis who decided to put Ocalan under his umbrella for reasons i can only speculate about. Although i cannot be sure of the role of EYΠ (greek intelligence agency), the Ocalan story was not part of the greek official policy and believe me that was the last thing the government wanted: to mess with Ocalan. Now as far as for his arrest in Nairobi...how did Turkish agents arrested him...in Kenya...out of Greek hands? :roll: I think part of the big picture is related to 'external' intervention in the Ocalan affair just to provoke Greece and criple its diplomatic maneuvrability. All in all, the fact that Naksakis harboured Ocalan was completely idiotic but it does not reflect the official Greek stance by any means.



cTraidors and helping the Serbs. If you mean Bosnia, I think that you can't find an innocent party in that war, not the Serbs, not the Muslims, not the Croats and not NATO. As for Kossovo, many countries had dissagreements for that war. Greece chose not to bomb Serbia. It was against the war and countries are still intitle to having their own foreign policies and not comply with US. Besides, Serbs are the only Balkan nations that hasn't been in war with Greece and better keep itthat way.

Greece did not directly support the bombings in Servia. It did provide airports and ports as a NATO ally, but the war was condemned by the government all along the way. Its that simple...if US or NATO or you name it, wants to start a war and asks for some kind of Greek support, all Greece can do is to provide it...and that goes to the majority of countries around the world.
Now if we were to choose sides, OF COURSE we would choose the Serbians with whom we have close historical ties and especially during WWII when Serbians and Greeks became notorious for their resistance to the Nazis. At the same time Croatia was becoming a Nazi ally. So the ties are there and they go way further back in time.

Now let me address a bit to Tommy who seems to be reading 1985 newspapers:


1- greeks cn hate evry one they like.

Pardon? :roll:


2-what about human rights in greecE? lot of time, greek policemen, kill by cold blood emigrants, and no one was never condemned by greek courts.
Ethnic minorances have absolutely no human right. This is the conclusion of Strasbourgh.

Let me tell you about human rights in Greece. It is true that, not immigrants, but Albanians have been treated brutally by some of the Greek policemen, and indeed some of them were killed but not without reason. They were killed at the Greek-Albanian borders (a place where i had the honour to serve the Greek army for a while). Incidents have taken place when Albanians try to cross the borders illegally. Some years ago they were mainly smugglers HEAVILY loaded with AK-47s and grenades and other goodies. So what do you expect? Some people will die...either Greek soldiers/border guards or albanian smugglers...if this is your definition of 'cold blooded' murderous violation of human rights then you have to assess things again.
I dont know anything about Greek cops killing any Albanian for no reason. As i said, interrogation have indeed been brutal in some cases but they are not enough to condemn the whole greek nation. So think again before you post such things.
Minorities in Greece? Let me update you on that a little bit. Greece has given jobs to a few hundred thousand albanians and you should respect that as much as i respect the Albanian labour that contributed to the economy during the last decade. Pakistanis? Wonderful hard working people that NEVER caused any problem, as opposed to some of the Albanian 'immigrants' who invaded the country and formed a hard-core Mafia. Not to mention individual crime...African immigrants? Same goes to them...they work, get payed decently and cause no trouble. So ethnic minorities have no human right?
Soon Athens will have an Islamic temple where any muslim can go and freely worship his god. (That would have taken place long ago, only if the orthodox archbishop hadnt been opposing it so much). Shall i remind you that the Greek-muslim minorities are always represented in the Greek parliament, by at least one deputy, in each and every term and under any government? The deputies are of Turkish origin and keep that in mind when you are talking about minorities in Greece. (Violation of human rights? Check out the Greek minorities in Northern Heperus or southern Albania or put it any way you like)



3-the war in yougoslavia, was a result of scouvinism of serbs, and the influence of russia, that want an entry to adriatic sea. Servia is only the serv of russia. these nations could better think to stop the starvation in their countries. greece is k with these mentlity, as one of the most scouvinist countries of the world. in greece, the religion is signed in passport. this is not democracy and civilisation, seems a nasi that put J in the passports. greece helped serbia to violate the embargo, sold weapons to serbia, and greek banks helped millosevic gang. you dream to heritage the Bisanthyne glory, you have only the bysanthinism
4-greek and french officers, traited nato, becaus they sold to servs secret informations, especially about electronic warfare. the nato loses in Kosova were risult of this traity.

I have already spoken about Greece and Serbia. As for the greek ID cards...that has changed and the new ones do not have the religion written on. I havent been following this issue closely and if i am not mistaken is optional. But its either prohibited or optional for someone to declare the religion on the ID.
As for your 'no democracy no civilization' comment i ll quote flanker and say that you are entitled to your own, allow me, heavily biased opinion.
Regarding the 4 greeks and 1 french officer who sold intelligence to the Serbs...any evidence on that? Even if its true we are talking about an individual effort to undermine NATO and not any sort of official governmental decision.

