Greatest Defensive Battle by a Small Unit

[XASA]

You are surrounded. There's no relief in sight. Your small unit is outnumbered by at least ten to one. With the exception of one, the outcome is never in doubt-- you will be defeated! Which battle would you rank as the greatest defensive fight in terms of military, political and historical significance.

Thermopylae, where the 300 Spartans fought the Persians to gain time for their fellow Greeks. The Alamo, where a small band of Texicans kept Santa Ana's army at bay until Sam Houston could organize his army. Wake Island, where a Marine battalion kept the Japanese Navy at bay. Cassino, where German paratroopers changed the course of the Italian Campaign in WWII by warding off the entire Allied 5th Army. Or, my choice, Rorke's Drift, where a small British detachment valiantly held off thousands of Zulus. I'm listing small units, which is why you don't see Stalingrad or the Chosin Resoirvoir listed. Are there other battles that were equally as heroic? Please advise.

[Oxley]

Cassino was a joke, the allies bombed it to hell and back. Then the germans used the rubble as cover and held off the mountain for longer.

Which allies were involved in the fighting?

I know New Zealanders fought there.

[Zach R.]

I don't really know much about those, but I don't want to say Battle of the Black Sea or I'll get the crap beat out of me. But, you do know that's what people are gonna say. I'm currently researching the history side of the movie "We were Soldiers". If it really happened like that in the movie, I would say it would be that one. 4000 vs 395.

[Oxley]

I wouldnt think it was the same as in the movie man. That was afterall Hollywood.

Oh yer! If you make one of these topics you should add more to the list than just some well known ones. Maybe you should add some Australian battles in WW2 where small sections of Aussie diggers held off against thousands of Japanese troops.
;)

[James]

Thermopylae, hands down. 300 Spartans vs. what, 200,000 Persians? THOSE are some odds...

[duck]

First on my list. The two major uprisings in Warsaw, first in the jewish ghetto and then the larger all over town. Both show that in even in your darkest hour you can regain your pride and dignity. If the soviets would not have blocked all supplies to the polish resistance, the latter one might even have succeeded.

Then, on the eastern front, the numerous small-unit defensive battles during the russian winter offensive 41-42. Some german units were cut off for months, but were supplied from the air and survived against overwhelming odds until relieved in the spring.

And, last but not least, the handful of british royal marines defending South Georgia Island in 1982. They held off far superior argentine forces for hours and even damaged an argentinian warship in the process. The best thing about this battle was that next to no-one was killed unlike in the massacres mentioned above.

[Oxley]

Yeah, those two uprisings in Warsaw in WW2 were pretty heroic. To bad the russians couldnt come in with supplies to help them out.
Germans used everything they had against that uprising, and it lasted a month or somthing.

War is full of heroic battles, and small fights nobody hears of.

[Rantanplan]

"the russians couldnt come in with supplies to help them out"

?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

The Russians didn't want to Help the Poles!!! They waited and watched how the Germans made a massacre because they couldn't accept that some Poles and Jews could liberate themself! It sounds better for the Propaganda if the the mighty red Army liberates Warzaw and not some wretched Poles.

[Oxley]

I read the russians were held up over a river, and couldnt get to the city.

The poles started the uprising becuase they heard the russian guns, and thought they would be there soon.

[Rantanplan]

That the Poles thought that the Russians would help them is true but as far I know is that Stalin gave the Order that hte Red Army had to rest and wait until the Germans had knocked down the Uprising.

[Oxley]

wow, i did'nt know that :o

Thanks for the info

[XASA]

The Warsaw uprisings certainly ranks with great battles by an outnumbered foe. I'd be interested in hearing about Australian small unit battles that rank with the ones I started this thread with. Tobruk, because it involved large units, also wasn't listed. The Germans who fought in Russia in WWII certainly were heroic, but since they were initially the aggressor and, again, large units were involved, I didn't feel they were appropriate for this poll. If someone has other examples, please advise.

So far as the Polish Uprising in 1944, the Russians wanted to install their own government with Poles who were communists and who had fought alongside them, which is why they allowed the Polish partisans, who were affiliated with the Poles in Great Britain and wanted to install a democracy after the war, to be wiped out.

[Oxley]

http://www.jahitchcock.com/kokoda.html

Read that mate, that is full of Australian courage.

quotes:
"After four days of non-stop and often hand-to-hand fighting in which over 500 Japanese were killed"

"Brigadier Potts had roughly 1000 men against over 6000 Japanese."

Small story, this man recieved the Victoria Cross.

"In another Australian position, Corporal Lindsay Bear took command after his officer had been killed and his Sergeant wounded. The situation seemed hopeless as the Japanese threatened to break through the Australian position and overrun the whole battalion. The wounded Corporal Bear was manning a bren gun and was weak from blood loss. He passed the gun to the man next to him , Private Bruce Kingsbury (pictured at the right). Suddenly, Kingsbury leapt up, and firing the bren from his hip, charged the Japanese positions through a storm of enemy machine gun fire. He cleared a path of 100 meters before being shot down by a sniper. Kingsbury’s action stopped the Japanese breakthrough and restored the battalions position. Kingsbury was awarded Australia’s highest medal for bravery, the Victoria Cross. Later his mates said he’d thrown his life away to save theirs."

[Oxley]

Not entirely "small unit" battles, but 6jap to 1Australian ratio is pretty bad.

[Royal]

In South Georgia the Royal's also shot down a helo and damaged a sub (it's still there) - all with 84mm Carl Gustavs.

But I'd go for the battle of Mirbat in the Oman. An 8 man SAS team held out against several thousand Adoo until finally relieved. The OC (Capt Mike Keeley) got an MC. There are still calls for a VC for Sgt Labalaba (a Fijiian NCO who was killed). As Keeley was the only officer there (and he died on a training exercise in the late '70's) it seems unlikely.

[Beloved Shiv]

My vote's for Thermopylae, although I'm intrigued the Korean Chosin Reservoir was omitted. Mirbat's a dead cert for anyone familiar with the SAS' history.

And while the Somali numbers I believe are still essentially estimates, Op Irene wouldn't qualify for this list?

[Vance]

Texicans? What the hell is that?

[Gordon]

Royal, I read it was a few hundred Adoo (got that from various different books), just wondering which one of us is nearer the mark ... considering your history I expect you're more in the know than I am.

[EvanL]

I read about a battle in Croatia where a group of 100 Canadian soldiers managed to hold off 1000s of attacking serbs until they were relieve by a group of 600 Belgians who couldnt hold them off. Its in a book called "Tested Mettle".

[Seiyuuki]

There were 300 Spartans at Thermopylae.

Don't forget the 101st Airborne at Bastogne in WW2.

[XASA]

I stand corrected: 300 Spartans it was.

Bastogne was a brave stand but not a small unit action.

"Texican" was what many Texans called themselves during the revolution up until the annexation of the state into the U.S.

Somalia and BHD had many courageous acts including two CMH winners but it was a police action that went horribly wrong; the mob that was involved wasn't by any means a trained military force.

I'm learning in this thread about Mirbat and look forward to more details.

The Aussies in the Pacific during WWII was certainly a commendable feat of arms but, as noted, it was a fairly large unit and 6 to 1 odds against Diggers isn't a fair fight-- the Aussies will win every time ;)

[Herrmannek]

First Battle of WWII at Westerplatte


Polish garnison defending 7 days with:
205 troops
40 pistols
160 rifles
41 machine guns
* 16 heavy-mg
* 17 hand-mg
* 8 light-mg
one cannon 75mm, 300 shells, destoyed after 28 shots 1-st day
4 mortars 81 mm,860 shells, destoyed after 104 shots 2-nd day
2 AT cannons 37 mm
~1000 grenades

from Nazis:
2600 troops
diving bombers Stukas
mortar-howitzers 110mm
dreadnought "Schleswig Holstein"
*4 x 280 mm
*10 x 150 mm
*4 x 88 mm guns

Garnison survived:
17 huricane shellfires
14 ground assaults
19 night escapades
dive bombings

Garnison eventually surrended.

Polish loses: 15 KIA with one murdered after surrending,13 heavy wounded & 30 slightly wounded.

German loses: ~1000 WIA & KIA exact number unknown

Small map:

[Schuster]

I read about a battle in Croatia where a group of 100 Canadian soldiers managed to hold off 1000s of attacking serbs until they were relieve by a group of 600 Belgians who couldnt hold them off. Its in a book called "Tested Mettle".

Hey Evan Lloyd I've Never Read Tested Mettle. But i think your Talking about the Medak Pocket.. It was a Mechanized battalion (At the time i think it was 4 rifle companys and some support coys making up 900 soldiers) Of canadians Stopping the ethnic cleansing of a Large predominatly serbian area of south east croatia known as the krajina by the Croatian army. i'm not to certain of the force facing the Canadians but after 15 Hours of fighting 27 Croats were reported dead with out one serious canadian casualty. The Medak Pocket was the center of the fighting where the canadians were consentrated i think... you may be talking about something else though.

[Ratamacue]

My vote goes to Wake Island. Some 450 Marines equipped with WW1-era equipment repelled 2 Japanese invasions with minimal casualties. The only reason they surrendered was because their CO was out-of-contact with the unit and thought the Japs had overrun the island.

Chosin Reservoir and Bastogne are also great situations, but involved large units.

[EvanL]

Yeh im not refering to the battle of the medak pocket. But thanks for the explanation, im sure most here have no idea about that battle.

[Chris1]

I'm learning in this thread about Mirbat and look forward to more details.

More information can be found Here (http://home.hccnet.nl/22.sas/) click on Mirbat.

[Royal]

Royal, I read it was a few hundred Adoo (got that from various different books), just wondering which one of us is nearer the mark ... considering your history I expect you're more in the know than I am.

Judging by Chris1's link, I stand corrected. I've not looked at the battle since I was doing YO training (a good few years ago). I know the numbers are debatable as the Adoo carried away their dead and wounded. I am sure though that Kealy (my spelling mistake previously) got an MC rather than a DSO.

[Gordon]

I am sure though that Kealy got an MC rather than a DSO.

Yeh, i reckon you're right ... as far as I remember, which aint too far though ;) , it was an MC.

[volfram]

Battle of Camerone,Mexico 1863.60 foreign legionnaires fought against 1800 Mexicans.Few survive.30 years later Mexican army build a monument to honor legionnaires.

[Argo AdAm]

about Cassino


Which allies were involved in the fighting?

I know New Zealanders fought there.

Poles, of course ;) And they as a first allied troops at last occupied this hill, hoisting Polish and Britain flags over it

I'm very glad to see that you guys know something about The Warsaw Uprising. It's interesting that the 1st Polish Independent Parachute Brigade was planned to jump into Warsaw to help, but allied command canceled this idea b/c officially it was very hard to transfer soldiers so far from UK. Polish parachutist was very angry about that but finally they fought in "Market Garden". BTW If you've seen "A bridge to far" you may remember G. Hackman (-graet actor) who was playing gen. Sosabowski (-great person) seing in Polish - "Sznur!" (ang. rope!) when Poles were crossing a river to help the Red Devils in Arnhem.

My egzample of Greatest Defensive Small Unit Battle comes from a Polish military history too. This is one of the most famous battles of WWII for Poles. It's called in Poland "The Defence of Westerplatte". You probably know something about it. Herrmannek ;) wrote about that.
It started 1st of September 1939 at 4.45 a.m. when German WW1-old battleship "Schleswig Holstein"(had arrived at Gdansk for a 'courtesy call'...) fired a first shot on Polish ammunition depot and installation in Westerplatte near Free City of Gdansk (ger. Danzig). And the WW II began. Polish positions: few buildings prepared as bunkiers, a brick wall, several trench systems, were defended by circa 150 - 180 soldiers and a very small number of haevy weapons: two 37 mm anti-tank cannons, one 75 mm cannon, two or four (?) 81 mm mortars and machine guns (almost no AA guns). Germans in greatly superior force were constantly attacking from all sides, from the sea - battleship and other warships, land - infantry (aot. Marinesturmkompanie, SS, SA, Danzig Police) and air - Stukas. Poles were completelly surrounded, but they didn't want to give up. They thought their fight has a sense, they hoped that maybe some help will come. Before the war the defence of their positions was meant to last only a few hours or at the worst two days untill another Polish troops would arrive. They was very glad when on the 3th day of fighting they heard on the radio that UK and France declared war to Germans, but as you know their hopes were vain b/c UK were not able to do something those times and France... - never mind. Defenders were right in one thing, their fight had a sense. All Poland knew about their bravery b/c all the time Polish radio reported to the world "Westerplatte still fights on" and it was very important to rest of Polish army and people. Battle finished after one week. Polish commander - major Henryk Sucharski surrendered Polish positions only because there was no possibility to help the wounded anymore and there was to little ammunition to continue fight and of course there was no hope to win. Probably in fact maj. Sucharski wanted to surrender earlier b/c since the second day of defence he had been in nervous shock (?) from the Stuks raid but kpt. Franciszek Dabrowski practically took the command of the defence - and he did it well. After the battle Germans were surprised that there were so few Poles, they were imressed by the skill and intensity of the defence. Something about that tells numbers of casualties: Polish - only 15 killed but many wounded (almost everyone), Germans - about 300 - 400 killed and wounded but real number isn't known. German commander Friedrich Eberhardt allowed maj. Sucharski to keep his officer's sword (sabre) and Polish POW's were treated well.

"The Defence of Westerplatte" has still a great moral value for Poland b/c like many others polish battles showed what really means very old Polish army motto: "God, Honour and Homeland" . To be less pathetic that of course showed also how a small unit can stop a better equipped superior enemy by kicking their asses.

Another my another egzample - the defence of Red Devils in Arnhem commanded by Lt Col John Frost

[Beowulf]

Beachead- Level 27......
-b

[a. enders]

The dfense on a Belgian town.Not bastogne,or any from the 101st lexicon.Can't remember the details,but it was something like a fifteen to thirty man scout company (again,not sure,details furry) set about defending a town from a panzer column for two or three days at the outset of the offensive.....Wish I could remember the name...Maybe someone already mentioned.Think it was Citizen Soldiers (Ambrose of course,don't have the book with me).

[Kitsune]

Just to say something about Thermophylae: Initially this small place bettween rocks and the sea was defended by more than those Spartans. There were other Greek troops as well blocking the Persian way. But then a traitor showed the Persians a secret path, so that the Greeks could be surrounded. The Greeks knew that, so they withdraw...but Leonidas and 300 Spartans STAYED to further delay the Persians. They knew this would be suicide.
And the Persians attacked from both sides, but were repulsed again and again. So the Persian Great King send his Elite Corps, the Immortals, against them. But even they were beaten back. In the end the Persians decided to slew the Spartans with arrows.
None survived.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Camerone, as mentioned. 62 Legionnaires against 1800 plus, some say up to 3000 mexicans. After their ammunition was exausted the last six Legionnaires fixed bayonets and charged........

Rorke's Drift. B Coy 2nd/24th Regiment (later the South Wales Borderers) and a few stragglers from Isandhlwana, 139 in all, of whom 35 were sick or wounded vs approx 6000 Zulu warriors. 11 VC's awarded

Fox Coy at Tokong pass, November 1950. One Marine Rifle Coy vs two plus chicom Regiments.

Battery L at Nery, September 1 1914. Six thirteen-pounders of the Royal Horse Artillery vs a german cavalry division suported by two six gun batterys.Three guns never made it into action and by the end all the officers and 80% of the men in Battery L were casualties but they routed the germans. 3 VC's awarded

The 1st Battalion The Gloucestershire Regiment and Troop C 170th Independent Mortar Battery, vs the Chicom 187th infantry division plus elements of the 188th and 189th divisions at the Imjin river 22-25 April 1951. The Glosters were left with 5 officers and 34 men out of a battalion of 622.

[FrogMan]

Battle of Camerone.
62 Legionnaires + 3 Officers against 1200 infantry + 800 cavalry of mexican Army

You can read here (http://www.amicale-online.ca/Hrecite.html) the story of this battle.

[ogukuo72]

What about Arnhem?

[Light Fighter]

Its been a while since I had a history class but I recall reading about a fight in Vietnam that involved a small SF unit surrounded by NVA/VC and the soldiers on the ground kept calling in choppers to evacuate the area. Choppers were flying in and out of a base to resupply the unit and along went a soldier as a door gunner on one of the Hueys, he ended up getting out of the chopper and retreiving the remaining wounded US soldiers after himself taking many hits from AK rounds, he ended up getting the MOH but for the life of me cant remember the mans name.

[Merik]

Pleiku?

Thats just a guess, there were many SF camps in and around Vietnam but several were around the A Shau Valley which was the most deadliest.

[grendel]

Battle of Long Tan (http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-battles/long_tan.htm)

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Long Tan was an encounter battle where 108 soldiers of D Coy survived continual frontal assaults mounted by battalions of a reinforced NVA Regiment in the order of some 2500 NVA and VC troops.

- Major Harry Smith MC, who commanded Delta Six at Long Tan

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Pork chop hill, 16-18 April 1953.

The defence of Kohima 6-18 April 1944

[wulfstan]

PT...
In answer to your question about which allies fought at casino, you name it;
brits, americans, aussies, south africans, new zealanders, indians, to name but a few. Should have just left them there surrounded and let them stave, and sent the rest of the forces somewhere else.

[Oxley]

Yeah, i never understood monte cassino, all those men fought in it, when they could of just bombed it again...?
The first airstrikes to destroy the large building that covered the mountain top was half a success. But it gave the Germans more rubble to hide in and to help them defend to mountain against many attacks.

Does anyone have a detailed story about monte cassino, i would like to learn a bit more about it.

Thanks everyone for your information :D

[Beloved Shiv]

{snip} Somalia and BHD had many courageous acts including two CMH winners but it was a police action that went horribly wrong; the mob that was involved wasn't by any means a trained military force. {Snip}

Firstly, I must say this thread is quickly becoming my favorite thus far. The wealth and breadth of information shared here is incredible.

Trying not to split hairs, I will concede the Somali aggressors were not a conventional military force. However a "mob" conotes only a large group of angry people acting with the intent of violence. It doesn't capture the fact that hundreds of heavily armed, gun battle-experienced clanners were dispatched by an overwhelming outnumbered group of young Rangers and a minority of operators. Irene itself certainly was not a police operation.

While not as staggeringly poetic a "last-stand" as Mirbat, please don't discount it as a failure. I'm sure you did not mean to imply it was insignificant, but your comments can be interpreted as such.

Perhaps that's better addressed in another thread (or has been).

[Argo AdAm]

Does anyone have a detailed story about monte cassino, i would like to learn a bit more about it.
There is something:
http://www.battleofmontecassino.com/ (day by day events, not only about Polish contribution in this battle as it may looks)
http://www.forces70.freeserve.co.uk/Fallshirmjager/cassino.htm
http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/cassino.htm

[XASA]

Shiv, I'm with you on how cool this thread has turned out. It goes to show this forum can be polite and informative without "flame wars," airsoft patter and childish combat fantasies.

I didn't mean to discount the brave and magnificent individual accomplishments of the Rangers and Delta in Somalia. I was following this heroic battle from the day it happen and read the series in the Philadelphia Inquirer before it was made into a book and long before it became a film. Perhaps describing the Somalians as a "mob" was too simplistic a term since it did consist of combat hardened if poorly trained militas. I was just trying to differentiate between "last stands" and what was essentially a failed "nab and grab" mission due to political and military ineptness at higher levels. Also, U.S. forces were able to fight their way out and return to base, while the other examples that were given on this thread, the units were totally isolated from any relief whatsoever. We should be thankful that it doesn't rank with the examples given.

[Ballistic]

Battle of Long Tan (http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-battles/long_tan.htm)

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Long Tan was an encounter battle where 108 soldiers of D Coy survived continual frontal assaults mounted by battalions of a reinforced NVA Regiment in the order of some 2500 NVA and VC troops.

- Major Harry Smith MC, who commanded Delta Six at Long Tan

I would agree.

[martinexsquaddie]

the battle of camerone a truly hopeless postion fought to the death simply because the legion decided to fight no vital postion to be held and the mexicans did take prisoners

[Beloved Shiv]

Shiv, I'm with you on how cool this thread has turned out. It goes to show this forum can be polite and informative without "flame wars," airsoft patter and childish combat fantasies.

I didn't mean to discount the brave and magnificent individual accomplishments of the Rangers and Delta in Somalia. I was following this heroic battle from the day it happen and read the series in the Philadelphia Inquirer before it was made into a book and long before it became a film. Perhaps describing the Somalians as a "mob" was too simplistic a term since it did consist of combat hardened if poorly trained militas. I was just trying to differentiate between "last stands" and what was essentially a failed "nab and grab" mission due to political and military ineptness at higher levels. Also, U.S. forces were able to fight their way out and return to base, while the other examples that were given on this thread, the units were totally isolated from any relief whatsoever. We should be thankful that it doesn't rank with the examples given.

Too true and quite consistent with what I presumed to be the balance of your opinion, having noted cogent comments from your name in my brief time bumping 'round here. I was also half-wary of a reticent remark fueling just such a flame war from the wilfully ignorant, some kid having only seen the movie, bought a vest and wished they "coulda been there."

