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Camera
02-02-2013, 06:42 PM
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/syria-rebels-seize-key-aleppo-district/story-e6frfkui-1226567402889


"Rebel fighters seized total control of Sheikh Said in southern Aleppo, after troops exhausted by 48 hours of fighting withdrew from the district," one resident of the area said Saturday on condition of anonymity.

"Most neighbourhood residents fled the area after rebels took control."

Why are residents running away from Freedom fighters?


Maybe those that flew were collaborators.

prince99x
02-02-2013, 07:22 PM
It's they right to revolt against their tyrant, peacefully or with weapons.What is the strange thing in this peaceful protest ?.Most of the protesters are kids.That can tell alot.But the funniest part is what written just read it and u will be lol-ing for years they are simply asking u to kill them.

Camera
02-02-2013, 07:39 PM
What is the strange thing in this peaceful protest ?.Most of the protesters are kids.That can tell alot.But the funniest part is what written just read it and u will be lol-ing for years they are simply asking u to kill them.

I found the message funny too for a peaceful protest. That's why I posted the picture.

kawaiku
02-03-2013, 01:03 AM
Some might have seen a documentary on Qatna, an ancient city that existed around the 3rd millennium B.C. on the tv the other day. I got to wondering about the other historical sites such as this one and with the war, looting, and the following destruction I did a quick search to see what I could find. I did a search through the thread but found no articles or discussion on the subject so here are a few:

World Archaeology:

Syria: Cultural heritage in conflict

As the conflict in Syria escalates, Emma Cunliffe reports for CWA on the damage being done to the country’s heritage.

With the shelling of the al-Omari mosque in Dara’a in March 2011, Syria’s heritage became a battleground in the ongoing civil unrest. It is one of the earliest mosques, a testament to the formation and spread of both the religion and the Islamic state. More recently, it was the site of some of the first demonstrations and their subsequent suppression, acting as a rallying point, utilised as a fortress, and symbolising the protestors’ demands – resulting in a second bombing in May 2012. Where past and people meet, heritage cannot help but be drawn into the conflict, becoming a target itself.

For thousands of years, kings and empires have made their mark on Syria: from the mountains to the seas, the deserts to the grain fields, emperors and nomads alike made Syria their home. UNESCO has inscribed six World Heritage Sites here, with more under consideration. Now, the nation’s uniquely rich and impressive heritage is threatened. While the Directorate-General of Antiquities and Museums (DGAM) tries to protect the sites in their care, armed men, tanks, and blockades have made access challenging, if not impossible. However, modern phones and the internet are making information accessible as never before – and the picture being built up is worrying.

Assessing the damage

The extent of the damage can only be guessed at: for every famous site where damage is noted, others inevitably pass unreported. Nonetheless, shelling and gunfire are confirmed at four of the six World Heritage Sites. In February, Agence France-Presse reported from Palmyra – a popular tourist destination, famed for its beautiful oasis setting, which was added to the World Heritage list in 1980 and described as ‘one of the most important cultural centres of the ancient world’. It made grim reading: ‘Tanks were also deployed near the Roman ruins… those residents who have managed to get out spoke of daily machine-gun and tank fire’.

Further shelling occurred at the Ancient Villages of Northern Syria, inscribed only last year, and the city of Bosra, inscribed in 1980. We know, too, that Damascus and Aleppo, both amongst the oldest cities in the world, have been attacked and await reports on the scale of damage.

The Facebook group, Le Patrimoine Archéologique Syrièn en Danger, collates reports and online information of damage to sites. Examples include Ebla (Tell Mardikh) – a 5,000-year-old city under consideration for World Heritage status – which reportedly suffered major damage in a recent battle. YouTube footage of another site under consideration, Apamea, shows extensive shelling, with bulldozers going through the citadel walls. Originally older, the citadel is largely 12th century, surrounded by a 16th-century town. Both are still occupied, and the citadel in particular has been a centre of rebel protests. Apamea itself is a mostly Hellenistic city, notable for a long, beautiful colonnade that stretches across the site: another video shows a tank shelling it...Continued (http://www.world-archaeology.com/news/syria-cultural-heritage-in-conflict/)

UNESCO:

The Director-General of UNESCO appeals for the Protection of the World Heritage City of Aleppo (http://www.unesco.org/new/en/media-services/single-view/news/the_director_general_of_unesco_appeals_for_the_protection_of_the_world_heritage_city_of_alepo/)

UNESCO is particularly alarmed over reports of heavy fighting in Aleppo, which ancient city is a World Heritage site. Strategically positioned on historic trade routes linking East and West, this ancient city has conserved an astounding monumental heritage reflecting the diverse cultures of the peoples that have settled here over millennia including the Hittites, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Umayyads, Ayyubids, Mongols, Mamelukes and Ottomans. The ancient city of Aleppo has been inscribed on the World Heritage List since 1986.

Owing to the volatile security situation, it has not been possible to assess the extent of the damage to the ancient city of Aleppo and several other World Heritage sites including the Crac des Chevaliers, Palmyra, the Ancient Villages in Northern Syria and Damascus.

In the current context of civil strife, UNESCO is also particularly concerned about the risks of looting and pillaging of cultural property. As part of its efforts to mobilize the international community for the protection of Syria’s cultural heritage, UNESCO has alerted the World Customs Organization, INTERPOL, as well as Syria’s neighbouring countries to the potential threats of illicit trafficking in Syrian cultural objects. The Director-General also contacted the United Nations Secretary General and the Chairperson of the Security Council to bring the attention of Kofi Annan, the Special Envoy for the United Nations and the League of Arab States, to the importance of ensuring that the provisions of the international conventions regarding protection of cultural property are respected, especially the 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict and the 1970 Convention on the Means of Prohibiting and Preventing the Illicit Import, Export and Transfer of Ownership of Cultural Property. UNESCO is in close contact with the UN Resident Coordinator in Damascus concerning the situation.

The Director-General urges all parties to respect and protect Syria’s great cultural legacy, which constitutes a source of identity and fulfilment for its people, and to abide by their international obligations in the area of culture.

France 24:

Conflict threatens Syria's archaeological heritage

With its ancient fortresses, castles, mosques and markets, Syria bears the imprint of millennia of Middle Eastern history. But the current uprising is threatening some of the world’s most valuable heritage sites.
By Leela JACINTO (http://www.france24.com/en/category/tags-auteurs/leela-jacinto)


On October 21, 2004, Syria's First Lady Asma al-Assad, looking resplendent in a black and red-trimmed graduation gown, received an honorary degree from the prestigious Sapienza University of Rome for her work in the development of archaeological studies in Syria.

In her acceptance speech, the Syrian First Lady expressed (http://www.presidentassad.net/ASMA_AL_ASSAD/Asma_Al-Assad_PhD.htm) the hope that archaeological finds would “foster mutual respect for what human societies have achieved over the millennia across the globe.”

Barely eight years later – a negligible period in archaeological terms – some of the world’s most magnificent heritage sites have fallen victim to the collapse of mutual respect between the opposing sides of the Syrian uprising.

As the two conflicting camps in the 18-month Syrian uprising appear to be heading for the critical endgame (http://www.france24.com/en/20120720-syria-endgame-stall-alawite-holdout-bashar-assad-latakia-shiite-sunni-muslim), experts are warning that many of Syria’s ancient sites – including those on the UNESCO World Heritage list – are in peril.

In an appeal (http://whc.unesco.org/en/news/862/) issued in May, UNESCO Director-General Irina Bokova expressed “grave concern about possible damage to precious sites” and called upon “all those involved in the conflict to ensure the protection of the outstanding cultural legacy that Syria hosts on its soil”.

In May, Interpol (http://www.interpol.int/News-and-media/News-media-releases/2012/N20120521) joined UNESCO’s warning of “imminent threats” to Syria's cultural heritage, which is “particularly vulnerable to destruction, damages, theft and looting during this period of turmoil”. The international criminal police organization joined the Syrian National Central Bureau in Damascus in issuing a search for a number of mosaics stolen from the ruins of Apamea in Syria’s Hama province.

Situated on the crossroads of the ancient Orient and Occident, with the Levantine routes of the old Silk Road attracting all manner of art, commerce and culture - as well as conquerors and crusaders, Syria today bears the stamp of millennia of Middle Eastern history.

“The country has layers and layers and layers of civilisation. It’s one of the richest countries in the world in terms of heritage,” says Veronique Dauge, chief of UNESCO’s Arab States Unit. “Syria has six sites on the World Heritage list (http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/) - which are the ones we tend to focus on - but it does not take away from the others. Syria also has sites on the UNESCO tentative lis (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/state=sy)t [that are still being considered] and there are numerous other sites across the country.”

Syria is probably the only country in the world where the political and commercial capitals – Damascus and Aleppo respectively – compete for status of world’s oldest continuously inhabited city.

But heavy fighting has gripped both cities as government troops and rebels engage in close-range urban warfare. Earlier this week, residents of Syria’s second city described fierce clashes between rebels and government troops near the Old City in the heart of Aleppo.

Called Haleb in Arabic, the Old City of Aleppo – dominated by an imposing 13th century citadel and a 12th century mosque – has been described as an evocation of The Thousand and One Nights.

It’s one of the six Syrian sites on the World Heritage list – and not the only one imperilled by the latest fighting.

Earlier this year, YouTube footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giv6od5i9Yc&feature=player_embedded) showed shelling damage to the walls of the Crac des Chevalier - a magnificent crusader-era castle overlooking the Jebel Libnan ash-Sharqiya (Anti-Lebanon Range) - that Lawrence of Arabia described simply as “the finest castle in the world”...

(http://www.france24.com/en/20120726-syria-smoking-citadels-shelled-castles-conflict-heritage-sites-danger) In an interview with the Associated Press in May, Bassam Jammous, general director of the Syrian Antiquities and Museum Department, said gunmen broke into the castle, threw out the staff and began excavations to loot the site.

Minefields of allegations and counter-allegations

Responsibility for the destruction of Syrian heritage sites is hard to apportion in a conflict where both camps have their own axes to grind and have proved adept at playing the blame game.

Syrian government officials blame rebels for damaging, looting or setting up bases at heritage sites. Opposition activists meanwhile say government troops are shelling ancient complexes and damaging structures to move tanks and set up temporary bases.

Most archaeologists and antiquities experts are careful to gingerly thread through the minefields of allegations and counter-allegations, keeping their message focused on the preservation of sites in a country that’s virtually impossible to access due to the security situation.

“Our main concern is that we don’t have information, it’s very difficult to get information,” said Dauge. “We rely on news reports and footage on the Web, but there’s no way we can verify it and check what’s happening on the ground.”...Continued (http://www.france24.com/en/20120726-syria-smoking-citadels-shelled-castles-conflict-heritage-sites-danger)

UNESCO's List of Cultural Heritage Sites in Syria (http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/SY/):


Properties inscribed on the World Heritage List (6)

Cultural



Ancient City of Aleppo (http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/21) (1986)
Ancient City of Bosra (http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/22) (1980)
Ancient City of Damascus (http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/20) (1979)
Ancient Villages of Northern Syria (http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1348) (2011)
Crac des Chevaliers and Qal’at Salah El-Din (http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1229) (2006)
Site of Palmyra (http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/23) (1980)

Properties submitted on the Tentative List (12)



Noréas de Hama (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1291/)
Ugrarit (Tell Shamra) (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1292/)
Ebla (Tell Mardikh) (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1293/)
Mari (Tell Hariri) (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1294/)
Dura Europos (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1295/)
Apamée (Afamia) (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1297/)
Un Château du désert : Qasr al-Hayr ach-Charqi (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1298/)
Maaloula (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1299/)
Tartus : la cité-citadelle des Croisés (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1301/)
Raqqa-Ràfiqa : la cité abbasside (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1302/)
L'île d'Arwad (1999) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1303/)
Mari & Europos-Dura sites of Euphrates Valley (2011) (http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5702/)



Wikipedia article about what's been looted and damaged so far: List of Heritage Sites Damaged during Syrian Civil War
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heritage_sites_damaged_during_Syrian_civil_war)

ZapB
02-03-2013, 05:31 AM
Maybe those that flew were collaborators.
Maybe they just fear towel-head islamist fanatics, who will brand you "shabiha" and kill you in the name of the most merciful god.

Camera
02-03-2013, 05:43 AM
Maybe they just fear towel-head islamist fanatics, who will brand you "shabiha" and kill you in the name of the most merciful god.

Also possible.

Territory
02-03-2013, 07:53 AM
President Assad accuses Israel of destabilising Syria


Syria's embattled President Bashar al-Assad has accused Israel of trying to "destabilise" his country.
It was his first remarks on last week's reported Israeli air strike in Syria.


Syrian TV has shown images of the raid Damascus says Israeli jets carried out on a military research centre in Jamraya last Wednesday.
US officials said the air strike targeted a weapons convoy bound for Lebanon. The Israeli defence minister has hinted his country was responsible.
Ehud Barak told a security conference in Germany on Sunday that the strike was "proof that when we say something we mean it".


"We don't think [Syria] should be allowed to bring advanced weapons systems into Lebanon," he told the meeting of top international diplomats and defence officials.
'Bombardment'

President Assad said in a meeting with a top Iranian official in Damascus on Sunday that last Wednesday's raid "unmasked the true role Israel is playing... to destabilise and weaken Syria".

But he said his country's military was able to confront "current threats... and aggression".



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21311874

m4rs75
02-03-2013, 08:17 AM
Israeli defense minister makes first comments on Syria airstrike, suggests Israel responsible

February 03, 2013, Associated Press

MUNICH – Israel's defense minister made his country's first public comments Sunday on an airstrike in Syria, suggesting that Israel had been behind the attack.

U.S. officials have said the attack hit a convoy of anti-aircraft weapons inside Syria bound for the militant Lebanese Hezbollah group but Israel hasn't publicly acknowledged the airstrike.

In the days ahead of the attack, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other top officials repeatedly warned of the dangers of Syrian weapons falling into the hands of Hezbollah and other hostile elements in the region.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak brought the issue up at a gathering of the world's top diplomats and defense officials in Germany, initially saying: "I cannot add anything to what you have read in the newspapers about what happened in Syria several days ago."

But, addressing the audience in English, he then added: "I keep telling frankly that we said — and that's proof when we said something we mean it — we say that we don't think it should be allowed to bring advanced weapons systems into Lebanon."

Since the outbreak of the Syrian civil war, Israeli leaders have repeatedly expressed fears that if Syria were to disintegrate, Assad could lose control of his chemical weapons and other arms.

On Saturday night, Netanyahu, who is in the process of forming a new ruling coalition, said his new government would have to deal with weapons "being stockpiled near us and threatening our cities and civilians" — an apparent reference to the deteriorating situation in Syria.

Barak said "Hezbollah from Lebanon and the Iranians are the only allies that Assad has left."

He said in his view Assad's fall "is coming imminently" and when it happens, "this will be a major blow to the Iranians and Hezbollah."

"I think that they will pay the price," he said.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/02/03/israeli-defense-minister-makes-first-comments-on-syria-airstrike-suggests/

Laker1
02-03-2013, 08:32 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/02/03/israeli-defense-minister-makes-first-comments-on-syria-airstrike-suggests/

He will fall but it will take more time than some think..

prince99x
02-03-2013, 09:49 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/02/03/israeli-defense-minister-makes-first-comments-on-syria-airstrike-suggests/U people just see the pics of the airstrike ,u can see the conovy and the the AD system with no simple cover,and that lead u to think that this was too easy,it was a decoy for a larger opp elsewhere i believe.Just wait and see Israel.U have just eaten the bait.

Laker1
02-03-2013, 10:00 AM
U people just see the pics of the airstrike ,u can see the conovy and the the AD system with no simple cover,and that lead u to think that this was too easy,it was a decoy for a larger opp elsewhere i believe.Just wait and see Israel.U have just eaten the bait.

If your crazy leader will start a war with Israel,we will finish his regime.

africaemerging
02-03-2013, 11:29 AM
President Assad accuses Israel of destabilising Syria

Good to see this clown has a sense of humour

Bloo
02-03-2013, 12:03 PM
Israeli officials shouldn't be tempted by the media to talk about the strike at all. Total ambiguity is the best policy for Israel.

AgentKoba37
02-03-2013, 02:29 PM
Israeli officials shouldn't be tempted by the media to talk about the strike at all. Total ambiguity is the best policy for Israel.

Well Ehud didnt really say anything. He said I have nothing to add. Then he reiterated the long term position on arms transfers to Hezzbollah. Now that could be a hint but again it may be Barak just filling the void and corroborating further. The art of not saying anything while saying smth on display is more like it IMO


Interestingly Davotoglu's allegations of Israel having a secret alliance with Assad have yet to be addressed by anyone in Israeli security establishment. The strikes must have touched a very sensitive nerve for the Turks given their reaction

Bloo
02-03-2013, 02:40 PM
Interestingly Davotoglu's allegations of Isreal having a secret alliance with Assad have yet to be addressed by anyone in Israeli security establishment

turkey says a lot of things these days that aren't worth addressing.

Camera
02-03-2013, 02:45 PM
(…)

Interestingly Davotoglu's allegations of Israel having a secret alliance with Assad have yet to be addressed by anyone in Israeli security establishment. The strikes must have touched a very sensitive nerve for the Turks given their reaction

Turkey spits on Israel daily and what renders Erdogan mad is the Israeli policy to ignore his verbal diarrheas.

