Far Cry or Doom 3?

[Haiw]

So which one do you think is best? IMO it's Far Cry... the monotonous indoor-only levels of Doom 3 get boring after a while, and all the 'scarryness' kind of fades away when you get used to the same tricks being pulled on you time and time again. Sure, Doom 3 is still a lot of fun, but IMO Far Cry is more diverse, more challenging, has a better storyline, and is all in all just more fun.

[Herrmannek]

I passed both, liked none... but if I have to choose far cry was more entertianing... Doom3 was almost direct copy of half-life storyline, and everything was so dark that I havent seen a thing.. I was using torch 99% of time ...

[Scaar.at]

i think its hard to compare the games. doom 3 seems so unfinished, good graphics, but the rest is bleh. But it got a nice atmosphare and some shocking effects.

I voted for Far Cry, cause I really like the tropic flair, and there is much more variation :)

[Haiw]

Two more thing I forgot to mention on why I chose Far Cry...Far Cry had BOTH indoors and (huge) outdoors, and vehicles...and Far Cry takes way longer to play trough.

[Fintin]

i said far cry because i dont like seoul and he like doom

[Operation Ivy]

Farcry=ok, didnt really get into it
Doom3=Awsome first 3 hours you play then, bleh

Both have crappy MP, bring on HL2 :D

[AFACadet]

I don't like the environment at all in Far Cry (although it did look amazing, but not for an FPS).

I don't know why people always compair doom 3 and Far Cry. They are apples and oranges. They are going for two vastly different experences. Its like saying what's better FS2004 or IL2; Saving Private Ryan or the Matrix?

I got to give the Doom 3 engine props though for what it does on my computer. It creates CG quality graphics with EXTREMELY good framerates on my computer (its almost three years old and has a 9600). Far Cry is barely playable on my computer (even inside) with slightly lower graphics settings.

While Doom 3 doesn't add anything new to FPS's (besides the engine), id did EXACTLY what they said they were going to do, create a new doom.

Far Cry did EXACTLY what they wanted. Make a more wide open game.

One is not better than the other, just different.


Now what I AM waiting for is the RTCW remake with the doom 3 engine :)

[Seoulstriker]

I don't understand how people can play a few hours of Doom and say the rest is "blah". Have they actually played through the entire game? It just got better and better as time passed.


I have not played FarCry, but I have played the demo. Not much to get overly excited about. It's the first game to do outdoor environments. The next game to do that will be STALKER. What I really didn't like about FC was the story and voice acting. Bleh.



BTW, Herrmannek, the HL story was a rip off the Doom3 story.

[Ratamacue]

BTW, Herrmannek, the HL story was a rip off the Doom3 story.
rofl rofl rofl

[Haiw]

I don't understand how people can play a few hours of Doom and say the rest is "blah". Have they actually played through the entire game? It just got better and better as time passed.


I have not played FarCry, but I have played the demo. Not much to get overly excited about. It's the first game to do outdoor environments. The next game to do that will be STALKER. What I really didn't like about FC was the story and voice acting. Bleh.



BTW, Herrmannek, the HL story was a rip off the Doom3 story.
:cantbeli:
First you say that people can't judge Doom 3 by playing it for a few hours, and then you proceed to judge FC by only having played the demo. Geez... Well I got to admit that when you compare FC demo and Doom 3 full version than YES, in THAT case Doom 3 is better. :roll:

Oh...and do you mind if I laugh at the last line? rofl

[Operation Ivy]

I did beat Doom3, it was fun for a couple hours but then it was just the same old thing over and over. Imp comes from the front, turn around theres another Imp p-)

[Herrmannek]

BTW, Herrmannek, the HL story was a rip off the Doom3 story.



rofl , I admit I cheated to go through doom3, it was to much arcadish and I don't like save/load over and over, and continous swapin betwen flashlite and guns was so annoying.. same **** as previous dooms... only enemy mass counts nothing else matter.... I prefer much more low intesity games...

[5jumpchump]

Doom3 sucks balls . No guns with flashlights - fail . No night vision - fail .
Ten year old level design complete with coridor fighting and "find the key "
gameplay - fail . Weapons suck balls . Get the shotgun and walk up to a wall and fire at it . LOL thick black smoke covers eveything you see ! - fail . This is the future folks , why did we go back to blackpowder ?
I could go on and on but it's not worth it , and neither is this game .
Oh one more thing . This game is retardedly dark :bash: yeah just love micro managing my gun to flashlight while im getting my ass kicked in the dark by a pussy zombie that walks 2 miles per hour . This game blows donkey chode at best .

[Herrmannek]

esspecialy shotgun looked like it have flashlite on the end of reload grip... belive me I tried to find way to turn it on....

[Seoulstriker]

Sorry, I should have said: "HL is based on the Doom 1 story." Are you happy now? :)

[MVSpartan117]

lol. Doom 3 is the best game in a very long time, its ashame you don't like it.

[Haiw]

Well though I wouldn't judge it as tough as 5jumpchump, I have to agree on some points with him.

I know they did the flashlight thing for 'atmosphere' and to make it all a bit scarier and all since you couldn't shoot and see at the same time...but in reality...it gets pretty ****ing retarded after a while. I mean, there I am, in a dark spot, switching between my flashlight and my gun between every ****ing shot because otherwise I don't know where to shoot. Great. This is the year 2150 something, and we have LOST the knowledge of the invention of simple DUCT TAPE. :cantbeli: Or are flashlights on pistols, shotguns and assault rifles suddenly out of the loop?