Still no further mention from anyone of the Chosin Reservoir? I see scant mention across past threads - I'd recommend Owen's book A Frozen Hell. On par with BHD, but written by a soldier who fought and survived.

[Ratamacue]

Chosin was truly remarkable, but remember, this thread has to do with small units. Chosin was an entire Marine division (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong).

When I first saw the thread title, though, Chosin did immediately come to mind.

[James]

The 1st Marine Division, the Royal Marines 41 Commando, and a small task force from the U.S. Army fought something like 5 Chinese divisions at Chosin in Nov/Dec 1950. It was a fighting retreat. I'm a bit biased, as I am a Marine, but I would say that things were never hopeless. :)

[StealthMode]

Thermopylae hands down. Although there is more information missing. The Thespians and Thebans joined the Spartans on the final stand and that amounted to a few thousand. The Spartans were the front line of defence in the pass and had already put back units for days already. (The pass was small so could not be rushed by superior numbers.) When a man named Ephialtes betrayed the Greeks and told the Persian King a way around the pass by way of goat trail, the Greeks knew the had to retreat to go and organize and build more ships to take the sea. The famous 300 stand was when the final Spartans defeneded the body of their dead king, they were slaughtered from a distance by arrows and spear as they were feared at close range.
This is by far the greatest, most dramatic scale, and important event in that particular war. Several thousand Greeks held off more than 100,000 awaiting troops (estimates are around 200,000) so that the rest of the Greeks could reorganize. If the Spartans and the remaining thousands had not stayed, the greeks would have been ran down and slaughtered on the retreat. Their is also evidence that the remaining Spartans were offered their lives if they gave up the kings body so the Persian King could use it as a device of fear to the other Greek city-states, they refused and died defending the body AND much more. Spartan pride as warriors saved thousands of Greek lives and evenutally allowed them to regroup and defeat the Persians later!!! They fought for days, every morning waking up to prepare for more units to attack, unbeleivable.

[Merik]

We need more threads like this one. I am truly enjoying reading all of these replies.

[digrar]

My vote is for Long Tan as well, 1 rifle company (D Coy 6 RAR) of just over 100 men against 275 NVA Regt and D445 VC Provincial Battalion plus one other NVA battalion in support.

Enemy Casualties

245 KIA (Body Count)

3 Captured

150 further KIA (Subsequent Intelligence estimate)

500 WIA (Subsequent Intelligence estimate)

Friendly Casualties

D Coy: 17 KIA 21 WIA

Other: 1 KIA from 3 Tp 1 APC Sqn

6 RAR: 3 WIA



Long Tan day on the 18 August is also Australia's Viet Nam Veterans day.
I spent 5 years in 6 RAR so I might be a bit biased.

[DeZzErX]

Well, i must say that one off the greatest battles in my opinion was that of the Belgium Para-commando's in Rwanda... When a peace-keeping mission went completly wrong...


...

BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) - Lt. Thierry Lotin, leader of a 10-man Belgian patrol, shouted into the radio: ''We've been disarmed and taken I don't know where. Two of my men are being beaten. Colonel, they're going to lynch us!''


That was the last communication received from Lotin. Before long, all 10 would be dead - beaten, stabbed, hacked, shot and mutilated by Rwandan soldiers in a frenzy of hatred toward the Belgian U.N. peacekeepers.

Belgians want to know why U.N. peacekeepers made no effort to rescue Lotin's patrol. At one point, according to the committee, Maj. Gen. Romeo Dallaire, the Canadian commanding the U.N. force, drove within 20 yards of where the paratroopers were being held and saw blue-helmeted Belgian soldiers on the ground. Yet he did not stop. He did not radio or telephone his headquarters.

The committee also is asking why the United Nations and the governments of Belgium, France and the United States did not act on warnings passed along by Dallaire that Hutus were planning massacres and might try to provoke or even kill Belgian peacekeepers.

The drama began shortly after the death of Rwandan President Juvenal Habyarimana in a still unexplained plane crash on April 6, 1994. Lotin and his men were given orders about 2 a.m. the next day to take Prime Minister Agathe Uwilingiyimana to the radio station to make an appeal for calm.

When the 10 peacekeepers arrived at the prime minister's house, soldiers of the Hutu army opened fire with rifles and grenades. After about two hours the Belgians ran out of amunition, the prime minister ignored Lotin's advice and fled. She was caught and murdered.

A Hutu officer ordered the surrounded and outgunned Belgians to give up their weapons or be killed. Lotin's battalion commander, Lt. Col. Jo Dewez, authorized him by radio to do so.

Lotin and his men were taken to a Rwandan military base, where an officer accused Belgian troops of shooting down the president's plane. Soldiers at the base went wild with machetes, bayonets and guns. Four of the paratroopers were cut down immediately.

Lotin and the rest ran to a building, where another was trapped and killed. A Rwandan soldier tried to break into the room where the survivors barricaded themselves, but Lotin killed him with a pistol he had kept hidden and grabbed the soldier's AK-47 rifle.

The Belgians held out with those two weapons for three hours against an entire Rwandese Batallion, when grenades dropped into the room through the roof ended resistance. All the bodies were stripped of valuables and mutilated.

Two weeks later, faced with a shocked and distraught nation, Belgium's government withdrew its 450-man battalion from the U.N. force in Rwanda.

[gaz]

The 1st Marine Division, the Royal Marines 41 Commando, and a small task force from the U.S. Army fought something like 5 Chinese divisions at Chosin in Nov/Dec 1950. It was a fighting retreat.

I don't think that term actually appears in any official history of the battle, I think it was always deemed something along the lines of "Advancing in a different direction".

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

The battle involving Fox Company at the Toktong pass was part of the overall Chosin reservoir operation. Captain William Barber was tasked with holding the pass in order to allow the Fifth and Seventh Marine Regiments to 'advance in a different direction' from Yudam-ni about seven miles north of the pass to Hargaru-ri, approx the same distance south of the pass. The 220 men of Fox Coy were up against the approx 10,000 strong Chicom 59th Division whose mission it was strangle the American route along the fourteen miles from Yudam to Hagaru. Fox Coy held the pass from the 27 Nov to the 2 Dec. By the end just 82 men of Fox Coy were able to walk away but the Fifth and Seventh made to it the airfield at Hagaru where they regrouped, resupplied and flew out their wounded before fighting on to Hungnam and safety.

[Barabas]

This has gott to be the most underhanded action. Not only did 200 Greeks take on 20k, but they lost a king in the battle. It wasn't victorious but by far there was more at stake.

[Oxley]

Yeah, i heard about those Belgians...poor guys :(

That has to rank within the highest of great small unit defensive battles.

Gordan and Shughart in 1993 could also be pretty high up there, 2 men going in to help out a small crew against hundreds or somalia militia...

[Ratamacue]

PT does have a point there. While you may or may not consider Gordon/Shughart to be a "unit," it certainly was a truly heroic last stand. They fought until they ran out of ammo, and died fighting.

[MEGR]

The Israelis in almost every war they fought.

[Henk]

What about the battle at Bloedrivier 1838 in South Africa where 500 farmers defeated 12000 zulu wariors.
____________________________
He who wants peace must prepare for war.

[California Joe]

Rodney King vs. LAPD

[budanski]

rofl

[Skyranger]

Thermopylae by far. They were up close and personal with the enemy. read Gates of Fire and you will get a glimpse of true courage and leadership.

[Beloved Shiv]

The Israelis in almost every war they fought.

Another excellent submission from out of "left field" - no other mention of the IDF historically thus far that I saw. 'Ashamed I didn't think to suggest it myself.

[James]

Thermopylae is leading... YES!

[StealthMode]

Gates of Fire is a great book, I learned much from that book as well as 2 courses I took in college about Thermopylae and the wars of that time. Although many battles that have been mentioned are no doubt heroic, as well as many other things against great odds, Thermopylae was by far the most important battle in that War and maybe the world's future progress. Imagine if Persia was allowed to POUR into Greece after they ran down the main Greek army at Thermopylae? The Persians would have won the war as their would not have been a significant resistance on land or sea. What would have become of the ROMANS to come???? If Greece was taken, the coast of Italy would have been as well. Remember, the Romans formed many things from the Greeks including law and democracy..... if the Romans never developed out of a Persian empire in Greece, where would the modern world be today? We may owe alot more to those heroic Spartan soldiers that fought to the death and made so many fight harder because of them.

[koster]

What about the Pervomaika/Pervomaiskoe?
Thats when 10 GRU operatives held a perimeter (border between Chechnya and Degestan )against 400+ terrorists (most of whom were stoned), without support (no HMG's, nor APC's).

[FallenAngel]

The 1st Marine Division, the Royal Marines 41 Commando, and a small task force from the U.S. Army fought something like 5 Chinese divisions at Chosin in Nov/Dec 1950. It was a fighting retreat. I'm a bit biased, as I am a Marine, but I would say that things were never hopeless. :)

Umm....right on about the other units in the fight with the Marines, a little off about the enemy.

They were surrounded by something like 22 enemy divisions. They ended up completely destroying 7. (highest kill ratio in US history I believe)

Also, a Chinese div. = 16500+ men, while the 1st Mar. Div. only numbered approx. 12,000 men plus a few hundred Royals and Army men.

As for the last stand....Thermopylae without question. There were 300 Spartan warriors, plus 900 helot hoplites (Helots were the surfs of the Spartan kingdom and they agmented the Spartarns in a *light* infantry role.) and as has been mentioned, something like 2000-2500 Thebeans and Thespians. The total force was numbered something close to 4000 Greeks plus the Athenian navy. However, the way the straight was, only 300-500 Greeks could fight at a time, thus allowing troops to rest up in the rear.

versus an (est.) 200,000- 250,000 Persain inf./cav. and a navy numbering in the tens of thousands.

And on the last day, only the 300 Spartans stayed while the rest retreated. They were killed by volleys of arrows that (quoate)"blocked out the sun"(/quote) to which one Spartan warrior said (quote)"it is best as we will get to die in the shade"(/quote)

One has to wonder what kind of an ass-kicking the Spartans could have unleashed if they had committed all 10,000 Spartan warriors and not just the 300 men of the "royal guard".

[James]

I thought it was more than 5 Chinese Divisions, but I couldn't remember. 22 is a lot! I read somewhere that the CHinese lost 15,000 men to hypothermia in one night.

[Argyll]

I'll resurect this one a bit,but because of the current climate between certain countries I'm not expecting a "Hell yes"
but I'd go for the French Foreign Legion at Dien Bien Phu

[Hullebullen]

I've seen that the french foreign legion at Camerone has already been mentioned. Also the the Battle of the black sea market in Mog.

[James]

If it hasn't been mentioned already...

The fighting retreat of the British Expeditionary Force from Mons in August, 1914 earned a place in the history books. The Brits were grossly outnumbered, but they kept on stopping and fighting it out with the Germans, delaying their advance towards Paris for a few crucial days. At one point, the advancing Germans thought they were being engaged by machine guns, when in fact British riflemen had been given a command something like, "Enemy in the open, five hundred yards, fifteen rounds rapid fire, FIRE!"

Anyway, just a thought.

EDIT - I guess the BEF wasn't that small of a unit though...

[S'13]

The Warsaw ghetto rebellion. It took the Germans less time to conquer the whole of Poland then to crush this rebellion which was carried out by a few hundred fighters.

[S'13]

The Warsaw Ghetto was the largest of the Jewish ghettos established by the Germans in Poland during the World War II.
Background:
Plans to isolate the Jewish population of Warsaw in a ghetto first circulated immediately after the German occupation of Poland in 1939. At the time, the administration of the Generalgouvernment had not been fully organized, and there were conflicting interests among the three major players: the civilian administration, the military, and the SS. Under these circumstances, the Jewish Council, or Judenrat, headed by Adam Czerniakow, was able to delay the establishment of the Ghetto by one year, mainly by appealing to the military to consider how Jews were a valuable labor resource.

The Warsaw ghetto was finally established by the German Generalgouverneur of Poland Hans Frank in October and November 1940. At this time, the population of the ghetto was estimated to be about 380,000 people. During the next 18 months, Jews from smaller cities and villages were brought into the ghetto, while diseases (esp. typhoid) and starvation (rations for Jews were officially limited to just 184 calories per day, as opposed to 1,800 for Poles and 2,400 for Germans in Warsaw) kept the inhabitants at about the same number. On July 22, 1942, the mass expulsion of the inhabitants started; in the next 52 days (till September 12, 1942) about 300,000 people were taken to the Treblinka extermination camp or murdered on the spot.

The situation for the remaining 55,000 to 60,000 Jews changed for the better initially: The famine ended and the once overcrowded houses were largely empty. The Jews either worked in German factories within the ghetto or lived in hiding.

During the next six months, what was left of several political organizations was brought together under name ŻOB (Żydowska Organizacja Bojowa, Jewish Fighting Organization), headed by Mordecai Anielewicz, with 500 persons; another 250 were organized in the ŻZW (Żydowski Związek Walki, Jewish Fighting Union). The members of these groups had no illusions about the German plans and wanted to die fighting. Their armament of the ŻOB consisted largely of handguns, homemade explosives and Molotov cocktails; the ŻZW was better armed through better contacts to the Polish underground outside the ghetto.

The Uprising:
On January 18, 1943, the first instance of armed resistance occurred when the Germans started the second expulsion of the Jews. The Jewish fighters had some success, the expulsion stopped after four days and the ŻOB took control of the ghetto, building dozens of fighting posts and operating against Jewish collaborateurs.

During the next three months, all inhabitants of the ghetto prepared for what they realized would be a final struggle. Hundreds of bunkers were dug under the houses, most connected through the sewer system, linked up with the central water supply and electricity, some featuring camouflaged air supplies and tunnels leading to safer areas of Warsaw.

The final battle started on the eve of Passover, April 19, 1943 and the uprising ended on May 16. Nevertheless, sporadic shooting could be heard in the area of the Ghetto throughout the summer of 1944.

German sentry units near the ghetto walls were sporadically attacked by Polish units from AK and GL. One Polish unit from AK, namely KB under command of Henryk Iwański, fought inside ghetto.

After the uprising, area of Ghetto became the place where Polish prisoners and hostages where executed by Germans. Later there was found there concentration camp KL Warschau in the area of ghetto. During Warsaw uprising Polish AK unit "Zoska" was able to save 380 Jewish prisoners of concentration camp, most of whom immedietely joined AK.

[ogukuo72]

Maybe we need some criteria to judge, like the strategic impact of the action on the war in general. Reading the account above, the Warsaw uprising sounds like a heroic but futile action.

[Herrmannek]

Maybe we need some criteria to judge, like the strategic impact of the action on the war in general. Reading the account above, the Warsaw uprising sounds like a heroic but futile action..

It have great psycho impact on Warsaw citizens and probably on current IDF(but i'm not sure Uouo should know, because it was first great battle in XX century fought buy jewish people). Such acts of bravery doesn't fade in past and are ussualy national memorials.

[ogukuo72]

Maybe we need some criteria to judge, like the strategic impact of the action on the war in general. Reading the account above, the Warsaw uprising sounds like a heroic but futile action..

It have great psycho impact on Warsaw citizens and probably on current IDF(but i'm not sure Uouo should know, because it was first great battle in XX century fought buy jewish people). Such acts of bravery doesn't fade in past and are ussualy national memorials.

Don't disagree with you on the idea of their bravery and sacrifice as an example. In that sense, their sacrifice was not futile.

I'm just saying that it doesn't really qualify as "greatest" because it did not bring about any impact on a strategic level that serves to further the cause they fought for.

I would list the Arnhem action as similarly heroic but futile. Major Frost's men held for four days against overwhelming odds, but the operation still failed. On the other hand, Pegasus Bridge would qualify as seizing the bridge is both a brilliant feat of arms, and of immense strategic importance - but Pegasus Bridge is an assault, not a defensive battle.

Using the same measure, Black Hawk Down won't qualify as a "greatest" defensive battle, although the element of small band of men against overwhelming odds are there. The action failed to serve a larger purpose in the end.

Using this measure, Alamo, Thermopylae, Mount Cassino and to a certain extent, Wake Island would qualify as they are desperate battles that bought time for the main force to recover. But Rouke's Drift - a heroic action too - would not, as it really didn't matter much if the garrison had withdrawn.

[Herrmannek]

ogukuo72 I also don't disagee with you, But those battles had great impact often non military on people, nations history and such so limiting topic only to those with instant starategic benefits is very unfair. Other factor with can determine class of battle are defenders and their dedication.

[S'13]

ogukuo72,
You are right the the uprising wasn't a strategical victory, but over 380 Jews were saved from extermination thanks to this action. Many of the fighters who survived emigrated to Israel and used there experience to help build the IDF. The uprising also had a big psychological effect on the Germans, many German soldiers refused entering the ghetto at night (for fear of Jewish ghost).

[Hussar]

Wizna - Poland september 1939. 720 Polish soldiers equipped with 6 light guns, 24 hmg, 18 lmg, 2 atr under the command of captain W. Raginis had positions in 6 heavy and 10 light bunkers (bunkers werent finished!!). They were fighting since 7 to 10 september 1939 against 19 Panzer Corps (2 Tanks divisions and one infantry division) - 30000 soldiers, 160 tanks. They hold german offensive for 2 days.
http://www.kampania.digimer.pl/b_wizna.htm (in polish)

[UoUo]

My grandfather was in the Polish army...just wnated to tell you that. ;)

[volfram]

My grandfather was in the Polish army...just wnated to tell you that. ;)
Mine too.

[Argo AdAm]

My grandfather was in the Polish army...just wnated to tell you that. ;)
Mine too.And mine too (he fought in Polsh-Soviet war in 1920), but it's obvious :lol: - we're both Polish...

[UoUo]

But i am not from Poland. ;)

[volfram]

But i am not from Poland. ;)
I know,it was joke.

[US_Frogman]

During the Vietnam War, a Ranger Recon platoon of six men stumbled onto a staging area for an entire NVA battalian. The men were surrounded and under heavy fire for several hours before they were airlifted (all still alive) out of the area. The NVA battalian however suffered such heavy casualties that is was forced to withdraw from the area.

[citizen-k]

My grandfather was in the Polish army...just wnated to tell you that. ;)

Mine too...

And no, I'm not from Poland as well...

[perdurabo]

one of the premiers or smth like that of Israel was teached in school in my home city Jelenia Góra , before 2WW Poland had the bigest population of Jews so it's quite obvious that meany of Israelis ancestors fought in Polish army:]
my wote is some of big battles of Hussaria ni 16-17century Kircholm or Kłuszyn or mayby Cecora?or Chocim? or..:)

[NcDeuce]

Many of the battles fought in Afghanistan that are not very well known throughout the public. For info on what really what went on in Operation Enduring Freedom, go out and read "The Hunt for Bin Laden" by Robin Moore.

There are some extremely intense fights in the book. One battle involved a small group of Delta Force operators being inserted by Little Birds into a small town. CIA intelligence, like in most cases, is bad. Instead of a few Taliban kids, the D-boys run into a large group of elite, hardcore bodyguards of Mullah Omar. The operators were heavily outnumbered but fought on and eventually slaughtered the Taliban and al-Qaeda forces. A Delta medic died of severe head wounds suffered in the battle en route to a hospital in Germany for surgery. Many were wounded but they overcame the odds.

Basically, the 5th Special Forces Group, 160th SOAR, 1st SFOD-D, Rangers, SEALS, and Air Force Special Ops took over Afghanistan. The other Special Forces Groups came in to relieve 5th Group so they could conduct operations in Iraq.

[Haiw]

Basically, the 5th Special Forces Group, 160th SOAR, 1st SFOD-D, Rangers, SEALS, and Air Force Special Ops took over Afghanistan. The other Special Forces Groups came in to relieve 5th Group so they could conduct operations in Iraq.

u left out a 'few' northern alliance soldiers... :roll:

[ogukuo72]

My vote goes to the operation in Vietnam in 1985 to rescue American POWs from the Vietnam War, and the 1987 operation in Afghanistan by the operator called Rambo, during which this one man killed thousands of enemy soldiers using nothing more than his trusted bow and his M60. ;)

[cut]

Cassino was a joke, the allies bombed it to hell and back. Then the germans used the rubble as cover and held off the mountain for longer.

Which allies were involved in the fighting?

I know New Zealanders fought there.

the ones I know/ can remember are

brits and indians on the high ground, new zealanders on the low ground

the freepolish forces were involved as were the free french further down the river, the french were the first to get a break through

and the american bombers (pointless as they turned out to be)

when germans were retreating back, Clark's forces were supposed to cut them off, instead he went for glory and let them go so that he could be the general to march into rome..

[SlowDog]

My vote goes to Major Kraft, not a very well known man in regard to the arnhem battle, or at least not to the general public. This man is infact the one who stopped and/or slowed the british airborne and airlanding troops from reaching the Rhine bridge in full force on the first day.

