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View Full Version : Canadian Sniper Awarded Bronze Star to Face Court Martial



virtualpender
09-24-2002, 10:24 PM
http://report.ca/archive/report/20020527/p25i020527f.html


A Princess Pat's soldier faces a court martial for dishonouring a dead Afghan

. . . In what may be the first case of its kind, a Canadian sniper with the 3rd Battalion Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry faces court martial for just such an alleged incident in Afghanistan. Master Corporal Arron Perry was sent home to CFB Edmonton last month, after being accused of misconduct under the National Defence Act. He allegedly participated in the creation of a war trophy--a staged photograph of a dead al-Quaeda soldier, propped up with a cigarette in his mouth, and a sign on his chest that read "F--- terrorism."

Coincidentally, Master Corp. Perry was one of five Canadian soldiers who had just been recommended for the Bronze Star by U.S. General Warren Edwards, deputy-commanding general of coalition land forces in Afghanistan, for saving the lives of American soldiers. The soldier was arrested by Canadian authorities after that mission and has been on desk duty since April.

In an interview with the Edmonton Journal last month, Master Corp. Perry, 30, said, "I'm not saying I did any of it, but I support it." He maintained American soldiers also took photos--of Afghan corpses with photos of firefighters killed in the September 11 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center. The sniper has elected to be tried by court martial, instead of pleading guilty to lesser charges.

There are accounts throughout history of soldiers mocking or mutilating bodies of the enemy (see accompanying story), but not in Canada. Don Ethell, a retired Canadian Forces colonel who served with Princess Patricia's troops in 14 peacekeeping tours, said Canadian troops have no history of taking human war trophies. "Canadian soldiers don't degrade the bodies of enemy soldiers," he stressed, adding he fears this country's troops are being Americanized. "That's what differentiates us from other armies. We are from a civilized country and from a humane society, and we as Canadians don't do that."

The colonel appears to be correct. Paul Buteaux, professor of strategic studies at the University of Manitoba, says that while trophy taking is as old as war itself, Canadian soldiers--notwithstanding their impressive war records--have little history of mutilating or interfering with enemy dead. Carl Christie, an air force historian at the University of Winnipeg, agrees Canadians have been much more civilized than most in conducting war.

Prof. Buteaux says the charges against Master Corp. Perry likely represent the first time any army has prosecuted one of its own for such an act. "In war, you're not supposed to keep a diary or photographs at all," the professor explains. "But most armies turn a blind eye to it, unless it's particularly outrageous. German binoculars, belts, buckles, badges, and sidearms were often kept as souvenirs by soldiers in World War II. Had propping up a dead body and taking a photo of it occurred, as I'm sure it did in World War I and the Korean War, it would be distasteful, but hardly prosecuted."

As for the question of the Americanization of Canadian troops, Robert Buzzanco, professor of military history at the University of Houston and author of the book Masters of War: Military Dissent and Politics in the Vietnam Era, believes Americans have a "more brutal" culture and, therefore, are more willing to revel in the harsh realities of war than Canadians. "Our soldiers cut the ears off the enemy and made necklaces out of them," he points out. "Accounts of soldiers defacing the dead are littered throughout American history. In the U.S, this is accepted warfare. We have a very macho culture."

But attitudes may be changing. Merrel Clubb, professor emeritus of English at the University of Montana who served as a naval officer in the Second World War, thinks the younger generation has forgotten war is fierce and vicious. "My generation burned, bombed, and otherwise destroyed the lives of countless, often innocent, people caught up in a total war all over the world," he says. "We destroyed hospitals, killed and mistreated civilians, tossed hand grenades into houses and cellars--just in case--where civilians as well as soldiers might be hiding."

Desmond Morton, military historian at McGill University, maintains Canadians would be "disgusted" by such behaviour. "It's not something a soldier would want to boast about or record," he says. Ben Greenhous, 71, a retired national defence officer, agrees. "I know of Canadians killing prisoners, but not about them messing around with bodies," he says. "It's a matter of discipline. There persists some macho idea that defiling a corpse is somehow a brave thing to do. But inflicting indignities on the dead doesn't help you win the war."
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Anonymous
09-25-2002, 03:55 PM
Another example of total green army BS! SASR ran into similar allegations in the early days of Timor. Federal police investigation, Army CIB investigation... the whole nine yards. Nothing was ever proven but morale @ Swanbourne took a bloody nose dive!

