Al Sadr refuses to meet with iraqi peace delegation

[Luxembourger]

just in on Cnn

[GrantT]

This clearly shows that Sadr is not interested in the safety of the people of Najaf nor the future of Iraq and its growing democracy, he's a thorn in the side of the Iraqi's and needs to be dealt with.

[Argyll]

Sadr has "delousions of gandeur",he's no more than a thug ,who is abusing his religion,towards his own gains,the man need's a "full metal jacket" to the forehead

[Liquid]

Or the fact that he will not negotiate while Najaf is shelled by US aircrafts.He still keeps room for a peaceful resolve he even welcomed an envoy for Vatican to discuss.

He has a difrent agenda then sucking up and play into the US occupation biding.Al-Sadr already refused a top post in the government citing that he will not join the political scene while US troops are in the country.
I am more curious to see where the Iraqi loyalti lies with.I have yet to see one demnonstration against Al-Sadr in any city in Iraq but in contrast there have been in more then a dozen cities against Allawi.4 or 5 of his party head quorters have been torched.This is what you get when you put an ex CIA operative who`s suport has in % is no more then a one digit number.

[Argyll]

Or the fact that he will not negotiate while Najaf is shelled by US aircrafts.He still keeps room for a peaceful resolve he even welcomed an envoy for Vatican to discuss.

He has a difrent agenda then sucking up and play into the US occupation biding.Al-Sadr already refused a top post in the government citing that he will not join the political scene while US troops are in the country.
I am more curious to see where the Iraqi loyalti lies with.I have yet to see one demnonstration against Al-Sadr in any city in Iraq but in contrast there have been in more then a dozen cities against Allawi.4 or 5 of his party head quorters have been torched.This is what you get when you put an ex CIA operative who`s suport has in % is no more then a one digit number.

The mayor of Najaf has asked Sadr and his band of thugs to leave on many an occasion,the Grand Ayatollah ,Sistani himself has asked Sadr to leave Najaf,and to stop using the Shrine as a place of war,just because you don't hear it or read about it doesn't mean the people agree with him,Sadr is clinging onto a false power,last month he told the Mehdi Army the fight against the American's was over and that they were victorious,and to return to their homes........they did not listen,they stayed put and continued to use the shrine as a base of Operations against the Coalition,because they have nothing much else to do,no job's no prospects...zero....so fighting is a way of life for most of them,shame they didn't have the bottle to stand upto the coalition during the ground offensive.
They are losing dozens KIA daily,estimates put their Cas rate at 500+ ,just in this last 30 days.....doesn't sound much like success to me,Sadr will probably blow the shrine himself ,and blame the Americans.just to achieve his goal,I know if I was in his position I would.

[Liquid]

Sadr has "delousions of gandeur",he's no more than a thug ,who is abusing his religion,towards his own gains,the man need's a "full metal jacket" to the forehead

Please spare us this peanut minded ravings.Why is he a thug-check a dictionary before blindly copying the all to to famous US military officials characterisations.I guess he is anti-Iraqi too,right :roll:

Abusing his religion?I see,any cleric who does not comply to the US will and their apointed Iraqi government is abusing his religion.

Towards his own gainst?How by refusing a top post in the government,puting his own life at stake for a free Iraq.

Al-Sadr may not be the greatest man in the universe,he doesn`t come close to the authority Ali Al Sistani evoches but the moronic accusations by some people against him startle me.

[American Patriot]

I'll drink a case when Sadr is room temperature.

[Liquid]

The mayor of Najaf has asked Sadr and his band of thugs to leave on many an occasion

Numerous countries told USA not to attack Iraq.Did Bush comply to their outcry?Of course Al-Sadr has to do comply when a representative of the US apointed Iraqi government asks him to do something :roll:


,the Grand Ayatollah ,Sistani himself has asked Sadr to leave Najaf

A blatent lie.Sistani asked both sides to stop the fighting in April.They even met after and had a very friendly conversation.Please check your facts before spewing this skewed facts.


because they have nothing much else to do,no job's no prospects...zero

Your skewed perspective baffles me.You do mean they are actually refusing to join the Iraqi security forces,which offers a salary of 300 dollars a month don`t you?Are this enough future prospects for you?


so fighting is a way of life for most of them,shame they didn't have the bottle to stand upto the coalition during the ground offensive.

