75% of US Jews favor Kerry over Bush

[SeanAshi]

A new poll commissioned by the National Jewish Democratic Council says American Jews will still vote overwhelmingly for the Democratic presidential candidate, John Kerry, despite US President George W. Bush's policies toward Israel, which have been widely praised by the Jewish community.
The poll, released on Monday, said American Jews preferred Kerry to Bush by a 75 to 22 percent margin. The survey of 817 likely Jewish voters was conducted by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research between July 26 and 28, and has a margin of error of +/- 3.5 percent.
Respondents said in 2000 they had voted for Vice President Al Gore over Bush by a similar margin of 76 to 21 percent.
Exit polls in 2000 showed Gore won 79 percent of the Jewish vote, and Bush 19 percent.
"The White House and (President Bush's political adviser) Karl Rove in particular have expended a lot of resources on this Jewish vote. Just like with Hispanics, they've come up with zero," said Ira Forman, executive director of NJDC.
Matthew Brooks, executive director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, a rival group, discounted the survey's results since the poll was taken during the Democratic Convention in Boston.
"I discount these findings because this poll was taken right in the middle of the Democratic Convention, right in the middle of a massive deluge of Kerry press coverage," Brooks said.
"We stand firmly committed to the notion that President Bush will do substantially better among Jewish voters than he did in 2000," Brooks added.
Another survey of American Jewish opinion in January found that 31 percent of Jews would support Bush when matched with Kerry, who was not yet the nominee at the time.
The new NJDC survey said 66 percent found Kerry to be better on the issue of Israel, while 34 percent found Bush to be. Only 23 percent of respondents felt the country was moving in the right direction, while 77 percent said it was on the wrong track. Twenty-five percent approved strongly or somewhat of the way Bush is handling his job as president, while 75 percent disapproved strongly or somewhat.
A new national Zogby survey released Monday showed Kerry ahead of Bush 47 to 43 percent. Without Independent Ralph Nader and other candidates the lead stretched to 50 to 43 percent
http://www.dallasdancemusic.com/forums/images/smilies/puke.gif

[fred_engles]

Damn straight.

[ExtraT]

People that studied Statistics know that polls like that are a complete waste of time. They are absolutely artificial - this one was ordered by the Democrats, so it showed results favorable for them. The previous one was ordered by Republicans - it showed different results.

[scm77]

Nascar fans will overwhelmingly vote Bush.

"Polo Moms" will overwhelmingly vote Kerry.

We could go back and fourth all day.

[StarvingStudent47]

The majority of American Jews are liberal on most issues, from public school funding to abortion to taxation to gay marriage. I don't have any statistics to prove this, but it's the impression I've gotten from being an American Jew, and knowing other American Jews. Kerry has a good Middle East policy as well. When you combine domestic issues and Middle East issues, it's not surprising

Yes, there are some politically conservative American Jews, as I'm sure certain board members will point out (SeanAshi, RussianAmerican, etc). But in my experience they're perhaps 20% of the American Jewish population.

[American Patriot]

Not surprising

[Red]

I wish that one day politics will move away from party based plotics to politics that is about substance.I have a hard time believing anything politicians say and that goes for both parties,all i want is the right person who has the best interest of this country and its people at heart.I dont know which of these two candidates fill that description.I want someone to come after me not becaus ei am black but becaus ethat person really wants me to understand where they are coming from and that person truly cares about my needs.Instead u have people who just look at you as someone to be "targeted".If things keep going the way they are going,i will not vote-for anyone because as far as i am concerned the two candidates are just two unbelievable to me.

[Locked N Loaded]

I live in S. Florida, need I say more! Not being Jewish I can't really say, but I can say this, I have not seen any such poll. And did not see a link to the article, not that it would help. It was a Democratic poll taken during the Convention in Boston. I would venture to say if the same poll was taken weeks from now in N.Y. during the Republican Convention the numbers would flip-flop....(did I say flip-flop?)...lol.... rofl

L n L

[SeanAshi]

I just do not believe that Israel will be safer under John Kerry although he claims it will be. Kerry wants the Jewish American vote, he knowing Bush's support of Israel might have caused some Jews to vote republican, but we will find out in a couple of months.

[SeanAshi]

I got the article from the Jerusalem Post.