EITAN88
02-03-2013, 03:43 PM
Interestingly Davotoglu's allegations of Israel having a secret alliance with Assad have yet to be addressed by anyone in Israeli security establishment. The strikes must have touched a very sensitive nerve for the Turks given their reaction

People stopped getting excited over anti-Israeli Turkish rhetoric quite a while ago.

Even the Israeli media doesn't really care anymore it seems.

Hisroyalhighness
02-03-2013, 07:20 PM
Obama Admin rejected plans to arm Syrian Rebels according to the New York Times.
http://www.interfax.ru/news.asp?id=288411

Genotype
02-03-2013, 11:47 PM
Does anyone have any useful information about Meng/Minakh airbase in North-West Syria (near Azaz)? Specifically if something comes up about resupply efforts now that Taftanaz has fallen. I've been following the siege there for a long time and the recent step up in efforts to capture it.

I'm very interested to know if there's been any decrease in the Syrian Airforce's resupply efforts and my usual sources of info are coming up blank, was wondering if someone on here had something interesting or relevant I've missed.

It's two-fold as it also links in to something else I'm keeping abreast of. The Syrian Airforce seems very capable still when it comes to fixed wing support, but I'm trying to keep track of their numbers specifically regarding their Mi8/Mi17s. I think we've started to see some loss of capability in terms of their transport helicopter fleet and ability to resupply besieged outposts by air..

Just thought I'd mention this excellent article by C.J. Chivers, addressing many of the issues I was starting to ask about 3 weeks ago.

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/the-battle-for-syrias-minakh-air-base/

AgentKoba37
02-04-2013, 04:34 AM
MOSCOW - Two Russians and an Italian have been freed in Syria after being held hostage by rebel forces for nearly two months, the Russian Foreign Ministry said on Monday.

The ministry said in a statement that Viktor Gorelov, Abdessattar Hassun and Merio Belluomo, who were taken hostage on December 12, had been released in exchange for captured Syrian rebels. All three were in good health, it said.

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=302045

Hisroyalhighness
02-04-2013, 10:26 AM
^Good.^
Involving Russia in Syria

More encouraging was Lavrov’s response Saturday, after he met with Khatib privately. He called the Syrian opposition leader’s willingness to consider discussions with regime representatives “an important step” and said that Russia was prepared to keep working with the opposition to facilitate talks. The opposition must now decide who in the Assad regime has sufficiently “clean hands” to be a negotiating partner. This process, of separating “reconcilable” and “irreconcilable” elements of the regime is an essential step in any negotiated political transition.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/02/04/involving-russia-in-syria/

Camera
02-04-2013, 10:29 AM
^Good.^
Involving Russia in Syria

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/02/04/involving-russia-in-syria/

Seems like an attempt to drive Assad toward the exit.

Hisroyalhighness
02-04-2013, 11:27 AM
Seems like an attempt to drive Assad toward the exit.
"We have never been 'fascinated' by or supportive of the Syrian regime. All we want is for there to be stability in Syria, people of Syria will decide the destiny of the country."

Ulytau
02-04-2013, 11:46 AM
People stopped getting excited over anti-Israeli Turkish rhetoric quite a while ago.

Even the Israeli media doesn't really care anymore it seems.

Same for Turkish media not only for Israeli media i guess even for Turkish people,as i seen at comments to kind of news many people are always saying look problem of our country,look problems of Turkmens instead of keep speaking about Israel.

Laker1
02-04-2013, 11:57 AM
Same for Turkish media not only for Israeli media i guess even for Turkish people,as i seen at comments to kind of news many people are always saying look problem of our country,look problems of Turkmens instead of keep speaking about Israel.
The Islamic countries would have to invent Israel if she didn't exist..

tea drinker
02-04-2013, 12:38 PM
Same for Turkish media not only for Israeli media i guess even for Turkish people,as i seen at comments to kind of news many people are always saying look problem of our country,look problems of Turkmens instead of keep speaking about Israel.

A healthy attitude. Hopefully Erdo the awkward will get the boot from office soon.

Ulytau
02-04-2013, 01:10 PM
A healthy attitude. Hopefully Erdo the awkward will get the boot from office soon.

His biggest luck is other parties,sad but true. lol

Flamming_Python
02-04-2013, 01:24 PM
The Islamic countries would have to invent Israel if she didn't exist..

lol.........

Laker1
02-04-2013, 02:14 PM
lol.........
Hehe they can blame Israel on everything that happends in their countries and their public buys it..earth quake? It's because of Israel..Economic situation? It's because of Israel..crime? It's because of Israel..no democracy? It's because of Israel..

TimmyOtool
02-04-2013, 04:42 PM
Saw this on another board, some top tier kit seems to be in rebel hands what is supposedly an rpg-29 is quite devastating here. But amazing luck for the guy thats blown clear of the turret.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8pwmdAjePLY#!

geolocator
02-04-2013, 05:31 PM
Hehe they can blame Israel on everything that happends in their countries and their public buys it..earth quake? It's because of Israel..Economic situation? It's because of Israel..crime? It's because of Israel..no democracy? It's because of Israel..
You should be proud that Israel somehow unites arabs, this is a privilege of empires only:).

AgentKoba37
02-04-2013, 05:38 PM
Now a major new option of Syria as a major source for Russian-managed gas flows to the EU has emerged. If al-Assad survives, Russia will be in the position as savior to play a decisive role in developing and exploiting the Syrian gas. Israel, where Russia also has major cards to play, could theoretically shift to back a Russian-Syrian-Iraqi-Iran gas consortium were Israel and Iran to reach some modus vivendi on the nuclear and other issues, not impossible were the political constellation in Israel to change after the coming elections. Turkey, which is presently in a deep internal battle between Davutoglu and President Gül on the one side and Erdogan on the other, is dependent on Russia’s Gazprom for some 40% of gas to its industry. Were Davutoglu and his faction to lose, Turkey could play a far more constructive role in the region as transit country for Syrian and Iranian gas.

The battle for the future control of Syria is at the heart of this enormous geopolitical war and tug of war. Its resolution will have enormous consequences for either world peace or endless war and conflict and slaughter.

https://pietervanostaeyen.wordpress.com/2013/01/29/syria-turkey-israel-and-the-greater-middle-east-energy-war/

lots of hogwash in that link IMO but these two paragraphs are interesting

Laker1
02-04-2013, 05:40 PM
You should be proud that Israel somehow unites arabs, this is a privilege of empires only:).

Hehe the funny thing is that their public buys it..they don't ask themselves:"Israel is responsible for those things or it's propaganda?"..it allows the leaders to restrict human rights on pretexts that they need to make sure that Israel doesn't spy on the country ,etc.

kawaiku
02-04-2013, 05:41 PM
Saw this on another board, some top tier kit seems to be in rebel hands what is supposedly an rpg-29 is quite devastating here. But amazing luck for the guy thats blown clear of the turret.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8pwmdAjePLY#!There is a separate thread for videos and pictures here: Syrian Uprising - Photos and Videos Thread (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?204322-Syrian-Uprising-Photos-and-Videos-Thread-Read-First-post-Excessive-graphic-warn/page642) in the photos and videos section of the forum. I believe it was already discussed at some great length there.

AgentKoba37
02-04-2013, 05:43 PM
Hehe the funny thing is that their public buys it..they don't ask themselves:"Israel is responsible for those things or it's propaganda?"..it allows the leaders to restrict human rights on pretexts that they need to make sure that Israel doesn't spy on the country ,etc.

This whole anti Israeli jihad is just beyond ****in stupid IMO. It is 2013 out there Israel is here to stay. Just relax and find ways to coexist peacefully. So much time and effort wasted on all sides.

Laker1
02-04-2013, 05:47 PM
https://pietervanostaeyen.wordpress.com/2013/01/29/syria-turkey-israel-and-the-greater-middle-east-energy-war/

lots of hogwash in that link IMO but these two paragraphs are interesting
LOL..Israel and Iran will reach a modus vivendi?..i don't know what he takes..

AgentKoba37
02-04-2013, 05:50 PM
LOL..Israel and Iran will reach modus vivendi?..i don't know what he takes..

If a third party could provide certain guarantees why not? I do not see real fundamental differences other than emotions vendettas and 3rd party strategic interests that could render this out of realm of popossibilities

Btw in case you are not fully familiar with the term:

modus vivendi

: a feasible arrangement or practical compromise; especially : one that bypasses difficulties

themacedonian
02-04-2013, 05:56 PM
The Islamic countries would have to invent Israel if she didn't exist..

that subtle sense of humour ........:)

AgentKoba37
02-04-2013, 05:59 PM
that subtle sense of humour ........:)

Hating Israel seems a national pastime for some.

geolocator
02-04-2013, 06:13 PM
LOL..Israel and Iran will reach a modus vivendi?..i don't know what he takes..
Let's look into history. The only relative success for Iran was with Hezbollah in the export of revolution policy they achieved and actually stopped it many years ago.
It can be a global exchange. The problem is that the current government in Israel will never accept it, but if Israel will have a strong and very popular leader in future who will convince its people - the political shift can happen.

Laker1
02-04-2013, 06:15 PM
If a third party could provide certain guarantees why not? I do not see real fundamental differences other than emotions vendettas and 3rd party strategic interests that could render this out of realm of popossibilities

Btw in case you are not fully familiar with the term:

modus vivendi

: a feasible arrangement or practical compromise; especially : one that bypasses difficulties

It's a radical religious regime and they(Ayatollahs)really believe that we should be wiped from the map.

Laker1
02-04-2013, 06:18 PM
Let's look into history. The only relative success for Iran was with Hezbollah in the export of revolution policy they achieved and actually stopped it many years ago.
It can be a global exchange. The problem is that the current government in Israel will never accept it, but if Israel will have a strong and very popular leader in future who will convince its people - the political shift can happen.
What to accept? They want Israel to be wiped from the map. I don't know on what are you talking about..if in Iran there will be a secular regime,than everything can happen. We might have good ties or at least normal ties.

PapaDoc91
02-04-2013, 06:27 PM
On Friday, Feb. 1, the Lebanese army lost two soldiers, a sergeant and a captain, who were part of a strike force unit that belonged to Lebanese Army Intelligence. The two soldiers died during a clash between the army unit and armed Sunni fundamentalists in ​​Arsal, which is near the Syrian border in the Bekaa Valley. That incident has many political and security dimensions and it confirms, as Al-Monitor has been reporting, that Jabhat al-Nusra (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/security/2013/01/jabhat-al-nusras-goals-extend-beyond-syria.html) is now in Lebanon and that the group’s activities are about to become public.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/02/sunni-awakening-lebanon.html#ixzz2Jo0PFlK9

The Syrian jihadis have their eyes on Lebanon. Wouldn't be ironic the Lebanese military and hezbollah join forces to take out the jihadis. Anyway the point is Syria is the lynch pin of chaos in the mideast. Once Assad falls there will chaos in all the border states except Jordan,Turkey,Israel.

Laker1
02-04-2013, 06:31 PM
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/02/sunni-awakening-lebanon.html#ixzz2Jo0PFlK9

The Syrian jihadis have their eyes on Lebanon. Wouldn't be ironic the Lebanese military and hezbollah join forces to take out the jihadis. Anyway the point is Syria is the lynch pin of chaos in the mideast. Once Assad falls there will chaos in all the border states except Jordan,Turkey,Israel.
Jihadist can also get close to the Golan heights and fire shells and stuff like that.

geolocator
02-04-2013, 06:32 PM
What to accept? They want Israel to be wiped from the map. I don't know on what are you talking about..if in Iran there will be a secular regime,than everything can happen. We might have good ties or at least normal ties.
I'm sure that the curent Iran authorities are ready to a deal like this because they are under attack from salafists and as I mentoned above their policy is failed. Why not? They stop their anti-Israel propaganda, then could be an agreement to disarm Hezbollah...

AgentKoba37
02-04-2013, 06:34 PM
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/02/sunni-awakening-lebanon.html#ixzz2Jo0PFlK9

The Syrian jihadis have their eyes on Lebanon. Wouldn't be ironic the Lebanese military and hezbollah join forces to take out the jihadis. Anyway the point is Syria is the lynch pin of chaos in the mideast. Once Assad falls there will chaos in all the border states except Jordan,Turkey,Israel.

Jordan could have a serious islamist issue though. Turkey may experience some limited unrest as well. Israel is convinced they can manage chaos on their borders no matter what

AgentKoba37
02-04-2013, 06:39 PM
I'm sure that the curent Iran authorities are ready to a deal like this because they are under attack from salafists and as I mentoned above their policy is failed. Why not? They stop their anti-Israel propaganda, then could be an agreement to disarm Hezbollah...

The propaganda can be toned down and some uncomfortable personalities may have to go

Laker1
02-04-2013, 06:41 PM
I'm sure that the curent Iran authorities are ready to a deal like this because they are under attack from salafists and as I mentoned above their policy is failed. Why not? They stop their anti-Israel propaganda, then could be an agreement to disarm Hezbollah...

Why do you think that they will stop it? The hatred of the regime towards Israel is so big. They will never disarm Hezbollah

Laker1
02-04-2013, 06:42 PM
Jordan could have a serious islamist issue though. Turkey may experience some limited unrest as well. Israel is convinced they can manage chaos on their borders no matter what

The Arab spring will reach Jordan. The question is when..

Climber
02-04-2013, 06:44 PM
Jordan could have a serious islamist issue though. Turkey may experience some limited unrest as well. Israel is convinced they can manage chaos on their borders no matter what

Hey, looks like someone else thinks like me :)

AgentKoba37
02-04-2013, 06:46 PM
Why do you think that they will stop it? The hatred of the regime towards Israel is so big. They will never disarm Hezbollah

Germans managed to kill some 20,000,000 Russians just some 70 years ago and yet we manage not to hate each other. Never say never

AgentKoba37
02-04-2013, 06:48 PM
Hey, looks like someone else thinks like me :)

at least we agree on smth ;)

Laker1
02-04-2013, 06:49 PM
Germans managed to kill some 20,000,000 Russians just some 70 years ago and yet we manage not to hate each other. Never say never

But when politics involve with religion ,you will never have normal ties..as long as you have a radical regime in Iran,the ties will be really bad.

geolocator
02-04-2013, 06:55 PM
Why do you think that they will stop it? The hatred of the regime towards Israel is so big. They will never disarm Hezbollah
I think that all that is behind the hatred is a will to be arab world leaders. This is their real aim. They loosing. But if they'd stabilize Iraq the line will separate Turkey from the rest of "similar" countries. A very interesting idea to play with. Kurds are problem but they're not in the areas where pipelines could go. Israel gets all gas and oil resources as a bonus but possibly looses some water at Golan Heghts in return.

Laker1
02-04-2013, 07:02 PM
I think that all that is behind the hatred is a will to be arab world leaders. This is their real aim. They loosing. But if they'd stabilize Iraq the line will separate Turkey from the rest of "similar" countries. A very interesting idea to play with. Kurds are problem but they're not in the areas where pipelines could go. Israel gets all gas and oil resources as a bonus but possibly looses some water at Golan Heghts in return.

You have to understand-from their religious point of view-Israel doesn't have a place in the area. It's very simple. If they had this opinion because of other reasons(not religious ones),it might be that you could change their opinion,but when you involve politics with religion,then it's a dead end. It's like asking Al-qaeda to be a friend of the U.S. Do you think that it can happen? I'm pretty sure that not..

Climber
02-04-2013, 07:16 PM
at least we agree on smth ;)

On what? you told me that Israel was lucky not having me as a defence advisor because I told you that those Jihadi cancers will eat Lebanon way before they try something fool against us. As far I remember we didnt agree.

kalerab
02-04-2013, 07:29 PM
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/02/sunni-awakening-lebanon.html#ixzz2Jo0PFlK9

The Syrian jihadis have their eyes on Lebanon. Wouldn't be ironic the Lebanese military and hezbollah join forces to take out the jihadis. Anyway the point is Syria is the lynch pin of chaos in the mideast. Once Assad falls there will chaos in all the border states except Jordan,Turkey,Israel.

al-Monitor fails to mention that LAF soldiers were killed by Khaled Hamid clan after patrol shot him. In other words revenge attack.

Saddest thing about all this is how both M8 and M14 are trying to capitalize on death of 2 soldiers who were just following orders.

Also this part


Several press reports said that the town’s mosques issued calls for all gunmen to pursue the army unit and block its escape. In a short period of time, the Lebanese army unit found itself surrounded by hundreds of fundamentalists and jihadists. The long gunfight resulted in the killing of the army sergeant and captain and the wounding of eight soldiers. Although the jihadists knew that they were fighting Lebanese army soldiers, they captured the bodies of the two dead soldiers, as well as the wounded and the remaining soldiers and took them to Arsal’s main square in what looked like a jihadist ceremony that involved celebratory gunfire and other practices, according to Lebanese press reports.

is complete and utter bollocks. Than again, columnist at Al-Akhbar Lebanese newspaper and the host of a weekly political talk show on OTV explains it very well.