A shame they welcomed US forces as liberators from Saddam`s regime opression and hoped for a better chance this time.Growing weary every day by US forces constant failures to acheive their promises,to win "hearts and minds" they finally decided to start an armed resistance after almost an year of waiting.If anything you can blame them for their naivity hoping US forces would bring them a better future then Saddam`s tormention.


They are losing dozens KIA daily,estimates put their Cas rate at 500+ ,just in this last 30 days.....doesn't sound much like success to me

In an admirable way.Fighting face to face with the US forces.No suicide bombings or other dirty tactics.What do you expect they are fighting a trained force that has air suport,APCs,Tanks with 30 years old weaponry.

I also recomand you some hefty history lessons.A good start would be from how the Russian forces got constantly sloughtered all the way to Berlin in World War 2 suffering 100 times more casualties then the German wermarcht all the way to Vietnam and how did Ho Chi Min achieved all his goals after his army suffered more then a million losses as oposed to US 65.000 deaths.If succes would be mesured by kill ratio history would be rewritten right now most likely in German from where I live in.


Sadr will probably blow the shrine himself ,and blame the Americans.just to achieve his goal

Like he did the last time he uprised?


I know if I was in his position I would.

You mean if you were a chatolic you would blow the Vatican up just so you could blame the enemy for it.Thank God you aren`t in his position,I also recomand you to get some medical attentinon with all due seriosity.

[Argyll]

Sadr has "delousions of gandeur",he's no more than a thug ,who is abusing his religion,towards his own gains,the man need's a "full metal jacket" to the forehead

Please spare us this peanut minded ravings.Why is he a thug-check a dictionary before blindly copying the all to to famous US military officials characterisations.I guess he is anti-Iraqi too,right :roll:

Oh so you're familiar with the historyof Muqtada Sadr then.......seems I,along with thousands of other's in Iraq were fed a lot of false Intel then,perhaps you could give us the scoop of what it's like from 1st hand experience?Remeber he does not represent the Sunni's or the Kurds,and again he does not represent the entire Shia population

Abusing his religion?I see,any cleric who does not comply to the US will and their apointed Iraqi government is abusing his religion.

Hello,the guy was responsible for the murder of another cleric,to raise his own profile,he's also going against the wishes of the Grand Ayatollah into the bargain,if that's not abuse ,then what is?His actions are NOT what the vast majority of Shia's want either

Towards his own gainst?How by refusing a top post in the government,puting his own life at stake for a free Iraq.

Sadr wants to rule Iraq....his way,or no way,do you see the other Shia clerics following his path?

Al-Sadr may not be the greatest man in the universe,he doesn`t come close to the authority Ali Al Sistani evoches but the moronic accusations by some people against him startle me.

Who's accusations would these be,let me guess,you are in a far better position to be a spokesperson for Sadr,you are privy to all the classified information on him and the Mehdi Army,I along with others in Iraq get to read Int reports on a daily basis,sure we don't get to see the "juicy stuff",but we get to see the bigger picture on Sadr,and it's not a pretty one

No matter where you are in the world you have a group of individuals who will do their utmost to "rock the boat against the establishment",Sadr is that type of person,he has the potential to become a very influential figure in the new Iraq,but he refuses to disband the Mehdi Army,would he act any different if the people of Iraq chose the Government?Remember this is only an Interim Government,you cannot build a house without laying a flagstone.He was given the chance,and will probably be given it again to sit on the Government,if he's not remotely interested then he does not have the Interests of Iraq at heart

[He219]

Liquid, i see your interpretation of a 'Free Iraq' as one with Moqtada's version of Shia radicalism in lieu of one with US/Coalition sponsored representative democracy.

