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Laker1
02-08-2013, 08:47 PM
The guy has butchered 75,000+ Syrians.. sure he will.

I also think like that..it's interesting to know what a supporter of Assad thinks.

themacedonian
02-08-2013, 09:29 PM
Nobody is entering any place, don't lose your sleep about it......

well I did not say it I just pointed out the link :) ......sleeping fine thanks.

Flamming_Python
02-09-2013, 03:21 AM
The guy has butchered 75,000+ Syrians.. sure he will.


I also think like that..it's interesting to know what a supporter of Assad thinks.

Crush6655, why are you talking to yourself? :)

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 03:24 AM
Crush6655, why are you talking to yourself? :)

Israeli IW ops man do not interfere p-)

gresh
02-09-2013, 03:36 AM
Syrian rebels preparing for advance on capital

Syrian rebels brought their fight within a mile of the heart of Damascus, seizing army checkpoints and cutting a key highway with a row of burning tires as they pressed their campaign for the heavily guarded capital, considered the likely endgame in the nearly 2-year-old civil war.


The clashes raised fears that Damascus, a major cultural centre and one of the world's oldest continuously inhabited cities, could fall victim to a protracted battle that would bring the destruction seen in other major cities and trigger a mass refugee exodus into neighbouring countries.


"Any attempt by the rebels to advance into central Damascus would mean the beginning of a very long fight," said Syrian activist Rami Jarrah. "I imagine Aleppo would be a small example of what is likely to happen in Damascus."



A spokesman for one of the opposition groups fighting in the area said the rebels sought to open a path for a future assault on the city.

"This is not the battle for Damascus. This battle is to prepare for the entry into Damascus," he said via Skype, giving only his nickname, Abu al-Fida, for fear of reprisals.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/8282782/Syrian-rebels-preparing-for-advance-on-capital

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 03:45 AM
Israeli officials are skeptical about whether Assad will be able to maintain his grip on power past this year.

Yet they also realize that the civil war may continue consuming the country beyond his ouster. Although the turmoil diminishes the traditional risk of war with the Syrian army, it highlights the risk of confrontation with hostile non-state actors.

Contrary to conventional wisdom in the region, Israel would not mourn Assad’s departure. He is a linchpin of the radical Iran-Hezbollah axis and a staunch rival of Israel.

His fall would therefore deal a major blow to Tehran, significantly weaken Hezbollah, and dismantle the trilateral axis – the forces that may dominate Syria in the future are unlikely to seek an alliance with actors that helped Assad butcher his people.

At the same time, Israel is concerned about who might fill the post-Assad void. It is particularly troubled by the increasing weight of Islamists in the opposition, the growing number of foreign jihadists (who have become the most potent fighting force on the ground), and the West’s continued passivity about supporting non- Islamist opposition forces. Ultimately, Israel could find itself confronted by hostile Islamists in its two most important Arab neighbors, Egypt and Syria – a reality that could have a dangerous regional ripple effect.


Israel is closely following the conflict’s impact on Syria’s other neighbors.

First, it is deeply concerned that the turmoil may breed serious instability in Jordan, a country of strategic importance to Israel and the West. In late December, an Arab newspaper reported that King Abdullah and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu had met secretly in Amman to discuss the Syria situation, and Israeli government sources unofficially confirmed the report.

Regarding Lebanon, Israel is pleased at the pressure the crisis has put on Hezbollah. Yet it also maintains a watchful eye, looking for signs of the group lashing out in response to this pressure or seeking to obtain strategic weapons from Syria.

The war has led Israel to rethink its strained relations with Turkey as well. The two countries have several converging interests in Syria – this fact, set against a regional background fraught with risks, will likely spur a fresh Israeli attempt at normalization with Ankara.

http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Features/Article.aspx?id=302473

Evolution
02-09-2013, 03:48 AM
The guy has butchered 75,000+ Syrians.. sure he will.

Has he now? So none of those 75,000+ Syrians were SAA soldiers, civilians loyal to Assad murdered by the FSA/Al-Qaeda, FSA fighters or foreign jihadist terrorists? They were all Syrians killed by this one man? Amazing! :roll:

Surenas
02-09-2013, 03:51 AM
His fall would therefore deal a major blow to Tehran, significantly weaken Hezbollah, and dismantle the trilateral axis the forces that may dominate Syria in the future are unlikely to seek an alliance with actors that helped Assad butcher his people.


In other words. We would rather have hostile, probably unorganized, sunni hostile groups near our borders, than a organized semi-Shia tripartite axis of Iran, Hezbollah and Syria. And I agree; the Sunnis would never be a threat to Israel as Assad/Nasrallah has been.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 03:53 AM
In other words. We would rather have hostile, probably unorganized, sunni hostile groups near our borders, than a organized semi-Shia tripartite axis of Iran, Hezbollah and Syria. And I agree; the Sunnis would never be a threat to Israel as Assad/Nasrallah has been.

I cannot say I fully agree with some of the assessment in that link but it is interesting nonetheless.

Camera
02-09-2013, 04:07 AM
I cannot say I fully agree with some of the assessment in that link but it is interesting nonetheless.

The Sunni will be busy with their internal Syrian rivalries. If they ever turn against Israel it will be nothing but harassment the Israelis are used to and know how to deal with.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:10 AM
The Sunni will be busy with their internal Syrian rivalries. If they ever turn against Israel it will be nothing but harassment the Israelis are used to and know how to deal with.

Problem is islamists may gain a state sponsor or two along the way which could complicate things. It may be just exchanging one threat over another. Shilo for milo as Russians say. But it may be that salafist chaos is easier to manage especially if at least some of it is rerouted away. Maybe

Camera
02-09-2013, 04:18 AM
Problem is they may gain a state sponsor or two along the way which could complicate things. It may be just exchanging one threat over another. Shilo for milo as Russians say.

I don't see who this state sponsor could be as it will need to provide huge quantities of weapons to build up a modern army.
With the destruction of the Syrian armored divisions, the IDF could already consider the dismantlement of some of its armored divisions. It could phase out its Magach and early Merkava and consolidate the ground forces in a smaller modern fist.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:21 AM
I don't see who this state sponsor could be as it will need to provide huge quantities of weapons to build up a modern army.
With the destruction of the Syrian armored divisions, the IDF could already consider the dismantlement of some of its armored divisions. It could phase out its Magach and early Merkava and consolidate the ground forces in a smaller modern fist.

True but I would not rush with dismantlement of armored divisions if Assad falls just yet. Not with the kind of weapon stocks that could suddenly become contested in the region. Eliminating these without sparking a regional conflict is going to be tricky IMO should the need arise
.........

Surenas
02-09-2013, 05:08 AM
Did A Senior Hezbollah Commander Escape an Assassination Plot?


According to unconfirmed information, from a source I evaluate as fairly reliable, Wafik Safa, the head of the “Central Liaison and Cooperation Committee” of Hezbollah in Lebanon, was injured at the beginning of the month in an explosion in the Sulm neighborhood in Beirut. It is not clear if it was an assassination plot, but there are reasons to affirm the suspicions.

Safa, born in 1960 in the town of Zibdin in South Lebanon, is the brother-in-law of Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah. For years he was Hezbollah’s “man in the shadows” – his name was “The Ghost.” He is considered to be a member of the most powerful inner-circle within the organization. His specific title within Hezbollah is vague, yet he holds a very powerful and senior position. He is in charge of all of Hezbollah’s counter-espionage activities in Lebanon. His adversaries say he is the “real boss” in Lebanon.