Hence why I am not fan of Lebanese media, jacking for one side or another.

prince99x
02-04-2013, 08:50 PM
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/٢٠١٣/٠٢/sunni-awakening-lebanon.html#ixzz٢Jo٠PFlK٩The Syrian jihadis have their eyes on Lebanon. Wouldn't be ironic the Lebanese military and hezbollah join forces to take out the jihadis. Anyway the point is Syria is the lynch pin of chaos in the mideast. Once Assad falls there will chaos in all the border states except Jordan,Turkey,Israel.Non are exceptionsThe (wont happen) fall is a crazy mind blowing full scale barrage of hell that will not off and will reach beyond what ur peaceful mind can imagine.Im not trolling not joking and absolutely not kidding.We got the missiles need to fu*k the life of anyone going to fu** with us.We aren't Libya ,Lebanon,Afghanistan,Iraq or Iran.Syria is much different..

McJustice
02-04-2013, 08:57 PM
The Arab spring will reach Jordan. The question is when..

Personally I hope it flows into the KSA AND Qatar, I'm sure both their peoples realize that their monarchist authoritarian ideology is slowly becoming obsolete in this age.

Laker1
02-04-2013, 09:05 PM
Personally I hope it flows into the KSA AND Qatar, I'm sure both their peoples realize that their monarchist authoritarian ideology is slowly becoming obsolete in this age.

It can reach these countries in some point as well. Now with this storm ,there is no Arab leader that he is immune(all of them are dictators).

Siempre_Leal
02-04-2013, 09:13 PM
Syrian Oppostion Chief says Offers Assad Peaceful Exit



BEIRUT (*******) - Syrian opposition leader Moaz Alkhatib urgedSyrian President Bashar al-Assad's government on Monday to start talks for its departure from power and save the country from greater ruin after almost two years of bloodshed.
Seeking to step up pressure on Assad to respond to his offer of talks - which dismayed some in his own opposition coalition, Alkhatibsaid he would be ready to meet the president's deputy.
"I ask the regime to send Farouq al-Shara - if it accepts the idea - and we can sit with him," he said, referring to Syria's vice president who has implicitly distanced himself from Assad's crackdown on mass unrest that became an armed revolt.


http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-opposition-chief-under-fire-talks-assad-allies-124401512.html

Laker1
02-04-2013, 09:20 PM
Syrian Oppostion Chief says Offers Assad Peaceful Exit



http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-opposition-chief-under-fire-talks-assad-allies-124401512.html

And Assad will give him the keys and wish him good luck as the new President..

Ya22
02-04-2013, 09:38 PM
Syrian Oppostion Chief says Offers Assad Peaceful Exit



http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-opposition-chief-under-fire-talks-assad-allies-124401512.html

He will say no and murder 10,000 more innocent civilians.

McJustice
02-04-2013, 09:47 PM
He will say no and murder 10,000 more innocent civilians.

The National Coalition only are extending this peace deal to Assad because they are losing the ground war, why would he say yes?

The FSA and affiliates would want no part of it anyway.

Climber
02-04-2013, 09:52 PM
Non are exceptionsThe (wont happen) fall is a crazy mind blowing full scale barrage of hell that will not off and will reach beyond what ur peaceful mind can imagine.Im not trolling not joking and absolutely not kidding.We got the missiles need to fu*k the life of anyone going to fu** with us.We aren't Libya ,Lebanon,Afghanistan,Iraq or Iran.Syria is much different..

We know.

10 ****ing chars

Flamming_Python
02-05-2013, 01:54 AM
Hehe they can blame Israel on everything that happends in their countries and their public buys it..earth quake? It's because of Israel..Economic situation? It's because of Israel..crime? It's because of Israel..no democracy? It's because of Israel..

Israel is used as a massive scapegoat for the theocracies and dictatorships in the region no doubt about it.

ZapB
02-05-2013, 04:53 AM
Syrian Oppostion Chief says Offers Assad Peaceful Exit
But will Al-Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham and other islamist terror organizations agree to this? That's the real question, not what some pseudo-chief of the opposition is willing to do.

kalerab
02-05-2013, 05:05 AM
Personally I hope it flows into the KSA AND Qatar, I'm sure both their peoples realize that their monarchist authoritarian ideology is slowly becoming obsolete in this age.

KSA, maybe though not if it will be perceived as sectarian uprising by Shias in East. As for Qatar, population where foreigners are majority and ruling family can pay for literally any concession that would minority of population require? Nah.

prince99x
02-05-2013, 06:10 AM
KSA, maybe though not if it will be perceived as sectarian uprising by Shias in East. As for Qatar, population where foreigners are majority and ruling family can pay for literally any concession that would minority of population require? Nah.Syrian weren't ever hungry.However what about creating FSA(KSA version ) for a start then announcing the jihad against Saudi Family and drive jihadi from every single corner of the world by paying them enough money.Then support them by Russia Iran Syria (missiles) every anti-western policy country.After that we make 6000 media machines (magz,tv,even fuc#ing radio,newspapers ....and specially 4000k websites and fb pages ).I got bored with this but by short that what they tried to do in Syria and so far 2 years of tears for them.

Ya22
02-05-2013, 06:17 AM
Syrian weren't ever hungry.However what about creating FSA(KSA version ) for a start then announcing the jihad against Saudi Family and drive jihadi from every single corner of the world by paying them enough money.Then support them by Russia Iran Syria (missiles) every anti-western policy country.After that we make 6000 media machines (magz,tv,even fuc#ing radio,newspapers ....and specially 4000k websites and fb pages ).I got bored with this but by short that what they tried to do in Syria and so far 2 years of tears for them.
RIP 70,000 Syrian civilians who were butchered by the criminal ASSad.

Still haven't seen any evidence pointing to the 'fact' someone paid someone to fight this war criminal.
Only weapons I've seen in the hand of the freedom-fighters are ex-Syrian army weapons. cause those soldiers knew they had 2 options: Kill civilians or defect.

Vespasian
02-05-2013, 07:03 AM
RIP 70,000 Syrian civilians who were butchered by the criminal ASSad.

Still haven't seen any evidence pointing to the 'fact' someone paid someone to fight this war criminal.
Only weapons I've seen in the hand of the freedom-fighters are ex-Syrian army weapons. cause those soldiers knew they had 2 options: Kill civilians or defect.

Saudi Arabia plans to fund Syrian rebel army (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/22/saudi-arabia-syria-rebel-army)

Syrian militants are radical islamists French doctor (http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2012/09/09/syrian-militants-are-radical-islamists-french-doctor.html)


According to Beres, 60 per cent of his patients during his two week service in Syria were rebels– and about half of those were foreign. He says the fighters aren’t focused on the fall of the Assad regime. Instead, they have their eyes on a different kind of prize – implementing Sharia law throughout the country.
"It's really something strange to see. They are directly saying that they aren't interested in Bashar Assad's fall, but are thinking about how to take power afterward and set up an Islamic state with Sharia law to become part of the world Emirate," the French doctor told *******.


Syria's Secular and Islamic Rebels: Who are the Saudis and Qataris Arming? (http://world.time.com/2012/09/18/syrias-secular-and-islamist-rebels-who-are-the-saudis-and-the-qataris-arming/)


And yet, as TIME reported in June, a secretive group operates something like a command center in Istanbul, directing the distribution of vital military supplies believed to be provided by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and transported with the help of Turkish intelligence to the Syrian border and then to the rebels. Further reporting has revealed more details of the operation, the politics and favoritism that undermine the task of creating a unified rebel force out of the wide array of groups trying to topple the Assad regime.

Keep eating those wheaties.

Camera
02-05-2013, 07:13 AM
I read few days ago an article in Hebrew where a defected Syrian general was quoted for saying that the SAA loses in armored vehicles already equal its loses in YKW. According to him, the numbers of KIA (24K) and wounded are many times more.

ZapB
02-05-2013, 08:31 AM
I read few days ago an article in Hebrew where a defected Syrian general was quoted for saying that the SAA loses in armored vehicles already equal its loses in YKW. According to him, the numbers of KIA (24K) and wounded are many times more.
This figures shouldn't surprise anyone going through the Syrian photos&videos thread. The amount of documented destroyed armor is really high.

Vespasian
02-05-2013, 09:45 AM
I read few days ago an article in Hebrew where a defected Syrian general was quoted for saying that the SAA loses in armored vehicles already equal its loses in YKW. According to him, the numbers of KIA (24K) and wounded are many times more.


Because a defected Syrian general wouldn't try to exaggerate the figures in favour of a side he is just joining would he?

Here is pretty recent figures from the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights, which is a pro FSA organisation so some of their figures can be taken with a pinch of salt. Even their figures show a large number of, 'rebel,' casualites, and a relatively low amount of security force deaths. Many of those classed as, 'civilian,' casualites have actually been members of the FSA, so the figures are skewed. Judging from the various sources my rough guess would be that there has been about 13,000-19,000+ security personnel killed, and about 20,000-30,000+ FSA killed, with the rest being non combatants. My guess would be that the SOHR's figures give an inflated number of security personnel casualties, and a decreased number of FSA casualties, just based on their biased political affiliation.

Casualty Figures (http://www.facebook.com/syriaohr/posts/327504494024562)

Hisroyalhighness
02-05-2013, 10:42 AM
Syrian opposition ready for talks with Vice President al-Sharaa

On Tuesday, Syrian National Coalition head Ahmed Moaz al-Khatib confirmed his readiness to meet Syrian Vice President Faruq al-Sharaa. Initially, Al-Khatib urged Damascus to start direct talks with the opposition on January 30, a proposal that was downplayed by President Bashar Assad.

Al-Khatib called on the Syrian authorities to sit down at the negotiating table during his last week’s interview with the Al Arabiya and Al Jazeera news networks.

Meanwhile, Russian experts remain at odds over the latest steps by the Syrian opposition. Some describe them as positive signals, while others see them as another unacceptable ultimatum to President Assad.’

They are echoed by Boris Dolgov, of the Moscow-based Institute for Oriental Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences, who says that Assad is unlikely to give the go-ahead to the talks.

"The opposition’s attempts to deliver ultimatums are counterproductive steps," Dolgov says, "stressing the importance of forming what he calls a real opposition. The Syrian National Coalition is yet to be recognized by all the armed opposition groups, which is why speaking of political feasibility of the talks is irrelevant."

Some opposition groups from the Syrian National Coalition are up in arms against the negotiations with Damascus. They have already dubbed al-Khatib’s proposal a treacherous act.

Sergei Demidenko, of the Institute of Strategic Assessments and Analysis in Moscow, underscores the need to begin the talks as soon as possible. The problem is that the Syrian opposition’s lineup is very diverse, Demidenko says.

"It would be naïve to think that the possible talks could drastically change the situation in Syria," he says. "The opposition’s lineup is diverse, namely, those who call for talks with Bashar Assad cannot be called the most active part of the opposition. Its most influential members are the Islamists who are loath to sit at the negotiating table."

It is not accidental that al-Khatib decided to meet al-Sharaa, who belongs to the Sunni branch of Islam. The Sunnis account for more than half the population of Syria, which is not the case with the Alawites, who make up only 16 percent of the country’s population, among them Bashar Assad. Some say that the Alawites are a separate religious group that has nothing in common with Islam.

As for al-Sharaa, he has repeatedly called for talks with the opposition, something that prompted the Arab League and the UN to see him as a possible successor of Bashar Assad.

Mass anti-government protests began in Syria in the spring of 2011. Several months later, they turned into a civil war. The opposition groups are armed and sponsored by some Arab countries. According to some sources, up to 10,000 people have died in violence in Syria since 2011.


http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_02_05/Syrian-opposition-ready-for-talks-with-Vice-President-al-Sharaa/

ImpNavigator
02-05-2013, 01:28 PM
Seems it confirms earlier rumors that all the most modern Syrian air defense systems, such as Buk-M2E, Pantsir-S1, Pechora-2M, new Chinese radars etc., are now withdrawn in safe Alawite coastal areas ..


In surprisingly candid remarks, al-Freij said that rebels have made Syrian air defenses across the country a focus of their attacks over the past months, attacking some with mortars while attempting to seize others in order to incapacitate them.
In response, he said the Syrian leadership decided to station them all in one safe place, leading to "gaps in radar coverage in some areas."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57567650/syria-defense-minister-suggests-no-retaliation-against-israel-air-strike-in-the-works/

Ya22
02-05-2013, 01:37 PM
Seems it confirms earlier rumors that all the most modern Syrian air defense systems, such as Buk-M2E, Pantsir-S1, Pechora-2M, new Chinese radars etc., are now withdrawn in safe Alawite coastal areas ..


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57567650/syria-defense-minister-suggests-no-retaliation-against-israel-air-strike-in-the-works/

Yet someone has managed to bomb Damascus from the air.. great SAM systems..

Hisroyalhighness
02-05-2013, 01:40 PM
Yet someone has managed to bomb Damascus from the air.. great SAM systems..



FFS! enough already with the d1ck measuring contest!

We know absolutely nothing about the attack. people assume that there were, or weren't AD involved, based on their personal ego and nothing else. it's an exercise in futility.

How about everyone give it a rest, until and when new information will come?

Disease spreads as Syria casualties and drug shortages grow-WHO

* Hepatitis, diarrhoea spreading via dirty water, WHO says

http://www.*******.com/article/2013/02/05/syria-crisis-health-idUSL5N0B55CV20130205

Camera
02-05-2013, 02:21 PM
Syrian lawmaker rejects rebels’ conditions for talksObama administration says those with ‘blood on their hands’ in Syria need to be held accountable
DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — A prominent lawmaker from Syria’s ruling party on Tuesday rejected conditions proposed by the rebel opposition for peace talks, effectively extinguishing the first glimmer of hope in months that Syria’s civil war can be resolved through a negotiated solution.

Also Tuesday, fighting broke out between rebels seeking to topple the regime of President Bashar Assad and government forces near a Syrian border crossing with Jordan, injuring 17 civilians.

CONTINUED: http://www.timesofisrael.com/syrian-lawmaker-rejects-rebels-conditions-for-talks/

Laworkerbee
02-05-2013, 10:12 PM
Obama administration says those with ‘blood on their hands’ in Syria need to be held accountable

Says the government who routinely kills civilians and then denies them the ability to make legal claims for compensation

Laker1
02-05-2013, 10:21 PM
Says the government who routinely kills civilians and then denies them the ability to make legal claims for compensation

You have a quiet radical view if you blame Obama on fighting terrorism...some consider Obama too soft...

themacedonian
02-05-2013, 10:38 PM
Syrian lawmaker rejects rebels’ conditions for talks

Obama administration says those with ‘blood on their hands’ in Syria need to be held accountable


DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — A prominent lawmaker from Syria’s ruling party on Tuesday rejected conditions proposed by the rebel opposition for peace talks, effectively extinguishing the first glimmer of hope in months that Syria’s civil war can be resolved through a negotiated solution.

Also Tuesday, fighting broke out between rebels seeking to topple the regime of President Bashar Assad and government forces near a Syrian border crossing with Jordan, injuring 17 civilians.

CONTINUED: http://www.timesofisrael.com/syrian-lawmaker-rejects-rebels-conditions-for-talks/

I stopped reading at "The U.S. and other world powers have pushed for a negotiated solution ...."

They have been pushing for a complete regime change. The only thing one can negotiate with the US is the time available to pack the bags.

Laker1
02-05-2013, 10:40 PM
I stopped reading at "The U.S. and other world powers have pushed for a negotiated solution ...."

They have been pushing for a complete regime change. The only thing one can negotiate with the US is the time available to pack the bags.




It's little bit confusing...the Americans said that Assad must leave so on what you can negotiate?...

PapaDoc91
02-05-2013, 11:00 PM
Personally I hope it flows into the KSA AND Qatar, I'm sure both their peoples realize that their monarchist authoritarian ideology is slowly becoming obsolete in this age.

If what was is going on Syria was happening in Saudi Arabia how would the West respond. I guess we would get involved somehow.

Duck Fluffer
02-05-2013, 11:52 PM
If what was is going on Syria was happening in Saudi Arabia how would the West respond. I guess we would get involved somehow.

Meh more than likely we would do turn our backs and pretend like its nothing like how we gone about it in Bahrain. The thing is we have a lot of interest in the ME and strategic Naval bases and if it means dealing with dictators then so be it.

Regime change in Syria is bound to happen but don't be surprised if AQ militants takes over and when it does then smh.

Laworkerbee
02-06-2013, 03:21 AM
You have a quiet radical view if you blame Obama on fighting terrorism...some consider Obama too soft...

You once again don't have a clue what you're talking about. Try looking into the reports of how many innocents people die from drone strikes carried out every year.

Now go and try to find an instance of a direct apology of compensation to "Collateral Damage" to victims of the United States government.

Oh, and in case you didn't notice it. The Syrian government is also fighting terrorism. Funny how you along one party sanction to do as it pleases and yet in the same breath deny that to another. Double standards.


Personally I hope it flows into the KSA AND Qatar, I'm sure both their peoples realize that their monarchist authoritarian ideology is slowly becoming obsolete in this age.

Insh'Allah!

Camera
02-06-2013, 03:55 AM
You once again don't have a clue what you're talking about. Try looking into the reports of how many innocents people die from drone strikes carried out every year.

Now go and try to find an instance of a direct apology of compensation to "Collateral Damage" to victims of the United States government.

Oh, and in case you didn't notice it. The Syrian government is also fighting terrorism. Funny how you along one party sanction to do as it pleases and yet in the same breath deny that to another. Double standards.

Insh'Allah!