"All Greeks have is byzantium", ghm ghm ok lets say that was a typo in order to save your last drops of 'credibility' around here if there is any left. For me byzantium was the beggining of the significant Greek decay and has nothing to do with the actual Greek glory. The Greek glory goes back centuries before byzantium i.e. the ancient, classical times etc etc. ;)

And one last thing about your comment on terrorism in Greece. If you havent heard, November 17th is history along with all the other minor terrorist groups in Athens (its Athens where terrorism was taking place not the whole Greece).

All in all, what i suggest is that you chill out, start reading newspapers a little bit and try to contribute to this forum by supporting your claims instead of cursing, condemning and generalizing like a blindman.

[Foreigner]

Tom the Hunter

the fact you are traitors, because together with france, helped serbia when NATO was bombing it?

Do you mean when NATO was bombing Serbia and helping the radical muslim group, UÇK, while they were murdering Christian families?

Good thing Greece helped them, when noone wanted to. I also praise Greece for it's military coup in Cyprus a few decades ago, tobad they didn't finish what they started.

Greece , Good country ^Thumbs up^

[Foreigner]

In Greece anti-americanism is also big because Bush is sticking his nose in someone our business. He is trying to get turkey into the EU, while the majority of Europeans and especially Greeces are against it.

[achilles]

He is trying to get turkey into the EU, while the majority of Europeans and especially Greeces are against it

It is true for the rest of Europe but not Greece. Many Greeks favour the entrance of Turkey to the EU club, not out of benevolence but because it will be better for Greece and i agree with that. If turkey manages to enter ( a process that will take many years), this will entail that it has become a democratic country detached from the rule of the generals, and has a developed economy which would mean more exports and investment for Greece. So i strongly believe that Turkey becoming an EU member is good, yet it is far from fullfilling the prerequisites.
The important thing is that the official Greek foreign policy towards Turkey is working in favor of their European route.

[sierraone]

Turkey will never join Europe. It is not a European country, doesn't have a democracy and a very poor economy. I know this is not the right topic for this conversation but just an opportunity to say hi to my Greek friends. I am on 12 hour shifts from thursday so you won't be seeing me much in here .

PS. I am one of the people that are not happy that religion is not on our IDs any more and I never want to see a mosque in Athens. Anyone got an issue with that?

Οσο οι Τουρκοι κατεχουν τις πατριδες μας τοτε:
Τουρκος καλος μονο ο νεκρος.
ICXC NIKA

[Foreigner]

I never want to see a mosque in Athens.

In my country, when you say such words you are called a racist. In my country when you go public with your opinion about mosques you can expect a bunch of maroccans or turks to pay you a visit.

So much for democracy...

I studied ancient greek language and culture at high school and it appealed to me very much. I have much respect for it and I don't want to see modern Greece have the same fate as their ancestors on current turkish soil had....


Is this our future? (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=400655#400655)

[achilles]

Turkey will never join Europe.It is not a European country, doesn't have a democracy and a very poor economy. I know this is not the right topic for this conversation but just an opportunity to say hi to my Greek friends.

Hey buddy where have you been? :D ;) I am going to fully disagree with what you just said. Turkey can be considered, at least in theory, a european country because Constantinople is part of continental Europe (forget the past please) and hence geographically it can claim membership to the EU. It has a very poor but growing economy and indeed is not a democracy but an oligarchic military regime, but things will change if Turkey wants to enter a new era and i am sure it will...and this is the best for Greece. Do you want the generals giving orders to F-16s to violate a couple of times per week our FIR just for fun? No i want a democratic, developed and EDUCATED nation next to Greece...they are still far from it but they can do it and this is the best for everyone.


PS. I am one of the people that are not happy that religion is not on our IDs any more and I never want to see a mosque in Athens. Anyone got an issue with that?

I am quite happy about that. Why should it be written on the ID? Why shaould we identify people by their religion? All that is needed is a name and some stupid number. If you feel proud about being a christian you can well demonstrate it by other ways. The best for me would be, as always, TO HAVE AN OPTION about that. Religion is something very personal and intimate and perhaps Greek Catholics or Greek muslims (and dont tell me they are not Greeks) dont want their religion to be a piece of public information. I understand and respect that. If on the other hand you like that go ahead and stamp it on your ID i am perfectly fine with that also.
I would glad to see a mosque in Athens because that would be the greatest demonstration of a nation with great tradition and historical diversity that can embrace every voice and opinion that is settled in its soil. There are muslims working hard there trying to make a living, why shouldnt they have their own place to worship their god?
And to be a bit romantic...this is more in accordance with the ancient FREE Greek spirit as opposed to the more, say...dogmatic, christian spirit...
Democracy was found in Greece and what you say is not in accordance with that. Let people free to their own beliefs ;)



Οσο οι Τουρκοι κατεχουν τις πατριδες μας τοτε:
Τουρκος καλος μονο ο νεκρος.
ICXC NIKA

Συμφωνοι αλλα αυτα ειναι παρελθον και το Τουρκος καλος μονο νεκρος ειναι καθαρα Τουρκικη νοοτροπια...Ελα ρε φιλε, βαλε νερο στο κρασι και δειξε ανωτεροτητα στους βαρβαρους ;)



I am on 12 hour shifts from thursday so you won't be seeing me much in here .