He guessed the objective of the british troops. And he placed his fighting force into a good defence line in the Wolfheze area to block the routes to the bridge. Only 2e batalion of Johnny Frost slipped past the south side of Krafts defence line. On the north most side Recce force was blocked from their attempt to reach the bridge and take it by surprise with special jeeps.

Krafts forces consisted of 435 men ranging from kids to veterans from all kind of origine.

[Tiger]

There are some extremely intense fights in the book. One battle involved a small group of Delta Force operators being inserted by Little Birds into a small town

Little Birds were used in Aghanistan ? I have read that their range was too short to be use from Pakistan...

[ibstolidude]

tf160soar wrote:

CIA intelligence, like in most cases, is bad.

Who are you (some kid by your other posts) to be making this comment?
What in the hell gives you the insight to make BOLD comments like this?
you didn't post - 'I read the intel is bad', 'I 've heard stories', 'the news once said'...blah blah blah.. you made a pretty definative comment. So back it up.

Why do people try and pawn this stuff off as fact? WERE YOU IN AFGHANISTAN? DID YOU EVER SEE THE RESULTS OF THE INTEL? Do you have ANY evidence other than a book?

- reading a book by Robin Moore that is designed to sell copies rather than tell the truth?
_____________________________
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! - HS

[Beowulf]

tf160soar wrote:

CIA intelligence, like in most cases, is bad.

Who are you (some kid by your other posts) to be making this comment?
What in the hell gives you the insight to make BOLD comments like this?
you didn't post - 'I read the intel is bad', 'I 've heard stories', 'the news once said'...blah blah blah.. you made a pretty definative comment. So back it up.

Why do people try and pawn this stuff off as fact? WERE YOU IN AFGHANISTAN? DID YOU EVER SEE THE RESULTS OF THE INTEL? Do you have ANY evidence other than a book?

- reading a book by Robin Moore that is designed to sell copies rather than tell the truth?
_____________________________
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! - HS

-hear hear...
-b

[James]

My vote goes to the operation in Vietnam in 1985 to rescue American POWs from the Vietnam War, and the 1987 operation in Afghanistan by the operator called Rambo, during which this one man killed thousands of enemy soldiers using nothing more than his trusted bow and his M60. ;)

You forgot about his enormous knife. But, I would have to agree. Rambo is THE operator. The one, the only... :lol:

[James]

Many of the battles fought in Afghanistan that are not very well known throughout the public. For info on what really what went on in Operation Enduring Freedom, go out and read "The Hunt for Bin Laden" by Robin Moore.


This doesn't fit with this thread. The U.S. attacked, and the Taliban and Al Quade were not successful with their defenses. Just a thought.


CIA intelligence, like in most cases, is bad.

:roll: is all I can say... Beowulf and ibstolidude said it well enough.

I did see a few of your posts in other threads, and it appears that over the past few days you have gotten quite a chip on your shoulder about the CIA. Where did these intense feelings come from?

[NcDeuce]

Have you people forgotten 9/11? Why am I pissed off at the CIA The "cell" system needs to be reformed. It takes too long for information to get from Point A to Point B. And when you have crappy people in the field, unwilling to deal with people they don't like, that is a problem. Your job is to deal with people and gather valuable intel, regardless of who they are.

Senate and House intelligence committees gear up for a single joint review of U.S. intelligence operations-focused on the U.S. response to terror over the last 16 years, and in particular on the Sept. 11 attacks and other Osama bin Laden operations.

As UPI recently reported, some in the intelligence community are skeptical about what the inquiry will achieve.

One longtime former agency official said the CIA has already undergone several facelifts: "We were reorganized along regional lines, then we were reorganized under functional lines. The point is that any new reorganization has got to result in a better product."

No matter what happens on Capitol Hill, reforms are badly needed, according to several current and former CIA officials who agreed to speak to UPI on condition of anonymity.

One very senior former CIA official said that prior to Sept. 11, the CIA had received "a strategic warning" of the attacks, which the CIA was unable to translate "to a tactical warning" which would have readied the nation for war.

He faulted the agency's analytical system, which he called "cumbersome," adding, "We collect a mountain of data every day, but we've lost the ability to connect the dots."

He commented that CIA Director George Tenet "goes around boasting that the analysts send to the White House a daily threat matrix of 50-100 targets. That's laughable. That's like saying in physics that there are 100 elemental particles. It shows you don't know physics."

But one senior CIA analyst, still active, said analysis is being undercut in the organization because it isn't on the fast track to promotion.

"For one thing, CIA bureau chiefs, who are really just editors, are paid more than analysts and have much more chance for promotion. They're management and analysts aren't."

Another agency analyst agreed that the career track made the job unattractive. "For analysts there is no way to go up." This inequity occurs in spite of the fact that the analyst's job "is key to processing on-ground information in key target areas." Determining the nature and degree of threats -- like that posed by al-Qaeda -- is "one of the first and foremost tasks of analysis," he said.

Another CIA screwup...

This spring, Army Green Berets set off from eastern Afghanistan toward the Pakistani border because the CIA was convinced that top al-Qaeda leaders were in the area, possibly including Osama bin Laden, and almost certainly his No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri. But the military was skeptical and reluctant to launch the secret raid, which required U.S. forces to stray into Pakistan at a time when the Pakistani government was denying their presence. Military intelligence doubted al-Qaeda leaders were there. "We like to underpromise and overdeliver," one senior Pentagon official said. "That other agency likes to overpromise." As the Pentagon had expected, the commandos returned without any prized captives.

The CIA sending SOF forces on wild goose chases is a bit disturbing. I have heard of at least a dozen stories such as this one. Why am I pissed? Because, crappy decisions like this gets men killed. Maybe it's just me, but f*ck ups aren't tolerated in the field.

[Ratamacue]

When did you feel as though it became necessary to embark on a personal crusade against the CIA?

[NcDeuce]

The days following 9/11. And stories from my dad and his friends who were conducting ops in Afghanistan.

Why are you defending the CIA's screwups? You are a sophomore in high school and you probably don't know any SOF guys who fought and died in Afghanistan, the Philippines, or Iraq.

[ibstolidude]

to whom is that directed?

Please say me or Beowulf! - please tell me I know no SOF who werved in any of those places!

hint hint - check around this website first.

[Ratamacue]

I am defending the CIA because I have chosen to side with Tane and James and others, people who have served in the US Military, have actual military experience, and have met CIA Officers. You haven't.

I've met a CIA officer too. My uncle. Served in SOG in Laos during Vietnam covering the Ho Chi Minh trail. Much more honorable man than you, I must say.

[NcDeuce]

It's directed towards Ratamacue.

Sophomore in high school...who has a chip on his shoulder because his uncle was CIA.

Congrats to your uncle.

But how can you assume he was more honorable of a man than I? You don't even know me. For a 10th grader, who might not even be old enough to drive yet, knocking one's honor is quite a call to make.

But let's talk about personal military experience...

I'm currently a cadet in the #1 ROTC program in the nation, we go on field training excercises with the 5th Special Forces Group and 101st Airborne Division. We get access to the 160th SOAR HQ and its flight simulators. My father is retired Special Ops. All of his friends are also retired SOF. I can't go through all of the names because they're active-duty but I will name a couple. And if you're as smart as you try to sound on these boards, you might recognize these men. He was killed in Afghanistan along with two of his A-Team comrades. MSG Davis, J.D. as we called 'em, was a close friend to my family. Lt. Col. Drew, now a 160th SOAR pilot, Drew was a former Apache pilot assigned to the 101st. He fired the first shots of the first Gulf War from his Apache gunship.

Ho Chi Minh trail, huh? That's not very recent.

[Ratamacue]

Actually, I can drive.

We all know how many people in the SOCOM community you know, and about how very special you are because of it. But that doesn't change the fact that you have never met anyone in the CIA. You can talk all you want about your SOF friends, congratulations.

But an honorable person does not attack a unit, agency, or organization they do not have personal experience with. Maybe I don't have personal experience with the CIA itself, but I do know someone who was in it for quite sometime, even after he wasn't officially working for the government before.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder. Rather, I have a problem with assholes like you that put down an elite unit that has greater training, has been around longer, and has vastly more experience than yourself. The fact that you are in ROTC and know SOF members does not make you an expert on the CIA and its faults. Every single goddamn unit in the United States Military has had ****ups. Yes, even Special Forces, 160th SOAR, all of them.


You don't even know me. For a 10th grader, who might not even be old enough to drive yet, knocking one's honor is quite a call to make.

For a ROTC student in college who has no actual military experience and doesn't know a CIA officer or have experience with the CIA itself, knocking their honor and integrity is quite a call to make.

[NcDeuce]

Quit putting words in my mouth, you dimwit. Read what I have posted. Look to see if I wrote anything about knocking the CIA's honor. I was merely pointing out their screw ups.

The CIA has existed longer than me? No way.

CIA = Elite unit? Listen to yourself.

[Ratamacue]

Dimwit? So now we're resorting to name calling?


CIA intelligence, like in most cases, is bad.

I guess they don't teach CIA agents to never leave a fallen comrade.

How is that not challenging their honor?

[XASA]

Thanks guys for maintaining this thread's integrity by keeping the CIA debate on another one. Up until recently, this was one of the few threads that hasn't turned into a flame war or filled with childish rants about what my daddy and his friends did in the war; hopefully, we can keep it that way.

[Sayeret]

All of the battles listed were pretty amazing. Too bad other ones can't be listed.

[bishop1]

IMO the most important/influental battle would be Thermopylae. In a way its amazing the Greeks could band together long enough to have peace amongst each other to fight a common foe. That in itself was a an awesome ordeal. Thermopylae not only bought another few days for the Greeks to mobilize their main army in Attica, but it gave the feuding Greeks something to have pride in and set the morale very high, as well as instilling mucho nationilistic feelings and a feeling of unity to bring them together for Platea.

And to get totally technical Thermopylae had to happen, for Sparta either had to lose a king in battle or die or be assimilated at the hands of the Persians.

[LeMat]

WIZNA
In 1939 near Wizna polish unit of 720 soldiers under command of captain Wladyslaw Raginis stopped german XIX corp (including 2 tanks divisions, 1 mechanised division and one brigade) which had 42000 soldiers and 350 tanks. The battle took 7 days (3-10 IX 1939) including 2 days of german assault. Almost all polish soldiers died or were murdered by germans. Germans losses are unknown but were very heavy. At least 1 german plane was shoot down.
Poles were fighting in not finished fortifications (without ventilations system!!)


More here (in polish)
http://www.wizna.pl/index.php?wiad=2
The foto on this page shows bunker of captain Raginis.

[Loco]

You are surrounded. There's no relief in sight. Your small unit is outnumbered by at least ten to one. With the exception of one, the outcome is never in doubt-- you will be defeated! Which battle would you rank as the greatest defensive fight in terms of military, political and historical significance.

Thermopylae, where the 300 Spartans fought the Persians to gain time for their fellow Greeks. The Alamo, where a small band of Texicans kept Santa Ana's army at bay until Sam Houston could organize his army. Wake Island, where a Marine battalion kept the Japanese Navy at bay. Cassino, where German paratroopers changed the course of the Italian Campaign in WWII by warding off the entire Allied 5th Army. Or, my choice, Roarke's Drift, where a small British detachment valiantly held off thousands of Zulus. I'm listing small units, which is why you don't see Stalingrad or the Chosin Resoirvoir listed. Are there other battles that were equally as heroic? Please advise.
There are many more significative defensive battle fought by small units than some of those you listed above. I´m sure every country that has a significative military history can list many battles of that kind.
In the case of Spain in XX century, I´d say battle of Belchite in Civil War, it was an small group of rebel troops(they weren´t a sinlge unit but a resume of some units) that held a position in the town of Belchite(Aragon) when they were surmounted by a surprise republican offensive. The defensors were really few, I don´t know exactly the figures, but the fight became a butchery because the position they held was easy to defend, they were quite resolute and battle hardened.
In the late XIX, I´d say the battle of Colinas de San Juan and El Caney in Cuba, in 1898, where a force of under 400 spanish recruits kept the positions under the fire of about 8.000 americans until they used all ammunition and were killed one by one. It´s a rate of 1 spanish agaisnt 20 americans.
Other battles I´d say in the XIX are the siege of Zaragoza city agaisnt Napoleon troops, the french soldiers were more than the people of Zaragoza themselves, most of them civilian. At the end, Zaragoza was taken by frenchs, but the casualties in every side were enormous.
Other significative defensive battle, too forgotten I think, is the siege of Cartagena de Indias(Colombia) in 1741 against the british fleet of admiral Vernon. The defender was admiral Blas de Lezo, who never had been defeated before, and it happened to be the winner again. The forces british had joined were the largest amphibious force ever assembled until that date, and the largest until the XX century. I think this is significative. Spanish had a manpower of 1100 veteran soldiers, 400 inexperienced ones, 600 sailors in six ships, 300 armed militia and 600 irregulars, Indian, black and mulattoes for a defending troop of about 3000 men. British had 50 war vessels, 130 transport and logistic ships, 9000 marines, 2000 macheteros, 15000 sailors and a group of about 2800 Anglo-American soldiers, there were more british soldiers than inhabitants in Cartagena de Indias, but they lost. Blas de Lezo was limper, handless and one-eyed. You can read more here: http://www.agonswim.com/josef/cartagena/
There were many other defensive battles fought by small spanish units in american soil, but I´d name the battle of Otumba, in Mexico, the year of 1520. Spanish soldiers had to retreat from Mexico city after being expelled by the aztec sublevation, after the death of Moctezuma. The retreat, by the night through the channels, was a disaster and the spanish lost the most of their baggage and weapons, and the just arrived soldiers of Narvaez perished. Hernán Cortés and the veterans could survive and they try to arrive to the allied city of Tlaxcala, fighting all the way skirmishes with the aztecs scouts, so they only could walk and fight with no time to rest. Spanish and allied were exhausted and ill and at last they were encircled in the plain of Otumba, about 500 spanish and 2.000 allied tlaxcaltecas, agaisnt the whole aztec army, that were about 150.000. Spanish troops formed the square figure, the only weapons they had were swords and peaks, and tried to advance through the crowd of aztecs warriors or just helding the position in the plain, but in any case they dared to break the square. The spanish cavalry were 13 riders, Hernán Cortés one of them, that rode from corner to corner of the square reinforcing the weakest points. They resisted the whole day, but slowly the square was thiner beacuse of the deaths and the injured ones, and Cortés organized a desperate attack. Among the waves of aztecs, spanish could observe the aztec general on the top of a hill in a litter held by his servants, in a supposed safe and far position. Cortés and the 12 riders began a long race and charged up the hill and Cortés stuck his javelin in the aztec general and the riders grasped the aztec banners and showed it from the top of the hill to the human crowd in the plain. It was so surprising that aztec soldiers were terrified and they suddenly flew away and spanish could reach Tlaxcala and survive. It was the turning point in the conquest of Mexico. The rated was about 1 agaisnt 60 in this case.
Other defensive battle fought by a small unit I thik is the battle of Numancia, it was fought by celt-iberian soldiers ot that city agaisnt the roman legions. The war was very long, and legions had failed, in one occasion Numancia army had captured the whole army of Mancino, a legion with his 20.000 soldiers. Ultimately the Roman Senate sent Publio Escipion Emiliano to win the war. Escipion had a human force of 60.000 legionairs, and Numancia(it was a small city) had 4.000 defensors. Of course Rome conquered Numancia, but the defense of the city was so long and bloody, the resources employed by a strong empire for defeating a small city were so big that I think this battle was more significative than any other of the battles I listed above. Numancia people never surrendered or gave up, they just fought until the end, men, women and boys. Roman had its experienced army, and all kind of war machines, but it needed nine months and the strenght of hunger for defeating a city of 7.000 inhabitants.

[oldsoak]

Me trying to keep the wife away from my pay cheque.

[Loco]

Me trying to keep the wife away from my pay cheque.
I´m looking for a richer wife. ;)

[Para]

There is a little known battle in the Western Desert in 1942 at a place called El Tamar where a force of eight guns and 200 men fought 20,000
men of Rommel's much vaunted Africa Corps, and drove them back. At the end of the battle there where just 12 men left alive out of the 200 and only five remained unwounded. This action probably stopped Rommel from taking the whole of Egypt, and yet it is never ever mentioned in the history books.

[Minardiau]

There is alot more battles that could be included.

Operation Rhine: Germany sent the Bismarck and Prinze Eugen on a sortie into the the Atlantic. Once spotted it was a race to get to France. Result. Hood sunk, Prince of Wales severly damaged, Sheffield damaged, Norfalk damaged and 2 destroyers were sunk in the subsequent chase. The British virtually sent it's entire martime assets it could to sink the Bismarck. Germans only had 2 ships in the fight. A Battleship and a super cruiser.

Battle of the Java Sea: A Australian, American, Dutch cruiser force were suprised and sunk by a vastly superior force of Japanese Heavy Cruisers and Destroyers. Allied force was destroyed but it did hold it's own for quite some time before overwhelming firepower one the day.

Kokoda Trail: Although basically a very large force engagement. It was basically though at company strength due to the nature of the terrain. In some places fighting took place when men were in single file walking up a track. Japanese had 16,000 troops or there abouts at their disposal. Australian forces during the initial withdrawel numbered no more then 2000 thousend. It was your typical fighting withdrawel until the Japanese ran out of steam and were sent back over the mountains. There was a number of battles that held up overwhelming force for a number of days on both sides.

[Auzzzie]

http://www.jahitchcock.com/kokoda.html

Read that mate, that is full of Australian courage.

quotes:
"After four days of non-stop and often hand-to-hand fighting in which over 500 Japanese were killed"

"Brigadier Potts had roughly 1000 men against over 6000 Japanese."

Small story, this man recieved the Victoria Cross.

"In another Australian position, Corporal Lindsay Bear took command after his officer had been killed and his Sergeant wounded. The situation seemed hopeless as the Japanese threatened to break through the Australian position and overrun the whole battalion. The wounded Corporal Bear was manning a bren gun and was weak from blood loss. He passed the gun to the man next to him , Private Bruce Kingsbury (pictured at the right). Suddenly, Kingsbury leapt up, and firing the bren from his hip, charged the Japanese positions through a storm of enemy machine gun fire. He cleared a path of 100 meters before being shot down by a sniper. Kingsbury’s action stopped the Japanese breakthrough and restored the battalions position. Kingsbury was awarded Australia’s highest medal for bravery, the Victoria Cross. Later his mates said he’d thrown his life away to save theirs."

Yep, I would have voted for Kokoda if it had been there. To top it off it was (at the beginning) a small number of half trained militia against battle hardened and experienced soldiers who had already had a number of victories and they had superior equipment and a mountain gun. :P

[MEGR]

Thermopylae is a good one. Just to mention others... I think that the Battle of Mogadishu and Bastogne are also good ones.

Also, there were numerous battles during Vietnam that were defensive and uneven in terms of manpower.

[callous]

Out of the choices given I voted for Roarke's Drift. 139 British soldiers defeated the 5,000 Zulus, all on thier own.

[iflu]

i know a defend,but they were all dead...

[<Gypsum Fantastic>]

Out of the choices given I voted for Roarke's Drift. 139 British soldiers defeated the 5,000 Zulus, all on thier own.


x2 and they had little to no hope of rescue. The Zulu's stopped attacking not because backup arrived, but because of too may losses. And especially because the british soldiers were annhialated in a previous more even battle!

[Freibier]

Termophylae hands down.

[penna]

you could make a case for the charge of the 1st Minnesota at the Battle of *****sburg. General ******* needed 5 minutes to get troops on Cemetary Ridge, in the center of the Union line. The only unit there was the 1st Minnesota regiment. He told the commander to get the colors of the oncoming confederate brigade. 262 Minnesotans charged into in one Reb brigade, sent them reeling, then crashed into another one before being decimated. A captain and 47 survivors came back to *******, but they had bought him 10 minutes, enough to plug the line and get ready for the oncoming confederates.

[Mike 1-3]

There have undoubtedly been many, many desperate and courageous actions in the last 8000 years of organized warfare. I doubt many of them ever get mentioned in any history book - nevertheless, I raise a salute to every soldier who believed in his cause or in his comrades enough to die for them.

Thanks for sharing many amazing stories of heroism I've never heard of, and here's my contribution. Some years back I studied Russo-Finnish Continuation War, ie. the Second World War. One story caught my attention:

During massive Russian offensive in summer 1944, as the Finnish lines reeled back in full retreat and Stalin was determined to make Finland a Soviet state, many old soldiers who had been released from active duty during relatively quiet years of 42-43 were hastily recalled as replacements to stem the Red tide. One such reservist company, mostly made up of local farmers and tradesmen in their forties and fifties and poorly equipped with anything else than their small arms, was deployed on a small hill overlooking a major river in the Karelian Isthmus, direct route from Leningrad to Finland. As the Russian advance was faster than anticipated, their hill quickly became hotly contested as it overlooked the remaining Finnish bridgehead on the eastern bank.

As the Red Army bombarded the hill with everything it had and an assault was imminent, the men - husbands all, fathers most - decided that come hell or high water, they would not retreat one inch from their ancestral lands.