2nd point: there's no secondary fire for all weapons...come on, what am I gonna use mouse2 for now, lame ass jumping?

And then some other points chump pointed out: bullet impacts look weird, and grenade explosions just look odd. Last but not least level design starts to show a serious lack of inspiration after 1 hour. :roll:

Anyway, all in all I'd say it's still a pretty fun game, but the points above, and some other things I pointed out, should make clear that this still isn't exactely the best next thing since sliced bread...or Half-Life.

[Seoulstriker]

level design is not inspired? What about alpha labs? what about enpro? communications? delta labs? hell??? the dig site???

Come on, they were incredible! woot

[Haiw]

Oh yeah...real creative. You've got alpha labs 1 to 4. Basically the entire game has the same 'darky research facility' look to it. And come on. I know blood is necessary in a horror game, but it starts to lose its effect when on literally EVERY floor and wall. Seriously, level design should really get a kick in the arse, because it starts to get really really monotone after a while.

[Operation Ivy]

i liked Hell :D

[Seoulstriker]

I think they simulated a Mars facility incredibly well. As was mentioned in other forums, what were you expecting? Palm trees to be growing indoors on Mars? Come on. The design was simply incredible. And it was very inspired. Did you actually buy the game?

[Herrmannek]

Oh yeah...real creative. You've got alpha labs 1 to 4. Basically the entire game has the same 'darky research facility' look to it. And come on. I know blood is necessary in a horror game, but it starts to lose its effect when on literally EVERY floor and wall. Seriously, level design should really get a kick in the arse, because it starts to get really really monotone after a while.

good wey they made levels so linear that i never lost :), and one why doors are always closed until I kill monsters in the room... I bounced to often from doors that should be open.....

[Haiw]

I think they simulated a Mars facility incredibly well. As was mentioned in other forums, what were you expecting? Palm trees to be growing indoors on Mars? Come on. The design was simply incredible. And it was very inspired. Did you actually buy the game?
'They simulated a Mars facility incredibly well'. It looked like a damn factory from the industrial revolution! Everything looks utterly depressing, and it's crazy to think that a 150 years from now they'd build anything like THAT> Actually...YES palm trees growing indoors WOULD propably more on the mark. The design, true, most of it looked pretty good, especially with the good graphics engine, but it really was uninspired.

And no I didn't buy it... I downloaded it. It ain't even in stores here yet. In fact, even if it was I wouldn't have bought it right away because I wasn't sure if it'd even run.

[Freibier]

I think I like Farcry better but it's a close match.
Doom3 has the better models while Farcry has much better graphics overall.

[Seoulstriker]

Really?

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/doom3/clay/outside3.jpg

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=7425&stc=1

How can you say FC's graphics are better? FC looks very artificial. Nice colors, but artificial. D3 simply looks incredible.

[Seoulstriker]

And here's a little critique:


If the hundreds of critics out there had designed Doom3 the experience might look a little something like this:

First, the lights would never flicker and they would fill every inch of every map with light thus preventing the maps from being "too dark" and having to use your flashlight all the time.

If the lights did go out, which might happen when demons from hell manage to take over your base, you'd be well equiped with night vision goggles, weapons with lights affixed (thanks Gamespot for those two suggestions), a light emiting helmet, and other modern accessories that would make combat more realistic. After all, this game is all about realism....right???

Next, gamers would be submitted to 8 hours of dialogue in an effort to make a more compelling story line. This would include dialogue between zombies, between two dead guys lying on the floor, maybe you'd even meet a friendly imp who just wanted someone to talk to. That way, you'd have less "old-school" FPS action, and more story development.

In an effort to turn up the challenge factor a notch our friendly critics would have you dying every 20 steps because the greater the challenge, the greater the fun...or something like that. hmm...Nightmare level just isn't challenging enough?

The sound of the weapons would be magnified 50X because if your eardrums aren't shattered the sound just isn't dramatic enough. A pistol SHOULD sound like a hand cannon.

As Gamespot suggests, the game needs some music. I mean, what space marine doesn't take a mission to Mars without his holographic music player?? Who needs to hear the footsteps of mosters about when you could be chilling to some hip-hop. And, of course, you wouldn't be a good critic without suggesting this while at the same time complaining that the game's not realistic.

Oh, and don't forget to up the intesity. Apparently causing a gamer's heart rate to jump to 100 bpm just isn't enough. A solid FPS should cause one to go into cardiac arrest.

Now, just add these few suggested ideas and we've got ourselves a game of the year.

Any other bright ideas?

[Haiw]

You're showing a screenshot of a base on Mars and you complain about FC looking artificial? In what way does FC look artificial to you anyway? It looks like the most realistic pacific jungle island(s) I've ever seen in a computer game, and it's got pretty good looking insides as well.

