David Lehmann
08-08-2004, 09:13 PM
Summary about the French snipers from WW1 to today
During WW1 the French sharpshooters and snipers used scoped Lebel Mle1886/93 and Berthier Mle1916 rifles as well as semi-automatic R.S.C. (Ribeyrolle Sutter Chauchat) Mle1917/1918 rifles with iron sights.
In 1939 the project of a semi-automatic scoped rifle was in maturation and awaited for 1941 (the MAS Mle1940) and the WW1 rifles were still in service.
Concerning the scopes :
It seems that among the first scopes some derivated from the 3x sight used on the 37mm TR Mle1916 (TR = tir rapide = rapid fire) infantry gun, with a reticule, a mounting system adapted to the rifles.
During WW1 the French snipers used a few Winchester A5 scopes (probably very few) and several civilian "lunette viseur Mignon" sights (2.5x magnification) produced by the famous MAS (manufacture d'armes et de cycles de Saint Etienne).
The Puteaux workshop developped then 2 generations of scopes : APX16/17 and APX21 (APX = ateliers de Puteaux), initially for the Lebel Mle1886/93, Berthier Mle1907/15 and Berthier Mle1916 rifles.
APX16
length : 240mm
magnification : 3x
real field : 130mm
range dial : up to 800m
reticule : crosshair (+) (the vertical line is fixed and the horizontal line is depending from the range dial)
marking : "A.PX16" followed by the number of the rifle to which the scope is assigned
APX17
length : 280mm
magnification : 3x
real field : 130mm
range dial : up to 800m
reticule : crosshair (+) (the vertical line is fixed and the horizontal line is depending from the range dial)
marking : "A.PX17" followed by the number of the rifle to which the scope is assigned
the mounting system is slightly different than for the previous APX16 scope.
In 1921 the APX16 and APX17 scopes are replaced by the APX21 scope.
APX21
length : 280mm
magnification : 3x
real field : 165mm
range dial : up to 1200m
reticule : V reticule (V)
marking : "A.PX21" followed by the number of the rifle to which the scope is assigned
The most common sniper rifle in both WW1 and 1939/1940 battles is the famous Lebel Mle1886/93 rifle.
Characteristics of the Lebel Mle1886/93 :
Type : bolt action rifle
Caliber : 8x50R mm
Length : 1307mm (1820mm with bayonet)
Weight (empty) : 4.18 kg
Weight (with 8 cartridges) : 4.415 kg
Barrel length : 800 mm
Capacity: 8 cartridges in a tubular magazine + 1 loaded
V° : 701 m/s (Mle1886D cartridge)
Rate of fire : 13-14 rpm (trials at the Mont Valérien)
Sights : iron sights dialing from 250m to 2400m.
The cartridge usually used is the Mle1886D (created by the captain - later squadron commander - Désaleux) and the Mle1886D a.m. (amorçage modifié = modified primer) with a V° of 701 m/s. The armor piercing cartridge "cartouche de 8mm à belle perforante (P)" can also be used. It has a V° of 950 m/s and a penetration capacity of 6mm at 400m, thus able to penetrate a helmet or a small protection.
The rifles issued to the snipers had the special mount for the scope and specially selected rifles with higher level of engineering in order to increase the accuracy. Each rifle was adjusted and fitted with a dedicated scope which had the number of the rifle marked on it.
The semi-automatic R.S.C. Mle1917/1918 rifle was used during WW1 and during the Rif war and several were still used in France in 1939/1940 and issued to the best sharpshooters but probably never to snipers (with a scope). This rifle like the MAS Mle1936 were probably never equipped with a scope but it is very likely that various trials has been led with the MAS36 rifle. In May-June 1940 there were also trials with the experimental MAS40 rifle (semi-automatic, 7.5x54 mm, 5 rounds clips, 10 rounds magazine or an other version with a 25 rounds magazine) and a new prismatic APX M686 scope but this scope proved to be inferior to the older APX21.