Safa is also the person in charge of all the exchange deals for dead Israeli soldiers and the one Israeli civilian abducted by Hezbollah. Safa personally handed the dead bodies of the two Israeli soldiers killed in Hezbollah’s attack on an Israeli military patrol in July 2006 which sparked a war between Israel and Hezbollah, over to the German mediator.

If the information is accurate that Safa did in fact escape an assassination plot, it is possible that it is connected to an incident that took place a few months ago.

At the end of November 2012 a group of about twenty-five Lebanese Sunni-Jihadist militants entered Syria from Northern Lebanon. The group planned to join the rebels fighting Assad’s troops.

In the area of Talkalch, inside Syrian territory next to the Lebanese-Syrian border, the group was ambushed. Seventeen members of the group were killed, others were imprisoned by the Syrians, and a few escaped. The majority of the fatalities were from the predominately Sunni-Lebanese city of Tripoli. Syria gradually returned the dead bodies to their families by mid-December.

According to uncorroborated information, it was Safa who personally provided General Rafik Shehadeh, the head of Syrian Military Intelligence, with information about the group – its members, movements, intentions, etc. Based upon Safa’s information, Hezbollah militants disguised as Syrian soldiers ambushed the group.

Hezbollah, which is Shiite, has members – reportedly senior officials – that are being held captive by a Sunni Rebel group in in the area of Ala’aza in Syria since May 2012. (You can read more about this event in my article “Nasrallah Gets a Taste of his Own Bitter Medicine.”) Hezbollah wanted to kidnap Sunnis from Tripoli as a card, so that their families back in Tripoli would put pressure on the Sunni Rebels in Syria to release the Hezbollah prisoners in return for their captured brothers and sons.

Among the Shiite prisoners being held captive since May (according to unconfirmed reports) is Wafik Safa’s son, Ali.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/did-a-senior-hezbollah-commander-escape-an-assassination-plot/

themacedonian
02-09-2013, 05:36 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9857846/Syria-how-jihadist-group-Jabhat-al-Nusra-is-taking-over-Syrias-revolution.html

Syria: how jihadist group Jabhat al-Nusra is taking over Syria's revolutionAleppo has been plunged into despair. Riven with war, life in Syria's most populous city has become a dog-eat-dog existence: a battle for survival in a place where the strong devour the weak.

ZapB
02-09-2013, 06:11 AM
In other words. We would rather have hostile, probably unorganized, sunni hostile groups near our borders, than a organized semi-Shia tripartite axis of Iran, Hezbollah and Syria. And I agree; the Sunnis would never be a threat to Israel as Assad/Nasrallah has been.

They seem disorganized now, but when Asad falls, the jihadists will take over (the so called "FSA" is a minor force) and they will get organized. Once Syria becomes a sunni islamic state it can potentially be more dangerous than the tamed Assad regime. Hezzbalah will still get support from Iran (and they are quite autonomous to a certain degree), Hamas has already moved away from Asad and "gone revolution".

I'm still of the opinion that sunni fanatics are a much bigger threat than shia fanatics (especially in a global pov). With the success of the islamic revolution in Syria the power balance will shift even further in favor of sunni terror & islamic militancy.

Flamming_Python
02-09-2013, 06:11 AM
The Sunni will be busy with their internal Syrian rivalries. If they ever turn against Israel it will be nothing but harassment the Israelis are used to and know how to deal with.

You are cheering on the rupture of the Syrian government, and think that things will be better with some failed state north of your borders; like Somalia or Chechnya.
It will be a huge sore in the middle east that will export terrorism and extremist ideology en-masse, with armed gangs engaged in kidnapping, drug-trafficking, piracy on the coast and all sorts of other activities - and it will grow to become a threat for everyone of its neighbours from Turkey to Israel to Jordan.
I'm not even going to talk about who the Syrian civilian population will be better off under, because now at least you've dropped all pretenses that this is something that concerns you. Fair enough.
You are delusional if you think that building some wall or stationing forces on the border will stop the instability and chaos from spreading - you are concerned chiefly about the lives of Israel's citizens, but fail to take into account that their security also depends on the region not falling further into anarchy. Terrorist attacks against Turkey, Europe, US will quickly spark further warfare and thus more threats to Israel. This is not some Hezbollah or Hamas we're talking about here, but the prospect of a +20 million population country becoming another Afghanistan - you cannot really be so arrogant as to believe some wall will help you.

Ya22
02-09-2013, 06:16 AM
It will be a huge sore in the middle east that will export terrorism and extremist ideology en-masse, with armed gangs engaged in kidnapping, drug-trafficking, piracy on the coast and all sorts of other activities - and it will grow to become a threat for everyone of its neighbours from Turkey to Israel to Jordan.
That's the situation right now, you're not informed...

Like I said in my previews posts - you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just talking for the talkings..

JGXL836
02-09-2013, 06:18 AM
In other words. We would rather have hostile, probably unorganized, sunni hostile groups near our borders, than a organized semi-Shia tripartite axis of Iran, Hezbollah and Syria. And I agree; the Sunnis would never be a threat to Israel as Assad/Nasrallah has been.

At least not anytime soon after their victory over Assad/Nasrallah.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 06:26 AM
Crush6655, why are you talking to yourself? :-)

LOL..i'm not YA22(we are online together right now..). Anyway,no one can really know if it's better that Assad will stay or leave. The assumption is that the next regime will not be close to Hezbollah and Iran,but in the other hand,if it will be a radical religious regime,they might attack us directly..the next regime will probably not control all the country and Jihadist groups will do whatever they want. It will be very messy.

Camera
02-09-2013, 06:29 AM
You are cheering on the rupture of the Syrian government, and think that things will be better with some failed state north of your borders; like Somalia or Chechnya.

Never did that.


It will be a huge sore in the middle east that will export terrorism and extremist ideology en-masse, with armed gangs engaged in kidnapping, drug-trafficking, piracy on the coast and all sorts of other activities - and it will grow to become a threat for everyone of its neighbours from Turkey to Israel to Jordan.

The picture you describe fits perfectly the massive terror sponsoring by the Assad gang.


I'm not even going to talk about who the Syrian civilian population will be better off under, because now at least you've dropped all pretenses that this is something that concerns you. Fair enough.

Russia cares about Syrian civilians? What a joke.


You are delusional if you think that building some wall or stationing forces on the border will stop the instability and chaos from spreading - you are concerned chiefly about the lives of Israel's citizens, but fail to take into account that their security also depends on the region not falling further into anarchy. Terrorist attacks against Turkey, Europe, US will quickly spark further warfare and thus more threats to Israel. This is not some Hezbollah or Hamas we're talking about here, but the prospect of a +20 million population country becoming another Afghanistan - you cannot really be so arrogant as to believe some wall will help you.

Your knowledge of the region is based on RT reports. Syria will never turn into Afghanistan.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 06:38 AM
In any case,it will be very messy because it will take time for the next regime to control all the country and Jihadist groups will try to conduct terrorist attacks inside Syria and probably against Israel.

Camera
02-09-2013, 06:42 AM
Syrian president reshuffles economic Cabinet postsAssad reportedly appoints new heads to oil, finance, social affairs and other ministries; key security ministries remain unchanged
By ALBERT AJI (http://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/albert-aji/) and BASSEM MROUE (http://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/bassem-mroue/)

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — Syrian President Bashar Assad reshuffled his Cabinet Saturday, appointing new ministers to handle an economy ravaged by two years of uprising and civil war, Syria’s state media reported Saturday.

State TV said the ministries that were changed are those of oil, finance, social affairs, labor, housing, public works, and agriculture. Key security ministries such as defense and interior remained unchanged.