The UAVs of the IAF do a cleaner job in targeted killing.
What's your opinion on the strike against the missiles convoy to Hezbollah?

Flamming_Python
02-06-2013, 03:57 AM
Well I don't like the drone attacks much but if the NATO allies are unwilling to put the boots on the ground necessary in Afghanistan, then what other option is there?
Anyway this is off-topic.

Acheron
02-06-2013, 04:11 AM
RIP 70,000 Syrian civilians who were butchered by the criminal ASSad.
Still haven't seen any evidence pointing to the 'fact' someone paid someone to fight this war criminal.
You are kidding me, right? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17578248



Only weapons I've seen in the hand of the freedom-fighters are ex-Syrian army weapons.
I am not going to even bother with this, just take a look at the "photos and videos from syria thread": http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?204322-Syrian-Uprising-Photos-and-Videos-Thread-Read-First-post-Excessive-graphic-warn/page644
TL;DR: There clearly are non-Syrian weapons, munitions, and materiel in the hands of the rebels.



cause those soldiers knew they had 2 options: Kill civilians or defect.
*facepalm* A clear hyperbole, in the vein of every FSA is a head-cutting, woman-hating, koran-bashing, terrorist foreigner.

PS: Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to reply to posts like these...

tea drinker
02-06-2013, 04:34 AM
Insh'Allah!
Worlds biggest high five mate! But as I see it they are too wealthy, a more restless underclass is needed for that to take root. They rule with an iron fist so some momentum is needed. Besides you are looking a 50 years for any (internal) benefit to come, as the education level will not be good. We aren't talking Iran here. Immediate benefit of not being able to spread their retardation through corrupt payments works out of the box for me. Besides, they are friends of our own ruling class so we take it round the back.
Take a look at the amount of terror sponsored and carried out by Saudi's - I think you guys have some personal experience. I can see why you are so strong against the Jihadi's in Syria. Having said that our Israeli friends have their own experience which colours their viewpoint in the Syria affair.

Flamming_Python
02-06-2013, 04:38 AM
Most young Saudis I've met in the West are really not so bad, actually they always seemed like friendly, liberal, open-minded people.
I think the problem is their stiffling, backwards oligarchy/aristocracy, that rules with absolute power and justifies its rule with Islam, Sharia and ultra-conservatism.

Laworkerbee
02-06-2013, 06:22 AM
Still haven't seen any evidence pointing to the 'fact' someone paid someone to fight this war criminal.Only weapons I've seen in the hand of the freedom-fighters are ex-Syrian army weapons. cause those soldiers knew they had 2 options: Kill civilians or defect.

Are you high or just being obtuse? How you ignored the countless articles documenting the GCC countries paying salaries?

Never mind, I already know the answer.....



The UAVs of the IAF do a cleaner job in targeted killing.
What's your opinion on the strike against the missiles convoy to Hezbollah?

Israel thought it was enough of a threat to destroy the convoy and that's that. Though I must say I do believe Israel has sent conflicting signals about where her "Red Line" stood - I understood it to mean any sort of WMD - Now it seems any attempt at logistics between South Lebanon and Syria will have to be under the watchful eyes of the IAF.

The IAF drone program is like night and day in comparison to ours and I believe as well that Israel does a much cleaner job with much better intelligence.


Well I don't like the drone attacks much but if the NATO allies are unwilling to put the boots on the ground necessary in Afghanistan, then what other option is there?
Anyway this is off-topic.

The drone program responsible for strikes in Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, and God only knows where else is not run by the United States military or NATO but the CIA and is therefore mostly unaccountable for civilian deaths.

Laker1
02-06-2013, 06:29 AM
Israel thought it was enough of a threat to destroy the convoy and that's that. Though I must say I do believe Israel has sent conflicting signals about where her "Red Line" stood - I understood it to mean any sort of WMD - Now it seems any attempt at logistics between South Lebanon and Syria will have to be under the watchful eyes of the IAF.

The IAF drone program is like night and day in comparison to ours and I believe as well that Israel does a much cleaner job with much better intelligence.



.

Only attempts to transfer strategic weapons...in the last 6 years they gave Hezbollah around 60.000 rockets and missiles and we didn't attack them..only weapons that can change the balance of power will be bombed and CW as well.

Camera
02-06-2013, 06:40 AM
Israel thought it was enough of a threat to destroy the convoy and that's that. Though I must say I do believe Israel has sent conflicting signals about where her "Red Line" stood - I understood it to mean any sort of WMD - Now it seems any attempt at logistics between South Lebanon and Syria will have to be under the watchful eyes of the IAF.

The IAF drone program is like night and day in comparison to ours and I believe as well that Israel does a much cleaner job with much better intelligence.

There were many warnings against the transfer of SAMs, Scuds, AT missiles… But the media put the emphasis on CWs.

BitnikGr
02-06-2013, 07:13 AM
If what was is going on Syria was happening in Saudi Arabia how would the West respond. I guess we would get involved somehow.
Well, you don't have to go far away...
Arab Spring was ready to blossom in Bahrain too, but it was violently supressed by a foreign force on territory of sovereign state. Do you see anything in Western media about that?

Surenas
02-06-2013, 07:14 AM
There were many warnings against the transfer of SAMs, Scuds, AT missiles… But the media put the emphasis on CWs.

In essence, its quite ironic to go on the offensive in order to prevent others getting their hands on defensive weapons.

Camera
02-06-2013, 07:16 AM
Well, you don't have to go far away...
Arab Spring was ready to blossom in Bahrain too, but it was violently supressed by a foreign force on territory of sovereign state. Do you see anything in Western media about that?

It's hardly comparable: some 70 killed in few days vs 70,000 killed in Syria.

Laker1
02-06-2013, 07:17 AM
In essence, its quite ironic to go on the offensive in order to prevent others getting their hands on defensive weapons.

But they are weapons that can limit our AF over Lebanon and gathering intelligence is very important,not to mention the ability to bomb targers in case of a war.

Camera
02-06-2013, 07:19 AM
In essence, its quite ironic to go on the offensive in order to prevent others getting their hands on defensive weapons.

I don't understand your reasoning: it's a terror group that should have been already disarmed. Besides, in Hezbollah doctrine, defensive weapons have only one role: protecting rocket launchers in order to prolongate the lapse of time they continue to shell cities.

Camera
02-06-2013, 07:20 AM
Car bomb targets military complex in SyriaOpposition group reports several government troops killed in Palmyra blast

BEIRUT (AP) — Activists say a car bomb has exploded near a Syrian military complex in the central province of Homs, killing several people.

The Britain-based Observatory for Human Rights says the blast Wednesday morning in the city of Palmyra targeted a compound that houses a military intelligence branch and a state security agency.

The group says several regime troops were killed in bombing, which was followed by heavy clashes between rebels and government soldiers guarding the compound.

Syrian authorities have not confirmed the attack. There was no immediate claim of responsibility.

Car bombs targeting state institutions have been a hallmark of Islamic militants fighting alongside Syrian rebels aiming to topple President Bashar Assad.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/car-bomb-targets-military-complex-in-syria/

tanks_alot
02-06-2013, 07:21 AM
In essence, its quite ironic to go on the offensive in order to prevent others getting their hands on defensive weapons.

When "others", are a terror organization that could try to down a jet (regardless of the debade of wheter they could use them or not) while firing thousends of rockets on cities, than no, it's not very ironic.

Flamming_Python
02-06-2013, 07:40 AM
It's hardly comparable: some 70 killed in few days vs 70,000 killed in Syria.

I'm sure that the opening few days of the rebellion in Syria yielded barely more deaths.
The Saudis simply showed the Syrians how its done with their efficient repression, and quick brutal actions. The fact that the media there was blacked out and barely a whimper made it into the tycoon-controlled Western press helped matters even more surely.

Camera
02-06-2013, 07:44 AM
I'm sure that the opening few days of the rebellion in Syria yielded barely more deaths.
The Saudis simply showed the Syrians how its done with their efficient repression, and quick brutal actions. The fact that the media there was blacked out and barely a whimper made it into the tycoon-controlled Western press helped matters even more surely.

The model for the Syrians to follow was not KSA but the oppression of the protestors in Iran.

Flamming_Python
02-06-2013, 07:47 AM
The model for the Syrians to follow was not KSA but the oppression of the protestors in Iran.

KSA still showed everyone how its done though.

Hisroyalhighness
02-06-2013, 07:48 AM
No Syria Settlement Prospects Yet - Russian Deputy FM (http://en.rian.ru/world/20130206/179252852.html)

ROME, February 6 (RIA Novosti) - No prospects of settlement to the Syrian crisis can be seen yet, a deputy Russian foreign minister has said.

“Unfortunately, no prospects [for Syrian settlement] are seen and one of the reasons is our western partners do not properly work with the [country's] opposition,” Gennady Gatilov told RIA Novosti in Rome, where he is on a visit, on Tuesday.

“The task is to achieve political settlement of the Syrian crisis, to persuade both sides to sit down to the negotiating table and start searching for ways to solve the problems their country is facing, and ultimately start determining its future,” Gatilov said.
Russia has faced strong international criticism over its refusal to back UN sanctions against Syria, its last ally in the Arab world, over what it called the pro-rebel bias (http://en.rian.ru/russia/20121221/178312101.html) of some resolutions proposed by western nations.

Moscow denies it is backing President Bashar al-Assad and says it is concerned the Syrian president’s enforced departure would only worsen the conflict.

At least 60,000 people have been killed in Syria’s conflict since March 2011, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay has said, citing new analysis released by the UN in early January.

BitnikGr
02-06-2013, 07:49 AM
It's hardly comparable: some 70 killed in few days vs 70,000 killed in Syria.
Maybe I didn't understand him correctly and he was talking only about the current situation in Syria...
"Opening" stages of both events were basically the same, however. Thus it's a good example that we don't get involved based on number of casualties, but based solely on geo-political interests. So, I hardly believe that we would involved if S. Arabian Army was to finish the opposition off ASAP and if by some reason that wouldn't be possible and it would led to thousands of rebels, Army personnel and civilians get killed, then we actually would back up Saudi Royal Family and quickly name all others as "terrorists" and "axis of evil".

PS: We = the West.

Camera
02-06-2013, 07:58 AM
Maybe I didn't understand him correctly and he was talking only about the current situation in Syria...
"Opening" stages of both events were basically the same, however. Thus it's a good example that we don't get involved based on number of casualties, but based solely on geo-political interests. So, I hardly believe that we would involved if S. Arabian Army was to finish the opposition off ASAP and if by some reason that wouldn't be possible and it would led to thousands of rebels, Army personnel and civilians get killed, then we actually would back up Saudi Royal Family and quickly name all others as "terrorists" and "axis of evil".

PS: We = the West.

It's all hypothetical as there were no Arab spring unrests in KSA. Nevertheless, we deepened to much indeed on KSA oil.
Assad case is also particular, because we accumulated many griefs against him.

kalerab
02-06-2013, 08:19 AM
Most young Saudis I've met in the West are really not so bad, actually they always seemed like friendly, liberal, open-minded people.
I think the problem is their stiffling, backwards oligarchy/aristocracy, that rules with absolute power and justifies its rule with Islam, Sharia and ultra-conservatism.

Saudis living in west are usully from rich families. Other parts of KSA have deep tribal connections and are completely different and surely wouldn't say to you upon asking why are they drinking vodka while proclaiming to be muslims that Allah doesn't see me here

BitnikGr
02-06-2013, 08:48 AM
It's all hypothetical as there were no Arab spring unrests in KSA. Nevertheless, we deepened to much indeed on KSA oil.
Assad case is also particular, because we accumulated many griefs against him.
There was in Bahrain, thou. And SA boot smashed it. And we are pretending to look in other direction and whistling indiferently... that's not "hypothetical". That's the reality.

Camera
02-06-2013, 08:52 AM
There was in Bahrain, thou. And SA boot smashed it. And we are pretending to look in other direction and whistling indiferently... that's not "hypothetical". That's the reality.

True, but as I said the extent was small, it ended very quickly, and it was shadowed in the media by much more ample confrontations that occurred simultanuously in Libya, Syria and Yemen.

Acheron
02-06-2013, 09:22 AM
But they are weapons that can limit our AF over Lebanon and gathering intelligence is very important,not to mention the ability to bomb targers in case of a war.

Since when did Israel legally obtain the right to fly military airplanes over their neighbours airspaces as they please (in peace time or in war)? The very fact that Israel (as well as other countries) flagrantly and regularly violate foreign airspaces is a worrying development.

Anyway, Lebanon (yes Lebanon, since Hezbollah is part of the government of that nation) has just as much right to defend its territory from Israeli military incursions as Israel has to defend itself from attacks. Presenting Israel's concerns as having primacy is nothing short of blind nationalism and chauvinism.

BitnikGr
02-06-2013, 09:25 AM
Presenting Israel's concerns as having primacy is nothing short of blind nationalism and chauvinism.
Taking into account a size of the country, it can be also a matter of survival for them.

Flamming_Python
02-06-2013, 09:27 AM
Presenting Israel's concerns as having primacy is nothing short of blind nationalism and chauvinism.

x2

Of course they have the right to ensure their security and so on, but so does everybody else in the region.

Camera
02-06-2013, 09:27 AM
Since when did Israel legally obtain the right to fly military airplanes over their neighbours airspaces as they please (in peace time or in war)? The very fact that Israel (as well as other countries) flagrantly and regularly violate foreign airspaces is a worrying development.

Anyway, Lebanon (yes Lebanon, since Hezbollah is part of the government of that nation) has just as much right to defend its territory from Israeli military incursions as Israel has to defend itself from attacks. Presenting Israel's concerns as having primacy is nothing short of blind nationalism and chauvinism.

Lebanon did not disarm Hezbollah in conformity to UNSCR 1701. That's the reason it lives with IAF flights over its territory.

Laker1
02-06-2013, 09:28 AM
Since when did Israel legally obtain the right to fly military airplanes over their neighbours airspaces as they please (in peace time or in war)? The very fact that Israel (as well as other countries) flagrantly and regularly violate foreign airspaces is a worrying development.

Anyway, Lebanon (yes Lebanon, since Hezbollah is part of the government of that nation) has just as much right to defend its territory from Israeli military incursions as Israel has to defend itself from attacks. Presenting Israel's concerns as having primacy is nothing short of blind nationalism and chauvinism.

Since Hezbollah's arming with tens of thousands of rockets and missiles that their target is Israel...when Hezbollah will be disarmed it will be the end of the flights. We would prefer not to fly...you know...it costs money to send planes...if we could give up on sending them,it would be better.

tanks_alot
02-06-2013, 09:31 AM
Anyway, Lebanon (yes Lebanon, since Hezbollah is part of the government of that nation) has just as much right to defend its territory from Israeli military incursions as Israel has to defend itself from attacks. Presenting Israel's concerns as having primacy is nothing short of blind nationalism and chauvinism.

Israel will do anything it can in order to prevent a terrorist organization, which his main strategy is bombarding civilians, from getting advanced weapons.

You can call it what you like, but it is what it is.

Steak-Sauce
02-06-2013, 09:35 AM
Since when did Israel legally obtain the right to fly military airplanes over their neighbours airspaces as they please (in peace time or in war)? The very fact that Israel (as well as other countries) flagrantly and regularly violate foreign airspaces is a worrying development.

1. What other countries?
2. Terrorism originating in these countries against Israel and Israeli citizens is - and has been for a long time already - a worrying development.

Camera
02-06-2013, 09:35 AM
x2

Of course they have the right to ensure their security and so on, but so does everybody else in the region.

The fact that Hezbollah took control of the Lebanese gov just severs the case. This and the non disarmament of Hezbollah make Lebanon as a whole a legitimate target for the IDF if a new conflict erupts.

kalerab
02-06-2013, 09:37 AM
Since when did Israel legally obtain the right to fly military airplanes over their neighbours airspaces as they please (in peace time or in war)? The very fact that Israel (as well as other countries) flagrantly and regularly violate foreign airspaces is a worrying development.

Anyway, Lebanon (yes Lebanon, since Hezbollah is part of the government of that nation) has just as much right to defend its territory from Israeli military incursions as Israel has to defend itself from attacks. Presenting Israel's concerns as having primacy is nothing short of blind nationalism and chauvinism.

Lebanon or illegal militia? Those two are not one and the same.

Surenas
02-06-2013, 09:41 AM
Lebanon or illegal militia? Those two are not one and the same.

Fact is that Lebanon enjoys external sovereignty.

gresh
02-06-2013, 09:41 AM
Fighting erupts in Damascus as rebels launch offensive

(*******) - Heavy fighting erupted in Damascus on Wednesday as rebels launched an offensive against President Bashar al-Assad's forces, breaking a lull in the conflict, opposition activists said.


Assad's forces also came under attack in the east of the country, where a suicide car bomb struck a military intelligence compound in the city of Palmyra, causing dozens of casualties, they said.


Authorities in Damascus closed the main Abbasid Square and the Fares al-Khoury thoroughfare as fighters attacked roadblocks and fortifications with rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.


"The areas of Jobar, Zamalka, al-Zablatani and parts of Qaboun and the ring road have become a battleground," activist Fida Mohammad said from the district of Qaboun.


Another activist said an army tank stationed at the main al-Kabbas roadblock on the ring road had been destroyed. Residents reported explosions across the east and north of the capital.