If we are not in agreement, how do you see Moqtada's 'Free Iraq'; one without US influence regardless of the type of governance?

[Argyll]

The mayor of Najaf has asked Sadr and his band of thugs to leave on many an occasion

Numerous countries told USA not to attack Iraq.Did Bush comply to their outcry?Of course Al-Sadr has to do comply when a representative of the US apointed Iraqi government asks him to do something :roll:

No but violence solves nothing,we're not debating about the basis of the war,we're talking about Sadr and the Mehdi army,he had the chance to sit with that very appointed government,where he could have tried dialogue instead of violence.Why did he not even give it a try?Seeing as you seem to know what makes Sadr tick enlighten us all


,the Grand Ayatollah ,Sistani himself has asked Sadr to leave Najaf

A blatent lie.Sistani asked both sides to stop the fighting in April.They even met after and had a very friendly conversation.Please check your facts before spewing this skewed facts.

Can you prove 100% that Sistani did not tell Sadr to stop using the Shrines,and told to leave Najaf.....because when I was there in April,I'm pretty certain this was the case,same again during June/ July the Mehdi Army were told to return home to Sadr city,where most of them come from,now I cannot prove 100% this happened,but to say it was a blatant lie without backing this up with facts is also a lie


because they have nothing much else to do,no job's no prospects...zero

Your skewed perspective baffles me.You do mean they are actually refusing to join the Iraqi security forces,which offers a salary of 300 dollars a month don`t you?Are this enough future prospects for you?


Have you ever been to Sadr city?You think the only jobs in Iraq are in the Security Forces,what about carpenters,stonemason's,factory workers,in April there was a Security Force of Iraqi's from Sadr city itself who were sent to try and install peace,a lot of them deserted and joined the Mehdi Army,pick a number of reasons for this,fear of reprisals against their families would be a good place to start.
Sadr city is a slum city,but the people there have to want to help themselves,to make it a better place,there are projects ongoing there,but then again you knew this right?


so fighting is a way of life for most of them,shame they didn't have the bottle to stand upto the coalition during the ground offensive.

A shame they welcomed US forces as liberators from Saddam`s regime opression and hoped for a better chance this time.Growing weary every day by US forces constant failures to acheive their promises,to win "hearts and minds" they finally decided to start an armed resistance after almost an year of waiting.If anything you can blame them for their naivity hoping US forces would bring them a better future then Saddam`s tormention.

I'll give you this one,it has taken too long,and there are many here who aknowledge this,with reconstruction efforts,but there are gains daily,in making Iraq a better place,you also seem to forget that there are 3 tribal factions represented in Iraq,not just one........you can please some of the people sometimes,but you cannot please all of the people all the time,blame the Politicians for this one


They are losing dozens KIA daily,estimates put their Cas rate at 500+ ,just in this last 30 days.....doesn't sound much like success to me

In an admirable way.Fighting face to face with the US forces.No suicide bombings or other dirty tactics.What do you expect they are fighting a trained force that has air suport,APCs,Tanks with 30 years old weaponry.

Ah that old chestnut.........you think they have not killed locals,in Najaf,Baghdad and Nasiriyah?Dirty tactics........like hiding behind demonstrations full of women and children and using them as human shields?

I also recomand you some hefty history lessons.A good start would be from how the Russian forces got constantly sloughtered all the way to Berlin in World War 2 suffering 100 times more casualties then the German wermarcht all the way to Vietnam and how did Ho Chi Min achieved all his goals after his army suffered more then a million losses as oposed to US 65.000 deaths.If succes would be mesured by kill ratio history would be rewritten right now most likely in German from where I live in.

Surprise surprise,a German with an Anti American view,now there's something we didn't see very often here before :roll:


Sadr will probably blow the shrine himself ,and blame the Americans.just to achieve his goal

Like he did the last time he uprised?

Oh you didn't read or see the Amunition storage blow a small chunk out of the Mosque then when there was a fire inside?It's been hit several times by the Mehdi Army to gain outside support,happens quite often,usually around the time there's a mission to apprehand Sadr,I suggest you do some research yourself,you might actually see beyond the tree's


I know if I was in his position I would.