Saturday’s announcement comes amid major shortages. Power outages are common and Syrians in some areas must stand in hours-long lines for bread and gasoline.

The civil war, which has killed more than 60,000 people, has also heavily damaged infrastructure like oil pipelines, bridges and water and power stations. The airport in Syria’s largest city and commercial hub, Aleppo, is closed due to fighting. The US dollar exchanged Saturday for around 95 Syrian pounds at the black market, about half its value of 47 pounds to the dollar when the crisis began in March 2011.

The presidential decrees issued Saturday said that what used to be the Ministry of Labor and Social Affairs has been split into two posts, apparently to give the new Ministry of Social Affairs responsibility for rising numbers of people who have fled from one part of the country to another to escape the fighting.

Jens Laerke, a spokesman for the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, said Tuesday that 2 million people have been displaced inside Syria while 4 million need urgent help. Those numbers could rise if fighting continues, he said.
He said the humanitarian situation in Syria had reached “catastrophic” proportions, with some 2.5 million people lacking food.

CONTINUED: http://www.timesofisrael.com/syrian-president-reshuffles-economic-cabinet-posts/

Surenas
02-09-2013, 06:44 AM
At least not anytime soon after their victory over Assad/Nasrallah.

In my opinion, never. Their lack of discipline, strategical insight, technology and internal disputes will make sure that they will never pose a significant threat to Israel. They will be more a threat to Lebanon and Iraq. And besides that, I expect they will eventually follow the same path as Egypt is following now under the Muslim Brotherhood.

Flamming_Python
02-09-2013, 06:46 AM
The picture you describe fits perfectly the massive terror sponsoring by the Assad gang.

No it doesn't; what Assad did is sponsor a friendly Islamist group that was in his political interests to sponsor; but that's no different to anything the US, Turkey, or Russia at one point were doing.
I'm talking about the whole country becoming one giant failed state and exporting nothing other than radical ideology, training services for international jihadists, piracy, banditry & drugs.


Russia cares about Syrian civilians? What a joke.

What's this got to do with Russia?

You were talking all high and mighty about the Syrian's right to overthrow their dictator and so on, and I was talking about what would better for the country and people itself.
But now suddenly it's OK even if Syria becomes a failed state, because the most important thing is that you have your vengeance, and what's left there is not a threat to Israel anymore.


Your knowledge of the region is based on RT reports. Syria will never turn into Afghanistan.
Well Chechnya did and in the 80s it was more developed than Syria now. Hell even Afghanistan itself wasn't bad at all during the 60s and 70s; it was a progressive (for the region) society with an expanding economy.
I can see Syria becoming Afghanistan right now. All these rebels, armed gangs, destroyed buildings, ruined infastructure & economy, suicide bombings, masses of refugees, abandoned military equipment lying around everywhere, loss of government control in many regions.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 06:47 AM
In my opinion, never. Their lack of discipline, strategical insight, technology and internal disputes will make sure that they will never pose a significant threat to Israel. They will be more a threat to Lebanon and Iraq. And besides that, I expect they will eventually follow the same path as Egypt is following now under the Muslim Brotherhood.
The thing is that they will not control all their territory. It will take time to have an effective police,etc..Jihadist groups will try to conduct terrorist attacks.

Camera
02-09-2013, 06:48 AM
In my opinion, never. Their lack of discipline, strategical insight, technology and internal disputes will make sure that they will never pose a significant threat to Israel. They will be more a threat to Lebanon and Iraq. And besides that, I expect they will eventually follow the same path as Egypt is following now under the Muslim Brotherhood.

X2
Besides that, when they will have to manage the country, they will lose of their influence as they will face the same difficulties the MBs face in Egypt and Tunisia.
Ironically, the only place the MB's power is stable is in the Gaza ***** which receives massive external aid.

Camera
02-09-2013, 07:05 AM
No it doesn't; what Assad did is sponsor a friendly Islamist group that was in his political interests to sponsor; but that's no different to anything the US, Turkey, or Russia at one point were doing.
I'm talking about the whole country becoming one giant failed state and exporting nothing other than radical ideology, training services for international jihadists, piracy, banditry & drugs.

You don't know what you are talking about.
It's not just about Hezbollah terrorists who took control of Lebanon, a country the Assads destabilize for almost 40 years, and about which you do not care. It's also about funding and arming Hamas, Islamic Jihad, FPLP-GC… and many other terror groups who killed over 1,000 Israelis in the last decade.


What's this got to do with Russia?

It has to do, because Russia linked its policy in this country to a single mafia like family that rules the country like it was its private business.


You were talking all high and mighty about the Syrian's right to overthrow their dictator and so on, and I was talking about what would better for the country and people itself.

It's not my business neither yours, but its the business of the Syrians to know what is better for them.


But now suddenly it's OK even if Syria becomes a failed state, because the most important thing is that you have your vengeance, and what's left there is not a threat to Israel anymore.

I never sais I wanted Syria to become a failed state, neither expressed vengeance wishes. I said that from a strategic POV a Syria without Assad is better for Israel even if it is failed state during a transition period.


Well Chechnya did and in the 80s it was more developed than Syria now. Hell even Afghanistan itself wasn't bad at all during the 60s and 70s; it was a progressive (for the region) society with an expanding economy.
I can see Syria becoming Afghanistan right now. All these rebels, armed gangs, destroyed buildings, ruined infastructure & economy, suicide bombings, masses of refugees, abandoned military equipment lying around everywhere, loss of government control in many regions.

Had Assad initiated political reforms and left power none of this would have happened. The responsibilities lies on him and those who support him.

Ya22
02-09-2013, 07:10 AM
LOL..i'm not YA22(we are online together right now..).
Laker1 is on the laptop, I'm on the PC and crush6655 is on the tablet.. I'm one person :-D

Stuja
02-09-2013, 07:20 AM
At least under Assad there was no sectarian warfare and destruction. But his security forces caused this with all the rape and torture in the beginning. :p it's like the boy who cried wolf first they blamed jihadis and now they are actually fighting them lol

prince99x
02-09-2013, 07:21 AM
They seem disorganized now, but when Asad falls, the jihadists will take over (the so called "FSA" is a minor force) and they will get organized. Once Syria becomes a sunni islamic state it can potentially be more dangerous than the tamed Assad regime. Hezzbalah will still get support from Iran (and they are quite autonomous to a certain degree), Hamas has already moved away from Asad and "gone revolution".I'm still of the opinion that sunni fanatics are a much bigger threat than shia fanatics (especially in a global pov). With the success of the islamic revolution in Syria the power balance will shift even further in favor of sunni terror & islamic militancy.Hamas leader Khaled mashaal said that president Asad is still supporting Hamas even after it/she/he left Damascus.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 07:26 AM
You don't know what you are talking about. It's not just about Hezbollah terrorists who took control of Lebanon, a country the Assads destabilize for almost 40 years, and about which you do not care. It's also about funding and arming Hamas, Islamic Jihad, FPLP-GC* and many other terror groups who killed over 1,000 Israelis in the last decade. It has to do, because Russia linked its policy in this country to a single mafia like family that rules the country like it was its private business. It's not my business neither yours, but its the business of the Syrians to know what is better for them. I never sais I wanted Syria to become a failed state, neither expressed vengeance wishes. I said that from a strategic POV a Syria without Assad is better for Israel even if it is failed state during a transition period. Had Assad initiated political reforms and left power none of this would have happened. The responsibilities lies on him and those who support him.So by ur words the Asad survival is a winning for him over the west.Again by ur words he is winning by just staying in the lead.Correct me.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 07:27 AM
Hamas leader Khaled mashaal said that president Asad is still supporting Hamas even after it/she/he left Damascus.http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/khaled-meshaal-hamas-fatah-in-unity-talks/138749/

Camera
02-09-2013, 07:31 AM
So by ur words the Asad survival is a winning for him over the west.Again by ur words he is winning by just staying in the lead.Correct me.