The French snipers seem to have been issued at the battalion level (1 for about 800 men then) in 1939/1940 and several served also in the Corps Francs. In all the cased these kind of rifles were never issued to units smaller than a platoon.
The Free French (1941-1943) used probably mostly British SMLE .303 n°3 MkI(T) and .303 n°4 MkI(T) rifles, at least for the French SAS and commando-marines who operated with the British forces. From 1943 on (French Army) the main sniper rifle became the Springfield 1903A4 (2.5x M73B scope). A few civilian Lyman Alaskan scopes should have been used and designated M73. Redfield delivered about 2000 mountings for them but Lyman never delivered the scopes. The common scope found on the Springfield 1903A4 is therefore the civilian Weaver 330C (marked '330C') but the majority of them had the military markings (M73B1). About 36,000 M73B1 scopes have been delivered.
Concerning the USMC, during WW1 the marines used the Springfield 1903A1 with 5x Lyman and Winchester A5 scopes. During WW2 and later they mostly used Springfield 1903A1 rifles with the 8x Unertl scope and Springfield 1903A4 with the same scopes than the US Army (M73B1).
During late WW2 and after WW2 the Springfield 1903A4 mounted also the scopes used on the Garand M1C and M1D rifles (M81, M82 and M84). Several Springfield 1903A4 were also equipped with a French scope designated M73B2 in the US army, it had the 'OPL France' markings (OPL = Optique de Précision de Levallois). This factory, created in 1923, produced later the APX L806-1 (Mle1953), L806-2 and L806-3 mounted on the MAS49, MAS49/56 and later FRF-1 and FRF-2 sniper rifles.
The Garand M1C/M1D sniper rifle (2.5x M81/M82 scopes, replaced in April 1945 by the M84) is really used only in 1945 and not on the European theater of operations. It is often equipped with a conical M2 flash hider available at the end of 1944 and replaced in January 1953 by the T37 flash hider.
At the beginning of the Indochina war, the French troops used various sniper rifles : Springfield 1903A4, M1D Garand, a few SMLE and it seems that a significant number of scoped Gewehr 43 were also used. The MAS49 with APX L806 (3.85x magnification) becomes the new sniper rifle in 1953.
In Algeria the MAS49 is still in use, followed by the MAS49/56 with the APX L806 Mle1953 scope. Several night scope (IR) were used on USM1/2 carbines and MAS49/56 rifles.
In 1967/1970 the FRF-1, first French rifle totally dedicated to sniping, is introduced and replaces slowly all the other sniper rifles. The caliber is still 7.5x54mm like in the MAS36, MAS40, MAS44, MAS49 and MAS49/56 and the scope is still the APX L806 (3.85x magnification). At its arrival the FRF-1 won all the military competitions but the USA argued that it was a sporting rifle instead of a military rifle.
In 1986, the FRF-1 is modified to fire the 7.62x51mm (.308 NATO) and the bipod is also slightly modified. The new rifle is called FRF-2 but it is still equipped with the APX L806 scope whose magnification is now too limited. During the 90's the infantry units of the French army adopted the Scrome J8 (8x magnification) but all the other arms of the French army conserved the APX L806. The French Navy and Air Force adopted a modified rifle called FRG-2 and equipped with a Schmidt & Bender (6x magnification) scope.
The French PGM Hécate II heavy sniping rifle has nowadays been adopted by the French army under the name FR12.7 (12.7x99mm). This rifle is equipped with a Scrome J10 (10x magnification) scope.
The replacement for the FRF-2 could be chosen among these candidates :
- PGM MiniHécate (bolt action, 7.62x51mm)
- PGM .338 (bolt action, .338 Lapua Magnum)
- Accuracy International AW L96A1 (bolt action, 7.62x51mm)
- H&K PSG1 (semi-automatic, 7.62x51mm)
- or simply a couple involving the FR12.7 + and assault rifle equipped with a scope (AR15 series or FAMAS equipped with a 4x Scrome J4 scope)
Concerning the scopes, a future replacement to the APX L806 could be the Nightforce NXS (3.5-15x) scope.
