Obama To Announce Two Year Federal Employee Pay Freeze

[beNder]

As far as symbolic moves towards budget cutting go, this is a decent one... Obama is set to announce a pay freeze for federal employees. The details aren't clear. No word yet on how long the freeze will last, or if there will be exceptions.

This is an idea that's been suggested for awhile.

Update: According to headlines, the freeze will go for two years, and is expected to save the government a total of $28 billion. Not bad.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/federal-pay-freeze-2010-11#ixzz16gxVVUaA

[Jobu]

This is not good news.
The number of federal employees being paid $150k+ per year has doubled since Obama took office. Now a "freeze" will lock that into place.

We need cuts, not freezes.

[LineDoggie]

We'll likely see a Pay freeze in Milpay as well before this is done.

Gates is already formulating Tricare increases. Which by the way if your at Ft. Drum you know there is no Army Hospital so if your shot on a range, or your kid breaks his arm you go to Samaritan Medical Center in Watertown. Clinton already threw the retirees aged 65 older into Medicare back in 98-99
SOURCE:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/us/29tricare.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss

[Chulo]

This is not good news.
The number of federal employees being paid $150k+ per year has doubled since Obama took office. Now a "freeze" will lock that into place.

We need cuts, not freezes.
Exactly... its the same as when stores hike the price 50% and then advertise a 25% discount.

[cone256]

Not that I'm one of the highly paid federal employees I'm only a GS-07, but here's the reason why they have "doubled" and trust me I'm not a fan of Obama so please don't take it like that.

The government is moving away from paying money out to contractors, even here in my state. So in order to make up for the work that these contractors are/were doing, they are replacing them with federal civilians. This is to have better oversight on their productivity and on the people that are hired. Now are outright cuts and pay freezes necessary, sure but how about we get rid of all the dead weight employees that are around, I certainly know a few

[RICHICOQUI]

Obama freeze the pay after he raise the pay!!

[Laconian]

Not that I'm one of the highly paid federal employees I'm only a GS-07, but here's the reason why they have "doubled" and trust me I'm not a fan of Obama so please don't take it like that.

The government is moving away from paying money out to contractors, even here in my state. So in order to make up for the work that these contractors are/were doing, they are replacing them with federal civilians. This is to have better oversight on their productivity and on the people that are hired. Now are outright cuts and pay freezes necessary, sure but how about we get rid of all the dead weight employees that are around, I certainly know a few

Yeah, good luck with that. Federal rules/regulations make it very difficult to fire a Federal civilian employee. Unions are already squawking this is bad for the economy, they could cut mid/senior level pay by 5-10% (GS 13s and up) and people would still be making great money. The Fed scales were created to attract the best and brightest to Federal service and to keep pace with the money folks would make in the private sector. But the Fed scale has outpaced the private sector and now it needs to be brought back in line.

[Extobulite]

Yeah, good luck with that. Federal rules/regulations make it very difficult to fire a Federal civilian employee. Unions are already squawking this is bad for the economy, they could cut mid/senior level pay by 5-10% (GS 13s and up) and people would still be making great money. The Fed scales were created to attract the best and brightest to Federal service and to keep pace with the money folks would make in the private sector. But the Fed scale has outpaced the private sector and now it needs to be brought back in line.


Besides senless money spending thats been going on for the past 10 years, "dead weight" employees is one of the major factors contributing to negative budget. Ive personally seen dead weights and actually didnt get fully hired because of recent workforce cuts. I wont say where i worked but im pretty sure it applies to all civilian federal jobs: 70% of them do no work or do the very minimal, because by contract there is no quota that they have to uphold, and as long as it LOOKS like youre are working no one can accuse you of not working becuase it will be a very long, expensive and risky process of proving that an individual is not doing any work. While I and others, as temps, were doing 3 or 4 times as much work as the regulars, we still did not get permanent positions becuase of recent cuts.
So in reality when we couldve been hired for a slightly lower rate and do 3 times the amount of work that is being done now, they (Fed workplace) were stuck with useless dead weight because of a contract and its legal reprocutions. I mean what kind of a fkn joke is that? Isnt it time to change these retarded contracts, the time couldnt have been better.