There's a difference between surviving and winning. Assad still survives because we are not taking part to the armed conflict. We just destroy his economy and preventing him, this way, from ever winning this war.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 07:37 AM
There's a difference between surviving and winning. Assad still survives because we are not taking part to the armed conflict. We just destroy his economy and preventing him, this way, from ever winning this war.

When Assad will not have money to pay his soldiers,it will be the end of him.

Camera
02-09-2013, 07:39 AM
When Assad will not have money to pay his soldiers,it will be the end of him.

He will continue to print money in Russia until the Syrian Lira will have as much value as Monopoly bills.

Stuja
02-09-2013, 07:42 AM
If there were no sanctions would the Syrian government be able to support a working economy anyway ?

Camera
02-09-2013, 07:44 AM
If there were no sanctions would the Syrian government be able to support a working economy anyway ?

At this stage, I don't have the impression it could. It does not control anymore the oil wells that were its main source of foreign currency.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 07:47 AM
There's a difference between surviving and winning. Assad still survives because we are not taking part to the armed conflict. We just destroy his economy and preventing him, this way, from ever winning this war.No u just make it hard to get Europe made products.You just make it hard to get anti-virus updates.That's the full effect of this sanctions nothing more.Syria has water and food enough for her and export some too.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 07:49 AM
At this stage, I don't have the impression it could. It does not control anymore the oil wells that were its main source of foreign currency.Who in the hell told u that we don't control our oil wells.

Camera
02-09-2013, 07:50 AM
No u just make it hard to get Europe made products.You just make it hard to get anti-virus updates.That's the full effect of this sanctions nothing more.Syria has water and food enough for her and export some too.

Had Assad accepted medical assistance by UN agencies, the Syrians would have get it. The sanctions disrupt Assad's war economy.

Camera
02-09-2013, 07:50 AM
Who in the hell told u that we don't control our oil wells.

Many if not most of them were captured by the rebels in Eastern Syria. There were reports posted about it in this thread.

Arbody
02-09-2013, 07:51 AM
When Assad will not have money to pay his soldiers,it will be the end of him.
Sure :roll: and then Christian and Alawite soldiers will let Sunni and Wahabi terroristst to cut their throats and rape their women???

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:04 AM
Rebels close in on heart of Damascus


Rebel fighters moved closer to the Syrian capital of Damascus on Friday, with fierce battles against government forces reported on the periphery of the city resulting in over 40 deaths, opposition groups said.

By News Wires (http://www.france24.com/en/category/tags-auteurs/news-wires) (text)

Syrian government forces battled on Friday to recapture sections of the Damascus ring road from rebels pressing in on the capital, opposition activists said.

War planes fired rockets around Jobar, Qaboun and Barzeh neighbourhoods, the sources said. Heavy fighting was taking place at the Hermalleh junction on the ring road just south of Jobar, which had been seized by the rebels.

Rebel fighters based in the eastern Ghouta region broke through government defensive lines on Wednesday, capturing parts of the road and entering Jobar, 2 km (one mile) from security bases in the heart of the city.

(…)

The Local Coordination Committees, an opposition activist group, said 44 people were killed in Damascus on Friday. They said 46 people were killed on Thursday, mostly from army shelling.


With a supply line open to military bases on the coast, Assad’s core forces from his minority Alawite sect are still based comfortably in the Qasioun mountains on the northwest edge of Damascus, from where they have been shelling the suburbs.

Rebel commanders say they have made mistakes in the past, entering Damascus and other cities without first cutting army supply lines.

Fawaz Tello, a veteran opposition campaigner connected with rebels in Damascus, said the operation was part of a slow encroachment by rebels on the capital.

“Even if the rebels withdraw from the ring road, it will become, like other parts of the capital, too dangerous for the regime to use it,” said Tello, speaking from Berlin.

“We are witnessing a ‘two steps forward, one step back’ rebel strategy. It is a long way before we can say Assad has become besieged in Damascus, but when another main road is rendered useless for him the noose tightens and his control further erodes.”

http://www.france24.com/en/20130209-syria-rebels-close-damascus-jobar

Stuja
02-09-2013, 08:05 AM
Sure :roll: and then Christian and Alawite soldiers will let Sunni and Wahabi terroristst to cut their throats and rape their women???
Yea I am sure there are a good amount of experienced Syrian infantry soldiers that also know the government collapsing is worse

Climber
02-09-2013, 08:07 AM
Sure :roll: and then Christian and Alawite soldiers will let Sunni and Wahabi terroristst to cut their throats and rape their women???

What have this thing to do with what Laker1 said?

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:07 AM
By now, the massacres were authored by the government and the Shabiha.

Arbody
02-09-2013, 08:10 AM
What have this thing to do with what Laker1 said?
Use your brain it may help.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 08:11 AM
Sure :roll: and then Christian and Alawite soldiers will let Sunni and Wahabi terroristst to cut their throats and rape their women???

It's a good question,but i don't think that they will work without getting salaries..what you would do if you wouldn't get your salary? You would continue to work?..

Stuja
02-09-2013, 08:13 AM
By now, the massacres were authored by the government and the Shabiha.
I can't imagine the kind of systematic rape and torture that happens in Syria especially in areas where protests began, horrible

Arbody
02-09-2013, 08:14 AM
It's a good question,but i don't think that they will work without getting salaries..what you would do if you wouldn't get your salary? You would continue to work?..
Nope, but after two years it's not matter of salary anymore I think. It's matter of life and death.You won't take your money to the grave.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 08:16 AM
Many if not most of them were captured by the rebels in Eastern Syria. There were reports posted about it in this thread.I know that but the reports can't keep up with the real time changing world.

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:20 AM
I know that but the reports can't keep up with the real time changing world.

Do you have a link to a report saying the SAA recaptured the wells?

Vespasian
02-09-2013, 08:24 AM
At least under Assad there was no sectarian warfare and destruction. But his security forces caused this with all the rape and torture in the beginning. :p it's like the boy who cried wolf first they blamed jihadis and now they are actually fighting them lol

Although I'm sure there were some war crimes, I wouldn't say it was anywhere near as wide spread as the western media has portrayed. I'm just noticing during this conflict how much western media outlets are used as propaganda machines for their respective governments. Ofcourse all governments do it, but it is very difficult to find objective media sources about the conflict.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 08:26 AM
Nope, but after two years it's not matter of salary anymore I think. It's matter of life and death.You won't take your money to the grave.

If i understand you well,you are saying that even if they will leave Assad ,they will have to fight because the "rebels" will try to kill them,Right? It's very possible that they will want "revenge" ,but i don't think that it will be in their interests to kill Alwaites when they will be in power because they will not get any support from the West and it will be very important for them to get the support of the West to build their country(as long as it's not an Islamist regime..if it will be an Islamist regime,the West will not support them i guess..) ,so i don't think that they will hunt Alawites systematically. Maybe only top officials ,but not the entire Alwaite population.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 08:27 AM
Do you have a link to a report saying the SAA recaptured the wells?No but i have those facts. 1- We had surplus in gasoline and we exported it.2-The oil refinery in Hims us bumped up and working as hell, tens of oil tankers trucks im seeing everday on my way to college.