In Jobar, a working-class Sunni Muslim area adjacent to Abbasid Square, mosque speakers chanted "God is Greatest" in support of opposition fighters who attacked roadblocks in the neighborhood, activists said.


They said tanks stationed on the edge of the central district of Midan, just outside the walls of Old Damascus, shelled southern districts of the city.


Syrian state television said: "Our noble army is continuing its operations against the terrorists in Irbeen, Zamalka and Harasta and Sbeineg, destroying the criminal lairs."


Assad's symbols of power came under attack in Palmyra, 220 km (140 miles) northeast of Damascus, on the main road to the oil-producing east of the country.

http://www.*******.com/article/2013/02/06/us-syria-crisis-damscus-idUSBRE9150BD20130206

r.e.u.t.e.r.s.

kalerab
02-06-2013, 09:45 AM
Fact is that Lebanon enjoys external sovereignty.

De jure? Yes. De facto? No.

Camera
02-06-2013, 10:40 AM
Heavy fighting erupts in Syria after suicide bomb

By REUTER$
02/06/2013 16:46



Clashes follow a suicide car bomb attack on a military intelligence compound; rebels launch offensive, breaking temporary lull.

AMMAN - Heavy fighting erupted in Damascus on Wednesday as rebels launched an offensive against President Bashar Assad's forces, breaking a lull in the conflict, opposition activists said.

Assad's forces also came under attack in the east of the country, where a suicide car bomb struck a military intelligence compound in the city of Palmyra, causing dozens of casualties, they said.

Authorities in Damascus closed the main Abbasid Square and the Fares al-Khoury thoroughfare as fighters attacked roadblocks and fortifications with rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.

"The areas of Jobar, Zamalka, al-Zablatani and parts of Qaboun and the ring road have become a battleground," activist Fida Mohammad said from the district of Qaboun.

Another activist said an army tank stationed at the main al-Kabbas roadblock on the ring road had been destroyed. Residents reported explosions across the east and north of the capital.

CONTINUED: http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=302346

prince99x
02-06-2013, 10:49 AM
Oh ooooo u people can't believe what news had reached me from Damascus,simply its raining fire on fsa positions south in the countryside,that's explains the so called new offence on Damascus.They are pathetic they think Damascus a small easy target oh they will never even enter it because its people are a powerful supporting environment for the SAA.However u don't understand arabic but if u could and u watched Alarabia today u will not stop laughing for hours,they are so doomed again,i think this the 3rd time in a row trying to attack Damascus.They are like this

Damascus liberation Scane No.1879

Action.

kalerab
02-06-2013, 11:16 AM
al-Arabiya is opposition Dunnia. No point in watching them, just bunch of bollocks. Though both sides confirm heavy fighting in Damasc

Vorph
02-06-2013, 12:10 PM
Operation Damascus Volcano: The final assault to take the great capital... take 3

kalerab
02-06-2013, 12:45 PM
Syria: the former English teacher turned Aleppo's female sniper


Her fame has spread throughout Aleppo. Her comrades have nicknamed her 'Guevara', but to many of the city's residents she is known simply as: 'the female sniper'.

Standing stock still, her finger suspended over the trigger, she stared through the sniper sight of her Belgian FN rifle. Her view framed by the jagged concrete edges of the fist-sized hole that has been cut into the wall of her hideout on one of the most dangerous front lines in Aleppo, Guevara, named after the revolutionary, watched the enemy – government soldiers – moving along the other side of the street.
"I like fighting. When I see that one of my friends in my katiba [rebel division] has been killed, I feel that I have to hold a weapon and take my revenge," she said.
Dressed in green khaki trousers, a grey jumper dress, tight fitting hijab and a camouflage combat jacket, Guevara, 36, cleaned and loaded her gun, sitting in a half demolished building just metres from where government troops patrol.
Despite the war, she was immaculate – eyebrows perfectly plucked, blusher and a little eyeliner. Small leather boots with heels, and a gold bracelet are touches of her feminine side.
A female fighter in Syria's conservative Muslim society is rare, often not considered proper behaviour for a woman. But Guevara commands the respect of her fellow fighters – a group of some 30 men and boys, some as young as 16.
It is not easy to be a sniper, she explained. "You have to be quick, careful and smart not to let them shoot you.
"And you need to be patient. I wait for hours at a time"


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9845535/Syria-the-former-English-teacher-turned-Aleppos-female-sniper.html

Vorph
02-06-2013, 12:57 PM
That story reeks of propaganda and something immediately hit me when I saw it;


A Syrian of Palestinian origin, Guevara first learned how to use a gun and operate in a war, in a military training camp in Lebanon run by the Palestinian militant faction Hamas.

What is a mother of two doing in a weapons camp run by a terrorist organisation?

kalerab
02-06-2013, 01:43 PM
Hamas has presence in many Palestinian refugee camps. For exmaple Baddawi camp is one such. After Nahr al-Bared Hamas gained popularity in those camps because PLO (Fatah) supported Lebanese army.

Climber
02-06-2013, 01:54 PM
Since when did Israel legally obtain the right to fly military airplanes over their neighbours airspaces as they please (in peace time or in war)? The very fact that Israel (as well as other countries) flagrantly and regularly violate foreign airspaces is a worrying development.

Anyway, Lebanon (yes Lebanon, since Hezbollah is part of the government of that nation) has just as much right to defend its territory from Israeli military incursions as Israel has to defend itself from attacks. Presenting Israel's concerns as having primacy is nothing short of blind nationalism and chauvinism.

can you explain me the bolded part, because is a little confusing................I wanted to answer you but that is confusing.

gresh
02-06-2013, 03:23 PM
Syrian rebels to open offices in Washington, New York

United Nations diplomats said Tuesday that the Syrian National Coalition is set to open offices in Washington, D.C., and New York City, as it prepares for meetings of Syrian opposition leaders with U.S. and U.N. officials.
Najib Ghadbian, an associate professor of political science and Middle East studies at the University of Arkansas, would head the New York office, and Oubab Khalil, a realtor in Frisco, Texas, would head the Washington office, the diplomats said Tuesday, who spoke on condition of anonymity since the expansion has not yet been made public, the Associated Press reports.
The purpose of the New York office would be to foster communication with the U.N. Security Council, which has long been divided over Syria’s conflict that has killed an estimated 60,000 people, ******* reports.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/6/syrian-rebels-open-offices-washington-new-york/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS

Siempre_Leal
02-06-2013, 05:18 PM
Come on guys lets not de-rail the thread...


Syria's Kurds Try to Balance Security and Alliances


ERBIL, IRAQ — Syria’s Kurds have mostly escaped prolonged bouts of direct conflict in the country’s civil war, but with rebel units pushing east toward the resource-rich Kurdish heartland, Kurdish militias proliferating and calls for greater autonomy growing, this may not remain the case.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/07/world/middleeast/syrias-kurds-try-to-balance-security-and-alliances.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Vorph
02-06-2013, 05:42 PM
Hamas has presence in many Palestinian refugee camps. For exmaple Baddawi camp is one such. After Nahr al-Bared Hamas gained popularity in those camps because PLO (Fatah) supported Lebanese army.


Yeah but the Hamas facility she visited is described as a "military training camp", if it was a refugee camp, they'd surely say that instead, that's the way I see it at least. Telegraph isn't the only news source for that story to use that description either.

themacedonian
02-06-2013, 05:44 PM
Syrian Islamists might not be "directed" by foreign elements but do seem to be operating with similar timing.

Camera
02-06-2013, 06:07 PM
Murderer on prison furlough escapes into Syria

By BEN HARTMAN (http://www.jpost.com/Authors/AuthorPage.aspx?id=34)
LAST UPDATED: 02/05/2013 13:02




2 men arrested for abetting Muhammed Yassin's escape across border; was serving 20-year sentence for stabbing man to death.



A convicted murderer slipped across the northern border into strife-torn Syria last night while on a prison furlough, police reported Tuesday morning.


Muhammed Yassin, 23, was serving a 20-year-sentence at Hermon Prison in the north for the 2006 murder of Duhadi Arsawan, whom he stabbed to death during an argument at a gas station near the village of Tamra.

On Monday Yassin left prison on his third furlough, meant to be 12 hours spent with his family. Some hours later relatives arrived at the prison and told authorities they did not know where Yassin was and that they feared he might try to escape.


Not long after that, IDF troops noticed a group of men on the border and sent soldiers to cordon off the area. They also called the police border security unit, which sent a team to the area.


CONTINUED: http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=302146

Paya
02-06-2013, 07:22 PM
Operation Damascus Volcano: The final assault to take the great capital... take 3
I sincerely doubt that they seriously think that they can take Damascus by storm. The idea is probably to tie up the best Army units in the Damascus countryside, and prevent them from aiding their beleaguered comrades in Aleppo.

jokuvaan
02-06-2013, 07:45 PM
It's so big and dense city that it cannot be taken with any "one move assault", it's more like a moving rubik's cube, now turning into next position. If there ever was a winter break, now it's over and rebels seem to have new non-Syrian sourced weapons.

Laworkerbee
02-06-2013, 08:29 PM
Clinton: Syrian rebels getting ‘messages’ from Pakistan region known as Qaeda haven


About halfway down a New York Times’ story on Hillary Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state, the paper reports a disturbing new detail about the Syrian opposition. According to Clinton, rebels in Syria have been receiving “messages” from a part of Pakistan where al-Qaeda’s core leaders are believed to be hiding out:

She added: “Having said all that, [Syrian leader Bashar] Assad is still killing. The opposition is increasingly being represented by Al Qaeda extremist elements.” She also said that the opposition was getting messages from the ungoverned areas in Pakistan where some of the Qaeda leadership was believed to be hiding — a development she called “deeply distressing.”

It’s no secret that, during the course of the now two-year conflict in Syria, some very nasty rebel groups have emerged there. Some of those groups profess extreme and violent ideologies; one prominent rebel group, Jabhat al-Nusra, is reportedly linked to al-Qaeda’s Iraq-based branch.

But direct communication between Syrian rebels and the core al-Qaeda leadership holed up in Pakistan would be potentially far more significant for two reasons.

First, this would suggest that some rebels have already aligned themselves with al-Qaeda’s global jihad movement, which they could pursue in all sorts of awful ways if and when the civil war ends. That bodes very poorly for post-Assad Syria, with groups like al-Nusra a potential threat to more than just Syrians.

Second, it’s a bad sign because, after several bruising years for al-Qaeda, the group could renew its reach through a potential Syrian proxy. The Washington Post’s Greg Miller and Joby Warrick reported this weekend on why U.S. counterterrorism officials are so worried about Jabhat al-Nusra’s links to al-Qaeda:

Al-Nusra, as it is known, was linked to suicide attacks on Syrian security installations last year that also killed dozens of civilians. Unlike rival groups, it has called attention to its al-Qaeda ties and is thought to have attracted as many as 10,000 fighters. Its short-term objective — the ouster of Assad — puts it in uncomfortable alignment with U.S. interests. But U.S. intelligence officials said they are gravely concerned that al-Nusra militants, including some who hold western passports, might move elsewhere in the Middle East or into Europe when the rebellion in Syria ends.

They are a “highly effective opposition force,” a senior U.S. intelligence official said of the group, which seeks to impose Islamic rule. “If they don’t have a role to play [in a future Syrian government] where does that capability disperse?”

In other words, what do these fighters, who now have fighting experience and possibly even a line to al-Qaeda’s central command, do once the civil war ends? It’s a scary question.




http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/02/04/clinton-syrian-rebels-getting-messages-from-pakistan-region-known-as-qaeda-haven/

themacedonian
02-06-2013, 08:48 PM
As Syria has been compared with Afghanistan in the 1990s then Al Nusra is the new Taliban.

Supporting Al Nusra now is like supporting the Taliban drive to Kabul. Assad might end up like the Northern Alliance which from very early had Russian and Indian support.

themacedonian
02-06-2013, 08:49 PM
Clinton: Syrian rebels getting ‘messages’ from Pakistan region known as Qaeda haven

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/02/04/clinton-syrian-rebels-getting-messages-from-pakistan-region-known-as-qaeda-haven/

If that was not Clinton the comment would have been referred to as a conspiracy theory.

Vorph
02-06-2013, 09:30 PM
I sincerely doubt that they seriously think that they can take Damascus by storm. The idea is probably to tie up the best Army units in the Damascus countryside, and prevent them from aiding their beleaguered comrades in Aleppo.

Well you say that, but judging from the statements made by the FSA from the initial announcement of Damascus Volcano, they very much are (or were) intending to take the city by storming into it. The best units of the SAA, namely the Republican Guard and 4th Armoured Division are not going to abandon the urban areas they are there to protect and the rebels barely attack in the countryside anyway, so that probably wouldn't work. All I can say is if the elite units end up performing as "well" as the other lesser units have then I'll facepalm until my head bleeds...


Clinton: Syrian rebels getting ‘messages’ from Pakistan region known as Qaeda haven




http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/02/04/clinton-syrian-rebels-getting-messages-from-pakistan-region-known-as-qaeda-haven/

Oh my Good God.. really? Hey sky, the sun is yellow!

I love the way the media is acting like Al-Nusra just popped up middle of last year, they've been part of the chaos from the beginning...

PapaDoc91
02-06-2013, 09:57 PM
Meanwhile in Syria............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRfTnWhgBW8

Paya
02-06-2013, 11:55 PM
Well you say that, but judging from the statements made by the FSA from the initial announcement of Damascus Volcano, they very much are (or were) intending to take the city by storming into it.
Guerrilla armies, rebel groups, and the like always talk big. While those more versed know that taking Damascus is no easy task, the goal here is to sow panic among Assad's supporters in the capital, as well as to encourage their own. But I truly doubt they believe their own propaganda.


The best units of the SAA, namely the Republican Guard and 4th Armoured Division are not going to abandon the urban areas they are there to protect and the rebels barely attack in the countryside anyway, so that probably wouldn't work.
When I say "countryside", I mean "suburbs" like Daraya, which are actually villages and towns quite separate from the capital itself.

Genotype
02-07-2013, 12:14 AM
Guerrilla armies, rebel groups, and the like always talk big. While those more versed know that taking Damascus is no easy task, the goal here is to sow panic among Assad's supporters in the capital, as well as to encourage their own. But I truly doubt they believe their own propaganda.

When I say "countryside", I mean "suburbs" like Daraya, which are actually villages and towns quite separate from the capital itself.

Agree actually.

The rebels have actually been surprisingly intelligent in their prosecution of this war, though whether that is by accident or design we can't know. After "Damascus Volcano", the elite units of the Syrian government like the Republican Guard have been tied down in Damascus keeping the capital pacified. This combined with the concentration of SAA units in the fight for Aleppo have given the opposition a free hand in many areas, including those surrounding the capital. Over the last few months we've seen areas and key bases in the hinterlands surrounding Damascus fall, like Marj al-Sultan and Hajar al-Aswad, as the defending government units are concentrated heavily inside the city.

I think eventually we'll reach an impasse though, as the largely intact and committed elite units (Republican Guard, 4th Armoured Division, civilian volunteers, shabiha) inside the city refuse to retreat and stand their ground. The opposition are having a heavy fight on their hands at the moment for example, as we've seen in Jobar, Kafr Sousa etc, as the government forces inside the city determindedly try to halt their incursions.

I wouldn't be surprised if the rebels continued to feed fighters into the city for the nuisanse value, with the real aim of keeping the security forces tied up, while looking to make realistic territorial gains elsewhere. There's far more productive battlefields going for the rebels in the north (Idlib, Aleppo) and the east (Deir Ezzor). The Syrian government is still far too strong for anything like attempting the wholesale capture of Damascus any time soon.

AgentKoba37
02-07-2013, 12:20 AM
Agree actually.

The rebels have actually been surprisingly intelligent in their prosecution of this war, though whether that is by accident or design we can't know. After "Damascus Volcano", the elite units of the Syrian government like the Republican Guard have been tied down in Damascus keeping the capital pacified. This combined with the concentration of SAA units in the fight for Aleppo have given the opposition a free hand in many areas, including those surrounding the capital. Over the last few months we've seen areas and key bases in the hinterlands surrounding Damascus fall, like Marj al-Sultan and Hajar al-Aswad, as the defending government units are concentrated heavily inside the city.



it is not so much the rebels being intelligent it's more about very good C2 work. I would say that is the key to rebels successes. You are into military strategy and you should be able to understand it. More effective, proper C2 focused on enemy weaknesses can win wars. Even when the odds are not in your favour in many respects.

C2 is not just logistics as some understand it. It is conducting multiple simultaneous operations that while may seem irrelevant individually together can swing the initiative on the battlefield in your favour supporting accomplishment of whatever strategic objectives. It is the essence of modern operational art of warfare. Can be conducted with active involvement of host partners so to speak. In this case rebels fulfill the role of host partner

Genotype
02-07-2013, 12:29 AM
it is not so much the rebels being intelligent it's more about very good C2 work. I would say that is the key to rebels successes. You are into military strategy and you should be able to understand it. More effective, proper C2 focused on enemy weaknesses can win wars. Even when the odds are not in your favour in many respects.

To be fair, I think we're talking about the same thing in different terms.

Although effective intelligence is admittedly not the same as effective C&C, it's been surprising how effective the opposition's overall strategy has been in that respect. Seeing as the rebels tend to be disparate and often disagreeing groups that sometimes have little overlap in communcation, command or strategy, I'm forced to ask whether it was design or accident.