Yours in disgust

Chopper

Anonymous
09-25-2002, 04:21 PM
well, look at how people reacted when the somali's did it to our US guys when they dragged their bodies through the street and jumped up and down on them. nobody likes it when the dead guys are from your country. the real question is, what's in the handbook for canadian soldiers for their code of conduct. if it says not to do such things, then he's obviously breaking the rules.

Anonymous
09-25-2002, 07:28 PM
Not at all Hood- we are talking about taking pictures of enemy dead, we are not talking about dragging naked bodies through the streets and tearing the body into it's component parts (that's the bit you didn't see on CNN). Any soldier, not matter what nationality, who carries out acts like those Somali militia/civies should face court martial and be jailed for a very very long time. But taking photos of the enemy dead??? Not exactly in the same league IMHO.

Regards

Chopper

hood
09-25-2002, 10:12 PM
yeah but really.. they made it look like he was smoking a canadian cigarette.. that's humiliation beyond the norm. :lol:

reverence
06-22-2003, 07:03 AM
Theres a well known book about Australias involvement in Vietnam title'Ashes of Vietnam" One of the photos it contains shows the disgusted look of Vietnamese children as VC bodies are dragged through the street of their village behind an APC as a warning to communist sympathisers.
I dont condemn nor condone it but every country on this planet has at some stage in its history had its soldiers mistreat bodies(either officially or by some pissed of digger who's just lost his mate and needs to vent)The guy who nails my pelt on ops has earned the right to skite a bit he's worked for it-hell I'd even be a bit insulted if he didn't consider me a trophy.

martinexsquaddie
06-22-2003, 09:12 AM
I remember My unit had a serious discussion about what warcrime to commit and decided on killing some prisoners of war and then Eating them as
cannabilism isn't against the geneva convention:)
an SOF article said the sniper was also charged with telling the Parde to f**k Off seems like bull**** to me

Seraphim
06-22-2003, 11:08 AM
Like Evan said in Canadian Airborne Regiment Photos

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2269

"Sadly this unit was disbanded due to the actions of a few members during our SOmalia mission"

The guys in Somalia had trouble with people sneaking into their base and stealing stuff, the soldiers kept getting mixed orders on how to deal with people stealing. Eventually they caught one, beat the crap out of him and took pictures of it. The guy eventually died of his injurys. I cant remember exactly what happen to the soldiers who did it though.

RealUltimatePower
06-24-2003, 11:02 AM
Yea one of them was made into a scapegoat and the other two got off I think. But the crap ass thing about that whole fiasco was that the unit was disbanded in 95 when the incident happened in 93. Originally they were just going to comb through the ranks and weed out those who had racist ideas and such. None of the generals thought it wise to disband a whole regiment for the actions of a few. And the whole reorganizing process worked, by 95 the unit was redone and very disciplined. But some video footage of the same three guys surfaced in the media that year. It showed them making racist comments or something. A buncha people got pissed off and Cretein took this opprotunity to get rid of the unit. Looks like all he wanted was to downsize the forces further and save money like he has been all along.

EvanL
06-03-2005, 06:32 PM
This was a pretty good discussion i remember.
Just browsing and came upon it.

Resevoir Hogs
06-03-2005, 06:34 PM
Airborne regiment needs to come bak. Its good for the economy and for peepole!

Sir Zach of R.
06-03-2005, 06:57 PM
Great, now I miss Chops. :(

Erik2a4
06-03-2005, 07:42 PM
War is violent. It's also personal. I wonder if any of the professors or experts cited have experienced that?

Hope to see that sniper in the US Army.

Charlie 356
06-03-2005, 07:52 PM
The thing I can't understand is why the Canadian authorities feel that their soldier was "americanized." To me, that seems like rather than taking complete responsibility for their soldier's actions, the Canadians are simply scapegoating the American military, as though we condone mistreatment of war dead.

Wouldn't someone say "well, we just didn't train him well enough to respect the fallen?" No, instead he's apparently been brainwashed to act like Americans. Give me a break. The Canadians making policy don't seem to be in tune with the Canadians actually serving. Soldiers are going to act like soldiers, no matter where they come from. Who is to say that this particular fellow didn't feel just as strongly about the war on terror as his American counterparts, or his German counterparts, or his French counterparts, or any member of a country that is currently fighting in the war. If a country feels that their men and women aren't performing to their particular standard, then they need to work it out on their own, not pawn off the behavior as a result of another country's influence, especially if that country is a very vital ally.

