does putting a silencer/suppressor on an AR affect....

[Sharky79]

range? damage? accuracy?

Was looking at some SF images with guys having these added attachments on their M4's.

[ibstolidude]

it does increase "CGF" by atleast 48%.

[Argyll]

Is this not all dependant on the type of ammo/Suppresor used?

[ibstolidude]

"CGF" (Cool Guy Factor) is unaffected by such matters....

as Beowulf loves to joke...
"an ounce of appearance beats a pound of performance" or something like that.. :roll:

or was that "hydrate or die" - Beo?

hehe

[springwheat]

Not if you tape it to the magazine.

[Seraphim]

I would think you would use subsonic rounds...less muzzle velocity=less range and also=less damage.

I aint no ballistics expert but since the round is travelling much slower, the round would wobble in the air more.

Just some thoughts...

[BMF]

ok kids, heres the deal. the supressor you see on many an M4 nowadays are a little different from the supressors you see on MP's, pistols, etc. the M4 supressor is made so that the shooter can use his weapon indoors, in enclosed areas (caves), etc without going deaf/blind. it does NOT make the weapon "silent" by any means. it just makes it a little quieter so that the guy shooting won't go deaf if he fires inside a room. since there is no intent on being silent, these guys aren't using subsonic ammo or any of that craziness, so there is no effect save the added muzzle weight of the supressor. in theory this makes it a little harder to make long range shots when unsupported. other then that: no change.

drive on

[boattail]

Supressors are used for tatical advantage(s). Of course if you use sub-sonic loads the only real noise you will hear is the bolt actoin. Using supressors with regular loads (rounds) does a couple of different things for you,

-Muzzle flash is reduced almost to nothing
-The target (person) you are shooting at, will not be able to determine where you are shooting from unless he sees you (With supressor attachted the report of the rifle sounds like it comes from a different direction. IE. If I am shooting at you with a supressed rifle from your 12oclock, it will sound like the shot came from your 3, 6, or 9)

Yes, supressors do effect your velocities and trajectories, the bullet will move on you after about 150-200 yards (Using a supressed M4 with Ball 5.56mm/.223)

[budanski]

Exactly why I use radishes. Potato silencers tend throw off my aim.

[hood]

My guess would be, that if they're using carbines to begin with, they're probably not shooting to any serious ranges anyway, so the change in accuracy probably doesn't affect them. It was mentioned that SWAT snipers aren't shooting further than 100 yards in urban environments so it's probably even less with these guys.

[BMF]

the standard supressor out there for the M4 doesn't use enough of the propelling gases to cause any serious effects to the rounds velocity. the M4 isn't all too great at long range anyway. and that stuff about only hearing the action cycle when a weapon is supressed is pure movie bull****, dont believe it for a moment. even weapons with full size. integral supressors (MP5SD, for example) are still loud, especially indoors. the supressor simply saves the users' ears, and changes the sound around some, makes it hard to locate the user.

[GazB]

There are several sounds when a gun is fired. The action slapping back and forth in an automatic weapon is quite noisy but the two main sounds are the bang of the expanding hot gas rushing past the bullet after accelerating that bullet down the barrel, and of course the sound the bullet makes as it pushes its way through the air. If you walk forward you feel the pressure of the air as it moves aside as your body displaces it. The bullet, travelling faster than the speed of sound pushes the air in front of it aside at a speed that exceeds the speed of sound. The pressure waves turn into sound waves. When you hear a firearm fired from a distance you can often hear two noises... the boom or bang sound of the gas behind the bullet and the sharp crack of the bullet continually pushing air aside as it travels. All sound travels at the same speed, though air temperature and airpressure all effect what that speed is. (ie at ground level it might be 320m/s, while at 10km up it might only be 290m/s... in space or any other vaccuum it is 0m/s).
Because the bullet is travelling up to 3 times faster than the speed of sound if the bullet is travelling toward you then you hear the crack of the bullet and then the bang of the gas. If you hear the bang first then a crack you know it is fired away from you... of course if the bullet hits you, you might not hear anything at all... in North Africa the British troops feared the 88mm anti tank gun, but were relieved to hear the shell... that meant it didn't hit you.

Putting a suppressor on the muzzle... if professionally done should not adversely effect accuracy. Professionally done means the bullet should not in any way contact the suppressor on its way through. The addition of a barrel weight might actually slightly improve accuracy, though this is not usually its purpose.

Its true purpose is to allow the user to safely use the weapon inside without ear plugs. It also means that the muzzle flash is removed (muzzle flash is unburnt powder being blown down the barrel and burning outside the weapon... it makes noise too). The other benefit is that with only the crack of the bullet then it is harder to determine where the shot came from. Much quieter noises like the action operating and the bullet impacting the target would aide inlocating the firer, but you'd have to be close to the firer to hear the action or the target to hear the impact and you would need a very trained ear.

Using subsonic ammo for high velocity rounds like the 5.56mm NATO or 5.45 x 39mm defeats their purpose... ie they rely on their velocity for decent terminal effect, though they are available. The 5.45 x 39mm round uses an 80 grain projectile. The Subsonic AKM round would be much more effective however as it travels at a similar speed but weighs 193 grain.

I would guess with its larger case the .223 might be able to get away with a 90-95 grain subsonic round... both small calibre rounds offer .22lr velocities with roughly twice the projectile weight. (most subsonic .22lr rounds use 40 grain bullets, though I have seen a 60 grain subsonic sniper round).

[Royal]

When you hear a firearm fired from a distance you can often hear two If you hear the bang first then a crack you know it is fired away from you...

Trust me (and I'm a couple of others here will also testify) if you hear the crack and thump it DOES NOT mean the the shot is fired away from you, it just means it hasn't hit you.

[GazB]

" if you hear the crack and thump it DOES NOT mean the the shot is fired away from you, i"

Sound travels at one speed in any single environment. The bullet, travelling faster than the speed of sound, results in the sound from the bullet getting to you first if the bullet is travelling toward you. If it is travelling away from you then you hear the thump and then the crack nearly together, though the crack sound will continue longer than the thump.
(Things like buildings, tunnels, even in hilly country can distort the sound and make it very difficult to determine where the shot came from.. especially with echoing)

BTW regarding the original post:

"range? damage? accuracy? "

Range is really only effected if you are using subsonic ammo. Sometimes it doesn't make much practical difference, other times the difference is significant. ie in the case of the subsonic AKM 7.62 x 39mm round which is about 193grain as opposed to the normal 122 grain bullet the effective range is probably similar for both rounds... about 200-300m. For a round like the 7.62mm NATO or 7.62 x 54R then the range is reduced dramatically from about 1000-1200m with a machine gun for area targets, reduced down to a max of probably about 400m with subsonic ammo. The increase in weight plus the reduction in speed means that the bullet drop is a big curve... you need to estimate range to the target more accurately if you want to hit it.

Damage with supersonic ammo should remain the same with a suppressor and I have already discussed the effects of accuracy. With subsonic ammo large calibres can be as effective or sometimes even more effective, whereas small calibre rounds that rely on velocity for effect like the 5.56mmNATO and 5.45 x 39mm are less effective. Note the Russians use 7.62 x 39mm weapons for subsonic work, and have developed 9mm versions for police and Spec Op use as well. (the 7.62 versions are roughly equivelent, though with slightly smaller projectiles, but are cheaper as they are already in service, whereas police and Spec Ops can pick and choose with more money).