The recon rifle?

[Beardog]

I wonder; how does it look like? M4A1 with 16 inch barrel? I know the seals develloped it on their own. Is their any info out there?

[carpandean]

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=135
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2500/2588.htm

This one?

[Sir Zach of R.]

The 16" AR-15 barrel has been around for a while.

[Beardog]

The 16" AR-15 barrel has been around for a while.

Yep i know; but is it used by the seals in the sniper/recon role?

[Sir Zach of R.]

NSW has been wanting a rifle that could deliver rounds out to the 500-700 meter range for a while, and it just seemed logical to slightly increase the size of the barrel to 16". While I don't know whether or not it is in use with the SEALs or not, I'm sure the CAG or Devgru have used it somewhere, whether that be Afghanistan or Iraq. My friend's dad (ex USMC) owns several AR-15s that have 16" barrels, and the one's I've shot are quite acurate. Off a bipod I shot a 2" group at a human-sized target from 100 yards. It's funny, 14.5" barrels are illegal, whereas it's aparent that 16" barrels are more acurate.

[Beardog]

It's funny, 14.5" barrels are illegal, whereas it's aparent that 16" barrels are more acurate.

Maybe it has something to do with concealment; its easier to conceal a 14.5 inch than a 16 inch?! In my country you have to have a permit to buy a .22. But if i want to buy a sniper rifle in .338 its no problem, its free to buy, i just pay for the the damn thing and i am off. Thats funny! rofl

Why don't the military change from 14.5 inch to 16 inch?

[thatguy96]

Go here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20464). We get to the recon rifle eventually. There appears to be little standardization beyond the fact that its a 16" barreled S-1-F carbine. It appears that they've been configured every which way with all sorts of accessories.



Why don't the military change from 14.5 inch to 16 inch?
Same reason, overall length and maintaining its compact frame. Futhermore, if they extended the standard carbine barrel out to 16" it might come to mind to simply remove the rifle from the standard issue position and leave it simply in a squad marksman or a similar quasi-specialist role. The SEALs Recon Rifle idea jump started the guys at Crane in their SPR idea. Note the SPR is actually shorter in terms of barrel length from a regular M16 by 2" (18" barrel). Military planners have more often looked into the possibility of fielding shorter weapons overall instead of lengthing carbines and fielding them on more specific levels.

[pettifogger]

Read this thread (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=197603) on ar15.com for discussion of the Recon rifle. There are several pictures (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=213723) of Recon rifle clones made by MSTN.

The Arms Tech Compak-16 is a completely different weapon from the Recon Rifle about which Beardog was asking.

The National Firearms Act of 1934 requires a barrel length of 16" or longer.

There are some 16-inch carbines in military use. The Diemaco Special Forces Weapon, adopted by the United Kingdom as the L119A1, has a 16-inch heavy barrel.

The 14.5" barrel-length is necessitated by two things: the carbine-length gas system and the use of a standard bayonet. The gas system determines the position of the front sight block and the bayonet lug. Mounting a bayonet requires a set distance between the bayonet lug and the flash hider.

[Sir Zach of R.]

Read this thread (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=197603) on ar15.com for discussion of the Recon rifle. There are several pictures (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=213723) of Recon rifle clones made by MSTN.

The Arms Tech Compak-16 is a completely different weapon from the Recon Rifle about which Beardog was asking.

The National Firearms Act of 1934 requires a barrel length of 16" or longer.

There are some 16-inch carbines in military use. The Diemaco Special Forces Weapon, adopted by the United Kingdom as the L119A1, has a 16-inch heavy barrel.

The 14.5" barrel-length is necessitated by two things: the carbine-length gas system and the use of a standard bayonet. The gas system determines the position of the front sight block and the bayonet lug. Mounting a bayonet requires a set distance between the bayonet lug and the flash hider.

I believe you mean the 1994 Crime Bill. Prior to 1994, 14.5 inch barrels and under were legal. The National Firearms Act of 1934 made full-auto weapons illegal, but you could own a full-auto with a stamp of some sort. The problem was there was no stamp. That's all I know. Help me out here guys.

[pettifogger]

The National Firearms Act (http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm)



(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;


The soon-to-expire "Assault Weapons" ban of 1994 did not use barrel length as a defining characteristic of an "assault weapon" (http://www.awbansunset.com/whatis.html).