I wish you all the best bud, and keep the place safe! ;)

[Foreigner]

??????? ????? ???? ? ??????.

Turkos kalos mono o nekros

What does it mean?

[achilles]

Thats classified info....if i tell you i must have your head ;)

[achilles]

ΡΕ ΠΑΛΙΟΚΟΥΦΑΛΑ ΣΙΕΡΑ1...ΤΕΤΟΙΑ ΛΕΣ ΚΑΙ ΜΑΣ ΕΚΘΕΤΕΙΣ ΣΤΟΥΣ ΑΜΕΡΙΚΛΑΝΟΥΣ! :lol:

[Foreigner]

?? ???????????? ?????1...?????? ??? ??? ??? ???????? ????? ????????????! :lol:

Re Paliokogfala siera tetoia les kai mas ekteteis estogs amerikaanogs

Did I have the letters right?

Might aswell tell what you are writing... Something about americans?

[achilles]

Yes i was responding to Sierra telling him that i disagree with his specific phrase written in Greek.

The thing i wrote roughly means that...by saying such things you expose Greeks to the Americans, since the majority around are amercians.

So chill out, nothing offensive there ;)

[sierraone]

Dear Achilles - of which you are so proud of obviously to adopt the nickname - you have to remember that people in the armed forces are very patriotic and you will find strong nationalist feelings among the carreer officers/nco's. We always needed these to survive as a nation and we are still not safe as you know. The neighbourhood here in the Southeast corner of Europe is getting rougher than more civilised. Ethnic tensions are running high not in Greece so much but more in the rest of the Balkans. There is an 'awakening' of Islamic feeling and fundamentalism all over the world and even the moderate and peaceloving muslims that are happy to just go about their daily business can be ****e to this. I am sure you have seen that in England and it is becoming like that all over Europe. France, Germany, Holland everywhere is seeing the almost daily influx of muslims and gradually Europe will be de-Europeanised. They have more children than we have, they have a totally different culture which does not have the FREE spirit of ancient Greece and post-rennaissance Europe. I believe democracy is for people that are willing to comply with it. I don't want Nazi parties, extreme left or religious parties for that matter in a ideal parliament.
Also for the ID issue you have to remember Orthodoxy is very closely entwined with the greek nationhood. It is not like Protestantism or Catholicism where hundreds of different countries follow it. Orthodoxy started from Greece and spread to Eastern Europe. The whole Greek-Serb issue stems from that fact. Also we have found new allies in Russia and smaller countries that see us as the birthplace of their new-found religion in the vacuum communism left. I believe that diluting the religious culture of the country is like diluting the country itself.

PS Foreigner, I was being controversial and 'politically incorrect' in the message I wrote. I don't want to repeat it in English but let's say it is a little saying we have in the army about our neighbours in the east. I am sure they have similar.

[flanker7]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/16642102234117bbfa1f8cc.jpg

Is your avatar your division eblem?

[sierraone]

Yes. I used to be XXII armored brigade (32 EMA). Now I am in Marines. I am a sniper - hence sierra one.

[flanker7]

very nice! Thanks.

[Foreigner]

Hmm... Turkos, Necros...

'The only good turkey is a dead turkey'? Was that what you wrote?


PS Foreigner, I was being controversial and 'politically incorrect' in the message I wrote. I don't want to repeat it in English but let's say it is a little saying we have in the army about our neighbours in the east. I am sure they have similar.

[achilles]

Dear Achilles - of which you are so proud of obviously to adopt the nickname - you have to remember that people in the armed forces are very patriotic and you will find strong nationalist feelings among the carreer officers/nco's. We always needed these to survive as a nation and we are still not safe as you know. The neighbourhood here in the Southeast corner of Europe is getting rougher than more civilised. Ethnic tensions are running high not in Greece so much but more in the rest of the Balkans. There is an 'awakening' of Islamic feeling and fundamentalism all over the world and even the moderate and peaceloving muslims that are happy to just go about their daily business can be ****e to this. I am sure you have seen that in England and it is becoming like that all over Europe. France, Germany, Holland everywhere is seeing the almost daily influx of muslims and gradually Europe will be de-Europeanised. They have more children than we have, they have a totally different culture which does not have the FREE spirit of ancient Greece and post-rennaissance Europe. I believe democracy is for people that are willing to comply with it. I don't want Nazi parties, extreme left or religious parties for that matter in a ideal parliament.
Also for the ID issue you have to remember Orthodoxy is very closely entwined with the greek nationhood. It is not like Protestantism or Catholicism where hundreds of different countries follow it. Orthodoxy started from Greece and spread to Eastern Europe. The whole Greek-Serb issue stems from that fact. Also we have found new allies in Russia and smaller countries that see us as the birthplace of their new-found religion in the vacuum communism left. I believe that diluting the religious culture of the country is like diluting the country itself.