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:28 AM
Although I'm sure there were some war crimes, I wouldn't say it was anywhere near as wide spread as the western media has portrayed. I'm just noticing during this conflict how much western media outlets are used as propaganda machines for their respective governments. Ofcourse all governments do it, but it is very difficult to find objective media sources about the conflict.

Had Assad preferred objective reporting, he would have let the international media to enter Syria and cover the uprising. The fact he didn't suggests that crimes were widely spread than it was reported.

Arbody
02-09-2013, 08:33 AM
If i understand you,You are saying that even if they will leave Assad they will have to fight because the "rebels" will try to kill them,Right? It's very possible that they will want to "revenge" but i don't think tha it will be in their interests to kill Alwaites when they will be in power because they will not get any support from the world and it will be very important for them to get the support of the West to build their country(as long as it's not an Islamist regime,if it will be an Islamist regime,the West will not support them i guess..) ,so i don't think that they will hunt Alawites systematically. Maybe only top officials ,but not the entire Alwaite population.
West is trying to hava a cookie and ate a cookie it doesn't work this way in a long term. If you will look in to the past and history in that region. You'll have the answer. Islamist will suppress any even cripple "pro-democtaric" movement in Syria, freedome and democracy is not what they are fighting for.

Had Assad preferred objective reporting, he would have let the international media to enter Syria and cover the uprising. The fact he didn't suggests that crimes were widely spread than it was reported.
Such a fail. Western media aren't interested from the begining in truth and balanced reports. Why should Assad trust them anyway?

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:33 AM
No but i have those facts. 1- We had surplus in gasoline and we exported it.2-The oil refinery in Hims us bumped up and working as hell, tens of oil tankers trucks im seeing everday on my way to college.

It doesn't mean the SAA controls the wells. The refinery can work on stocked oil. As long as I know, the SAA lost further ground in the East rather than recapturing it.

Climber
02-09-2013, 08:37 AM
nevermind


1234556

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:39 AM
(…)

Such a fail. Western media aren't interested from the begining in truth and balanced reports. Why should Assad trust them anyway?

BS.
Most Western media are independent, their editorial line do not relies on governmental agenda. Journalists criticize their own governments without being mysteriously killed like in some authoritative states, if you see what I mean. ;)

Arbody
02-09-2013, 08:39 AM
nevermind


1234556
Dude :cantbeli: .

BS.
Most Western media are independent, their reporting do not relies on governmental agenda. Journalists criticize their own governments without being mysteriously killed like in some authoritative states.
You are living in a wonderland.

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:42 AM
(…)

You are living in a wonderland.

I live in France. Our journalists criticize our presidents and none was killed for doing so as it did happen in your country.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 08:44 AM
Dude :cantbeli: .You are living in a wonderland.Camera need an electric shock to wake up and see the real world not the perfect world.

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:46 AM
Camera need an electric shock to wake up and see the real world not the perfect world.

Up to now, the electric shock, you are the one to experience it. ;)

Arbody
02-09-2013, 08:48 AM
I live in France. Our journalists criticize our presidents and none was killed for doing so as it did happen in your country.
This is bright example of how media works in the west. You don't even have any idea what you are talking about but you know better. Tell me please how many journalists Putin killed.

Vespasian
02-09-2013, 08:50 AM
Such a fail. Western media aren't interested from the begining in truth and balanced reports. Why should Assad trust them anyway?

This man speaks the truth.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK3Ss4GARPA

BBC is a joke news station, kinda like CNN and Al Jazeera. Al Jazeera also has a vested interest in their propaganda, because they are owned by one of the countries arming the terrorists. Many journalists have quit Al Jazeera because of their bulls**t propaganda.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x--Td_8JXYk

Where is all the western media coverage about the uprising in Bahrain?

Laker1
02-09-2013, 08:50 AM
West is trying to hava a cookie and ate a cookie it doesn't work this way in a long term. If you will look in to the past and history in that region. You'll have the answer. Islamist will suppress any even cripple "pro-democtaric" movement in Syria, freedome and democracy is not what they are fighting for.


I'm not saying that there will be democracy in Syria but you also can't ignore the fact that Assad is a brutal dictator. The question is ,if the next regime will be better or worse..i don't think that they will have a democratic country,but probably it will not be bad like under Assad's rule and the Shabiha. The biggest question is if the regime will be an Islamist one like you have in Egypt,Tunisia and other places or a secular one. The "rebels" will fight between themselves over the power. You have "rebels" that are jihadists and you have secular ones. We will see who will take the power..

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:52 AM
This is bright example of how media works in the west. You don't even have any idea what you are talking about but you know better. Tell me please how many journalists Putin killed.

I don't know who killed the Russian journalists, but in France journalists risk nothing if they criticize the gov and no journalist was killed in mysteriously circumstances.

tea drinker
02-09-2013, 08:54 AM
I live in France. Our journalists criticize our presidents and none was killed for doing so as it did happen in your country.
Well our premier suggested they kill themselves, so that's ok. p-)
Western media is frequently biased - you know this and that's why if you want the truth you use other sources for stories.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 08:54 AM
Up to now, the electric shock, you are the one to experience it. ;)Yeah definitely :).

Stuja
02-09-2013, 08:56 AM
U say bbc is a propaganda joke but then post Russia today ... Both are lol !

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:58 AM
Well our premier suggested they kill themselves, so that's ok. p-)
Western media is frequently biased - you know this and that's why if you want the truth you use other sources for stories.

I know it and I don't take for granted any report. Nevertheless, the freedom of press offers a diversified coverage from multiple independent sources. The fact Assad did not let the press cover the uprising suggests it was his interest to keep blackout over what's going on rather than exposing it.

Stuja
02-09-2013, 09:00 AM
Although I'm sure there were some war crimes, I wouldn't say it was anywhere near as wide spread as the western media has portrayed. I'm just noticing during this conflict how much western media outlets are used as propaganda machines for their respective governments. Ofcourse all governments do it, but it is very difficult to find objective media sources about the conflict.
Interesting point but even a lower amount of rape and ****** assault still causes animosity and hatred.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 09:01 AM
I don't know who killed the Russian journalists, but in France journalists risk nothing if they criticize the gov and no journalist was killed in mysteriously circumstances.It's rude to lugh at deaths but ur post up here made me lol .Hence thats french camera man killed in Hims by a mortor round by the very French-supported armed gangs.For sure no journalists die in mysterious circumstances but in all lies circumstances.In Arabic we say that ur being a sheep-ed for ur gov BS stories.

tea drinker
02-09-2013, 09:02 AM
I know it and I don't take for granted any report. Nevertheless, the freedom of press offers a diversified coverage from multiple independent sources. The fact Assad did not let the press cover the uprising suggests it was his interest to keep blackout over what's going on rather than exposing it.
You were impressed by the detailed Israeli coverage of the recent strike? But yes, generally corruption loves silence.

Vespasian
02-09-2013, 09:06 AM
I'm not saying that there will be democracy in Syria but you also can't ignore the fact that Assad is a brutal dictator.

Brutal how? Last time I checked Syria was a secular country where different religions and etnicities lived side by side in peace and prosperity? They are also in zero debt to the IMF, and their economy was actually growing during the financial crisis. Also Assad was moving towards reforms of the constitution to allow for free elections.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 09:06 AM
RT is not better than BBC. They are all biased. If you look for example on the coverage of the Israeli-Arab conflict in RT,it's more biased than in Al-Jezzera. They only talk about Israeli settlements and not about Arab rocket attacks and other things.

Camera
02-09-2013, 09:07 AM
It's rude to lugh at deaths but ur post up here made me lol .Hence thats french camera man killed in Hims by a mortor round by the very French-supported armed gangs.For sure no journalists die in mysterious circumstances but in all lies circumstances.In Arabic we say that ur being a sheep-ed for ur gov BS stories.

