Adm. Mullen: disconnect between U.S. military and broader public

[Ordie]

"America doesn't know its military and the United States military doesn't know America," said Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

More:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/11/AR2011011104458.html

[Ghelp]

http://www.murdoconline.net/2007/americaisatthemall-thumb.jpg

[joeyl]

This is just my opinion but America doesn't want to know us. A large majority still view us as the bloodthirsty frat boys that Hollywood portrays, or uneducated bumpkins who used the military as means of escaping. Every effort to reach out to the public has been met with raised eye brows as if their is some kind of sinister motive behind it. It feels like they do not want to make an effort because then they would see us as people and not a faceless organization. I'm done with my rantings now.

[LineDoggie]

Let me translate Mullenspeak:

The Military isnt reflecting the values of the college age youth progressives and it butthurts me that the Army and Marines dont embrace it.

[Laconian]

http://www.murdoconline.net/2007/americaisatthemall-thumb.jpg

This was actually the first thing I thought of, then I read the article and it confirmed it. How can people relate to something they have no contact with? 1% of the population are in the military? That means 99% of the population have no or only peripheral contact with the military. Representations by popular media/culture then forms the image people have of the military. Perfect.

"I support the troops. I have a yellow ribbon on my car."

[cavsalute]

Let me translate Mullenspeak:

The Military isnt reflecting the values of the college age youth progressives and it butthurts me that the Army and Marines dont embrace it.

X2

It's kind of stupid for him to say that we should be apolitical but shrink the gulf between the military and the public. Those two things are mutually exclusive.

[Gunge]

"America doesn't know its military BUT the United States military knowS America,"

fixed it for him

how could the military, who comes from America, literally is America not know America?
im beginning to wonder about him

[artjomh]

Well, that's what often happens to a professional military.

Instead of citizen soldiers being everyone's sons and daughters, the perception is that the military is "some dudes getting paid to kill some other dudes God knows where". Please do not get offended. I mean no disrespect, but that is quite often the way things are perceived from the "outside".

There is a more natural connection between a civilian population and the military when the servicemen and servicewomen are drafted.

[Ordie]

A generation ago, just about everyone personally knew someone in the military and veterans of WW2, Korea, Vietnam and Cold War. Today I have yet to personally meet anyone who has been in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Open houses and base tours were once the norm, since 9/11 they have been off-limits to civilians.

[Dominique]

X2

It's kind of stupid for him to say that we should be apolitical but shrink the gulf between the military and the public. Those two things are mutually exclusive.

No it's not. The US military is supposed to stay out of politics. We don't need to get into political bickering to have general population re-connect with the military. What we do need to do is a batter job of communicating with the public, and making use of programs like ESGR "boss days", and just generally getting out in the public. As it stands now how many installation, or commands have policies against you wearing your uniform in public?

[Ordie]

how could the military, who comes from America, literally is America not know America?
im beginning to wonder about him

How often does the civilian / military communities interact beyond the 5 mile radius of military bases or local bars? The military does a wonderful job at fixing orphanages overseas and medical screenings on hospital ships in places like Nicaragua, but does it do the same locally within their communities at home?

Perhaps the military should take notice of the smallest military branches, the Coast Guard. Everyday I see their orange helicopters flying responding to calls but also supporting local jurisdictions with stranded hikers or medical evacuations. They have regular open houses, and interacting with the local community about boat safety and educating the public about their mission. Whenever there's a rescue mission, I always see them on TV.

[Kaplanr]

QFT! We used to learn the mantra "every soldier a son or daughter, every son or daughter a soldier."


Well, that's what often happens to a professional military.

Instead of citizen soldiers being everyone's sons and daughters, the perception is that the military is "some dudes getting paid to kill some other dudes God knows where". Please do not get offended. I mean no disrespect, but that is quite often the way things are perceived from the "outside".

There is a more natural connection between a civilian population and the military when the servicemen and servicewomen are drafted.