[5jumpchump]

I'm pretty harsh in my critisisim but here is why . Funny as an artist i couldn't care a less about the graphics of a game i only care about what you do and the gameplay of it all . I can play a really adictive game with ****ty graphics and be completely happy . Games like Tetris , Russian assault , Tribes 1 to name a few . I'm all about feeling like a badass kicking butt and taking names - and here i am stuck in the future with a 5 sided flashlight , ****ty pistol , no night vision and not even a god damn knife :bash: - yay . Sorry but shooting a one enemy at a time on screen in the dark , ok i'll be fair , 4 enemy at best/most just isn't intence as even doom 1 . I played the crap out of doom 1 but after 5 years of playing it and levels created by players i just sick of it . Since then Doom fell to the wayside and i never played again . But after all the hype and visits to E3 i got inspired and finally eager to play it . So being a gameplay guy i can't see any good changes to this game , only backsteps and the same ol same ol . Boooooooooring .

[Seoulstriker]

You're showing a screenshot of a base on Mars and you complain about FC looking artificial? In what way does FC look artificial to you anyway? It looks like the most realistic pacific jungle island(s) I've ever seen in a computer game, and it's got pretty good looking insides as well.

Of course it's the best modelled jungle for computer! Are there any others?

What looks artificial about it? The sands are combed like a resort beach. The huge rock texture and roughness is none existant. Trees do not shadow each other or overlap. Perhaps this has something to do with most of the trees being sprites? The colors are washed out, and the polygonal system in the distant is none-existant. LOD in the distance is washed out, which includes the textures.

Compare that with the incredibly realistic Mars base, with unified lighting, detailed rocks, textured properly. It seems like night and day for me.

[Haiw]

That critique is bull****, and only deals with some gamespot article.


First, the lights would never flicker and they would fill every inch of every map with light thus preventing the maps from being "too dark" and having to use your flashlight all the time.
You don't really hear me complaining about this, however, EVERYTHING being dark gets tiring. Sure, a lot of dark is livable, but at least a few light spots would have made it less of a drag.


If the lights did go out, which might happen when demons from hell manage to take over your base, you'd be well equiped with night vision goggles, weapons with lights affixed (thanks Gamespot for those two suggestions), a light emiting helmet, and other modern accessories that would make combat more realistic. After all, this game is all about realism....right???
I'm not asking for NVGs (even though that would be...realistic?) However, how about this? Having the big flashlight that illuminates a lot, and some smaller small cone flashlight on the weapons, so that it's useless to look trough entire rooms, but so that, once you've located a demon you don't have to keep making half a second switches between flashlight and weapon just to see if you're still aiming at the bad guy.


Next, gamers would be submitted to 8 hours of dialogue in an effort to make a more compelling story line. This would include dialogue between zombies, between two dead guys lying on the floor, maybe you'd even meet a friendly imp who just wanted someone to talk to. That way, you'd have less "old-school" FPS action, and more story development.
I'm not asking for an entire movie ala Mafia, but a few more cutscenes here and there wouldn't have hurt. Also, the plot as in 'your objectives' when you're walking trough the facility is pretty weak.


In an effort to turn up the challenge factor a notch our friendly critics would have you dying every 20 steps because the greater the challenge, the greater the fun...or something like that. hmm...Nightmare level just isn't challenging enough?
Not asking for that. However, less predictable placement of enemies, and less predictable behaviour of them wouldn't have hurt.


The sound of the weapons would be magnified 50X because if your eardrums aren't shattered the sound just isn't dramatic enough. A pistol SHOULD sound like a hand cannon.

As Gamespot suggests, the game needs some music. I mean, what space marine doesn't take a mission to Mars without his holographic music player?? Who needs to hear the footsteps of mosters about when you could be chilling to some hip-hop. And, of course, you wouldn't be a good critic without suggesting this while at the same time complaining that the game's not realistic.
I ain't complaining about sound or the lack of music, everything's dead on in that department.


Oh, and don't forget to up the intesity. Apparently causing a gamer's heart rate to jump to 100 bpm just isn't enough. A solid FPS should cause one to go into cardiac arrest.
Even though you get jumpy a few times at the start, after not too long the scripted 'scares' become all too known and identical, thus taking away that 'bonus' to the gameplay.

[Seoulstriker]

I think the colors and grittiness of Mars are incredibly well done:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040716a/09-MG-06-sol178-A190R1_br.jpg

[Seoulstriker]

No, it wasn't a critique of you at all. It was a critique of a large percentage of the HL2 community (or people who hate D3 for no reason...) ;)

[5jumpchump]

All i can say is that the poll here speaks for itself :P

[Haiw]

Of course it's the best modelled jungle for computer! Are there any others?
:roll: Yes...there are.

Not to nitpick, but I hope you do realise that you're comparing a screenshot that doesn't exactely look like FC on highest detail to a highest detail Doom 3-on-a-3-ghz-and-geforce-6800 screenshot.


What looks artificial about it? The sands are combed like a resort beach.
How small are the nits you're gonna pick? :|


The huge rock texture and roughness is none existant.
Not all rocks are smooth, and the same thing like I said before...I've seen em a lot rougher. :|


Trees do not shadow each other or overlap.
You've got trees where you can see every different leaf....you've got more of those trees than you could count...and you're complaining about their shadowing?!


Perhaps this has something to do with most of the trees being sprites?Actually...only long distance trees are...and actually...that's a LOD system. You don't see much of it though. And...if you want you can disable that. However, that would, just like trying to run Doom 3 on its best, take a monster machine that not everyone has.