You mean if you were a chatolic you would blow the Vatican up just so you could blame the enemy for it.Thank God you aren`t in his position,I also recomand you to get some medical attentinon with all due seriosity.
No it means I would fight dirty,it's called psychological and unconventional warfare,you carry out an attack,and blame the other side for the damage,classical dirty warfare,he said she said,have you never blamed anyone else for your wrongdoings?,I'm curious do you have any Military background,that makes you the expert in CRW?or CQB,or anykind of warfare for that matter,I'm no expert ,but war is not about white gloves and chivalry,not in this day and age,war is dirty and unconventional,I have to go now and take my medication,it's called "who give's a fok"

[UkrainianAmerican]

Now thats some good old pwnage.
Go ARGYLL! woot

[GrantT]

No suicide bombings or other dirty tactics.

Nope just fighting in civilian clothing which, if I remember correctly, contravenes the Geneva Convention and using a holy site such as a Shrine or Cememtary as a location to launch military attacks, which also contravenes the Geneva Convention. Yes, kudos to the Mehdi Army and their "clean" fighting skills. :roll:

[Liquid]

.seems I,along with thousands of other's in Iraq were fed a lot of false Intel then,perhaps you could give us the scoop of what it's like from 1st hand experience?

Not exactly first hand experience but let`s say protests citing Allawis resignation in a dozen Iraqi cities,thousands more Iraqis arrive in Najaf to show their suport for Moqtada Al-sadr


Remeber he does not represent the Sunni's or the Kurds,and again he does not represent the entire Shia population

As oposed to Allawi?


Hello,the guy was responsible for the murder of another cleric,to raise his own profile,

Has this been prooved or more likely falls into the same category as the claim that 25 "foreigners" are in control of the Imam Ali mosque and have rigged it with explosives?


he's also going against the wishes of the Grand Ayatollah into the bargain,if that's not abuse ,then what is?

I see so every Iraqi most blindly follow the wishes of Sistani and are forbidden to choose their own path.I find this an extremly limited view from a person who I hope enjoys an education that promotes free minded values.


His actions are NOT what the vast majority of Shia's want either

I beg to difer.Polls show that an overwelming number of Iraqis consider US forces as occupying forces and suport the attacks against US soldiers.


Sadr wants to rule Iraq....his way,or no way,do you see the other Shia clerics following his path?

Yes a hefty number of Shia clerics suport him.This is one of the reasons why he has representatives in viertually all the major Iraqi cities.Sunni clerics have also voiced their suport towards him.

And here comes the greatest heart breaker of all.You see he already said in a public adress that he welcomes UN peacekeeping troops from every country except USA and Great Britain.So no not exactly his way or no way.


Who's accusations would these be,let me guess,you are in a far better position to be a spokesperson for Sadr,you are privy to all the classified information on him and the Mehdi Army

No I am in a position to dismiss remarks with no real basis.


along with others in Iraq get to read Int reports on a daily basis,sure we don't get to see the "juicy stuff",but we get to see the bigger picture on Sadr,and it's not a pretty one

I agree it`s not pretty that thousands of Iraqis are willing to form a human shield to protect him from US forces,it`s not pretty that a radical cleric is swarming in popularit because of his stance against the US occupation which is a common feeling for so many Iraqis but this is the reality.If US forces would have not did such a miserable job in Iraq Al-Sadr would not be a trouble to begin with and there wouldn`t have been an uprising suported by shias who welcomed US forces enthusiasticly as their liberators.


No matter where you are in the world you have a group of individuals who will do their utmost to "rock the boat against the establishment"

Again I find myself agreeing wiht you, George W Bush Jr is a living example of that type of persons.


he has the potential to become a very influential figure in the new Iraq,but he refuses to disband the Mehdi Army,would he act any different if the people of Iraq chose the Government

Most likely the answer is yes.You see here in my country we act on the principle of innocent until prooven guilty.As oposed to many other people here,I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt.And on top of all if the Iraqi people chose the government there wouldn`t be any US forces in Iraq as if it would be representative for Iraqis,their will as polls show is to get rid of US forces.