But yes, if it was by design then the rebels C2 has been very good when enveloping Damascus.

AgentKoba37
02-07-2013, 12:35 AM
IMO C2 is handled by a third party. A true master of divide and conquer p-)

Intelligence, timely intelligence correlated from multiple sensors is key to effective C2. Only in this case C5ISR is the more proper term

Not to mention raw intel by itself would be of little value to most rebels, rebel groups and their commanders. Even those of al nusra variety with a few exceptions. They dont need intel. They need a target and simple objectives as well as clear lines of communication

Paya
02-07-2013, 03:57 AM
Agree actually.

The rebels have actually been surprisingly intelligent in their prosecution of this war, though whether that is by accident or design we can't know. After "Damascus Volcano", the elite units of the Syrian government like the Republican Guard have been tied down in Damascus keeping the capital pacified. This combined with the concentration of SAA units in the fight for Aleppo have given the opposition a free hand in many areas, including those surrounding the capital. Over the last few months we've seen areas and key bases in the hinterlands surrounding Damascus fall, like Marj al-Sultan and Hajar al-Aswad, as the defending government units are concentrated heavily inside the city.
They have come to know their enemy, his lack of initiative, aggressiveness, and skill, and are acting accordingly. And yes, the FSA might be mostly made up of rural Sunni hillbillies, but they seem to be better led than the SAA, at least on the higher levels.


I think eventually we'll reach an impasse though, as the largely intact and committed elite units (Republican Guard, 4th Armoured Division, civilian volunteers, shabiha) inside the city refuse to retreat and stand their ground. The opposition are having a heavy fight on their hands at the moment for example, as we've seen in Jobar, Kafr Sousa etc, as the government forces inside the city determindedly try to halt their incursions.
I agree, a kind of double reverse Sarajevo. A smaller, relatively poorly armed force having a foothold in the suburbs, and besieging a larger, better armed one. It boggles the mind, actually.


I wouldn't be surprised if the rebels continued to feed fighters into the city for the nuisanse value, with the real aim of keeping the security forces tied up, while looking to make realistic territorial gains elsewhere. There's far more productive battlefields going for the rebels in the north (Idlib, Aleppo) and the east (Deir Ezzor). The Syrian government is still far too strong for anything like attempting the wholesale capture of Damascus any time soon.
If ever. As those of you in the know have been saying since the beginning, it's going to be a long and bloody war.

Surenas
02-07-2013, 04:33 AM
And yes, the FSA might be mostly made up of rural Sunni hillbillies, but they seem to be better led than the SAA, at least on the higher levels.

Its the difference between relatively large conventional forces, and small units with individual tactical skills.

Paya
02-07-2013, 05:20 AM
Its the difference between relatively large conventional forces, and small units with individual tactical skills.
That's no excuse. By now the SAA should have adapted. Some units probably have, but I guess that the transition is a long one for a force without experience in either guerrilla or counter-insurgency warfare.

Mousepad
02-07-2013, 05:38 AM
That's no excuse. By now the SAA should have adapted. Some units probably have, but I guess that the transition is a long one for a force without experience in either guerrilla or counter-insurgency warfare.

My guess is that SAA seriously lacks in NCO and junior officer cadre, so they have to respond to threats with a company or battalion sized force where "up-to-date" armies could've handle it with squad or platoon. So that pretty much ties them up.

kurdman
02-07-2013, 08:31 AM
Disappointed with the FSA, young Arabs from Aleppo are joining the Kurdish People Protection Units (YPG). Some of them are Free Syrian Army (FSA) defectors and they complain about FSA treatment of civilians and they report cases of coercion and looting.

http://www.davidmeseguer.com/2013/02/06/arabs-join-kurdish-militia-in-aleppo/?fb_action_ids=10151303423494541&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210151303423494541%22%3A343304405778030%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151303423494541%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

Paya
02-07-2013, 08:39 AM
My guess is that SAA seriously lacks in NCO and junior officer cadre, so they have to respond to threats with a company or battalion sized force where "up-to-date" armies could've handle it with squad or platoon. So that pretty much ties them up.
You might be right, but somehow I feel that it has more to do with the rigid command structure and doctrines.

Early on in the war, I saw photos of a group of Syrian soldiers carrying AK-74Ms, and with night vision goggles attached to their helmets. They were patrolling the border with Lebanon, I think. That's about the only time, excluding checkpoints, that I've seen a small group of soldiers operating independently, rather than massive infantry formations supported by armor and IFVs. Although relying on photos and footage alone when judging a modus operandi of an armed force is unsavory.

Camera
02-07-2013, 10:09 AM
There is an additional reason for the rigidity of the SAA. The appointments of the commanders within this army were political (Baath) or sectarian (Alawite); loyalty to regime was the main criteria for advancement within the officers' corps rather than pure professional merit. (This phenomenon was widely spread within the Iraqi army too; most of the generals belonged to the Tikrit clan and/or were Baath members).
High ranking officers from other sects made it probably for their individual merits rather than affiliation. It is safe to presume that many of them defected and fight with the rebels. Those who command at the present are the most loyal not the most competent.

tanks_alot
02-07-2013, 10:35 AM
Initiative was not encouraged in the Syrian army's low to medium ranking commanders (let alone grunts), even before the rebellion broke out. the widespread defections probably haven't done much for the willingness of the high command to delegate responsibility.

Camera
02-07-2013, 10:46 AM
Initiative was not encouraged in the Syrian army's low to medium ranking commanders (let alone grunts), even before the rebellion broke out. the widespread defections probably haven't done much for the willingness of the high command to delegate responsibility.

They might be afraid that small units would defect or desert if they are given responsibility to operate autonomously.

Stuja
02-07-2013, 11:02 AM
Are rebels numbers increasing in some areas ?

bionic
02-07-2013, 12:03 PM
Are rebels numbers increasing in some areas ?

Hard to say, every village in Syria seems to have their own Rebel group, pro Assad guys or kurdish fighters.... with some bigger rebel groups fighting in all major provinces (supraregional?, nationwide) Aleppo, Rakka, Idlib, Hama, Homs, Damascus......
One thing is for sure as long as Assad keeps on bombing and shelling his own people and the terrorist of Shabiha and Jaysh al-Sha'bi don´t stop their marauding and murdering of Syrian civilians as long will more and more people be radicalised and will search for revenge.

Camera
02-07-2013, 04:13 PM
Panetta exposes rift with Obama over arming Syrian rebels

By BLOOMBERG, REUTER$
02/07/2013 22:04



Both outgoing US secretary of defense and military chief Dempsey testify before Senate C'tee that they supported Clinton plan to arm rebels; Syrian jets bombard Damascus in effort to halt rebel advance, 46 dead.

The Obama administration’s two top defense officials publicly acknowledged a policy disagreement with the White House over whether to send US arms to the rebels in Syria.

In congressional testimony on Thursday, US Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, who is retiring, and General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, both said they supported a plan last year by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and then-CIA Director David Petraeus to provide weapons to the rebels fighting to overthrow Syrian President Bashar Assad.

(…)

Their response to McCain’s question about whether they supported the Clinton-Petraeus plan was direct and terse.

“We do,” said Panetta. “We did,” said Dempsey.

That means the White House was presented with unified support for sending arms by the top members of Obama’s national security team outside the White House staff.

Syrian jets bomb Damascus ring road to halt rebel push

Meanwhile on Thursday, Syrian government jets bombarded the Damascus ring road in a bid to halt a rebel advance which threatens Assad's hold on the capital, insurgent commanders and opposition activists said.

Warplanes fired rockets at southern parts of the route where rebels have spent the past 36 hours overrunning army positions and road blocks encircling the heart of the city, the site of key state security and intelligence installations.

(…)

Units of Assad's elite Republican Guard based on the imposing Qasioun Mountain overlooking the capital fired artillery rounds and rockets at Jobar, an eastern neighborhood bordering the square, and at the ring road, rebel and activist sources said.


Damascus residents, long accustomed to the sounds of war, said Thursday's shelling was some of the heaviest they had heard.

"They've gone insane. All of them. They're insane," one central Damascus resident said by telephone.

Activists said 46 people had died on Thursday, mostly from heavy army bombardment on the contested neighborhoods of Jobar and Zamalka which are near compounds housing Alawite forces.

One rebel commander told Reuter$ the insurgents were not trying to take the capital with the current push.

"The objective is to take out the sniper positions and fortifications that form part of the regime's defense line on Damascus, not to advance too quickly without having the proper support," said Captain Islam Alloush of the Liwa al-Islam rebel unit.

Another opposition activist in Damascus said the offensive was being led by Sunni officers who had defected from the army and wanted to cut Assad's command and control lines from the center of the city to its outskirts.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=302549

Bloo
02-07-2013, 04:26 PM
Syrian air force bombing roads around Damascus to try and stall FSA advances

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4342580,00.html

Ya22
02-07-2013, 04:43 PM
Syrian air force bombing roads around Damascus to try and stall FSA advances

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4342580,00.html
Seems like something serious is happening.

geolocator
02-07-2013, 04:58 PM
Seems like something serious is happening.
Yes, according to ria.ru, SAA squeezes them away from Damascus second day in a row and controls the road to Alleppo now.
They advance, but from Damascus. At the same time human bombs are more active and more victims now.

From other news is the U.S. proposal to Russia to insure Syrian CW safe by common efforts, if Assad's regime falls down.

Ya22
02-07-2013, 05:19 PM
Yes, according to ria.ru, SAA squeezes them away from Damascus second day in a row and controls the road to Alleppo now.
They advance, but from Damascus. At the same time human bombs are more active and more victims now.

From other news is the U.S. proposal to Russia to insure Syrian CW safe by common efforts, if Assad's regime falls down.

I feel sad for the civilians who are dying as we speak from bombings from the air :(

Camera
02-07-2013, 05:20 PM
Yes, according to ria.ru, SAA squeezes them away from Damascus second day in a row and controls the road to Alleppo now.
They advance, but from Damascus. At the same time human bombs are more active and more victims now.

From other news is the U.S. proposal to Russia to insure Syrian CW safe by common efforts, if Assad's regime falls down.

I should have copyrighted the idea. :)
This is something constructive Russia could accomplish. Assad should understand that it is in his best interest to get rid of his CW by asking Russia to keep them safe for him.

Rebel44CZ
02-07-2013, 05:35 PM
Yes, according to ria.ru, SAA squeezes them away from Damascus second day in a row and controls the road to Alleppo now.
They advance, but from Damascus. At the same time human bombs are more active and more victims now.

From other news is the U.S. proposal to Russia to insure Syrian CW safe by common efforts, if Assad's regime falls down.

I really doubt that SAA is in control of any road going all the way from Damascus to Aleppo.

kalerab
02-07-2013, 05:59 PM
Yes, according to ria.ru, SAA squeezes them away from Damascus second day in a row and controls the road to Alleppo now.
They advance, but from Damascus. At the same time human bombs are more active and more victims now.

From other news is the U.S. proposal to Russia to insure Syrian CW safe by common efforts, if Assad's regime falls down.

No, they don´t. Damascus-Aleppo highway is cut around Homs and all the way north from Maraat al-Numan.

jokuvaan
02-07-2013, 06:04 PM
You can sometimes detect the serious of the situation by looking at the pro-Assad propaganda and it went quite high right after the latest Damascus operation started. Fierce artillery is being explained that Assad's forces are pushing rebels out, when in reality Assad's forces are being pushed back in some parts and it's a defensive fire.

On the big picture, is nothing special yet. Interesting to see how much ammo does the rebels have this time in Damascus, push ends when ammo ends.

Meanwhile:
http://world.time.com/2013/02/07/ground-war-syrias-rebels-prepare-to-take-a-province-from-assad/

themacedonian
02-07-2013, 06:14 PM
Syrian air force bombing roads around Damascus to try and stall FSA advances

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4342580,00.html

Syrian air force will be busy defending its self maybe next week from aerial assault. All pieces are set in place.

Hisroyalhighness
02-07-2013, 07:14 PM
I should have copyrighted the idea. :)
This is something constructive Russia could accomplish. Assad should understand that it is in his best interest to get rid of his CW by asking Russia to keep them safe for him.

Good idea, but where exactly will Russia store the CWs? Inside the Tartus facility?

Spacepope
02-07-2013, 07:17 PM
Syrian air force bombing roads around Damascus to try and stall FSA advances

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4342580,00.html

Could you please post some of the relevant text? I keep clicking on the link but I keep getting an error message.

Camera
02-07-2013, 07:30 PM
Good idea, but where exactly will Russia store the CWs? Inside the Tartus facility?

Not forcefully inside the facility. They can be secured on one or two sites under Russian authority.

prince99x
02-07-2013, 07:33 PM
Syrian air force will be busy defending its self maybe next week from aerial assault. All pieces are set in place.Explain that's big and very serious talk.I didn't expect that coming form u i know u reasonable by talk .

Hisroyalhighness
02-07-2013, 07:36 PM
Not forcefully inside the facility. They can be secured on one or two sites under Russian authority.

Somehow I don't think under Russian authority will dissuade Al-Nusra or Harakat Ahrar al-Sham al-Islamiyya from attacking the site(s).

Camera
02-07-2013, 07:45 PM
Somehow I don't think under Russian authority will dissuade Al-Nusra or Harakat Ahrar al-Sham al-Islamiyya from attacking the site(s).

They can transferred to a safe place in the Alawite province.

Camera
02-07-2013, 07:46 PM
Explain that's big and very serious talk.I didn't expect that coming form u i know u reasonable by talk .

He is a fan of conspiracy theories.

mptrooper
02-07-2013, 07:56 PM
Inside Rebel-Held Prison in Aleppo
In the heart of Aleppo’s countryside lies the town of al-Rahi, a stone’s throw from the barbed wire of the border with Turkey. At its edge stands the central prison of Aleppo and its environs, a large complex guarded by teenagers whose authority comes from their shoulder-held weapons and newly sprouting beards.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politics/2013/02/rebel-held-prison-aleppo-syria.html#ixzz2KGiYz1Lw

AgentKoba37
02-07-2013, 07:57 PM
IMO unfortunately Damascus is going to be in completely in ruins before anyone emerges victorious from this conflict. Or like Lavrov said - there will be no winners in this war.

AgentKoba37
02-07-2013, 07:59 PM
Somehow I don't think under Russian authority will dissuade Al-Nusra or Harakat Ahrar al-Sham al-Islamiyya from attacking the site(s).
X2 Big stakes. These Nusra will push on thru. They are expendable asset

themacedonian
02-07-2013, 08:03 PM
He is a fan of conspiracy theories.

hehehehe. Nice.

In short I think Hezbollah might be hit for Burgas and conflict evolving into a regional war with Syria involved.

Camera
02-07-2013, 08:03 PM
IMO unfortunately Damascus is going to be in completely in ruins before anyone emerges victorious from this conflict. Or like Lavrov said - there will be no winners in this war.

Stalingrad was completely in ruin and there was still a winner.
There was a report about Assad saying to Brahimi that he won't step down even if Damascus was destroyed. He does not care really.

AgentKoba37
02-07-2013, 08:05 PM
Stalingrad was completely in ruin and there was still a winner.
There was a report about Assad saying to Brahimi that he won't step down even if Damascus was destroyed. He does not care really.

Oh yeah this can drag out even if Damascus is destroyed. Assad is not going anywhere but he is more of a hostage ;) IMO he has no choice but to stay put

Camera
02-07-2013, 08:08 PM
hehehehe. Nice.

In short I think Hezbollah might be hit for Burgas and conflict evolving into a regional war with Syria involved.

The last thing Assad needs is a regional war in addition to the civil war. Hezbollah won't start a war both for internal Lebanese policy reasons and because the Mullahs keep it in case Iran was attacked.

AgentKoba37
02-07-2013, 08:09 PM
The last thing Assad needs is a regional war in addition to the civil war. Hezbollah won't start a war both for internal Lebanese policy reasons and because the Mullahs keep it in case Iran was attacked.
I concur with Camera. Everyone is interested in keeping this more or less contained to Syria. Except maybe some jihadists.

Maximmmm
02-07-2013, 08:17 PM
I am still beyond amazement at the fact that after all this time, the SAA still has tanks that are either idling in the middle of a damn street, begging to be taken out, or worse, advancing without any support whatsoever.

I swear watching all those FSA & Jihadi vids is just like watching the first invasion of grozny. Terrible cooperation between branches of the armed forces, horrendous handling of available equipment and the same mistakes, over and over and over again.

Edit:
Also I'm surprised the SAA hasn't been youtubing every single thing it does, since the FSA and Jihadis are flooding the airwaves and pretty much winning the media war. (not that they can ever lose it in the eyes of the west, but at least for domestic purposes) Show some more operations against FSA strongholds, all the planted IED's, the ambush spots, maybe win back some Syrians hearts&minds.

AgentKoba37
02-07-2013, 08:30 PM
Sorry for offtop but IMO first invasion of Grozny was a complete setup meant to cripple Russia. The army entered in show of force but no one was prepared to fall into a trap that was set up not without help of ppl in the higher echelons of power like Berezovsky for example.