PS Foreigner, I was being controversial and 'politically incorrect' in the message I wrote. I don't want to repeat it in English but let's say it is a little saying we have in the army about our neighbours in the east. I am sure they have similar.

Good post commando! I never forget the partiotism of the Greek troops and i am glad and proud of it and this is what has kept us alive many times.
I see your points and yes its true that muslims are spreading all over. I say adopt them and let do their own thing, up to the point they dont get radical or cause any kind of trouble. There are laws and law-enforcing mechanisms all over Europe to take care of all the rest.
As for the IDs i simply believe that nothing can deprive you or anybody else of your religious identity, irrespective of whether religion is written on your ID or not. For me, its just a superficial matter that came up due to Christodoulos' super-ethnic feelings and 'political ambitions'. IDs will never change the fact that 98% of the Greeks are Christian Orthodox.

Και μη μασας...παλι με χρονια με καιρους παλι δικα μας θα'ναι ;) Achilles speaking...

[achilles]

[quote="Foreigner"]Hmm... Turkos, Necros...

'The only good turkey is a dead turkey'? Was that what you wrote?

A dead barbequed turkey, man ...the best piece of poultry you can have ;)

Dont worry too much about it, its just a half-serious, half-joke saying among the Greek troops...especially SF.

[sierraone]

I say adopt them and let do their own thing, up to the point they dont get radical or cause any kind of trouble. ......IDs will never change the fact that 98% of the Greeks are Christian Orthodox....

Well I think that point has already come. Muslim culture is too different and too strong to absorb. The people of Poland, Czech Republic and Hungary are easier to be absord into Europe. They share European histoy, culture and yes they are Christian and white for whatever that is worth. Let's be honest.
ID won't change the 98%. Immigrants will and I for one don't want that.


Και μη μασας...παλι με χρονια με καιρους παλι δικα μας θα'ναι ;) Achilles speaking... :D That's better!..

[sierraone]

by the way Achilles, I am glad to see sensible civilised posts. I have fallen out with most of the greek forums on politics. Too many lefties!

Foreigner you are getting close. I guess you can find some greek roots in english words eh?

[achilles]

by the way Achilles, I am glad to see sensible civilised posts. I have fallen out with most of the greek forums on politics. Too many lefties!

Foreigner you are getting close. I guess you can find some greek roots in english words eh?

Thats why i dont even bother with those forums...there is no way you can get anywhere. The lefties by the way are becoming a bit radical and even more stuck to their views arent they? Especially now that they are not running the place....speaking about the 'green' lefties at least ;)

[achilles]

and some righties think that the Olympic games is a governmental achievement...within 5 months. This Costakis must be one hell of a guy ;)

i am with ND. I like most of the ministers and i think they are doing 'not-bad-at-all' so far...i am standing by to see what happens after the games.

[sierraone]

There are all sorts. As you know greeks always exaggerate, use slogans and get hot-headed and don't listen to reason :D They have called me fasista, nazi, evraie (?), praktora tis CIA, paliokaravana monima and all the kosmitika epitheta. Never debate my arguments though. Kollimenoi like anything you like. Remnants of the civil war it all is my friend achillea. The blues and the reds. Panta. They can't grow out of it.

[sierraone]

I am hoping with ND we will become more 'european' and as always we hope for less 'rousfeti' and more axiokratia. Less chaos and more 'german' style organisation. Also I hope in the army there will be less 'mi peirazete ta paidia' klp.

[gbos]

What was the topic again? p-)

Sniper watch out!!! Jimmy Jump is actually in Athens. They had an interview with him on TV. He said he will not try to enter the field but I don’t believe him. Try NOT to shoot him.

[sierraone]

HAHA poor jimmyjump. Elixe i karriera tou. I won't be at fault either if he doesn't follow the security advice. I will just make sure there is no-one behind him. The rounds they have given us are police rounds that expand in the body and don't go through and injure/kill anyone behind him. Very messy though!

[Tom The Hunter]

Tom the Hunter

the fact you are traitors, because together with france, helped serbia when NATO was bombing it?

Do you mean when NATO was bombing Serbia and helping the radical muslim group, UÇK, while they were murdering Christian families?

Good thing Greece helped them, when noone wanted to. I also praise Greece for it's military coup in Cyprus a few decades ago, tobad they didn't finish what they started.