You see it from your perspective of a citizen of a country in which the media are controlled by the gov. It's not the case in France. The media publish for sure a lot of BS and a fraction of them practice serious reporting but none relies on the government.
Our media focus mostly on France's internal affairs and on governmental scandals, when such occur, rather than on Syria or any other international affairs.

Vespasian
02-09-2013, 09:09 AM
U say bbc is a propaganda joke but then post Russia today ... Both are lol !

Yeah I don't put much stock in RT's reporting either, but a lot of media outlets reported on the Al Jazeera journalists quiting.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 09:09 AM
Brutal how? Last time I checked Syria was a secular country where different religions and etnicities lived side by side in peace and prosperity? They are also in zero debt to the IMF, and their economy was actually growing during the financial crisis. Also Assad was moving towards reforms of the constitution to allow for free elections.
They didn't have any freedoms under his rule..if you were against the regime,you could be jailed or something like that.

Arbody
02-09-2013, 09:11 AM
RT is not better than BBC. They are all biased. If you look for example on the coverage of the Israeli-Arab conflict in RT,it's more biased than in Al-Jezzera. They only talk about Israeli settlements and not about Arab rocket attacks and other things.
Of course they talk about it but they showing it in a different light. RT shows selective facts but they don't lie, BBC lying straight in your face.

Camera
02-09-2013, 09:12 AM
You were impressed by the detailed Israeli coverage of the recent strike? But yes, generally corruption loves silence.

The Israeli press is submitted to military censure when it comes to military operations. The journalists can report whatever they want as long as it was published abroad, but they can not reveal details from their Israeli sources if those details are forbidden for publication by military censure.

Stuja
02-09-2013, 09:13 AM
Yeah I don't put much stock in RT's reporting either, but a lot of media outlets reported on the Al Jazeera journalists quiting.
Yea I don't know about the al jazeera Arabic. I used to be a fan of al jazeera english but after awhile the Syria bias was getting ****ing ridiculous.

Flamming_Python
02-09-2013, 09:14 AM
You don't know what you are talking about.
It's not just about Hezbollah terrorists who took control of Lebanon, a country the Assads destabilize for almost 40 years, and about which you do not care. It's also about funding and arming Hamas, Islamic Jihad, FPLP-GC… and many other terror groups who killed over 1,000 Israelis in the last decade.

Lebanon will be the next domino to fall if Assad falls and Syria becomes a cesspool of extremism and armed bands. That place will light up like a Christmas tree; in fact the first signs of it already there.
And if Lebanon collapses; that will be even more trouble for Israel.
This is what I mean when I said that a failed state cannot be contained or walled-off, and it will spill out to everywhere around it.


It has to do, because Russia linked its policy in this country to a single mafia like family that rules the country like it was its private business.

It's not Russia's place to say to a people, who they should or shouldn't be ruled by.
Russia deals with a country's government as it is - because there is no other government that represents those people, and the Russians are not interested in provoking any conflicts.
Of course there are some minimum standards; Russia wouldn't deal with the Taliban for example. And I'd argue that Russia needs some more principles too.
But Assad's Syria was probably one of the best countries in the Middle East by any measure.

If you want to critisise Russia for something - you can take a look at Chechnya for example; where Russia has installed a brutal dictator who has created a semi-Islamist fiefdom for himself and his clan, that only pays lip-service to the Russian constitution.
Now that was a mistake.
Russia's policy on Syria however is absolutely no mistake - it's the best out of any other country and mainly encourages reconciliation rather than trying to provoke conflict.


It's not my business neither yours, but its the business of the Syrians to know what is better for them.

You're right, that's why I support Russia not interfering and counter-acting moves by other countries to interfere in the Syrian conflict.


I never sais I wanted Syria to become a failed state, neither expressed vengeance wishes. I said that from a strategic POV a Syria without Assad is better for Israel even if it is failed state during a transition period.

If it ends up as a failed state - there will be no transition to anything. And there will be no possibilities of peace treaties, or deterrence, or diplomacy - there will be no-one to negotiate with.


Had Assad initiated political reforms and left power none of this would have happened. The responsibilities lies on him and those who support him.

Maybe, but even more so - Assad's mistake was siding with Iran rather than jumping on the Gulf Arab bandwagon and teaming up with the 'good guys'

prince99x
02-09-2013, 09:16 AM
You see it from your perspective of a citizen of a country in which the media are controlled by the gov. It's not the case in France. The media publish for sure a lot of BS and a fraction of them practice serious reporting but none relies on the government. Our media focus mostly on France's internal affairs and on governmental scandals, when such occur, rather than on Syria or any other international affairs.True it was W A S fully controlled by gov but now with the new media assets revolution(non- gov channels,non-gov magz websites fb pages ..etc ,better secretary of media)the situation is thousands times better,more powerful,more honest,more truth,and i hope it will continue up to the best.

Vespasian
02-09-2013, 09:16 AM
They didn't have any freedoms under his rule..if you were against the regime,you could be jailed or something like that.

Define, 'against the regime,' Syria was working towards changes in it's constitution to allow for free elections. I'd rather have Assad than Muslim fundamentalists who are going to try and introduce Sharia law. I don't think I would fancy being a christian or an Alawite/Shiite in Syria if the SNC come to power.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 09:19 AM
Of course they talk about it but they showing it in a different light. RT shows selective facts but they don't lie, BBC lying straight in your face.

To be selective it means biased..you must report on everything that happends in both sided. They must report on the settlements and they must report on the rocket attacks. They only report when Israel bombs Gaza. They don't say what happend before. Maybe it's because the rockets usually don't injure or kill,but they still must report on it and on other things that the Arabs do. Not only about building in the settlements and other things that Israel does.

Vespasian
02-09-2013, 09:21 AM
Assad's mistake was siding with Iran rather than jumping on the Gulf Arab bandwagon and teaming up with the 'good guys'

I wouldn't call them, 'good guys,' but having any sort of alliance with Iran was always going to bring trouble for Assad.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 09:22 AM
Yea I don't know about the al jazeera Arabic. I used to be a fan of al jazeera english but after awhile the Syria bias was getting ****ing ridiculous.OMG u don't need a single clip of the Arabic version,its pure stupidity of BS injection methods into the empty minds of unconscious Arab people.The definition above is a registered mark by me.

bionic
02-09-2013, 09:23 AM
Of course they talk about it but they showing it in a different light. RT shows selective facts but they don't lie, BBC lying straight in your face.

Ahahaha dont tell me you are really believing in what you are writing... there is not a single News Agency out there that is not lying or twisting facts......rofl

Laker1
02-09-2013, 09:29 AM
Define, 'against the regime,' Syria was working towards changes in it's constitution to allow for free elections. I'd rather have Assad than Muslim fundamentalists who are going to try and introduce Sharia law. I don't think I would fancy being a christian or an Alawite/Shiite in Syria if the SNC come to power.

I don't know in details..i know in general that the Baathist regime is a brutal dictatorship that doesn't allow the people to express themselves. Assad won the elections in 98-99%(i don't remember exactly). I don't think that Stalin got votes like that..i don't ignore the fact that the West is against Assad more because of his ties to Iran and that he supports terrorists and he is anti West rather than because of the human rights in the country,but the West didn't start the rebellion in Syria. The Syrians started it like in other Arab countries.