[Marmot1]

The majority of American Jews are liberal on most issues, from public school funding to abortion to taxation to gay marriage. I don't have any statistics to prove this, but it's the impression I've gotten from being an American Jew, and knowing other American Jews. Kerry has a good Middle East policy as well. When you combine domestic issues and Middle East issues, it's not surprising

Yes, there are some politically conservative American Jews, as I'm sure certain board members will point out (SeanAshi, RussianAmerican, etc). But in my experience they're perhaps 20% of the American Jewish population.

Add to this Kerry's jewish ancestors (grandparents at least) and you know why majority of jews support him...

[UkrainianAmerican]

The majority of American Jews are liberal on most issues, from public school funding to abortion to taxation to gay marriage. I don't have any statistics to prove this, but it's the impression I've gotten from being an American Jew, and knowing other American Jews. Kerry has a good Middle East policy as well. When you combine domestic issues and Middle East issues, it's not surprising

Yes, there are some politically conservative American Jews, as I'm sure certain board members will point out (SeanAshi, RussianAmerican, etc). But in my experience they're perhaps 20% of the American Jewish population.

Add to this Kerry's jewish ancestors (grandparents at least) and you know why majority of jews support him...
First time I am hearing this. Not like this would have any effect.

[StarvingStudent47]

Add to this Kerry's jewish ancestors (grandparents at least) and you know why majority of jews support him...

I think he's like 1/8 Jewish and never even considered being a practicing Jew. No, his tiny amount of Jewish ancestry didn't influence the Jewish vote. ****, Hitler had as much Jewish blood in him as Kerry. It means nothing. EDIT--I found the info. Kerry had one grandparent who was born Jewish but converted to Catholicism. Kerry only learned about this 15 years ago; he was born and raised Catholic, and is Catholic to this day.

Like I said, the critical thing here is domestic politics. The vast majority of American Jews are pro-choice. Kerry is pro-choice; Bush is pro-life. The majority of American Jews support gay marriage. Kerry is ambiguous on the issue; Bush is as hardline anti-gay-marriage as you can be. And so on.

If blood ties were all Jews paid attention to, they'd all vote Republican because Wolfowitz and Pearle are in Bush's cabinet. Likewise, all blacks would be Republican because of Powell and Rice. But that's not how people vote in the real world.

[Fintin]

If blood ties were all Jews paid attention to, they'd all vote Republican because Wolfowitz and Pearle are in Bush's cabinet. Likewise, all blacks would be Republican because of Powell and Rice. But that's not how people vote in the real world.

my catholic relitives are going Kerry because they love JFK...nothing more then that...so sadly that is how some people vote...

[FallenAngel]

He's Catholic in name but he goes against several Catholic dogmas- especially regarding abortion and gay-marriages. He even has to go to a special church in Boston with a rebel priest because no respectable Catholic priest will offer him communion since the Pope declared that politicians that support abortion and gay marriages are just as "guilty" as those who actually have an abortion or marry a person of the same sex.

Bush is "more Catholic" than Kerry is despite being a Methodist.

[Macs.]

I just do not believe that Israel will be safer under John Kerry although he claims it will be. Kerry wants the Jewish American vote, he knowing Bush's support of Israel might have caused some Jews to vote republican, but we will find out in a couple of months.

Just because someone is jewish doesn't mean he has anything to do with israel. :roll:

[Fintin]

He's Catholic in name but he goes against several Catholic dogmas- especially regarding abortion and gay-marriages. He even has to go to a special church in Boston with a rebel priest because no respectable Catholic priest will offer him communion since the Pope declared that politicians that support abortion and gay marriages are just as "guilty" as those who actually have an abortion or marry a person of the same sex.

Bush is "more Catholic" than Kerry is despite being a Methodist.

i know thats the funny part...my relatives are staunch chatholics...wont even look at meat on a friday...but JFK was catholic and a democrat...they wont even look at the fact he is pro abortion, or any of that...

[StarvingStudent47]

He's Catholic in name but he goes against several Catholic dogmas- especially regarding abortion and gay-marriages. He even has to go to a special church in Boston with a rebel priest because no respectable Catholic priest will offer him communion since the Pope declared that politicians that support abortion and gay marriages are just as "guilty" as those who actually have an abortion or marry a person of the same sex.

