A-10's rumor???

[Seiyuuki]

Is there any truth to the rumor that the GAU-8A 30mm cannon on the A-10, when fire, generate more thrust, force, whatever than the A-10's main engines?

[SEALteamVBSS]

Actually it is true, it creates more thrust than one of the A-10's engines, thats why they go full power and into a dive on the gun run, and fire no longer than 1-2 seconds b/c the barrel will melt. I wondered about this also, until last year when I went to the EAA Airventure in Oshkosh, Wisconsin and talked to a few of the A-10 Pilots. They said it creates around 10,000lbs of thrust. I hope I helped ya out a lil bit.

[Schuster]

And they want to retire these things?

[James]

They aren't sexy enough for the Air Force. I think the A-10 fleet should be upgraded and given to the Marine Corps.

[bloodzy]

arent sexy? they are a bueatiful plane, i love em to bits, i agree they should be upgraded a bit but still kept in active service

[Ratamacue]

The Marines probably wouldn't want them since the A10 can't operate from a sea-based platform like the Harrier or Hornet.

[Smoothie104]

http://www.a-10.org/photos/photos2.asp


20, yes 20 pages of warthog pics

[BMF]

to kill the rumors, if you were at an air force base, and they happened to have a chart showing the projected retirement of various aircraft in inventory, the A 10 would outlast everything out there. there are no plans whatsoever to retire it. in fact the air force is adding to the A 10 force by resurrecting old A 10's from the boneyard. I had the chance to see the A 10 do CAS along with F16's. the A 10 is the best air-mud platform out there, and i'm very glad it'll be covering me.

[Schuster]

http://www.boomspeed.com/thespade/Thunderbolt.jpg

oh yeah me with the Warthog at abbostford 2003.. after getting rained on :cantbeli: i'd like to kick that stupid little kid in the fronts ass for getting in my picture.

[Duke]

VBSS and Sei,
You're confusing thurst ratio and force. If that Gat had the same thrust as the powerplant, the front end of the A10 would most likely explode.
In ratio, the thrust caused by the cartidge on the round(change in velocity/change in distance x massxg) of the Gat round may exceed the powerplants thurst on the jet. But the force of powerplant or its ability to do work far exceeds the Gat round.

[buckeyedoc]

Technically, the A-10's cannon has enough force to stop the aircraft if the barrel could handle the heat.

[James]

They aren't sexy enough for the Air Force. I think the A-10 fleet should be upgraded and given to the Marine Corps.

Sexy - meaning fast and high tech. Don't get me wrong, I think they're great.

Upgraded - fix them up so they can be launched from carriers.

I hope that clears things up.

[budanski]

oh yeah me with the Warthog at abbostford 2003.. after getting rained on :cantbeli: i'd like to kick that stupid little kid in the fronts ass for getting in my picture.

http://www.noisedesignlab.com/buddy/thunderbolt.jpg

[Ratamacue]

Nice photoshop job, Budanski. ;)

[Herrmannek]

oh yeah me with the Warthog at abbostford 2003.. after getting rained on :cantbeli: i'd like to kick that stupid little kid in the fronts ass for getting in my picture.

http://www.noisedesignlab.com/buddy/thunderbolt.jpg

It's not nice talk that way about your younger brother, didn't your mom said it to you?? Just joking :)

[Ichhabe]

Neat job Budanski.. But honestly... We ALL know that there is a little kid there, hehe. :D

[ShotOver]

Yeah, i love the A-10. Got two questions about it though, when did it come into service?
And what countries use it? (Apart from America ofcourse)

[Smoothie104]

The first production A-10 flew in October 1975, and was delivered to the USAF on November 5. Along with the next three aircraft off the line - numbers 7 to 10 of the originally planned DT & E batch - it joined the test program at Edwards AFB, but subsequent aircraft, starting in March 1976, were delivered to the first operational unit. This was the 333rd Tactical Fighter Training Squadron (333 TFTS), which had been designated as the first A-10 squadron in November 1974; part of the 354th Tactical Fighter Training Wing, it was based at Davis-Monthan AFB, Arizona.


All about the Gun


http://members.aol.com/Stravonski/private/gun.html

[Schuster]

oh yeah me with the Warthog at abbostford 2003.. after getting rained on :cantbeli: i'd like to kick that stupid little kid in the fronts ass for getting in my picture.

http://www.noisedesignlab.com/buddy/thunderbolt.jpg

*Right Click
*Save Picture As

[Duke]

Just trying to steer these guys in the right path, but for kp...