Notes : the English word sniper covers today two designations in French
● "tireurs de précision" (TP)
This term designate usually soldiers armed with 7.62x51mm (.308) rifles, often the FRF-2, who are integrated in combat squads. Their task is to cover the squad during its progression and to spot/recon the enemy positions. They are able of engaging targets at 600-800m while the assault rifles in .223 (even with a scope) have a range limited to 300m.
● "tireurs d'élite" (TE)
This term comes from the word "vélite" which was given to particularly outstanding regiments. The TE operates usually in a group of 3 men : one gunner, one man with observation equipments and one man with an assault rifle protecting the team. The TE operates more often with 12.7x99mm rifles and are able to engage targets at about 1800m.
------------------
Some photos :
Lebel Mle1886/93 (standard version) :
http://www.secondeguerre.net/Armes/lebelmle1886m93.jpg
MAS 49 :
http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/mas49.jpg
MAS 49/56 :
http://www.moneypit.net/~bhinton/French_MAS/MAS_49.56w.scopeNS.jpg
FRF-2 (with OB-50C scope on the first photo) :
http://www.kepi.cncplusplus.com/Gabon/Sharpshooting/Sharpshooting_01_w.jpg
http://www.kepi.cncplusplus.com/images/Snipers/Misc/Misc_03.jpg
FRG-2 :
http://www.moneypit.net/~bhinton/French_MAS/FR_G2_7.62N_Left.jpg
Hecate II :
http://www.passpass.net/web/pgm/imgs/hecate2/hecate2.jpg
http://www.snipercountry.com/photogallery/French_50_Hécate_II_01.JPG
http://netdefense2.free.fr/images/dossier/cote-ivoire/ci5.jpg
http://le.cos.free.fr/photo/snipers/sniper546525.jpg
http://le.cos.free.fr/photo/snipers/sniper5746.jpg
Hecate II and FRF-2 :
http://www.bim27.terre.defense.gouv.fr/photo/max/16085451829939201.jpg
FAMAS with scope :
http://www.kepi.cncplusplus.com/images/Snipers/Misc/Misc_11.jpg
Best regards,
David
During WW1 the French sharpshooters and snipers used scoped Lebel Mle1886/93 and Berthier Mle1916 rifles as well as semi-automatic R.S.C. (Ribeyrolle Sutter Chauchat) Mle1917/1918 rifles with iron sights.
In 1939 the project of a semi-automatic scoped rifle was in maturation and awaited for 1941 (the MAS Mle1940) and the WW1 rifles were still in service.
Concerning the scopes :
It seems that among the first scopes some derivated from the 3x sight used on the 37mm TR Mle1916 (TR = tir rapide = rapid fire) infantry gun, with a reticule, a mounting system adapted to the rifles.
During WW1 the French snipers used a few Winchester A5 scopes (probably very few) and several civilian "lunette viseur Mignon" sights (2.5x magnification) produced by the famous MAS (manufacture d'armes et de cycles de Saint Etienne).
The Puteaux workshop developped then 2 generations of scopes : APX16/17 and APX21 (APX = ateliers de Puteaux), initially for the Lebel Mle1886/93, Berthier Mle1907/15 and Berthier Mle1916 rifles.
APX16
length : 240mm
magnification : 3x
real field : 130mm
range dial : up to 800m
reticule : crosshair (+) (the vertical line is fixed and the horizontal line is depending from the range dial)
marking : "A.PX16" followed by the number of the rifle to which the scope is assigned
APX17
length : 280mm
magnification : 3x
real field : 130mm
range dial : up to 800m
reticule : crosshair (+) (the vertical line is fixed and the horizontal line is depending from the range dial)
marking : "A.PX17" followed by the number of the rifle to which the scope is assigned
the mounting system is slightly different than for the previous APX16 scope.
In 1921 the APX16 and APX17 scopes are replaced by the APX21 scope.
APX21
length : 280mm
magnification : 3x
real field : 165mm
range dial : up to 1200m
reticule : V reticule (V)
marking : "A.PX21" followed by the number of the rifle to which the scope is assigned
The most common sniper rifle in both WW1 and 1939/1940 battles is the famous Lebel Mle1886/93 rifle.