He was given the chance,and will probably be given it again to sit on the Government,if he's not remotely interested then he does not have the Interests of Iraq at heart

You mean the intrest of Allawi and USA?And that is what you are forgeting the 200K US forces in Iraq,the unwanted force.The Iraqis overwlmingly hate them,heck they even suport their deaths how is the Iraqi government acting by not listening to their wish of geting rid of them?

If the government is illegitimate he has no obligation to join it does he now?Or just because the US wham bam raised the sovereign card at stake and apointed a new government means that Sadr has an obligation to endorse even though it`s not representative for the Iraqis.
--

Just one part before I go as the time zone is pressing me alot right now."

"If succes would be mesured by kill ratio history would be rewritten right now MOST LIKELY in German from where I live in.

It`s so easy to raise the anti-American card in every debate when someone doesn`t agree with you but so hard to justify it.I am not German as your wishful thinking sugested.I honestly consider that my attitude towards the Iraq war and The Bush Administration has nothing to do with the one towards the American poupulation.I do hope you are mature enough to understand the reasons for this,so think better before raising the "anti-American card" would you now?

[Laworkerbee]

Liquid

try shuting your piehole and listening for once.

You think your sources of information can even come close to Argyll, a man "in country" who see's whats happening first hand and who gets intel from the field.

Hell he is one of the reasons besides HE-219's outstanding work that keeps me coming back for more.

[Uncle Sam]

And this suprises anyone?? He want's to destroy his own country for his own purposes.

[One?]

Thats BS. A sadr spokesperson announced a couple hours ago that they did not refuse, but in fact they are willing to negotiate with them. They are willing to change the mahdi militia into an unarmed political party.

This is the second time alawi pulls out of the talks.

[He219]

A shame they welcomed US forces as liberators from Saddam`s regime opression and hoped for a better chance this time.Growing weary every day by US forces constant failures to acheive their promises,to win "hearts and minds" they finally decided to start an armed resistance after almost an year of waiting.If anything you can blame them for their naivity hoping US forces would bring them a better future then Saddam`s tormention.
:cantbeli: Please expand on your references to 'promises'.

Do you condone armed resistance because it will bring them a better future after 'waiting' one year for a better future and that Saddam tormented them less than what they are experiencing right now?

btw, you never responded to my previous post. I hope it's not too late for you in A'dam right now.


Liquid, i see your interpretation of a 'Free Iraq' as one with Moqtada's version of Shia radicalism in lieu of one with US/Coalition sponsored representative democracy.

If we are not in agreement, how do you see Moqtada's 'Free Iraq'; one without US influence regardless of the type of governance?

[He219]

Thats BS. They are willing to change the mahdi militia into an unarmed political party.

This is the second time alawi pulls out of the talks.

Back at you:



The delegation entered the huge shrine compound at around 0700 (1500 GMT)

Al-Sadr expressed readiness to negotiate turning his group into a political organisation, but rejected the call for it to lay down arms, which he described as being for personal use, al-Shaibani said.

There were unconfirmed attacks that the talks with the Baghdad delegation would be rescheduled.

Najaf governor Adnan al-Zirqi said he doubted the reasons given for the delay in the talks, but could not provide any evidence to support his claim.


1. If the delegation entered the shrine and never got to see Moqtada, how could 'alawi have pulled out of the talks', as you write. How could that not mean that Sadr did meet with the delegation?

2. According to Aljazeera, Moqtada is intent on maintaining a personal militia for 'presonal use'.

3. Why does the Najaf governor have to cite evidence of why Moqtada didn't meet with the delegation that arrived inside the Imam Ali mosqe at 1500 GMT?

4. What the heck does Aljazeera mean with "unconfirmed attacks(?) that talks would be rescheduled"? Meet with the delegation that travels the distance or don't. Thus far Moqtada has not met with them.