The colors are washed out, and the polygonal system in the distant is none-existant. LOD in the distance is washed out, which includes the textures.
Same story... all depends on LOD settings...you want it to look nicer? Sure, if you've got a 3.4 ghz with a radion x800 I promise you it will.

Besides...you're complaining here about how it looks on 500-1000 meter distance while the longest I've seen on Doom 3 is like 50 meters. :roll:

Besides, you still haven't really tried to compare any of the other parts where Far Cry looked really really good, you haven't counted the fact that Doom 3 only really does indoors and CQB, and most important of all, your entire discussion about whether D3 or FC is better is based on the graphics alone... and even though FC still looks damn good, it's the gameplay and storyline where it truly beats Doom3 into a bloody pulp.


Compare that with the incredibly realistic Mars base, with unified lighting, detailed rocks, textured properly. It seems like night and day for me.
Lightning? To be honest I wasn't really all that impressed with that. To be honest there wasn't all that much I haven't seen in FC, except that they chose to use it more often in Doom 3. Furthermore, most rocks look good in FC (:roll: wohoo, the game can be utter ****e, as long AS THE ROCKS ARE GOOD YAY!), and most of the textures in FC make you kind of drool. Not to mention the long range sights. Oh and talking about night and day difference; Doom 3 doesn't even have that. :(

[Herrmannek]

Seul do you take your pills regulary?
Man that game wasn't nothing special there is multum of such games, graphics wasn't specialy revolutionary...everything was blacked due to optimisation reasons with doesn't says well about programers... Game was monotonius... world wasn't interesting enough(you culdn't even flush the toilet or break mirror, even shooting at hunging lamps wasn't moving them, also flashin from completly dark to bright lamps almost made me few times to get apoplexy... there was only one real puzlle in the game(with dragoon and shooting into teleporter when he spawns new headlights ( HALF-LIFE :) ) ...
I forgot about that game already and I'm not going to play it again..

[Haiw]

Oh and one more thing. Do you want me to enlarge the rocks of that 'beautifull outdoors Mars scene in Doom 3'-screenshot? Because I don't think it looks all that good in that department.

[Seoulstriker]

What's great about D3 (unlike FC) is that you get almost the same graphics regardless of what kind of computer you have. The D3 screenshot I posted is from a Geforce 5900 (sells for $170). You certainly can't have that kind of detail in FC.

Wouldn't you expect the "greatest model of outdoor environments" to have a decently scalable LOD? I've seen long distances in FC, and I can say that far distances look terrible. Everything is muddled. D3 doesn't show long distances? I don't think you can say it's not easy to draw the D3 pic with that level of detail in the FC engine and still get incredible frame rates.


FarCry is a game which requires a monster machine and graphics card to run it with great graphics, unlike D3.


Doom3 does outdoors incredibly well, actually better than FarCry. Saying that D3 can only do indoors is like saying HL2's only component is the Havok physics engine.


Man, the textures in FC look great in some instances, just like in D3. I guess preference goes into it as well.

[Haiw]

What's great about D3 (unlike FC) is that you get almost the same graphics regardless of what kind of computer you have. The D3 screenshot I posted is from a Geforce 5900 (sells for $170). You certainly can't have that kind of detail in FC.
Not to nitpick, but FC still looked great on lowest detail on my old GF 2 Ti. Especially Doom 3s models look horrible when you turn down the detail. (Just try it, put it on medium or low, and look at some character or monster models...ooooh the horror)


Wouldn't you expect the "greatest model of outdoor environments" to have a decently scalable LOD? I've seen long distances in FC, and I can say that far distances look terrible. Everything is muddled.
That's called jungle. Besides, there is fairly good scalable LOD, however, there's just no way you could keep those kind of ranges and that kind of detail without making some concessions, like dropping to sprites on long distances. Of course, you can have a couple of thousand polygon trees...I just don't think your graphics card would be happy about that.


D3 doesn't show long distances? I don't think you can say it's not easy to draw the D3 pic with that level of detail in the FC engine and still get incredible frame rates.D3 was optimised for close range, while FC is more of an all-round engine. However, I wouldn't be so sure about your statement there, since all the indoors look pretty top-notch in FC.


FarCry is a game which requires a monster machine and graphics card to run it with great graphics, unlike D3.
You're kidding here right? It's got great graphics on fairly good computers, it takes a monster computer for monster graphics...just like Doom 3.


Doom3 does outdoors incredibly well, actually better than FarCry.
A little 25 meter deep rock garden with a skybox ending at a height of 10 meters isn't my definition of outdoors... :roll:


Saying that D3 can only do indoors is like saying HL2's only component is the Havok physics engine.
Bullcrap, that's just the way it is.


Man, the textures in FC look great in some instances, just like in D3. I guess preference goes into it as well.Gimme a few minutes so I can point it out to you, okay?

[Haiw]

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/doom3/clay/outside3.jpg
Your screenshot allright? Now look at the dark rocks to the left and right. If those are 'high resolution texture and 'roughtness' then my left nut is the future King of England. Low-poly as well. Now look down. Why does the rocks on the ground look good? Because you're 10 meters above them and there's no LOD because the game knows that's about as far as it'll ever have to render! Besides, it's not like that really took much polygons or incredible texture work. The rocks in the ground might seem okay at first glance, but when you look closely you can see they're not that special either.

P.S. Look at the sky. :(

And that's Doom 3 at its best...