Characteristics of the Lebel Mle1886/93 :
Type : bolt action rifle
Caliber : 8x50R mm
Length : 1307mm (1820mm with bayonet)
Weight (empty) : 4.18 kg
Weight (with 8 cartridges) : 4.415 kg
Barrel length : 800 mm
Capacity: 8 cartridges in a tubular magazine + 1 loaded
V° : 701 m/s (Mle1886D cartridge)
Rate of fire : 13-14 rpm (trials at the Mont Valérien)
Sights : iron sights dialing from 250m to 2400m.
The cartridge usually used is the Mle1886D (created by the captain - later squadron commander - Désaleux) and the Mle1886D a.m. (amorçage modifié = modified primer) with a V° of 701 m/s. The armor piercing cartridge "cartouche de 8mm à belle perforante (P)" can also be used. It has a V° of 950 m/s and a penetration capacity of 6mm at 400m, thus able to penetrate a helmet or a small protection.
The rifles issued to the snipers had the special mount for the scope and specially selected rifles with higher level of engineering in order to increase the accuracy. Each rifle was adjusted and fitted with a dedicated scope which had the number of the rifle marked on it.
The semi-automatic R.S.C. Mle1917/1918 rifle was used during WW1 and during the Rif war and several were still used in France in 1939/1940 and issued to the best sharpshooters but probably never to snipers (with a scope). This rifle like the MAS Mle1936 were probably never equipped with a scope but it is very likely that various trials has been led with the MAS36 rifle. In May-June 1940 there were also trials with the experimental MAS40 rifle (semi-automatic, 7.5x54 mm, 5 rounds clips, 10 rounds magazine or an other version with a 25 rounds magazine) and a new prismatic APX M686 scope but this scope proved to be inferior to the older APX21.
The French snipers seem to have been issued at the battalion level (1 for about 800 men then) in 1939/1940 and several served also in the Corps Francs. In all the cased these kind of rifles were never issued to units smaller than a platoon.
The Free French (1941-1943) used probably mostly British SMLE .303 n°3 MkI(T) and .303 n°4 MkI(T) rifles, at least for the French SAS and commando-marines who operated with the British forces. From 1943 on (French Army) the main sniper rifle became the Springfield 1903A4 (2.5x M73B scope). A few civilian Lyman Alaskan scopes should have been used and designated M73. Redfield delivered about 2000 mountings for them but Lyman never delivered the scopes. The common scope found on the Springfield 1903A4 is therefore the civilian Weaver 330C (marked '330C') but the majority of them had the military markings (M73B1). About 36,000 M73B1 scopes have been delivered.
Concerning the USMC, during WW1 the marines used the Springfield 1903A1 with 5x Lyman and Winchester A5 scopes. During WW2 and later they mostly used Springfield 1903A1 rifles with the 8x Unertl scope and Springfield 1903A4 with the same scopes than the US Army (M73B1).
During late WW2 and after WW2 the Springfield 1903A4 mounted also the scopes used on the Garand M1C and M1D rifles (M81, M82 and M84). Several Springfield 1903A4 were also equipped with a French scope designated M73B2 in the US army, it had the 'OPL France' markings (OPL = Optique de Précision de Levallois). This factory, created in 1923, produced later the APX L806-1 (Mle1953), L806-2 and L806-3 mounted on the MAS49, MAS49/56 and later FRF-1 and FRF-2 sniper rifles.
The Garand M1C/M1D sniper rifle (2.5x M81/M82 scopes, replaced in April 1945 by the M84) is really used only in 1945 and not on the European theater of operations. It is often equipped with a conical M2 flash hider available at the end of 1944 and replaced in January 1953 by the T37 flash hider.
At the beginning of the Indochina war, the French troops used various sniper rifles : Springfield 1903A4, M1D Garand, a few SMLE and it seems that a significant number of scoped Gewehr 43 were also used. The MAS49 with APX L806 (3.85x magnification) becomes the new sniper rifle in 1953.