Bush is "more Catholic" than Kerry is despite being a Methodist.

If I were a Catholic in Boston, I'd go to a rebel catholic church too. Remember that whole thing with Cardinal Bernard Law helping Gaughin cover up his long history of child molestation? A lesbian friend of mine was told she was going to hell by her Catholic priest, but a Cardinal who aids and abets a child molester gets off with a slap on the wrist?! Yeah...the Boston archdiocese has some issues.

Anyway, sorry about the tangent. Back to Kerry in 2004...

[SeanAshi]

You can't make peace when the other side when they wont compromise or enforce law and order I'm refering to Arafat and his PA/PLO. Rabin, Peres, Netanyahu, Barak and Sharon have tried and made attempts to compromise in certain areas but nothing on the Palestinian side, Arafat is your typical dictator and the Palestinians have really never had a leader other then Arafat. Arafat has failed as a diplomat and he knows this and will be remembered as nothing more then a terrorist. John Kerry believes he can bring peace...let him try if he is elected.

[Seiyuuki]

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that.

[StarvingStudent47]

You can't make peace when the other side when they wont compromise or enforce law and order I'm refering to Arafat and his PA/PLO. Rabin, Peres, Netanyahu, Barak and Sharon have tried and made attempts to compromise in certain areas but nothing on the Palestinian side, Arafat is your typical dictator and the Palestinians have really never had a leader other then Arafat. Arafat has failed as a diplomat and he knows this and will be remembered as nothing more then a terrorist. John Kerry believes he can bring peace...let him try if he is elected.

He has promised no more and no less than Bush promised at the outset of the Roadmap. I suspect his efforts will be as genuine, and as unsuccessful, as Bush's, for the reasons you listed.

[Steel21]

From an American Jewish perspective how would you answer this question. Please, this is not a flame, just honest question.

How would you feel if the U.S entirely abandon all aid to Israel, leaving only private contribution to proceed?

Basically, the logic is: if some people feels so strongly about a casue then they can pull it out of their own pockets and not entangle us in the unending mid-east complexity. The word friendship is a falsehood when it comes to international policy, it simply does not exist.

[StarvingStudent47]

From an American Jewish perspective how would you answer this question. Please, this is not a flame, just honest question.

How would you feel if the U.S entirely abandon all aid to Israel, leaving only private contribution to proceed?

Basically, the logic is: if some people feels so strongly about a casue then they can pull it out of their own pockets and not entangle us in the unending mid-east complexity. The word friendship is a falsehood when it comes to international policy, it simply does not exist.

Let me answer your question with a question of my own: how would you feel if, in 1943, we cut all aid to Britain and the Soviet Union? After all, Hitler was in Europe, not North America. Would you be offended by "leaving our allies in the dust"? Would be angered the the short-sightedness of isolationism? I would.

[Steel21]

:D I think the solution is to have Shaolin Monks act as peace keeper and arbitors. just so everyone feels they are been treated fairly. Just kidding. :bash:

[mobster]

Lemme tell you sumphtin',
I work with alot of jews and I love 'em all. It won't mean jack ca-ca to me in the election though, that's when the gloves come off and everyone voices their opinion. That's what America is all about baby, even the Dems understand that. I say **** it, whoever wins wins and we (or at least I will) will back up the Prez either way, but if it is Kerry I might want to buy him a spine.

[big80a2]

hahah seems that I met the other 25% of jewish americans :roll:

what ever I would like to see this poll under muslim americans...

[UoUo]

I just do not believe that Israel will be safer under John Kerry although he claims it will be. Kerry wants the Jewish American vote, he knowing Bush's support of Israel might have caused some Jews to vote republican, but we will find out in a couple of months.

Just because someone is jewish doesn't mean he has anything to do with israel. :roll:


About 90% of them do have..the other 10% can go **** them self.

[aartamen]

The jews in in the US vote predominantly Democrat. It does not even matter who the personalities are. Within bounds of normalcy, that is. It's just the way of life. NJ is going to be a Democrat state, so will be NY and CA. That's where the majority of jews live. Even if they did not vote Democrat, it'd still not mattered given the system we have. They are a very small minority.