Two days later, two crack Russian divisions, attacking with great courage several times in a day, had been unable to dislodge the defenders. On the second nightfall, all their ammunition spent, eight wounded men braved the river and returned to Finnish lines to tell the tale. They were all that was left from a company of over 120 men.

That price had been enough to buy two invaluable days for their comrades-in-arms.

Finland was never occupied.



I have forgotten details and probably there are several errors in the story, but nevertheless, I wish that (heaven forbid) were I in a equally difficult situation, I would have as much courage as these men had.



Still, for historical significance and for pure "stuff of legends"-factor, my vote goes to Thermopylae. Although have to agree that level 27 in Beach Head is a bit tricky too ;).

[Minardiau]

Another battle we missed out on was the Seige of Fort Drumm.

It was a Fort on the entrance to Manilla Bay and was armed with 4 14inch guns and was dubbed "The Concrete Battleship" because of the way it was built. It did actually look like a warship.

Anyway it had a garrison of 120 men and at the time of the surrender of Corrigdor (spelling) it still had a vast quantity of men, ammunition, food and water to sustain itself for a very long time.

Unfortunatly it dident happen since the Forts commander surrended incase of reprisals against the POW's who had already surrended in Bataan and Corrigor.

If you have ever seen a photo of it. The Japs would of had an extremely hard time in taking it. And bombing it into sumbission was out of the question do to the shear thickness of the concrete. Seaborne assault would of been hard since the enemy would of had to scale vertical concrete walls to get on top and enemy boats would of had a hard time of it due to the 14"inch guns which were in battleship turrets but with thicker armour.

[Laconian]

One could make an argument for a multitude of decisive defensive engagements (Chamberlain & the 20th Maine at the Little Round Top comes to mind, but is that a battle within a battle?) of the battles listed in the poll, I vote for Thermopylae for two reasons. First, the battle was decisive. The stand of the 300 Spartans (& their Greek compatriots about 8000-10000 combined forces) against nearly 275,000 - 300,000 Persians (and their armies) allowed both a sense nationalism to form a Greek alliance that would defeat Xerxes, and supplied a valuable delaying action for the forces to be mustered. So even though the Spartans, et al, are destroyed to a man (save those Leonidus sent away on the last day), they are a major contributing factor for the battle to come.

Secondly, as has been pointed out in a previous post, Thermopylae may be the pivotal battle that shaped the world. There are many historians that equate the stand at Thermopylae with saving the Western world. Imagine if Xerxes and the Persians had conquered Greece? The entire face of the world today would be different. So as far as a definitive, heard around the world battle, Thermopylae gets my vote.

[bishop1]

One could make an argument for a multitude of decisive defensive engagements (Chamberlain & the 20th Maine at the Little Round Top comes to mind, but is that a battle within a battle?) of the battles listed in the poll, I vote for Thermopylae for two reasons. First, the battle was decisive. The stand of the 300 Spartans (& their Greek compatriots about 8000-10000 combined forces) against nearly 275,000 - 300,000 Persians (and their armies) allowed both a sense nationalism to form a Greek alliance that would defeat Xerxes, and supplied a valuable delaying action for the forces to be mustered. So even though the Spartans, et al, are destroyed to a man (save those Leonidus sent away on the last day), they are a major contributing factor for the battle to come.

Secondly, as has been pointed out in a previous post, Thermopylae may be the pivotal battle that shaped the world. There are many historians that equate the stand at Thermopylae with saving the Western world. Imagine if Xerxes and the Persians had conquered Greece? The entire face of the world today would be different. So as far as a definitive, heard around the world battle, Thermopylae gets my vote.

Excactly, with the other battles you cant say any one of them did/would have shaped history the way Thermopylae did.

[Nationalist]

None of the above.

First Siege of Diu (India) (16th century)

Portuguese vs Turks


"The bullet that was a tooth
It is sometimes in chronicles written by foreigners that for some centuries have studied Portuguese History, that some interesting details are found.

A Dutch priest, Philippus Baldaeus, who accompanied the Dutch fleets that fought the Portuguese in the Indic Ocean, tells a most interesting story:

During the first Siege of Diu, a Portuguese soldier who was manning one of the bastions of the fortress that was being attacked by the Turks, found himself as the only survivor, having used all bullets but still having some gun powder for one more shot, and finding nothing else to charge his firearm with, decided to extract one of his own tooth and armed the weapon with it, firing against the enemy that was considering he was out of ammunitions.
"

http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/history.htm


Now try to imagine what would be like to be THAT desperate.

Painfull too.

[Marmot1]

'Maczuga', closing the 'Falaise pocket', 19-21 August, 1944

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35969

The Balance-sheet of this fearful confrontation:

The Poles, who went into this fight with eighty-seven Sherman tanks against all the remaining weaponry of the German Seventh army surrounded on the plain of Tournai ? Aubry ? St-Lambert, lost 325 dead, 16 of whom were officers, 1,002 wounded and 114 missing. Eleven tanks were destroyed.
The Germans had about 2,000 killed, 5,000 taken prisoner, including a general, six colonels and 80 officers. They left on the battlefield 55 tanks, of which 14 were Panthers and 6 Tigers, 44 guns and 152 armoured vehicles, 359 vehicles of all types were destroyed.

out of 86 officers only one was unscratched...Canadian liason officer ;-)
rest of them were more or les wounded or dead... intersting fact are that many Germans POW were Poles impresed to wermacht (you know in 1944 germans were short of men and impresed anyone whose same sounded even little German) many of those POWs were given option to fight in polish ranks and finished battle on polish side !!!. Also due to lack of ammo most soldiers finished fight with german weapons in hands...



Polish Armoured division served as a cap to closse pocket... all germans who retreeted had to move through it... there were 19 german divisions traped there... (joint British Canadian and US effort) Polish Div and especially 24 Lanciers Batalion (?) closed gab betwen pincers and sealed off remaining germans )many escaped before closing gap and many sliped away later but they left almost all heavy equipment...

[USMC-Congbuster]

what about Guam in the opening stages of the ww2? There were between 100-200 marines garrisoning the island that fought a ****ing japanese invasion force of about 5 or 6 thousand (could be wrong) to the death.

Or during the boxer rebellion when Gysgt Dan Daly held off over a hundred enemy attackers over 3 days pretty much by himself.

[centa]

What about the british siege of Italian fort of Giarabub in WW2?
months under a complete siege.....[/img]

[MEGR]

Anyone read SOG by John Plaster? I don't have the book anymore, but he described a hugely one sided battle. A recon team of about 14 men deliberately deployed on a hill, in enemy territory, and engaged a force of I think 2 battalions of NVA troops. That's nuts!

[M1A2U2]

Roarkes drift definatly. The fact that they were just engineers makes it even more amazing. Also the falklands war. Dont forget the British turned out to crush the argentines out numbered 3 to 1 and mostly through use of ground troops. Dont forget the battle of New Orleans. I think it was like 12 americans killed while there were 7000 british killed. Or more recently in Basra when the british fixed bayonets and charged the insurgents.

[Shadow]

many German soldiers refused entering the ghetto at night (for fear of Jewish ghost

Rofl lol

[roland]

Hi

Nobody named Bir Hakeim ?
This battle has a great importance for the French but is also quite important military speaking as it enabled the British 8th Army to withdraw in good order then later be able to counter attck at el-alamein.

Here is the most reliable french version ;)

http://www.charles-de-gaulle.org/article.php3?id_article=159

The Battle of Bir Hakeim

At the end of May 1942, the Free French 1st brigade occupied the southern sector of the British 8th Army's deployment in Libya, facing German and Italian Axis troops. This was a key point on the extreme left of the position since it could prevent any potential encirclement from the south of Allied forces retreating in disarray from the defeat and the fall of Tobruk that had opened the road to Cairo for the German tanks.

On 27 May 1942, the position of Bir Hakeim came under attack from the Italian "Ariete" armoured division and was engaged in fierce fighting that even reached into the interior of the stronghold. The enemy was driven back, leaving 40 tanks on the field.

From 1 to 10 June the position came under methodical attack and was completely surrounded by German and Italian forces in vastly superior numbers. General Rommel, in command of the enemy forces, endeavoured to remove the obstacle barring his advance. General Koenig, commanding the French brigade, responded to an ultimatum from Rommel calling upon him to surrender, with the words, "We are not here to surrender".

Despite the most intense artillery fire and aerial bombardment, the brigade held off every enemy attack, gave not an inch of ground and inflicted heavy casualties on the enemy.
The incredible boldness of a group of volunteers from the "Train" (transport corps) enabled a convoy of 30 lorries to reach the position under cover of night. By 10 June, however, supplies of water, food and ammunition were virtually exhausted. The garrison was given the order to retreat by the commander of the British 8th Army. During the night of 10 to 11 June, the brigade broke through the encircling enemy lines by sheer force, negotiating mine fields and bringing back its wounded and any equipment still usable.

By holding out for far longer than could have been hoped, in a feat which won worldwide acclaim, the Free French 1st Brigade had enabled the British 8th Army to withdraw in good order and had won the time needed to prepare for a reversal of the situation at El Alamein. For the French population labouring under German oppression, it confirmed their faith in their destiny and in ultimate victory. The Resistance inside France, under Jean Moulin and Christian Pineau, joined with Free France to create a single Fighting France.

The military cemetery on the site of the battle itself has been maintained in memory of those who fell. It is reached by a track, lined with crosses of Lorraine, that runs from El Adem.

Because of its isolation, the 182 bodies it once contained have been transferred to El Adem alongside the bodies of the first four French soldiers to fall at Cyrenaica on 21 January 1941, and those of the six men who lost their lives in the in the Khufra raid led by General Leclerc.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the "official" english version you can find all over the web, obviously with mistakes:

The Battle of Bir Hakeim (May 26, 1942 - June 11, 1942) was fought, during
World War II, between the German/Italian Afrika Korps and the Free French
Foreign Legion, with support from the British 7th Armored Division. The
German commander was Feldmarschall Erwin Rommel and the French commander was
General Pierre Koenig.

The Germans attacked Bir Hakeim on May 26. Over the next two weeks, the
Luftwaffe flew 1,400 sorties against the defenses, whilst 4 German/Italian
divisions attacked. On June 2, 3, and 5, the German forces requested that
Koenig surrender, he refused and launched counterattacks with his Bren gun
carrierss. Despite the explosion of the defence's ammo dump, the French
continued to fight using ammo brought in by British armored cars during the
night. Meanwhile, the Royal Air Force dropped water and other supplies.

On June 9, the Eighth Army authorized a retreat and during the night of June
10/June 11 the defenders of Bir Hakeim escaped.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
And here an other English version LOL rofl

May 26, 1942 In History
Event:
Tank battle at Bir Hakeim: African corps vs British army

http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1942/may_26_1942_101134.html

[BlackFlag]

good examples...but one you forgot....Audie Murphy...

[Ratamacue]

you could make a case for the charge of the 1st Minnesota at the Battle of *****sburg. General ******* needed 5 minutes to get troops on Cemetary Ridge, in the center of the Union line. The only unit there was the 1st Minnesota regiment. He told the commander to get the colors of the oncoming confederate brigade. 262 Minnesotans charged into in one Reb brigade, sent them reeling, then crashed into another one before being decimated. A captain and 47 survivors came back to *******, but they had bought him 10 minutes, enough to plug the line and get ready for the oncoming confederates.
How about the 20th Maine holding Little Round Top? Already low on ammo, severely undermanned, assaulted multiple times by multiple Confederate regiments, ran almost entirely out of ammo and made a bayonet charge down the hill to defeat the attacking force.

[Marmot1]

what about Guam in the opening stages of the ww2? There were between 100-200 marines garrisoning the island that fought a f*** japanese invasion force of about 5 or 6 thousand (could be wrong) to the death.

Or during the boxer rebellion when Gysgt Dan Daly held off over a hundred enemy attackers over 3 days pretty much by himself.

They did not fight to the death... most of them surenderd and survived... altrough for propaganda purposes film was made where they all died heroically.... There was some misunderstanding.. commander fo island defense was sure that they are loosing and decided to surrender not knowing that Japanese assault was repulsed...

[S'13]

In the 1973 Yom Kippur War, some 150 Israeli tanks stopped invading Syrian columns - with more than 1,400 tanks - in the "bottleneck" Valley of Tears pass in the north, and the pass through the volcanic hills in the south.

The surprised and vastly outnumbered Israeli troops held off the invaders for the 48 hours that were required to mobilize and deploy the necessary forces that ultimately beat back and defeated the Syrian aggressors.

There is also the famous story of Zvika Gringold (Zvika Force) who fought in the Golan front in 1973 for over 30 hours and it is estimated that he destroyed some 60 Syrian tanks single-handedly.

[Ratamacue]

what about Guam in the opening stages of the ww2? There were between 100-200 marines garrisoning the island that fought a f*** japanese invasion force of about 5 or 6 thousand (could be wrong) to the death.

Or during the boxer rebellion when Gysgt Dan Daly held off over a hundred enemy attackers over 3 days pretty much by himself.

They did not fight to the death... most of them surenderd and survived... altrough for propaganda purposes film was made where they all died heroically.... There was some misunderstanding.. commander fo island defense was sure that they are loosing and decided to surrender not knowing that Japanese assault was repulsed...
I don't know anything about Guam, but you might be thinking of Wake Island, Marmot. That's where a battallion of Marines held off a Japanese invasion force for 2 weeks, sunk several ships, repulsed one Japanese assault, and despite mostly holding them at bay during the second, their CO was in a bunker and lost contact with most of his men, and so decided to surrender because he thought the island was overrun.

[Easy C.]

I was going to say, Australia in Tobruk and that thing we did in Singapore during WW2.

[NicNZ]

Well the Turks did an exceptional job of holding Gallipoli against the ANZACs in the first world war... of course they were helped by the fact that the british were SHELLING THE ANZACs FROM BEHIND once the NZers and Australians took the high ground :P

[moughoun]

the Gloster regiment in the Korean war probably the finest example of unit bravery according to alot of people.........who were there

[TheKiwi]

Thermopylae got my vote too, even though I had relatives at Cassino.

[OldRecon]

Wouldn't exactly call Thermopylae a small unit battle though.

As for last stands like Rooke's drift and Alamo, one could also have mentioned the Camerone battle of the French foreign legion in Mexican war of the 1860's.

[ogukuo72]

Thermopylae, hands down. 300 Spartans vs. what, 200,000 Persians? THOSE are some odds...

This is not strictly accurate. The original odds of 20,000 Greeks vs 200,000 Persians were staggering enough, but they were holding a narrow pass behind a low wall, that forced the Persians to funnel their forces into a very narrow front. They managed to hold off the Persians for three whole days.

The glorious last stand of the 300 Spartans took place only at the end of the three-day battle, when a Greek traitor led a contingent of Persians over a mountain trail to outflank the Greek defensive position. The Spartan King and his contingent of bodyguards then offered to stay as a rear guard to allow the rest of the Greeks to escape.

An interesting point was that the Greeks had not been very united before this battle, and some of them were reluctant to fight. After the last stand by the 300, those who were not willing to fight were shamed into joining in the cause.

It is said that that last stand not only saved the Greek cities from Persian domination, but also the whole of the Western civilisation that evolved from the Greeks.

My vote is for the 300.

[machupichu]

why not make a vote to see how many guys have heard "Thermopylae" for the first time?

this vote is damn stupid, its like "whos more intelligent, americans or canadians" :roll: you just cannot compare situations with 1) unreliable source 2) different odds




for example: if a castle with 10 defenders is besieged by an army of 100.000 but those take their time and let 1 week pass for preparations (maybe not knowing the enemys numbers), does that mean the 10 defenders performed an outstanding defensive?? that "Thermopylae" thing is so naive, how can anyone believe this?????

[ZaakM433]

why not make a vote to see how many guys have heard "Thermopylae" for the first time?

this vote is damn stupid, its like "whos more intelligent, americans or canadians" :roll: you just cannot compare situations with 1) unreliable source 2) different odds




for example: if a castle with 10 defenders is besieged by an army of 100.000 but those take their time and let 1 week pass for preparations (maybe not knowing the enemys numbers), does that mean the 10 defenders performed an outstanding defensive?? that "Thermopylae" thing is so naive, how can anyone believe this?????

1 thats why its a poll

2 your example is stupid

3 (obligatory ad hominem) you're stupid!

It would be better to say about thermopylae, rather than "how can anyone believe this???", "WHY does almost everyone believe this??"
Maybe then you will find your answer, if you really look.

[sharpe]

okay, I voted for Rorke's drift, but I'm also recalling something about a British post in Malaysia that was attacked by the Indonesians during the war there in the 1960s

[oregongrunt]

Battle of New Orleans, Jackass

[plodey]

Battle of Kokoda, New Guinea WW2.

Half-trained Australian militia v's huge majority of elite Japanese marines.

----------

Battle of Britain..... British fighters vs might of the German luftwaffe

[sp2c]

the Gorgonites vs the Commando elite



Alan, son of a Toy Store owner, tries out some new action figures: The Commando Elite vs. The Gorgonites. What he does not know, is that both sets of toys were designed to move, talk and play back. The Commando Elite's purpose is to destroy the Gorgonites. Unfortunately, the toy designer who was responsible for the programming, bought highly intelligent military computer chips that are usually used for steering missiles - and are able to learn. Now, the Commando Elite, led by Major Chip Hazard, is up to destroying the Gorgonites, led by peaceful Archer, who hide in Alan's parent's house. Now, a battle, in which the destructive ability of creative computer chips against creative computer chips with a different attitude comes to light, is about to begin

[Easy C.]

the Gorgonites vs the Commando elite



Alan, son of a Toy Store owner, tries out some new action figures: The Commando Elite vs. The Gorgonites. What he does not know, is that both sets of toys were designed to move, talk and play back. The Commando Elite's purpose is to destroy the Gorgonites. Unfortunately, the toy designer who was responsible for the programming, bought highly intelligent military computer chips that are usually used for steering missiles - and are able to learn. Now, the Commando Elite, led by Major Chip Hazard, is up to destroying the Gorgonites, led by peaceful Archer, who hide in Alan's parent's house. Now, a battle, in which the destructive ability of creative computer chips against creative computer chips with a different attitude comes to light, is about to begin



**** YES!!!

[Rantanplan]

negative

[Hugh Jardon]

In 1941 somewhere SW of Minsk a Russian KV-1 tank sat at a crossroads and held up an entire German division and supplies for almost a week.

A single KV-1. They finally killed it by attacking with 50 tanks from 3 sides and an 88 hit it in the rear.

There is also the story of Vasiley Orlikov who with 13 other men prevented the Germans from using a small forest road west of Moscow for almost 3 weeks. The Germans finally overran the position using 3 companies of Landser and 5 tanks. The soldiers had a tree with a crack in it and on the last day they put their Id's, their last letters home and some personal effects there. All died but 2, one managed to escape and tell the story and the second man died in a German prison camp.

[LazerLordz]

Singapore WW2,1st and 2nd Battalion of the Malay Regiment fought fearlessly to defend Pasir Panjang Ridge. These 42 men held off the Chrysanthemum Division of the Japanese Imperial Army for two days before being wiped out.

[Sgt.Snatchgrabber]

Anyone read SOG by John Plaster? I don't have the book anymore, but he described a hugely one sided battle. A recon team of about 14 men deliberately deployed on a hill, in enemy territory, and engaged a force of I think 2 battalions of NVA troops. That's nuts!

I read the book, and I think you may remember wrong. The engagement you're describing is at Highway 110 in Laos where about 100 soldiers (part of a hatchet force) basically dug into a hill and waiting in ambush to fracture the NVA supply lines. The Americans killed about 300 NVA in the battalion sized forced while only suffering about 20 dead themselves.

I personally don't think the battle was that onsided considering the Americans not only had a better defensive position but they were also aided by aircraft and artillery. Thats probably why the battle shouldn't make the list.

[ogukuo72]

There's this story of how an American recce platoon held off an entire Germany army for 24 hours during the Battle of the Bulge.

Any additional info?

[Biomech]

Brest Litowsk or so during the first days of Operation Barbarossa.

[Keith]

French Foreign Legion's Alamo
65 French Legionnaires vs 2000 mexicans !
April 30th is celebrated as Camerone Day by the Foreign Legion.
Since then, when Mexican troops pass by the monument, they present arms.

QVOS HIC NON PLVS LX
ADVERSI TOTIVS AGMINIS
MOLES CONSTRAVIT
VITA PRIAM QUAM VIRTVS
MILITES DESERVIT GALLICOS
DIE XXX MENSI APR. ANNI MDCCCLXIII

HERE, THEY WERE LESS THAN SIXTY
AGAINST A WHOLE ARMY
ITS NUMBER CRUSHED THEM
BUT LIFE RATHER THAN BRAVERY
LEFT THESE FRENCH MEN
ON THE 30TH OF APRIL 1863.