Surprisingly for many though Russian armed forces adapted and even managed to start winning. Not only that but Grozny was taken. There are numerous sources that point to the retaking of Grozny by rebels before Khasavyurt talks as another betrayal. Troops were pulled out from Grozny and many checkpoints were ordered to be dismantled. It was all very upsetting and humiliating to many. I dont know how we didnt end up in a civil war back then

One thing is clear Russian armed forces sometimes managed to prevail against oll odds even when betrayal and stabbing in the back came from your own commanders. So I would not be so quick to compare.

Sorry again for offtop.

themacedonian
02-07-2013, 08:31 PM
The last thing Assad needs is a regional war in addition to the civil war. Hezbollah won't start a war both for internal Lebanese policy reasons and because the Mullahs keep it in case Iran was attacked.

I did not say Assad or Hezbollah will start it.

McJustice
02-07-2013, 08:38 PM
Edit:
Also I'm surprised the SAA hasn't been youtubing every single thing it does, since the FSA and Jihadis are flooding the airwaves and pretty much winning the media war. (not that they can ever lose it in the eyes of the west, but at least for domestic purposes) Show some more operations against FSA strongholds, all the planted IED's, the ambush spots, maybe win back some Syrians hearts&minds.

Indeed, Something I have also been pondering.

Also in agreement with what they should be getting footage of, it's a massive propaganda war on the interwebz, and they're losing it.

Siempre_Leal
02-07-2013, 08:40 PM
The most videos Ive see are "inactive" tanks just sitting their motionless getting hit by RPG's...

Vespasian
02-07-2013, 08:42 PM
Edit:
Also I'm surprised the SAA hasn't been youtubing every single thing it does, since the FSA and Jihadis are flooding the airwaves and pretty much winning the media war. (not that they can ever lose it in the eyes of the west, but at least for domestic purposes) Show some more operations against FSA strongholds, all the planted IED's, the ambush spots, maybe win back some Syrians hearts&minds.

Well western powers support the removal of Assad, so in the western media you are going to get a lot of anti Assad propaganda for want of a better word. Plus the SAA doesn't really doesn't need to do an awful lot when the Jihadis are flooding the airwaves with video's of their own dead, and their lame attempts at propaganda.

Surenas
02-07-2013, 08:46 PM
I
Also I'm surprised the SAA hasn't been youtubing every single thing it does, since the FSA and Jihadis are flooding the airwaves and pretty much winning the media war.

I think those videos posted online by FSA, and other units, have done them more wrong than good. In the beginning most people in the west at least had some sympathy for the people who were involved in those demonstrations, which we quickly compared to a French like freedom revolution, until we saw images of bearded men shouting 'Allahu akbar' at least 20 times in every footage.

Maximmmm
02-07-2013, 09:04 PM
I think those videos posted online by FSA, and other units, have done them more wrong than good. In the beginning most people in the west at least had some sympathy for the people who were involved in those demonstrations, which we quickly compared to a French like freedom revolution, until we saw images of bearded men shouting 'Allahu akbar' at least 20 times in every footage.

Yeah good point. Nevertheless I'm still a bit surprised.

@Koba, whatever the case with the Grozny debacle (and I do agree with you), we did learn from it and most armies learn from their experiences, I'm surprised the SAA hasn't made that evolution.
And the argument that it's a low-quality army doesn't play, since, again back to grozny, most of our soldiers were 18/19 year old boys and they adapted pretty fast. (although a lot of that was due to the amazing work of the afghan vets that were still around, but that whole discussion is waaay offtop)

If anything all the masses of "alleged military supervisors" sent to Assad are doing a **** job.

AgentKoba37
02-07-2013, 09:11 PM
Yeah good point. Nevertheless I'm still a bit surprised.

If anything all the masses of "alleged military supervisors" sent to Assad are doing a **** job.

IMO there may be interest in protracting this conflict in the most unexpected places. This one will be interesting how it plays out. The most unfortunate thing though is the suffering of civilians cuaght up in this gordian knot of ambitions and competing goals

Genotype
02-07-2013, 10:17 PM
hehehehe. Nice.

In short I think Hezbollah might be hit for Burgas and conflict evolving into a regional war with Syria involved.


The last thing Assad needs is a regional war in addition to the civil war. Hezbollah won't start a war both for internal Lebanese policy reasons and because the Mullahs keep it in case Iran was attacked.

In military terms, the last thing the Syrian armed forces need is a modern military opponent yes, considering the difficulties they are having against the opposition.

However, I'm pretty sure Assad would love a nice short war with Israel right now. He'd certainly lose some much-needed conventional forces and instrastructure, but he'd be able to rally the syrians and his allies against an external threat. Even the most extreme of the sunni extremists might consider a ceasefire against the external "zionist" threat", be sure Al-Nusra and co have no love of Israel. It'd give him an opportunity to tap into the anti-Israeli sentiment in arab countries and extract more support from Iran and Hezbollah. It'd certainly draw some public opinion back towards him and be divisive for his opponents.

But this is all hypothetical, the best way for Israel to weaken Syria right now is to continue what it's been doing for the last couple of years. Don't get involved.

Genotype
02-07-2013, 10:25 PM
Could you please post some of the relevant text? I keep clicking on the link but I keep getting an error message.

It's not a very long article.


Syrian government jets bombarded the Damascus ring road on Thursday in a bid to halt a rebel advance which threatens President Bashar Assad's hold on the capital, insurgent commanders and opposition activists said.
Warplanes fired rockets at southern parts of the route where rebels have spent the past 36 hours overrunning army positions and road blocks encircling the heart of the city, the site of key state security and intelligence installations.


I've been wrong before, but I'll be surprised if the rebels successfully push the Syrian army out of Jobar. There's a lot of the Syrian army's elite formations arrayed against them right now, the government's forces are concentrated in Damascus proper.

Saying that, the government's laissez-faire attitude has let the opposition push them out of the Damascus hinterlands and get surrounded in their own capital. Which asks the same old questions about their desire to take the offensive and prosecute the war properly. They can generally be relied upon to respond with artillery and airstrikes when an area/position is captured, but hardly ever a ground offensive to recapture the terrain.

Mousepad
02-07-2013, 10:35 PM
In military terms, the last thing the Syrian armed forces need is a modern military opponent yes, considering the difficulties they are having against the opposition.

However, I'm pretty sure Assad would love a nice short war with Israel right now. He'd certainly lose some much-needed conventional forces and instrastructure, but he'd be able to rally the syrians and his allies against an external threat. Even the most extreme of the sunni extremists might consider a ceasefire against the external "zionist" threat", be sure Al-Nusra and co have no love of Israel. It'd give him an opportunity to tap into the anti-Israeli sentiment in arab countries and extract more support from Iran and Hezbollah. It'd certainly draw some public opinion back towards him and be divisive for his opponents.

But this is all hypothetical, the best way for Israel to weaken Syria right now is to continue what it's been doing for the last couple of years. Don't get involved.

Thing is that conflict with Iz may/will end up with very unexpected result, not a propaganda worthy land war were expendable Syrian hero grunts struggle with ebil Zionist Merkavas but a bunker-buster bomb on Assad himself in maybe 1-st or 2-nd day of conflict, sneaky Jooz tend to aim for the head.

Genotype
02-07-2013, 10:45 PM
Thing is that conflict with Iz may/will end up with very unexpected result, not a propaganda worthy land war were expendable Syrian hero grunts struggle with ebil Zionist Merkavas but a bunker-buster bomb on Assad himself in maybe 1-st or 2-nd day of conflict, sneaky Jooz tend to aim for the head.

If Assad survives though, he'd come out in a stronger position against his internal enemies despite any material losses.

And sadly I'm pretty sure he's smart enough not to be the one doing any dying for Syria.

But as I said, hypothetical discussion, it's not gonna happen.

Genotype
02-07-2013, 10:51 PM
Interesting article, apologies if already posted.

http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2013/2/6/syria-analysis-someone-is-arming-the-insurgentsand-its-worki.html




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Ww8XCBCmI&feature=player_embedded

A Free Syrian Army member fires an RPG-22 on 12 January in Busr al Harir in Daraa Province

In mid-January, prominent blogger Eliot Higgins (http://www.twitter.com/BrownMoses), several journalists, and I noticed an influx in new weaponry into Syria, specifically in Daraa Province in the south. Higgins collected the videos (http://brown-moses.blogspot.com/2013/01/evidence-of-multiple-foreign-weapon.html) in a blog post and came to a remarkable conclusion --- the weapons, which included several kinds of RPGs, recoilless rifles, and grenade launchers, were all designed,manufactured, and/or heavily used in the former Yugoslavia, and none of them are part of the Syrian military ****nal.

Someone --- a current player? a new one? --- was giving a big boost in weapons to the insurgents.

Since then, the Free Syrian Army has succeeded with a series of surprise attacks, capturing several towns, border crossings, and roads. They then repelled tank convoys, airstrikes, infantry invasions, and even paratroopers (http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2013/1/14/syria-live-coverage-worries-about-disorganised-insurgency-an.html#2152).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x30qnqzepVI&feature=player_embedded

A Free Syrian Army fighter fires an M60 Recoilless Rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_recoilless_gun) in Busr al Harir on 17 January

In the last week, opposition fighters may have overrun nearly one-third of Daraa city. Regime convoys have rushed towards the city, apparently to turn back the surprise advance.

Once again, the insurgents have used weapons that were not made in Syria. In this video, a fighter holds a M79 Osa RPG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SBHr7XHnIxM

In the following video, insurgents, firing from a bedroom, use a RBG-6 40mm grenade launcher to strike at an Assad military installation . The weapon was designed in South Africa (http://www.weapon.ge/index.php?sel=1&id=311&l=en), but this appears to be a weapon licenced by a company in Croatia (http://www.aalan.hr/Product-Catalogue/tabid/3622/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/11520/Multiple-Grenade-Launcher-Type-RBG-6-cal40x46mm.aspx):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq3nha2-6hM&feature=player_embedded
The weapons are being brought in from outside Syria and put into the hands of Free Syrian Army units, rather than the Islamist Jabhat al-Nusra or other factions distrusted by the international coalition supporting the opposition.

Eliot Higgins has now found evidence (http://brown-moses.blogspot.com/2013/02/foreign-smuggled-weapons-spread.html) that the new weapons have made their way into Damascus, Hama Province, and Aleppo Province. This video shows an M79 rocket launcher in the Sheikh Saeed district, recently taken by insurgents, in the south of Aleppo city.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdJq7-cNx0Q&feature=player_embedded

Higgins explains the significance of the military figure in the clip:

The man shown in the video is Colonel Abdul-Jabbar Mohammed Aqidi, reportedly the former commander of the Free Syrian Army in Aleppo Province. He is now part of the recently- formed Supreme Military Council, acting as one of six representatives for the Northern Front.
Maybe more tellingly, he is one of two members of the armament committee for the Northern Front, with this video being one of a series from his recent visit to opposition forces in Aleppo.


On Monday, the insurgents launched an offensive against a military barracks (http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2013/2/5/syria-live-coverage-minister-of-defense-we-cannot-be-broken.html#1556) in the north of Aleppo city. Though we did not see any weapons that were definitively obtained from outside Syria, the fighters brought a significant amount of firepower down on the barracks, with reports that they have captured the building.

The new offensives, and other insurgents attacks around the city, suggest that this is part of a new, coordinated strategy to hit Assad strongholds and weaken his hold on Syria's largest city.

Then there are the attacks on Damascus International Airport and the military bases that surround it. While other assaults have been beaten back, those of the past week have been relatively successful. Video shows an RPG-22 at the scene, in the hands of the Free Syrian Army:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZLf0BiAwE8&feature=player_embedded

While foreign weapons have been seen in Syria, we have not encountered them on this scale. All this suggests a new, organised, and well-funded effort is under way to ensure that "moderate" fighters are capturing territory and weakening the Assad regime.

It is too early to tell whether there are enough weapons to make a long-term impact. None of them be used as an effective counter to Assad's primary threat, his fighter jets. However, if this is an experiment to see a surge in armament makes a difference, the answer is clear.


Someone on here mentioned the sudden appearance of ex-Yugoslav weapons in the opposition hands, but I can't find their post to quote em...might have been themacedonian.

Rumour has it (and I must say again this only the rumour) that this is all from a weapon shipment funded by Kuwaitis, brought in from the former Yugoslavia and distributed to the FSA. As mentioned in the article, this weapon stockpile is deliberately being targeted at the more moderate fighters and clearly being kept awake from the like of Jabhat al Nusra.

Rebel44CZ
02-07-2013, 10:59 PM
In military terms, the last thing the Syrian armed forces need is a modern military opponent yes, considering the difficulties they are having against the opposition.

However, I'm pretty sure Assad would love a nice short war with Israel right now. He'd certainly lose some much-needed conventional forces and instrastructure, but he'd be able to rally the syrians and his allies against an external threat. Even the most extreme of the sunni extremists might consider a ceasefire against the external "zionist" threat", be sure Al-Nusra and co have no love of Israel. It'd give him an opportunity to tap into the anti-Israeli sentiment in arab countries and extract more support from Iran and Hezbollah. It'd certainly draw some public opinion back towards him and be divisive for his opponents.

But this is all hypothetical, the best way for Israel to weaken Syria right now is to continue what it's been doing for the last couple of years. Don't get involved.

1. I dont think even war against israel would convince most rebels to join forces with government (and rebels sure as hell wouldnt let army take over territory they are currently holding).
2. Any serious incident which would provoke Israel enough to start major operation against Syria would wipe out Syrian airforce in a few days - and airfoce is pretty important for syrian government in its fight against rebels.

So I think that Syrian government wont provoke such action, because risk is too high.

Genotype
02-07-2013, 11:16 PM
1. I dont think even war against israel would convince most rebels to join forces with government (and rebels sure as hell wouldnt let army take over territory they are currently holding).
2. Any serious incident which would provoke Israel enough to start major operation against Syria would wipe out Syrian airforce in a few days - and airfoce is pretty important for syrian government in its fight against rebels.

So I think that Syrian government wont provoke such action, because risk is too high.

I think both your points are valid, and I never suggested the Syrian army would provoke the action.

Just that if Israel initiated a short conflict with Syria, I can easily see Assad's position (regarding their opposition) being stronger afterwards, despite any material losses.

Think of why Saddam launched the scud attacks on Israel in the first gulf war, he was attempting to make it politically difficult for arab countries to side against him (he failed of course).

Anyway, this is a minor and hypothetical point anyway, I'd rather not derail this thread with Syria v Israel war nonsense that isn't gonna happen.

Genotype
02-07-2013, 11:17 PM
Just found this excellent link from the other article.

Live blog tracking progress of the war in Daraa and Damascus.

Far too much for me to quote/post though, I suggest you all check it out yourself.

http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2013/2/6/syria-live-coverage-the-fight-in-daraa-province.html

Most of the reports seem cross-referenced to map locations and/or youtube footage.

Camera
02-08-2013, 02:28 AM
Interesting article, apologies if already posted.

http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2013/2/6/syria-analysis-someone-is-arming-the-insurgentsand-its-worki.html

Someone on here mentioned the sudden appearance of ex-Yugoslav weapons in the opposition hands, but I can't find their post to quote em...might have been themacedonian.

Rumour has it (and I must say again this only the rumour) that this is all from a weapon shipment funded by Kuwaitis, brought in from the former Yugoslavia and distributed to the FSA. As mentioned in the article, this weapon stockpile is deliberately being targeted at the more moderate fighters and clearly being kept awake from the like of Jabhat al Nusra.

Yemen captured a ship loaded with Iranian weapons. The Yemenites will be wise to transfer the shipment to the FSA so the IRGC, the Hez and Assad would have a taste of the Mullah's medicine.

Laworkerbee
02-08-2013, 02:37 AM
I concur with Camera. Everyone is interested in keeping this more or less contained to Syria. Except maybe some jihadists.

More than a few parties involved only see Iran in the distance.

Let's not pretend the West gives a **** about Syrians. It never has and it never will. This is war of domino's, a war on Iran and the Shia Crescent, this is not about anyone caring about human rights or political reforms in Syria.

Camera
02-08-2013, 02:40 AM
More than a few parties involved only see Iran in the distance.

Did you read the reports about Panetta who has supported giving weapons to the rebels and Obama being against it?

Laworkerbee
02-08-2013, 02:47 AM
Did you read the reports about Panetta who has supported giving weapons to the rebels and Obama being against it?

I believe my reply was...


Thank you Mr. President.

Seriously, thanks!

AgentKoba37
02-08-2013, 02:48 AM
Did you read the reports about Panetta who has supported giving weapons to the rebels and Obama being against it?

A common trait of proxy conflicts and indeed wars is deception

AgentKoba37
02-08-2013, 02:51 AM
More than a few parties involved only see Iran in the distance.


Well that they do :) Seems working out so far but too early to call

Laworkerbee
02-08-2013, 02:52 AM
A common trait of sime proxy conflicts and indeed wars - deception

We don't have statesmen like that anymore - You give us Americans too much credit. The English and French run circles around us and lead us by the nose.

AgentKoba37
02-08-2013, 02:53 AM
. The English and French run circles around us and lead us by the nose.

Yeah right . I lolled

All I can say is you have learned your art of operational warfare rather well. Surely SAA ineptitude helps but still.

Camera
02-08-2013, 02:56 AM
More than a few parties involved only see Iran in the distance.