[Ordie]

Update: According to headlines, the freeze will go for two years, and is expected to save the government a total of $28 billion. Not bad.

It's peanuts and for show.

The real cuts are in defense.

[Mr.Armageddon]

Well that's a good way to gain popularity.....

[GrinchWSLG]

This is not good news.
The number of federal employees being paid $150k+ per year has doubled since Obama took office. Now a "freeze" will lock that into place.

We need cuts, not freezes.

Fed Employees getting paid that amount are generally the management types, who are always looking out for each other. Expect them to not only not get cuts, but find a way around this pay freeze. The ones really getting hurt are the actual working Federal work force who keep this country running despite the idiocy from above. Unfortunately the public loves the idea of government employees getting paid less, just because they only think of Congressmen or IRS employees. So we take the hit for a few popularity points for the next election.

[Roaming East]

so long as its step 1.
step 2 should be REDUCE the amount of fvckers employed by the Fed

[Ordie]

so long as its step 1.
step 2 should be REDUCE the amount of fvckers employed by the Fed

Including the military?

[Jobu]

Fed Employees getting paid that amount are generally the management types, who are always looking out for each other. Expect them to not only not get cuts, but find a way around this pay freeze. The ones really getting hurt are the actual working Federal work force who keep this country running despite the idiocy from above. Unfortunately the public loves the idea of government employees getting paid less, just because they only think of Congressmen or IRS employees. So we take the hit for a few popularity points for the next election.

Nah don't be mistaken, we hate you lot too.

[LineDoggie]

It's peanuts and for show.

The real cuts are in defense.Name the cuts

[Fat Lazy American]

This is not good news.
The number of federal employees being paid $150k+ per year has doubled since Obama took office.

That's misleading. Upper step 15s in DC just crossed over 150k. That would have happened no matter who was in office. It's not like there's been a huge influx of federal employees making over 150k out of nowhere -- people just got inflation-based raises from (about) 148k to 155k since he's been office. (And the GS ceiling is 155k. So while the number of federal employees making more than 150k has just doubled, the number of federal employees making more than 160k has remained more or less constant, and the number of federal employees making less than 155k but more than, say, 150, has probably gone down).

[West Texican]

I've worked for the government for just short of a year now with the VHA. We were informed today that the wage freeze will have little affect on us. Step pay raises will continue under the current pay scale.

[deagle]

i don't necessarily agree with freezes, cuts should be first (either in pay or in personnel), but it might have come down to freezes to stop the bleeding

[Yeti2424]

I've worked for the government for just short of a year now with the VHA. We were informed today that the wage freeze will have little affect on us. Step pay raises will continue under the current pay scale.

That what I heard from a friend. No one seems to be mentioning this.

[Laconian]

It's peanuts and for show.

The real cuts are in defense.

There are better cuts than the military. Department of Education and Housing and Urban Development should get whacked right off the bat. Both of those problems should be handled by the respective states.


That's misleading. Upper step 15s in DC just crossed over 150k. That would have happened no matter who was in office. It's not like there's been a huge influx of federal employees making over 150k out of nowhere -- people just got inflation-based raises from (about) 148k to 155k since he's been office. (And the GS ceiling is 155k. So while the number of federal employees making more than 150k has just doubled, the number of federal employees making more than 160k has remained more or less constant, and the number of federal employees making less than 155k but more than, say, 150, has probably gone down).

Trouble is there are a lot of 15s, some do some real work, no doubt, but I know of scores of 15s that are taking up space and not doing the work of a mid-to senior level manager.


I've worked for the government for just short of a year now with the VHA. We were informed today that the wage freeze will have little affect on us. Step pay raises will continue under the current pay scale.

The freeze will effect pay raises (the .9 % that was previously approved by Congress), however grade promotions and automatic w/i grade step increases will not be affected. So if you are due for an automatic grade increase (from GS 5 to GS7) because of the way your job series is established then you will get your grade increase (as long as you meet the performance requirements). Likewise if you are supposed to get an in-grade step increase (from say GS13, Step 1 to Step 2 on your anniversary date) then those will take place. Those are not pay raises those are promotions.

[atl]

It's peanuts and for show.

The real cuts are in defense.

Really? I hate to feed the bitch but come on. The US economy lives off DOD, not welfare. R+D from DOD gave you the slate to be a interweb whore. AL Gore invented it while you enjoy your popeye's chicken using it.