On April 29, 1863, the 3rd Company of the 1st Battalion was ordered to accompany a column from Vera Cruz to Peubla as one leg of a very long journey for a very valuable cargo - gold bullion, some three million francs, to pay the French army of the interior. There were other items of significance scattered amid the 60 carts and 150 mules, but everyone knew that it was likely that knowledge of the gold would become widespread before the column cleared the city gates. Worse than that, the 3rd Company, whose normal complement was three officers and 112 men, was reduced by nearly half due to illness. All three officers and 50 men were unfit for duty when the company was given the assignment. The battalion adjutant major, Captain Jean Danjou, an experienced soldier who sported a flowing mustache and thick goatee, offered to assume command. He was a good choice. Courageous, an excellent combat officer, he had lost a hand in Algiers and wore a wooden hand to replace it.

Early on the morning of the 30th of April the column set out from the village of Chiquihuite and made its way, route-step, toward Puebla. Danjou stationed himself in the road with a small party and the pack mules; one hundred yards on either side of him were two equal columns of Legionnaires. They were a colorful lot; Havelock's and white kepis long since stained with dust, red, baggy wool pantaloons, and blue, red-trimmed tunics darkened with sweat, with bright red epaulettes setting squarely across the Legionnaires shoulders. They could have been better armed of course - the 70 caliber smoothbore musket carried quite a punch but the range was limited. And it was rumored that the Juarists had been well supplied with modern American weapons. But no matter, they carried bayonets and every good French soldier knew the importance of bravery and cold steel

At about 7 a.m. they passed the nearly destroyed village of Cameron. Danjou noted that the only structures that still stood were portions of a stonewall, a deserted farmhouse or inn, and several outbuildings. Nearly a mile down the road, Danjou called the columns in and ordered the men to rest and fix coffee. Despite the early hour, the heat and dust had taken its toll on the Legionnaires, and they had had nothing to eat since the previous evening. Water for their coffee had just come to a boil when call-to-arms was sounded with cries that enemy cavalry was approaching. The men snatched their muskets and formed ranks but in the confusion the mules bearing their extra ammunition and supplies bolted off.

Danjou quickly took stock of the situation. There were several hundred mounted Juarists forming into position to attack him and it was obvious that the tiny band of Legionnaires would be overwhelmed in the first charge. Captain Danjou formed a rectangle, and using the dense clumps of thickets that dotted the barren landscape as natural abatis, keeping them between his enemy and his pitiful band, he moved slowly back to Cameron. When the Juarists came too close, Danjou stopped the rectangle, ordered a volley, and then set out again for the sanctuary of a few stone buildings.

If Danjou had known what he was facing as he and his tiny command backtracked down the Peubla road, he might have been truly concerned. The few hundred horsemen were really 800 horsemen followed closely by 1,200 infantry under Colonel Milan. The redoubtable French captain also lost 16 of his men (apparently separated and captured during the retreat), which left him with 49 officers and men. And the Juarists, guessing his intention, had beaten him to Cameron. Several enemy sharp shooters were stationed in the second story of the farmhouse and began firing as Danjou's men poured into the courtyard. Knowing that he could not defend the walls with the enemy snipers behind him, Danjou fell back to the rough collection of outbuildings and portions of the stonewall to fight it out. The enemy immediately obliged him. Twice the Juarist cavalry charged but it was impossible for them to maneuver properly in the cramped courtyard. Both times they were forced back.

At about 9 a.m. Colonel Milan approached under a flag of truce and demanded that Danjou surrender, pointing out that he had two thousand men poised to attack the Legionnaires. Danjou refused the demand and the attack resumed. Musket smoke boiled within the interior of the outbuildings as the Legionnaires, loaded and fired; the barrels of their muskets almost too hot to handle. Men were numb from heat and exhaustion and the din of battle. Danjou, despite his own thirst, made his way from Legionnaire to Legionnaire, comforting them. They had little water and any attempt to reach a well on the far side of the house was suicide.

The enemy began their attacks again, trying to drive a wedge into the defender's makeshift fortress but the small courtyard forced the attackers directly into the fire of the Legionnaires. The Juarists fell back and as Danjou was urging his men on, a sniper shot him. Lieutenant Vilian, the hated paymaster, now became the commander of the pitiful force. It must have been Danjou who inspired him, or the defiance of men who faced certain death, or perhaps the qualities that make some men Legionnaires, but Vilian called to his soldiers: "Mes enfants! I command you now. We may die, but never will surrender." Vilian led the dwindling band of Legionnaires for nearly four hours after the death of his captain, but he too was killed, falling as the enemy rushed the Legionnaires.

It was Maudet's turn to command, and he again refused Milan's demand to surrender. After another attack Milan approached the Legionnaires under a flag of truce and the scene that greeted him was nearly indescribable. Dead and wounded Legionnaires were sprawled throughout the interior of the outbuildings and the putrid odor of death filled the air. Thousands of flies buzzed frantically, gorging themselves on the dead flesh of the bloated, stiffening bodies. The wounded cried out for water in pitiful, hoarse whispers, but there was none to give them. Facing Milan, barely able to stand, was Maudet and 12 Legionnaires. No surrender, Maudet said, and Milan returned to his position. Within the hour Milan ordered another attack, but this like the others, was driven off. It had taken its toll on the Legionnaires, however; now all that remained was Maudet and five enlisted men. They had gone through the pouches of their fallen comrades, desperately looking for ammunition. They had only one round apiece; but they had their bayonets. "Load," Maudet ordered. "At my command, fire. Then follow me through the breach. We'll end this with our bayonets." They formed a wedge, with Maudet at the apex, fired a volley, and charged into the mass of Juarists. The enraged enemy, caught up in the frenzy of battle, surrounded the tiny group and literally clubbed them to the earth.

Colonel Milan fought his way to the scene of the one-sided battle and saved his men from tearing the Legionnaires to pieces. Just two of the six survived, with the 16 men captured earlier and one Legionnaire captured during the fight itself. The Juarists lost approximately 300 killed and 300 wounded.

Such incidents fade from memory, pushed off the pages of history books by more monumental occurrences. There is no theme for historians to discuss, and the battle is hardly a watershed as events go. For the Legionnaire there remains a plaque with a few words on it, and a celebration on the anniversary of the battle. Perhaps the Legionnaires understand that such encounters are not usually commemorated outside of the Legion, and therefore people would know very little about Cameron. There is tangible evidence of the day that saw 65 Legionnaires stand off 2,000 Juarists; a relic preserved by the Legion - Danjou's wooden hand found shortly after the battle.

[taiaha]

okay, I voted for Rorke's drift, but I'm also recalling something about a British post in Malaysia that was attacked by the Indonesians during the war there in the 1960s

The Battle of Plaman Mapu.

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Borneo/Plaman.html

[gaijinsamurai]

Cholm and Velikiye Luki, 1942. Two seiges endured by pretty much the same unit.

[Lt. Wittmann]

Villers Bocage, quite a stunt that Wittmann and his lone tank managed to pull off, completely halting the Desert Rats advance. Dunno if this counts as one of your battles you are looking for, but it was nevertheless quite a feat.

[gaijinsamurai]

Although the besieged were not a small unit, the encircled Germans in the Cherkassy-Korsun Pocket in 1944 deserve mention.
For a good narration of the encirclement (caused largely by Hitler's micromanagement and refusing Manstien to withdraw the two corps to a better defensive position), relief efforts, and breakout, I recommend Paul Carell's "Scorched Earth" and Leon DeGrelle's "Campaign in Russia". DeGrelle's "Wallonien" brigade of Belgian fascists were attached to the 5th SS "Wiking" division during the battle.

[CHERK]

Брестская Крепость-Герой.
Brest Fortress Defence.

http://www.brest.by/ct/page3e.html

[isthvan]

The battle of Siget
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Szigetv%C3%A1r

"-siege of small fort located in Siget, Hungary in 1566 between the defending forces of the Hasburg monarchy under the leadership of Croatian ban Nikola Subic Zrinski and the invading Army of the Ottoman Empire under Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent.

The entrenched Croatian forces of Zrinski," two thousand and three hundreds of them..." held off large Ottoman army(more then 90 000man and 300 cannons) for several weeks. Despite being undermanned and greatly outnumbered, the imperial army didnt send them any reinforcementes from Vienna.

All but 7 defenders died while Ottoman Army suffered heavy losses, estimated at 18 000 cavalryman and 7000 elite janissaries troops. yet probably the biggest collatoral loss was the death of Suleiman of Manificent from heart attack during the siege. All this deterred that years Ottoman push for Vienna..."

[siberian tiger]

Troy vs Greece :)

[siberian tiger]

This is not strictly accurate. The original odds of 20,000 Greeks vs 200,000 Persians were staggering enough, but they were holding a narrow pass behind a low wall, that forced the Persians to funnel their forces into a very narrow front. They managed to hold off the Persians for three whole days.

The glorious last stand of the 300 Spartans took place only at the end of the three-day battle, when a Greek traitor led a contingent of Persians over a mountain trail to outflank the Greek defensive position. The Spartan King and his contingent of bodyguards then offered to stay as a rear guard to allow the rest of the Greeks to escape.

An interesting point was that the Greeks had not been very united before this battle, and some of them were reluctant to fight. After the last stand by the 300, those who were not willing to fight were shamed into joining in the cause.

It is said that that last stand not only saved the Greek cities from Persian domination, but also the whole of the Western civilisation that evolved from the Greeks.

My vote is for the 300.

x2

SPARTANS STRONG!!!!!! ;)

"the whole of the western civilisation"
what battle can challenge that???

[achilles]

I voted for the Battle of Thermopyles. 300 Spartans supported by about 700 Thespians. Numbers on Persian troops are moot but the Hellenes were outnumbered by 3 times, at least.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

The battle of Wizna: 6-10 September 1939

Polish reinforced batallion (720 men, 6 76mm guns, 24 HMGs, 18 machine guns, 2 AT rifles, 6 concrete bunkers and 6 lighter pillboxes)

vs.

German XIXth Panzer Corps (42 000 men, 350 tanks, 108 howitzers, 58 field guns, 108 mortars, 288 HMGs).

Approximate force ratio- 40:1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wizna

[Dekameron]

I'm sorry but Mount Cassino doesnt even qualify here, how does a significant, well prepared, extremely well equipped and entrenched force in an enviroment that favours the defenders count ?

The same numbers of any of the allied armies would account for themselves just as good not to mention that Mount Cassino was only one of the central points in an entire defence line so its not a classical last stand.

I vote Thermopylae.

[Canuck Farrier]

Chuck Norris in Invasion USA!woot

[California Joe]

I remember this old thread by XASA, it was a cool thread. My response was by far the funniest. "Rodney King vs. LAPD" :) I crack me up.

I'm thinking that Roarkes Drift should win simply because of the survival rate of the defenders. Think about it. Would you rather be a dead Spartan,or Texican or a live Welshman. OK, maybe it doesn't sound like that great a deal but still.......

[Dekameron]

I remember this old thread by XASA, it was a cool thread. My response was by far the funniest. "Rodney King vs. LAPD" :) I crack me up.

I'm thinking that Roarkes Drift should win simply because of the survival rate of the defenders. Think about it. Would you rather be a dead Spartan,or Texican or a live Welshman. OK, maybe it doesn't sound like that great a deal but still.......
Staying alive doesn't sound like a great deal to you ? :D

[Adz]

thermopylae, because it was hand to hand combat.

[California Joe]

Dekameron, that was my point. Glorious one sided battles are great and all but the guys who are actually there would probably rather come home alive. Roarke's Drift is actually a victory. And if I'm not mistaken there was plenty of hand to hand combat at a lot of these battles.....

[Kaplanr]

I'll throw in my two-cent's worth, and the defender's survived. Valley of Tears - October 9-10, 1973. Avigdor Kahalani's 77 Regiment of the 7th Armoured Brigade holds off the Syrians with fewer than 25 tanks and almost no ammunition at the end.

While the Israelis took out every Syrian vehicle they could get into their sights, the sheer mass of some 500 enemy tanks and 700 APCs advancing toward their lines ensured that the defenses would be overwhelmed. The number of defenders dwindled as Israeli tanks were knocked out, yet the vastly outnumbered Israelis managed to take a heavy toll on Syrian armor. In spite of their heavy losses, the Syrians pressed their attack without letup, yet the overexerted 7th managed to hold its ground, throwing stopgap blocking actions wherever the Syrians were on the verge of breaking through.


When darkness fell, the Israelis had nothing to match the Syrians' night-vision gear and had to allow the enemy armor to advance to ranges effective for night fighting. In the close fighting, the Syrians succeeded in seizing some of the high ground, but a counterattack by the small group of persistent defenders forced them back. When some Syrian tanks did overrun the Israeli lines, the 7th's gunners would rotate their turrets to destroy them and then immediately turn their attention back to other oncoming tanks. It amounted to an armored version of hand-to-hand combat.


The battle raged for two more days as the Syrians, seemingly oblivious to their heavy losses, continued their assault without letup. By the afternoon of October 9, the 7th Brigade was down to six tanks protecting what was for all intents and purposes a clear path into Israel's north.


Those last few tanks fought until they were down to their last rounds. Then, just as the 7th Brigade tanks were finally starting to pull back, they were suddenly augmented by an impromptu force of some 15 tanks. The Syrians believed the clock had run out and that the first of the fresh Israeli reservists had arrived, and the Syrian offensive ran out of steam. In truth, it was a motley force of repaired tanks crewed by injured and other crewman, which had been mustered by Lt. Col. Yossi Ben-Hanan, a veteran commander who, upon hearing about the outbreak of war, had hurried home from his honeymoon overseas. By virtue of its timing, that force proved to be the 7th Brigade's saving grace. As individual tanks began to augment the Israeli forces, the Syrians, exhausted from three days of continuous fighting and unaware of how close to victory they actually were, turned in retreat. Hundreds of destroyed tanks and APCs littering the valley below the Israeli ramparts were testimony to the horrible destruction that had taken place there, leading an Israeli colonel to dub it the "Valley of Tears."

[foxtrot023]

Dekameron, that was my point. Glorious one sided battles are great and all but the guys who are actually there would probably rather come home alive. Roarke's Drift is actually a victory. And if I'm not mistaken there was plenty of hand to hand combat at a lot of these battles.....

Yeah, but does it has the inmortality of the Termopilae? I mean CJ you got to admit that-

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
that here, obedient to their laws, we lie

is pretty much remembered even over 2500 yrs ago. Or the part when Leonidas was told that the persians would launch so many arrows tha the sun would be covered and he said ¨Good, at least we will fight in the shadow¨

And then there is the fact that this battle helped stop the Persians and that has a direct effect on the development of western culture

[gaz]

I'm thinking that Roarkes Drift should win simply because of the survival rate of the defenders. Think about it. Would you rather be a dead Spartan,or Texican or a live Welshman. OK, maybe it doesn't sound like that great a deal but still.......

The thing about the men at Rorkes Drift being almost exclusively Welsh is a myth perpetuated by the movie Zulu.

[gaijinsamurai]

Wasn't the 24th Foot (the defenders of Rorke's Drift and losers at Isandlawana), then known as "The South Warwickshire Regiment" and only later, "The South Wales Borderers"? Of course, many of the regiment's soldiers were Welsh, including a few of the Victoria Cross recipients.

[welshmann]

Wasn't the 24th Foot (the defenders of Rorke's Drift and losers at Isandlawana), then known as "The South Warwickshire Regiment" and only later, "The South Wales Borderers"? Of course, many of the regiment's soldiers were Welsh, including a few of the Victoria Cross recipients.

yes m8 the SWB were formed 2 years after Rorke's Drift in 1881.
http://www.rrw.org.uk/regiment/history.htm

quote by gaz:The thing about the men at Rorkes Drift being almost exclusively Welsh is a myth perpetuated by the movie Zulu...yep ,but they needed us to sing.

[guitarplayer17]

I would have to pick Hill 488.On June 13, 1966 and ending on the 16th 16 marines and 2 corpsmen fought off a battalion of NVA and Viet Cong. In the process the members of 1st Recon Battalion, 1st marine division, won a Congressional Medal of Honor, four Navy Crosses, thirteen silver stars, and eighteen purple hearts. The book Hill 488 was written by Ray Hildreth, who participated in the fight for Hill 488, and Charles W. Sasser.

[California Joe]

That would be pretty damned impressive now wouldn't it.

[Eddy]

That would be pretty damned impressive now wouldn't it.

Well its about time i didnt see someone type 'darn'

Thank you for that. I hate reading 'heck' 'effing' and so on.

[Canadian Sig]

Firefight at the Medak Pocket

http://www.macleans.ca/xta-asp/storyview.asp?viewtype=browse&tpl=browse_frame&vpath=/2002/09/02/World/71190.shtml

Ottawa will honour Canadians who took part in a little-known battle

MICHAEL SNIDER with SEAN M. MALONEY

In September, 1993, Canadian troops stationed in an area of Croatia known as Vojna Krajina engaged in a fierce battle with Croatian forces attacking a predominantly Serb enclave. The engagement, little known outside of military circles, was not publicized by the Canadian government, which was hesitant to draw attention to the increasing dangers the country's troops were facing abroad. But this December, Ottawa will finally honour the soldiers who took part in that firefight by presenting them with a unit commendation. Maclean's tells the story of the battle:

PTE. SCOTT LeBLANC'S machine gun jackhammered against his shoulder as he fired at the Croatian troops dug in 150 metres away. Grenades exploded around him; bullets and orange tracer-fire screamed through the smoky air. The Croatians hammered the Canadians for 15 hours straight -- thinking the 30 soldiers from the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry would buckle and run like other UN peacekeepers had often done. But the Canadians, members of one of three platoons making up the Patricia's Charlie Company, held their ground. "They're trying to flank us," LeBlanc's section leader barked, sending a jolt of adrenalin through LeBlanc's exhausted body. Standing halfway out of his trench, the 19-year-old reservist swung his gun around and opened fire on the Croatians. "We could see muzzle flashes and threw everything we had at them," recalls LeBlanc, now a 28-year-old lieutenant who has just returned from Afghanistan. "After that, everything got real quiet."

The fierce battle took place in September, 1993, about a year and a half after Canadian peacekeepers had first arrived in the former Yugoslavia. Vicious fighting and appalling acts of ethnic cleansing made their task of disarming and separating the various combatants nearly impossible. Especially volatile was one mountainous region of Croatia called Vojna Krajina, or Military Frontier, home to an isolated pocket of some 500,000 Serbs. Fiercely nationalistic, the Krajina Serbs began to drive out Croats. But on Sept. 9, Croatian Commander Rahim Ademi launched an attack to capture an area of Serb-controlled territory in Krajina called the Medak Pocket. The UN, fearing that 400 Serbs living in four unprotected villages in the area were at risk of being slaughtered by Croatian troops, ordered the Patricia's into the area -- and into the biggest firefight Canadian forces had been involved in since Korea.

Five months into a six-month tour of duty, the Canadians were led by Lt.-Col. James Calvin, 41. The 875-man battle group was a patchwork of regular and reserve soldiers. In fact, 70 per cent of the front line soldiers were reservists -- a makeup that, Calvin says, could prove dangerous in a war zone. "Reservists are just as long on valour and courage," the now-retired Calvin told Maclean's from his home on Wolfe Island, Ont., near Kingston. "But you can't expect one to do the same things you expect from a regular soldier."

Still, after four months in the region, Calvin considered his force seasoned, especially with his hand-picked group of platoon leaders, including reservist Lt. Tyrone Green. The morning of Sept. 9 started nicely enough for the Vancouver native in charge of 9 Platoon, Charlie Company, with sunshine poking through the cracks in the boarded windows of the platoon's quarters, a two-storey concrete building on the outskirts of the Serb-held town of Medak.

But as Green dragged a razor across his chin, his morning shave was interrupted by incoming artillery shells. With soap still clinging to his face, Green, who is now a captain in charge of a Canadian Forces recruiting office in Vancouver, grabbed his helmet and raced to his M-113 armoured personnel carrier. At one point he was knocked down when a shell landed in a nearby ditch. He wasn't hurt, but four Canadians were injured in the shelling. "We counted 500 or more shells by the end of the first day," says Green. "About a dozen fell in our compound and one landed about 10 metres from the front door."

Not knowing where the shells were coming from, Green sent Sgt. Rudy Bajema to establish an observation post. For the next five days, Bajema watched as the Medak Pocket was attacked by more than 2,500 Croat troops, backed by tanks, rocket launchers and artillery. The Serbs finally slowed the Croatian advance on Sept. 12, but it was not until they launched rockets into a suburb of Zagreb, Croatia's capital, that the Croats relented and accepted a UN ceasefire.

Calvin, who didn't really expect the Croatians to live up to the agreement, ordered his troops to occupy the Croat positions. "We started taking fire almost immediately from the Croats," recalls LeBlanc. The battle raged for the next 15 hours. It was so intense that at night the light from burning buildings reflected off the soldiers' blue UN helmets, prompting them to wrap them in khaki-coloured T-shirts. Finally realizing the Canadians would not back down, the Croats sent word to Calvin that they wanted to talk. They had good reason to call a truce: the Canadians had killed 27 Croats while not taking a single casualty.