Greece , Good country ^Thumbs up^

pERHAPS MIKONOS IS BETTER! :P
Are you sure that UCK is a radical muslim organization?

[achilles]

There are all sorts. As you know greeks always exaggerate, use slogans and get hot-headed and don't listen to reason :D They have called me fasista, nazi, evraie (?), praktora tis CIA, paliokaravana monima and all the kosmitika epitheta. Never debate my arguments though. Kollimenoi like anything you like. Remnants of the civil war it all is my friend achillea. The blues and the reds. Panta. They can't grow out of it.

So i suppose you have a slight right-ish inclination...just to make myself clear...when i say i am with ND i have nothing to do with the party or what is broadly called in Greece 'party-dogs' so i do not fall into this idiotic green-blue-red or choose-any-color-you-like 'debate'. I like ND because i was so fed up with PASOK all these years and i think after a 20 year reign its time for democracy to speak. See something different vre aderfe! If they show no good political signs soon i ll be glad to vote for...vergi (leme tora) next time.

Yes its really sad to see very young generations to fall in this pointless blinding red-blue trip...instead of argyuing about politics they are whinning about colours. Reminds me of the Kerry vs Bush debate on who was the bravest during their military service...well...**** that and look at who is more willing and able to do something better for the country or any other country (sorry i am getting emotional here ;) )

Funny all those names you ve been called :lol: Φανταζομαι σε ειπανε ναζι και φασιστα για τις αποψεις σου περι ξενων κλπ. Οσο εχεις σωστα επιχειρηματα γραφτους κανονικα και αστους να φωναζουνε. I was so fed up by that blockheadness back home myself.

[Tom The Hunter]

Well Tommy i hit a nerve there! lol I have a suggestion for you...read what i and flanker have to say about Greece and you might learn something...perhaps you can save further cursing for your subsequent intellectual engagements.


a. Antiamericanism. Well, Greeks don't hate Americans. They don't hate the people that is. Most Greeks however have a big dislike over the US policy over the years from which they suffered a lot. Especially after 1967. Some examples are the US policy regarding the military dictatorship, the policy against Turkish claims over the Aegean, the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and more.

This is exactly what anti-Americanism in Greece is like. Of course there is a small minority who extends their dislike of the US policy to the people but they are not to be taken into account. The fact the greeks dont like US policy is totally justified for all the reasons you mentioned, flank. Actually, there is a number of reliable sources claiming that George Papadopoulos, if not a CIA 'agent', was certainly cooperating, something that indirectly contributed to the creation of the notorious November 17th, and its first strike on the CIA chief in Athens, back in 1975 (if i am not mistaken). Between Turkey and Greece, USA clearly favoured Turkey for their own purposes, something that i perfectly understand. They shouldnt expect, though, Greeks to approve their foreign policy.



b.Ocalan. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
I totally disagree...you could say that for some special cases but definitely not for, say, OBL. I dont see anyone liberated by his terrorist strikes. Its a phrase that i would never use universally and dont tell me that the thousands of victims in the World Trade center liberated one single Arab. Just the opposite...


Kurds, although the fact that they engaged in terrorist activities over the years, are fighting for their freedom, their human and political rights in a country that has no respect for them.

They certainly did engage in terrorists activities but lets pause for a moment and think about the way they are forced to live. Somewhere between Eastern Turkey and Northern Iraq, having to confront with the 'cleansing' Turkish operations on one side and the Iraqi, even chemical warfare, on the other side. (Ellaborating on Chemical Ali is futile).
So how can they react? Only by terrorism and that took place only within turkish or Iraqi borders by PKK and Ocalan. I have no info about PKK engaging on international terrorism. Their local struggle though is justified and something i support and i hope to see an officially recognized Kurdish state one day.
The fact that Ocalan was cought in Greek hands, was a unilateral decision of a, half neurotic, half sane, greek military officer, Mr. Naksakis who decided to put Ocalan under his umbrella for reasons i can only speculate about. Although i cannot be sure of the role of EYΠ (greek intelligence agency), the Ocalan story was not part of the greek official policy and believe me that was the last thing the government wanted: to mess with Ocalan. Now as far as for his arrest in Nairobi...how did Turkish agents arrested him...in Kenya...out of Greek hands? :roll: I think part of the big picture is related to 'external' intervention in the Ocalan affair just to provoke Greece and criple its diplomatic maneuvrability. All in all, the fact that Naksakis harboured Ocalan was completely idiotic but it does not reflect the official Greek stance by any means.



cTraidors and helping the Serbs. If you mean Bosnia, I think that you can't find an innocent party in that war, not the Serbs, not the Muslims, not the Croats and not NATO. As for Kossovo, many countries had dissagreements for that war. Greece chose not to bomb Serbia. It was against the war and countries are still intitle to having their own foreign policies and not comply with US. Besides, Serbs are the only Balkan nations that hasn't been in war with Greece and better keep itthat way.