[IconOfEvi]

Thank God I live in a heavily military state. Pretty much all of us in our city know someone who is in the forces.

It frankly boggles me how so much of the population doesnt know the military.

[Laconian]

The media and certain political groups did so much to disassociate America from the military after Vietnam that we haven't recovered. Stigmas assigned (and lies attributed) to the military after that war are still prevalent in our country today. Add to that the 1973 (?) transition to an All-Volunteer Force and the continuing down sizing of Active and Reserve Components and you have several generations that think the military is a combination of Platoon!, Stripes and Three Kings. How many posts are open for Armed Forces Day? Again it was the '70s when they stopped holding them because everyone wanted to "forget." BRAC further alienated the military from the civilian population: fewer bases means fewer people near military communities. The first Gulf War and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have not affected the nation the way WWI, WWII and VN did; for the most part America (and Americans) have gotten on with their lives and "watch" the war.

Now we wonder why the society doesn't know the military?

[cavsalute]

A generation ago, just about everyone personally knew someone in the military and veterans of WW2, Korea, Vietnam and Cold War. Today I have yet to personally meet anyone who has been in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Open houses and base tours were once the norm, since 9/11 they have been off-limits to civilians.

Closing posts to the general public is an unfortunate side effect of security requirements. It only really distances us from the public in the long run. But Posts are not completely closed to the public. There are often things like airshows where the public is allowed to come onto post and see first hand everything there.

IMO the vast majority of the public could care less about visiting military facilities and only become interested when they are no longer allowed to just waltz into one.

You really have not met anyone personally that has been to Iraq or Afghanistan?

[Laconian]

How often does the civilian / military communities interact beyond the 5 mile radius of military bases or local bars? The military does a wonderful job at fixing orphanages overseas and medical screenings on hospital ships in places like Nicaragua, but does it do the same locally within their communities at home?

Perhaps the military should take notice of the smallest military branches, the Coast Guard. Everyday I see their orange helicopters flying responding to calls but also supporting local jurisdictions with stranded hikers or medical evacuations. They have regular open houses, and interacting with the local community about boat safety and educating the public about their mission. Whenever there's a rescue mission, I always see them on TV.

Rescue is a USCG mission. Some Infantry BDE coming back or preparing to go on deployment doesn't have the time/training/equipment or resources for that kind of stuff.

[Ordie]

You really have not met anyone personally that has been to Iraq or Afghanistan?

Nope.

I've met individuals who fought in WW1, WW2 (I've even met Pappy Boyington and the guy who shot him down), Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Gulf War 1 and Cold War.

But not a single one who has been to Iraq or Afghanistan.

[cavsalute]

No it's not. The US military is supposed to stay out of politics. We don't need to get into political bickering to have general population re-connect with the military. What we do need to do is a batter job of communicating with the public, and making use of programs like ESGR "boss days", and just generally getting out in the public. As it stands now how many installation, or commands have policies against you wearing your uniform in public?

I should clarify my statement. I meant public in the light of college age progressives, I should have been more specific. But I do think there needs to be some amount of distance for the military to be truly apolitical. I can appreciate your point though.

[cavsalute]

Nope.

I've met individuals who fought in WW1, WW2 (I've even met Pappy Boyington and the guy who shot him down), Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Gulf War 1 and Cold War.

But not a single one who has been to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Give it some time, i'm sure you will run into one.

[Ordie]

I should clarify my statement. I meant public in the light of college age progressives, I should have been more specific. But I do think there needs to be some amount of distance for the military to be truly apolitical. I can appreciate your point though.

The military should reflect the society that its serves.
DADT, and the exclusion of women of specific jobs are a factor in the growing divide.

[Clear_blues]

well frankly, we scare them. Walk into a college campus in uniform, the atmosphere changes, people become wary and will always keep an eye on you. You're foreign to them, something to be avoided, a curiosity to sneak glances at.

[Atlantic Friend]

I wonder if that is a side effect of the overly dramatic representation of US soldiers as either despicable war criminals or greater-than-life all-American heroes? Hard to relate on a personal level with people you're told either to look down on or look up to, perhaps.