[Mark_Aspen]

If it was one thing I learned in 6 years of US education before returning home, its American Jews vote their values and issues just like the bulk of Americans do. They aren't so much a monolithic vote because they're Jewish, but rather because of the immigrant ethos that prevailed when their great grandparents and grandparents came over; family, education, mobility (social and economic.) Because by and large they, like many other immigrant groups, were shut out of the mainstream for awhile, either because of language or outright bigotry, they set up their own institutions (schooling, teaching hospitals, camps, sport's groups, etc.) It was under progressive and Democratic politicians that Jews, Italians and the Irish were able to join the urban mainstream. Unionism was a Democratic cause 80 years ago.

At least among a large portion of the Jewish population, the values of the Democratic party, with all its warts - Jesse Jackson, southern klansman, etc., reflected the largely urban reality of Jews in America. It also goes to show that they aren't one issue voters, meaning Israel. While Israel is important to American Jews, the deviance between the 2 parties on Israel isn't significant enough for most Jewish voters o swing them from whihever party they identify with today.

P.S. It was my parent's job's for 8 years to study the American electorate. I absorbed a lot.

[alexbmn]

well duh. I'll be one of the few who wont vote for Kerry. And regarding American aid well on one hand it would untie Israel's hands, but on the other hand the military aid is what Israel really does need.

[Milkman]

There are Lies, damn lies, and statistics.


This doesn't prove ****, and I thought jews would support bush since he seems to be helping out israel.

[Mark_Aspen]

And that's the false assumption. Israel is only one component of what influences the Jewish vote. Especially if the varience in Mid-East policy between the two candidates or parties is insignificant - which it is today. Now if the two primary candidates were Bush and Nader, guess where that much more of the Jewish vote would go?

Break it down further, and you'll find that among the non-Orthodox, younger population, Israel is much less a factor in electoral decisions than social and economic policy. The non-Orthodox are just that much more secular than their parents, and their only memories are of an Israel that has a higher GDP than Ireland, New Zealand and Singapore; produces more electricity than Denmark, Singapore and Hong Kong, and of course has the world's whatever 5th or 6th largest Air Force. That has none of the concern level that faced their parents who remember the Holocaust and remember when Nasser's boasts about throwing people into the sea had a ring of truth.

[Steel21]

From an American Jewish perspective how would you answer this question. Please, this is not a flame, just honest question.

How would you feel if the U.S entirely abandon all aid to Israel, leaving only private contribution to proceed?

Basically, the logic is: if some people feels so strongly about a casue then they can pull it out of their own pockets and not entangle us in the unending mid-east complexity. The word friendship is a falsehood when it comes to international policy, it simply does not exist.

Let me answer your question with a question of my own: how would you feel if, in 1943, we cut all aid to Britain and the Soviet Union? After all, Hitler was in Europe, not North America. Would you be offended by "leaving our allies in the dust"? Would be angered the the short-sightedness of isolationism? I would.

Ummm, the Brits were in the same boat with us as to survival. As in they share the same global trade interests. And they demise could mean our own, since that means we would have to trade with a world that is pre-dominantly fascist. The Russians were a devious lot, but whatever aid we rendered were not that significant as the Russians had enough resourse to rebound regardlessly. However, it could also be argued that Nazis were to fall soner or later, since all foreign invasion cannot last indefinitly.

Israel and USA are not in the same boat. If Israel fell, the Palestinians would not be invading Long Island. No Arab U-boats are marauding our coastal waters. In fact if Israel were to turn into a Arab state, (since the Arabs will be in the majority soon), US would not be significantly affected.

But there is still private contributions. So if you felt strongly about it, join the IDF and fight it yourself or send you entire retirement fund to the IDF procurement fund.

So no to answer you question, Isael, Britain and USSR are not in the same ballpark, they arent even in the same game.

Tha been said, what happened in the holocaust was an outrage. But the human race never really faught wars based upon outrage.

You may think its fallacy but....in a marco-historical sense, suffering is inevitable in history. In every period in history, those that lived at their respective periods thought they were living at the forefront of technological advancement. And if said theory of foreign intervention and righteousness hold truth, and that justice always prevails... then who stoppped the moguls, the conquistadors, the huns, the turks, the viking???????