[thatguy96]

Yeah (man, I had that confused for the longest time too), and the NFA deals with sound suppressors/moderators, short barreled shotguns and rifles (SBSs and SBRs respectively), and novelty weapons and other hard to classify weapons (called Any Other Weapons or AOWs) in addition to machine guns.

[Some Guy]

14.5 inch barrels and under were legal. The National Firearms Act of 1934 made full-auto weapons illegal, but you could own a full-auto with a stamp of some sort. The problem was there was no stamp. That's all I know. Help me out here guys.

14.5" barreled rifles have been NFA arms since 1934. Legal but only if registered.

[Beardog]

http://www.gun-world.net/USA/M16/M4/aa53mk12.gif

An m4A1 can do a pretty good job with a TAO1NSN. Its the shot placement in ten round groups.

[SMGLee]

Navy SEAL decided the SPR, mk12 Mod 0 and 1 aren't to the specification they desired. Therefor a Recce rifle was developed in house to satify the need for a mid range precision rifle. The gun has a match 16inch heavy barrel, free float KAC RAS, and back up iron sight. most of the rifle sprt a low power optic from Leupold or trijicon. A Crane SOPMOD stock is also part of the package.


MSTN has produced several RECCE clone build to the saem exact spec as the original.

You can also find some very helpful data on Ar15.com in regards to the SRP histroy.

hope this helps.

[thatguy96]

We've pretty much hacked apart the SPR history with information from many sources (including the AR-15.com forums) in the thread I linked to in my first post in here.

[tacticalcity@yahoo.com]

There are several main components that separate the Seal Recon rifle from the typical 16" flat top carbine.

This is an accurized rifle designed to be a cross between the M-4 and the Marine's Squad Designated Marksman Rifle (SAM-R).

The M-4 has a 14.5" barrel, the SAM-R has a 20" barrel, and the Recon rifle has a 16" barrel.

Like the SAM-R, the barrel is stainless steel with a heavy (thicker) profile. It is not chrome-lined. They sacrifice barrel life in exchange for accuracy. It has a fast twist rate so it can handle heavier more accurate ammo, but it is still chambered in 5.56mm so that the operator can use the ammo that is likely to be in abundance in any area of operation to which they deploy. This limits the effective range, but does make it more practical than the usual sniper rifle. Odds are, there will always be plenty of 5.56mm around when it hits the fan - if need be you can always get more ammo off your fellow operators (regardless of their state of health).

The 4-rail handguard is free floating and extended, often to full rifle length (though the real one's often still use the standard front sight post and the handguards used have cut outs for them). This rifle doubles as a kind of sniper rifle. Not a true sniper rifle, but it is used for perimeter security much like a sniper rifle might be. This means the barrel will be resting against surfaces a lot when firing. The hotter the barrel gets, the more it is subject to bending. The extended handguard allows you to have a safe surface to rest your rifle on without risking bending the barrel.

Another common feature is the Crane stock that comes with storage compartments and improved cheek welds.

It is common to see this rifle with magnified optics beyond the usual Trijicon ACOG scopes.

As for me, I already had several variations on the AR rifle and wanted to build something unique. It makes a very nice bench rest rifle compared to my 14.7" w/ permanent hider M4gery. It is a little more accurate and I can mount as much glass on it as I like without looking foolish. My M-4 is lighter, so if I planned to carry it all day I would rather have my M-4...but that is just because I am old. Compared to the SAM-R it is significantly lighter and has similar performance characteristics.

My clone is by no means 100% the same as the real deal, then again no two Recon rifles are exactly the same. The general concept is correct. I would say the main noticable difference is that I chose to use a low profile gas block and mount a full length 4-rail free floating handguard from Midwest Industries over it. This is because I find the glare from the front sight post on the optics to be distracting. Oh, and mine is semi-automatic.

I should have a picture soon. My Crane stock is not here yet.

[Limeyfellow]

I believe you mean the 1994 Crime Bill. Prior to 1994, 14.5 inch barrels and under were legal. The National Firearms Act of 1934 made full-auto weapons illegal, but you could own a full-auto with a stamp of some sort. The problem was there was no stamp. That's all I know. Help me out here guys.

The SBR thing has been covered, but you could also add tax stamps weren't too hard to get ahold off in many states. The thing that really screwed people is the addon to the law with nfa86 that banned the registration of any new fully automatic firearm. The 1986 ban is a pain in the arse.

They then used the same laws to crack down on lots of other things they didn't like.