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BitnikGr
02-12-2013, 06:07 PM
Finally! Something for the Shell-S1 to snack on.

Serious: I doubt the FSA has the logistical means to fuel and arm the aircraft.

If rebels will starting taking helicopters and aircrafts in the air, the Syrian Air Defense will have a huge problem... FFI system will be the same and I bet friendly-fire incidents will start appearing very soon.

Let's also recall that captured AAA guns with computerized FCS in Chechnya couldn't be locked by insurgents, because the trigger wasn't working when identifying a friendly aircraft.

Camera
02-12-2013, 06:56 PM
Finally! Something for the Shell-S1 to snack on.

Serious: I doubt the FSA has the logistical means to fuel and arm the aircraft.

I'm not sure. On the vids the facilities of the airbase seem intacts and there were ordinances in the warehouses.
If they have defected pilots and defected or captured ground personnel, it should not be impossible to render operational a L-39 which is not a sophisticated aircraft.

prince99x
02-12-2013, 07:51 PM
Oh, OK. So what you are saying is that Russia failed to prevent the conflicts from happening or at least getting at the heart of the beast first before the **** hit the fan where they had no choice but to go in (and subsiquently enough, get more people killed)? If so, then I see what you are saying and I agree. The Russian government can be very spineless it seems.
I'm not sure. On the vids the facilities of the airbase seem intacts and there were ordinances in the warehouses. If they have defected pilots and defected or captured ground personnel, it should not be impossible to render operational a L-٣٩ which is not a sophisticated aircraft.Are u wishing that they fly a plane,or r u discussing the possibility of this 1000 miles far dream of the smartest group of terrorists in Syria which even doesn't exist.

AirCanada
02-12-2013, 08:06 PM
Judging from what I can see on the evening news, the West has moved on. There used to be daily news stories about how Assad was murdering innocents in elementary schools. The political elite tried to sell the story but since it didn't catch on, it just a footnote now. After what happened in Libya, there's no appetite for intervention in the West. It's pretty much between the FSA and Assad. Whoever lasts longest will be the victor. I feel sorry for all the non combatants caught in between.

kalerab
02-12-2013, 09:11 PM
No. But repeating news about massacres in Syria gets old. News needs something new. 2 years of killing is not.

Laker1
02-12-2013, 09:24 PM
The "rebels" took control over Syrian warplanes. The question is if they are able to arm and maintain them..

Siempre_Leal
02-12-2013, 09:52 PM
Syria24 English

Damascus Countryside
- Syrian Army operations take place in Erbeen and Zamalka towns resulting the death of 50 armed men, including Mamoun al-Maghrebi.
Edilb
- Syrian army kill a large number of militants, seizing shoulder fire missiles
Daraa
- Syrian Army kills the leader Alaa al-Zu’bi and other gunmen during clashes in al-Sfera town.

Laworkerbee
02-13-2013, 03:36 AM
KNC (Kurdish National Council - supported by Iraqi Kurdistan president Barzani and his KDP party) decided to join opposition umbrella Syrian National Coalition

http://www.welati.info/nuce.php?ziman=ar&id=5524&niviskar=1&cure=5&kijan=

Very interesting.

geolocator
02-13-2013, 05:12 AM
RBC 13.02.2013, Moscow 12:27:15 Russia didn't supply tactical missile complexes "Iskander" to Syria. Director General of "Rosoboronexport" Anatoly Isaikin told reporters today . "The contract for their supply doesn't exist," - he stressed.

In mid-December 2012. some Iranian media reported on alleged Russian supplies of tactical cruise missile "Iskander" to Syria. Russian authorities have not commented on this information.
Translated by Google.

Camera
02-13-2013, 06:17 AM
Are u wishing that they fly a plane,or r u discussing the possibility of this 1000 miles far dream of the smartest group of terrorists in Syria which even doesn't exist.

The L-39 and the facility look operational. The FSA has defected pilots. If ground maintenance personal has defected or was captured, chances are this trainer planes could fly. No magic is needed for this.

What's shocking is that in each base that falls, the rebels capture huge amounts of ammunitions, weapons and vehicles. The SAA should have blown them.

Camera
02-13-2013, 06:18 AM
Russian state arms dealer to continue shipments to SyriaRosoboronexport director says sales of defense weapons to Assad regime not prohibited by the UN
MOSCOW (AP) — The head of Russia’s state arms trader says Moscow will continue shipping weapons to the government in Syria despite the country’s escalating civil war.

Anatoly Isaikin, the director of Rosoboronexport, says arms trade with Syria isn’t prohibited by the United Nations and so Russia has no intention to stop.

Isaikin told a Wednesday news conference that Russia is sending Syria defensive weapons, mostly air-defense systems, but nothing that could be used offensively such as planes, helicopters or armored vehicles.

Moscow has been a main protector of Syrian President Bashar Assad’s beleaguered regime, shielding it from attempts to impose UN sanctions over his crackdown on a 23-month-old uprising in which more than 60,000 have died.

Isaikin said more deliveries will be conducted under existing contracts, but gave no specifics.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/russian-state-arms-dealer-to-continue-shipments-to-syria/

Ayash
02-13-2013, 06:58 AM
Does anyone else follow the battle of As Safirah? This town southeast of Aleppo sits on the Aleppo Salmiyah road, one the major routes from the south into the city. In recent days the SAA has been staging an offensive on two fronts to capture it. One force came north from Hama and managed to cature Khanasser, 30 km south of As Safirah.
Another force attacked from the vicinity of the Aleppo international airport towards the south and is currently stalled at Tal 'Arn, just a few kilometers north of the city. If those two forces (currently about 40km from each other) manage to link up, the SAA will finally have an open land route to Aleppo, which would be hugely significant.

Rebel44CZ
02-13-2013, 07:34 AM
Does anyone else follow the battle of As Safirah? This town southeast of Aleppo sits on the Aleppo Salmiyah road, one the major routes from the south into the city. In recent days the SAA has been staging an offensive on two fronts to capture it. One force came north from Hama and managed to cature Khanasser, 30 km south of As Safirah.
Another force attacked from the vicinity of the Aleppo international airport towards the south and is currently stalled at Tal 'Arn, just a few kilometers north of the city. If those two forces (currently about 40km from each other) manage to link up, the SAA will finally have an open land route to Aleppo, which would be hugely significant.

Even if they manage to link up, I doubt that they would be able to hold that route for long.

Ayash
02-13-2013, 07:52 AM
Even if they manage to link up, I doubt that they would be able to hold that route for long.
The area the route goes through seems like mostly a desert almost all the way to As-Safirah itself, which is just a few kms south of Aleppo. That means few hostile towns and little cover for the rebels. Maintaining that route open should prove easier than the Damascus-Aleppo highway to the west.

ImpNavigator
02-13-2013, 09:40 AM
Russian state arms dealer to continue shipments to Syria
http://www.timesofisrael.com/russian-state-arms-dealer-to-continue-shipments-to-syria/

IMO most important for Syrian army, that Russia continues shipping "repair equipment intended for various branches of the military".

Surenas
02-13-2013, 09:44 AM
Assad: Current Crisis Prompts Syrians to Have Greater Hope in Government


TEHRAN (FNA)- Syrian President Bashar al-Assad said that the current situation the country is passing through prompts citizens to have greater hope in the government.

During a cabinet meeting after new ministers were sworn in before Assad and Prime Minister Wael al-Halqi, the Syrian leader said this hope "gives the ministries and state establishments an extra responsibility" in order to get over the ongoing crisis, SANA reported.

On Tuesday, President Assad noted that it is the Syrian citizen's responsibility to fulfill their duties in order to reach a team work, whether this is in each establishment or between the state and the citizen to alleviate the effects of the crisis.

In this context, the Syrian leader stressed that the sides targeting Syria have been working methodically to destroy the country's infrastructure, "and in that they target the Syrian people first and foremost".

President Assad reshuffled the cabinet on Saturday, as he named seven new ministers.

The new Ministers are Minister of Public Works Hussein Arnous, Minister of Labor Hassan Hijazi, Agriculture and Agrarian Reform Minister Ahmad al-Qadri, Petroleum and Mineral Resources Minister Sleiman al-Abbas, Finance Minister Ismael Ismael, and Minister of Social Affairs Kinda al-Shammat, according to the news agency.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9107144282

Genotype
02-13-2013, 09:52 AM
Does anyone else follow the battle of As Safirah? This town southeast of Aleppo sits on the Aleppo Salmiyah road, one the major routes from the south into the city. In recent days the SAA has been staging an offensive on two fronts to capture it. One force came north from Hama and managed to cature Khanasser, 30 km south of As Safirah.
Another force attacked from the vicinity of the Aleppo international airport towards the south and is currently stalled at Tal 'Arn, just a few kilometers north of the city. If those two forces (currently about 40km from each other) manage to link up, the SAA will finally have an open land route to Aleppo, which would be hugely significant.

From what I understand, the force moving coming from Aleppo is basically bogged down and not going anywhere. Rebel strategic momentum in the area is against them, with the rebels trying to envelop and encircle Aleppo International Airport, the SAA thrust south is in danger of having to fall back or be cut off itself.

As to what's going on around Al-Safira itself, that's a lot less certain. After the rebel offensive to capture the town and the (suspected) chemical weapons facilities to the South West, it's hard to get concrete news out. From what I have read, it seems the force advancing from Hama has had some success in their attack and managed to recapture a fair amount of terrain.

I personally, wouldn't be surprised to see the Syrian army thrust recapture Al-Safira, but then the force advancing North hits a lot more trouble as it faces the militant "nexus" around Aleppo, as it tries to close those last few kilometres. Recapturing Al-Safira itself will be a major fight and probably not open the road, nor secure it as a supply route.

Genotype
02-13-2013, 10:01 AM
From what I understand, the force moving coming from Aleppo is basically bogged down and not going anywhere. Rebel strategic momentum in the area is against them, with the rebels trying to envelop and encircle Aleppo International Airport, the SAA thrust south is in danger of having to fall back or be cut off itself.

As to what's going on around Al-Safira itself, that's a lot less certain. After the rebel offensive to capture the town and the (suspected) chemical weapons facilities to the South West, it's hard to get concrete news out. From what I have read, it seems the force advancing from Hama has had some success in their attack and managed to recapture a fair amount of terrain.

I personally, wouldn't be surprised to see the Syrian army thrust recapture Al-Safira, but then the force advancing North hits a lot more trouble as it faces the militant "nexus" around Aleppo, as it tries to close those last few kilometres. Recapturing Al-Safira itself will be a major fight and probably not open the road, nor secure it as a supply route.

Oh, and as an aside, rumour has it majority of the opposition fighters at Safira are Jabhat Al Nusra.

It seems the FSA formations fighting inside Aleppo proper have not been terribly interested in aiding their Salafi brethren to the south.

The problem is, I've never seen Jabhat Al Nusra post bad news. If Al-Safira is under assault and the Syrian army are trying to drive them out, there won't be any youtube videos of it. So it's a bit of an information black hole. My personal interpretation is simply that Safira IS under assault, but noones winning at the moment (the youtube videos will emerge when one side starts to gain the upper hand).

Genotype
02-13-2013, 10:19 AM
RPG29 sighting? (2.47)

Also pretty sure that's an M60 recoilless rifle they have as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdCkse5STx4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jdCkse5STx4)

kalerab
02-13-2013, 10:42 AM
Fighting rages near Aleppo airport


BEIRUT: Syrian rebels fought pitched battles Wednesday against regime forces at a military base that protects a major airport in the country's north in fighting that has left more than 40 government troops dead, opposition activists said.

Rebels have been attacking the civilian airport in the city of Aleppo for weeks, and now appear to have overrun the main defenses around the facility. But the airport itself, which stopped handling any flights weeks ago because of the fighting, still remains in regime hands.

On Tuesday, opposition fighters captured large parts of the "Brigade 80" base near the airport and attacked another major air base, Nairab, adjacent to the international airport after taking control of al-Manara army checkpoint just outside it.

By Wednesday, the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said the rebels were "almost fully in control" of the "Brigade 80" base. He said more than 40 government troops were killed in the fighting, including two brigadier generals, a colonel and two lieutenant colonels. The report could not be independently confirmed.

Heavy clashes were also still raging for control of the Nairab base as well as outside the civilian airport, which both have their own defenses in addition to the protection provided by Brigade 80.



http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2013/Feb-13/206286-syrian-troops-rebels-clash-in-contested-north.ashx#axzz2Kn2kzmjV

kalerab
02-13-2013, 11:28 AM
Tension rises in rebel Syria between jihadists, locals


ATME, Syria: Syrian rebels once welcomed fighters of the jihadist Al-Nusra Front with open arms but disputes over the extremists' strict interpretation of Islam are beginning to strain the ties.

In a rebel rear base at Atme in northern Syria, on the border with Turkey, at least four fights have broken out in recent weeks between jihadists and mainstream rebels, witnesses and residents told AFP.

One fight degenerated into an exchange of fire.

While the majority of the population -- and the rebels -- are Sunni Muslims, close interaction with people from dozens of other religious groups has over centuries softened most Syrians' interpretation of Islam.

But the jihadists, who are linked to Al-Qaeda, follow a puritanical interpretation of Islamic jurisprudence, considering for example a man smoking a cigarette or choosing to shave his beard to have become "anti-Islamic".

In the village of Qah in the northwest Syria province of Idlib, Al-Nusra Front fighters arrested a man for cursing after a minor car accident, sparking a heated standoff with villagers when they brought him before an Islamic tribunal.

The arrested man was the brother of a respected local leader and longtime insurgent, who quickly mobilised dozens of armed men, residents told AFP on condition of anonymity.

After a prolonged face-off with Al-Nusra fighters during which some jihadists were kidnapped, Qah residents secured the release of the arrested man in exchange for an Al-Nusra commander.

The jihadist commander was released only after his long Salafist beard had been trimmed, the sources added.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2013/Feb-11/206017-tension-rises-in-rebel-syria-between-jihadists-locals.ashx#axzz2Kn2kzmjV

kalerab
02-13-2013, 12:44 PM
Syria Analysis: A New Insurgent Alliance --- With New Weapons --- Is Changing the War

Yesterday's dramatic news was the insurgency['s capture of an airbase, complete with working fighter jets, in Aleppo Province and the assault against the largest Assad base in the north, near Aleppo International Airport.

This surge is at least partially the result of new weapons and new organisation of insurgency groups in Daraa and Damascus, with ample evidence that the boost in arms is courtesy of foreign powers.

Now a new piece of evidence bolsters the assessment that these weapons are coming from outside Syria, and also gives insight into the modified organisation of insurgent groups. Eliot Higgins presents this video:

According to Higgins' conversations with activists and Arabic speakers on Twitter, the video shows a group of secular Free Syrian Army troops being trained by the Al Farouq brigade, in an effort organised by the Kataeb al-Fajer faction.

This group appears to be called the "Dawn of Islam" Brigade, a coalition founded in late December.

This group in turn appears to be part of a larger effort to unify the Islamic brigades in the south and ally them with the Free Syrian Army --- with the exclusion of the most extreme groups like Jabhat al Nusra. Zilal, an activist associated with the CFDPC, offers insight:



http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2013/2/13/syria-analysis-a-new-insurgent-alliance-with-new-weapons-is.html?SSScrollPosition=0

DuHasst
02-13-2013, 01:00 PM
Could anyone give an estimation of the troops that SAA has and the various FSA groups have? What about Kurds?


KNC (Kurdish National Council - supported by Iraqi Kurdistan president Barzani and his KDP party) decided to join opposition umbrella Syrian National Coalition

Seems like Kurds smelled something in the air...

Bloo
02-13-2013, 01:09 PM
Could anyone give an estimation of the troops that SAA has and the various FSA groups have? What about Kurds?



Seems like Kurds smelled something in the air...

My own blind speculation is ~100,000 Syrian Army/Iranians/Hezzi's/Iraqi Shia's vs. ~75,000-100,000 FSA/Foreign Fighters

DuHasst
02-13-2013, 01:35 PM
My own blind speculation is ~100,000 Syrian Army/Iranians/Hezzi's/Iraqi Shia's vs. ~75,000-100,000 FSA/Foreign Fighters

My thought was 150.000~200.000 in the Assad side including Sahiba/Hezzies/Iranians and 50.000~70.000 FSA. However if your numbers
are closer to reality the clock is ticking faster than we thought for Assad...

Surenas
02-13-2013, 01:39 PM
My own blind speculation is ~100,000 Syrian Army/Iranians/Hezzi's/Iraqi Shia's vs. ~75,000-100,000 FSA/Foreign Fighters

AFAIK, there are no Iranian troops.

kalerab
02-13-2013, 01:57 PM
Could anyone give an estimation of the troops that SAA has and the various FSA groups have? What about Kurds?



Seems like Kurds smelled something in the air...

YPG has 8 brigades and Salih Muslim claims they are 10,000 strong. Than there are non-PYD militias which are much smaller.

Stuja
02-13-2013, 02:30 PM
AFAIK, there are no Iranian troops.
Haven't we seen enough evidence of iranian boots on the ground ?! :p surenas u really think there are as much rebels as people on here claim ?

Hisroyalhighness
02-13-2013, 08:01 PM
A far more detailed article:
‘No Warplanes’ for Syria Says Russian Arms Sales Boss (http://en.rian.ru/world/20130213/179443688.html)


MOSCOW, February 13 (RIA Novosti) - Russia’s state-run arms dealer Rosoboronexport is supplying air-defense missile systems and maintenance and servicing equipment to Syria but not combat aircraft, the company's director Anatoly Isaikin said on Wednesday.

Russia and Syria have previously signed a contract for delivery to Damascus of Yak-130 Mitten jet trainers, but it has been suspended, he added.

The company still has some other outstanding contracts with Syria, Isaikin said, but did not provide any details, citing commercial confidentiality. Syria is the 13th or 14th largest buyer of Russian arms, he said, without elaborating.