Joined by Col. Michel Maisonneuve, a Canadian officer from the UN headquarters in Zagreb, Calvin met with Ademi at his headquarters in a town near the fighting. Ademi sat on one side of the table, blustering and yelling at the Canadians. "He looked like he was enjoying the role he was playing," says Calvin. "Emotions were very high and I was irate my men were getting shot at." But after an hour and a half, Ademi finally relented and promised to pull his troops out at noon the next day.

The Croatian commander, however, was determined to terrorize the Serb civilians living in the area before he left. By 10 a.m. the next morning, a thick umbrella of smoke covered all four towns in the Medak Pocket as the Croats tried to kill or destroy everything in their wake. The Canadians witnessed scenes that still haunt many of them. "They could see what was happening from their foxholes," says Calvin. "My soldiers knew their role was to protect the weak and the innocent and they were absolutely incensed." But fearing the ceasefire agreement with Ademi would collapse if they advanced, the Canadians could do nothing but hold their ground.

Finally, when the noon deadline passed, the Canadians raced ahead, but immediately encountered a company of Croat troops behind a barricade -- and supported by missiles launchers and an ominous Soviet-era T-72 tank. Calvin approached the senior Croat brigadier; their conversation quickly became heated. The large, bearded Croat ordered his men to cock their weapons and point them at the Canadians. "We knew they were stalling so they could clean up evidence of their ethnic cleansing," Calvin recalls.

Calvin did not order his troops to fight, and instead tried another gambit. With the Medak attack almost a week old, the international media had converged on the area. As negotiations with his bearded counterpart deteriorated, Calvin held a news conference in front of the barricade and bluntly described the atrocities he believed were being committed by the Croatians. Realizing his country's reputation was in jeopardy, the Croat commander suddenly stepped aside. "The transformation was instantaneous," says Calvin. "He made a big show of removing the barriers."

The Patricia's then pushed on. Every building in their path had been demolished and many were still smouldering. Corpses lay by the side of the road, some badly mutilated and others burned beyond recognition. "We knew it was going to be bad," says Green, "but the things we found there were worse than anything we expected."

The Canadians documented everything they saw. Calvin's subsequent report helped convince the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia to issue an indictment in 2001 against Ademi, charging him with crimes against humanity. Made public one year ago, the report is a brutal list of murder and torture. Among the victims: Sara Krickovic, female, 71, throat cut; Pera Krajnovic, female, 86, burned to death; Andja Jovic, female, 74, beaten and shot. In all, the Patricia's found 16 mutilated corpses -- some with their eyes cut out.

The soldiers rotated home four weeks later, but there was no hero's welcome. At the time, Canadians were focused on the disturbing revelations that a teenager named Shidane Arone had been tortured and killed by Canadian peacekeepers in Somalia. Kim Campbell's Conservative government was also facing a federal election and didn't want the increasing dangers Canadian troops were facing in the Balkans raised as an issue. "When we got back to Canada a couple of weeks later, the first thing I did was call home," says LeBlanc. "My folks hadn't heard anything about the battle."

The force did receive high honours from the United Nations in 1994, when its members were given the United Nations Force Commanders' Commendation -- the first of its kind and only one of three ever awarded. And, this December, the Canadian government finally plans to honour the troops by presenting them with a unit commendation. But the honours only go so far. With vivid memories of the battle, many of the soldiers still suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome.

As for Ademi, his case rests in legal limbo. After the indictment, he voluntarily turned himself over to the war crimes tribunal, proclaiming he had a clear conscience because "I did not order any atrocities." Last February, the UN granted him a provisional release on condition he return to The Hague when the trial proceeds, likely next year. Calvin may be called to testify. "Ademi should be called to account," he says. "No soldier should be able to get away with that."





But you know I'm biased. I would probably vote for Rourke's Drift. :)

[Canadian Sig]

stupid double post.......mods please delete.

[Jaegerfeld]

Oxein angellein lakedaimonios hoti tede keimeta tois keinon remasi peitomenoi

[achilles]

In May 1821, Omer Vrioni, the commander of the Turkish army, advanced with 8,000 men, after crushing the resistance of the Greeks at the river of Alamana (Spercheios) and putting Athanasios Diakos to death, heading south into Peloponnesus to crush the Greek uprising. Odysseas Androutsos with a band of 100 or so men took up a defensive position at an inn near Gravia, supported by Panourgias and Diovouniotis and their men. Vrioni attacked the inn but was repulsed with heavy casualties (over 400 dead). Finally, he was forced to ask for reinforcements and artillery but the Greeks managed to slip out before the reinforcements arrived. Androutsos lost two men in the battle and earned the title of commander in chief of the Greek forces in Rumeli (Central Greece).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odysseas_Androutsos

Less than 200 Greeks against 8000 Ottoman Turks...not bad at all.

[Taekwondo]

Battle of Joutselkä on the Karelian Isthmus in 1555. 500 Finns beat a Russian army of 6000 by flanking them with skiing troops. Traditionally held as an example of a Finnish soldier's fighting ability (or Finnish Karelian's).

Countless small unit actions happened especially during the Winter War, many times only dozens of lightly armed Finnish troops holding off regiments and battallions supported by tanks and heavy artillery.

[Field_Gunner]

Action at Nery, 1st September 1914. During the fighting retreat from Mons, battery L of the Royal horse artillery bivouacked by a small town of Nery. Their temporary halt was interrupted during the early morning cavalry patrol warning of the imminent arrival of a large German force of cavalry, infantry and artillery. almost immediately German shells began bursting amongst the battery, accompanied by a rifle and machine gun fire. 3 guns were knocked out before they could be brought into action and two more were disabled soon afterwards, while the British gunners sustained heavy casualties. the remaining no. 6 gun with a scratch crew managed to maintain a steady fire for some two hours inflicting heavy casualties on the Germans until reinforcements arrived, driving off the surviving German unties. Three Victoria crosses (one posthumously) and two French medaille militaire were awarded and two NCO's were commissioned after the action.

also the battle of Hong Kong

[Atlantic Friend]

I don't think there's such as a thing as the "greatest battle", as all battles present some unique characteristics that made them particularly heroic, epic or crucial.

So I'd propose the Battle of Bir Hakeim, May/June 1942, which pitted Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps, on the offensive, against General Pierre Koenig's 1st Free French Brigade.

Despite being outnumbered (enemy forces were estimated at 4 divisions), Koenig refused to surrender and held his position for 16 days, thanks to British supplies. His stubborn resistance enabled the British 8th Army to escape the Afrika Korps' offensive, and to regroup at El Alamein.


Battle of Bir Hakeim
Part of World War II, North African Campaign
Date: May 26, 1942 - June 11, 1942
Location: Bir Hakeim, Libya
Result: Axis victory

Combatants
Free French Forces vs. Afrika Korps
Free French Commander : General Marie Pierre Koenig
Afrika Korps Commander : Afrika Korps : Erwin Rommel
Strength 3703 Free French soldiers vs. an unknown number of AK troops
Free French casualties : 140 Dead, 229 Wounded, 814 Captured
Afrika Korps casualties : 3,300 Dead and Wounded, 277 Captured

Here's a link to a Wikipedia article about the battle (from which I took the previous stats and figures) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Hakeim

[Atlantic Friend]

The defense of Pusan could be another example.

[Hydro]

I can't remember if it's been posted as this thread is getting rather long, but Keith Mills and the 12 Marines on South Georgia in 1982...Upon instructions only to observe the enemy movements - "Sod that, I'm gonna make their eyes water!"

[Lokos]

Small unit, eh?

Okay. Let's try this:

Pavlov's House


The house was a four-story building in the city centre of Stalingrad, built parallel to the embankment of the river Volga and overseeing a large square, the "9th January Square". The house was attacked by the German invaders in September 1942. A platoon of the 13th Guards Division was ordered to seize and defend it. The platoon was commanded by Yakov Pavlov, a junior commander replacing his wounded superior. They were successful, although only four men survived the combat. Together they went on defending the building on their own. After several days, reinforcements finally arrived, equipping the defenders with machine-guns, anti-tank rifles and mortars. The men, now a garrison of twenty-five, surrounded the building with barbed wire and minefields, and established anti-tank and machine-gun posts at the windows. For better internal communications and supplies they breached the walls in the basement and upper floors, and dug a communications trench to Soviet positions outside. Supplies were brought in via the trench or by boats crossing the river, defying German air raids and shelling.

Nevertheless food and especially water was in short supply. Lacking beds, the soldiers tried to sleep on insulation wool torn off pipes, yet usually the Germans kept shooting at the house with deafening machine-gun fire day and night. The Germans attacked the building several times a day. Each time German infantry or tanks tried to cross the square and to close in on the house, Pavlov's men took them under heavy fire from within the basement, from the windows and from the roof top. Leaving behind a square covered with corpses and steel, the Germans had to retreat again.

Eventually the defenders, as well as the Russian civilians who kept living in the basement all that time, held out during intensive fighting from 23 September until 25 November 1942, when they were relieved by counter-attacking Soviet forces.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlov%27s_House

Regards,
Lokos

[Royal]

I can't remember if it's been posted as this thread is getting rather long, but Keith Mills and the 12 Marines on South Georgia in 1982...Upon instructions only to observe the enemy movements - "Sod that, I'm gonna make their eyes water!"

22 man infantry troop with infantry weapons shot down a helicopter and almost sank a frigate (2 hits with 84mm Charlie G and 2 with 66mm LAW as well as over 1000 SAA hits) causing it to withdraw from the battle, killed 3 enemy and seriously wounded 6 more, all for 1 WIA.

Not bad going...

[Code 51 50]

Small unit, eh?

Okay. Let's try this:

Pavlov's House



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlov%27s_House

Regards,
Lokos

Voted for Thermopylae but Pavlovs house was quite a good example.


Pavlov's House became a symbol of the stubborn resistance of the Soviet Union in the Battle of Stalingrad, and in the Great Patriotic War in general. It stands out prominently because the German armies had previously conquered cities and entire countries within weeks; yet they were unable to capture a single half-ruined house, defended most of the time by just over a dozen soldiers, in spite of trying for two months. It is reported that the building at the "9th January Square" was marked as a fortress in German maps.

[Canuck Farrier]

December 1941 to march 1942How about the Defense of Cholm by battle group scherer on the Russian front.They fewer than 4000 menin all had withstood 100 separate major soviet assaults launche by a total of six infantry divisions,six independant infantry brigades and two tank brigades.The garrison had brought down 2 enemy aircraft and had destroyed 42 tanks.They themselves had carried out 10 major infantry attacks and 43 counter attacks.The Cholm garrison had lost 1,550 kIA and 2,200 wounded and on the 5 of may number of men still fit for action numbered 1200.Scherer and his battle group had held a vital land bridge The reward for their effort was a metal arm badge bearing the name of the place where they had endured for 105 days and nights.CHOLM
This is a brief summary very good stories of first hand accounts.I realize 4000 isnt a small unit but it is compared to the Soviet units they faced.

[kabex]

Battle of Camerone,Mexico 1863.60 foreign legionnaires fought against 1800 Mexicans.Few survive.30 years later Mexican army build a monument to honor legionnaires. I won't bother reading all the thread, I was going to say this but noticed someone already mentioned it.

It's quite possibly the greatest defense ever conducted by a small force against a much larger enemy.

Also, I got a good laugh out of the "Alamo" option. The Alamo was nothing extraordinary, contrary to what Americans believe.

The Battle of Camarón was simply incredible, I recommend everyone reads about it.

After the Legionnaries had run out of ammunition, some 9 of them did a bayo charge. They fought to the death.

I think 3 survived and surrendered, but the French Foreign Legion does not permit surrendering your weapons, the Mexican officer noticed the unbreakable courage of these men, he let them go away with their rifles in their hands.

He said, "these are not men, they are beasts'. A monument was erected at the site, and Mexican soldiers passing by salute it.

"On the 30th of April, at 1 a.m., the 3rd company was on its way, with its 3 officers and 62 men. At 7 a.m., after a 15 mile march, it stopped at Palo Verde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_Verde) in order to get some rest. Soon after a Mexican force of 1,600 soldiers (600 cavalry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry) & 1,000 infantry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry)) was spotted."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n

Also, to the people who talked about Thermopylae, there were NOT only 300 Spartans. There were thousands of other auxiliary troops(around 7000) some of them Athenian hoplites(elite too). They retreated though and the 300 Spartans stood up the suicidal defense.

Also, the battle of Thermopylae is, to me, the single most important battle in all of HISTORY. This battle saved Western civilization.

If it weren't for Leonidas or the 300 Spartans, we would not be here. I don't even think there would be technology, the world would be just like the middle east.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

The grain elevator at Stalingrad.
Now that was hard core.

[mas36]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet, so I'll cast my vote for the defense of Dunkirk, 1940. Specifically, the French rear-guard actions in Dunkirk and in the town of Lille. Thanks to them, the greater part of the BEF managed to escape capture and return to England, along with a good number of French troops as well.

[Lokos]

mas36:

I specialise (as far as I am able to) on the Eastern Front. So this information re: the French rearguard was something I have not been privy to. Thank you!

Where can I learn more?

Lokos

[Erik2a4]

My vote? Molon Labe ;)

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet, so I'll cast my vote for the defense of Dunkirk, 1940. Specifically, the French rear-guard actions in Dunkirk and in the town of Lille. Thanks to them, the greater part of the BEF managed to escape capture and return to England, along with a good number of French troops as well.
It wasn't just French troops in the rearguard at Dunkirk, Boulogne and Calais you know. Lots of Brits got left behind too.

And the thread title was about small units in defence.

[TR1]

I would say that Pavlov's house is a strong contendor.
It is still preserved in stalingra...sorry volgograd today.

edit:
oh, wait, Lokos already brought it up.:)

[AFJROTC55]

173rd Airborne Brigade, Operation Hump, Warzone D, Vietnam, November 8 1965, ambushed and attacked by 1200+ VC.

1*

[IronFinn]

Battle of "killer hill" where 38 finns defending the hill fought 4000 russians. 4 finns survived, 400 russians died. This happened in Winter War and in the kollaa river section.

[Gothard]

Battle of Camarón
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Battle of Camarón
Part of the French intervention in Mexico
Battle of Camarón
Date April 30, 1863
Location Hacienda Camarón, near Palo Verde, Mexico
Result Mexican Pyrrhic victory

Combatants
Mexico France
Commanders
Colonel Milan Jean Danjou †
Strength
600 cavalry, 1000 infantry 65
Casualties
200 - 300
wounded 300 (estimated)
59 killed, 3 captured, 3 wounded who escaped after feigning death
The Battle of Camarón occurred on 30 April 1863, between the French Foreign Legion and the Mexican army. In this battle the French Foreign Legion made its legend. A small infantry patrol led by Capitaine Danjou, Sous-Lieutenant Maudet and Sous-Lieutenant Vilain, numbering 62 soldiers and 3 officers was attacked and besieged by more than two thousand[1] Mexican infantry and cavalry units organized into 3 battalions, and was forced to make a defensive stand at the nearby Hacienda Camarón.
Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 The Battle
3 Aftermath
4 External links


[edit] Background
As part of the French intervention in Mexico, a French army commanded by Count of Lorencez, was besieging the Mexican city of Puebla, in Puebla state. Fearing a logistical shortage, the French sent a convoy with 3 million francs, matériel, and munitions for the siege. The French Foreign Legion detachment was charged with protecting the convoy, and Captain Danjou assigned the 3rd company of the Foreign Regiment. As the company had no officers, Captain Danjou assumed command.

[edit] The Battle
On the 30th of April, at 01.00 hrs, the 3rd company — 62 soldiers and 3 officers — was en route. At 0700 hrs, after a 15-mile march, they stopped at Palo Verde to rest. Soon after, a Mexican Army force of 1,600 soldiers (600 cavalry & 1,000 infantry) was sighted. Captain Danjou ordered the company take up a square formation, and, though retreating, he rebuffed several cavalry charges, inflicting the first heavy losses on the Mexican enemy.
Seeking a more defensible position, Danjou made a stand at the nearby Hacienda Camarón, an inn protected by a 3-metre-high-wall. His plan was to occupy Mexican forces to prevent attacks against the nearby convoy. While his legionnaires prepared to defend the inn, the Mexican commander, Colonel Milan, demanded that Danjou and soldiers surrender, noting the Mexican Army's numeric superiority. Danjou replied: "We have munitions. We will not surrender." He then swore to fight to the death, and had his men second the oath.
At 12.00 hrs, Captain Danjou was shot in the chest and died; his soldiers continued fighting despite overwhelming odds under the command of an inspired Lt. Vilian, who held for four hours before falling during an assault. With ammunition exhausted, the last of Danjou's soldiers, numbering only five under the command of Lt. Maudet, desperately mounted a bayonet charge. Two men died outright, while the rest continued the assault. The tiny group was surrounded and literally beaten to the earth. Colonel Milan, commander of the Mexicans, managed to prevent his men from ripping the surviving legionaires to pieces. When the last two survivors were asked to surrender, they insisted that Mexican soldiers allow them safe passage home, to keep their flag, and to escort the body of Captain Danjou. To that, the Mexican commander commented, "What can I do with such men? No, these are not men, they are devils," and, out of respect, agreed to these terms.

[edit] Aftermath
Thanks to the heroic stand of the Foreign Legion, the French supply convoy made it safely to Puebla. The Mexicans failed to relieve the siege and the city fell on May 17.
Today "Camerone Day" is an important day of celebration for the Legionnaires, when the wooden prosthetic hand of Capitaine Danjou is brought out on display.
After hearing of the battle, French emperor Napoleon III had the name Camerone embroidered onto the flag of the Foreign Legion.
In 1892, a monument commemorating the battle was erected on the battlefield with the following inscription :"They were here less than sixty opposed to a whole army. Its mass crushed them. Life rather than bravery gave up these French soldiers at Camerone on April, 30 1863. In memory of them, the fatherland has erected this monument". To this day Mexican soldiers who pass always stop and salute the monument.
http://www.lalegion.de/camerone_index.html
http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Wilson_022805-P1,00.html
http://www.lalegionetrangere.fr/camerone.php
http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/E/escape_to_the_legion/legion.html
In Mexico, during the Battle of Camarón on 30 April 1863, the Legion’s reputation for being a dispensable unit of undesirables was suddenly elevated to its now highly respected status as a fighting force to be reckoned with. A small infantry patrol led by Capitane Danjou was attacked and besieged by three battalions of the Mexican infantry and cavalry. Danjou’s men were forced to make a defence in the Hacienda Camarón near Puebla. It was 62 legionnaires and three officers against more than 2000 Mexican soldiers.
Legend has it that despite being hopelessly outnumbered, the legionnaires kept the Mexicans at bay for more than a day, refusing to surrender. When the last of the men had run out of ammunition, they fixed bayonets and charged their enemy. When asked to surrender again, the legionnaires demanded to be allowed safe passage home and to take with them the French flag and the body of their fallen capitane. Out of respect for their courage, the Mexican commander agreed to their terms, commenting 'These are not men, they are devils.'
The battle, the name of which now adorns the Legion’s flag, remains symbolic of their vow never to give up arms. It was, according to Glenn Ferguson, the turning point for the Legion. Camarón Day, celebrated every year on 30 April, is a special day for the Legion, when the wooden prosthetic hand of Danjou is taken down from its place of honour and displayed, as the men remember their fallen heroes.

Battle of Camarón
Date April 30, 1863
Location Hacienda Camarón, near Palo Verde, Mexico
Result Mexican Pyrrhic victory

Combatants
Mexico France
Commanders
Colonel Milan Jean Danjou †
Strength
600 cavalry, 1000 infantry 65
Casualties
200 - 300
wounded 300 (estimated)
59 killed, 3 captured, 3 wounded who escaped after feigning death
The Battle of Camarón occurred on 30 April 1863, between the French Foreign Legion and the Mexican army. In this battle the French Foreign Legion made its legend. A small infantry patrol led by Capitaine Danjou, Sous-Lieutenant Maudet and Sous-Lieutenant Vilain, numbering 62 soldiers and 3 officers was attacked and besieged by more than two thousand[1] Mexican infantry and cavalry units organized into 3 battalions, and was forced to make a defensive stand at the nearby Hacienda Camarón.
Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 The Battle
3 Aftermath
4 External links


[edit] Background
As part of the French intervention in Mexico, a French army commanded by Count of Lorencez, was besieging the Mexican city of Puebla, in Puebla state. Fearing a logistical shortage, the French sent a convoy with 3 million francs, matériel, and munitions for the siege. The French Foreign Legion detachment was charged with protecting the convoy, and Captain Danjou assigned the 3rd company of the Foreign Regiment. As the company had no officers, Captain Danjou assumed command.