Camera
02-09-2013, 09:36 AM
Lebanon will be the next domino to fall if Assad falls and Syria becomes a cesspool of extremism and armed bands. That place will light up like a Christmas tree; in fact the first signs of it already there.
And if Lebanon collapses; that will be even more trouble for Israel.
This is what I mean when I said that a failed state cannot be contained or walled-off, and it will spill out to everywhere around it.

I don't share your assessment. Troubles will spread to Lebanon, but I don't think the Lebanese society will restart the civil war


It's not Russia's place to say to a people, who they should or shouldn't be ruled by.
Russia deals with a country's government as it is - because there is no other government that represents those people, and the Russians are not interested in provoking any conflicts.
Of course there are some minimum standards; Russia wouldn't deal with the Taliban for example. And I'd argue that Russia needs some more principles too.

In this regard, your standards are lower than ours.


But Assad's Syria was probably one of the best countries in the Middle East by any measure.

It was a so wonderful place that its citizens had nothing else to do but to start a civil war. ;)


If you want to critisise Russia for something - you can take a look at Chechnya for example; where Russia has installed a brutal dictator who has created a semi-Islamist fiefdom for himself and his clan, that only pays lip-service to the Russian constitution.
Now that was a mistake.

Maybe your mistake is to project on Syria what happened in Chechenia, even though the situation and the story are different.


Russia's policy on Syria however is absolutely no mistake - it's the best out of any other country and mainly encourages reconciliation rather than trying to provoke conflict.

After meeting Lavrov, the opposition leader proposed last week a dialogue with the deputy-president of Syria. Assad rejected the offer. What do you need more to understand that Syrian national interests pales in comparison to Assad's clan private interests?


………SNIP........

If it ends up as a failed state - there will be no transition to anything. And there will be no possibilities of peace treaties, or deterrence, or diplomacy - there will be no-one to negotiate with.

It will be forcefully a transition to stability. Even more bloody revolutions ended, sooner or later, by reaching stability.
Otherwise, there were no peace treaties in the last 40 years neither.


Maybe, but even more so - Assad's mistake was siding with Iran rather than jumping on the Gulf Arab bandwagon and teaming up with the 'good guys'

Assad faults were:

1. To oppress his people to the point they revolted against his rule.
2. To practice an international policy of terror sponsor.

Surenas
02-09-2013, 09:41 AM
What I remember from the last time I've visited Damascus is that the city was full with plain clothes intelligence officers, who stopped me occasionally by asking me for my passport.

Ya22
02-09-2013, 09:44 AM
What I remember from the last time I've visited Damascus is that the city was full with plain clothes intelligence officers, who stopped me occasionally asking me for my passport.
Very healthy country..

Climber
02-09-2013, 09:44 AM
You were impressed by the detailed Israeli coverage of the recent strike? But yes, generally corruption loves silence.

The Israeli press covered the raid plenty, and you tell me that because the IDF and the government have a policy of so called "ambiguity" regarding those things, that make them corrupt? its there a law in the UK that makes the Gov files accessible to the press? no? I thought so.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 10:01 AM
What I remember from the last time I've visited Damascus is that the city was full with plain clothes intelligence officers, who stopped me occasionally by asking me for my passport.

They are afraid from foregin spies or something like that..

Arbody
02-09-2013, 10:08 AM
They are afraid from foregin spies or something like that..
Time shows that they were right.

Camera
02-09-2013, 10:11 AM
What I remember from the last time I've visited Damascus is that the city was full with plain clothes intelligence officers, who stopped me occasionally by asking me for my passport.

These guys worked for the Mukhabarat. They could have arrested you and tortured you like they have done to tens of thousands of people.

Surenas
02-09-2013, 10:14 AM
These guys worked for the Mukhabarat. They could have arrested you and tortured you like they have done to tens of thousands of people.

Correct. They even have arrested Iranian (Arab) dissidents like Abdullah al-Mansouri and extradited them to Iran. But I guess I'm not that much of a threat to them.

Piano
02-09-2013, 10:16 AM
The BBC has problems. But nobody with an IQ above 90 could watch Russia Today with a straight face. It is complete trash, and a thousand times more biased than the BBC. This forum is full of retards.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 10:16 AM
Time shows that they were right.

How do you know that there are spies? I'm sure there are but they can't oust Assad by themselves..

Camera
02-09-2013, 10:18 AM
'We don't want weapons to fall into wrong hands'
White House says decision to rebuff plan to arm Syrian rebels was due to fear that weapon reaches hands of terrorists; 'no weapon shortage in Syria," press secretary says

Yitzhak Benhorin

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4342816,00.html

Laker1
02-09-2013, 10:19 AM
'We don't want weapons to fall into wrong hands'


White House says decision to rebuff plan to arm Syrian rebels was due to fear that weapon reaches hands of terrorists; 'no weapon shortage in Syria," press secretary says

Yitzhak Benhorin

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4342816,00.html

One of the few things that Obama does right..he shouldn't give them weapons. They will reach the hands of radical Muslims. Many of the "rebels" have big beards. A big beard is not a good sign..

ZapB
02-09-2013, 10:39 AM
One of the few things that Obama does right..he shouldn't give them weapons. They will reach the hands of radical Muslims. Many of the "rebels" have big beards. A big beard is not a good sign..
This may sound racialist, but it's actually a good rule (one that it's easy to remember, even for stupid & shortsighted western politicians): The bigger the beard, the less weapons you should give them.

Flamming_Python
02-09-2013, 11:11 AM
In this regard, your standards are lower than ours.

Well since you've brought my country into it (although I still don't know why), then I'll just say that your comment is rich considering the French support to the Gulf Arab Islamist monarchies and the Islamist rebels fighting Assad in Syria!

Camera
02-09-2013, 11:26 AM
Well since you've brought my country into it (although I still don't know why), then I'll just say that your comment is rich considering the French support to the Gulf Arab Islamist monarchies and the Islamist rebels fighting Assad in Syria!

France does not support the 'Islamist rebels fighting Assad in Syria' and we support the Gulf monarchies for their oil.

Genotype
02-09-2013, 12:23 PM
The BBC has problems. But nobody with an IQ above 90 could watch Russia Today with a straight face. It is complete trash, and a thousand times more biased than the BBC. This forum is full of retards.

Unfortunately, this. People here are calling the BBC biased, then will post news from RT, PressTV or Al Manar with a straight face.

Apparently the real definition of bias now means "does not agree with your world view".

Back to talking about Syria anyway. Cabinet reshuffle.

http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-president-reshuffles-economic-cabinet-posts-090606937.html;_ylt=AnGupDxRflHINTNIvh6wqDlvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTNyb2NsNHJyBG1pdANUb3BTdG9yeSBXb3JsZFNGBHBrZwM2MTM1YWZkMi1jNWFhLTM3NjQtOGViZS0wMWQyYTkxNWNjZTUEcG9zAzEwBHNlYwN0b3Bfc3RvcnkEdmVyA2UyOWJiZTMwLTcyYjktMTFlMi1hZjViLWMzMGI1NGRmZjg3MQ-;_ylg=X3oDMTFqOTI2ZDZmBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdAN3b3JsZARwdANzZWN0aW9ucw--;_ylv=3


Syrian President Bashar Assad reshuffled his Cabinet on Saturday, appointing seven new ministers in a move that appeared aimed at trying to shore up an economy that has been ravaged by the country's 2-year-old revolt, state media said.
State TV said Assad replaced the heads of the oil, finance, social affairs, labor, housing, public works and agriculture ministries.

Flamming_Python
02-09-2013, 12:50 PM
This may sound racialist, but it's actually a good rule (one that it's easy to remember, even for stupid & shortsighted western politicians): The bigger the beard, the less weapons you should give them.