Russia and the United States were involved in a diplomatic war of words last year over Moscow's arms sales to Syria, after Washington accused Russia of supplying attack helicopters to the al-Assad regime. Moscow denied those accusations, claiming it was merely returning equipment overhauled as part of long-standing contracts with Syria, which is locked in a bitter civil war between the government and Islamist rebels.

In July, US lawmakers passed a bill breaking off contracts between the Pentagon and Rosoboronexport, which they claimed was "arming the oppressive Syrian regime,” the House of Representatives said on its website. That bill, introduced by Democrat Congressman Jim Moran, was passed by an overwhelming 407-5 vote and was attached to the 2013 US military budget.

According to US lawmakers, Rosoboronexport supplied nearly $1 billion worth of arms to Syria in 2011, including high-explosives, mortars, sniper rifles, ammunition and attack helicopters which could have been used by Assad’s forces to kill civilians.

Isaikin said a $4.5 billion arms contract Russia signed with Iraq in 2012 remains intact but has "yet to go into force." Cooperation with Iran continues and Russia has resumed dealings with Libya, Isaikin said, adding it has not lost a single contract with Egypt.

He also claimed a Russian-US follow-on contract for the delivery of 12 Mi-171 helicopters to Afghanistan will be carried out, despite the US Congress’ recommendations against cooperation with Rosoboronexport.

The US Senate passed the Cornyn amendment in December, barring the use of American budget funds to purchase goods - including helicopters for Afghanistan - from Rosoboronexport. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov warned at the time that the measure might affect the Afghan helicopter deal.

Rosoboronexport was subject to US sanctions from 2006 to 2010 for allegedly providing nations including Iran and Syria with equipment that could be used to develop weapons of mass destruction.
Russia signed a total of 1,309 arms contracts with 65 countries worth $17.6 billion (http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20130213/179446381/Russia-Signs-Record-176-Bln-in-Arms-Contracts-in-2012--------.html)in 2012, 150 percent more than in 2011 in terms of monetary value, Isaikin said on Wednesday.

Russia's Federal Military-Technical Cooperation Service (FSMTC) said in January Moscow sold a record $15.16 billion worth of arms in 2012, while expanding its foreign client list.

India is the leading purchaser of Russian arms, with Myanmar, Vietnam, Venezuela and Middle East countries also among the Russian defense industry's main clients. Russia's expanded list of its clients in 2012 included Afghanistan, Ghana, Oman, and Tanzania.

Siempre_Leal
02-13-2013, 08:14 PM
SAA Air Strikes & Artillery Bombard SouthEast Of Damascus



AMMAN (*******) - President Bashar al-Assad's forces bombarded the southeast of Damascus with air strikes and artillery on Wednesday to try and dislodge rebel fighters who have gained a foothold in the Syrian capital, opposition activists said.
A Middle East diplomat following the military situation described battles in and around Damascus as a "major engagement", with fighting going back and forth between the two sides.


http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-air-falls-assad-forces-under-pressure-025325553.html

Camera
02-13-2013, 08:19 PM
Protesters block Syria-bound oil trucksFebruary

14, 2013 01:26 AMBy Antoine Amrieh (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/Antoine-Amrieh.ashx), Mohammed Zaatari (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/Mohammed-Zaatari.ashx)

(…)

Protesters in Arida were joined by Akkar MP Mouin Merhebi, from the Future Movement, as well as a representative of MP Khaled Daher.


“We cannot allow any product that is used to kill the unarmed Syrian people to enter [Syria], particularly diesel,” Merhebi told reporters.

The lawmaker said that the Cabinet of Prime Minister Najib Mikati, which he called the Cabinet of President Bashar Assad, was supporting the Syrian regime in committing massacres against its own people.

“We put this issue at the disposal of the United Nations, the Arab League and international organizations,” Merhebi added. The roads were reopened in the afternoon.

Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Local-News/2013/Feb-14/206392-protesters-block-syria-bound-oil-trucks.ashx#ixzz2KpP8DekI
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)

Camera
02-13-2013, 08:32 PM
US working to convince Assad to go: Kerry
WASHINGTON - Agence France-Presse

Washington aims to change Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's belief that he can hang onto power and accept "the inevitability" of his departure, Secretary of State John Kerry said Tuesday.

"We need to address the question of President Assad's calculation currently," Kerry told reporters. "I believe there are additional things that can be done to change his current perception." The new topUS (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/America) diplomat said he would not go into specifics in public, but has a "good sense" of possible proposals.

Speaking after talks with Jordanian Foreign Minister Nasser Judeh, Kerry said he was convinced there was a certain "inevitability" given the current state of the conflict.

"Now, that hasn't sunk into him yet, obviously," Kerry added.

CONTINUED: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/us-working-to-convince-assad-to-go-kerry-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41094&NewsCatID=352

Laker1
02-13-2013, 09:27 PM
US working to convince Assad to go: Kerry


WASHINGTON - Agence France-Presse

Washington aims to change Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's belief that he can hang onto power and accept "the inevitability" of his departure, Secretary of State John Kerry said Tuesday.

"We need to address the question of President Assad's calculation currently," Kerry told reporters. "I believe there are additional things that can be done to change his current perception." The new topUS (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/America) diplomat said he would not go into specifics in public, but has a "good sense" of possible proposals.

Speaking after talks with Jordanian Foreign Minister Nasser Judeh, Kerry said he was convinced there was a certain "inevitability" given the current state of the conflict.

"Now, that hasn't sunk into him yet, obviously," Kerry added.

CONTINUED: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/us-working-to-convince-assad-to-go-kerry-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41094&NewsCatID=352
And he will go...

ISNJH
02-13-2013, 11:35 PM
http://jordantimes.com/share-content/fresh-off-of-airport-victory-syrian-defectors-to-form-first-air-squadron.html


MAFRAQ — Fresh off the capture of a strategic military airport, Syrian rebels say they are set to form their first air squadron in a bid to add air power to the armed resistance’s arsenal.
According to rebel sources, Syrian air force defectors have agreed to return to the country to form the resistance’s first “air squadron” in a bid to operate a fleet of fighter jets reportedly seized by the Free Syrian Army (FSA) on Tuesday.
Some 35 former air force officers, pilots and technicians currently residing in Jordan and Turkey are set to form the squadron, defectors say, which is to operate under the umbrella of the FSA and the Higher Syrian Military Council.
“We have been waiting for months to return to Syria and serve the revolution,” said Abu Khaled Al Dimashqi, a 45-year-old former Syrian air force major general currently residing in Jordan.
“We believe this is our chance.”
Syrian air force defectors said the decision came hours after the FSA’s capture of Al Jarah military airport on the outskirts of Aleppo on Tuesday, seizing in the process some three-dozen aircraft and fighter jet.
However, Syrian air force defectors have raised doubts over the operational condition of the recently seized fleet — which reportedly consists of MiG-17 and L-39 fighter jets — and have reportedly dispatched a team of technicians to Aleppo to run “maintenance and tests” on the aircraft.
“We have seen photos and video of these jets, but only God knows if they can actually fly,” Abu Mohammed, a 34-year-old fighter jet pilot who defected to Jordan in early December, said from a rebel safehouse in the Jordanian border city of Mafraq.
“We need to get experts into the airport before we can get too excited.”

Impartial Bias
02-13-2013, 11:57 PM
http://jordantimes.com/share-content/fresh-off-of-airport-victory-syrian-defectors-to-form-first-air-squadron.html
How many of those aircraft are actually serviceable though, and even if they are serviceable, do they have the logistic capacity to field them?
I remember in the video of the capture of Al Jarah there is an FSA fighter shown putting holes through an L-39 with a PKM, only to have the aircraft and the airport captured 5 minutes later. The L-39 the FSA guy was shooting at looked serviceable, especially considering it was in an open hangar. From what I've seen on camera, most of the other aircraft at the base, and especially those outside, all looked derelict and nowhere near airworthy.

Does anyone have additional information about the aircraft captured at Al Jarah?

gresh
02-14-2013, 12:07 AM
A lawyer from my neck of the woods died fighting for the FSA in Aleppo.


A man by the name of Mohammed Mehriz was martyred in Syria a few days ago. He was shot by a regime sniper during battle. This man was not Syrian, he was EGYPTIAN. He was a successful lawyer who lived in the city of ELK GROVE, CA. This is the very city that I currently live in right now. Mohammed couldn't bear to continue to watch the news and youtube videos of Syrian children, men, and women being slaughtered by a criminal regime as the world watches in SILENCE. He decided to leave behind his 4 year old daughter Nada and his wife Shayma to fight with the Free Syrian Army in Aleppo to help the Syrian people gain their freedom by taking down the brutal Assad regime. Mohammed Mehriz you are my HERO, I will never forget what you did to support our cause. I will never forget your bravery. To sacrifice everything for someone else is the ultimate sacrifice. inshAllah you are a martyr in the highest heavens. May Allah (SWT) bless your family and may their reward (Ajer) be great.
https://www.facebook.com/Walk4ChildrenOfSyria

Surenas
02-14-2013, 01:29 AM
Quds Force General killed in Syria


Lebanon’s al-Manar TV today reported that a senior commander of IRGC was killed in recent days in Syria. The television channel run by the Hezbollah did not disclose the name of the slain commander. Iran’s pro-government news website mashreghnews.ir, however, identified the Iranian officer as IRGC Brig. Gen. Hassan Shateri, a Quds Force commander. The website said that the general was in charge of an Iranian agency responsible for “rebuilding Lebanon.”

Mashreghnews.ir said Quds Force Commander Maj. Gen. Qasem Soleimani visited Shateri's family to express his condolences.

This is the first time a senior Iranian commander is killed in Syria. The Quds Force is responsible for IRGC’s extraterritorial operations. The organization has also been accused of terrorist activities outside Iran. Its commander, Gen. Qasemi, reports directly to Ayatollah Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader.

http://www.uskowioniran.com/2013/02/quds-force-general-killed-in-syria.html

Edit: already posted in a new topic.

AgentKoba37
02-14-2013, 02:08 AM
Moscow is continuing its export of military hardware to the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, state arms exporter Rosonboronexport director Anatoly Isaikin confirmed Wednesday.
"We are continuing to carry out our obligations on contracts for the delivery of military hardware," Isaikin told reporters at a news conference in Moscow, adding there were no attack weapons among the hardware, such as helicopters or planes.
There were, he said, anti-missile air defense systems being sent to Assad"s forces – a shipment which he insisted did not violate any resolutions by the United Nations Security Council, or international laws.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/wap/Item.aspx?type=0&item=165199

kalerab
02-14-2013, 04:22 AM
Quds Force General killed in Syria



http://www.uskowioniran.com/2013/02/quds-force-general-killed-in-syria.html

Edit: already posted in a new topic.

Manar is usually right at this, they were first who knew who died in that Damascus bombing as well.

Surenas
02-14-2013, 04:25 AM
Manar is usually right at this, they were first who knew who died in that Damascus bombing as well.

True. It has also been confirmed by Iranian news agencies, and they mentioned that his funeral would be held today, so I expect to see some pictures this afternoon.

Camera
02-14-2013, 05:34 AM
'Tehran removing key intel material from Damascus'

By ARIEL BEN SOLOMON
02/14/2013 02:50




Intelligence said to include secret agreements, minutes of meetings reports relating to Iran’s support of Hezbollah.

Sources in the Syrian opposition claim that Iran has already begun transferring its diplomatic and intelligence archives from Syria, according to the Iraqi paper Azzaman on Monday.

The intelligence is said to include secret agreements between Tehran and Damascus, minutes of meetings of senior officials and reports relating to Iran’s support of Hezbollah from Syria.

Fearing the fall of Syrian President Bashar Assad, and that the information could be seized and used against it in international forums or serve as a justification for a future attack on Tehran, the Iranian leadership decided to transfer the documents to Tehran, according to the paper.

(…)

However, given that the report originates from the opposition, some say its validity should be confirmed in light of the opposition agenda to make Assad look like he is about to fall and strengthen their side.

http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/Article.aspx?id=303217

If true, these are more bad news for Assad.

Laworkerbee
02-14-2013, 05:38 AM
A lawyer from my neck of the woods died fighting for the FSA in Aleppo.

He was an Egyptian whose sister lives in Elk Grove, he wasn't an American but another loser without a future seeking war as an alternative.

Ayash
02-14-2013, 05:40 AM
The problem is, I've never seen Jabhat Al Nusra post bad news. If Al-Safira is under assault and the Syrian army are trying to drive them out, there won't be any youtube videos of it. So it's a bit of an information black hole. My personal interpretation is simply that Safira IS under assault, but noones winning at the moment (the youtube videos will emerge when one side starts to gain the upper hand).

Here's a lenghty explanation of the events from the rebel POV (in arabic), up to yesterday:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzopiECDxCE

Some key details:

The regime conovoy traveling from Hama managed to enter the defense factories (adjacent to As Safirah from the west) after a battle in which both sides suffered heavy losses.

After loading up ammunition from the defense factories, the regime conovoy has attempted to reach the Aleppo Interantional Airport. Here's the interesting part: If I undersand correctly, they claim that at this point the conovoy managed to get through or around As Safirah (I'm guessing the latter) and actually came up to Tal 'Arn from the South. At this point it was stopped, resulting in the onogoing batte in that place.

To sum up: After months of regime-controled Aleppo being under siege, and just when the airport, currently the only source of supplies for the troops and pro-regime civilians therein, is seriously threatened, the SAA has mounted a dramatic effort to reinforce the city by land. Having traveled over 100kms by an alternate eastern route, pushing through rebel defenses and relieving besieged bases along the way, the conovoy is now within 10km of its target. If it manages to reach the airport and the city at this crucial point, opening a supply route and dooming the rebel effort to take the airport, it could mark a turning point in the battle of Aleppo.

Camera
02-14-2013, 05:44 AM
Here's a lenghty explanation of the events from the rebel POV (in arabic), up to yesterday:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzopiECDxCE

Some key details:

The regime conovoy traveling from Hama managed to enter the defense factories (adjacent to As Safirah from the west) after a battle in which both sides suffered heavy losses.

After loading up ammunition from the defense factories, the regime conovoy has attempted to reach the Aleppo Interantional Airport. Here's the interesting part: If I undersand correctly, they claim that at this point the conovoy managed to get through or around As Safirah (I'm guessing the latter) and actually came up to Tal 'Arn from the South. At this point it was stopped, resulting in the onogoing batte in that place.

To sum up: After months of regime-controled Aleppo being under siege, and just when the airport, currently the ony source of supplies for the troops and pro-regime civilians therein, is seriously threatened, the SAA has mounted a dramatic effort to reinforce the city by land. Having traveled over 100kms by an alternate eastern route, pushing through rebel defenses and relieving besieged bases along the way, the conovoy is now within 10km of its target. If it manages to reach the airport and the city at this crucial point, opening a supply route and dooming the rebel effort to take the airport, it could mark a turning point in the battle of Aleppo.

Interesting. This must be a big convoy.

Camera
02-14-2013, 06:03 AM
Turkey seizes huge arms cache to SyriaANKARA
Ankara attempts to silence observers who say it is arming Syrian opposition militants, claiming to have seized arms destined for the Arab republic
Hundreds of rifles, shotguns and bullets that were to be sent from Turkey to violence-plagued Syria have been seized over the last month by Turkish security forces, Customs and Trade Minister Hayati Yazıcı said yesterday.

Yazıcı’s statements came in response to national and international criticism on Turkey’s “reluctance” to control the arms flow to Syria and the accusation that Turkey is responsible for supplying arms to Syrian rebels.

Some 110 air guns, 51 shotguns, 86 rifle scopes, 86 rifle clips, 104 gun clips and 50,375 bullets were seized in five operations conducted in the last week of January, Yazıcı told daily Hürriyet.

Cars searched in the operation all carried Syrian plates.

There was a significant increase in the number of seized arms compared to 2012. A total of 16 shotguns, four automatic rifles, five hunting rifles, two grenades and 2,186 bullets were captured at the Syrian border last year, according to official data provided by Yazıcı.

Refuting claims that Turkey was arming the opposition to Damascus, Yazıcı said Turkey had been conducting controls on all 10 border gates to stop illegal arms-trafficking in the region and had been taking necessary measures to protect Turkish citizens’ lives and provide humanitarian help to the Syrian people, “who are under attack from the Bashar al-Assad regime.”

(…)

According to the minister, the $2.5 billion trade capacity between Turkey and Syria has fallen to $560 million since the civil war began in the country.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-seizes-huge-arms-cache-to-syria.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41078&NewsCatID=338

Flamming_Python
02-14-2013, 06:03 AM
He was an Egyptian whose sister lives in Elk Grove, he wasn't an American but another loser without a future seeking war as an alternative.

So another foreigner who went to join the FSA. Swell.

ZapB
02-14-2013, 06:47 AM
So another foreigner who went to join the FSA. Swell.

I believe the proper & legal term is foreign jihadi unlawful combatant (aka 'islamic terrorist without rights').

At least that's how USA calls (and treats) Durka-Durkas doing jihadi missionary trips around the globe...

tanks_alot
02-14-2013, 06:59 AM
I believe the proper & legal term is foreign jihadi unlawful combatant (aka 'islamic terrorist without rights').

At least that's how USA calls (and treats) Durka-Durkas doing jihadi missionary trips around the globe...

As opposed to the Hezzis, Iranians and Iraqi Shiites?

This is turning into the Middle Eastern version of the Spanish civil war.

Flamming_Python
02-14-2013, 07:04 AM
I believe the proper & legal term is foreign jihadi unlawful combatant (aka 'islamic terrorist without rights').

At least that's how USA calls (and treats) Durka-Durkas doing jihadi missionary trips around the globe...

Yep, together the customary paragraph of outrage about how he can no longer stand on the sidelines while the Syrian army is BBQing babies, etc...

Flamming_Python
02-14-2013, 07:05 AM
As opposed to the Hezzis, Iranians and Iraqi Shiites?

This is turning into the Middle Eastern version of the Spanish civil war.