Technically, the A-10's cannon has enough force to stop the aircraft if the barrel could handle the heat.
From Newtonian physics plug in your numbers and chug.

Force = Mass multiplied by acceleration.
As a vector the Gat round is neither close to the mass of the aircraft nor the acceleration to compensate for the relatively light mass.
But it has possibly an equal thrust/weight ratio.

[Duke]

Just trying to steer these guys in the right path, but for kp...

Technically, the A-10's cannon has enough force to stop the aircraft if the barrel could handle the heat.
From Newtonian physics plug in your numbers and chug.

Force = Mass multiplied by acceleration.
As a vector the Gat round is neither close to the mass of the aircraft nor the acceleration to compensate for the relatively light mass.
But it has possibly an equal thrust/weight ratio.

[GazB]

The Il-2M3 when fitted with 37mm or 45mm cannons often had trouble in flight if the pilots fired too long bursts due to the fierce recoil of these heavy cannon.

At about 9,000lbs of recoil the GAU-8 equals one engine on the A-10, not them both... of course that is equalling one engine at full thrust... if they are both at, say 70% then you might have problems firing long bursts.

The A-10 can fly and land with one engine shut down, so it should not be a serious problem.

When working out recoil you not only count the round fired but also the weight of the gas that pushes it out. Although the projectile of the GAU weighs about 1/5kg the gas would actually push the weight of recoil to about 1.5kg. This equates to about 5 tons of thrust (ie 5,000kg/min) which as you can see is very close to the engine power of one engine.

Would be interesting to put one into the A-10 facing backwards and see if you could take off with recoil alone.

The GAU-8 is an impressive aerial gun but certainly not the most powerful. 75mm guns fitted to German aircraft and American B-25s as well as the 105mm howitzer are significantly more powerful.
There is apparantly an optional 57mm weapon designed for the Su-25 and Su-39, though they seem to prefer adding guided ATGMs which have a longer range.

[Trigger]

I don't recall anyone saying the GAU 8 30mm was the most powerful, just damned effective.

[BMF]

if you ever get a chance to see the A10 do it's thing at a CAS range, you'll understand why i love the things. the GAU-8 tears through targets like you wouldnt believe.

[ibstolidude]

Bbrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Brrrrrrrrrrrr


and sounds cool (ultimately what matters) as well..

Hey Airsofters, when will you guys come up with one? Having seen the other mimic gear, it is only a matter f time to someone has the brains and cash to do it.

[budanski]

Warthog Strafe (http://www.tankkiller.com/video/strafe_hardwood.mpg)
Warthog Strafe 2 (http://www.tankkiller.com/video/strafe_hardwood_2.mpg)
Warthog Strafe 3 (http://www.danshistory.com/a10strafe.avi)
Warthog Territory Videos (http://www.a-10.org/a10-files.html)
Warthog Demo (http://members.shaw.ca/sweat/Video.html)

[springwheat]

The GAU-8 is an impressive aerial gun but certainly not the most powerful. 75mm guns fitted to German aircraft and American B-25s as well as the 105mm howitzer are significantly more powerful.
There is apparantly an optional 57mm weapon designed for the Su-25 and Su-39, though they seem to prefer adding guided ATGMs which have a longer range.Its supposed to be the most powerful forward firing cannon in the US arsenal.

[BMF]

theres' more to the ability of a weapon then just the caliber boys and girls. once you get into those 50-75 mil weapons, muzzle velocity is way down, which means the round won't penetrate as far through armor. the 30mm dep-uranium rounds fired thru the GAU-8 tear right through any tank made, demolishing everything within. the GAU-8 rips any tank it hits to shreds with one burst. the end. plus, a lot of those higher caliber weapons named are just AA/artillery weapons strapped onto an airframe. nice idea, but not as effective as a weapon designed from the beginning to rip through a column of tanks like a shredder through a wheat field. for my money, the A10 is the greatest air-mud aircraft ever fielded by anyone, ever.

drive on

[GazB]

"theres' more to the ability of a weapon then just the caliber boys and girls. once you get into those 50-75 mil weapons, muzzle velocity is way down, which means the round won't penetrate as far through armor."

Umm, no.