[Seoulstriker]

Keep in mind that in the game, you are supposed to be viewing the whole thing from the monorail, not above the rocks in "noclip" mode. Compare that with FC where the low-res rocks are right where you are supposed to be moving.



(and please link to hi-res shots, don't hot-link)

[Freibier]

Just some random FC shots, not even good ones
http://img24.exs.cx/img24/9305/FarCry0009.jpg
http://img62.exs.cx/img62/8562/FarCry27.jpg
http://img62.exs.cx/img62/1250/FarCry14.jpg
I like it better than Doom3 but as I said before, it'S very close

[5jumpchump]

"then my left nut is the future King of England"

rofl rofl rofl

[Seoulstriker]

The water looks nice. Isn't that an effect from DX8?

[Ratamacue]

Sorry, I should have said: "HL is based on the Doom 1 story." Are you happy now? :)
That ranks among the stupidest and most baseless statements I've ever heard.

[Haiw]

Sorry, I should have said: "HL is based on the Doom 1 story." Are you happy now? :)
That ranks among the stupidest and most baseless statements I've ever heard.
Well there's some resemblance: lots of nasty stuff comes trough human devised portal. However...the resemblce stops there. Doom 1 is at Mars, HL at earth. Doom 1 has hell... HL has just some parellel world. Doom 1 has brainless hell-creatures... HL has like...real creatures, some of them more like simple animals, some more like humans. Doom 1 has a real invasion, whereas HL has more like an accident where suddenly lots of stuff from Xen ends up on earth. Doom 1 doesn't have 3 sides, unlike HL (aliens, marines, and scientists / BM security caught up in the middle).

I think the best way to differentiate it is that HL really has a storyline as an element of the game, whereas the storyline of Doom 1 is mostly just an excuse to shoot demons.

[radon]

Far Cry was better game. Far Cry runs more playable with an older machine. Doom3 is unbelievably ugly with lower detail settings. In the worst case in D3 the enemies had only a grey head. That was really ugly.
Doom3 engine is even incabable of real outdoor engines like all Carmack engines have been. Although D3 indoors looked slightly better.

Far Cry has more interesting gameplay , when D3 only has dark corridors. D3 is very repetitive and too dark. And why would anyone build a mars base like that? To make as many people mental patients after a few weeks?

However D3 is not a bad game. It is like Doom 1 would have been today. It is a modern varation of a very old game. It is really behind it's time. Like a horsecarriage with a car engine

[Seoulstriker]

Sorry, I should have said: "HL is based on the Doom 1 story." Are you happy now? :)
That ranks among the stupidest and most baseless statements I've ever heard.

HL's story? A group of scientific conspirators open a gateway to another world/dimension. Creatures pore through the gateway, and you, as a member of the original team, are responsible for dealing with the threat. You move throughout the base, dealing with scientists etc and the people covering up the mistakes, until you go through the gateway and battle the boss on his own turf.

^^ Wait, that's almost exactly the Doom 1 story! Except instead of a marine from the test group, you are a badass/strong-ass scientist. Instead of being on Mars, you're in the US. Instead of being covered up by a corporation, it's covered up by the US government. Instead of a gateway to hell, it's a gateway to an alien world.

If that's not as close as you can get to the same story without doing the same story, I don't know what you would do. ;)


You know what's really gonna bake your noodle? HL2's story? Alien forces from another world invade Earth and wreak havoc among the local populace. Chaos ensues.

^^ Wait, that's almost exactly the Doom 2 story! Except instead of the forces of hell invading earth, it's an alien force. And instead of being the same marine, you are the same lame scientist. Instead of wreaking havoc on "earth", it's wreaking havoc on "City 17".

Interesting. :D

[Haiw]

:cantbeli:
"Instead of Mars, it was Europe...and instead of Hell forces it was the Germans! MOHAA ripped off Doom!" :roll:

[Seoulstriker]

:cantbeli:
"Instead of Mars, it was Europe...and instead of Hell forces it was the Germans! MOHAA ripped off Doom!" :roll:

Huh? There wasn't a group of scientists that opened a portal to somewhere other than earth in WW2. There weren't any super-natural forces in WW2 either. Oh, and there wasn't any cover-up by a corporation on any of the scientific projects in WW2. But you knew that. You just don't want to admit I'm right. :P

[Haiw]

Well right now you don't have a lot of choices in game storylines. You want aliens in a present day environment, there's 2 choices. Portals or space invasion. With the kind of creatures there are on Xen it's obvious that they couldn't have that kind of space travel, and they're not the kind of creatures that'd invent portal technology, and THUS it had be us. BTW, HLs forces weren't super-natural. They weren't from Earth, but Xen is just another world...however they weren't super-natural. Oh, and how much of a coverup was there realy in Doom? In Doom it just all went wrong with one person being alive (coverup came after you finished bussiness, while in HL it was part of the game (marines)). I could go on and on, but this is just kicking a dead cow.

BTW maybe I should have said RTCW instead of MOHAA...RTCW does have the super-natural stuff and all the under-wraps stuff. Anyway, it's bull**** to say HL ripped off Dooms story. It's like there was that much to rip off in the first place since Doom didn't have much of a story. HL however DID. BTW... notice how Doom 3 has the same G-man-like character? :lol:

[Seoulstriker]

It's certainly not a rip off, that's not what I intended. I meant that the games are very similar in terms of their story. So when someone says "Doom3 rips off HL", that person needs to be corrected, because if there is any ripping off, it's HL off of Doom 1. And I also meant super-natural as beyond nature, as in not of this nature/world.