Don't see any of them around, all I hear is just some stories, etc...
Not sure they are there in any significant numbers.

You would think that with these dozens of thousands of Hezbollah, Iranians, allied militias, etc... fighting on the side of the Syrian army - that they would at least be able to stop the military bases and airports falling.

But I very much think that the foreign support and manpower is on the side of the FSA actually.

tanks_alot
02-14-2013, 07:13 AM
Don't see any of them around, all I hear is just some stories, etc...
Not sure they are there in any significant numbers.

You would think that with these dozens of thousands of Hezbollah, Iranians, allied militias, etc... fighting on the side of the Syrian army - that they would at least be able to stop the military bases and airports falling.

But I very much think that the foreign support and manpower is on the side of the FSA actually.

Not really, since you're biased, you're trying to portray it in a manner that fits your agenda, but in reality we've been hearing about quite a few Hezzis buried, after being "martyred while performing their Jihadic duty" (thier phrasing, not mine) and a high ranking IRGC commander, just got offed yesterday.

You're hoping Assad's side will win, because it's supposedly in Russia's interests, but fact of the matter is, that this civil war is attracting the worst kind of scum, on both sides.

Laker1
02-14-2013, 07:17 AM
Don't see any of them around, all I hear is just some stories, etc...
Not sure they are there in any significant numbers.

You would think that with these dozens of thousands of Hezbollah, Iranians, allied militias, etc... fighting on the side of the Syrian army - that they would at least be able to stop the military bases and airports falling.

But I very much think that the foreign support and manpower is on the side of the FSA actually.

In not such a big amount ,but they fight in Syria..you also can read about Hezbollah terrorists that were buried and the reason for the death was a "jihadist mission". They don't want to say officially that they fight in Syria.

Flamming_Python
02-14-2013, 07:25 AM
Not really, since you're biased, you're trying to portray it in a manner that fits your agenda, but in reality we've been hearing about quite a few Hezzis buried, after being "martyred while performing their Jihadic duty" (thier phrasing, not mine) and a high ranking IRGC commander, just got offed yesterday.

You're hoping Assad's side will win, because it's supposedly in Russia's interests, but fact of the matter is, that this civil war is attracting the worst kind of scum, on both sides.
I am biased, and I am hoping that Assad will win - not because it's in Russia's interests (I would have the same position regardless of whether Russia was officially pro or anti Assad), or even because many Russians live there (although that also concerns me), but because I don't want to see this country dismantled and turned into a cesspool by some people whose only concern is rivalry with Iran or 'rightful vengeance' for Israel or Lebanon.

I haven't seen any photos of Iranian or Hezbollah fighters, that's what I'm trying to say. I haven't heard of their significance in any battles either, although perhaps I'm just not keeping up to date (and admittedly, I haven't seen so many photos either).
This leads me to the conclusion that their presence is wildly overstated.


In not such a big amount ,but they fight in Syria..you also can read about Hezbollah terrorists that were buried and the reason for the death was a "jihadist mission". They don't want to say officially that they fight in Syria.

Yeah, and that's all I heard about them. Some story about being buried after their jihadist mission.
As for the Iranians - just a couple of stories about buses of Iranian pilgrims (who might not be actual pilgrims) being detained or what not.

kalerab
02-14-2013, 07:28 AM
I am biased, and I am hoping that Assad will win - not because it's in Russia's interests, but because I don't want to see this country dismantled and turned into a cesspool by some people who's only concern is rivalry with Iran or 'rightful vengeance' for Israel or Lebanon.

I haven't seen any photos of Iranian or Hezbollah fighters, that's what I'm trying to say. I haven't heard of their significance in any battles either, although perhaps I'm just not keeping up to date (and admittedly, I haven't seen so many photos either).
This leads me to the conclusion that their presence is wildly overstated.

Hezbollah is burying their militiamen in Bekkaa every second day. Sure, by performing jihadi duty they can mean also choking on falafel (you'd be surprised how often that happens) but I doubt that is where majority comes from. In Qusayr and Homs they are heavily involved anyway, wear yellow ribbons.

Laker1
02-14-2013, 07:28 AM
I am biased, and I am hoping that Assad will win - not because it's in Russia's interests, but because I don't want to see this country dismantled and turned into a cesspool by some people who's only concern is rivalry with Iran or 'rightful vengeance' for Israel or Lebanon.

I haven't seen any photos of Iranian or Hezbollah fighters, that's what I'm trying to say. I haven't heard of their significance in any battles either, although perhaps I'm just not keeping up to date (and admittedly, I haven't seen so many photos either).
This leads me to the conclusion that their presence is wildly overstated.



Yeah, and that's all I heard about them. Some story about being buried after their jihadist mission.
The truth is probably in the middle..not so much fighters like some say but there are terrorists from Hezbollah that fight..here is a link about a Hezbollah terrorist that was killed in Syria:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/hezbollah-commander-killed-while-on-jihad-duties-in-syria-20121003-26zi8.html

Flamming_Python
02-14-2013, 07:30 AM
Hezbollah is burying their militiamen in Bekkaa every second day. Sure, by performing jihadi duty they can mean also choking on falafel (you'd be surprised how often that happens) but I doubt that is where majority comes from. In Qusayr and Homs they are heavily involved anyway, wear yellow ribbons.

Do you have any photos of these fighters, and some sources about the yellow ribbons?

Camera
02-14-2013, 07:40 AM
The IRGC and the Hezbollah terrorists keep a lower profile, that's all. The Shabiha terrorists were filmed in many occasions.

gilgoul
02-14-2013, 07:43 AM
Do you have any photos of these fighters, and some sources about the yellow ribbons?


just for you:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9615925/Hizbollah-launching-rocket-attacks-into-Syria.html


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161404#.URzNglpp5bs

but google is your friend

Surenas
02-14-2013, 07:48 AM
There are, as far I know, no IRGC fighters in Syria. I don't know how many times I've to repeat myself. There are IRGC-advisors, but no fighters.

Camera
02-14-2013, 07:53 AM
There are, as far I know, no IRGC fighters in Syria. I don't know how many times I've to repeat myself. There are IRGC-advisors, but no fighters.

They are not to provide advises on peaceful matters.

Climber
02-14-2013, 07:55 AM
There are, as far I know, no IRGC fighters in Syria. I don't know how many times I've to repeat myself. There are IRGC-advisors, but no fighters.

Just because you dont know.

Surenas
02-14-2013, 07:55 AM
They are not to provide advises on peaceful matters.

That wouldn't make them fighters.

Surenas
02-14-2013, 07:56 AM
Just because you dont know.

I know because there is no evidence.

Camera
02-14-2013, 08:01 AM
That wouldn't make them fighters.

They support actively the war effort, so there's no much difference.

ZapB
02-14-2013, 08:02 AM
As opposed to the Hezzis, Iranians and Iraqi Shiites?

This is turning into the Middle Eastern version of the Spanish civil war.
Why are you assuming that I think those do not fall into the same "foreign combatant" group as-well? Of course they do, they are technically the same shyt. Maybe this war had something to do with freedom & democracy at the start, but now it's mostly a (sunni islamic) revolution & (shia) counter-revolution thing.

But in terms of global jihad (ie. 'religious supremacy fight'), sunni Durka militancy clearly has a big lead on the shia one.

Surenas
02-14-2013, 08:03 AM
They support actively the war effort, so there's no much difference.

Yes, there is, and I'm not planning to start a semantic discussion.

Camera
02-14-2013, 08:08 AM
Yes, there is, and I'm not planning to start a semantic discussion.

Hezbollah is fighting there and Hezbollah is commanded by the IRGC/Quds force. They might be all called 'advisers', but they are involved at least in commanding positions.

kalerab
02-14-2013, 08:13 AM
Do you have any photos of these fighters, and some sources about the yellow ribbons?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A0G49DSCQAEt-nL.jpg

Flamming_Python
02-14-2013, 08:18 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A0G49DSCQAEt-nL.jpg

Well a group photo somewhere. At least it's something.

Big Lebowski
02-14-2013, 08:36 AM
Well a group photo somewhere. At least it's something.
Well the bagground tells us it is Aleppo.

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/21/gallery/

kalerab
02-14-2013, 09:20 AM
How to Start a Battalion (in Five Easy Lessons)

Ghaith Abdul-Ahad reports from Syria


In the cramped living room of a run-down flat near the Aleppo frontline, two Syrian rebels sat opposite each other. The one on the left was stout, broad-shouldered, with a neat beard that looked as though it had been outlined in sharp pencil around his throat and cheeks. His shirt and trousers were immaculately pressed and he wore brand-new military webbing – the expensive Turkish kind, not the Syrian knock-off. The rebel sitting opposite him was younger, gaunt and tired-looking. His hands were filthy and his trousers caked in mud and diesel.

The flat had once belonged to an old lady. Traces of a domestic life that had long ceased to exist were scattered around the room and mingled with the possessions of the new occupiers. A mother of pearl ashtray sat next to a pile of walkie-talkies. Small china figurines stood on top of the TV next to a box of cartridges. Guns and ammunition lay on the rickety wooden chairs and a calendar showing faded landscapes hung on the wall. In the bedroom next door clothes were piled on the bed next to crates of ammunition. The stout rebel was shifty, on edge and keen to finish what he came to say and leave quickly. The other looked like a man waiting for a disaster to unfold.

But like a couple trying to conduct the business of their divorce with civility they spent a long time on pleasantries: each asked the other about his village and praised the courage and strength of his people. Outside a machine gun fired relentlessly down the street, interrupted only by the occasional thud of a mortar shell.

‘I am taking my cousins away from the front,’ the stout man finally said.

‘Why?’ the young rebel whined, as if one of the mortar shells had smacked him in the head. ‘Did we do anything wrong? Didn’t we feed them properly? Didn’t they get their daily rations? Whatever ammunition we get we divide equally: tell me what we did wrong.’

‘No, no, nothing wrong – but you seem not to have any work here.’

‘But this is an important defensive position,’ the young rebel pleaded. ‘All of Aleppo depends on this hill. If you go, two frontline posts will be left empty. They’ll be able to skirt around us.’

‘I’m sure you’ll take care of it. Allah bless your men, they’re very good.’

‘Where will you go?’

‘A very good man, a seeker of good deeds – he is from our town but he lives in the Gulf – told me he would fund my new battalion. He says he will pay for our ammunition and we get to keep all the spoils of the fighting. We just have to supply him with videos.’

‘But why would he do that? What’s he getting in return?’

‘He wants to appease God, and he wants us to give him videos of all our operations. That’s all – just YouTube videos.’

‘So he can get more money.’

‘Well, that’s up to him.’



http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n04/ghaith-abdul-ahad/how-to-start-a-battalion-in-five-easy-lessons

An excellent read that gives you insight about how opposition is and especially was getting money and weapons, about western support and rise of jihadists.

ImpNavigator
02-14-2013, 09:40 AM
How to Start a Battalion (in Five Easy Lessons)
Ghaith Abdul-Ahad reports from Syria

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n04/ghaith-abdul-ahad/how-to-start-a-battalion-in-five-easy-lessons

An excellent read that gives you insight about how opposition is and especially was getting money and weapons, about western support and rise of jihadists.

Thanks, indeed very interesting read.

Camera
02-14-2013, 10:07 AM
How to Start a Battalion (in Five Easy Lessons)

Ghaith Abdul-Ahad reports from Syria



http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n04/ghaith-abdul-ahad/how-to-start-a-battalion-in-five-easy-lessons

An excellent read that gives you insight about how opposition is and especially was getting money and weapons, about western support and rise of jihadists.

Thanks for posting, very interesting. It confirms what we understood long ago.

ImpNavigator
02-14-2013, 11:11 AM
According source of Interfax news agency, Russia delivered new batch of the Pantsir-S1 short-range anti-aircraft systems to the Syria at the beginning of this year.
http://www.interfax.ru/news.asp?id=290443 (in Russian)

Camera
02-14-2013, 01:45 PM
Le Monde reports that the rebels shot down 2 military aircraft today in the Idlib region.

Genotype
02-14-2013, 02:10 PM
Anyone got a good source of news about the battle in al-Shaddada?

I can't find much more than the BBC article.

ImpNavigator
02-14-2013, 02:14 PM
Le Monde reports that the rebels shot down 2 military aircraft today in the Idlib region.

At the moment, I found a video confirmation only one lost - Su-22.

geolocator
02-14-2013, 02:19 PM
Some digest of recent articles from ria.ru about Russian weapons in Syria

MOSCOW, February 13 (RIA Novosti) - Russia’s state-run arms dealer Rosoboronexport is supplying air-defense missile systems and maintenance and servicing equipment to Syria but not combat aircraft, the company's director Anatoly Isaikin said on Wednesday.
Russia and Syria have previously signed a contract for delivery to Damascus of Yak-130 Mitten jet trainers, but it has been suspended, he added.



The company still has some other outstanding contracts with Syria, Isaikin said, but did not provide any details, citing commercial confidentiality.

No detriment for business.

Isaikin said a $4.5 billion arms contract Russia signed with Iraq in 2012 remains intact but has "yet to go into force." Cooperation with Iran continues and Russia has resumed dealings with Libya, Isaikin said, adding it has not lost a single contract with Egypt.


He also claimed a Russian-US follow-on contract for the delivery of 12 Mi-171 helicopters to Afghanistan will be carried out, despite the US Congress’ recommendations against cooperation with Rosoboronexport.

Business is thriving without Syria as customers know that they'll get weapons in any case.

Russia signed a total of 1,309 arms contracts with 65 countries worth $17.6 billion (http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20130213/179446381/Russia-Signs-Record-176-Bln-in-Arms-Contracts-in-2012--------.html)in 2012, 150 percent more than in 2011 in terms of monetary value, Isaikin said on Wednesday.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20130213/179443688/No-Warplanes-for-Syria-Says-Russian-Arms-Sales-Boss.html

Camera
02-14-2013, 04:11 PM
Anyone got a good source of news about the battle in al-Shaddada?

I can't find much more than the BBC article.

It was reportedly captured:


Syrian rebels capture eastern oil field

Opposition forces battle President Bashar Assad forces in Aleppo’s airport for third consecutive day


BEIRUT (AP) — Syrian rebels captured most of an oil field in the energy-rich northeast on Thursday, the latest in a string of strategic conquests this week that also included a dam and the defenses around a major airport.

The opposition fighters trying to oust authoritarian President Bashar Assad also captured the town of Shadadah, near the Jbeysa oil field in hotly contested Hasaka province, according to Rami Abdul-Rahman, head of the Britain-based activist group Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

The oil field is in an energy-rich area along Syria’s border with Iraq. Abdul-Rahman said the rebels captured about 70 percent of the oil field but there was still sporadic gunfire in the area.


Opposition fighters were also battling regime forces for the third straight day for control of the main airport in the northern city of Aleppo.

On Wednesday, the rebels knocked down army defenses and closed in on the country’s second largest airport in Aleppo, Syria’s main commercial hub.

CONTINUED: http://www.timesofisrael.com/syrian-rebels-capture-eastern-oil-field/

prince99x
02-14-2013, 04:20 PM
They support actively the war effort, so there's no much difference.No much difference are u kidding ?.If right then Syria is being fought by 100+ country.

tanks_alot
02-14-2013, 04:27 PM
No much difference are u kidding ?.If right then Syria is being fought by 100+ country.

There's a difference between foreigners volunteering of their own volition and a country sending it's elite military force.

Camera
02-14-2013, 04:42 PM
No much difference are u kidding ?.If right then Syria is being fought by 100+ country.

Hezbollah, who some consider as the best fighters in Syria, are commanded by the Quds Force. If this is not a participation to the warfare, I don't know what it is.

Otherwise, what people say about the developments of the last days with so many bad news for Assad's supporters?

geolocator
02-14-2013, 05:08 PM
MOSCOW, February 13 (RIA Novosti) – The United States is shifting toward Russia's position on Syria, in fear of a repeat of the "Afghan scenario" with an Islamist regime coming to power there, a senior Russian lawmaker said on Wednesday.
“There is one moment in which our American friends are starting to get closer to our position… In particular, they have acknowledged that the fall of Syria’s administraton could unleash the most unfavorable consequences,” State Duma Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Alexei Pushkov told journalists on Wednesday.
“The Americans have understood that if everything collapses, we will have another Afghanistan,” Pushkov said, but did not support his claim with any evidence for his claim.
The rebel groups in Syria are supported by radical Islamist forces linked to international terrorist organizations, Pushkov said, adding this poses a danger to Christians, Shiites and other minorities in Syria.
“That’s why I think it is not about [Russia] shifting its positions, but it is about the West getting closer to recognizing our arguments,” Pushkov said.
He reiterated that Russia, which remains a staunch ally of Syria, will not agree to setting President Bashar al-Assad’s resignation as a precondition for peace talks.
“The Americans want us to use our pressure to oust Assad. I think we will not accept this, because we believe this is wrong. But we can use our influence to start the negotiation process, we are ready for this,” Pushkov said.

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130213/179444737/US-Shifts-Syria-Stance-as-Afghan-Scenario-Unfolds---Deputy.html

themacedonian
02-14-2013, 05:26 PM
How to Start a Battalion (in Five Easy Lessons)

Ghaith Abdul-Ahad reports from Syria



http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n04/ghaith-abdul-ahad/how-to-start-a-battalion-in-five-easy-lessons

An excellent read that gives you insight about how opposition is and especially was getting money and weapons, about western support and rise of jihadists.

Very informative. Thank you.

Camera
02-14-2013, 06:20 PM
Lebanon's Hariri says Syria's Assad fall 'inevitable'

Reuter$
02/14/2013 22:11

BEIRUT - Lebanese opposition leader Saad al-Hariri predicted on Thursday the downfall of Syrian President Bashar Assad, whom he accuses of assassinating his father in a massive bomb attack in 2005.

"The regime of Bashar al-Assad will inevitably go down. And its collapse will be loud not only in Syria but across the Arab world," Hariri said, speaking by a video link from Riyadh to mark the eight anniversary of his father's assassination.