Don't cut defense but do cut welfare and we"ll be all right. Your state is a good example of how not to do it.

[beNder]

Really? I hate to feed the bitch but come on. The US economy lives off DOD, not welfare. R+D from DOD gave you the slate to be a interweb whore. AL Gore invented it while you enjoy your popeye's chicken using it.

Don't cut defense but do cut welfare and we"ll be all right. Your state is a good example of how not to do it.

Need to find a balance. You start cutting off all those that have little to nothing then you will have a even larger crime problem. It's much cheaper to give someone welfare than house them in prison.

Back on topic, like all organizations, there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

[Reaper171]

there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

Oh yeah... I am .mil and work with a crap load of .gov types... we do the same thing, except there are 3 of them doing what I do in one 12 hour shift. Not only that but there are two bosses over them and I am not ****ting you that 1 boss is there just to tell the other boss to tell the others something.

[GrinchWSLG]

Oh yeah... I am .mil and work with a crap load of .gov types... we do the same thing, except there are 3 of them doing what I do in one 12 hour shift. Not only that but there are two bosses over them and I am not ****ting you that 1 boss is there just to tell the other boss to tell the others something.

Yeah, and it takes an entire chain of command to let a KC-135 land after a 12 hour mission because somebody saw a bird flying over the runway. The military is no better then the civilian side.

My primary concern is the FAA is currently 1 year into a contract negotiated 3 year pay band adjustment, since we had a pay freeze already, this is to get us back to where we should be. We're all waiting to see how this will effect us, hopefully not much. Kind of looking forward to that raise in January...

[atl]

Need to find a balance. You start cutting off all those that have little to nothing then you will have a even larger crime problem. It's much cheaper to give someone welfare than house them in prison.

Back on topic, like all organizations, there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

Back to topic indeed. Do people on upper GS levels deserve raises? Nope. You cannot claim that they do. Their payscale should be based like any other corp. Lackluster performance equals no bonus. You deliver or you don't.
I agree there are too many "chiefs" (racist). That's about it on our agreement.
There is a strong disconnect between rainbows and reality around here.
I mainly lurk around here and have only recently become active on this forum. Seems that giving babies their bottle is an acceptable form of govt. Criminals need tvs and support groups.
Sad and weak.
Grow a pair and get off the govt teat. Softsides should not become the norm.
Sissys

[beNder]

Chiefs is racists? lol, how PC can one get now days.

I work everyday like many people but there is a certain percent of the population that will not and certain percent do not because of alcohol/drug addiction/mental problems. Lots of people out there that can't even read or write well enough to work at McD's. I'm not making excuses for them that is just life. I worked for a number of years in an area of Jax that you would not walk around at night. They are not the stereotype that you always here that they drive new Cadillac's, that just some old redneck story that is repeated day after day in the local bar.

("they" as in people in HUD slums, regardless of color)

Back on topic. The Feds pay well because they want to attract good people for employment. I am sure that there is a percentage that can be cut like any public employer. They could also cut lots of contractors that they hired during the last admin to review intelligence. From what I have read, there are so many new agencies and private contractors in intel that they are tripping over one another. And they blame this admin for expanding the Government. Laughable.

[Ordie]

There are better cuts than the military. Department of Education and Housing and Urban Development should get whacked right off the bat. Both of those problems should be handled by the respective states.

Education and Social services only account 7% of the discretionary budget.

Department of Defense accounts 58% of the discretionary budget which is too fat in my opinion.

[Roaming East]

Including the military?

absolutely. Since im a zoomie lets start with that side of the house. Cut F22 funding, stop production on the bird. Equip one squadron with F-22's with all the bells and whistles and let IT be the door kicking squadron. Let the other 90% of the F-22s fly without the expensive as hell RAM coating and move on with life with virtually no loss in capability.
Get USAF personnel numbers back in line with congressional numbers. Cut the fat by RIF'ing 20% of the SNCO and senior officer weight. We got too many Chiefs and SMSGTs sitting around pounding sand chewing up time to hit that magic '30 year' mark. same with the officer corps.