Greece did not directly support the bombings in Servia. It did provide airports and ports as a NATO ally, but the war was condemned by the government all along the way. Its that simple...if US or NATO or you name it, wants to start a war and asks for some kind of Greek support, all Greece can do is to provide it...and that goes to the majority of countries around the world.
Now if we were to choose sides, OF COURSE we would choose the Serbians with whom we have close historical ties and especially during WWII when Serbians and Greeks became notorious for their resistance to the Nazis. At the same time Croatia was becoming a Nazi ally. So the ties are there and they go way further back in time.


greece and yugoslavia were allies og germany at 1940. and they together with italian minister Ciano, made programs to share all the balcan, the old ambicion of greeks and serbs. stayng to Lidell-Hart, the worst erroro of mussolini was attacking greece, a fashist country.
Now let me address a bit to Tommy who seems to be reading 1985 newspapers:


1- greeks cn hate evry one they like.

Pardon? :roll:


2-what about human rights in greecE? lot of time, greek policemen, kill by cold blood emigrants, and no one was never condemned by greek courts.
Ethnic minorances have absolutely no human right. This is the conclusion of Strasbourgh.

Let me tell you about human rights in Greece. It is true that, not immigrants, but Albanians have been treated brutally by some of the Greek policemen, and indeed some of them were killed but not without reason. They were killed at the Greek-Albanian borders (a place where i had the honour to serve the Greek army for a while). Incidents have taken place when Albanians try to cross the borders illegally. Some years ago they were mainly smugglers HEAVILY loaded with AK-47s and grenades and other goodies. So what do you expect? Some people will die...either Greek soldiers/border guards or albanian smugglers...if this is your definition of 'cold blooded' murderous violation of human rights then you have to assess things again.
I dont know anything about Greek cops killing any Albanian for no reason. As i said, interrogation have indeed been brutal in some cases but they are not enough to condemn the whole greek nation. So think again before you post such things.
Minorities in Greece? Let me update you on that a little bit. Greece has given jobs to a few hundred thousand albanians and you should respect that as much as i respect the Albanian labour that contributed to the economy during the last decade. Pakistanis? Wonderful hard working people that NEVER caused any problem, as opposed to some of the Albanian 'immigrants' who invaded the country and formed a hard-core Mafia. Not to mention individual crime...African immigrants? Same goes to them...they work, get payed decently and cause no trouble. So ethnic minorities have no human right?
Soon Athens will have an Islamic temple where any muslim can go and freely worship his god. (That would have taken place long ago, only if the orthodox archbishop hadnt been opposing it so much). Shall i remind you that the Greek-muslim minorities are always represented in the Greek parliament, by at least one deputy, in each and every term and under any government? The deputies are of Turkish origin and keep that in mind when you are talking about minorities in Greece. (Violation of human rights? Check out the Greek minorities in Northern Heperus or southern Albania or put it any way you like)

greek minorities in albania have thir schools, their party and their ministers in the government!
each year when regular albanians, turn from greece to albania for holidays, greek police try every time to stop them. for example sayng that pc of customs have problems. so they have to wait two or three days to pass the border. last year a pregnant was giving birth to her children. the greek policeman said to her go and **** your bastard to your country. she loosed the child. a good patriot never defends bad attitudes of his country. beleive me that greek policemen kill lot of INNOCENT albanians!
the first drug in albania was brought from greek mafia, very very strong mafia! i hope you have enough intelligence and not judge a country by its mafia. because, i could create a very bad oppinion for greece!


3-the war in yougoslavia, was a result of scouvinism of serbs, and the influence of russia, that want an entry to adriatic sea. Servia is only the serv of russia. these nations could better think to stop the starvation in their countries. greece is k with these mentlity, as one of the most scouvinist countries of the world. in greece, the religion is signed in passport. this is not democracy and civilisation, seems a nasi that put J in the passports. greece helped serbia to violate the embargo, sold weapons to serbia, and greek banks helped millosevic gang. you dream to heritage the Bisanthyne glory, you have only the bysanthinism
4-greek and french officers, traited nato, becaus they sold to servs secret informations, especially about electronic warfare. the nato loses in Kosova were risult of this traity.

I have already spoken about Greece and Serbia. As for the greek ID cards...that has changed and the new ones do not have the religion written on. I havent been following this issue closely and if i am not mistaken is optional. But its either prohibited or optional for someone to declare the religion on the ID.
As for your 'no democracy no civilization' comment i ll quote flanker and say that you are entitled to your own, allow me, heavily biased opinion.
Regarding the 4 greeks and 1 french officer who sold intelligence to the Serbs...any evidence on that? Even if its true we are talking about an individual effort to undermine NATO and not any sort of official governmental decision.

i never speak in vain!