And I do understand that there are limited numbers of stories you can put into a video game. Valve just happened to use the same storyline as id did. FarCry's story is somewhat original. But in the end, what matters is that HL's "story" is no better than Doom's "story". They are just different technologies. Just like how HL expanded on the Doom story with NPCs. Just like how Doom 3 expanded on Doom 1 (and HL) with incredible atmosphere and graphics and sound and gameplay. Just like how HL2 will expand on Doom 2's story with better graphics and sound/etc than Doom 2. And Doom 4 will expand on HL2's story with even more of the same old same old.

:lol:

[Cambridge Rabbit]

I haven't played Doom 3, but it seems like a lot of people are complaining that it's too dark. I used to have that problem with Half-Life and its mods (Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat). I found this:

http://www.pulsarsoftware.com/products/gammalnch.htm

It works wonders for me.

[Haiw]

And I do understand that there are limited numbers of stories you can put into a video game. Valve just happened to use the same storyline as id did. FarCry's story is somewhat original. But in the end, what matters is that HL's "story" is no better than Doom's "story". They are just different technologies. Just like how HL expanded on the Doom story with NPCs. Just like how Doom 3 expanded on Doom 1 (and HL) with incredible atmosphere and graphics and sound and gameplay. Just like how HL2 will expand on Doom 2's story with better graphics and sound/etc than Doom 2. And Doom 4 will expand on HL2's story with even more of the same old same old.
Actually, HL did more than just 'expand' a bit with NPCs. The difference between Doom and HL is how important the storyline is. In Doom the storyline was just an excuse to drop one player in a battle against impossible odds against horrendous monsters. In HL the story was there to guide and steer the player trough the whole experience. The story just had different functions. In the same way in Doom 3 the storyline still has a small siderole; it's not really important, all you do is walk trough the levels from front to end. Without any real meaning to it. Oh and please tell me how Doom 3 expanded on HL in gameplay (graphics and sound is obvious, just because of technological evolution).

[Haiw]

I haven't played Doom 3, but it seems like a lot of people are complaining that it's too dark. I used to have that problem with Half-Life and its mods (Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat). I found this:

http://www.pulsarsoftware.com/products/gammalnch.htm

It works wonders for me.
Actually getting the gamma up that way doesn't work. It's not that there's LITTLE light in some areas, it's that there's NO light in some areas. There's no way you're gonna get to see anything with any tool if your whole screen is just showing the RGB value 0 0 0.

[Cambridge Rabbit]

Actually getting the gamma up that way doesn't work. It's not that there's LITTLE light in some areas, it's that there's NO light in some areas. There's no way you're gonna get to see anything with any tool if your whole screen is just showing the RGB value 0 0 0.

Ah, I see. I didn't realize the game was like that. Thanks. :)

[Seoulstriker]

Actually, HL did more than just 'expand' a bit with NPCs. The difference between Doom and HL is how important the storyline is. In Doom the storyline was just an excuse to drop one player in a battle against impossible odds against horrendous monsters. In HL the story was there to guide and steer the player trough the whole experience. The story just had different functions. In the same way in Doom 3 the storyline still has a small siderole; it's not really important, all you do is walk trough the levels from front to end. Without any real meaning to it. Oh and please tell me how Doom 3 expanded on HL in gameplay (graphics and sound is obvious, just because of technological evolution).

What surprises me is that so few people mention the UI in Doom3. There are so many high-resolution, almost Flash/shockwave based, computer screens that you interact with. I think this is truly revolutionary, and nobody has picked up on this! It's so refreshing after the "use" button was so common in FPSes out there.

And don't kid yourself with the story in HL either. It was really there to pull you through the action. I mean, did you really give a s*** when you went to Xen? Were you thinking to yourself: "damn, I've really gotta do this and help out mankind. I'm the last hope. Grrrrrrrr." I doubt it. Storylines can be interesting, but it's not the basis of the game. In Max Payne, it was, and it was very worthwhile and enjoyable. The idea that the story is involved throughout HL was something important. Doom laid the story and whatever and let you do the gameplay with the story in mind, but not constantly being thrown at you.

Immersion is incredibly important, and Doom3 made such incredible advances in this area that it will not be fully appreciated until further along the road (as much as unified lighting system as well). I know I'm going to be disappointed if HL2 has a "use" button and non-interactable screens or low-resolution/non-animated screens.

[Haiw]

What surprises me is that so few people mention the UI in Doom3. There are so many high-resolution, almost Flash/shockwave based, computer screens that you interact with. I think this is truly revolutionary, and nobody has picked up on this! It's so refreshing after the "use" button was so common in FPSes out there.
I had picked it up, it's just that you never asked for any positive things about Doom 3... :lol: BTW it's not really special anyway, it's just a combination of 3 things: high res textures, a 'hotzone' where the crosshair changes, and having the weapon dissapear and mouse1 becoming a usekey when in a hotzone. So technically it's not THAT revolutionary. :P


And don't kid yourself with the story in HL either. It was really there to pull you through the action. I mean, did you really give a s*** when you went to Xen? Were you thinking to yourself: "damn, I've really gotta do this and help out mankind. I'm the last hope. Grrrrrrrr." I doubt it. Storylines can be interesting, but it's not the basis of the game.
Well not like that, but in a way it did feel logical and it made sense when you went to Xen. Lots of bits and pieces fell together and made sense. Sometimes the 'story' was just creating a feeling with yourself. For example I can remember when finally I stepped off that elevator and saw clear skies in the game I really felt relieved in a way. That kind of stuff. Also how everything about what happened and parts about Xen became clear by for example things that scientists said and all that stuff.