Stop ****ing around with uniforms. Just co-opt whatever the army gets, toss some air force tapes on it and move on. What BDU/ABU/BS we are going to wear should NOT be taking up the front page of Air Force Times for 6 years in a row.

[Extobulite]

Having a bloated defense budget while theres no economic recovery in sight, together with outsdanding national debt and negative trade balance, is very irrational because in 5 - 10 years, there will be literally nothing to defend. Anyway, kind of pointless to argue this point on a military forum.

[McFire]

The military can close more bases in California and save tons of money by relocating to cheaper states. Of course then California would further go down the toilet.

[ABN MP]

I love how Barry has no problem freezing our pay because of the defecit.

On the other hand he has no problem going to India at a cost of $200 million a day. Or all the stumping he did for Democrats during the elections at taxpayer cost. The people that this is going to hurt the most is the entry level and mid-career employees who are working in DC. It is expensive and even with their salary not that easy to get by there.

I am sure we will be announcing more US Aid to Pakistan or to some other country while our pay has been frozen also.

[Brasi]

States like Florida, Texas and California have suckled on the tit of the federal government long enough when it comes to having military bases. Another BRAC study should be conducted just to see what alternatives there are.

1.) Cut the F-35 program, and purchase reduced amounts of F-22's.
2.) Halt all ship/submarine building except carriers currently under construction.
3.) Retire two of the oldest carriers (and supporting fleets) Keep air wings active but just shore base them.

Those are some of the big ticket items, but there are more out there that could either be eliminated or shelved for several years. Every part of government should feel the pinch of cuts.

[Dominique]

I love how Barry has no problem freezing our pay because of the defecit.

On the other hand he has no problem going to India at a cost of $200 million a day. Or all the stumping he did for Democrats during the elections at taxpayer cost. The people that this is going to hurt the most is the entry level and mid-career employees who are working in DC. It is expensive and even with their salary not that easy to get by there.

I am sure we will be announcing more US Aid to Pakistan or to some other country while our pay has been frozen also.

I hate to break it to you, but any President, former President, or VP, that's out stumping for his party, is doing it on the taxpayer's dime. All that protection they have is paid for by the taxpayer. While I don't like it, let's not pretend that President Obama is the only one to do it. And as far as a pay freeze goes, we're in debt up to out eye balls, and sinking fast, if the budget is going to be cut, everyone's going to have to take a hit, whether they like it or not. You can't cry about the budget, and then not want to see the agency you work for get hit. And when it comes to military spending, anyone who's ever been in the military can tell you there's a sh8t load of money that could be cut.

[Jobu]

That's misleading. Upper step 15s in DC just crossed over 150k. That would have happened no matter who was in office. It's not like there's been a huge influx of federal employees making over 150k out of nowhere -- people just got inflation-based raises from (about) 148k to 155k since he's been office. (And the GS ceiling is 155k. So while the number of federal employees making more than 150k has just doubled, the number of federal employees making more than 160k has remained more or less constant, and the number of federal employees making less than 155k but more than, say, 150, has probably gone down).

Sorry but you are quite wrong.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-11-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-12-10-federal-pay-salaries_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

[LS1 Miata]

I hate to break it to you, but any President, former President, or VP, that's out stumping for his party, is doing it on the taxpayer's dime. All that protection they have is paid for by the taxpayer. While I don't like it, let's not pretend that President Obama is the only one to do it. And as far as a pay freeze goes, we're in debt up to out eye balls, and sinking fast, if the budget is going to be cut, everyone's going to have to take a hit, whether they like it or not. You can't cry about the budget, and then not want to see the agency you work for get hit. And when it comes to military spending, anyone who's ever been in the military can tell you there's a sh8t load of money that could be cut.

Best post in the thread.

[LineDoggie]

Hoyer: Military should also see pay freeze


The second-ranking House Democrat said Monday that President Obama’s move to freeze the pay of civilian federal employees should also be extended to military personnel.

Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said including the military would have increased savings and add “an element of fairness." He made the comments in a statement about he president’s announcement of a two-year pay freeze.
“While I appreciate that the president reduced the length of his proposed pay freeze from three to two years,” Hoyer said in a statement, “it would have produced significantly more savings had that sacrifice been shared between federal civilian and military personnel — with a strong exception for the members of our military and civilian employees risking their lives on our behalf in Afghanistan, Iraq, and anywhere else they are serving in harm's way.”