Rafik al-Hariri, a former prime minister of Lebanon, was killed by an explosion detonated near his motorcade in Beirut.

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=303339

Siempre_Leal
02-14-2013, 06:24 PM
Britain Warns Of Syria Jihadist Threat To Europe



LONDON: The longer Syria's conflict goes on, the greater the risk it will breed a new generation of battle-hardened militants who will pose a threat to Britain and other countries in Europe, British Foreign Secretary William Hague said on Thursday.


Hague aimed his comments at Russia, which has had its own problems with attacks by Islamist militants, and has along with China repeatedly blocked U.N. Security Council action against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.



http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2013/Feb-14/206525-britain-warns-of-syria-jihadist-threat-to-europe.ashx#axzz2KumB70Cf

Ayash
02-14-2013, 07:09 PM
Anyone got a good source of news about the battle in al-Shaddada?

I can't find much more than the BBC article.

From SOHR facebook page:



Hasakah province: Rebel fighters from Jabhat al-Nusra have taken almost full control over the city of al-Shadadi, after violent clashes that lasted for 3 days. Sporadic gunfire can be heard coming from the area by the Military Intelligence branch of the city, it is thought that its surrounding buildings are manned by snipers. Violent clashes are taking place with the regime checkpoints in the outskirts of the city. Jabhat al-Nusra have used several suicide car bombs during the 3 days of fighting. 30 Jabhat al-Nusra fighters were killed by the clashes, 5 of them were non-Syrian fighters (they were Kuwaiti and Iraqi). No less than 100 members of the regular army and security services were also killed. There are also reports that tens of civilian workers at the Syrian oil company were killed after al-Nusra fighters took large parts of the oil fields and the residential quarters of the workers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFGhApQVnoM

geolocator
02-14-2013, 07:39 PM
Civilians were killed again.

Prés de 132 jeunes dont la majorité des tunisiens ont été tués hier, mardi 12 février 2013, à la cité syrienne d’Alep, selon notre correspondant à Sidi Bouzid, Ali Falhi.


Nearly 132 young people, the majority of Tunisians were killed yesterday, Tuesday, February 12, 2013, the Syrian city of Aleppo, according to our correspondent in Sidi Bouzid, Ali Falhi.
http://www.radioexpressfm.com/news/show/plusieurs-jeunes-tunisiens-ont-retrouve-la-mort-hier-a-alep

prince99x
02-14-2013, 09:02 PM
Civilians were killed again.http://www.radioexpressfm.com/news/show/plusieurs-jeunes-tunisiens-ont-retrouve-la-mort-hier-a-alepGod bless SAA,what a legendary stand against hell difficulties.

bionic
02-14-2013, 09:23 PM
Britain Warns Of Syria Jihadist Threat To Europe



http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2013/Feb-14/206525-britain-warns-of-syria-jihadist-threat-to-europe.ashx#axzz2KumB70Cf

I have to say this now but this Islamophobia (Jihadistphobia) is so overrated it annoys the heck out of me that they get so much attention.
Just some numbers to put this into perspective.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/index.html



World
Deaths in millions
% of deaths


Ischaemic heart disease
7.25
12.8%


Stroke and other cerebrovascular disease
6.15
10.8%


Lower respiratory infections
3.46
6.1%


Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease
3.28
5.8%


Diarrhoeal diseases
2.46
4.3%


HIV/AIDS
1.78
3.1%


Trachea, bronchus, lung cancers
1.39
2.4%


Tuberculosis
1.34
2.4%


Diabetes mellitus
1.26
2.2%


Road traffic accidents
1.21
2.1%



The NCTC numbers for 2011 speaks of only 12.533(worldwide) terror victims (0.01 millions) of which 75% are located in south Asia and the near East ( not differentiating between left, right , islamistic terror acts)

The 2011 Top 15 Countries (Deaths)

Afghanistan 3.353
Iraq 3.063
Pakistan 2.033
Somalia 1.101
Nigeria 593
India 479
Colombia 305
Thailand 238
Russia 189
Sudan 189
Philippines 188
Yemen 158
Congo 99
Norway 91 <- 77 victims of Breivik :-(
Syria 52


I think the chance of dying from contaminated horse meat is a million times higher in Britain at the moment, i don´t think they have to fear the Jihadists:lol:
Also unless they at least reach the death numbers of Road traffic accidents i don´t start to worry at all or is someone of you guys not going outside because of reckless cyclists?

Siempre_Leal
02-14-2013, 09:26 PM
I think the chance of dying from contaminated horse meat is a million times higher in Britain at the moment, i don´t think they have to fear the Jihadists:lol:
Also unless they at least reach the death numbers of Road traffic accidents i don´t start to worry at all or is someone of you guys not going outside because of reckless cyclists?

I run them over "accidently" when they get out of their bike lane.....;)

bionic
02-14-2013, 09:42 PM
I run them over "accidently" when they get out of their bike lane.....;)
I have this one for my car :lol:;-)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=195753&d=1360892463

195753

BloodyTalon
02-14-2013, 09:56 PM
I have this one for my car :lol:;-)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=195753&d=1360892463

195753
:lol:Reminds me of the scoring system from Death Race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2x7gHxQYYE

bionic
02-14-2013, 10:18 PM
:lol:Reminds me of the scoring system from Death Race

Don´t wanted to derail the thread and don´t know if it is even funny but whats the deal?

We make jokes about car accidents (in russia thats even some kind of sport), we promote smoking in TV..... but we fear people on the other side of the world fighting for their freedom?
Those fearmonger they are the guys who should be jailed and held accountable for every soldier or civilian who has died because of their fearmongering.
In my eyes they are the same kind of guys like the al-Quaida guys who want to spread their hate. If you put both inside a bag and you hit them you can´t hit the wrong.

ZapB
02-15-2013, 05:30 AM
I'm ok with comparing the islamist threat with diarrhoea, but this should be done more thoroughly, because getting killed by it is only one of the negative aspects of islamism. Diarrhoea usually doesn’t threat the social structure of the host country, by spreading a violent un-democratic abusive supremacist ideology. Women doesn't become 2nd class citizens when they get diarrhoea, but they do when they catch islamism. People of all faiths and political opinions are perfectly equal under the law if they have diarrhoea, but they aren't if that law is dictated by islamism.. etc..

Flamming_Python
02-15-2013, 06:06 AM
Britain Warns Of Syria Jihadist Threat To Europe



http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2013/Feb-14/206525-britain-warns-of-syria-jihadist-threat-to-europe.ashx#axzz2KumB70Cf

Looks like they thought it would all be over by Christmas eh; a quick revolution and armed overthrow, and a new pro-Western government p-)


We make jokes about car accidents (in russia thats even some kind of sport),

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/smilies/icon_neutral.gif wut?

Flamming_Python
02-15-2013, 06:09 AM
Hezbollah, who some consider as the best fighters in Syria, are commanded by the Quds Force. If this is not a participation to the warfare, I don't know what it is.

Otherwise, what people say about the developments of the last days with so many bad news for Assad's supporters?

I'd say a lot of it is rebel propaganda; some true but embellished, some wildly exaggerated or missing certain facts, some just false
If you look at the Syrian state news agencies; they are full of success stories - except ones for the Syrian army.
Problem is that few people post them on this thread.

Who's to say what's really going on?

Camera
02-15-2013, 06:21 AM
I'd say a lot of it is rebel propaganda; some true but embellished, some wildly exaggerated or missing certain facts, some just false

And do you have any source to support this opinion?


If you look at the Syrian state news agencies; they are full of success stories - except ones for the Syrian army.
Problem is that few people post them on this thread.

Syrian state agencies are useless. They Syrians themselves used to say that 'SANA lies all the time, except for the weather predictions from time to time'.


Who's to say what's really going on?

I trust the Israeli Military Intelligence reports to the Knesset Defense Committee. They are professional and have for goal to portray the situation as accurately as possible.

jokuvaan
02-15-2013, 06:31 AM
http://yle.fi/uutiset/customs_investigate_military_shipment_to_syria_via_finland/6497594


Finnish Customs are investigating an apparent attempt to smuggle parts of an armoured personnel carrier to war-torn Syria through Finland. The shipment originated in Russia.

Flamming_Python
02-15-2013, 06:44 AM
And do you have any source to support this opinion?

Syrian state agencies are useless.

I can turn this arguement on its head - do you have any source to support this sort of opinion that you have about official Syrian sources?


They Syrians themselves used to say that 'SANA lies all the time, except for the weather predictions from time to time'.

And which Syrians are those? Here we have one on this very thread that supports Assad and claims that the rebels are suffering defeats.
Of course SANA is propaganda though; it can't be trusted at face value. But no more and no less than the rebel sources.


I trust the Israeli Military Intelligence reports to the Knesset Defense Committee. They are professional and have for goal to portray the situation as accurately as possible.
Sure, but who's asking them? The vast majority of 'news' in this thread aren't from Israeli MILINT sources.

kalerab
02-15-2013, 06:52 AM
Well, SANA, al-Watan, Dunniya and others were for about 2 months claiming how rebels around Damascus were on bring on annihilation, how Darayya was captured and only "remnants" remained which were being cleansed and yadayadayada and afterwards rebels push into Damascus city and Syrian army, with elite 4th and Republican Guard mobilized, is slowly pushed back while retaking no district (so far). That surely tells you something about state-owned media.

Camera
02-15-2013, 07:15 AM
I can turn this arguement on its head - do you have any source to support this sort of opinion that you have about official Syrian sources?

This:


Well, SANA, al-Watan, Dunniya and others were for about 2 months claiming how rebels around Damascus were on bring on annihilation, how Darayya was captured and only "remnants" remained which were being cleansed and yadayadayada and afterwards rebels push into Damascus city and Syrian army, with elite 4th and Republican Guard mobilized, is slowly pushed back while retaking no district (so far). That surely tells you something about state-owned media.

+ 40 years of my personal experience of a reader of Syrian state reports. But you knew the answer as well:


… SNIP…

Of course SANA is propaganda though; it can't be trusted at face value.

-------


But no more and no less than the rebel sources.

Rebels reports are are trustworthy when they are backed by vids.


Sure, but who's asking them? The vast majority of 'news' in this thread aren't from Israeli MILINT sources.

I don't read all the newspapers, so you may be right. The ones I read are usually reliable, even though it's wise to take nothing they say for granted unless it is supported by solid sources.

Ayash
02-15-2013, 07:23 AM
Well, SANA, al-Watan, Dunniya and others were for about 2 months claiming how rebels around Damascus were on bring on annihilation, how Darayya was captured and only "remnants" remained which were being cleansed and yadayadayada and afterwards rebels push into Damascus city and Syrian army, with elite 4th and Republican Guard mobilized, is slowly pushed back while retaking no district (so far). That surely tells you something about state-owned media.
To be fair, the SAA has captured much of Darayya and pushed the rebels out of Aqraba and other areas along the airport road.

Camera
02-15-2013, 10:12 AM
Not even the Nazis did what Assad’s doing, says ex-Syrian PMDefected leader claims Iran is ‘actively running’ Syria days after reports surfaced that Islamic Republic, Hezbollah are building networks of militias there
By MICHAL SHMULOVICH (http://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/michal-shmulovich/)

The former prime minister of Syria delivered a harsh critique of the country’s president during an interview with al-Arabiya Friday, claiming that “not even the Nazis did what Bashar Assad’s doing in Syria.”

Riad Hijab, who defected from his post in Damascus six months ago, also told the Arabic-language news outlet that Iran is “actively running” Syria.

“Syria is occupied by the Iranian regime,” he said. “Who runs the country isn’t Bashar Assad but Kassem Suleimani, the head of Iran’s al-Quds Brigades [within the Revolutionary Guards].”

Hijab’s comments come less than a week after a Washington Post article claimed Iran and Hezbollah were “building a network of militias (http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-reportedly-setting-up-loyal-militias-in-syria/)” in Syria to protect their interests when Assad falls. The militias are fighting alongside the regime, sources told the newspaper, but also preparing for a day-after scenario in which Assad is gone. A senior Obama administration official put the number of Iranian mercenaries in Syria at 50,000.

CONTINUED: http://www.timesofisrael.com/not-even-the-nazis-did-what-assads-doing-says-ex-syrian-pm/

Pandemonium
02-15-2013, 11:12 AM
Not even the Nazis did what Assad’s doing, says ex-Syrian PM


Lol


Just saw that the number of casualties has been revised by the UN from 60 000 to 70 000.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/12/world/meast/syria-death-toll/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
It's an enormous waste of lives but I must admit that I thought that the number of casualties would be much greater given the amount of destruction that can be seen in videos and pictures from both sides and the use of heavy weapons in densely populated areas like Homs and Aleppo

seanbg
02-15-2013, 02:27 PM
This quote fit right on the topic:


Сирия, как почитать русские блоги, предстает каким-то бесконечно фантастическим местом, где лоялистские силы неуклонно, день за днем, все побеждают и побеждают повстанцев, при этом победы все ближе к Дамаску и во все большем числе мест, повстанцев все меньше, из них остаются одни наемники-иностранцы... А победоносных боев все больше, больше... И писателей ну совсем не смущает, что даже логика в самих их писаниях уже просто пропала: "побеждаем, побеждаем".
Как говорят, "их окружали милые улыбающиеся лица, медленно сжимая кольцо"

Hisroyalhighness
02-15-2013, 02:30 PM
This quote fit right on the topic:
Oh look, an opinion.

No Russian Troops in Syria Says Foreign Minister (http://www.militaryphotos.net/world/20130215/179491857.html)

MOSCOW, February 15 (RIA Novosti) - There are no Russian troops in Syria apart from several dozen technical staff at the Tartus naval support facility, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Friday in an interview with German TV channel ARD.

“It is not a military base but a ship maintenance and servicing point. It is not big enough to be called a military base,” he said.

Lavrov reiterated Russia’s official position that it is not carrying out fresh arms deliveries to the Syrian government.

“We have only completed the implementation of contracts for the delivery of air-defense systems to the Syrian government, which have already been paid for,” he said.

“The military equipment that we have delivered to Syria is designed to protect Syria against outside aggression,” Lavrov said, stressing it cannot be used in the course of the current civil conflict.

Russia’s state-run arms dealer Rosoboronexport said on Wednesday it is supplying air-defense missile systems and maintenance and servicing equipment to Syria, but not combat aircraft.

Russia and Syria have previously signed a contract for delivery to Damascus of Yak-130 Mitten advanced jet trainers (http://en.rian.ru/infographics/20120621/174128331.html), but it has been suspended, the company's director Anatoly Isaikin (http://en.ria.ru/world/20130213/179443688/No-Warplanes-for-Syria-Says-Russian-Arms-Sales-Boss.html) said. The company still has some other outstanding contracts with Syria, he said, but did not provide any details, citing commercial confidentiality.

Russia and the United States were involved in a diplomatic war of words (http://en.ria.ru/world/20130213/179443688/No-Warplanes-for-Syria-Says-Russian-Arms-Sales-Boss.html) last year over Moscow's arms sales to Syria, after Washington accused Russia of supplying attack helicopters to the al-Assad regime. Moscow denied those accusations, claiming it was merely returning equipment overhauled as part of long-standing contracts with Syria.

Navy chief Vice Admiral Viktor Chirkov said in July Russia will keep its naval base in the Syrian port of Tartus as it needs maintenance and technical support for Russian warships during anti-piracy missions in the Gulf of Aden.

Russia has repeatedly denied media reports that it was sending warships to Syria and delivering weapons to Damascus.

Camera
02-15-2013, 02:34 PM
This quote fit right on the topic:

What does it mean in English?

AgentKoba37
02-15-2013, 02:40 PM
This quote fit right on the topic:

To quickly translate - many Assad supporters claim Assad victories here and there yet the tide seems to be turning in rebels favour.

Is Assad winning? Obviously not. Are rebels making gains? It decidedly appears to be so. However IMO Assad forces are pursuing a strategy of utilizing the urban environment to absorb as much rebel manpower as they possibly can. Rebels push in and group up in sectors where they are hit with arty and air force.

There is still plenty of room for rebel gains since the many isolated bases around Syria are a relatively easy target. Does that mean rebels are decidedly winning the war? Not necessarily. Both sides still have the resources to commit to the fight. If Assad holds there is going to be a point when all the relatively easy tactical engagements have been won by the rebels and further progress will not be as easy or as apparent. If it wasn't for Nusra + C2 facilitated by 3rd parties factor IMO this war would be coming to an end right about now and not in rebels favour at all.

IMO if the rebels manage to breach some of the layered Damascus def held by 4th armored division we may see another force multiplier enter the theater on Assad side.

JGXL836
02-15-2013, 02:42 PM
What does it mean in English?


Syria, if you read some Russian blogs, appears to be an utterly fantastic place, where the loyalist forces persistently triumph over the rebels day after day, though their victories are closer and closer to Damascus, in a growing number of places...

e.t.c.....

seanbg
02-15-2013, 02:48 PM
What does it mean in English?

It means that 4 the russian blogers Syria is a wonderland where the SAA is wining over and over, day afther day, and these victorys is getting clocer to Damascus all the time, on more and more frontlines. But they dont evan bother by the lack of logic in that.

Surenas
02-15-2013, 02:49 PM
It means that 4 the russian blogers Syria is a wonderland where the SAA is wining over and over, day afther day, and these victorys is getting clocer to Damascus all the time, on more and more frontlines. But they dont evan bother by the lack of logic in that.

Why is that even relevant?

Hisroyalhighness
02-15-2013, 02:51 PM
Why is that even relevant?

Exactly, the quote is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand and only serves as an opinion of some anonymous nobody.

AgentKoba37
02-15-2013, 02:52 PM
Exactly, the quote is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand and only serves as an opinion of some anonymous nobody.