[edit] The Battle
On the 30th of April, at 01.00 hrs, the 3rd company — 62 soldiers and 3 officers — was en route. At 0700 hrs, after a 15-mile march, they stopped at Palo Verde to rest. Soon after, a Mexican Army force of 1,600 soldiers (600 cavalry & 1,000 infantry) was sighted. Captain Danjou ordered the company take up a square formation, and, though retreating, he rebuffed several cavalry charges, inflicting the first heavy losses on the Mexican enemy.
Seeking a more defensible position, Danjou made a stand at the nearby Hacienda Camarón, an inn protected by a 3-metre-high-wall. His plan was to occupy Mexican forces to prevent attacks against the nearby convoy. While his legionnaires prepared to defend the inn, the Mexican commander, Colonel Milan, demanded that Danjou and soldiers surrender, noting the Mexican Army's numeric superiority. Danjou replied: "We have munitions. We will not surrender." He then swore to fight to the death, and had his men second the oath.
At 12.00 hrs, Captain Danjou was shot in the chest and died; his soldiers continued fighting despite overwhelming odds under the command of an inspired Lt. Vilian, who held for four hours before falling during an assault. With ammunition exhausted, the last of Danjou's soldiers, numbering only five under the command of Lt. Maudet, desperately mounted a bayonet charge. Two men died outright, while the rest continued the assault. The tiny group was surrounded and literally beaten to the earth. Colonel Milan, commander of the Mexicans, managed to prevent his men from ripping the surviving legionaires to pieces. When the last two survivors were asked to surrender, they insisted that Mexican soldiers allow them safe passage home, to keep their flag, and to escort the body of Captain Danjou. To that, the Mexican commander commented, "What can I do with such men? No, these are not men, they are devils," and, out of respect, agreed to these terms.

[edit] Aftermath
Thanks to the heroic stand of the Foreign Legion, the French supply convoy made it safely to Puebla. The Mexicans failed to relieve the siege and the city fell on May 17.
Today "Camerone Day" is an important day of celebration for the Legionnaires, when the wooden prosthetic hand of Capitaine Danjou is brought out on display.
After hearing of the battle, French emperor Napoleon III had the name Camerone embroidered onto the flag of the Foreign Legion.
In 1892, a monument commemorating the battle was erected on the battlefield with the following inscription :"They were here less than sixty opposed to a whole army. Its mass crushed them. Life rather than bravery gave up these French soldiers at Camerone on April, 30 1863. In memory of them, the fatherland has erected this monument". To this day Mexican soldiers who pass always stop and salute the monument.

[Gothard]

Sorry for the post - i had to wait to get in the forums.. Camarons always been on my mind as one of the hardest fought small unit battles of all time. Not sure what the limits are for small unit but I think the 1522 siege of Rhodes is the ultimate David and Goliath battle. Pitting 800 Knights Hospitalers and 3000 auxiliaries against a force of approx 160,000 before firearms were prevalent. this was hand to hand combat.. real nasty fight. the defenders managed to kill off approximately 60,000 of the attackers before the walls were breached and the defense became untenable.

THe fight lasted half a year and I don't think theres any battle in history that can be compared to their legendary stand - they managed to surrender with full honours and survived the fight to top it all off.

Also There was a battle - Megiddo I think ? A small group of Jews surrounded on a mountaintop - they all committed suiced rather than allow capture. Im not sure of the details but the battle was very much an epic.

[Musashi]

I have something really outstanding. It's about how to defeat almost 12 times bigger enemy forces.



Battle of Fuengirola
Part of the Peninsular War
Date October 15 - October 18, 1810
Location Fuengirola, near Málaga, Spain
Result Franco-Polish victory

Combatants
Britain Duchy of Warsaw
Spain France
Commanders
Lord Blayney Franciszek Młokosiewicz
Strength
3,501 British 350 Polish
1,000 Spanish 30 French
Losses
40 killed 20 killed
70 wounded 100 wounded
177 prisoners of war
5 guns
300 rifles
60000 ammo pieces (partially destroyed)
1 sunk gunboat

Battle of Fuengirola
In the Battle of Fuengirola (October 15, 1810) a small Polish garrison of a mediæval Moorish fortress in Fuengirola defeated a joint Spanish-British expeditionary corps under Lord Blayney.

Before the Battle

The town of Fuengirola has been an important trade town since the Middle Ages. To defend it against invasion from the sea, the Moors built a stone castle on a hill between the Mediterranean and the Fuengirola River. During the Peninsular War the area of Costa del Sol was considered of secondary importance. It was seized by the French forces with little opposition and until 1810 the partisan activity in the region was close to none. That is why after suffering losses in the fights in the interior, some Polish units of the Duchy of Warsaw were sent there as a garrison and to rest in October 1810.

The Castillo de Sohail was manned by more than 100 Polish soldiers from the 4th Infantry Regiment. The unit was commanded by Captain Franciszek Młokosiewicz. Similar small garrisons were placed in the nearby towns of Mijas (60 infantrymen under lieutenant Eustachy Chełmicki) and Alhaurin (200 infantrymen and 40 dragoons under major I. Bronisz). All these forces formed part of the French Corps of General Horace Sebastiani stationed in Málaga. The corps numbered some 10,000 men. It was located in Southern Andalusia to prevent the Spanish partisans from receiving arms from Gibraltar.

In the autumn of 1810 the British Major General Lord Blayney decided to lead an expeditionary corps from Gibraltar towards the port of Málaga and seize it by surprise. The beaches near the small fortress of Fuengirola seemed a perfect landing place for his forces. The Spanish partisans informed the British about the weakness of the defenders and lack of reserves. In October 1810 Blayney gathered a field force of 2/89th Regiment of Foot, a battalion of international deserters from the French army, an artillery unit, naval gun crews and a Spanish Toledo Regiment. Thus the initial British-Spanish expedition numbered c. 1700 men, excluding naval staffs and crews. They boarded a small fleet consisting of two frigates (HMS Topaze and HMS Sparrowhawk), five gunboats, several brigs and transport sloops.

Battle

On October 14, 1810, the British armada reached the Cala Moral Bay, about 2 miles southwest from Fuengirola. The British disembarked, and were joined on the beach by a rather small number of Spanish partisans. Blayney led his force northeast along the shore while his fleet sailed parallel toward Fuengirola. At 2:00 p.m. they all arrived in front of the castle and the British general sent an emissary to convince the Polish commander to surrender. Młokosiewicz refused and the British ships opened fire.

Despite numerical inferiority, the Poles held out. Sergeant Zakrzewski even managed to sink one of the British gunboats. The remaining gunboats withdrew out of the range of the two lightweight Polish guns. Under the cover of gunfire from his two frigates, Blayney attempted a frontal attack on the castle's walls. However, after Major Grant, the commander of 2/89th Regiment of Foot had been killed, Lord Blayney ordered a retreat. Overnight he landed his guns and the British engineers built two artillery emplacements near the castle, from which they planned to destroy the walls. In the meantime, the Polish garrison of Mijas under Lieut. Chełmicki, alarmed by the artillery bombardment, sneaked through the British lines and joined up with the defenders. Bronisz's garrison of Alhaurin was also alarmed and in the early morning of October 15 it marched to Mijas, where it clashed with a 450-strong Spanish-German unit sent there by Blayney and dispersed it in a bayonet charge.

On the morning of October 15 the artillery bombardment became heavy and the British cannons destroyed one of the castle towers. Around 2:00 p.m., HMS Rodney and a similar Spanish warship arrived at Fuengirola and brought additional 932 men of the 1/82nd Regiment of Foot. To counter the threat, Captain Młokosiewicz decided to execute a surprise attack on the enemy artillery positions. Leaving the castle guarded mostly by the wounded, he led the remaining 130 soldiers in a sally. The besiegers were taken by surprise and, despite huge numerical superiority (approximately 10:1), the Spanish regiment protecting the hill artillery redoubt retreated in disorder. The guns were turned away from the castle and the Polish infantrymen started shelling the British positions. Although the artillery fire mostly missed its targets (there were no trained artillery officers in the Polish unit), it made the regrouping of British troops much more difficult.

After about half an hour Lord Blayney managed to reorganise his troops on the beach and ordered the assault of the artillery emplacement occupied by Polish forces. The outnumbered defenders blew up the gunpowder supplies and withdrew towards the castle. However, before the British and Spanish forces could push any further, they were attacked on their left flank by the Polish garrison of Alhaurin that had just arrived on the battlefield. Approximately 200 rested and well-equipped Poles under I. Bronisz distracted the British long enough to let the withdrawing Captain Młokosiewicz regroup his force and strike the right flank of the British line. This near-simultaneous attack of Polish units, supported by approximately 30 French cavalrymen from the 21st Dragoon Regiment, surprised the enemy infantry, which soon began to waver. After Lord Blayney was taken prisoner by the Poles, his infantry sounded retreat and started a chaotic re-embarcation under the fire of their own, captured once more, guns.

Aftermath

The heroic defence of the castle in Fuengirola was one of few moments (Maida, Albuera) in history, in which Polish soldiers fought against the forces of Great Britain. It was also one of a few decisive British defeats in the Peninsular War. Although in his memoirs Lord Blayney tried to downplay the importance of the battle of Fuengirola, he himself remained in French captivity until 1814. His surrendered sabre is currently on exhibition in the Czartoryski Museum in Kraków (Cracow).

Some British military historians have blamed the British debacle on the timely arrival of General Sébastiani's superior relief force from Málaga. However, Sébastiani's own report to Marshal Soult attests that his column has reached Fuengirola only on the morning of October 16, some time after the end of the fight. That debate nevertheless continues and in print - see, for example, Juan Antonio Martín Ruiz's "Breve historia de Fuengirola", Editorial Sarriá, 2000, pp. 62-63.).

General Major Lord Blayney's sabre at the Czartoryskis' Family Museum in Krakow, Poland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fuengirola

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

The grain elevator at Stalingrad.
Now that was hard core.


Was just about to say that one. 40 russians faced three german divisions and defended the elevator for several weeks!

[Labud]

The battle of Great Shiljegovac(Велики Шиљеговац) in First Serbo-Turkish war (1876-1877). A few dozens of Serbian soldiers (all the inhabitants of this village) fought against whole Turkish regiment in one part of this battle.

[Thor]

Was just about to say that one. 40 russians faced three german divisions and defended the elevator for several weeks!
It wasn't like three divisions were charging a grain elevator... It was one infantry battalion with some tanks attached to it.

[Canuck Farrier]

Did the Germans eventually take the Grain Elevator.?

I always though the defence of The Cholm garrison by Battle Group Scherer was impressive 105 days and nights.December 41 to March 42.A small unit compared to the numbers they faced.under 4000Germans VS 6 soviet Inf.Divisions 6 independant Inf.Brigades and 2 tank brigades.They withstood 100 separate major soviet assaults they brought down 2 enemy aircraft and destroyed 42 enemy tanks.

[Guerrier_Franc]

Battle of Otumba in 1521

400 Spanish soldiers against 40 000 Aztecs......
Desicive Spanish victory .


http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batalla_de_Otumba

[kawaiku]

Taffy 3 in the Battle of Samar:
http://www.bosamar.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taffy_3

Incredibly fierce yet very lucky win for the Americans. The odds against these guys was Amazing! This battle always impresses me.

[Guerrier_Franc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople

Fall of constantinople 1453.

7000 Byzantine soldiers against 100 000 Turkish.

[Doublethinker]

I'd say Dietl in Narvik.

[Mastermind]

I like the Siege of Malta as a successful defense by a small group...6,000 Maltese and allies against 48,000 Ottoman Turk forces. MM

[Sheelon666]

Voted Thermopylae.

Ultimately the example set by the 300 Spartans, was what was remembered the following year at Plataea, wherein the full might of the Spartan army was brought to bear, IIRC about 8000 Hoplites with about 30k Helot troops, along with a united Greek force.

The 300 had given such an impressive performance and so intimidated the Persians that they could not stand. That was the end of the Persian expeditions into the West.

Imagine if the 300 had retreated, maintained their dignity and gone on to fight the following year... Others have said it more eloquently than me on this site, but if Thermopylae had not turned out the way it did, the world today would be vastly different than one we live in.

Final word: Better dead than Welsh. :-)

[XASA]

This thread is like the Energizer Bunny-- it keeps going and going. Thanks for all the input guys. It proves what brave men from different countries and different periods can accomplish if they are motivated.

Since Stalingrad was such a huge battle, there were many instances of small units both German and Russian, fighting to the last bullet. One successful stand was Pavlov's House, where a platoon of Russians from the 13th Guards Division commanded by Yakov Pavlov held off German counterattacks from September 23 to November 25, 1942. By the time they were relieved, there were only four survivors.

[ase290406]

During the 1969 war of attrition along the Suez canal, a stouch debate about a "Mobile" vs "Static" defences was going on between the Israeli champions (In hebrew a general is "Aluf" - champion). One of the man in favor of a mobile defence strategy was Aluf Ariel Sharon. In the end, a compromise of static bunkers and 300 tanks behind them was implemented.

On the 6/10/1973 at 14:00 a heavy Egyptian shelling, followed by ground troops crossing the canal have taken the Israeli forces by suprise. The outposts fought bravely, killing hundreds of Egyptian soldiers and destroying Egyptian armour. At last one by one the outposts surrendered to the sheer mass of the Egyptian assault. Outpost "Budapest" was the only one that never fell. They were sorounded from the very start, having only light inf and 2 tanks from the 9th battalion. Before the war Captain Moty Ashkenzy the commander, have repeatedly complained about the downed state of the outpost, but in vain. Ashkenazy and his men held out for 6 days losing 30 men and 3 prisoners vs hundreds of Egyptians, until reinforcments arrived.


After the war Ashkenazy was at the forefront of critisizm against the Israeli goverment saying among other things, that he recevied a notion about the war only 20 minutes before the battle began.


P.S - I'm an Israeli, so I guess you could say that I'm biased. Sources: Own kwnoledge and wikipedia. Here is a link to recordings from the "Purkan" position in the war:
http://www.isracast.com/yk/stage.swf

[ZaakM433]

Anyone want to give me the answer after redefining small unit as 10 men or less?

[Royal]

Anyone want to give me the answer after redefining small unit as 10 men or less?

Mirbat....

[CaptainFreedom]

Battle of Carillon

[/URL]
Date July 7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Montcalm_at_the_Battle_of_Carillon.jpg) - July 8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_8), 1758 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1758)
Location Ticonderoga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticonderoga%2C_New_York), present-day New York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York)
Result Decisive French victory
Combatants France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) Britain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Great_Britain)
France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France):
Commanders: Louis-Joseph de Montcalm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Joseph_de_Montcalm)
Strength: 3,500 regulars, militia, and natives
Casualties: 106 dead 256 wounded
Britain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Great_Britain):
Commanders: George Howe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Howe%2C_3rd_Viscount_Howe) † James Abercrombie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Abercrombie_%28general%29)
Strength: 6,000 regulars 10,000 militia
Casualties: 500 dead 1,450 wounded

Background

The fort is situated on a point of land between Lake Champlain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Champlain) and Lake George (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_George_%28New_York%29), a natural point of conflict between French forces moving south from Quebec (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec) and the Saint Lawrence River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lawrence_River) Valley across the Lake toward the Hudson River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_River) valley, accessible near the southern reaches of the Lake. The fort is surrounded on three sides with water, and on one half of the fourth side by a morass. The remaining part was strongly fortified with high entrenchments, supported and flanked by three batteries, and the whole front of that part was blocked up with felled trees, with their branches turned outwards, and their points first sharpened, and then hardened by fire; forming altogether a most formidable defence. The fort controlled the southern reaches of Lake Champlain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Champlain) and access to the Hudson River Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_River_Valley).

Preparations, July 6

The British army numbered fully 16,000 men, making it the largest single force ever deployed on the North American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America) continent. Its complement of regular troops, numbering 6,000, included the Highland Regiment, Lord John Murray's Highlanders of the 42nd Highland Regiment (1st Battalion) the 27th, 44th, 46th, and 55th regiments, and the 1st & 4th battalions of the 60th, arrived at the north end of Lake George on July 6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_6) after two days on the water moving north from the remains of Fort William Henry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_William_Henry) (in modern Lake George Village, NY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_George_%28village%29%2C_New_York)). Abercrombie formed his men into regular marching columns. They marched to an outpost which had been easily cleared by Rogers' Rangers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers%27_Rangers) earlier in the day.

July 7

On July 7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_7) Abercrombie resumed the march to the fort. Unfortunately, the road was not wide enough to accommodate the army, and they soon were scattered over a great distance. Rogers' Rangers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers%27_Rangers) and the British Light Infantry were sent ahead as a forward guard and guide, and were able to prevent any frontal attack by pushing aside any French skirmishers but unable to properly lead the now scattered British army (later both Rogers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rogers) and Abercrombie would blame the other for this failure).
Lord Howe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Howe%2C_3rd_Viscount_Howe)'s light infantry were ordered to protect the exposed flank during the march engaged and entered into a small skirmish with a French patrol. This skirmish while tactically successful (the French were easily driven off), lead to the death of Lord Howe while chasing the retreating French.
In 1825 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1825) Major General David Stewart wrote an account of the battle:
The march was continued in the same order (July 7th), but the ground not having been previously examined, and the guides proving extremely ignorant, the columns came in contact, and were thrown in confusion. A detachment of the enemy, which got bewildered in the wood, fell in with the right column, at the head of which was Lord Howe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Howe%2C_3rd_Viscount_Howe). A smart skirmish ensued, in which the enemy were driven back and scattered, with considerable loss. This petty advantage was dearly purchased by the death of Lord Howe.
There continues to be conjecture that Howe's death lead to the disaster soon to befall the British, as he had encouraged Abercrombie to bring forward the field cannon. That evening General Abercrombie pulled his men back to the landing site due to concerns about fatigue and time. During the night of July 7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_7) it was reported to Abercrombie that 3,000 French reinforcements were en route, and would be arriving soon.

July 8

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Montcalm_on_the_Plains_of_Abraham.jpg)
Montcalm leading his troops.


On the morning of July 8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_8) Abercrombie was determined to press his advantage before he lost his numerical superiority. The British forces faced a strongly fortified French position; while the fort was still under construction the French had thrown up high entrenchments, supported and flanked by three batteries. The land gave the British only one clear line of attack and that was blocked up with felled trees, with their branches, on Montcalm's instructions, turned outwards and sharpened. Abercrombie hastily moved his army into position, without giving time for the cannon to be moved up from the landing site. The battle was led by Rogers' Rangers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers%27_Rangers) pushing the few remaining scouts behind the entrenchments, the Rangers then moved out of the way to let the regular army through. The Highland Regiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Watch) then attacked (without direct orders), followed by the remainder of the army. The French position was such that they were able to lay down withering fire on the British forces as they advanced. Only briefly were any the British able to mount the wall of trees erected by the French, only to be pushed back by a bayonet charge.
Abercrombie was forced to order a retreat, although the highlanders were at first unwilling to give up on the battle having suffered great losses. The highlanders were the first into the battle proper, and the last to leave. Along the way they suffered the highest rate of loss of any British unit.
From the 1825 account:
Next morning, (July 8th), he again advanced the attack, his operations being hastened by information obtained from the prisoners that General Levi, with 3000 men, was advancing to succour Ticonderoga. Alarmed at the report of this unexpected reinforcements, the General determined to strike a decisive blow before a junction could be effected. When the troops marched up to the entrenchments, they were surprised to find a regularly fortified breast-work, which could not be approached without the greatest exertions, particularly as the artillery had not yet been brought up. Unexpected and disheartening as these obstructions were, the troops displayed the greatest resolution, though exposed to a most destructive fire, from an enemy well covered and enabled to take deliberate aim, with little danger to themselves. The Highlanders, impatient at being left in the rear, could not be restrained, and rushing forward from the reserve, were soon in the front, endeavouring to cut their way through the trees with their broadswords.
...
No ladders had been provided for scaling the breast-work. The soldiers were obliged to climb up on each other's shoulders, and by fixing their feet in the holes which they had made with their swords and bayonets in the face of the work, while the defenders were so well prepared that the instant a man reached the top, he was thrown down. At length, after great exertions, Captain John Campbell, with a few men, forced their way over the breast-work, but were immediately dispatched with the bayonet. The General, despairing of success, gave orders for a retreat; but, the Highlanders in particular were so obstinate, that it was not till after the third order from the General that the commanding officer, Colonel Grant, was able to prevail upon them to retreat, leaving on the field more than one-half of the men, and two-thirds of the officers, either killed or desperately wounded.
Impact on the "Black Watch"

The Black Watch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Watch) was "first in the attack, and last in the retreat", and paid dearly with the loss of many lives and many severely wounded. However, due to the gallantry of the 42nd at Ticonderoga, letters of service were issued for adding a second battalion, and an order to make the regiment Royal, "as a testimony of his Majesty's satisfaction and approbation of the extraordinary courage, loyalty, and exemplary conduct of the Highland regiment."
The vacancies occasioned in the 42nd by the deaths at Ticonderoga were filled up in regular succession. The second battalion was to be formed of the three additional companies raised the preceding year, and of seven companies to be immediately recruited. One historical view was that the nation was highly satisfied with the conduct of the army; and the regret occasioned by the loss of so many valuable lives was alleviated by the hope, that an enterprise, so gallantly though unsuccessfully conducted, offered a fair presage of future success and glory.
The old Highland regiment having suffered so severely, and the second battalion being ordered on another service, (to the West Indies), they were not employed again this year.
42nd Highland Officers Killed (plus 9 sergeants, and 297 soldiers):
Major: Duncan Campbell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_Campbell_%28soldier%29) of Inveraw.
Captain: John Campbell.
Lieutenants: George Farquharson; Hugh McPherson; William Baillie; and John Sutherland.
Ensigns: Patrick Stewart, son of Bonskied; and George Rattray.42nd Highland Officers Wounded (plus 10 sergeants, and 306 soldiers):
Captains: Gordon Graham of Drainie; Thomas Graham of Duchray; John Campbell (of Strachur) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_%28of_Strachur%29); James Stewart of Urrard; and James Murray of Strowen, son of Lord George Murray (and afterwards General).
Lieutenants: James Grant; Robert Gray; John Campbell; :William Grant; John Graham, brother of Duchray; Alexander Campbell; Alexander Mackintosh; Archibald Campbell; David Miller (Milne?); and Patrick Balneaves, son of Edradour.
Ensigns: John Smith; and Peter Grant.Legacy

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carillon_Flag.png"] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carillon_Flag.png)
The Carillon Flag, 1902.