[chauncy republicans]

Nope.

I've met individuals who fought in WW1, WW2 (I've even met Pappy Boyington and the guy who shot him down), Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Gulf War 1 and Cold War.

But not a single one who has been to Iraq or Afghanistan.

That's because you probably surround yourself with dirtball, loser, progressives.
Of course non of them would ever man up and serve, your talking about the same lowlife sissies who think it's better to murder their unborn child than being father.
:cantbeli:

[Ordie]

That's because you probably surround yourself with dirtball, loser, progressives.
Of course non of them would ever man up and serve, your talking about the same lowlife sissies who think it's better to murder their unborn child than being father.
:cantbeli:

I take personal offense in your statement.

It is OUR military.

Not the GOP's, not the Southerners, not the generals.

It is OUR military.

[Hollis]

I think one of the contributors is that the percentage of Veterans in the American population is shrinking. The average person contract with the military is probably reading something about a new game coming out, the news, or they just ignore it.

[Ghelp]

Being on Rec-Assistance (Recruiting) I really got to see some stuff I wish I didin't.We weren't even allowed to be in High Schools.All the youth just talk about Call of Duty.Getting kicked out of retail stores and people flicking your medals like if it's a toy. (Keep in mind not all civies are like this)

It's really pathetic to see it.Especially for the injured and disabled vets.Hell you had a Marine NCO get stabbed infront of his wife in full dress blues with combat ribbons and all.

[Atlantic Friend]

I think one of the contributors is that the percentage of Veterans in the American population is shrinking. The average person contract with the military is probably reading something about a new game coming out, the news, or they just ignore it.

Makes sense. I suppose it was easier to relate when there was a draft as well, come to think of it.

It's like military service in France - when we had it, everybody had some story about what he had seen/done in uniform. Now that the army has gone professional, the circle of "military-aware" people has shrunk, and for better or for worse the military has become a world apart to most civilians.

[Fat Lazy American]

well frankly, we scare them. Walk into a college campus in uniform, the atmosphere changes, people become wary and will always keep an eye on you. You're foreign to them, something to be avoided, a curiosity to sneak glances at.

Depends on the college campus, greatly.

And all of what Admiral Mullen is discussing depends on the region, the neighborhood, the culture, etc.

I'm betting Mullen chose to live in Montgomery County, not Fairfax County, and his kids are attending UC Berkeley or Oberlin or something.

[HollywoodMarine]

Mullen sounds like a senile fool. Gen. Pace would not come up with such brain farts ideas.

MO... I'm buying. But be sure to bring your wallet just in the case I max-out my cards. ;)

[HollywoodMarine]

Ordie is that relative we find annoying and distant ourselves during family BBQ's, due to his political opinions. "Hey Ordie, do you want steak, ribs, chicken, burger? Now now, cousin Ordie... I asked what you want to eat, not what I think about the inhumane living conditions these animals faced at the slaughter house." p-)

[Ordie]

Well hot damn Ordie, we will have to meet for coffee or something then. I am a veteran of both and still serving, so I guess that means you're buying.

It would be my honor to treat you for some organic chai soy latte or coffee if you like.

In my lifetime, I've been privilaged to hear first hand stories of an Army railway engineer in WW1 France. My neighbors teenaged stories of Japanese bombings of Kunmming and seeing AVG (Flying Tigers) flying over the city. My high school science teacher's Naval experience with the Incheon landings Korea. My co-workers experinces in Vietnam in all services. My P-3 Orion squadron mates experiences in targeting Iraqi Naval units in Operation Desert Storm. My college classmates experiences in Somalia as a Marine.

Heck I've even had lunch with a Sandinista Rebel leader (Dora Maria Tellez) in Nicaragua (who later became a chain smoking minister of health) and a cousin who was in the Mexican Army in Chiapas.

But I've never met a person who's been to Iraq or Afghanistan.