Officers in the military take full responsibility for everyone under their command, regardless of who may be involved. The buck stops with them. Personally, I think they should let this guy off the hook for such a BS charge, but if they're going to nail him to the wall, then they should keep it to themselves and not include anyone else. That is just my opinion, so let the criticism ensue.

As for Canada being a civilized country, it is. But so is America.

EvanL
06-03-2005, 07:55 PM
I dont believe anywhere in the article it makes it seem like their blaming the soldiers actions on the americans.
In Canada we know for well that soldiers make mistakes and do ****ed up things under tense situations. After all, it was our guys involved in the Somalia scandal.

Charlie 356
06-03-2005, 08:44 PM
"Canadian soldiers don't degrade the bodies of enemy soldiers," he stressed, adding he fears this country's troops are being Americanized. "That's what differentiates us from other armies. We are from a civilized country and from a humane society, and we as Canadians don't do that."

Apparently, this fellow thinks that Canadian troops are becoming more like Americans. Does that mean better equipped, or more ruthless. Clarification would be helpful. If it is the latter, I would have to disagree.

EvanL
06-03-2005, 09:11 PM
"Canadian soldiers don't degrade the bodies of enemy soldiers," he stressed, adding he fears this country's troops are being Americanized. "That's what differentiates us from other armies. We are from a civilized country and from a humane society, and we as Canadians don't do that."

Apparently, this fellow thinks that Canadian troops are becoming more like Americans. Does that mean better equipped, or more ruthless. Clarification would be helpful. If it is the latter, I would have to disagree.
Well id hope that your not planning on turning this into a ****slinging conest?
Because the original discussion didnt even bother to bring that point up.
So go ahead and argue about it. You'll just be ruining a good discussion.

jmorische
06-03-2005, 09:54 PM
One author does not speak for Canada (well not for me at any rate.) Let's cut the ****-slinging before it starts, as it's always the ignorant loud-mouths who start that crap. Call the authours comments careless and out-of-place.

Taking pictures that degrade the dead is definitely on the list of bad ideas, but let the court martial deal with the MCpl. Our old OPS WO trained this guy, he is a solid troop by all accounts. There were a few other accusations levelled at Canadian snipers during OP ANACONDA regarding alleged executions that were eventually disproven. In one specific incident an American MED O inspecting enemy dead believed that the only way a particular guys head could have come apart was through a close range execution. After an investigation (and the realization that a newer .50 cal rifle was used) the matter was disposed of. This instance may be somewhat different, but will still give the troop the opportuity to respond.

The benefit of our repsective military systems (Canadian and American) is that we both have justice systems to hear these allegations and ensure a reasonable standard of conduct by our troops. That's not a bad thing no matter which way you cut it. Doing the right thing when you are being called upon to do a job that so few could ever understand let alone do is what makes us professionals rather than thugs. I think it's important to not lose sight of this.

When the facts come out I hope level heads prevail. If he is found guilty and the facts are weighed against his service record, and level of performance I would hope that he's at least given the sense to keep all copies of the pictures next time.

4nzix
06-03-2005, 11:22 PM
Wait a minute, wait a minute........













Canada has an army?????? WTF???

Brozozo
06-03-2005, 11:25 PM
Wait a minute, wait a minute........













Canada has an army?????? WTF??? :| :roll:

I love Rachael Leigh Cook
06-03-2005, 11:58 PM
To: All NATO countries engaged in The War Against Terrorism (****), All Branches, All Ranks.

Re: Lessons Learned from OP Enduring Freedom, OP Iraqi Freedom, etc.


Below is a summary of operational lessons learned from the last 4 years of combat experience.

Lesson 1: LEAVE THE STUPID CAMERA AT HOME. If you see some funny **** and decide to take a picture of it it's almost always a BAD idea. As soon as you get back it will be posted at MP.net and the whole war effort will be ****ED UP. Then your life will suck.

Lesson 2: Stop. Taking. Dumbass. Pictures.

Lesson 3: Wear the armoured vests, they stop bullets and might save your life.


That's all, there was some other stuff but it's not really all that important by comparison.




Sincerely,
ILRLC