Of course we can also see some failures in foreign intervention, like WWI. Stop agression, sure.....

What im implying is that, history like time cares not between right and wrong, its a path that leads nowhere foreve and ever...... what seems right today wil be proven wrong years later, what seems wrong will be proven right later.

[UoUo]

Man you seem to forget that Israel hols nukes..and i am sure the USA don't want them to come into arab hands....

And a war in Israel will strongly higer the oil prices in the world.

[hood]

C'mon people, there's a political section now. please make sure to put this stuff in there from now on.

[Steel21]

In terms of principle, there is no real reason why Arabs cant have nukes. There is no reaon why this is any more dangerous than a possible extreme jewish govnt with nukes.

What Im saying is not a violent overtaking of the Israel by arabs, but a democratic takeover via votes.

The fact is sooner or later, everyone will have nukes. We will have to live with it.

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

This threat is gay and pointless anyhow.

[mobster]

[TotalFark]

Senator Kerry Voted Against B-1 Bomber. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against B-2 Stealth Bomber. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against F-14. (H. R. 5803, CQ Vote #319: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against F-15. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against F-16. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against AV-8B Harrier Vertical Takeoff And Landing Jet Fighters. (H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against AH-64 Apache Helicopters. (H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against Patriot Missiles. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against Aegis Air Defense Cruiser. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against Trident Missile System For U.S. Submarines. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against M-1 Abrams Tanks. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against Bradley Fighting Vehicle. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against Tomahawk Cruise Missile. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

and here I thought being Commander in Chief was to support the US Milita

[Secret Squirrel]

[TotalFark]

Senator Kerry Voted Against B-1 Bomber. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against B-2 Stealth Bomber. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against F-14. (H. R. 5803, CQ Vote #319: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against F-15. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against F-16. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against AV-8B Harrier Vertical Takeoff And Landing Jet Fighters. (H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against AH-64 Apache Helicopters. (H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against Patriot Missiles. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against Aegis Air Defense Cruiser. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against Trident Missile System For U.S. Submarines. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against M-1 Abrams Tanks. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against Bradley Fighting Vehicle. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

Senator Kerry Voted Against Tomahawk Cruise Missile. (S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

and here I thought being Commander in Chief was to support the US Milita

Oh poor ignorant mobster.

Regarding the B-2 and MX missiles, you might find this interesting (though it's pretty much common knowledge for many) reading --> Click me woot (http://www.c-span.org/executive/transcript.asp?cat=current_event&code=bush_admin&year=1992). Of course not even you should be dumb enough to list specifics when they're encompassed in entire bills along with a lot of other things (especially when those bills propose certain things but lack the money to fund these things). And of course in your obvious infinite wisdom, you know that starting in 1997 Kerry voted for every regular Department of Defense appropriations bill and for every authorization bill as well. If you dont understand politics, which you've shown repeatedly that you dont, then maybe you should stop embarassing yourself. ;) Just for my own curiousity, do you wear velcro shoes or does someone tie your laces for you? :lol:

[Sayeret]

I've never really understood why Jews are more often Democrats than Republicans. I know some people who are Jewish who are more left wing with domestic policies and more conservative on issues such as Iraq, Israel, and the war on terrorism.

[Sayeret]

From an American Jewish perspective how would you answer this question. Please, this is not a flame, just honest question.

How would you feel if the U.S entirely abandon all aid to Israel, leaving only private contribution to proceed?

Basically, the logic is: if some people feels so strongly about a casue then they can pull it out of their own pockets and not entangle us in the unending mid-east complexity. The word friendship is a falsehood when it comes to international policy, it simply does not exist.

Why should the US abandon its only true ally in the Middle East and the one of its biggest allies. Everyone talks about how much weapons and money the US gives to Israel but not many people talk about how many weapons and intelligence Israel gives to the US. For example even the weapon on S'13's avatar was a weapon Israel sold to the US. The US used those weapons in Afghanistan. Along with that Israel has even trained some American soldiers in urban combat.

[Steel21]

Alliance in international relations are matter of convenience

There is no such hting as "friendship" in international relations. Nations bind together for mutual benefit. It is then packaged as friendship to the masses.