[Argyll]

I had a cracking reply to liquids last post,but the freekin page expired and I lost the lot and I canny be arsed typing it all oot again.

Sometimes you gotta make deals with the devil

aljazeera.net wrote:

The delegation entered the huge shrine compound at around 0700 (1500 GMT)

What a crock of ****e 0700 is not 1500 GMT for starters,Iraq is 3 hours ahead of GMT 0700 is like 0400 GMT

Al-Sadr expressed readiness to negotiate turning his group into a political organisation, but rejected the call for it to lay down arms, which he described as being for personal use, al-Shaibani said.

There were unconfirmed attacks that the talks with the Baghdad delegation would be rescheduled.

Najaf governor Adnan al-Zirqi said he doubted the reasons given for the delay in the talks, but could not provide any evidence to support his claim.

[Red]

I had a cracking reply to liquids last post,but the freekin page expired and I lost the lot and I canny be arsed typing it all oot again.

Sometimes you gotta make deals with the devil
hahahaha,don't even bother answering the guy.

[He219]

Thats BS. A sadr spokesperson announced a couple hours ago that they did not refuse, but in fact they are willing to negotiate with them. They are willing to change the mahdi militia into an unarmed political party.

This is the second time alawi pulls out of the talks.

One, given your post and review of the Aljizeera article - you are the one who is full of it.

And you expect us to believe your version vs. this (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040817/wl_nm/iraq_dc_263) one?

The Aljazeera artice is a rebuttal given the ******* article that Moqtada failed to appear with the delegation braving the fighting and visiting inside the Imam Ali Mosque itself.

******* writes:

The delegation had met Sadr's top aides and waited for the young cleric for three hours at the city's holiest shrine, the Imam Ali Mosque, where many of Sadr's militiamen are holed up.

Sadr's top aide Sheikh Ali Smeisim, who met with the delegation, tried to soften the impact of Sadr's failure to show up.

"What we heard (from the delegation) contains positive indications. We are willing to discuss them," he said. He had told the delegation that Sadr was at a "secret location" and would come if the U.S. forces eased its noose around the shrines.

While Aljazeera responds:

Al-Sadr and aides are at present inside Najaf's Imam Ali shrine

Ahmad Al-Shibani told Aljazeera that media reports that al-Sadr had refused to meet with the Iraqi National Conference delegation were false and fabricated.


Seems easy enough to see the BS from fact, not to mention that Aljazeera can't even get the time right!
:D

[Locked N Loaded]

LIQUID
I thought I have read and see in all, but you take the cake. I bet you have a picture of Sad'r hanging on the wall next to your mom's computer!


And here comes the greatest heart breaker of all.You see he already said in a public adress that he welcomes UN peacekeeping troops from every country except USA and Great Britain.So no not exactly his way or no way.

Proof that it's his way or the highway! What makes him think he can pick and choose. The U.S. and the U.K. are the ones defending themselves from Sad'rs Mehdi Army, why would we send in peacekeepers? Both countries are in theatre now? And the UN has already voted to help, but as a training force only, long before Sad'rs cries for help.
I could go on all night, you have typed enough Blah, Blah, Blah, to keep anyone busy for hours. But I respect and agree with Argyll and he has pretty much proved you are just a JOKE. Very much anti-American and usually answers a question with the same. You have disagreed with everyone except yourself and Sad'r. And anyone who agree's with a "madman" who uses the holiest of all shrines in a very holy City as a safehouse, to hide as a coward, store munitions and use women and children as human shields is a JOKE , and will not be taken seriously! I've see Sadr City myself and yes, it's a crap hole, but to say there "are no jobs', and use that as an excuse to do what this "madman" has done so far shows what his objective is. It's not to work and try to do whats best for the Iraqi people, he's been offered that chance. It's to try and create an uprising to such a degree that the U.S. and Coalition Forces pack it up and pull out! Well, don't hold your breath, the only way that will happen is if we are asked to leave, Sad'r does not have the power or the Army to force us out. So, keep telling yourself that Sad'r is this great and mighty leader, because even you know deep inside he's nothing but a terrorist and a murderer who will end up on the short end of the stick! Roger that? I'm out!...... :cantbeli:

L n L

[jd123]

The sadr guy is playing the patriotism card, he hopes he'll be the leader of Iraq, and he's just a pawn of Iran. I'm sure his men get training from Iranian during the 1st cease fire. why don't we just use a small tactical neutron bomb and get rid of all the nuts. call me crazy, but any negoiation now will lead to more fighting later on.