The GAU-8 is an impressive weapon but its armour penetration capability is no where near a decent 57mm weapon. The 30mm DU round will only penetrate about 69mm of armour at 500m and 38mm at 1,000m. That is not that impressive. What makes it so useful is that it is used on tanks from behind or from the side and from above so it is attacking the weak side, rear and roof armour of a tank. Even an M1 can be penetrated through its roof by such a weapon.

WWII 57mm anti tank guns could penetrate 150mm at 1,000m... think of a round 5 times heavier than the A-10 round and travelling at a similar speed.
The 105mm gun used in the AC-130 fires a projectile 40 times heavier and only about 400m/s slower. When it fires the whole herc jumps a few feet to the side.

"Its supposed to be the most powerful forward firing cannon in the US arsenal."

Perhaps this gives it away. The 105mm and 40mm guns on the AC-130 fire sideways. If it was more powerful then these weapons then it would be called THE most powerful cannon in the US arsenal.

[He219]

Recoil?

http://www.flugzeugwerk.net/SWBilder/ju87g-1.jpg
Ju87 G-1

...two 37mm VK-3.7 (Flak-18) cannons were installed specifically for anti-tank purposes. The choice was not random because their 37mm shells with tungsten cores could penetrate the armor of most tanks. The gun and magazine were placed in a streamlined container, which was fastened under the wing right behind the gear leg

http://www.strange-mecha.com/german/luftvaffe/me/me262a1au4.JPG
Me262 A-1a/U4

An Me262 fitted with A Rheinmetall BK5 50mm cannon capable of taking out a B-17 Flying Fortress with one shot.

http://www.wehrtechnik.net/wehrtechnik/henschel_hs129medium.jpg
Hs 129B-2 Series:

An interesting weapon was a battery of six 75mm smoothbore recoiless rifles that fired downawrds and to the rear. This system was fired by an automatic magnetic trigger that fired when the aircraft flew over metal objects. This system was reported to be quite successful.


http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/b25-014.jpg
B-25H 75mm Gun Nose:
Close-Up of 75mm Gun Nose with feed doors open.
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/b25-015.jpg)

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/attack/a4/xa26b-4.jpg
Douglas XA-26B 75mm cannon:


But Still...
http://a799.g.akamai.net/3/799/388/182e2eea982c27/www.msnbc.com/news/1821867.jpg
The ‘Stuka’ of the Gulf:

Its 30mm gatling gun can fire 3,900 rounds a minute

Just no comparison......

[California Joe]

A spooky gatlin' gun to watch is the Phalanx, that thing will track anything you tell it to. I watched it track engineers walking around it, then the barrels would start spinning.....Like watching the Alien.

Did the same thing with jets, they sent a couple of Tomcats over from Pax River and that thing would just sit there till they all of a sudden came in range, then it was all moving around and making Terminator noises, barrels spinning like a bastard.

[martinexsquaddie]

might be an impressive gun
BUT unless the operators of the guns start hitting the vechile recognition manuals a bit harder I would want one flying over me
as they say of the Dayglo recognition patches aka "A10 aiming Points" :(

[James]

if you ever get a chance to see the A10 do it's thing at a CAS range, you'll understand why i love the things. the GAU-8 tears through targets like you wouldnt believe.

It is a relentless eating machine. :D

In the Gulf in '95 my company was supported by a couple of A-10s for a combined arms dog and pony show. The A-10s were overhead for perhaps two minutes, eating our targets (500 Gal. drums filled with chopped tires and diesel oil). When they left, there was little left for the tanks, LAVs, and infantry.

[SOG]

so the air force pulled its head out of its ass and isnt replacing the a-10 with the crappy f-16? i watched the hour thing on wings discovery or some such and they said the f-16 was slated to replace the a-10 which confused the hell out of me, then in the gulf war the f16 was having a hell of a time with its replacement job so they brought in some a10's and they rocked so they raided the boneyard for more. it showed one guys a10 shot to **** and it still flew home.

appearantly i heard the airforces reasoning of dropping the a10 was its speed and overall hieghth from which it worked meant more likleyhood of getting shot down which meant bad publicity for the air farce? i have loved this jet since i was a kid and its the only jet i have ever ought a model of. pissed me off to no end watching that show but from what i hear on these boards the air force pulled its collective rectum and is bringing it back? what confused me even more was at the end of the show after showing a hour of the a10 rocking everything in the gulf they said the air force would still retire it and train its duties to other jets. i was a bit speechless. maybe it was the history channel..... all rubbish right?