Let's not pretend the West gives a **** about Syrians. It never has and it never will. This is war of domino's, a war on Iran and the Shia Crescent, this is not about anyone caring about human rights or political reforms in Syria.

Biden offered direct talks to Iran last week and the Supreme Leader rejected the idea yesterday.

AgentKoba37
02-08-2013, 03:00 AM
Biden offered direct talks to Iran last week and the Supreme Leader rejected the idea yesterday.

Yeah I bet he made them an offer they couldnt refuse ;)

Laworkerbee
02-08-2013, 03:01 AM
Biden offered direct talks to Iran last week and the Supreme Leader rejected the idea yesterday.

With the internal political intrigue going on in Iran right now any talks would be a non-starter. I would imagine our government would know that and in my opinion it is likely Biden offered it TO GET TURNED DOWN so he could say he tried to play the peace maker.

But here is another question.

What is the Vice President doing with being involved in such an offering in the first place? No Vice President that I can think of has taken similar steps in the past? So really this is nothing more than a political stunt by our ******* Vice President.

The president or Sec State makes those calls, those kinds of statements. Not Vice Presidents.

Think Al Gore or George Bush pulled that **** as Vice presidents? Hell no! Know why? Because we had real leaders in office unlike today.

McJustice
02-08-2013, 03:07 AM
Biden offered direct talks to Iran last week and the Supreme Leader rejected the idea yesterday.

Summary of that rejection

AYATOLLAH ALI KHAMENEI

"Negotiations is a tactic. Talk is a tactic, a gesture of superpower, is only a deceptive move. This is not a real move. Talks are intended to prove goodwill. You do a dozen of things revealing your bad will, and then verbally say let's talk. Can the Iranian nation trust that you have any goodwill?"

OrangeWolf
02-08-2013, 03:11 AM
According to the Dutch secret service tens of Dutch citizens go to Syria to fight against the Syrian government. In Syria they receive military and ideological training, which they will take back to the Netherlands. In the last few months more jihadists left for Syria than in 2011 alone.

Don't sound like the type of "countrymen" I'd have a drink with...

Source: http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/07/aivd-bezorgd-tientallen-jihadstrijders-van-nederland-naar-syrie/

Camera
02-08-2013, 03:13 AM
With the internal political intrigue going on in Iran right now any talks would be a non-starter. I would imagine our government would know that and in my opinion it is likely Biden offered it TO GET TURNED DOWN so he could say he tried to play the peace maker.

But here is another question.

What is the Vice President doing with being involved in such an offering in the first place? No Vice President that I can think of has taken similar steps in the past? So really this is nothing more than a political stunt by our ******* Vice President.

The president or Sec State makes those calls, those kinds of statements. Not Vice Presidents.

Think Al Gore or George Bush pulled that **** as Vice presidents? Hell no! Know why? Because we had real leaders in office unlike today.

Obama has made a friendly offer to Iran, during his first presidency, to start a new relation and he was turned down. Maybe Biden tried this time hoping he'll be lucky than the president was.

AgentKoba37
02-08-2013, 03:15 AM
According to the Dutch secret service tens of Dutch citizens go to Syria to fight against the Syrian government. In Syria they receive military and ideological training, which they will take back to the Netherlands. In the last few months more jihadists left for Syria than in 2011 alone.

Don't sound like the type of "countrymen" I'd have a drink with...

Source: http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/07/aivd-bezorgd-tientallen-jihadstrijders-van-nederland-naar-syrie/

I guess Europe found a way to solve its latent islamist miltant problem by letting them leave for Syrian attrition. What happens when some survive and decide to come back?

Maximmmm
02-08-2013, 03:26 AM
According to the Dutch secret service tens of Dutch citizens go to Syria to fight against the Syrian government. In Syria they receive military and ideological training, which they will take back to the Netherlands. In the last few months more jihadists left for Syria than in 2011 alone.

Don't sound like the type of "countrymen" I'd have a drink with...

Source: http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/07/aivd-bezorgd-tientallen-jihadstrijders-van-nederland-naar-syrie/

Reminds me of every single time I had to pop down to Rotterdam for something. Majority is immigrants with a tangible portion of people you don't want to meet out at night.

Laworkerbee
02-08-2013, 03:37 AM
Obama has made a friendly offer to Iran, during his first presidency, to start a new relation and he was turned down. Maybe Biden tried this time hoping he'll be lucky than the president was.

Biden has no power to make such deals. I mean this literally so anything coming from this man regarding this issue is out and out bull****.

If anything the sorry ass Iranians better be even more paranoid.

themacedonian
02-08-2013, 06:14 AM
just saw this

http://www.masress.com/en/anaen/90332

Group says 54 died in Syria military factory blast
Arab News Agency (http://www.masress.com/en/author?name=Arab%20News%20Agency)Published in Arab News Agency (http://www.masress.com/en/anaen) on 08 - 02 - 2013


A bombing at a bus stop near a military factory in central Syria (http://www.masress.com/en/city?name=Syria) this week killed 54 people, all civilian workers at the plant, an activist group said Friday.
Rami Abdul-Rahman of the Britain-based Syria (http://www.masress.com/en/city?name=Syria)n Observatory for Human Rights said the explosion took place on Wednesday in the village of al-Buraq, near the central city of Hama.
The area is government-controlled, which is why reports on the blast were slow to emerge, he said.
A mini-bus packed with explosives blew up near a bus stop where factory workers were waiting to go home after work, said Abdul-Rahman. The dead included 11 women. He said the factory makes military supplies, but not weapons.
"These people work for the Ministry of Defense, but they are all civilians," he said "There was no one from the military" killed in the blast.

Camera
02-08-2013, 10:33 AM
Assad's forces try to beat back rebels edging into Damascus; UNHCR says some 5,000 refugees escaping Syria everyday.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=302620

prince99x
02-08-2013, 12:14 PM
1‰7. I dont think even war against israel would convince most rebels to join forces with government (and rebels sure as hell wouldnt let army take over territory they are currently holding).1‰8. Any serious incident which would provoke Israel enough to start major operation against Syria would wipe out Syrian airforce in a few days - and airfoce is pretty important for syrian government in its fight against rebels.So I think that Syrian government wont provoke such action, because risk is too high.Damn right 2 points.

prince99x
02-08-2013, 12:34 PM
hehehehe. Nice.In short I think Hezbollah might be hit for Burgas and conflict evolving into a regional war with Syria involved.Yeah the regional war is the last weapon we have indeed.But we still got so many cards just wait and see.Hence the newly formed N.D.F im very optimistic about it specially after the video of their training.http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DVgNkN9kPM_w

AgentKoba37
02-08-2013, 12:51 PM
Yeah the regional war is the last weapon we have indeed.But we still got so many cards just wait and see.Hence the newly formed N.D.F im very optimistic about it specially after the video of their training.http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DVgNkN9kPM_w

Good trigger discipline :) 0:13 - 0:16

Surenas
02-08-2013, 01:00 PM
According to the Dutch secret service tens of Dutch citizens go to Syria to fight against the Syrian government. In Syria they receive military and ideological training, which they will take back to the Netherlands. In the last few months more jihadists left for Syria than in 2011 alone.

Don't sound like the type of "countrymen" I'd have a drink with...

Source: http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/07/aivd-bezorgd-tientallen-jihadstrijders-van-nederland-naar-syrie/

Too bad they will eventually come back, because if not, I would even reconsider to buy them a ticket. I guess they don't know in which *****hole they've stepped.

coltfan111
02-08-2013, 01:09 PM
The longer this conflict has gone on, the more and more radical the most powerful elements in the "FSA" have become. There is no way I would like them to prevail as I would fear for the other non Sunni minorities in the country as well as the prospect of another safe haven for Islamic fundamentalism. However I do not think Assads position is sustainable, I just see the country being disected along ethnic and religous borders in the end.

Surenas
02-08-2013, 01:23 PM
Has anyone found something interesting about Hezbollah operating in Syria? I guess the lack of footage and information about Hezbollah units in Syria has something to do with them keeping a low-profile, by probably operating at night, which in turn makes infiltration and reconnaissance night vision goggles operations more convenient because of reduced visibility.

Bloo
02-08-2013, 01:30 PM
Has anyone found something interesting about Hezbollah operating in Syria? I guess the lack of footage and information about Hezbollah units in Syria has something to do with them keeping a low-profile, by probably operating at night, which in turn makes infiltration and reconnaissance night vision goggles operations more convenient because of reduced visibility.

Hezbollah also isn't very keen to advertise its role in Syria, due to Assad's unpopularity in most of the Arab world by this point and because it more or less shows their true colors as an Iranian proxy occupation army.

We haven't seen much footage of Iranian troops either, but they're there. Neither groups want to show this as anything more then Assad/Syrian People fighting a noble crusade against an Al Qaeda shadow army of foreigners raised by Israel/US. Of course the truth is that this conflict lost any semblance of good guy/bad guy long ago.

AgentKoba37
02-08-2013, 01:30 PM
Has anyone found something interesting about Hezbollah operating in Syria? I guess the lack of footage or information about Hezbollah units in Syria has something to do with them keeping a low-profile, by probably operating at night, which in turn makes infiltration and reconnaissance night vision goggles operations more convenient because of reduced visibility.

IMO hezzbollah is plugging SAA's tactical capability gaps as part of an effort of using urban environment to absorb rebel manpower. They are a force multiplier. There could be recon missions as well. Assasination of local rebel leadership too. Maybe hitting communication lines and those facilitating them

Surenas
02-08-2013, 01:57 PM
Iranian troops either, but they're there.

I doubt it. My guess is that Iranians are merely in an advisory role, while Hezbollah serves as its eyes and ears on the ground.


IMO hezzbollah is plugging SAA's tactical capability gaps as part of an effort of using urban environment to absorb rebel manpower. They are a force multiplier. There could be recon missions as well. Assasination of local rebel leadership too. Maybe hitting communication lines and those facilitating them

Thats what I'm trying to say; it explains why they have managed to keep a low-profile in Syria. They are not just operating as a regular 'Syrian' unit, but as special assault teams.

AgentKoba37
02-08-2013, 02:09 PM
Yep. I would say hezzbollah is there to match tactical advantages of Nusra type units among other things. You are most likely right Iranian involvement while significant is not as direct action yet.

Laker1
02-08-2013, 02:44 PM
I would say hezzbollah is there to match tactical advantages of Nusra type units among other things. You are most likely right Iranian involvement while significant is not as direct action yet.

Hezbollah for sure is willing to sacrifice many of it's members to try to save Assad..as long as there is no foreign military intervention,Assad can be quiet relaxed even though he doesn't control many areas of the country.

AgentKoba37
02-08-2013, 02:48 PM
Hezbollah for sure is willing to sacrifice many of it's members to try to save Assad..as long as there is no foreign military intervention,Assad can be quiet relaxed even though he doesn't control many areas of the country.

What choice do they have? Assad losing is not going to bode well for them

Laker1
02-08-2013, 02:58 PM
What choice do they have? Assad losing is not going to bode well for them

Assad=logistics for Hezbollah. The next regime in Syria for sure will not be close to Hezbollah and Iran like Assad is.

Ya22
02-08-2013, 03:49 PM
Has anyone found something interesting about Hezbollah operating in Syria? I guess the lack of footage and information about Hezbollah units in Syria has something to do with them keeping a low-profile, by probably operating at night, which in turn makes infiltration and reconnaissance night vision goggles operations more convenient because of reduced visibility.
Once in a while we hear about a dead terrorist returning to Lebanon from Syria to be buried there...

Ya22
02-08-2013, 03:51 PM
Assad=logistics for Hezbollah. The next regime in Syria for sure will not be close to Hezbollah and Iran like Assad is.
After the Assadists are gone, Syria will be like Iraq.. everything can go anywhere..

Laworkerbee
02-08-2013, 03:52 PM
After the Assadists are gone, Syria will be like Iraq.. everything can go anywhere..

What a joke.

Siempre_Leal
02-08-2013, 03:56 PM
Good trigger discipline :) 0:13 - 0:16

damn right...My finger would be sore or stiff lolz

@Laworkerbee...Ya22=Crush6655...crush's account gets suspended then he turns on his Ya22 profile...

Ya22
02-08-2013, 03:57 PM
What a joke.
What do you mean ?

I don't see a joke.

Laworkerbee
02-08-2013, 03:58 PM
What do you mean ?

I don't see a joke.

I do

Almost every time I read one of your posts.

TT1
02-08-2013, 04:01 PM
Turkey: Al-Qaeda in Syria is terrorist
ANKARA

In response to long-held claims that Turkey supports the Nusra front in Syria, which is linked to the al-Qaeda, the Turkish government made it clear Feb. 6 that it considers the al-Qaeda group in Syria to be a terrorist organization.

“We also consider the al-Qaeda elements in Syria as terrorists. It is not possible for us to consider them as freedom fighters and to give them support as a state,” Finance Minister Mehmet Şimşek told reporters in response to questions on the issue.

“Consequently, the withdrawal of support following the approval of this bill is out of question,” Şimşek said, speaking while Parliament was in the middle of debating a bill looking to prevent the financing of terrorism.
...

Washington recently blacklisted Jabhat al-Nusra, the Nusra Front, calling it a terrorist organization even though inside Syria it has attracted a lot of respect for its victories and for a comparative lack of corruption compared to many rebel groups.

February/06/2013
---
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-al-qaeda-in-syria-is-terrorist.aspx?pageID=238&nID=40636&NewsCatID=352

Flamming_Python
02-08-2013, 04:04 PM
damn right...My finger would be sore or stiff lolz

@Laworkerbee...Ya22=Crush6655...crush's account gets suspended then he turns on his Ya22 profile...

lol yeah that's exactly what I suspected.
Subconsciously I regarded them as one and the same person, because they in fact are :-P

Ladies and Gentlemen we have an Israeli troll here.

themacedonian
02-08-2013, 04:50 PM
Yeah the regional war is the last weapon we have indeed.But we still got so many cards just wait and see.Hence the newly formed N.D.F im very optimistic about it specially after the video of their training.http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DVgNkN9kPM_w

Opening war on another front is not desired by anyone.

I think IDF might enter Lebanon see here

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4342378,00.html

Would Syria help them?

EITAN88
02-08-2013, 04:55 PM
Opening war on another front is not desired by anyone.

I think IDF might enter Lebanon see here

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4342378,00.html


Israel will not enter Lebanon without a casus belli.

themacedonian
02-08-2013, 04:57 PM
Israel will not enter Lebanon without a casus belli.

A strike against the leadership/command elements that ordered Burgas (now that the verdict is out). Just one.

Then wait for response. Hezbollah responds.

Casus Belli for ground war.

EITAN88
02-08-2013, 05:03 PM
A strike against the leadership/command elements that ordered Burgas (now that the verdict is out). Just one.

Then wait for response. Hezbollah responds.

Casus Belli for ground war.


Perhaps, though I doubt that a strike against Hizbollah command would be conducted the same way as was done with Jabari but rather more like Mughniyah.

In which case a Hizbollah response will also not be of a direct nature (rocket fire on the north of Israel).

Laker1
02-08-2013, 05:11 PM
A strike against the leadership/command elements that ordered Burgas (now that the verdict is out). Just one.

Then wait for response. Hezbollah responds.

Casus Belli for ground war.

The respons will be via a covert operation..

jokuvaan
02-08-2013, 06:49 PM
Claimed map of the Damascus area, as always, impossible to verify: http://keapr.com/images/5d0eb9e8-5a28-499e-bfe2-9dbdfedb0d5a.jpg


(http://keapr.com/images/5d0eb9e8-5a28-499e-bfe2-9dbdfedb0d5a.jpg)http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9857846/Syria-how-jihadist-group-Jabhat-al-Nusra-is-taking-over-Syrias-revolution.html


The group is well funded – probably through established global jihadist networks – in comparison to moderates. Meanwhile pro-democracy rebel group commanders say money from foreign governments has all but dried up because of fears over radical Islamists.

The effect is changing the face of the Syrian revolution.

(http://keapr.com/images/5d0eb9e8-5a28-499e-bfe2-9dbdfedb0d5a.jpg)

Climber
02-08-2013, 07:37 PM
Opening war on another front is not desired by anyone.

I think IDF might enter Lebanon see here

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4342378,00.html

Would Syria help them?

Nobody is entering any place, don't lose your sleep about it......

prince99x
02-08-2013, 07:55 PM
Oh, OK. So what you are saying is that Russia failed to prevent the conflicts from happening or at least getting at the heart of the beast first before the **** hit the fan where they had no choice but to go in (and subsiquently enough, get more people killed)? If so, then I see what you are saying and I agree. The Russian government can be very spineless it seems.
Opening war on another front is not desired by anyone.I think IDF might enter Lebanon see herehttp://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1‰6,1Š31‰91Š01‰6,L-1Š01‰91Š01‰81‰91Š31Š4,1‰61‰6.htmlWould Syria help them?Syria already helped everyone from Hez up to Russia by its 2 year long super survival.However i said last weapon like when all the odds will be against us.

Laker1
02-08-2013, 08:09 PM
Syria already helped everyone from Hez up to Russia by its 2 year long super survival.However i said last weapon like when all the odds will be against us.

If Assad will be in a very bad situation he will use chemical weapons?..

Ya22
02-08-2013, 08:13 PM
If Assad will be in a very bad situation he will use chemical weapons?..

The guy has butchered 75,000+ Syrians.. sure he will.