[Locked N Loaded]

My last post in this thread! The marines are ready to go get some. This has come down to all politics and it's going to cause many lives on both sides due a prolonged cease-fire, for the 3rd time. Sad'r is NOT going to negotiate in good faith, this is a very important time in this conflict. It's time to **** or get off the pot!... :bash: I'm out!

L n L

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

Sadr has "delousions of gandeur",he's no more than a thug ,who is abusing his religion,towards his own gains,the man need's a "full metal jacket" to the forehead

Please spare us this peanut minded ravings.Why is he a thug-check a dictionary before blindly copying the all to to famous US military officials characterisations.I guess he is anti-Iraqi too,right :roll:

Abusing his religion?I see,any cleric who does not comply to the US will and their apointed Iraqi government is abusing his religion.
.

Speaking of peanut minded ravings, Liquid. He is not abusing his religion because he does not agree with the US, nor the Iraqi government. He is using one of the most sacred mosques as a damn military HQ and weapons cache. That seems to me to be pretty good grounds for abusing religion.. :bash:

I agree LNL, these cease fires are sick. They need to deal with this problem once and for all. The more cease fires he gets, the more he is going to regroup and more lives will be lost.

[One?]

He219

I got my info from TV not from an article. Sorry if you misunderstood.


Al sadr spokesperson denyed that they did not want to meet with the delegation. The governor of najaf said that there were security reasons why the delegation didn't take place.

[SeanAshi]

Will Ayatollah Sistani be replaced by al-Sadr?

[MEGR]

It would be more productive for Sadr and his cronies to put down the guns and be every-day members of society. They were given amnesty, but refused to stop attacks against US troops. It's fine to disagree with the new govt. Hell you see it a bunch over here in the states. People over here that have a hatred for Bush can express it (and they do) but never with gun battles, bombs, or mortar rounds.

[One?]

Will Ayatollah Sistani be replaced by al-Sadr?

No. Because sadr is not an ayatollah, and he can't issue fatwas.

Sistani has a school of thought, so does al-sadrs father/grandfather. There are 4 other ayatollahs in iraq who are followed other than sistani...

[He219]

He219

I got my info from TV not from an article. Sorry if you misunderstood.


Al sadr spokesperson denyed that they did not want to meet with the delegation. The governor of najaf said that there were security reasons why the delegation didn't take place.

I didn't misunderstand. I know what you wrote and an Aljazeera report not only disproved your assertions, but showed that the delegation waited on Moqtada and also elaborated that Moqtada is now willing to meet the delegation on his terms - citing constant attack by US-led 'occupation' forces.

The delegation went to the Imam Ali Mosqu and wated:
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040818/capt.lon10108180042.iraq_lon101.jpg

Hussein al-Sadr the head of a delegation of members of the Iraqi National Conference, walks towards the Shrine of Imam Ali to meet with clerics loyal to the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, as crowds chant is support of Muqtada, in Najaf, Iraq (news - web sites), Tuesday Aug. 17, 2004
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040818/capt.lon10208180113.iraq_lon102.jpg

Hussein al-Sadr the head of a delegation of members of the Iraqi National Conference, walks towards the Shrine of Imam Ali to meet with clerics loyal to the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr in Najaf, IraqTuesday Aug. 17, 2004

NAJAF, IRAQ - AUGUST 17: A delegation of members of the Iraqi National Conference, led by Hussein al-Sadr (2nd-R), meets (http://cache.*****images.com/comp/51183806.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1E54E390BE8FBF8C207757C85AE85A779B) with clerics loyal to the radical Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr in the shrine of Imam Ali August 17, 2004 in Najaf, Iraq. The delegation went to Najaf to deliver a message from the conference members in Baghdad to Moqtada, but failed to meet him while clashes continue in the area.