SOURCE:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/130933-hoyer-military-should-also-see-pay-freeze


I actually agree in principle that if we are freezing retiree/SS COLA and Fed Employees that Mil pay could stand the 2 years. Reagan did it in 1983. However, Hoyers idea that those deployed would still have it is a DFAS Nightmare.

[beNder]

Freeze military COLA yes.

But still give hazardous duty pay for those in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[LineDoggie]

Freeze military COLA yes.

But still give hazardous duty pay for those in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Combat Pay is still in his plan I dont think he meant cut that, but DFAS would have to track each Joe now for Cola While in theater among all the other things DFAS does and does half assed now.
US Army at least is General officer heavy, we dont need a 1 star at PEO Soldier checking ACU crotch bar tacking, there is rich fat to cut from that. Nor do we need so many E-9's on the personnel side of the house.



Nett Warrior? can it

[ABN MP]

If you are going to Freeze pay then do it across the board. You shouldn't pick and choose who gets the freeze. Don't touch the military pay for Enlisted because they need the raise.
But how do you justify not freezing members of Congress or their staffs, defense contractors (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_pay_freeze#), postal workers or federal court judges and workers.
The US Postal system has been in the black for years but we are still going to give them a raise. I am glad that members of Congress did not give themselves a raise. I a sure they are barely making it a $174,000 a year.

But if you also want to look at cutting money take away Hazard pay for guys in non-hazard zones. Kosovo, Africa, Quatar, UAE, and Krgystan.

[Fat Lazy American]

Sorry but you are quite wrong.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-11-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-12-10-federal-pay-salaries_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Nothing in either of those articles refute what I just said.



Defense Department civilian employees earning $150,000 or more increased from 1,868 in December 2007 to 10,100 in June 2009, the most recent figure available.


If you don't think that's the sound of stepped out 15s crossing the 150k threshold, you've definitely never been to Arlington. (And sure, some of it is new hires making a lot of money, some of it is an increased numbers of SESs, but the bulk of that figure in particular is definitely the upper step 15s.)

And note I said nothing about whether any of these people deserve it. (You will note another thing that shows up heavily, BTW, is the military hospitals and the VA going on a hiring spree.)

[Jobu]

Nothing in either of those articles refute what I just said.



If you don't think that's the sound of stepped out 15s crossing the 150k threshold, you've definitely never been to Arlington. (And sure, some of it is new hires making a lot of money, some of it is an increased numbers of SESs, but the bulk of that figure in particular is definitely the upper step 15s.)

And note I said nothing about whether any of these people deserve it. (You will note another thing that shows up heavily, BTW, is the military hospitals and the VA going on a hiring spree.)


Unless things have radically changed over the last few years, it would take a GS15 close to six years to go from step 7 to step 9 and therefore from 148k to 155k in Arlington. How did Obama manage to make it happen in 12 months? Did they hand out QSI's to everyone? It wasn't just a large increase of those making over $150k it was doubled.

[Ordie]

If anything, the military should lead by example, and initiate cost cutting efforts. One goal the DOD should consider is to make every base (Domestic and overseas) as self suffiecient possible through alternative energy and conservation.

Not only this will save money but lives as well.

How many times Americans will risk thier lives protecting convoys transporting fuel for generators that provide energy for air conditioners and computers?

[Jobu]

The first cost-cutting step should be to cut pay and jobs. A freeze does nothing but lock the increases into place. The federal government has gone on a colossal hiring spree over the last few years. It needs to be reversed.

[Ordie]

The first cost-cutting step should be to cut pay and jobs.

Let's close Ft. Hood and do away with tanks. They are gas guzzlers anyway.

[Jobu]

Let's close Ft. Hood and do away with tanks. They are gas guzzlers anyway.

22,000 TSA kiddie touchers would be a better start.

[Fat Lazy American]

Unless things have radically changed over the last few years, it would take a GS15 close to six years to go from step 7 to step 9 and therefore from 148k to 155k in Arlington. How did Obama manage to make it happen in 12 months? Did they hand out QSI's to everyone? It wasn't just a large increase of those making over $150k it was doubled.