It's a bad attempt at trolling I guess

prince99x
02-15-2013, 03:17 PM
Not even the Nazis did what Assad¡¯s doing, says ex-Syrian PMDefected leader claims Iran is ¡®actively running¡¯ Syria days after reports surfaced that Islamic Republic, Hezbollah are building networks of militias thereBy MICHAL SHMULOVICH (http://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/michal-shmulovich/) The former prime minister of Syria delivered a harsh critique of the country¡¯s president during an interview with al-Arabiya Friday, claiming that ¡°not even the Nazis did what Bashar Assad¡¯s doing in Syria.¡±Riad Hijab, who defected from his post in Damascus six months ago, also told the Arabic-language news outlet that Iran is ¡°actively running¡± Syria.¡°Syria is occupied by the Iranian regime,¡± he said. ¡°Who runs the country isn¡¯t Bashar Assad but Kassem Suleimani, the head of Iran¡¯s al-Quds Brigades [within the Revolutionary Guards].¡±Hijab¡¯s comments come less than a week after a Washington Post article claimed Iran and Hezbollah were ¡°building a network of militias (http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-reportedly-setting-up-loyal-militias-in-syria/)¡± in Syria to protect their interests when Assad falls. The militias are fighting alongside the regime, sources told the newspaper, but also preparing for a day-after scenario in which Assad is gone. A senior Obama administration official put the number of Iranian mercenaries in Syria at 50,000.CONTINUED: http://www.timesofisrael.com/not-even-the-nazis-did-what-assads-doing-says-ex-syrian-pm/LoL ex pm is talking.He knows sh i t about Syria.It's not my opinion people ,u always lack a part of the story,this cowrad Ex pm who was left by the Syrian intelligence on purpose said in the first TV interview with him on Aljazeera that his job was limited to mange the gov business,and that he knows nothing about the military or the high political aspect of the Syrian regime,now the told him say this and that, it's all fu cking stupid lies with no single evidence of anything.Come on Camera u should had got used to those lies by now.

prince99x
02-15-2013, 03:17 PM
LolJust saw that the number of casualties has been revised by the UN from 60 000 to 70 000. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/12/world/meast/syria-death-toll/index.html?hpt=hp_t1It's an enormous waste of lives but I must admit that I thought that the number of casualties would be much greater given the amount of destruction that can be seen in videos and pictures from both sides and the use of heavy weapons in densely populated areas like Homs and AleppoIt would have been 1\4 million at least if SAA was using full force or if SAA wasn't careful on civilians.

seanbg
02-15-2013, 03:39 PM
It's a bad attempt at trolling I guess

I jus put a mirror 4 u guys. And trolling is the bull(you know wahat) about Assad's fake victorys. FSA is showing capturet military airports, hangars whit fighter jets inn, giant hydropower plants....... and at the same time SANNA+ANNA go into some hole to tell a story how she (the hole!) was captured by the SAA. Hahahahhahahahaha

Camera
02-15-2013, 03:40 PM
LoL ex pm is talking.He knows sh i t about Syria.It's not my opinion people ,u always lack a part of the story,this cowrad Ex pm who was left by the Syrian intelligence on purpose said in the first TV interview with him on Aljazeera that his job was limited to mange the gov business,and that he knows nothing about the military or the high political aspect of the Syrian regime,now the told him say this and that, it's all fu cking stupid lies with no single evidence of anything.Come on Camera u should had got used to those lies by now.

I tend to believe you that this guy is stupid. And this should prove you how stupid are your president Assad and the Baath regime who could appoint such guy as PM.

Hisroyalhighness
02-15-2013, 03:42 PM
LoL ex pm is talking.He knows sh i t about Syria.It's not my opinion people ,u always lack a part of the story,this cowrad Ex pm who was left by the Syrian intelligence on purpose said in the first TV interview with him on Aljazeera that his job was limited to mange the gov business,and that he knows nothing about the military or the high political aspect of the Syrian regime,now the told him say this and that, it's all fu cking stupid lies with no single evidence of anything.Come on Camera u should had got used to those lies by now.


I jus put a mirror 4 u guys. And trolling is the bull(you know wahat) about Assad's fake victorys. FSA is showing capturet military airports, hangars whit fighter jets inn, giant hydropower plants....... and at the same time SANNA+ANNA go into some hole to tell a story how she (the hole!) was captured by the SAA. Hahahahhahahahaha
I would love to know what would happen if we locked you two in a room.

Camera
02-15-2013, 03:49 PM
I jus put a mirror 4 u guys. And trolling is the bull(you know wahat) about Assad's fake victorys. FSA is showing capturet military airports, hangars whit fighter jets inn, giant hydropower plants....... and at the same time SANNA+ANNA go into some hole to tell a story how she (the hole!) was captured by the SAA. Hahahahhahahahaha

I'm telling them from the start that Assad is doomed, but some of them won't listen.

kalerab
02-15-2013, 03:56 PM
I would love to know what would happen if we locked you two in a room.

Isn´t one civil war enough?

Flamming_Python
02-15-2013, 03:59 PM
I'm telling them from the start that Assad is doomed, but some of them won't listen.

We're still waiting on that Assad bro...

kalerab
02-15-2013, 04:02 PM
Christians Squeezed Out by Violent Struggle in North Syria


MIDYAT, TURKEY — The bright voices of children at play echoed off the ancient walls of Mor Hanonyo last week, breaking centuries of stillness in this 1,600-year-old Syriac Orthodox monastery outside Mardin in southeastern Turkey. Little boys skipped around the monastery courtyard zipped up in quilted winter jackets, while their elders huddled indoors and lamented the violence and mayhem that have forced them to flee their homes in Syria.

One mother told of the abduction of a neighbor’s child, held for ransom by rebel fighters in her hometown of Al-Hasakah, which prompted her family to seek safety for their three young sons across the border in Turkey. A young man demonstrated how he was hung by his arms, robbed and beaten by rebels, “just for being a Christian.”

Violence against Christians is escalating in the governorate of Al-Hasakah in northeastern Syria, which is home to tens of thousands of Syriac Christians, the refugees said.

The region, known locally as the Jazeera, encompasses the districts of Ras al-Ain, Qamishli and Malikiyah. With government forces, Arab rebels of the Free Syrian Army and Kurdish fighters locked in a three-way struggle for control, the area’s Christian population has found itself caught in the middle.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/world/middleeast/christians-squeezed-out-by-violent-struggle-in-north-syria.html?pagewanted=all

Camera
02-15-2013, 04:09 PM
We're still waiting on that Assad bro...

I admit it's lengthy, but the process seems unstoppable.

prince99x
02-15-2013, 04:16 PM
I tend to believe you that this guy is stupid. And this should prove you how stupid are your president Assad and the Baath regime who could appoint such guy as PM.Finally we agree on a part of something.President Asad IQ beat alot of % of the world presidents and we can accept that (as Syrian people).For the appointment aspect,u should know its not only rested on President Asad choice,Ex pm was good in his ex jobs but not good enough as PM,everyone has abilities and that's his limit beside the sectarian aspect specifically his original Tribe pressure on him.

geolocator
02-15-2013, 04:25 PM
I'm telling them from the start that Assad is doomed, but some of them won't listen.
Last year I heard from Israel tha Assad downfall is inevitable in three weeks, then it was 3 month, now you like CO tell that he's doomed. We all doomed and will die. Assad can be in power for years, just like Hezbollah controls a part of Lebanon.

Camera
02-15-2013, 04:30 PM
Finally we agree on a part of something.President Asad IQ beat alot of % of the world presidents and we can accept that (as Syrian people).For the appointment aspect,u should know its not only rested on President Asad choice,Ex pm was good in his ex jobs but not good enough as PM,everyone has abilities and that's his limit beside the sectarian aspect specifically his original Tribe pressure on him.

That's why I said 'Assad and the Baath regime' were stupid, if the guy is stupid, because he still had a high ranking post prior to his appointment as PM.

AgentKoba37
02-15-2013, 04:32 PM
I jus put a mirror 4 u guys. And trolling is the bull(you know wahat) about Assad's fake victorys. FSA is showing capturet military airports, hangars whit fighter jets inn, giant hydropower plants....... and at the same time SANNA+ANNA go into some hole to tell a story how she (the hole!) was captured by the SAA. Hahahahhahahahaha

Sigh... ok sure pumpkin. Whatever makes you happy.

Camera
02-15-2013, 04:34 PM
Last year I heard from Israel tha Assad downfall is inevitable in three weeks, then it was 3 month, now you like CO tell that he's doomed. We all doomed and will die. Assad can be in power for years, just like Hezbollah controls a part of Lebanon.

If you were right, this thread is promised to a long life.

AgentKoba37
02-15-2013, 04:37 PM
If you were right, this thread is promised to a long life.

Assad dies Russia looses. Russia will make sure that while still technically in power Assad survives. Ppl will obviously disagree with my assessment but IMO it is as simple as that. All high powered Syrians who needed to be taken out for this process to be facilitated were removed early on. Assad stayed alive for a reason. Measures are being taken to keep him alive as it is now a matter of keeping the idea of Eurasian Union viable and accomplishable in a certain time frame. That's the bottom line. So I would not keep my hopes high in regards to Assad being taken out of action any time soon. That will take more than a one trick pony Nusra to accomplish and even all the advisors in the theater may find it an interesting challenge

Camera
02-15-2013, 04:41 PM
Assad dies Russia looses. Russia will make sure that while still technically in power Assad survives. Ppl will obviously disagree with my assessment but IMO it is as simple as that. All high powered Syrians who needed to be taken out for this process to be facilitated were removed early on. Assad stayed alive for a reason. Measures are being taken to keep him alive as it is now a matter of keeping the idea of Eurasian Union viable

I understand the Russian perception, but I fail to see what Russia could do to reverse the process through which Assad loses ground by the day.

AgentKoba37
02-15-2013, 04:44 PM
I understand the Russian perception, but I fail to see what Russia could do to reverse the process through which Assad loses ground by the day.

Russia is ok with Assad being disposed of. However this has to happen on Russia's terms. Otherwise more ppl will die in the futile attempt of getting rid of Assad

Camera
02-15-2013, 04:52 PM
Russia is ok with Assad being disposed of. It has to happen on Russia's terms. Otherwise more ppl will die in the futile attempt of getting rid of Assad

It's not so futile. The guy loses ground and control on a daily basis, his armed forces face constant attrition. This destructive process seems to accelerate…

AgentKoba37
02-15-2013, 04:53 PM
It's not so futile. The guy loses ground and control on a daily basis, his armed forces face constant attrition. This destructive process seems to accelerate…

Yeah well we will see what happens when 4th armored is all dead.

You fail to appreciate the stakes in this game of poker. There is room for more grief in this if some continue to insist in resolving the situation with total disregard to Russia. There is room to spread this beyond Syria as well. Hell will look like a better place to be in than Syria before this mission is considered "accomplished"

I get the impression what Lavrov hints falls on deaf ears. The West is not listening. Maybe it's time to speak in terms that are better understood

Camera
02-15-2013, 05:02 PM
Yeah well we will see what happens when 4th armored is all dead.

You fail to appreciate the stakes in this game of poker. There is room for more grief in this if some continue to insist in resolving the situation with total disregard to Russia. There is room to spread this beyond Syria as well. Hell will look like a better place to be in than Syria before this mission is considered "accomplished"

I get the impression what Lavrov hints falls on deaf ears. The West is not listening. Maybe it's time to speak in terms that are better understood

I fail to understand what Russia could do more about what's going on in Syria. Can you elaborate?

AgentKoba37
02-15-2013, 05:17 PM
I fail to understand what Russia could do more about what's going on in Syria. Can you elaborate?

Let it be a surprise. Not to mention my mumbling on the topic may seem a bit radical to you at this point.

Camera
02-15-2013, 05:20 PM
Let it be a surprise.

Are you the COS of the Russian armed forces?


Not to mention my mumbling on the topic may seem a bit radical to you at this point.

I'm just trying to understand.

Camera
02-15-2013, 06:45 PM
EU battle over move to ease arms flow for Syrian rebels

British and French attempts to lift the EU arms embargo that is hampering the flow of weapons to Syrian rebels fighting President Bashar al-Assad are being blocked by powerful states including Germany.

By Bruno Waterfield (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/bruno-waterfield/), in Brussels, and Richard Spencer in Cairo

William Hague wants the embargo on supplying arms to the country to be modified and will put the proposal to EU ministers on Monday.

But his proposals have been rebuffed by Sweden, Germany and Baroness Ashton, the EU foreign affairs chief, according to diplomats.

A package of EU sanctions is due for renewal at the start of March and Britain wants them to be altered to allow some equipment to be sent to the opposition Syrian National Coalition.

Mr Hague is afraid that, starved of supplies, rebel groups friendlier to the West are being outshone and outgunned by jihadists, who are armed by sympathisers in the Gulf and could subsequently pose a threat to Western interests.

But Lady Ashton and a majority of European countries are likely to put up "firm opposition" at "challenging and dynamic talks", arguing that arming the rebels risks deepening the conflict, killing off peace talks, alienating Russia and blocking progress at the United Nations.

"Syrian civilians are unprotected and the moderate opposition is fighting a difficult campaign," a source said. "No one is looking at this stage to free up weapons assistance but this is not the time to tie our hands with extra knots or restrictive lists of what is and isn't allowed."

Diplomats and officials report that Britain is "angry and frustrated" at obstruction to its proposals from other EU countries, led by the Nordic bloc with German support. The splits are so deep there is a risk, say senior diplomats, that the EU sanctions regime against Syria might collapse because of insufficient agreement to renew them by March 1.

CONTINUED: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9873952/EU-battle-over-move-to-ease-arms-flow-for-Syrian-rebels.html

prince99x
02-15-2013, 07:28 PM
That's why I said 'Assad and the Baath regime' were stupid, if the guy is stupid, because he still had a high ranking post prior to his appointment as PM.Read all my lines,i fail to understand why can't u understand my logical reasoning of ,i mean here in Syria war not only stupidity have role in person actions,the actions can be related and controlled by many factors,specifically the sectarian factor specially in this war.

prince99x
02-15-2013, 07:35 PM
I admit it's lengthy, but the process seems unstoppable.Not only that u will admit,however the absence of President Asad in anyway will unleash the deadliest sectarian war in middle east,it will last decades,and what is going on in Syria right now is a 0.001 second of the 120 min full movie.

Rebel44CZ
02-15-2013, 08:42 PM
Not only that u will admit,however the absence of President Asad in anyway will unleash the deadliest sectarian war in middle east,it will last decades,and what is going on in Syria right now is a 0.001 second of the 120 min full movie.

Thats pretty absurd - even if by some miracle current regime is able to hold frontline and considering large weapons stockpile which Syria had before this civil war, with current tempo of operations, SAA would run out of tanks, APCs, aircraft etc. etc. in less than 2 years.

Since SAA is unable to even lift siege of Aleppo, let alone retake any significant territory, I doubt that SAA has any chance of winning.

AgentKoba37
02-15-2013, 08:52 PM
Thats pretty absurd - even if by some miracle current regime is able to hold frontline and considering large weapons stockpile which Syria had before this civil war, with current tempo of operations, SAA would run out of tanks, APCs, aircraft etc. etc. in less than 2 years.

Since SAA is unable to even lift siege of Aleppo, let alone retake any significant territory, I doubt that SAA has any chance of winning.

You talk as if the other side is immune to attrition and massive famine. Let us see who survives two years of that. Not to mention the neighboring regions will be going through a crisis or two of their own IMO

AgentKoba37
02-15-2013, 09:07 PM
Health Crisis Building in Jordan Due to Syrian Refugees


Jordan"s health system is beginning to crack under the strain of caring for 340,000 Syrian refugees. Amman is seeking help with the effort. "The pressure is beyond the health sector"s strength to continue providing services for the refugees," Jordanian Health Minister Abdul Latif Wreikat said bluntly on Thursday, according to Bernama, the Malaysian national news agency.
Chronic diseases have been discovered among a large number of the Syrians who fled across the border to safety in Jordan as well, Wreikat said. This has led to a drop in supplies of medicines in some of the hospitals and health care centers, he warned. "We welcome any assistance to help enhance our capability to provide services to the Syrian refugees," Wreikat said.
In Washington D.C., Jordanian Minister of Planning and International Cooperation, Jafar Hassan met with reporters and analysts at the Jordanian Embassy to underscore the magnitude of the problem.
"Jordan is in no way positioned to spend the resources that are needed for this, simply because it does not have the resources," said Hassan. The Hashemite Kingdom currently has an unemployment rate of 13 percent.
An average of 2,000 Syrian refugees has crossed the border into Jordan each day over the past month, he said. Of the 340,000 Syrian refugees currently in the country, 55 percent are children – and nearly every family suffers from disease or injury that requires immediate treatment.
The influx has also resulted in an increase in rent in some urban areas, leading to difficulties for local Jordanians who "might not be able to afford apartments anymore," Fitzcharles noted. He warned it was important to help the Syrians build support within their own host communities in order to "avoid potential tension and break the isolation of refugees."


But Jordanian officials maintain the issue is not one of a lack of good will, but rather an issue of resources.
"I am not saying the good will will run out," Hassan said, according to The Washington Times. "I am saying the resources are running out."

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/wap/Item.aspx?type=0&item=165245

AgentKoba37
02-15-2013, 11:54 PM
Lavrov dismissive of Syrian opposition


Russia's foreign minister has dismissed the Syrian opposition as offering nothing constructive since the uprising began.


In an hour-long interview with the German broadcaster ARD, Sergei Lavrov urged the opposition to abandon preconditions for talks with the Assad government.


The price for insisting on the removal of Assad before talks begin, will be more violence, he said.


Lavrov conceded that the reforms offered by Assad were too little, too late, and that the Syrian president was not “really getting in line with events”.


But he claimed Assad was offering a form of dialogue which the opposition should seize.


The opposition is not offering any political alternative. The only thing which is uniting the opposition is toppling the regime ... In almost two years [the opposition] never produced any constructive platform.


Lavrov insisted that last June's Geneva agreement, which does not explicitly call for Assad to go, should be the basis for a settlement.