"All Greeks have is byzantium", ghm ghm ok lets say that was a typo in order to save your last drops of 'credibility' around here if there is any left. For me byzantium was the beggining of the significant Greek decay and has nothing to do with the actual Greek glory. The Greek glory goes back centuries before byzantium i.e. the ancient, classical times etc etc. ;)

And one last thing about your comment on terrorism in Greece. If you havent heard, November 17th is history along with all the other minor terrorist groups in Athens (its Athens where terrorism was taking place not the whole Greece).

All in all, what i suggest is that you chill out, start reading newspapers a little bit and try to contribute to this forum by supporting your claims instead of cursing, condemning and generalizing like a blindman.

[achilles]

greece and yugoslavia were allies og germany at 1940. and they together with italian minister Ciano, made programs to share all the balcan, the old ambicion of greeks and serbs. stayng to Lidell-Hart, the worst erroro of mussolini was attacking greece, a fashist country

Totally untrue, and i really dont know where you see or hear all this. This is history-raping.Ok...

Greece and Yugoslavia were NOT allies with Germany in 1940. The regime was fascist indeed, under the rule of dictator Ioannis Metaxas, who was visited by Italian representatives asking for Greece to surrender to the axis. Metaxas said the historical NO and Italians declared war. Wrong move...their asses were kicked badly bearing in mind that they had airforce and heavy artillery and we were fighting with slingshots. Later on the best killing machine payed us a visit and it was time for our asses to be kicked...although it wasnt easy...we delayed the Nazi troops long enough for the Russian winter to come...one of the reasons they lost the battle of Stalingrad. Anyhow, thats the long story made short and the general plan, by the way, was for Germany, Italy and Japan to share the world. I know nothing of any conspiracies from the part of Greece to split the Balcans or whatever.

[Foreigner]

greece and yugoslavia were allies og germany at 1940. and they together with italian minister Ciano, made programs to share all the balcan, the old ambicion of greeks and serbs. stayng to Lidell-Hart, the worst erroro of mussolini was attacking greece, a fashist country

Totally untrue, and i really dont know where you see or hear all this. This is history-raping.Ok...

Greece and Yugoslavia were NOT allies with Germany in 1940. The regime was fascist indeed, under the rule of dictator Ioannis Metaxas, who was visited by Italian representatives asking for Greece to surrender to the axis. Metaxas said the historical NO and Italians declared war. Wrong move...their asses were kicked badly bearing in mind that they had airforce and heavy artillery and we were fighting with slingshots. Later on the best killing machine payed us a visit and it was time for our asses to be kicked...although it wasnt easy...we delayed the Nazi troops long enough for the Russian winter to come...one of the reasons they lost the battle of Stalingrad. Anyhow, thats the long story made short and the general plan, by the way, was for Germany, Italy and Japan to share the world. I know nothing of any conspiracies from the part of Greece to split the Balcans or whatever.

And don't forget the muslim collaborators from the balkans (and current chechnya) who betrayed us in our fight against the nazi's.

Sierra1: Well, like I said I did study some greek at school. Pity I didn't take it too serious then...

It's so funny to see the resemblances between our countries conserning muslims. The socialists are only good at making rude comments and WOII comparisons when it comes down to debating about muslims.

Pim Fortuyn is the prime example of it. But one of the greens murdered him already... Such a shame..

Consider yourself lucky that you only have 1% of muslim population. Four of our major cities already consist for 1/3 out of muslims. And the muslims make up 10% out of the total population.

[Tom The Hunter]

greece and yugoslavia were allies og germany at 1940. and they together with italian minister Ciano, made programs to share all the balcan, the old ambicion of greeks and serbs. stayng to Lidell-Hart, the worst erroro of mussolini was attacking greece, a fashist country

Totally untrue, and i really dont know where you see or hear all this. This is history-raping.Ok...

Greece and Yugoslavia were NOT allies with Germany in 1940. The regime was fascist indeed, under the rule of dictator Ioannis Metaxas, who was visited by Italian representatives asking for Greece to surrender to the axis. Metaxas said the historical NO and Italians declared war. Wrong move...their asses were kicked badly bearing in mind that they had airforce and heavy artillery and we were fighting with slingshots. Later on the best killing machine payed us a visit and it was time for our asses to be kicked...although it wasnt easy...we delayed the Nazi troops long enough for the Russian winter to come...one of the reasons they lost the battle of Stalingrad. Anyhow, thats the long story made short and the general plan, by the way, was for Germany, Italy and Japan to share the world. I know nothing of any conspiracies from the part of Greece to split the Balcans or whatever.


read the Ciano's diary!

[flanker7]

Fact remains that Greece achived the first victories against the axis and that the Greek people fought with the outmost bravery forcing Hitler to say that Historical justice forces me to admit that of all the nations we have fought the Greek soldier has fought with the outmost bravery and self denial, or something like that, and an English guy, I don't remember who, to say From now on we shall not say that the Greeks fight as heroes but rather say that heroes fight as Greeks.