In Max Payne, it was, and it was very worthwhile and enjoyable. The idea that the story is involved throughout HL was something important. Doom laid the story and whatever and let you do the gameplay with the story in mind, but not constantly being thrown at you.Max Payne was different. In Max Payne it was like a damn great movie where you did the action sequence of the leading role, while in HL you were in the living in the story all the time. You were living as a small person in the whole world of Black Mesa.


Immersion is incredibly important, and Doom3 made such incredible advances in this area that it will not be fully appreciated until further along the road (as much as unified lighting system as well). I know I'm going to be disappointed if HL2 has a "use" button and non-interactable screens or low-resolution/non-animated screens.
Immersion was IMO pretty far to be found in Doom3. Sure it had computer screens, but apart from that? Pretty much a lack of much story. I find myself working trough 5 levels with the vague intention of just 'getting to fireteam B' and then them being dead. It just doesn't feel like you're really doing anything, except following some vague 'objective' that's just a little excuse to keep you on your feet to walk forward into the levels instead of just thinking 'hey, why don't I find a spaceship and get out of here?!'.

[Haiw]

Oh and...


G-MAN!!!!

[Operation Ivy]

Yea i was pissed that i didnt get to fight along side of anybody in Doom3 :(
and the AI in Doom3 wasnt the best either,
but i did enjoy Doom3 just got a little boring after a while

and its ok to admit Doom3 isnt perfect Seoul ;)

[Haiw]

and its ok to admit Doom3 isnt perfect Seoul ;)
Shhh....just let the fanboy remain in his dream. ;)

[Seoulstriker]

Immersion was IMO pretty far to be found in Doom3. Sure it had computer screens, but apart from that? Pretty much a lack of much story. I find myself working trough 5 levels with the vague intention of just 'getting to fireteam B' and then them being dead. It just doesn't feel like you're really doing anything, except following some vague 'objective' that's just a little excuse to keep you on your feet to walk forward into the levels instead of just thinking 'hey, why don't I find a spaceship and get out of here?!'.

Here's the story to Doom3: you are a new recruit to a top-secret installation doing experiments in teleportation. You are the grit of the installation, and are responsible for standard base safety. Besides this, the Union Aerospace Corporation is concerned that one of its scientists is out of control and not going with protocol. It seems that that scientist is motivated by getting a new product out to production, but the UAC supervisor wants to see things for himself. Meanwhile, you are to report for duty, and your first assignment is to look for a missing scientist. You find him in the communication area trying to submit a message. Meanwhile, the out of line scientist goes completely out of line and uses an alien artifact to bring the forces of hell through the teleporter (which was already being secretly used to get specimens for study). The demonic invasion begins and everyone around you is being overwhelmed. Your teammates are being quickly overrun and you need to regroup with your team and beat back the hellish forces. But you are having trouble meeting up with them. I don't want to spoil the rest of the game for everyone else, but I would certainly say that this is one of the most immersive experiences in a computer game I have ever experienced.

Team communication, status reports, PDAs full of emails, audio logs, etc give you a new perspective in who the people in the base are. These people have families, friends, hobbies, frustrations, work troubles. They tell you of the creepy stuff going on around them, the voices they hear, the things they see. Some of the most incredible things I have read and heard in the Doom 3 were in the infirmary. There were written reports from the doctors and psychiatrists on what they were hearing and seeing. There were recorded interviews of those who went through the portal and the mental distress they were in. One report described someone who was torn apart violently, and was in such a mental frenzy after going throught the teleporter, that when he was in the infirmary, he used a scalpel to split his tongue into two.

That's dripping with atmosphere. It is some of the most incredibly immersive stuff ever. Never ever has there been a game which is so immersive.

[Haiw]

You're overexaggerating everything... How much is id software paying you?

[Seoulstriker]

These screens as promised:

http://netfiles.uiuc.edu/pzavisla/www/shot00184.jpg
http://netfiles.uiuc.edu/pzavisla/www/shot00288.jpg
http://netfiles.uiuc.edu/pzavisla/www/shot00330.jpg
http://netfiles.uiuc.edu/pzavisla/www/shot00333.jpg

[Seoulstriker]

You're overexaggerating everything... How much is id software paying you?

I went into playing the game with an open mind. I didn't go into the game thinking something like this: " *sigh* why do I have to play this stupid game... ok, let's just see what's it's about. damn. fantastic graphics. uh oh. did i say that? This story is stupid. Why isn't there any dialog? *sight* This imp doesn't impress me at all. Damn, it's too dark. I'll just increase the gamma. Hey, that part scared me! Who cares..."

The people who go into the game with open minds absolutely love it.

[usa320]

Doom is dead...its old and dried up...no graphical re-hash can change that.

[Haiw]

You're overexaggerating everything... How much is id software paying you?