He said that Assad has made it clear he has no intention of standing down, so insisting that he leaves only prolongs the conflict, Lavrov argued.


He said Syria was locked in a “vicious circle” of violence from both sides.


Either we have to want to save lives, and then we have to forget about who is responsible for the time being, and to bring all of them to the negotiating table, or we don’t care about care about lives and care about Assad fate.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2013/feb/15/syria-crisis-opposition-rules-out-assad-talks-live#block-511e32bb95cb419168cb3fd9

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 02:09 AM
Finland Halts Tank Parts From Russia to Syria



FFinnish customs says it has intercepted a shipment of tank spare parts en route to Syria from Russia, suspecting it was in breach of a European Union ban on weapons exports to the war-torn country.


Customs Investigation Service chief Petri Lounatmaa says officers confiscated a container on a Finnish freighter on Jan. 8 because it did not have a transit license and found "9.6 tons of tank spare parts."


Lounatmaa on Friday not give details because of an ongoing investigation but said that it appeared to "involve a commercial transport from Russia to Syria." He said they were working with several international authorities but gave no details.


Three captains and a first mate of the ship were questioned but had been released. The ship also was given permission to sail.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=18511038

Finland taking sides?) Hmm

Rebel44CZ
02-16-2013, 02:40 AM
Finland Halts Tank Parts From Russia to Syria



http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=18511038

Finland taking sides?) Hmm

Its simple - when you send parts of military HW without proper licence, your shipment is illegal and if found will be confiscated.

Transfering such items via EU country is also pretty stupid, because EU ban is well known.

HHH816
02-16-2013, 06:46 AM
AMMAN (*******) - Rebels seized a town in an eastern oil-producing province of Syria on Thursday after three days of heavy fighting in which 30 Nusra Front fighters and 100 Syrian troops were killed, a violence monitoring group said.
Taking Shaddadeh in Hasakah province from the forces of President Bashar al-Assad brings the rebels closer to the provincial capital Hasakah, 45 km (30 miles) to the north.
Coinciding with the report by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights on the fighting was a video posted on YouTube showing fighters from the al Qaeda-linked Nusra Front celebrating and chanting "Allahu Akbar (God is Greatest), Nusra Nusra".
Omar Abu Laila, a spokesman for the eastern command of the rebel Free Syrian Army, said rebel units including Nusra fighters now controlled al-Shaddadeh after overrunning state security and military intelligence compounds.
Hasakah, an ethnically mixed province of Arabs and Kurds, accounts for most of Syria's oil output, which is estimated to have fallen by a third, to no more than 100,000 barrels per day, since an uprising against Assad's rule erupted in March 2011.
Abu Laila said an army garrison guarding a nearby gas field, al-Ghabsa, had fled as armed opposition units advanced from the Euphrates River toward Shaddadeh.
"Shaddadeh and Ghabsa are now under our out control. In the next few days we will advance toward Hasakah City," Abu Laila said, speaking by phone from eastern Syria.
He said Nusra detonated car bombs near the security compounds in Shaddadeh, enabling the attacking force to storm the buildings and take the city, a pattern seen in other areas taken over by the mostly Islamist armed opposition.
Al-Nusra, which includes Iraqi commanders, has experience in making car bombs and the group lately helped opposition fighters take over the main Thalatheen Street in southern Damascus by exploding a car bomb in a security compound, according to opposition sources.
The rebel advance in Hasakah province has raised concern among the political leadership of the opposition, which has little control over the rebels, about deepening ethnic tensions between Arabs and Kurds, who already have decades long land disputes in the province.
Assad has tried to placate Syria's one million Kurds since the uprising, promising to give citizenship to thousands of disenfranchised Kurds in Hasakah.
A tacit alliance has also emerged between Assad and the Syrian branch of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) which now a strong military presence in Hasakah and other Kurdish regions, to the discomfort of Turkey.
Massoud Akko, a Kurdish opposition campaigner in Norway in contact with Hasakah, confirmed that Shaddadeh has been overrun but said that taking Hasakah city would cause a bloodbath unless an agreement was reached with PKK fighters in the city.
"Taking a main city like Hasakah is important for the opposition but the PKK is entrenched there and an agreement with them has to be reached," Akko said.
Akko pointed to a deal this month which ended fighting in Ras al-Ain, a town on the border with Turkey northeast of Hasakah, were tens of peoples with killed in fighting between the PKK and the rebels who stormed the town in January.
(Reporting by Khaled Yacoub Oweis, Amman newsroom; Editing by Jon Hemming)

http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-rebels-capture-eastern-town-al-shaddadeh-sources-113003229.html


12345678910

Impartial Bias
02-16-2013, 07:17 AM
It would have been 1\4 million at least if SAA was using full force or if SAA wasn't careful on civilians.

I'm curious as to what you consider to be 'full force'?
Does full force mean going into cities and knocking off whole neighborhoods Hama '82 style?
In my eyes, neither the regime or the rebels care much for the position of the civilians in their respective combat zones.

Camera
02-16-2013, 07:49 AM
French defense minister calls for Assad’s ousterFrance weighing terrorist group classification for Hezbollah, according to report
By YOEL GOLDMAN (http://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/yoel-goldman/)

French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian called Saturday for regime change in Syria, indicating a stiffening stance on the part of his country regarding the fate of Bashar Assad.

Le Drian told a security forum in the United Arab Emirates that “it is more urgent than ever to act to overcome differences in favor of a political transition.” He clarified, “a transition in which President Assad would no longer keep his place.”

(…)

In related news, a French Foreign Ministry spokesman told Lebanese daily An-Nahar that his government was not ruling out declaring the Shi’ite group Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/french-defense-minister-calls-for-assads-ouster/

themacedonian
02-16-2013, 07:54 AM
French defense minister calls for Assad’s ouster

France weighing terrorist group classification for Hezbollah, according to report


By YOEL GOLDMAN (http://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/yoel-goldman/)

French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian called Saturday for regime change in Syria, indicating a stiffening stance on the part of his country regarding the fate of Bashar Assad.

Le Drian told a security forum in the United Arab Emirates that “it is more urgent than ever to act to overcome differences in favor of a political transition.” He clarified, “a transition in which President Assad would no longer keep his place.”

(…)

In related news, a French Foreign Ministry spokesman told Lebanese daily An-Nahar that his government was not ruling out declaring the Shi’ite group Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/french-defense-minister-calls-for-assads-ouster/

What? this so far was not a regime change? :)

Camera
02-16-2013, 07:55 AM
What? this so far was not a regime change? :)

I don't understand, the regime did not change.

Surenas
02-16-2013, 07:56 AM
Iranian cleric: Losing Syria is like losing Tehran


Mehdi Taeb , a Senior Iranian Shiite cleric offered the catchy headline in a speech yesterday to university student members of the Basij militia:

“Syria is the 35th province [of Iran] and a strategic province for us. If the enemy attacks us and wants to take either Syria or Khuzestan [in western Iran], the priority for us is to keep Syria….If we keep Syria, we can get Khuzestan back too, but if we lose Syria, we cannot keep Tehran.” Hojjat al-Islam Taeb, the head of the Ammar Strategic Base (an organization established to fight the “soft war” against the Islamic Republic of Iran) said.

(...)

Taeb also pointed to the Islamic Republic’s support of Syrian militias through Iranian advisors inside the the country. He explained:

Syria had an army, but did not have the ability to manage a war inside Syria’s cities. It is for this reason the Iranian government suggested that, to manage an urban war you must form a Basij …The Syrian Basij was formed with 60,000 [members] of Hezbollah , who took over the war in the streets from the army.”

http://www.yalibnan.com/2013/02/16/iranian-cleric-losing-syria-is-like-losing-tehran/

themacedonian
02-16-2013, 08:05 AM
I don't understand, the regime did not change.

French defence minister is calling for a regime change. My question was this so far not an attempt for regime change without actually publicly calling for it.

IconOfEvi
02-16-2013, 08:24 AM
Iranian cleric: Losing Syria is like losing Tehran



http://www.yalibnan.com/2013/02/16/iranian-cleric-losing-syria-is-like-losing-tehran/

lol now he's painted a bullseye on Syria's back rofl

Then again...well, Ordie said it best - its pretty hard to out trick the guys who invented poker

RedSquirrel
02-16-2013, 10:51 AM
Five Syrians hurt in battles between Syrian army forces and rebels were taken to the Ziv Medical Center in Safed, the IDF Spokesperson's Unit confirmed Saturday. One of the men is apparently in serious condition.

"An IDF force administered medical care to the five wounded men near the border fence and they were taken for further treatment," a statement said.

The hospital said the men were undergoing surgery but refused to give any other details. No further details were immediately available.

Earlier on Saturday, rebels attacked a military police barrage, in the Syrian Golan, only a few miles from the opposition (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284752,00.html), a few Syrian soldiers on scene were killed in the clashes between the two armies and the rest were taken prisoners.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4345557,00.html

IR5
02-16-2013, 02:09 PM
The opposition is not offering any political alternative. The only thing which is uniting the opposition is toppling the regime ... In almost two years [the opposition] never produced any constructive platform.

I actually agree 100% with Lavrov on this. We saw the consequences of this scenario in Egypt and Tunisia. Both are now nearing failed-state status, especially Egypt.

If Assad is actually removed without dialogue, Syria will become a failed state without recovery and will break apart quickly. No point in letting your country go down the *****ter permanently just to get back at the Assad regime.

Camera
02-16-2013, 03:01 PM
I actually agree 100% with Lavrov on this. We saw the consequences of this scenario in Egypt and Tunisia. Both are now nearing failed-state status, especially Egypt.

If Assad is actually removed without dialogue, Syria will become a failed state without recovery and will break apart quickly. No point in letting your country go down the *****ter permanently just to get back at the Assad regime.

Would it be better for Egypt if Mubarak returned to power?

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 03:07 PM
Would it be better for Egypt if Mubarak returned to power?

Would it be better for Israel though? I think so but too late for that now IMO

Camera
02-16-2013, 03:14 PM
Would it be better for Israel though? I think so but too late for that now IMO

Israel was aware of the dangers of Mubarak's fall with whom it had good relations. mMany Israelis warned about the Islamic risk and did not share the enthusiasm of the West regarding the Egyptian revolution.

IR5
02-16-2013, 03:14 PM
Would it be better for Egypt if Mubarak returned to power?

Why do you still fantasize about Mubarak? He is long gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

It's not like your country was exactly friendly to him when he was around, either. Remember the "let's bomb the Aswan Dam" and "Mubarak can go to hell"?

And to answer your question: No, it would not be better for Egypt. The reason Egypt is in trouble now is because of extreme suspicion against the President and the group behind him, basically leading to a government that cannot lead or function. Mubarak would be so much worse in that regard.

In case you forgot, that's basically the reason why Mubarak was overthrown.

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 03:16 PM
I think if Egypt can hold out for a few years, it should emerge stronger and more stable than before; because the MB-supporters and their opponents alike would have knocked heads together for long enough and by that time they'd figure out some compromises and ways to exist together for the sake of their own country.

But yeah for the time being it's a mess.

Camera
02-16-2013, 03:27 PM
Why do you still fantasize about Mubarak? He is long gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't fantasize, my question was a reaction of curiosity to your post regarding Assad in light of your experience in Egypt.



It's not like your country was exactly friendly to him when he was around, either. Remember the "let's bomb the Aswan Dam" and "Mubarak can go to hell"?

Meh... It was not said like that and the person who said it had no official post at the time. And what's the point reminding this isolated expression, since people in Egypt wished to Israel the worst constantly at the time of Mubarak as well as today.

IR5
02-16-2013, 03:28 PM
I think if Egypt can hold out for a few years, it should emerge stronger and more stable than before

Except Egypt can't hold out for much longer because of the absolute economic mess that it's been led to by the MB.

The only way out for Egypt is for the military to put a stop to Qatar's interference in Egypt's internal politics, for divisive figures to be removed from the MB Guidance Council, a crackdown against any Islamist who even hints at political violence and for early Presidential elections to be held.

Basically Al-Sisi needs to stop being a sissy and grow a set.

Camera
02-16-2013, 03:34 PM
Mubarak was a dictator, but could not compare to Assad in cruelty and extent of oppression.

Surenas
02-16-2013, 03:38 PM
The only way out for Egypt is for the military to put a stop to Qatar's interference in Egypt's internal politics, for divisive figures to be removed from the MB Guidance Council, a crackdown against any Islamist who even hints at political violence and for early Presidential elections.

Qatari influence? In which way?

Camera
02-16-2013, 03:39 PM
Qatari influence? In which way?

They fund the MB.

Surenas
02-16-2013, 03:42 PM
They fund the MB.

Than the Qataris differ from the Emiratis in how to deal with the MB, considering the arrest of MB figures in the UAE.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 03:44 PM
Israel was aware of the dangers of Mubarak's fall with whom it had good relations. mMany Israelis warned about the Islamic risk and did not share the enthusiasm of the West regarding the Egyptian revolution.

Yeah not much of a choice that was for Israel IMO Whatever shortcomings under Mubarak Egypt was more or less stable. He should have sensed the need for reforms at some point though

kalerab
02-16-2013, 03:46 PM
Than the Qataris differ from the Emiratis in how to deal with the MB, considering the arrest of MB figures in the UAE.

Of course. But Ikhwan is Qatar proxy in Maghrib. And thanks to that bunch of cherry folks Qatar popularity dropped from overwhelming to nearly non-existent in 2 years. Pretty formidable.

Camera
02-16-2013, 03:47 PM
Of course. But Ikhwan is Qatar proxy in Maghrib. And thanks to that bunch of cherry folks Qatar popularity dropped from overwhelming to nearly non-existent in 2 years. Pretty formidable.

Even Al Jazeera is hated in Egypt now.

Surenas
02-16-2013, 03:49 PM
Of course. But Ikhwan is Qatar proxy in Maghrib. And thanks to that bunch of cherry folks Qatar popularity dropped from overwhelming to nearly non-existent in 2 years. Pretty formidable.

Qataris seem to be quite active this decade, considering their support to the MB in Egypt, terrorist in Algeria, Mali, Hamas, etc. I wonder why the media isn't picking up this development. And and the US also remains silent on growing Qatari meddling in the MENA.

uzi4you
02-16-2013, 04:01 PM
There not going to be anything left of that nation to run after this is over!!

I know this is 6 weeks out of date. But its the best I could find! If you have a more current one. Please, post!

https://lh3.ggpht.com/-A8rCdP_8G3I/UN3NQ22gKqI/AAAAAAAABAU/1JXM3WC5bYg/s1600/syria_uprising_2012-12-28.png

geolocator
02-16-2013, 04:02 PM
Mubarak was a dictator, but could not compare to Assad in cruelty and extent of oppression.
Maybe you mean Hafez al-Assad? I can't see any outstanding cruelty and oppression in Bashar.

Camera
02-16-2013, 04:06 PM
Maybe you mean Hafez al-Assad? I can't see any outstanding cruelty and oppression in Bashar.

I can't see because you do not want to see. Both are the same and are ruling the same regime.

Jµµso
02-16-2013, 04:46 PM
How did Chinese made FN-6 MANPAD end up in Syria? Kinda scary when you think there might be more somewhere around the world just waiting for the buyer.

Unusually it appears the nearest country to Syria that uses this weapon is Sudan, with Malaysia, Cambodia, Peru, and Pakistan being other users. Not only is this the first foreign MANPADS recording in the conflict, but it really seems to have no business being anywhere near Syria, leaving some big questions with regards to it's source.
http://brown-moses.blogspot.fi/2013/02/first-sightings-of-foreign-manpads-in.html

IR5
02-16-2013, 05:00 PM
Mubarak was a dictator, but could not compare to Assad in cruelty and extent of oppression.

His crackdown resulted in the deaths of 1,000 people in under 18 days. If Mubarak had the full support of the military and had witnessed several regional dictators get overthrown (as Bashar did) he would have responded in a much more brutal way.


How did Chinese made FN-6 MANPAD end up in Syria? Kinda scary when you think there might be more somewhere around the world just waiting for the buyer.

http://brown-moses.blogspot.fi/2013/02/first-sightings-of-foreign-manpads-in.html

They probably were sold to a GCC state which then transferred them to Syrian rebels. Believe it or not, China doesn't make FMS announcements.

Jµµso
02-16-2013, 05:12 PM
They probably were sold to a GCC state which then transferred them to Syrian rebels. Believe it or not, China doesn't make FMS announcements.

That would be a risky move since those countries have their own terrorist problems, and who can guarantee that all MANPADS send to Syria are actually launched there? Very dangerous.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 05:17 PM
That would be a risky move since those countries have their own terrorist problems, and who can guarantee that all MANPADS send to Syria are actually launched there? Very dangerous.

They could be pressured. Rebels need gains and victory fast. Too many refugee problems on bleeding edges of this conflict

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 05:38 PM
I can't see because you do not want to see. Both are the same and are ruling the same regime.

What has Bashar Assad done that is so evil and repressive; prior to the current events anyway?

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 05:41 PM
What has Bashar Assad done that is so evil and repressive; prior to the current events anyway?

Bought expensive Italian shoes when some Syrians couldn't afford them? p-)

Everyone complained about lack of reforms especially Sunnis. I wonder how they feel now. In any case it is best if everyone puts the effort into trying to negotiate peace and gradual transition to a post Assad period instead of all the killing

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 05:42 PM
There not going to be anything left of that nation to run after this is over!!

I know this is 6 weeks out of date. But its the best I could find! If you have a more current one. Please, post!

https://lh3.ggpht.com/-A8rCdP_8G3I/UN3NQ22gKqI/AAAAAAAABAU/1JXM3WC5bYg/s1600/syria_uprising_2012-12-28.png

Predictable - the northern border with Turkey, with its short reinforcement/logistic lines from areas in nearby Turkey, is where the rebel presence is the most entrenched; what isn't under the controls of the Kurds anyway.
Probably a good idea for the rebels to defend that area too; lest their supply lines become under threat.

Camera
02-16-2013, 05:44 PM
What has Bashar Assad done that is so evil and repressive; prior to the current events anyway?

He ruled a police state whose oppression led to this uprising.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 05:44 PM
Predictable - the northern border with Turkey is where the rebel presence is the most entrenched; what isn't under the controls of the Kurds anyway.

The more rebels control the more problems they gain for themselves and their masters.

FSA is smart to keep most pressure away from Latakia Tartus for now as that could have unintentional consequences for them

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 05:46 PM
He ruled a police state whose oppression led to this uprising.

**** that. What about Saudi Arabia? Why don't we have an uprising there? It's an islamofascist state where most 911 hijackers came from but no got forbid smth happens to them. Or how about oppressed minorities of Bahrain? Please Camera stop it with moralizing this thing. You starting to sound like a broken politburo propaganda record p-)

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 05:47 PM
Bought expensive Italian shoes when some Syrians couldn't afford them? p-)

Everyone complained about lack of reforms especially Sunnis. I wonder how they feel now. In any case it is best if everyone puts the effort into trying to negotiate peace and gradual transition to a post Assad period instead of all the killing

So the American president also wears expensive shoes that most Americans can't afford. And don't tell me everyone in America is living the American dream :)

I realise the example is a bit out there; but basically - just about every world leader (with the exception of some communistic ones in Latin/South America), live lifestyles and enjoy luxuries that the overwhelming majority of their populations couldn't even dream about. Maybe in Middle Eastern despotisms they have more money & palaces personally; but then again in the West you get a lot of former leaders who end up landing 6 figure salary jobs in some political institute or oil company after their term is over.

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 05:49 PM
He ruled a police state whose oppression led to this uprising.

Can you be more specific?
What exactly is the big difference between Assad and someone like let's say - Mubarak? (he was already mentioned on this thread so lets use him)
They both ruled dictatorships, and they both used the military to keep order. I'm sure Mubarak relied extensively on his security & intelligence services too.

Camera
02-16-2013, 05:55 PM
**** that. What about Saudi Arabia? Why don't we have an uprising there? It's an islamofascist state where most 911 hijackers came from but no got forbid smth happens to them.

There's no uprising there because they are rich. In the start of the Arab Spring, KSA distributed $130 Billions to the population.


Or how about oppressed minorities of Bahrain?

There's no uprising there because it was oppressed quickly and efficiently.


Please Camera stop it with moralizing this thing. You starting to sound like a broken politburo propaganda record p-)

I'm not in the propaganda business. The one who does is the who tries to convince himself that Assad's regime was good for the Syrians and they revolted for the fan of it.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 05:57 PM
Can you be more specific?
What exactly is the big difference between Assad and someone like let's say - Mubarak? (he was already mentioned on this thread so lets use him)
They both ruled dictatorships, and they both used the military to keep order. I'm sure Mubarak relied extensively on his security & intelligence services too.

How about Egypt now? I dont hear much criticism from west to Morsi and his handling of opposition. It is very weak. Just condemnations and concerns followed up by tanks and F16s. They must really ****ing love him this hardcore MB islamist **** ;) one of ours - a friend of ours - "our SOB" - a made guy :) Zo no can touch

bionic
02-16-2013, 05:58 PM
Can you be more specific?
What exactly is the big difference between Assad and someone like let's say - Mubarak? (he was already mentioned on this thread so lets use him)
They both ruled dictatorships, and they both used the military to keep order. I'm sure Mubarak relied extensively on his security & intelligence services too.
Maybe you ask the Syrians why they finally had enough of him?

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:01 PM
Maybe you ask the Syrians why they finally had enough of him?

I bet they put that on scale with cirrent and about to unravel suffering and famine and realize that the bad peace they had was better before islamists where routed to help destroy their country and infrastructure in a war. Even if FSA wins the damage islamists do will make Syria hell

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 06:03 PM
Maybe you ask the Syrians why they finally had enough of him?

Maybe you could tell me why he was such an OMGEvulMassMurderer and deserves 10x the scorn that Mubarak does?

Camera
02-16-2013, 06:04 PM
Can you be more specific?
What exactly is the big difference between Assad and someone like let's say - Mubarak? (he was already mentioned on this thread so lets use him)
They both ruled dictatorships, and they both used the military to keep order. I'm sure Mubarak relied extensively on his security & intelligence services too.

I know many French who were in Egypt and in Syria for various reasons. And according to their's description, there was no comparison between the level of oppression of the Syrian regime to the one of Mubarak on political opposition, public expression, fear of the Mukhabarat.
Anyway, your theoretical question is senseless. It's like asking why Hungary revolted in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968, but not Bulgaria, even though the Communist oppression was similar. The answer is linked to local factors.

bionic
02-16-2013, 06:04 PM
I bet they put that on scale with cirrent and about to unravel suffering and famine and realize that the bad peace they had was better before islamists where routed to help destroy their country and infrastructure in a war. Even if FSA wins the damage islamists do will make Syria hell

If russia wouldn´t have backed the regime this war could have been over before the islamists played a bigger role.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:07 PM
If russia wouldn´t have backed the regime this war could have been over before the islamists played a bigger role.

Abandon 30,000 Russian citizens and billions of dollars in interests to islamofascist scum thats doing all the winning and learning art of conventional warfare? Really? Would Israel be prepared to do smth like that since you are such a fervent supporter? Not to mention it is just bad PR especially if you are planning a new uniting Eurasian geopolitical entity from a position of strength

bionic
02-16-2013, 06:08 PM
Maybe you could tell me why he was such an OMGEvulMassMurderer and deserves 10x the scorn that Mubarak does?

Don´t know why he decided to crackdown on his own people and isn´t my business to tell the Syrians what to do with him for the order to shot his own people and army.

Surenas
02-16-2013, 06:09 PM
If russia wouldn´t have backed the regime this war could have been over before the islamists played a bigger role.

Just like the US backed anti-Mobarak protestors in the beginning of Egypt's uprising, while still in the end the Muslim Brotherhood took power? Or Tunisia? Give me break. These protests in North-Africa and the Middle-East were doomed to fail from the beginning.

Camera
02-16-2013, 06:10 PM
Abandon 30,000 Russian citizens and billions of dollars in interests to islamofascist scum thats doing all the winning and learning art of conventional warfare? Really? Would Israel be prepared to do smth like that since you are such a fervent supporter? Not to mention it is just bad PR especially if you are planning a new uniting Eurasian geopolitical entity

I fail to understand the bold part.

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 06:11 PM
I know many French who were in Egypt and in Syria for various reasons. And according to their's description, there was no comparison between the level of oppression of the Syrian regime to the one of Mubarak on political opposition, public expression, fear of the Mukhabarat.
Anyway, the theoretical question is senseless because the answer is linked to local factors. It's like asking why Hungary revolted in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968, but not Bulgaria, even though the Communist oppression was similar.

Because most Bulgarians were either OK with the communist regime or just ambivalent about politics (it had a lot of genuine popularity after replacing the pro-Nazi puppet monarchy in 1945)
And Czechoslovakia didn't revolt against their own communists because they were reasonably popular there too; in fact they revolted only when the Soviets sent in some divisions to replace the local communists.
Hungary on the other hand was an Axis nation during WW2, defeated, and the communists were always deeply unpopular there right from the start as they had been imposed by force of arms by a victorious army; and their policies over the next decade failed to gain the ideology more sympathy from the local population.

Well just so you know, anyway.

And I don't see what local factors have to do with anything in this case; I'm not asking why there's an armed insurrection in Syria but not Egypt. Instead I'm asking why Bashar Assad is some murderous, brutal dictator and what has he done that makes him put along with the likes of Saddam Hussein; or worse than the Gulf Arab autocrats, rather than on Mubarak's level which is where he actually is in reality IMO.

So oppression of the political opposition, freedom of expression, efficiency/fear of the security services. That's that then is it?

IR5
02-16-2013, 06:12 PM
He ruled a police state whose oppression led to this uprising.

So did Mubarak, who you think is just the bestest thing ever.

bionic
02-16-2013, 06:13 PM
Abandon 30,000 Russian citizens and billions of dollars in interests to islamofascist scum thats doing all the winning and learning art of conventional warfare? Really? Would Israel be prepared to do smth like that since you are such a fervent supporter? Not to mention it is just bad PR especially if you are planning a new uniting Eurasian geopolitical entity
2years should be enough to evacuate 30.000 russian citizens also this wasn´t something important for russia in the first place. For the rest of your post sorry i don´t understand what you are trying to say.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:16 PM
2years should be enough to evacuate 30.000 russian citizens also this wasn´t something important for russia in the first place. For the rest of your post sorry i don´t understand what you are trying to say.

What if some ppl want to stay you numbwit. Would you want to be uprooted from where you live now? Or all is swell of it doesnt touch your nerve? Ppl may liked it there snd have nothing in Russia. What do they evacuate back to? Let us evacuate all settlements ! What kind of emotion does smth like that evoke?

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 06:18 PM
If russia wouldn´t have backed the regime this war could have been over before the islamists played a bigger role.

You should blame your own politicians for starting all this ****.
It's amazing how much some ignorant people in America and Europe try to pin all the blame on Russia; rather than on their own governments which have been aiding these Jihadist scum from the very beginning.
Russia's policies here have been aimed at finishing the conflict as soon as possible via negotiations and cease-fire between the warring sides. Every initiative it has made has been a constructive one.
Every initiative the US and EU made has been a destructive one; aimed at either strengthening the position of the rebels, encouraging them to further action and no negotiation or compromise, or making unrealistic political demands of the Syrian government that have no chance of being fulfilled and thus no chance of stopping hostilities.

Camera
02-16-2013, 06:22 PM
(…)

And I don't see what local factors have to do with anything in this case; I'm not asking why there's an armed insurrection in Syria but not Egypt.
Instead I'm asking why Bashar Assad is some murderous, brutal dictator and what has he done that makes him put along with the likes of Saddam Hussein; or worse than the Gulf Arab autocrats, rather than on Mubarak's level which is where he actually is in reality IMO.

So oppression of the political opposition, freedom of expression, efficiency/fear of the security services. That's that then is it?

Saddam, Assad father (Hama), his son (at the present uprising), all oppressed their population with massive massacres. Their regime was much more brutal than the dictatorship in Egypt under Mubarak (or Saddat).

Hisroyalhighness
02-16-2013, 06:22 PM
Sounds like Russia and Ukraine hundred years ago!
What the hell does that have anything to do with the topic at hand?

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 06:23 PM
2years should be enough to evacuate 30.000 russian citizens also this wasn´t something important for russia in the first place. For the rest of your post sorry i don´t understand what you are trying to say.

Why should Russia have to evacuate anybody, or do anything? What is this audacity? Was it Russia that started this war, or fanned the flame of tensions and hostilities? What does Russia owe to the West or Turkey or the Arab states; or their political interests - that it should sacrifice its own interests in Syria, or abandon its own citizens there?

Surenas
02-16-2013, 06:23 PM
Sounds like Russia and Ukraine hundred years ago!

Whats up with all these trolls lately?

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:23 PM
Sounds like Russia and Ukraine hundred years ago!

Lol why dont you bring up native americans too. Crimes of British and French colonial powers and etc etc . Btw sounds also similar to plight of Jews in WW2. Dont remember West rushing to their rescue

Camera
02-16-2013, 06:24 PM
So did Mubarak, who you think is just the bestest thing ever.

Mubarak's regime was a corrupted dictatorship, but you never had in Egypt massive massacres like the ones that were orchestrated by Saddam in Iraq or the Assad clan in Syria.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:24 PM
Why should Russia have to evacuate anybody, or do anything? What is this audacity? Was it Russia that started this war, or fanned the flame of tensions and hostilities? What does Russia owe to the West or Turkey or the Arab states; or their political interests - that it should sacrifice its own interests in Syria, or abandon its own citizens there?

Amen to that

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:25 PM
Mubarak's regime was a corrupted dictatorship, but you never had in Egypt massive massacres like the ones that were orchestrated by Saddam in Iraq or the Assad clan in Syria.

Who gave Iraqis Sarin gas? I mean common let is not get silly here. Let us be real about who supported Hussein for war with Iran

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 06:27 PM
Saddam, Assad father (Hama), his son (at the present uprising), all oppressed their population with massive massacres. Their regime was much more brutal than the dictatorship in Egypt under Mubarak (or Saddat).

I'm not talking about his father; I'm talking about Bashar Assad.
And I said - excluding the current conflict. Because what's currently going on, and who's massacring who - is hard to determine, and since everything has devolved into a bloody civil war - the same yard sticks don't apply; long-running civil wars produce massacres on a weekly basis no matter what sort of democratic ideals or whatever their political leaders embrace; that's just the nature of such conflicts.

I'm pushing this question because someone brought up the observation that he doesn't see any outstanding cruelty in Bashar Assad. I happen to agree with it; from what I can see, and excepting the current conflict - Bashar Assad has for his time in power - done nothing more particularly oppressive or cruel than Mubarak did.

Mubarak's regime was a corrupted dictatorship, but you never had in Egypt massive massacres like the ones that were orchestrated by Saddam in Iraq or the Assad clan in Syria.

What are these massacres, orchestrated by Bashar Assad before the civil war?

Surenas
02-16-2013, 06:28 PM
Who gave Iraqis Sarin gas? I mean common let is not get silly here. Let us be real about who supported Hussein for war with Iran

French military equipment sold to Saddam, Dutch businessmen who sold various chemical weapons, etc.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:28 PM
You know it is high time Russia stops pus**yfooting and intervenes. If Putin doesnt do it I will be on bolotnaya square protesting his regime this spring. We better kill the jihadists in Syria before they start reaching Russia doorstep. But thats just IMO. Get UN peacekeeping mandate and drop VDV on the international airport. Let the marines disembark in the West and have 58th pull up from Armenia . **** the islamofascist scum up big time

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:28 PM
French military equipment sold to Saddam, Dutch businessmen who sold various chemical weapons, etc.

Exactomundo

Hisroyalhighness
02-16-2013, 06:30 PM
You know what i think it is time Russia stops pus**yfooting and intervines. If Putin doesnt do it I will be on bolotnaya square protesting his regime this spring. We better kill the jihadists in Dyria before they start reacjing our doorstep. Bit thats just IMO

And risk another Afghanistan?

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 06:32 PM
You know it is high time Russia stops pus**yfooting and intervines. If Putin doesnt do it I will be on bolotnaya square protesting his regime this spring. We better kill the jihadists in Syria before they start reaching Russia doorstep. But thats just IMO. Get UN peacekeeping mandate and drop VDV on the international airport. Let the marines disembarck in the East and have 58th pull up from Armenia . **** the islamofascist scum up big time

lol best comment of this thread :)
I'd overthrow Putin just for this mistake :D

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:33 PM
The business argument is not justified. There's a risk management when you make investments, Russia knew in which country she invests and what the risks were.
As for the Russian population, your analogy to Israel does not have any historical precedent. When Jews are at risk, Israel evacuates them.

Yeah well Saaka wasnt exactly a saint and Israel invested in Georgia. Wonder how that worked out

kalerab
02-16-2013, 06:33 PM
Russia's policies here have been aimed at finishing the conflict as soon as possible via negotiations and cease-fire between the warring sides. Every initiative it has made has been a constructive one.
Every initiative the US and EU made has been a destructive one; aimed at either strengthening the position of the rebels, encouraging them to further action and no negotiation or compromise, or making unrealistic political demands of the Syrian government that have no chance of being fulfilled and thus no chance of stopping hostilities.

Than Lavrov is naive as hell and I don´t buy that for a moment. Replacement of Assad has been vital to any discussion with opposition since early 2011, even if opposition political representatives would agree to deal that would give them literally everything but presidential seat it would never be accepted by population on the ground, but would rather kill any support they had among them. They knew it, west knew it, Assad knew it and Russia knew it.

Arab League proposal about transitional government where Assad steps down and his deputy takes over like in Yemen while transitional government will be formed from 50% Baath, 50% oppo was so far the closest thing I saw to constructive deal that had chance of succeeding. Russia never backed it.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:34 PM
And risk another Afghanistan?

Stop it with fear. We need to suck it up and **** em up. It is a just cause in Russian mind. Afghanistan was not. We have been through Chechnya and NC we know the stakes

kalerab
02-16-2013, 06:35 PM
Stop it with fear. We need to suck it up and **** em up. It is a just caise in Russian mind

What could possibly go wrong?

Camera
02-16-2013, 06:35 PM
Who gave Iraqis Sarin gas? I mean common let is not get silly here. Let us be real about who supported Hussein for war with Iran

The Iraq-Iran war is another topic. I was pointing to the popular uprisings, like the ones that occurred after Gulf War 1.

Camera
02-16-2013, 06:36 PM
French military equipment sold to Saddam, Dutch businessmen who sold various chemical weapons, etc.


Exactomundo

Most of Saddam's military equipment was Russian.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:37 PM
Most of Saddam's military equipment was Russian.
Who ever denied that . He juiced both sides

Hisroyalhighness
02-16-2013, 06:37 PM
Stop it with fear. We need to suck it up and **** em up. It is a just cause in Russian mind. Afghanistan was not. We have been through Chechnya and NC we know the stakes
And have an entire generation come back with Syria syndrome? I support crushing Radical Islam Ideologies as much as the next guy, but sending forces to Syria to aid Assad's regime? It's madness.

Hey guys, we filled up the active stream! WOOT!

Camera
02-16-2013, 06:39 PM
Yeah well Saaka wasnt exactly a saint and Israel invested in Georgia. Wonder how that worked out

So what? Did it made a drama for having lost investments?

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:41 PM
And have an entire generation come back with Syria syndrome? I support crushing Radical Islam Ideologies as much as the next guy, but sending forces to Syria to aid Assad's regime? It's madness.

Hey guys, we filled up the active stream! WOOT!

How are we going to test the new reform? SMD 58th and 49th are ripe for war. 90% modernized. Project power and stop being pus**ies. Or else Putin goes. His ranking is falling among hard core. He may loose powerhold

Surenas
02-16-2013, 06:41 PM
And have an entire generation come back with Syria syndrome? I support crushing Radical Islam Ideologies as much as the next guy, but sending forces to Syria to aid Assad's regime? It's madness.

These days drones are much more effective...

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 06:42 PM
Than Lavrov is naive as hell and I don´t buy that for a moment. Replacement of Assad has been vital to any discussion with opposition since early 2011, even if opposition political representatives would agree to deal that would give them literally everything but presidential seat it would never be accepted by population on the ground, but would rather kill any support they had among them. They knew it, west knew it, Assad knew it and Russia knew it.

What are you talking about kalerab? It will be accepted by the opposition and a ceasefire will be instated, that's all that matters. The rest is bull****.
You know as well as I do that the vast majority of people want an end to the conflict already, and of the ones that still have the stomach for it; just as many are willing to die for Assad as are willing to die trying to depose him.
So don't start with the claptrap of 'Syrian opposition can't accept a settlement plan because the righteous fury of +50% of the Syrian population will go unanswered and they will never accept it'. That's bollocks. Everyone is exhausted as hell; even the most die-hard combatants wouldn't know what's left of Syria for them to fight for by now, and that it would only get worse if they don't come to a deal soon.

And Lavrov knows that perfectly well; not that this is all that relevant though - Russia's diplomats have been pushing for negotiations between the 2 sides since the very start of the hostilities.


Arab League proposal about transitional government where Assad steps down and his deputy takes over like in Yemen while transitional government will be formed from 50% Baath, 50% oppo was so far the closest thing I saw to constructive deal that had chance of succeeding. Russia never backed it.
That was actually a decent proposal and I think Russia did back it; or someone from the Syrian government themselves offered something like that - but it was rejected by the opposition. One of those 2.
This is the first I've heard of Russia not backing that one.

Hisroyalhighness
02-16-2013, 06:42 PM
These days drones are much more effective...
And how many does Russia have?

Exactly.

bionic
02-16-2013, 06:42 PM
You should blame your own politicians for starting all this ****.
It's amazing how much some ignorant people in America and Europe try to pin all the blame on Russia; rather than on their own governments which have been aiding these Jihadist scum from the very beginning.
Russia's policies here have been aimed at finishing the conflict as soon as possible via negotiations and cease-fire between the warring sides. Every initiative it has made has been a constructive one.
Every initiative the US and EU made has been a destructive one; aimed at either strengthening the position of the rebels, encouraging them to further action and no negotiation or compromise, or making unrealistic political demands of the Syrian government that have no chance of being fulfilled and thus no chance of stopping hostilities.

roflBy printing and sending money and arms...... very very constructive Russia has been. I guess this war also was started by the jews and the evil west who send their killer commandos to shot at syrian people. Oh by the way Capt.Morg... i mean AgentKoba brought up the russian citizens either they are Syrians or Russians i hope at least you guys know. Oh and yes Syria already became the next Afghanistan for Russia without Russia having any boots on the ground because they let Assad make this a Syrian, Russian, Iran war against his own people and the west.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:44 PM
roflBy printing and sending money and arms...... very very constructive Russia has been. I guess this war also was started by the jews and the evil west who send their killer commandos to shot at syrian people. Oh by the way Capt.Morg... i mean AgentKoba brought up the russian citizens either they are Syrians or Russians i hope at least you guys know. Oh and yes Syria already became the next Afghanistan for Russia without Russia having any boots on the ground because they let Assad make this a Syrian, Russian, Iran war against his own people and the west.

Jews had nothing to do with starting this mess. I thought we edtablished that early on. If it is Afghanistan might as well commit to it. Thats how I see it

Establish peace. Remove Assad. Create coalition transitional govt. Start rebuilding effort.

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 06:46 PM
So what? Did it made a drama for having lost investments?

Russia never deposed Saaka and allowed that clown to keep control of his own country, nevermind not jailing him for warcrimes; for another 4 years until he was voted out in disgrace by his own people.
Israeli, American & European investments in Georgia were never under threat, and the collateral damage over those 3 days wasn't substantial; within a couple of weeks it was back to business as usual.

kalerab
02-16-2013, 06:47 PM
How are we going to test the new reform? SMD 58th and 49th are ripe for war. 90% modernized. Project power and stop being pus**ies. Or else Putin goes. His ranking is falling among hard core. He may loose powerhold

This reminds me so much of how some though Iraq war will be over in few weeks after invasion and afterwards everything will be cheery and unicorns will be jumping above the dunes of Iraqi desert. Russia invades and power of durka-durkas currently in Syria will look insignificant compared to what will come.

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 06:47 PM
roflBy printing and sending money and arms...... very very constructive Russia has been. I guess this war also was started by the jews and the evil west who send their killer commandos to shot at syrian people. Oh by the way Capt.Morg... i mean AgentKoba brought up the russian citizens either they are Syrians or Russians i hope at least you guys know. Oh and yes Syria already became the next Afghanistan for Russia without Russia having any boots on the ground because they let Assad make this a Syrian, Russian, Iran war against his own people and the west.

Those steps were taken in response to Western/Turkish/Arab intervention - it was a response and a valid one; not an instigation - and was deemed neccessery even though it breaks Russia's neutrality. Maybe it was the wrong choice; but whatever. The Russian diplomatic proposals are still perfectly reasonable though.


This reminds me so much of how some though Iraq war will be over in few weeks after invasion and afterwards everything will be cheery and unicorns will be jumping above the dunes of Iraqi desert. Russia invades and power of durka-durkas currently in Syria will look insignificant compared to what will come.

What will come?
The same rebels, mercs & Jihadists who are fighting against Assad will now be fighting against the Russian side simulatenously.
The very same Syrian army and militias that are fighting on Assad's side, will continue to fight on Assad's side.

It won't make the population of the whole country rise up in fury at the foreign interventionists; not would it cause a wave of foreign fighters to come into the country either.
Because both of those resources have already been expended to their max; everyone in Syria has already chosen sides and those who wanted to fight, are fighting - while the Arabs are already doing everything in their power to overthrow Assad and have emptied all their prisons already.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:48 PM
This reminds me so much of how some though Iraq war will be over in few weeks after invasion and afterwards everything will be cheery and unicorns will be jumping above the dunes of Iraqi desert. Russia invades and power of durka-durkas currently in Syria will look insignificant compared to what will come.

Well what can you do we like repeating American mistakes p-)

Steak-Sauce
02-16-2013, 06:48 PM
This reminds me so much of how some though Iraq war will be over in few weeks after invasion and afterwards everything will be cheery and unicorns will be jumping above the dunes of Iraqi desert. Russia invades and power of durka-durkas currently in Syria will look insignificant compared to what will come.

It's actually a pretty good idea.

For us, that is.

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 06:49 PM
Russia never deposed Saaka and allowed that clown to keep control of his own country, nevermind not jailing him for warcrimes; for another 4 years until he was voted out in disgrace by his own people.
Israeli, American & European investments in Georgia were never under threat, and the collateral damage over those 3 days wasn't substantial; within a couple of weeks it was back to business as usual.

All very civil. Even 080808 was a rather quick and painless procedure. I am hoping for same here

Camera
02-16-2013, 06:49 PM
Russia never deposed Saaka and allowed that clown to keep control of his own country, nevermind not jailing him for warcrimes; for another 4 years until he was voted out in disgrace by his own people.
Israeli, American & European investments in Georgia were never under threat, and the collateral damage over those 3 days wasn't substantial; within a couple of weeks it was back to business as usual.

Whatever. The business issue is just not a relevant argument. It's the kind of arguments that prevailed at colonial times.

kalerab
02-16-2013, 06:59 PM
What are you talking about kalerab? It will be accepted by the opposition and a ceasefire will be instated, that's all that matters. The rest is bull****.
You know as well as I do that the vast majority of people want an end to the conflict already, and of the ones that still have the stomach for it; just as many are willing to die for Assad as are willing to die trying to depose him.
So don't start with the claptrap of 'Syrian opposition can't accept a settlement plan because the righteous fury of +50% of the Syrian population will go unanswered and they will never accept it'. That's bollocks. Everyone is exhausted as hell; even the most die-hard combatants wouldn't know what's left of Syria for them to fight for by now, and that it would only get worse if they don't come to a deal soon.

And Lavrov knows that perfectly well; not that this is all that relevant though - Russia's diplomats have been pushing for negotiations between the 2 sides since the very start of the hostilities.

You think that SNC has any power over armed opposition groups in Syria? They accept something like that and armed groups will tell them to **** off while political opposition credibility would be shattered. There would be no cease-fire, it has been already tried and it didn´t work.
And they are exhausted but in neighbouring Lebanon it took them 15 years to be exhausted enough to accept their opponents as partners rather than practice targets. They got exhausted enough after 15 years and 2 invasions. And that in country that was before civil war described as example of sectarian cooperation.
I wouldn´t underestimate this conflict. It will drag for a long time and there are still a lot of scores to settle.

As for the peace plan it was rejected by Assad and Russian position was that both sides have to agree to it.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/0123/Syria-rejects-Arab-League-s-flagrant-interference

kalerab
02-16-2013, 07:05 PM
What will come?
The same rebels, mercs & Jihadists who are fighting against Assad will now be fighting against the Russian side simulatenously.
The very same Syrian army and militias that are fighting on Assad's side, will continue to fight on Assad's side.

It won't make the population of the whole country rise up in fury at the foreign interventionists; not would it cause a wave of foreign fighters to come into the country either.
Because both of those resources have already been expended to their max; everyone in Syria has already chosen sides and those who wanted to fight, are fighting - while the Arabs are already doing everything in their power to overthrow Assad and have emptied all their prisons already.

The influx of foreign fighters would be enormous. AQ is operating through franchise but majority of Nusra fighters are Syrians. Russia invades and half of Anbar will move through desert to Syria. All Gulfi jihadists will move there as well. I mean there were lot of them in Iraq but another Astan of 80s? That would be bad. Sheiks everywhere would held contest on who makes more fatwas urging sunnis to go there.

Camera
02-16-2013, 07:10 PM
It's actually a pretty good idea.

For us, that is.

It will make a fascinating thread. p-)

Seriously, I hope Putin is not stupid to send young Russian to die for Assad.

Arbody
02-16-2013, 07:13 PM
You know it is high time Russia stops pus**yfooting and intervines. If Putin doesnt do it I will be on bolotnaya square protesting his regime this spring. We better kill the jihadists in Syria before they start reaching Russia doorstep. But thats just IMO. Get UN peacekeeping mandate and drop VDV on the international airport. Let the marines disembarck in the East and have 58th pull up from Armenia . **** the islamofascist scum up big time
x2 .

Siempre_Leal
02-16-2013, 07:13 PM
roflBy printing and sending money and arms...... very very constructive Russia has been. I guess this war also was started by the jews and the evil west who send their killer commandos to shot at syrian people. Oh by the way Capt.Morg... i mean AgentKoba brought up the russian citizens either they are Syrians or Russians i hope at least you guys know. Oh and yes Syria already became the next Afghanistan for Russia without Russia having any boots on the ground because they let Assad make this a Syrian, Russian, Iran war against his own people and the west.

Why did you have to out the "jew card" in this thread???

AgentKoba37
02-16-2013, 07:22 PM
It will make a fascinating thread. p-)

Seriously, I hope Putin is not stupid to send young Russian to die for Assad.

they just signed law - Russian conscripts dont take part in hostilities. Only contracts troops.

bionic
02-16-2013, 07:22 PM
Those steps were taken in response to Western/Turkish/Arab intervention - it was a response and a valid one; not an instigation - and was deemed neccessery even though it breaks Russia's neutrality. Maybe it was the wrong choice; but whatever. The Russian diplomatic proposals are still perfectly reasonable though.
If i just have a look at the videos on youtube it was the wrong choice, in every video where Assad is named Russia and Iran is named as enemy, too. In my point of view the diplomatic stance on the Syrian case was one of the worst Russia has taken in a long time. But hey its Russia that has this islamophobia and who is fueling them by actively supporting a crackdown on Arab people in the M-E. For all the wrong doing Russia has pointed at the US all the time, they are now doing a even bigger mistake and risking their infuence in the M-E for a guy like Assad. While in the beginning it looked like Russia is the master of Assad it now looks like Assad made Russia his match ball. If i would be Putin i would be pissed off by a Syrian Army writing my name on rockets fired on Syrian people or Assad openly saying Russia still delivers weapons while Lavrov was denying this just before.


Why did you have to out the "jew card" in this thread???
Because i am an evil german maybe and i for sure was the first one who accused the jews in this thread?!:roll:

Laker1
02-16-2013, 07:29 PM
If i just have a look at the videos on youtube it was the wrong choice, in every video where Assad is named Russia and Iran is named as enemy, too. In my point of view the diplomatic stance on the Syrian case was one of the worst Russia has taken in a long time. But hey its Russia that has this islamophobia and who is fueling them by actively supporting a crackdown on Arab people in the M-E. For all the wrong doing Russia has pointed at the US all the time, they are now doing a even bigger mistake and risking their infuence in the M-E for a guy like Assad. While in the beginning it looked like Russia is the master of Assad it now looks like Assad made Russia his match ball. If i would be Putin i would be pissed off by a Syrian Army writing my name on rockets fired on Syrian people or Assad openly saying Russia still delivers weapons while Lavrov was denying this just before.




Russia takes a big gamble here. The next regime in Syria will see it badly..

IR5
02-16-2013, 07:40 PM
Than Lavrov is naive as hell and I don´t buy that for a moment. Replacement of Assad has been vital to any discussion with opposition since early 2011, even if opposition political representatives would agree to deal that would give them literally everything but presidential seat it would never be accepted by population on the ground, but would rather kill any support they had among them. They knew it, west knew it, Assad knew it and Russia knew it.

Arab League proposal about transitional government where Assad steps down and his deputy takes over like in Yemen while transitional government will be formed from 50% Baath, 50% oppo was so far the closest thing I saw to constructive deal that had chance of succeeding. Russia never backed it.

Arab League deal had no chance of working either. Rebels weren't going to accept that 50% of the new government would be from a regime that's been killing them for the past two years.

Russia is probably just stalling for time because it aids Assad in his efforts to regain control and crush the rebellion. Any talk from them about Assad stepping down after some hypothetical national dialogue/agreement is just BS they're feeding everyone else so that they can back off of Bashar while he tries to regain control.

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 07:41 PM
If i just have a look at the videos on youtube it was the wrong choice, in every video where Assad is named Russia and Iran is named as enemy, too. In my point of view the diplomatic stance on the Syrian case was one of the worst Russia has taken in a long time. But hey its Russia that has this islamophobia and who is fueling them by actively supporting a crackdown on Arab people in the M-E. For all the wrong doing Russia has pointed at the US all the time, they are now doing a even bigger mistake and risking their infuence in the M-E for a guy like Assad. While in the beginning it looked like Russia is the master of Assad it now looks like Assad made Russia his match ball. If i would be Putin i would be pissed off by a Syrian Army writing my name on rockets fired on Syrian people or Assad openly saying Russia still delivers weapons while Lavrov was denying this just before.

So what? That's just Gulf Arab propaganda, about all Arabs being against Russia because of its policies on Syria. It's BS. All of it. In fact that Gulf dictatorships and its corrupt rulers aren't popular with regular Arabs, and for that matter neither is America or Europe. Russia gets respect because at least its willing to take a stand, and has an alternative policy to Israel/EU/US which are all viewed as one and the same and which are also viewed in the Middle East somewhat as crusaders because of all the wars involving them.

Flamming_Python
02-16-2013, 07:46 PM
You think that SNC has any power over armed opposition groups in Syria? They accept something like that and armed groups will tell them to **** off while political opposition credibility would be shattered. There would be no cease-fire, it has been already tried and it didn´t work.
And they are exhausted but in neighbouring Lebanon it took them 15 years to be exhausted enough to accept their opponents as partners rather than practice targets. They got exhausted enough after 15 years and 2 invasions. And that in country that was before civil war described as example of sectarian cooperation.
I wouldn´t underestimate this conflict. It will drag for a long time and there are still a lot of scores to settle.

Well now I see what you're saying, you do raise a point - but ultimately I think the situation will solve itself. The SNC is the only unification the rebels have; a loose one but still a unification. If it says to stop fighting; then sure some groups will want to disobey - but which alternative body would they have to co-ordinate this, or even to communicate with each other through?
Ultimately I think it's all a question of money and local power for these 'brigades' anyway. Like in Libya.
Right now the Syrian government has no choice but to negotiate with them, and hope that the political opposition leaders could eventually convince these armed groups to disband peacefully; otherwise it will come down to another showdown with the Syrian army again.


As for the peace plan it was rejected by Assad and Russian position was that both sides have to agree to it.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/0123/Syria-rejects-Arab-League-s-flagrant-interference

That's not rejection by Russia, that's rejection by Assad. And yes, in negotiations - both sides have to agree. Otherwise there can be no deal. Same for business, politics, war, etc... Lavrov was smart enough to realise this elementary logic; the key is to get an acceptable position for both sides as soon as possible. It seemed reasonable to me, but whatever.
But its funny it was rejected, I do seem to recall some Syrian government proposal about the same sort of thing; Assad stepping down and his deputy taking over. I think Assad himself may have mentioned something like that at one stage or the other. Or perhaps it was a Russian idea.

Camera
02-16-2013, 07:46 PM
So what? That's just Gulf Arab propaganda, about all Arabs being against Russia because of its policies on Syria. It's BS. All of it. In fact that Gulf dictatorships and its corrupt rulers aren't popular with regular Arabs, and for that matter neither is America or Europe. Russia gets respect because at least its willing to take a stand, and has an alternative policy to Israel/EU/US which are all viewed as one and the same and which are also viewed in the Middle East as crusaders because of all the wars involving them.

IMO, Russia is unpopular among the Arabs, probably more unpopular than the West.