[Clear_blues]

Depends on the college campus, greatly.

I go to a state college

[LineDoggie]

A generation ago, just about everyone personally knew someone in the military and veterans of WW2, Korea, Vietnam and Cold War. Today I have yet to personally meet anyone who has been in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Open houses and base tours were once the norm, since 9/11 they have been off-limits to civilians.


West Point has daily tours even thought the Museum is now outside the base. One of my Duties when assigned for 10 day s at a time to the Museum was to check ID before the Civvies got on the bus to tour the base. The drove to the parade ground before dismounting and a tour guide walked them throught the MEVA and the overlooks over the hudson and to Ft. Putnam.
This was from April to October 2002 Ordie.

[CantGetRight]

Your awful quick to claim ownership of the military.

Seems that the majority of OUR countries population simply doesn't wish to serve. So small circles of the population make for the majority of soldiers. I am the son of a veteran, who is the son of a veteran. I would venture to say that the majority of soldiers I know come from families with close connections to the military themselves. You go with what you know, and to the majority of the population, the military couldn't be less familiar.

I have traveled enough to see just how unfamiliar a sight we are, and how ignorant/misinformed most people are, especially about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You really do have a bone to pick with southerners don't you? Implying that the military is somehow posessed by the southerners, generals and the GOP shows just how ignorant you are on the matter.

[Dankster]

If anything, half of those comments on the article prove Mullen's point

[SoSo]

Let me translate Mullenspeak:

The Military isnt reflecting the values of the college age youth progressives and it butthurts me that the Army and Marines dont embrace it.

Is Admiral Mullen more liberal than most military officers tend to be? I hadn't heard that. I know he strongly opposes military action against Iran, but that doesn't necessarily make someone a liberal.

[KEEPER0311]

Being on Rec-Assistance (Recruiting) I really got to see some stuff I wish I didin't.We weren't even allowed to be in High Schools.All the youth just talk about Call of Duty.Getting kicked out of retail stores and people flicking your medals like if it's a toy. (Keep in mind not all civies are like this)

It's really pathetic to see it.Especially for the injured and disabled vets.Hell you had a Marine NCO get stabbed infront of his wife in full dress blues with combat ribbons and all.

x2.

I remember being asked to leave shopping centers and stores because the management was getting complaints about me. Mind you I was in uniform, and being picture perfect Marine. Not to mention constantly being asked if you've taken a life, or if things are as cool as the video games make them seem.

[eskachig]

Might be an outcome of the end of the Cold War, and the corresponding lack of existential threats. When people were living under a perpetual threat of nuclear destruction, the military was an important protector of daily peace and security. These days a lot of people see the military as a faceless arm of the government that's responsible for bombing brown people ( and Serbs, but people hardly noticed that one at all ). Part of the problem, is that the wars of the last half-century have been a bit murky, and not always sold to the populace. It's been a very long time since the average person could point at a conflict and describe exactly why we are there, and how us being there is protecting America.

[Dominique]

The vast majority of the public's view of the military is shaped by media coverage. Anytime someone in the military, (or who's even spent a single day in the military), does something stupid, it's all over the news, video games (becuase apparently everyone in the military is either A SEAL, A Ranger, an counter terrorist Operator, etc., or movies (We either super human, corrupt, inept, or stupid). We could do a lot better job of conducting things like tours of bases, having PAOs get out into local communities, get more involved in volunteer work (Police, Fire, EMS, homeless shelters, women’s shelters, Big Brother/Big Sister, etc (and making corrections to inaccuracies in the media), and just having "average" military members appear in public forums (not political forums, but doing things like speaking to business groups, boy scouts, etc.).

[Ordie]

I would like to see the US Navy reconnect with smaller coastal communities by port visits. It would be fantastic if the Navy sent it's LCS vessels to Newport Oregon, Juneau Alaska, Milwaukee, Pago Pago, Tampa, Eureka etc....

A tiger cruise for the press, locals and marine biology university students would be a great way to reconnect the civilians with it's own military.