As for intel, throughout the cold war, the NATO allies spied as much on each ther as on the USSR. If you havent read the eadline lately, there was another Israeli agent netted for passing info to Israel.

Need i also remind you that the Israelis have also aided the Chinese, a very potential global competitor, in their fighter and missile development.

If I remember correctly, was it Truman who criticized the Jews in his memoir as "Dont care who they scerw over to get what they want".

As for terrorism, wasnt the Irgun a terrorist group at one time? Yes, the Jewish terrorists killed over 240 people at the palestine hotel with a bomb. They also killed alot fo British soldiers....

Why should our common tax dollars go sponsor someone elses loyalty? Im sure there are Serbian Americans that wants more aid to Serbs, Kenyan Americans that wants more aid for Kenya.......

I say, if they care so much, they should just ddo it themselves. If you believe the cause, then join the IDF, or donate your IRA account. And this goes for all nations around the world. I owe the Nigerians, Philipinos, Israelis, Russians, Koreans............. NOTHING!

And to those starving people everywhere, i say "Oop, Better luck next time!" :lol:

If you cant stop all suffering, everywhere, past and present, then what does a bit here and there do? Just be glad you arent part of it.

Why is that unreasonable?[/b]

[S'13]

For example even the weapon on S'13's avatar was a weapon Israel sold to the US. The US used those weapons in Afghanistan.

You mean this? :)

http://www.airforce-technology.com/contractor_images/rafael/popeye3.jpg

Popeye is RAFAEL's primary standoff capable missile and offers effective precision attack capability against high value land and maritime targets. Effective against bunkers, missile sites and other high-value targets, Popeye uses multiple guidance modes, either imaging infrared or TV, in the terminal mode, to provide precision attack and destruction of well protected targets. Popeye is operational on F-4, F-15, B-52 and F-111s with several air forces, including Israel's air force, USAF and the Royal Australian Air Force, where it is designated "Have Nap".

Precise strike capability has become critical for modern air warfare. RAFAEL's wide variety of sophisticated solutions serves to enhance the operational capabilities of aircraft with highly accurate guided standoff systems including the Popeye, Popeye Lite (Have Lite) missiles. Popeye is operational with the Israeli Air Force, as well as other advanced air forces feature RAFAEL's air-to-surface missiles in their arsenals.

Main Features
Standoff ranges - effective against high value land and maritime targets
Versatile and cost-effective
Pinpoint accuracy, lethal efficiency
Day, night and adverse weather operation
Penetration capability
Battle Damage Assessment (BDA) capability
Variety of trajectories to meet weather and threat conditions

Turkey initially bought 50 Popeye I missiles for its fleet of F-4s being upgraded at Israel Aircraft Industries. At least 40 Popeye I missiles were delivered to Turkey in 1997 with a second batch of 60 shipped in 1998.

The Popeye II missiles were expected to be delivered beginning in 2000. The overall Popeye-I and Popeye-II missiles program with Turkey was valued at some $500 million.

In 1988, Popeye was selected by the USAF for the Have Nap program to improve the non-nuclear capabilities of the B-52G/H. The Air Force designated the missile as AGM-142A and assigned the name Raptor . However, the latter had to be dropped after the same name had been selected for the F-22 (now F/A-22) Advanced Technology Fighter, and the AGM-142 is now generally known by the program name Have Nap . The Have Nap became operational with the USAF in 1992. The missile is powered by a solid-fuel rocket motor in the WPU-14/B propulsion section. Its 340 kg (750 lb) blast-fragmentation warhead is triggered by a tail-mounted FMU-124C/B impact fuze. Accuracy is quoted to be around 3 m (10 ft) CEP. Unarmed training versions include the ATM-142A , the captive-carry CATM-142A and the DATM-142A for ground handling training.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/popeye/Popeye.html

[StarvingStudent47]

If I remember correctly, was it Truman who criticized the Jews in his memoir as "Dont care who they scerw over to get what they want".


Right, we should base our modern foreign policy around the bigoted rantings of a long-dead politician. That's right, he said JEWS, not Israeli. He didn't like any Jews whatsoever, regardless of their citizenship, political beliefs, or anything. What's your point?

President Andrew Johnson didn't like Blacks, and President Andrew Jackson didn't like Native Americans. Should we defer to their bigotries as well? :roll: