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timetraveller
01-05-2011, 09:49 PM
Is there any footage of the imfamous guns being destroyed by allied aircraft or were they scrapped and materials used for other resources ???

only footage i can find is this of the Dora in a magazine I have .." Armoured " yet it doesn't state how she ended ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxuW8gG8Hfg

Mein Teil
01-05-2011, 09:53 PM
Where do you think all those BMW's, VW's and Mercedes came from?

KoTeMoRe
01-05-2011, 10:00 PM
Biggest Chill Pill Ever.

SmoothieX12
01-05-2011, 10:05 PM
Gustav, which took part in the Siege of Sevastopol was still called...Dora, for some reason.

Kilgor
01-05-2011, 11:15 PM
Very useful for big willy and terror factor warfare, but questionable in terms of cost, protection and manpower deployment.

LineDoggie
01-06-2011, 12:17 AM
Gustav, which took part in the Siege of Sevastopol was still called...Dora, for some reason.
2 different guns


Gustav- 1st produced Named after Gustav Krupp
Dora 2nd produced Named after Senior Krupp Engineers Wife

AusTiger666
01-06-2011, 03:39 AM
Schwerer Gustav (1st Gun to be produced)
The gun appears to have been destroyed to prevent its capture sometime before 22nd April 1945, when its ruins were discovered in a forest 15kms north of Auerbach about 50kms southwest of Chemnitz.

Dora (2nd Gun to be produced)
Dora was broken up before the end of the war, being discovered in the west by American troops some time after finding Schwerer Gustav.

Sorry no photos, Post if you find anything new.

duoya321
01-06-2011, 01:13 PM
It is big guys ,one shoot can kill many enemy. Japan empire amry had big cannoe too,it diameter about 800 milimeter.

Rittmester
01-06-2011, 05:36 PM
It is big guys ,one shoot can kill many enemy. Japan empire amry had big cannoe too,it diameter about 800 milimeter.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WD3fP9D10xA/SKTvyxM9rYI/AAAAAAAABD4/sDb1ujqm5ro/s320/Japan_+july_2008+101dotjpg ;)

Now, here's the ultimate artillery propaganda video ever. If only NATO would make such propaganda today..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyFKbLGGCVY&feature=related

KoTeMoRe
01-06-2011, 07:02 PM
Tactial Viagra...

Pandemonium
01-06-2011, 07:55 PM
If you want to know more I recommend this page: http://anonymous-generaltopics.blogspot.com/search/label/Gustav
Pictures of the destroyed gun are at the end of the page, although no good quality pictures were taken

AusTiger666
01-07-2011, 04:08 AM
If you want to know more I recommend this page: http://anonymous-generaltopics.blogspot.com/search/label/Gustav
Pictures of the destroyed gun are at the end of the page, although no good quality pictures were taken

Thank You :)

zero11
01-07-2011, 10:35 AM
What a waste of time and resources.

Lawndart
01-07-2011, 08:23 PM
What a waste of time and resources.

I've often wondered if the resources that went into guns such as Gustav were the reason Scharnhorst & Gnisenau never got the 15' guns they desperately needed to go from under gunned battlecruisers to top notch battleships

T-5 Killer
01-08-2011, 12:49 AM
I've often wondered if the resources that went into guns such as Gustav were the reason Scharnhorst & Gnisenau never got the 15' guns they desperately needed to go from under gunned battlecruisers to top notch battleships

I thought it was due to the brakes being put on all surface warship development after the loss of the Bismark?

martinexsquaddie
01-08-2011, 08:53 AM
the german surface fleet was never designed to go head to head with the Royal Navy so once war was started the german navy apart from the U boats was mostly irrelevant.
Plan Z the plan to build up the german navy never got going until 1939 and by then it was far too late.
even super duper guns would'nt have saved the battleships

Baked Alaskan
01-09-2011, 03:20 AM
There is a well preserved Krupp built RR Gun at the Aberdeen Proving Ground Ordnance Museum. Along with other displays to see, are many historic armor displays. I would highly recommend a visit if in the area of Maryland, US.

nemowork
01-09-2011, 12:00 PM
What a waste of time and resources.

Pretty much, they took so much time to set up and use (some guns needed as much as a 3000 man labour force to prepare rail lines for resupply and firing) that in the fast moving era of WW2 warfare thay were fairly useless except at set piece sieges like Sevastopol and Anzio.

The Germans had great results from their heavy guns in WW1 destroying forts in Verdun, shelling Paris and the advance through Belgium that they wanted to have more available in case there was a second war. Hitler, being Hitler, didnt want big guns, he wanted the biggest, baddest, most awe-inspiring guns ever and the project and the ambition ran out of control.

Of course thats speaking from hindsight, if Blitzkrieg hadnt worked and the war had settled down into trench warfare they could have been awesomely effective, as it was they turned into a massive white elephant sucking up resources for little payout. Its not like the Nazis were the only ones to fall for it, from the Atomic cannon the Saddams supergun the idea keeps coming back.

I'd have loved to see a complete one though, they've got a Gustave shell in one of the side exhibits at Duxford and thats fairly impressive, the whole gun must have been insanely massive.

Sarig
01-09-2011, 01:05 PM
Are you telling me the nazis had railguns?! p-)

Prowler129
01-09-2011, 08:34 PM
Gustav had 1500 men, with a major general commanding. took more than a week to assemble.

LineDoggie
01-09-2011, 09:20 PM
There is a well preserved Krupp built RR Gun at the Aberdeen Proving Ground Ordnance Museum. Along with other displays to see, are many historic armor displays. I would highly recommend a visit if in the area of Maryland, US.
GONE, the Armor collection is being moved to Ft. Lee Virigina
And not sure where Knoxs Patton Museum is going, probably Benning

Prowler129
01-09-2011, 09:22 PM
GONE, the Armor collection is being moved to Ft. Lee Virigina
And not sure where Knoxs Patton Museum is going, probably Benning

Base closure or reallignment?

SmoothieX12
01-09-2011, 09:23 PM
2 different guns


Gustav- 1st produced Named after Gustav Krupp
Dora 2nd produced Named after Senior Krupp Engineers Wife

I know, but people of Sevastopol still were calling it Dora for some reason.

LineDoggie
01-10-2011, 12:46 AM
Same reason US G.I.'s called every German Tank they saw a Tiger, or any artillery an "88"........

T-5 Killer
01-10-2011, 01:57 AM
GONE, the Armor collection is being moved to Ft. Lee Virigina
And not sure where Knoxs Patton Museum is going, probably Benning

WOW bummer.

RedKatushya
01-14-2011, 06:59 AM
I do remember reading somewhere that there was plans to put the Dora on massive tracks and turn it into a self-propelled gun during the Battle for Berlin. Not sure what happened with that or how much truth there is to that though.

nemowork
01-15-2011, 08:08 PM
Probably true, given a choice between wearing a white coat and developing new super weapons or being drafted out of your nice comfortable heated office to carry a rifle in a frozen muddy hole on the ostfront you wont be surprised at how creative some back room geeks could be at suggesting new wonder weapons.

Dc5-driver
01-15-2011, 08:30 PM
Probably true, given a choice between wearing a white coat and developing new super weapons or being drafted out of your nice comfortable heated office to carry a rifle in a frozen muddy hole on the ostfront you wont be surprised at how creative some back room geeks could be at suggesting new wonder weapons.

I don`t think the people of the UK did`nt know about wonderweapons..V2`s?
It`s pretty obvious that the Germans where ahead in most terms of technology.
But in most cases they where a useless efford..
All those V2`s coult have been 20.000 fighters... But the idea`s like Air to Air and Around to Air missiles,Asaultrifles,ICBM`s,Jet Fighters/Bombers had a huge infuence on warfare and weapons after WW2. And there where usefull weapons in the making like the Volksjaeger.

The Nazi`s thought they had won the war to quick and Hitler had it`s share becuse it coult have been worse if they pushed on Jet fighters/Intercenpters from the beginning.

nemowork
01-15-2011, 08:42 PM
Its a moot point, the Germans were ahead on developing technology for the future because they'd lost the fight for real technology in the here and now!

Its good to have a Koenigs Tiger that could command 3000yards of clear kill space round a village, its not so good that production values mean that while you command that one village the allies average, bog standard non-super tanks have wiped out your infantry and taken over the other 19 villages in that sector and their air support has killed your fuel and ammunition supply trucks so any heroic move you make is going to be nothing more than a speedbump on the highway to allied victory.

Dc5-driver
01-15-2011, 08:54 PM
Its a moot point, the Germans were ahead on developing technology for the future because they'd lost the fight for real technology in the here and now!

Its good to have a Koenigs Tiger that could command 3000yards of clear kill space round a village, its not so good that production values mean that while you command that one village the allies average, bog standard non-super tanks have wiped out your infantry and taken over the other 19 villages in that sector and their air support has killed your fuel and ammunition supply trucks so any heroic move you make is going to be nothing more than a speedbump on the highway to allied victory.

And Werner von braun a Nazi among other nazi`s made the Apolo mission a real thing..;-) And the first Russian rockets are pretty much V1 and V2`s.
It isnt strange that the Sabre and Mig 15 are pretty much thesame from a distance.
Nazi`s where shiped after the war to work for others.
French MBT development was pretty much based German tech.
Israeli super shermans had a Panterish 7,5cm...

nemowork
01-15-2011, 09:13 PM
Looting the dead is a well known historic sport, they lost, we got to keep their cool stuff.

nemowork
01-15-2011, 09:26 PM
And if you notice, the Nazi's got to win on all the stuff that looks good on History channel documentaries, planes that go fast, superguns that might have worked in the future, guns that might have won the war if only other people hadn't won it first, the Allies had things like code breaking, information management, communication and computers, the Germans had superb 19th century science fiction fantasy technology, the allies had all the stuff that makes the 21st century work, do you get why they lost?

LineDoggie
01-15-2011, 09:36 PM
And Werner von braun a Nazi among other nazi`s made the Apolo mission a real thing..;-) And the first Russian rockets are pretty much V1 and V2`s.
It isnt strange that the Sabre and Mig 15 are pretty much thesame from a distance.
Nazi`s where shiped after the war to work for others.
French MBT development was pretty much based German tech.
Israeli super shermans had a Panterish 7,5cm... Nemos right about the Royal Tiger as an example. At least the US and Allies had the industrial capacity to make spares, something the Germans werent able to do on a similar scale. SO while they made such techincal super beasts, when those beasts broke down they were cannibalized or abandoned

And the F-86 & MIG-15 owed more to the British Whittle Engine that each country was given examples of

TheKiwi
01-15-2011, 10:02 PM
And meanwhile, a real super weapon, and one that actually worked was unleashed on the 15th of July 1945. In fact that was the main difference between Allied super weapons and the German ones, the allied ones worked. Gloster Meteors, B-29's, Midway Class carriers, proximity fuses, atomic bombs, electronic computers, the list goes on.

Dc5-driver
01-15-2011, 10:17 PM
And if you notice, the Nazi's got to win on all the stuff that looks good on History channel documentaries, planes that go fast, superguns that might have worked in the future, guns that might have won the war if only other people hadn't won it first, the Allies had things like code breaking, information management, communication and computers, the Germans had superb 19th century science fiction fantasy technology, the allies had all the stuff that makes the 21st century work, do you get why they lost?

Yes it`s clear why they lost.;-)


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Dc5-driver
01-15-2011, 10:34 PM
And meanwhile, a real super weapon, and one that actually worked was unleashed on the 15th of July 1945. In fact that was the main difference between Allied super weapons and the German ones, the allied ones worked. Gloster Meteors, B-29's, Midway Class carriers, proximity fuses, atomic bombs, electronic computers, the list goes on.

The German ones brought the US glory in 1969.

The winning weapons where more a production thing rather then tech.
Weapons like the V2 coult not have the capability to change the outcome of a war but where a proof of superiority at a point.
If they gave the ME262 a high priority it coult have been used in huge numbers and a focus on one MBT unstead 5 diffirent types coult have changed production amounts.
And at the last moments the Germans developed new eazy to produce last efford weapons like the Volksjaeger and the STG45.
Lots of those weapons worked some better then the weapons of others...

There where huge frustrations whitin the German high command due there useless rail-guns..

T-5 Killer
01-15-2011, 10:37 PM
I dig the He 162 in white with the red stars!

TheKiwi
01-15-2011, 11:14 PM
The German ones brought the US glory in 1969.

The winning weapons where more a production thing rather then tech.
Weapons like the V2 coult not have the capability to change the outcome of a war but where a proof of superiority at a point.
If they gave the ME262 a high priority it coult have been used in huge numbers and a focus on one MBT unstead 5 diffirent types coult have changed production amounts.
And at the last moments the Germans developed new eazy to produce last efford weapons like the Volksjaeger and the STG45.
Lots of those weapons worked some better then the weapons of others...

There where huge frustrations whitin the German high command due there useless rail-guns..

There was certainly a productive capacity element to it. The Allies and Soviet Union could out produce Germany 5 or 6 times over, and they did. The V2 was an example of idiocy. It consumed vast amounts of resources, was very unreliable and delivered a fraction of a % of the explosives that the RAF and USAAF were dropping every day. The very fact that it was given a go ahead shows no comprehension of the economics of warfare.

Likewise the Me-262 (which is highly over-rated and was as reliable as a $2 watch) could be produced in as many numbers as you want. So long as there are no pilots to man it and no fuel to propel it, it's wasted resources. By comparison, the Meteor was considerably more reliable. Post war a minor change to the air frame saw Meteors going over 100km/h faster than the fastest Me-262. The Rolls Royce Nean engine was the basis for a generation of post war jets. Meanwhile no-one post war was able to make a success with the German jet engines.

I will repeat, the allied "super weapons" were so reliable, that no-one today thinks of them as super weapons, they were just weapons. Much of the mystique of the German weapons comes down to no-one ever using them in combat (like the Volksjager and the Horten flying wings). You can claim all sorts of possibilities without any fear of being contradicted.

Dc5-driver
01-15-2011, 11:46 PM
Likewise the Me-262 (which is highly over-rated and was as reliable as a $2 watch) could be produced in as many numbers as you want. So long as there are no pilots to man it and no fuel to propel it, it's wasted resources. By comparison, the Meteor was considerably more reliable. Post war a minor change to the air frame saw Meteors going over 100km/h faster than the fastest Me-262. The Rolls Royce Nean engine was the basis for a generation of post war jets. Meanwhile no-one post war was able to make a success with the German jet engines.

I will repeat, the allied "super weapons" were so reliable, that no-one today thinks of them as super weapons, they were just weapons. Much of the mystique of the German weapons comes down to no-one ever using them in combat (like the Volksjager and the Horten flying wings). You can claim all sorts of possibilities without any fear of being contradicted.

I don`t no but sometimes weapons are just efective and eazy to produce and maintain but it does`nt mean there hightech.
Your right about the ME262..At first Low priority German jets where 2nd gen when the Meteor came right? It`s intreasting what 46 woult have been like.
The T-34/Sherman where by all means not equal to the panther but where a edge on winning the war becuse they where simple compared to the panzers that`s the case of many weapons during the war.
Those idiotic actions/programes where not the actions by the Generals but by Hitler.
Gauderian hated those guns and asked how to shoot a tanks whit them..

BLUE THOR
01-16-2011, 12:27 AM
on cool kit... this was a bit of a late leap forward in military technology.

Looks about the same bloody size as the one I have to strap to my helmet... less battery man-pack

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/german-infrared-night-vision-devices-infrarot-scheinwerfer.htm

zero11
01-16-2011, 01:52 AM
Gauderian hated those guns and asked how to shoot a tanks whit them..

Yes, he was invited by Hitler to inspect one those super sized cannons together and Hitler wasted no time in asking the manufacturers how effective it would be against tanks. Naturally he got an answer that he was expecting which was that it would destroy the very easily. At that point Guderian could not restrain himself and replied along the lines that it would destroy a tank if it could hit one, if will never happen in real life. It was in one of Guderian's books, when I have time I will look up the exact words he used.


Second world war was a very complicated combination of events. Blaming the defeat on Hitler alone is not quite accurate. The German generals were impressive against poorly organized and lead Red army but once Stalin got the things under control the German generals only knew of defeat were only capable of minor tactical victories towards the end. Of course after the war they quickly blamed Hitler for everything in an attempt to hide their deficiencies.

RedKatushya
01-16-2011, 06:03 AM
There is a well preserved Krupp built RR Gun at the Aberdeen Proving Ground Ordnance Museum. Along with other displays to see, are many historic armor displays. I would highly recommend a visit if in the area of Maryland, US.

Kubinka Museum outside of Moscow has one of the best armor exhibits. Including the only remaining copy of the Maus Tank.

T-5 Killer
01-17-2011, 04:43 PM
Kubinka Museum outside of Moscow has one of the best armor exhibits. Including the only remaining copy of the Maus Tank.

Awesome I wish I could make it out there to see it.

RedKatushya
01-17-2011, 04:46 PM
Awesome I wish I could make it out there to see it.

It's a pain in the ass to get in though if you're not a Russian citizen. The museum is on a military base so you need prior permission from the State to go.

Dc5-driver
01-22-2011, 06:48 PM
From wiki:

Langer Gustav.
The Langer Gustav was a long cannon with 52 centimeter caliber and a 43 meter barrel. It was intended to fire super-long-range rocket projectiles weighing 680 kilograms to a range of 190 kilometers.

It woult have been a lot cheaper then the use of the V2 to bombard London/Antwerp.
And more usefull then the fixed V3.
A small scale V2 project woult have been efective delivering other warheards on a longer term.
At Anzio the guns where pretty efective and hard to find by AF. But on a later stage movement shoult have been difficult.. Lot`s of German unit`s including Division`s where allmost destroyed by air during the Alied advance in Europe.
70% of Europes industry`s infrastructure and railroads where destroyed during ww2. But maybe in some cases the guns coult have there use.

T-5 Killer
01-22-2011, 09:06 PM
It's a pain in the ass to get in though if you're not a Russian citizen. The museum is on a military base so you need prior permission from the State to go.
Well balls than! LOL