I went into playing the game with an open mind. I didn't go into the game thinking something like this: " *sigh* why do I have to play this stupid game... ok, let's just see what's it's about. damn. fantastic graphics. uh oh. did i say that? This story is stupid. Why isn't there any dialog? *sight* This imp doesn't impress me at all. Damn, it's too dark. I'll just increase the gamma. Hey, that part scared me! Who cares..."

The people who go into the game with open minds absolutely love it.
Actually, I did go into the game with an open mind, and I don't love it. I like it, it's not too bad, but it's not superduper. I've been going into games with an open mind ever since Delta Force Land Warrior... (paid hard cash for that game, got hard dissapointment for my cash...) I don't 'do' fanboying of game series or developers, because I know they can both go wrong.

[Seoulstriker]

http://netfiles.uiuc.edu/pzavisla/www/shot00391.jpg
http://netfiles.uiuc.edu/pzavisla/hostedmilitaryimages/shot00059.jpg

[Operation Ivy]

http://www.halflife2.net/news//1091691339_HL2-airboat2.jpg
http://www.halflife2.net/image_files/screenshots/09.jpg
http://www.halflife2.net/image_files/screenshots/01.jpg

woot ;)

[Mudcat]

Well..you guys just talked me into wait'n on Doom3. Guess I'll get it when it drops down to the $19.99 section or pick up a used copy.

I heard they even changed "Pinky". How can you change "pinky"? What in Hell... ;) ...was wrong with "pinky"? :lol:

They should'a just take'n DOOM 2 with it's 4,000 plus levels and improved the graphics. When are the software guys go'n to realize that "eye candy" doesn't make a good game? :slap:

Dangerous Waters looks like it could be purty good...

Need a new tank sim... right, Ivy? woot

[Herrmannek]

Computers revolutionary? rofl There are two Deusexes for years now not to mention system shock with is as old as doom2. All games had more advanced computers than doom3...

[Ballistic]

Doom 3 was not meant as a reinvention of the FPS genre, rather a remake of the original Doom. Thats what id set to do, and thats what id accomplished in so many ways. Doom 3 is fantastic. Single player is a blast, played multi player but it didnt offer much.

Far Cry is heaps of fun, great fast paced action and awesome graphics (although Dooms graphics are better, FC is definately up there !!). It's engine is capable of doing quite a lot of extraordinary things. Great single player, but multi player is pretty bland.

I enjoyed both alot, still playing through Far Cry, but both have been a lot of fun.

[Herrmannek]

BTW my best single player fpp games:
WolFenstein(was fresh)
System Shock(was scary, have great story, and lots of interesting puzzles)
Terminator: Future Shock(story was less vssible but also present, atmosphere was realy good)
Duke3D(fast, funny, interesting, clear enjoy)
Half-life(great comeback to storyline games)
Operation-Flashpoint(you know why)
MOHAA(no monsters, no magic...pure playability)

[Haiw]

Computers revolutionary? rofl There are two Deusexes for years now not to mention system shock with is as old as doom2. All games had more advanced computers than doom3...
I don't know about Deus Ex 2, but Deus Ex 1 simply opens up a special 'computer screen' whereas Quake 3 does it in 3D. BTW IIRC Sin was the first to do computers, but I'm not a 100% sure on that.

[Kilgor]

I was very disapointed in doom 3

Predictable and boring levels, very boring guns, no secondary fire, absurdly dark levels and the torch is just stupid.

Its just a pretty face, and brings nothing new to the table apart from flash graphics... and im running a x800

Farcry was much better.

[Operation Ivy]

Need a new tank sim... right, Ivy

Yea one with these engines would be sweet woot

[Haiw]

Need a new tank sim... right, Ivy

Yea one with these engines would be sweet woot
Errm...yeah...like a tank sim with a maximum view range of 50 meters. Wohoo.

[Herrmannek]

One word flashpoint

[Operation Ivy]

Need a new tank sim... right, Ivy

Yea one with these engines would be sweet woot
Errm...yeah...like a tank sim with a maximum view range of 50 meters. Wohoo.

lol ok with the Far Cry Engine or the HL2 engine :D


Did everybody hear, HL2 is preloading 8/17!!!!! woot

[Haiw]

Actually I don't think any FPS engine would be good for a tank sim... like Herrmannek said, OFP might not be too bad. Anyway, for a tank sim the requirements are different than for a first person shooter; extremely long distances (as in: 5 km +) are more important than ultra extreme superduper quality at 50 cm distance...

[Herrmannek]

Actually I don't think any FPS engine would be good for a tank sim... like Herrmannek said, OFP might not be too bad. Anyway, for a tank sim the requirements are different than for a first person shooter; extremely long distances (as in: 5 km +) are more important than ultra extreme superduper quality at 50 cm distance...
this can be done with very regresive detail politics... and remember that there is no many places maybe except desert when you have clear 5km view.... I live on flat/fielded/forested ara and having more than 1km is luxury :)

[Seoulstriker]

Did everybody hear, HL2 is preloading 8/17!!!!! woot

That means that they start putting up artwork, music, sounds, for download.

[Haiw]

Did everybody hear, HL2 is preloading 8/17!!!!! woot

That means that they start putting up artwork, music, sounds, for download.
Actually...the most important thing is that it means that HL 2 will be released in september.