NAJAF, IRAQ - AUGUST 17: An unidentified senior Shiite cleric of the Moqtada al-Sadr movement walks back (http://cache.*****images.com/comp/51183807.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1E23030463893DBD9B7757C85AE85A779B) with members of the Iraqi National Conference who are led by Hussein al-Sadr August 17, 2004 in Najaf, Iraq. The delegation went to Najaf to deliver a message from the conference members in Baghdad to Moqtada, but failed to meet him

The 'delegation' was led by Sadr's own relative and they waited for three hours within the mosque. The meeting with Moqtada didn't take place, not for a lack of patience.

Explain that.


Thats BS. A sadr spokesperson announced a couple hours ago that they did not refuse, but in fact they are willing to negotiate with them. They are willing to change the mahdi militia into an unarmed political party.

This is the second time alawi pulls out of the talks.
:roll:

The point is not that Moqtada is refusing to negotiate now, but that he refused to meet with the delegation of Iraqi political and religious leaders (who want him to call off his uprising in the holy city of Najaf and other areas) as they waited on him - today.

1. Moqtada refused on grounds that "attack by US-led occupation forces and the security atmosphere did not facilitate a meeting with Muqtada al-Sadr", yet Aljazeera writes that Moqtada is presently within the mosqe.

2. Al-Sadr expressed readiness to negotiate turning his group into a political organisation, but rejected the call for it to lay down arms, which he described as being for personal use, al-Shaibani said

3. Alawi did not 'pull out' as the pictures clearly show.

Source (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E67F30B1-A57E-475C-B0A1-B3D2E04345BD.htm)



So how does the fact that he is willing to meet the delegation now change the 'security situation' as he kept them waiting today and when he decides to actually meet with them in the future? As if his security situation is more important than that of the Iraqi nation while his private militia attacks US and Iraqi coalition forces doing their best to establish stability and reconstruct an entire nation under democratic governance.





The choice is simple:

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Hezbollah
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Iranian backed Shia radicalism
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or

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Members of the national conference, from left to right, Sheikh Khalid al -Shamari, Dr. Midhat Adulamir al Jiburi and Dr. Midhat Abdul Nabi take part at the opening of the three-day national conference intended to bring a taste of democratic debate to a country suffering from violence, chaos and the legacy of a brutal dictatorship at the Baghdad convention center in Baghdad, Iraq Sunday Aug. 15, 2004 Delegates had high expectations for this unprecedented gathering of religious, political and civic leaders, which will help elect a 100-member national council to act as a watchdog over the interim government ahead of elections scheduled for January

[He219]

Cleric Rebuffs Iraqi Mediators; Battle in Najaf Continues (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/18/international/middleeast/18iraq.html?ex=1093406400&en=3a51afaa2b171077&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1)

Mr. Sadr blamed the fighting for his unwillingness to meet the eight delegates, saying his safety could not be assured, said his spokesman, Ahmed al-Shaibani. While Mr. Sadr stayed away, his aides met the delegation for almost three hours, as Mr. Sadr's supporters periodically chanted "Yes, yes, Moktada!" and demonstrated inside the shrine, which is sacred to Shiite Muslims.

Still, the shrine itself was peaceful and at times even relaxed during the visit, with no weapons visible.

Hussein al-Sadr, a distant cousin of Mr. Sadr who was the mission's informal leader, said afterward that he believed that the trip had been a success despite Mr. Sadr's absence. "Unfortunately the security circumstances and fighting and bombing caused that meeting to be impossible," he said. "But the Iraqi National Conference message reached to Moktada Sadr's office and all over Najaf."

Earlier, Hussein al-Sadr had said the delegation intended to bring a message, not to negotiate.