In Algeria the MAS49 is still in use, followed by the MAS49/56 with the APX L806 Mle1953 scope. Several night scope (IR) were used on USM1/2 carbines and MAS49/56 rifles.
In 1967/1970 the FRF-1, first French rifle totally dedicated to sniping, is introduced and replaces slowly all the other sniper rifles. The caliber is still 7.5x54mm like in the MAS36, MAS40, MAS44, MAS49 and MAS49/56 and the scope is still the APX L806 (3.85x magnification). At its arrival the FRF-1 won all the military competitions but the USA argued that it was a sporting rifle instead of a military rifle.
In 1986, the FRF-1 is modified to fire the 7.62x51mm (.308 NATO) and the bipod is also slightly modified. The new rifle is called FRF-2 but it is still equipped with the APX L806 scope whose magnification is now too limited. During the 90's the infantry units of the French army adopted the Scrome J8 (8x magnification) but all the other arms of the French army conserved the APX L806. The French Navy and Air Force adopted a modified rifle called FRG-2 and equipped with a Schmidt & Bender (6x magnification) scope.
The French PGM Hécate II heavy sniping rifle has nowadays been adopted by the French army under the name FR12.7 (12.7x99mm). This rifle is equipped with a Scrome J10 (10x magnification) scope.
The replacement for the FRF-2 could be chosen among these candidates :
- PGM MiniHécate (bolt action, 7.62x51mm)
- PGM .338 (bolt action, .338 Lapua Magnum)
- Accuracy International AW L96A1 (bolt action, 7.62x51mm)
- H&K PSG1 (semi-automatic, 7.62x51mm)
- or simply a couple involving the FR12.7 + and assault rifle equipped with a scope (AR15 series or FAMAS equipped with a 4x Scrome J4 scope)
Concerning the scopes, a future replacement to the APX L806 could be the Nightforce NXS (3.5-15x) scope.
Notes : the English word sniper covers today two designations in French
● "tireurs de précision" (TP)
This term designate usually soldiers armed with 7.62x51mm (.308) rifles, often the FRF-2, who are integrated in combat squads. Their task is to cover the squad during its progression and to spot/recon the enemy positions. They are able of engaging targets at 600-800m while the assault rifles in .223 (even with a scope) have a range limited to 300m.
● "tireurs d'élite" (TE)
This term comes from the word "vélite" which was given to particularly outstanding regiments. The TE operates usually in a group of 3 men : one gunner, one man with observation equipments and one man with an assault rifle protecting the team. The TE operates more often with 12.7x99mm rifles and are able to engage targets at about 1800m.
------------------
Some photos :
Lebel Mle1886/93 (standard version) :
http://www.secondeguerre.net/Armes/lebelmle1886m93.jpg
MAS 49 :
http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/mas49.jpg
MAS 49/56 :
http://www.moneypit.net/~bhinton/French_MAS/MAS_49.56w.scopeNS.jpg
FRF-2 (with OB-50C scope on the first photo) :
http://www.kepi.cncplusplus.com/Gabon/Sharpshooting/Sharpshooting_01_w.jpg
http://www.kepi.cncplusplus.com/images/Snipers/Misc/Misc_03.jpg
FRG-2 :
http://www.moneypit.net/~bhinton/French_MAS/FR_G2_7.62N_Left.jpg
Hecate II :
http://www.passpass.net/web/pgm/imgs/hecate2/hecate2.jpg
http://www.snipercountry.com/photogallery/French_50_Hécate_II_01.JPG
http://netdefense2.free.fr/images/dossier/cote-ivoire/ci5.jpg
http://le.cos.free.fr/photo/snipers/sniper546525.jpg
http://le.cos.free.fr/photo/snipers/sniper5746.jpg
Hecate II and FRF-2 :
http://www.bim27.terre.defense.gouv.fr/photo/max/16085451829939201.jpg
FAMAS with scope :
http://www.kepi.cncplusplus.com/images/Snipers/Misc/Misc_11.jpg
Best regards,
David