[sierraone]

and an English guy, I don't remember who, to say From now on we shall not say that the Greeks fight as heroes but rather say that heroes fight as Greeks.

It was Churchill :lol:

[flanker7]

and an English guy, I don't remember who, to say From now on we shall not say that the Greeks fight as heroes but rather say that heroes fight as Greeks.

It was Churchill :lol:

Thought so but wasn't sure. Thanks.

[flanker7]

and an English guy, I don't remember who, to say From now on we shall not say that the Greeks fight as heroes but rather say that heroes fight as Greeks.

It was Churchill :lol:

Thought so but wasn't sure. Thanks.

[Tom The Hunter]

Fact remains that Greece achived the first victories against the axis and that the Greek people fought with the outmost bravery forcing Hitler to say that Historical justice forces me to admit that of all the nations we have fought the Greek soldier has fought with the outmost bravery and self denial, or something like that, and an English guy, I don't remember who, to say From now on we shall not say that the Greeks fight as heroes but rather say that heroes fight as Greeks.

I is true. And greeks really fought as lions.

[Tom The Hunter]

greece and yugoslavia were allies og germany at 1940. and they together with italian minister Ciano, made programs to share all the balcan, the old ambicion of greeks and serbs. stayng to Lidell-Hart, the worst erroro of mussolini was attacking greece, a fashist country

Totally untrue, and i really dont know where you see or hear all this. This is history-raping.Ok...

Greece and Yugoslavia were NOT allies with Germany in 1940. The regime was fascist indeed, under the rule of dictator Ioannis Metaxas, who was visited by Italian representatives asking for Greece to surrender to the axis. Metaxas said the historical NO and Italians declared war. Wrong move...their asses were kicked badly bearing in mind that they had airforce and heavy artillery and we were fighting with slingshots. Later on the best killing machine payed us a visit and it was time for our asses to be kicked...although it wasnt easy...we delayed the Nazi troops long enough for the Russian winter to come...one of the reasons they lost the battle of Stalingrad. Anyhow, thats the long story made short and the general plan, by the way, was for Germany, Italy and Japan to share the world. I know nothing of any conspiracies from the part of Greece to split the Balcans or whatever.

And don't forget the muslim collaborators from the balkans (and current chechnya) who betrayed us in our fight against the nazi's.
Sierra1: Well, like I said I did study some greek at school. Pity I didn't take it too serious then...

It's so funny to see the resemblances between our countries conserning muslims. The socialists are only good at making rude comments and WOII comparisons when it comes down to debating about muslims.

Pim Fortuyn is the prime example of it. But one of the greens murdered him already... Such a shame..

Consider yourself lucky that you only have 1% of muslim population. Four of our major cities already consist for 1/3 out of muslims. And the muslims make up 10% out of the total population.

and don't forget 22 thousand holland ss, and nearly 20 thousand fiamings from belgium, same race same ****!

[Foreigner]

greece and yugoslavia were allies og germany at 1940. and they together with italian minister Ciano, made programs to share all the balcan, the old ambicion of greeks and serbs. stayng to Lidell-Hart, the worst erroro of mussolini was attacking greece, a fashist country

Totally untrue, and i really dont know where you see or hear all this. This is history-raping.Ok...

Greece and Yugoslavia were NOT allies with Germany in 1940. The regime was fascist indeed, under the rule of dictator Ioannis Metaxas, who was visited by Italian representatives asking for Greece to surrender to the axis. Metaxas said the historical NO and Italians declared war. Wrong move...their asses were kicked badly bearing in mind that they had airforce and heavy artillery and we were fighting with slingshots. Later on the best killing machine payed us a visit and it was time for our asses to be kicked...although it wasnt easy...we delayed the Nazi troops long enough for the Russian winter to come...one of the reasons they lost the battle of Stalingrad. Anyhow, thats the long story made short and the general plan, by the way, was for Germany, Italy and Japan to share the world. I know nothing of any conspiracies from the part of Greece to split the Balcans or whatever.

And don't forget the muslim collaborators from the balkans (and current chechnya) who betrayed us in our fight against the nazi's.
Sierra1: Well, like I said I did study some greek at school. Pity I didn't take it too serious then...

It's so funny to see the resemblances between our countries conserning muslims. The socialists are only good at making rude comments and WOII comparisons when it comes down to debating about muslims.

Pim Fortuyn is the prime example of it. But one of the greens murdered him already... Such a shame..

Consider yourself lucky that you only have 1% of muslim population. Four of our major cities already consist for 1/3 out of muslims. And the muslims make up 10% out of the total population.

and don't forget 22 thousand holland ss, and nearly 20 thousand fiamings from belgium, same race same ****!

And they all deserve the deathpenalty. Just like you.