[BMF]

there was a plan to replace the A10 with a CAS F16C, but that got shredded. in fact, if you look at an air force planning chart, the A10 goes on forever. there is no plan whatsoever to replace the thing at all. I think some wing wiper finally realized that low-tech and slow can be GOOD things in CAS work. In general, the A10's record in the last two gulf wars speaks for itself. as i've said before, it's the greatest air-mud platform ever.

[REMOV]

Recoil?He219, that's nothing compared to the ANT-29 armed with a recoilless... 102mm cannon APK-8. To eliminate the recoil, a weight was ejected by a nozzle fitted below the tail.
http://www.internetelite.ru/aircrafts/ant-29-fightp572-1a.jpg

[SOG]

dope BMF, thanx for the update. nice to know there is some justice, and thats the sound of a GAT.

[He219]

Very impressive 102mm ANT-29, REMOV.


http://digilander.libero.it/avantisavoiait/P108_in_volo_3.JPG


The P.108A --- A for Artigliere --- carried a naval 102mm cannon in the nose, angled slightly downwards. With the recoil system, this gun weighed no less than 1500kg, and a generous 50 rounds of ammunition were provided, adding another ton to the installed weight. Apart from the need for some local strengthening and the compilation of new firing tables, the aircraft was considered a success.

But to cancel recoil, would it not make sense to make use of it?

An interesting weapon was a battery of six 75mm smoothbore recoiless rifles that fired downawrds and to the rear. This system was fired by an automatic magnetic trigger that fired when the aircraft flew over metal objects. This system was reported to be quite successful.

http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW3/hs129-004.jpg
Hs129B

But the BiG Mamma is still the 105mm:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/201-300/walk208_AC-130H/part2/images_Steve_Belanger/ac130-05.jpg

http://www.berkeleyboycott.com/shellzoom.jpg

http://www.berkeleyboycott.com/ac130_56.JPG

[MacvSog]

They would make a nice FAC platform

[arcadian]

It's going to be a real sad day when the A-10s go, I will always remember the A-10 as the aircraft that got me interested in military aviation.
Isn't there even a remote chance that RoK or say Taiwan would be able to purchase these machines when they retire from USAF

[Breakfast in Vegas]

It's going to be a real sad day when the A-10s go, I will always remember the A-10 as the aircraft that got me interested in military aviation.
Isn't there even a remote chance that RoK or say Taiwan would be able to purchase these machines when they retire from USAFThey are going to be in the US military for a couple of decades still. Who knows what options will be available then.. but these airframes will be very, very old at that time.

[HK in AK]

Long term would the AC-130 or a similar variant be considered the replacement - if there could be one?

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Long term would the AC-130 or a similar variant be considered the replacement - if there could be one?In theory the F35 is the replacement, but am absolutely unconvinced on that.

[the_13th_redneck]

Carrier based A-10s... now that would be outstanding

[LineDoggie]

They would make a nice FAC platform

2003? do you normally reply to 7 year old threads?

[California Joe]

Stay gold pony boy.

[Hollis]

The Marines probably wouldn't want them since the A10 can't operate from a sea-based platform like the Harrier or Hornet.


Does not matter, the Marines called dibs on them, they are ours.

[T-5 Killer]

Holy necro post!

[MacvSog]

2003? do you normally reply to 7 year old threads?

????????????????

[Karaahmetoglu]

Turkey was going to buy 50 of these in the early ninities, however that did not happen, and I do not know why. However I do wish that one day it will be within the inventory of the TUAF, it is a very useful to have.

[IconOfEvi]

Actually it is true, it creates more thrust than one of the A-10's engines, thats why they go full power and into a dive on the gun run, and fire no longer than 1-2 seconds b/c the barrel will melt. I wondered about this also, until last year when I went to the EAA Airventure in Oshkosh, Wisconsin and talked to a few of the A-10 Pilots. They said it creates around 10,000lbs of thrust. I hope I helped ya out a lil bit.

I wanna go there :(. I even live in the muhfuggin state.

Also, A-10s are beautiful, IDK why people call them ugly. Then again, I played A-10 II - Silent Thunder as a kid. Awesome music too :)

[mhpr262]

, I played A-10 II - Silent Thunder as a kid. Awesome music too :)
Same here...why, oh why doesn´t it run on a windows xp machine???

[LineDoggie]

????????????????August 16th, 2003