Prior to his death at the Battle of the Plains of Abraham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Plains_of_Abraham), Montcalm correctly predicted that should New France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_France) ever fall, the British would in turn lose their cherished American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) colonies in the unrest that would follow. Curiously, one of the battles that opened the American Revolutionary War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War) occurred on the site of Montcalm's most famous victory: on May 10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_10), 1775 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1775), a group of colonials captured the small British garrison at Fort Ticonderoga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ticonderoga_%281775%29) – formerly known as Fort Carillon.
The battle is also the site of the legend of Duncan Campbell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_Campbell_%28soldier%29) who was cursed to die at Ticonderoga, a name that he had not heard until the battle.
The modern Flag of Quebec (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Quebec) was reputedly based upon a regimental banner carried by the victorious French-Ca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French-Canadian)nadian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French-Canadian) militia at Carillon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ticonderoga_%281758%29

[tippex22]

Not prehaps the greatest ,but great.In 1961 in a town called in Jadotville in the congo. A company of Irish u. n peacekeepers were surrounded by up to 4000 rebels who had heavy weapons and air support.The Irish only had light weapons and no support what so ever.The irish inflicted hundreds of casulties on the rebel army ( who were lead by european mercenaries ),and they suffered a handful of lightly wounded .With no water or ammo they were forced to surrender.
A great book that tells the true story well is " HERO'S OF JADOTVILLE ..the soldiers story. by rose doyle and leo quinlan.

[Andy-M]

Final word: Better dead than Welsh. :-)

must say I was enjoying reading this thread until I read this bull****, if the Mods on here can't be bothered to delete crap like this then any type of racist slagging off is obviously ok.

[California Joe]

Andy, I took it to be a joke. Much like when the Aussies and British say horrible things to each other in jest around here. Perhaps he can explain it to your satisfaction. If not, I would agree that he's a prick and I will make sure he leaves.

[Sheelon666]

Apologies to Andy-M, it was indeed intended to be a joke in much the way described by CJ. Being from Ireland myself, one has to learn to take it on the chin, as well as being able to dish it out. I DID smiley it, hoping that it would be taken as such.

[California Joe]

Now everyone hug and get back on topic.....

[Sheelon666]

*hug*

...now about those damn Persians...

[IanSolo]

I don't know if someone already wrote about it, but what about Camerone? FFL still celebrates that battle.

[Charlemagne]

HAs anyone ever considered the seige of Masada during the First Roman-Jewish War. About 960 defenders held off the entire Tenth Roman Legion.
Just food for thought...

[Willy]

HAs anyone ever considered the seige of Masada during the First Roman-Jewish War. About 960 defenders held off the entire Tenth Roman Legion.
Just food for thought...

But they did not actually kill any romans when doing suicide right after Romans managed to breach the walls.

[LazerLordz]

WW2 Battle of Pasir Panjang Ridge, Singapore

Bravo and Charlie Companies of the Malay Regiment and men attached from the 44th Indian Brigade fought for 48 hrs against the 18th Japanese Division and the 56th Japanese Infantry Regiment, holding out till their defeat and deaths on 14th Feb 1942.

Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pasir_Panjang)

[krasnayaarmiya]

Hundreds of engagements in southern Vietnam where local boys fought invading US infantry. Probably 95% of these worked out tactically as superb squad and company guerilla warfare. If you say it wasn't defensive, it could be argued the Viets DID think it was. Our intention may have not been aggressive, but it looked that way to a rice farmer. I really DON'T WANT to hurt any US Vietnam vets, but all you have to do is read About Face, the memoirs of Col. David Hackworth, one of the most decorated American soldiers ever. Once again, I mean no harm.

[Snoshi]

/sarcasm/ I really liked that whats that battle called.. when 300 Greek dudes defeat a extreme large army of Persian mutants and ninjas!!/Sarcasm/

But really it was an impressive stand.

[Masai]

Thermopylae, hands down. 300 Spartans vs. what, 200,000 Persians? THOSE are some odds...

Bloody helll !!!!


i wanna change my vote

[InetWarrior]

Al-Karameh in 1968...
No flame war intended...

[Mastermind]

VietNam was a small battle kind of war. Although the exceptions of the Tet offensive in Jan-Feb 1968 and several US and allied operations were on a large scale, we were primarily engaged in nothing larger than a brigade size fighting on a routine basis. In fact, (my era was Nov-1967-Sept 1968 operating just South of Hue 101st Abn Div Mech Cavalry) we were seldom engaged by anything larger than a platoon size unit. Yet, by the time I left, there was only two of us still from the original unit...all others had been killed or evacuated wounded before their year was up. That kind of attrition was unsustainable and the guys I stayed in contact with after the my war was over said things only got worse after I left. So, small unit combat was actually a win-win situation fo the North Vietnamese...it alowed them to never suffer losing a major battle and kept our casuaties at an ever increasing level. This is a lesson I am sure was not lost on the rest of the developing world..as we are experiencing the very same kind of warfare today. It is a war I personally believe we are again destined to lose. Small unit tactics work if they are constantly engaged and ruthless enough.

[Artegal]

Hi all, new to this forum.

I was intrigued by this thread, and like how it honours many of the most famous moments in the history of warfare, as well as being a real eye-opener about several incidents I hadn't heard about.

As a result, I thought I'd bring up a lesser known 'last stand' that many people may not be familiar with.

Like Rorke's Drift, it is one of those rare 'last stands', one in which the defenders were victorious (I'm not sure if this might disqualify it, and Rorke's Drift too, from consideration as a last stand).

Someone has mentioned it in this thread, but only in passing. I'm talking about the Defence of Kohima, the first part of the Battle of Kohima, which took place from the 5th to the 19th April 1944.

Amazing as the story of Rorke's Drift is, I can't help feeling that it is more a demonstration of how effective technological advantage can be in war: of the 15 British soldiers killed, about half were killed by rifle fire from the Oskarberg which overlooked the hospital station... rifle fire by Zulus who had picked up British rifles at the earlier battle of Isandhlwana (a genuine last stand of around 1,000 British soldiers against 20,000 Zulus: genuine in the sense that the British were almost completely wiped out). Fortunately for the Rorke's Drift garrison, the Zulus were not very accurate with the unfamiliar weapons.

The Defence of Kohima is different. Here, the opponents were about evenly matched in technological terms. Both had baynoets, rifles, grenades, machine guns and artillery, and neither the attackers nor the defending garrison had any armour.

Kohima was a tiny hill station, dominating the lone road which led from the supply base at Dimapur, down onto the Imphal plain, where the main part of 14th Army was awaiting the Japanese invasion of India from Burma, which was composed of British, Commonwealth and Indian troops.

14th Army was led by General William Slim, who is probably the best British commander of WWII, and could easily be counted as one of the best commanders of WWII on any side. Fighting in a neglected theatre that was almost always last on the list for any resources, 14th Army bitterly adopted the nickname 'Forgotten Army'. Later this became a badge of pride.

The Japanese did invade, and so began the long battle on the Imphal plain, in which Slim's surrounded 14th Army was supplied by air. It was such a complex battle that Slim's superior said afterwards he had difficulty understanding the report of it, and Slim had to resort to the idea of imagining the battle as a clockface, taking each of the actions in turn around it, although they were all simultaneous and had effects on each other.

However, at Kohima Slim had made one of his few mistakes, which he freely admitted afterwards. He and his staff had believed that the Japanese would only be able to send a single regiment through the terrible terrain northeast of Imphal, where they would cut the supply road from Dimapur that ran around the hill-station and village of Kohima.

This is an area of mountainous jungle, with some of the highest rainfall in the world. But as it happened, the Japanese commanders sent an entire division up to this area, and their objective was to capture Kohima, with a view to advancing further into India, depending on how the main action at Imphal went.

Kohima was defended by the 1st Assam Regiment, an Indian regiment, and also had a few hundred convalescents and administrative staff. Realising the size of the force advancing towards them, the 1st Assam Regiment fought several valiant delaying actions and the 50th Indian Parachute Regiment (mostly Gurkhas) which was posted northeast of Kohima sacrificed itself at Sangshak to delay the Japanese advance for a week. These actions at Sangshak, Jessami, Kharasom and Phek deserve their own place in the litany of last stands, but I'm trying not to stray too far from the main topic here.

Slim realised the danger, and did something practically unprecedented: he managed to scrape together enough planes to airlift the entire veteran British 2nd Division to Dimapur, straight from its successful offensive in the Arakan, and sending it down the road towards Kohima.

The desperate delaying actions by the 1st Assam and the sacrifice of the 50th Indian Parachute Regiment only half-worked. The remnants of the 1st Assam trickled bit by bit back to Kohima, where they began to organise for defence. They consisted of 266 men. With them were those couple of hundred convalescent and administrative staff. Towards them and around both sides of Kohima came about 13,000 Japanese soldiers.

And then 440 men of the 4th Royal West Kents raced ahead of the advancing 2nd British Division and on 5th April managed to enter the perimeter just as the jaws closed around Kohima. They were surrounded, and the Japanese set up roadblock after roadblock to stop the rest of 2nd British Division from reaching them. The tiny garrison now had to survive until relief came.

Even being generous with the unknown number of administrative staff, the garrison itself consisted of about a thousand men. This placed the odds at about 13-1. This may not be entirely fair, as of course the Japanese also had the advancing 2nd British Division to contend with, but for the most part they simply set up roadblocks and detached forces to delay the advancing British. Their objective was the capture of the commanding position of Kohima, and that was the main focus of their efforts.

For two weeks, in pouring rain and under continual bombardment, the British and Indian garrison held on. They were slowly driven back, from one position after another, to the hill itself, which consisted of a series of flat 'steps' leading up to its summit. Here, in the District Commissioner's Bungalow the defenders had their HQ. A few 'steps' further down from here was the attached tennis court. This became the infamous scene of the 'battle within a battle', the Battle of the Tennis Court. The British and Indians were literally dug in on one side of the tennis court, the Japanese on the other, exchanging grenades, rifle fire and machine-gun fire, interspersed with desperate hand to hand fighting with bayonets when the Japanese made wild assaults of almost suicidal bravery. The defenders built barricades from the piled bodies of the attackers, the entire area eventually becoming a thick carpet of blackened and rotting corpses. When digging in, they found often themselves digging through the dead before hitting earth. One British officer digging in through the corpses on ground that had see-sawed back and forth in possession with the enemy found his friend's body this way. He had disappeared after leading a desparate counterattack three days before. The officer only recognised him from his watch and identity discs.

The perimeter had shrunk to 600 yards and was under constant bombardment by artillery. There were so many wounded that the dressing stations didn't have enough space, and dozens of the wounded had to be left lying outside in scraped out trenches to await their turn for treatment, where the bombardment wounded many a second and third time, killing others.

On 14th April, Lt-Col John Laverty, commanding the 4th Royal West Kents, reported to the garrison commander, Colonel Hugh Richards, that 'The men's spirits are all right, but there aren't many of us left,' and that if help was not received within forty-eight hours, Kohima would fall.

5 days later, on the 19th April, the perimeter had shrunk to 350 yards square, but still included the shattered corpse-covered tennis court. The terrain had been blasted to mud by the constant shellfire, shattered trees hung with the ghostly remnants of parachutes: the garrison had been supplied by air. On this day, the 2nd British Division finally managed to batter their way through to their trapped brothers in Kohima. They were confronted by the exhausted remains of the garrison who were described as 'filthy, bearded, bedraggled scarecrows'. They were also horrified by the desolation of Kohima Ridge. 'The stench of festering corpses... the earth ploughed by shell-fire... human remains lay rotting as the battle raged over them... flies swarmed everywhere and multiplied with incredible speed... Men retched as they dug in... the stink hung in the air and permeated clothes and hair... We were profoundly shocked by the conditions on Garrison Hill.'

One of the generals of 2nd British Division had served in the First World War as a junior officer on the Western Front, being wounded three times and winning the Military Cross. When he saw the battlefield at Kohima, he whispered that it was worse than anything he had ever seen.

As it turned out, the tennis court was the high-tide mark of the Japanese attacks on Kohima. That was as far as they could get. They showed incredible bravery in their attacks that astonished the defenders time and time again. And now the Battle of Kohima continued as the Japanese went on the defensive, and held on for weeks with as much tenacious courage in that awful terrain as the defenders of Kohima had, while the 2nd British Division relieved the garrison and continued battering their way south to reach the rest of the embattled 14th Army at Imphal.

How such a tiny garrison held on for so long against the numbers and assaults that were thrown at it can only really be explained by the fact that this was probably some of the most perfect defensive terrain in the world. Pouring rain, slicked mud, steep stepped hillsides all contributed to the defenders' victory, but this is in no way a disparagement of their achievement. But at the same time, the sheer ferocious tenacity and incredible courage of the Japanese soldiers in pressing home their attacks despite sometimes staggering casualties should be recognised.

The cemetery at Kohima is sited on the tennis court itself. The War Memorial for the 161 Brigade of the Indian Army (of which the 1st Assam Regiment was part) bears the inscription 'At Kohima in April 1944, the Japanese invasion of India was halted'.

While many British regiments took part in the Battle of Kohima, only the Royal West Kents were allowed to bear the battle-honour 'Defence of Kohima' on their colours. Their motto was Invicta, which in Latin means 'Unconquered'.

There are many excellent books about the war in Burma, and I'm sure there are others here who have read about it that might see that I have left individual details out, and some who might take issue with the fact I've described the 2nd British Division as having been advancing from the start... I know they spent a long time reorganising after the airlift before starting to march down the road to relieve Kohima, and that only the 4th Royal West Kents raced ahead early on, but I figure that the mere unexpected presence of the 2nd British Division would have been a factor in the calculations of Sato (the Japanese commander) from the start, so the effect was there - I think the airlift itself counts as a sort of advance against Sato's division! Of the books, in particular, 'Not Ordinary Men' by John Colvin is the source for much of the detail above.

I think the plaque placed at the site of the Battle of Thermopylae has been quoted several times in this thread... there are several translations of the Greek, one of the best being:


Go tell the Spartans, thou who passest by,
That here obedient to their laws we lie.


The Defence of Kohima has been described as 'naked unparalleled heroism, the British/Indian Thermopylae'.

The inscription on the War Memorial for the 2nd British Division (of which the 4th Royal West Kents were part) reads as a deliberate reflection of the original lines commemorating that original and most famous last stand:


When you go home
Tell them of us and say
For your tomorrow
We gave our today

[Hydro]

The Royal West Kents are one of our forebear Regiments, and the Regiment celebrates with a Kohima Dinner in April. An amazing stand.

[California Joe]

Helluva first post Artegal. Welcome.

[Laconian]

Excellent write-up. Welcome aboard.

[HOLLiS]

Excellent story, I often wonder how many event like this in history get forgotten in time, or how many that are never recorded.

Welcome to the forum.

[James]

Bumped by request.

[nazara]

Famous words of W. Churchill....
I mean come on guys...I know it is the latest fashion to hate Iran/Persia these days...but coming up with numbers such as 300 men vs. 200.000 Persians..I mean in the 1990's with all the technology in the world, several countries..etc.,..it took several months to gather anything close to that number..Just thinking about the logistics 200.000 soldiers would require?!?!? how many sheeps, cows, "house wifes" had to travel with these number of soldiers to provide them with food, etc.?!?!

There is no doubt that what the Spartans did was indeed impressive, and very brave...but saying that they saved Democracy etc., is IMHO not the case...Under the rule of Cyrus II the Great, the Cyrus Cylinder was issued. This is considered (by the United Nations) to be the first Universal Declaraton of Human Rights in history...so I mean how "bad" could they have been that today we are to believe that the Spartans "saved" US from THEM...so we could go on and crucify people 500 years after that....Once again I have all the respect for the Spartan soldiers that fought the battle (no matter how many they were), since the odds were badly against them...but lets not get carried away, just because it is the latest fashion to hate Iran (and what ever they have done or achived)...just my 2 cents...(gotta get back to the books...Pathology exam in 5 days..in need of your prayers:) )...

Ohh by the way....I think it is in its place to at least mention the people of Afghanistan when it comes to battles/wars against all odds when they fought the Russains (I think they were called freedom fighters then, and later when they fought us we call them terroists).....The Yum kippur battle/war is IMHO also impressive as it was fought on several fronts against a much more numerous and better equipped (on paper) enemy....

Have a nice day/night where ever you are on OUR (US and THEM) planet...

[matthew.manhorn]

Monte Cassino
Pavlov's House, or the Battle of Stalingrad in general.
Zaylo(?) heights during the Battle of Berlin

[blueactive]

I have a few favorites. I voted for Rorkes Drift, because unlike the other battles offered in the poll, the 2nd Warwickshires actually held out and didn't die to the last man.

I have some other favorites that while meeting the criteria are a bit less conventional.


The defense of the Pons Sublicious by Horatius Cocles, Titus Herminius & Spurius Lartius during the Roman/Etruscan war in 510 BC was really something. Three against 5,000 in single combat. I'm didn't see where anyone else mentioned it.

I think Baden-Powells defense of Mafeking during the Boer War was a display of military genius. A handful of British officers and irregular troops holding off 8,000 Boers who had artillery.

I am also fond of the brave attack by the remaining two Widlcats of VMF-211 at Wake Island (Captain Freuler and Lt. Davidson) when they plunged in to attack a formation of 30 plus Japanese naval aircraft and shot down several.

I think the finest hour of the US Navy was at the Battle of Samar Island where Task Group 77.4's escort division of three Destroyers and a Destroyer Escort charged into battle against Adm. Kurita's Center Force of 4 Battleships, 6 Heavy Cruisers, 2 light Cruisers and 11 Destroyers and inflicted significant damage while preventing Kurita's capital ships from closing with the carriers and wiping them out.

[livefast2011]

Hey Guys im new here...but heres my contribution to this great thread!

The choices that we are given to vote for are all great examples of a small force fending off a much larger force, however some are more impressive than others. I believe it was Artegal (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=31533) who noted on the fact that during rorkes drift, it was Armed british forces vs. Zulu warriors with a few rifles. Much like some of the battles in the west with Cherokee or Chocktaw indians. So while the numbers were against the brits the tactical advantage was with them.

Which Brings me to the topic of the battle of thermoplyae...I actually did a speech in the performance catagories at National History Day on this topic, got 3rd at state which is one place away from making nationals.. I would have gone to Nationals if i hadnt been judged by 3 ancient ladies....:bash:
The spartans had alot more guts than we sometimes give them credit for..Not only did they go out with only a 300 man force to meet an army but they did so without the approval of thier country OR thier gods.
"The games at Olympia and the Spartan Carneia festival could not be missed without offending the Gods ."
So for all intents and purposes these men went Rogue. I cant even find a way to compare this except to say it would be like a company in our military defying orders from the president and going off to defend the country even though it meant they would all be court marshalled when they returned.

Herodutus- in his book "The Histories" - the only primary source we have on the battle of thermopylae(yet this wasnt good enough for the hags:cantbeli:) puts the persian figures at 2.6 million...I find that a but extreme however i do agree with some historians who note that this figure could indeed be accurate but the majority of it would be support troops and not actual warriors. Nevertheless the spartans even with their greek allies. (thebans and thespians) still were outragously outnumbered. I read a thesis on Leonidas' mental stability and the author stated that he must have been a tactical genius. (No duh) but truthfully putting his troops in a position where they COULD effectively use the Phalynx, and where Xerxes poorly armored warriors would not be able to overwhelm the greek forces by sheer volume...was indeed genius.

I would have to say that this was in deed the greatest small unit defensive (so far) in history. The sacrifice of the spartans made xerxes rethink his advance into greece, while the athenian navy had been able to mobilize and defeat the persian navy in the ensuing naval battle.

The spartans however are legends. I do not think we sould overlook the mentality of these men, they came to that pass TO DIE. Every last man of the 300 had a son who would carry on his bloodline so if the spartan died there was nothing to worry about. They came in spite of the repurcussions that they would face if they prevailed, and the punishment they would face in death because of thier neglecting thier Gods festivals. I dont know how a man could march to his death calmly, knowing that that night he would die and he would indeed be going to "hell" so to speak.

Well thats my 2 cents so talk it for what its worth or flame me:P