You're misinterpreting what I said. I'm not suggesting anyone got promoted to step 9 (though many did, of course). I'm saying people who were ALREADY step 9+ 15s in DC got pay raises that took them from 143471 in 2007 to 155500 this year, passing 150k in 2009. (Now step 8s and 7s are also above 150k, but the large numbers come from the step 9s.)
DOD and DOJ in particular are jampacked with people in DC at the bottom right corner of the GS chart. Whatever salary step 9+ GS 15s are making in DC is going to be a very, very common salary in the federal government. Note that you also had the upper step 15s in California and New York crossing 150k at around the same time. Note that they're also hitting the paycap now, meaning more and more government employees will be making the exact same salary -- meaning also that cost of living increases and such are going to move more and more salaries in lock step over abritrary lines.

[Jobu]

You're misinterpreting what I said. I'm not suggesting anyone got promoted to step 9 (though many did, of course). I'm saying people who were ALREADY step 9+ 15s in DC got pay raises that took them from 143471 in 2007 to 155500 this year, passing 150k in 2009. (Now step 8s and 7s are also above 150k, but the large numbers come from the step 9s.)
DOD and DOJ in particular are jampacked with people in DC at the bottom right corner of the GS chart. Whatever salary step 9+ GS 15s are making in DC is going to be a very, very common salary in the federal government. Note that you also had the upper step 15s in California and New York crossing 150k at around the same time. Note that they're also hitting the paycap now, meaning more and more government employees will be making the exact same salary -- meaning also that cost of living increases and such are going to move more and more salaries in lock step over abritrary lines.

It's still nowhere near enough.

Consider these staggering numbers for federal employees making $150K+

2005 - ~7,000
2009 - ~41,000
2010 - ~82,000

Only a hiring spree combined with significant raises can do that.

[Jobu]

Here's a little addition to the argument:

The federal government pays an average of 20% more than private firms for comparable occupations.
That's 2 million people being paid 20% more than their counterparts who by the way are footing the bill.

What does that up to? $50 billion? $100 billion of waste every year?

[MN_Air]

Damn, people are never happy. First, Obama shouldn't spend so much, now he stops pay raises, and gets yelled at for that too. Why would anyone want to be president if all you have is a group of naysayers at everything you do?

[Zoomie]

Damn, people are never happy. First, Obama shouldn't spend so much, now he stops pay raises, and gets yelled at for that too. Why would anyone want to be president if all you have is a group of naysayers at everything you do?
Maybe because the pay cuts do nothing to stop the bleeding?

[MN_Air]

Maybe because the pay cuts do nothing to stop the bleeding?


Tell me, if I stop giving you a raise, will I spend less money?

Isn't that starting to help "stop the bleeding?"

[Zoomie]

Tell me, if I stop giving you a raise, will I spend less money?

Isn't that starting to help "stop the bleeding?"
No, because you don't understand that if we can't afford to pay them before, what is keeping them and the current, unsustainable amount going to do?

[Jobu]

Tell me, if I stop giving you a raise, will I spend less money?

Isn't that starting to help "stop the bleeding?"



If I raise your electric bill and then freeze those rates into place, does it help you?

[MN_Air]

If you keep it from going up more, yes, it does help me.

[Jobu]

If you keep it from going up more, yes, it does help me.

Salesmen must love you.

[MN_Air]

Salesmen must love you.

Would you rather Obama not have a pay freeze at all?

[Navman]

Would you rather Obama not have a pay freeze at all?

Freezing pay doesn't really solve the problem.

[Jobu]

Would you rather Obama not have a pay freeze at all?

See post #43.

[McFire]

There is no actual "pay freeze". The only freeze is only on inflation (COLA) adjustments overall. Hiring is not frozen. Step promotions (ie - raises) are not affected. Operating budgets for each department are not affected. In addition, the "freeze" does not apply to the executive branch of government or military. So essentially, uh-bama's "pay freeze" is meaningless.

A two year pay freeze to me means that your pay is frozen, and you will receive the exact same paycheck for the next two years. I guess uh-bama has a different idea of what a pay freeze is.

[Corrupt]

No, because you don't understand that if we can't afford to pay them before, what is keeping them and the current, unsustainable amount going to do?

Would you rather he announced a pay cut?