That one should be called:
The inverse proportional beard arms law

tea drinker
02-09-2013, 01:29 PM
The Israeli press covered the raid plenty, and you tell me that because the IDF and the government have a policy of so called "ambiguity" regarding those things, that make them corrupt? its there a law in the UK that makes the Gov files accessible to the press? no? I thought so.
If you recall we talk about lack of Assad co operating with press, I see little of this cooperation regarding the last raid. Where are the images from the strikes? Where is the detailed mission breakdown? Yes I understand this is a military concern, but contrast that with NATO operations as far back as '99 Serbia, and the level of detail there. And at this point - we knew more about the Osama op than what happened in Syria.
The corruption comment is merely an observation, I'm not describing the operation and coverage as that - yet ;-)
Sure we can say the Israeli work differently - but for some reason we can't say the same about Assad?


About the RT news channelt - of course RT is biased, but it is worth watching as it may have alternate information and facts which are unpalatable to other agencies - and vice versa of course. There is no shining beacon of light in the media world.
For me - BBC is pretty good. Even Al-Jazeera, thoguh it's slipping. Euronews was excellent, already slipped badly some years back.

Camera
02-09-2013, 01:36 PM
If you recall we talk about lack of Assad co operating with press, I see little of this cooperation regarding the last raid. Where are the images from the strikes? Where is the detailed mission breakdown? Yes I understand this is a military concern, but contrast that with NATO operations as far back as '99 Serbia, and the level of detail there. And at this point - we knew more about the Osama op than what happened in Syria.
The corruption comment is merely an observation, I'm not describing the operation and coverage as that - yet ;-)
Sure we can say the Israeli work differently - but for some reason we can't say the same about Assad?

You compare uncomparable things. In Israel local and foreign press have free access to the country and freedom to report. If the government is unwilling to acknowledge a military operation in Syria or Sudan, it is its right. If it wants to acknowledge operations in other contexts and to provide pictures of the strikes, it is its right too.

EITAN88
02-09-2013, 01:39 PM
If you recall we talk about lack of Assad co operating with press, I see little of this cooperation regarding the last raid. Where are the images from the strikes? Where is the detailed mission breakdown? Yes I understand this is a military concern, but contrast that with NATO operations as far back as '99 Serbia, and the level of detail there.

Israel is not NATO and lacks many of the luxuries that NATO countries enjoy.

I highly doubt that the Serbs were ever in a position to retaliate against London as Hizbollah and Syria are capable of doing to Tel-Aviv, that's essentially the crux of the matter and why your comparison is of apples and oranges.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 01:41 PM
No one says that governments should reveal details about covert operations and stuff like that..it doesn't have any connection to freedom of Press. There are things that no one should know about them including journalists.

Surenas
02-09-2013, 01:42 PM
Guys, please stay on topic. :)

Camera
02-09-2013, 01:43 PM
Release of pictures of the strike would have humiliated the Assad gang and would have forced it to retaliate. The Israeli planers are well aware of the psychology of their enemies.

Impartial Bias
02-09-2013, 01:43 PM
Morning, Gentlemen.
I've been out of the loop for about two weeks. Would anyone mind pointing out any noteworthy developments while I look over the last 150 or so pages?

ImpNavigator
02-09-2013, 01:43 PM
Meanwhile..
Official confirmation, that the Russians large landing ships in January brought military equipment in Tartus for the Syrian army according previously awarded contract.
http://www.itar-tass.com/c11/644836.html (In Russian)

Laker1
02-09-2013, 01:45 PM
Release of pictures of the strike would have humiliated the Assad gang and would have forced it to retaliate. The Israeli planers are well aware of the psychology of their enemies.

I'm not so sure because Assad himself revealed the strike..

Camera
02-09-2013, 01:46 PM
Morning, Gentlemen.
I've been out of the loop for about two weeks. Would anyone mind pointing out any noteworthy developments while I look over the last 150 or so pages?

The IAF attacked near Damascus A convoy of weapons that Assad sent to Hezbollah.
The rebels launched a wide scale offensive in Damascus two days ago.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 01:47 PM
Meanwhile..
Official confirmation, that the Russians large landing ships in January brought military equipment in Tartus for the Syrian army according previously awarded contract.
http://www.itar-tass.com/c11/644836.html (In Russian)

It's not a secret that Russia gives Assad weapons.

Camera
02-09-2013, 01:49 PM
Meanwhile..
Official confirmation, that the Russians large landing ships in January brought military equipment in Tartus for the Syrian army according previously awarded contract.
http://www.itar-tass.com/c11/644836.html (In Russian)

It's a shame.


I'm not so sure because Assad himself revealed the strike..

It was his own choice to do it and to reveal it in a why that suits him just as he did in 2007.

Impartial Bias
02-09-2013, 01:51 PM
The IAF attacked near Damascus A convoy of weapons that Assad sent to Hezbollah.
The rebels launched a wide scale offensive in Damascus two days ago.

I heard something about the IAF airstrike, it hit AA weapons going to Hezbollah, correct?
As for the offensive, is it limited to Darayya, or Damascus proper?
Thank you Camera.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 01:57 PM
It was his own choice to do it and to reveal it in a why that suits him just as he did in 2007.

And also then he didn't reply..but yes,we didn't make him look like a loser to lower the chances that he will reply..

Arbody
02-09-2013, 01:57 PM
Meanwhile..
Official confirmation, that the Russians large landing ships in January brought military equipment in Tartus for the Syrian army according previously awarded contract.
http://www.itar-tass.com/c11/644836.html (In Russian)
Good news !

ZapB
02-09-2013, 02:24 PM
It's not a secret that Russia gives Assad weapons.
A slight correction: Russia sells weapons to Assad

(And please lets not pretend that EU & USA doesn't equip dictatorial sh**holes / oppressive regimes with weapons too. I'm all for not equipping dictators & lunatics with weapons, but it seems even if you wont do it, someone else will. So "its all just business" in the end.)

Camera
02-09-2013, 02:40 PM
I heard something about the IAF airstrike, it hit AA weapons going to Hezbollah, correct?
As for the offensive, is it limited to Darayya, or Damascus proper?
Thank you Camera.

Yes it was a convoy of SAMs. The US said these were SA-17. SANA released pictures of 3 destroyed SA-8. Assad pretends the attack was against a recherche center even though sat pics show the attack aimed a convoy.
The offensive against Damascus is quite wide: the details are not very clear, but the rebels cut various routes and are not far from the city itself.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 02:40 PM
A slight correction: Russia sells weapons to Assad

(And please lets not pretend that EU & USA doesn't equip dictatorial sh**holes / oppressive regimes with weapons too. I'm all for not equipping dictators & lunatics with weapons, but it seems even if you wont do it, someone else will. So "its all just business" in the end.)

I didn't say that the West doesn't sell weapons to dictatorships..the thing is that Assad is involved in serious war.

Camera
02-09-2013, 02:42 PM
A slight correction: Russia sells weapons to Assad

(And please lets not pretend that EU & USA doesn't equip dictatorial sh**holes / oppressive regimes with weapons too. I'm all for not equipping dictators & lunatics with weapons, but it seems even if you wont do it, someone else will. So "its all just business" in the end.)

Not when they slaughter their people. Sales to Ghaddafi and to Bahrein were stopped as soon as they started to oppress the population.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 02:44 PM
Good news !What could it be?.About Hims news are great the unstoppable operation i told u about is revealing its great results.Gentlemen the Wadi Alsaeh or Alsaeh Valley district which cut the old city in two is under SAA control.Secondly the Kfr Aaea 8 km southwest Hims is under control .

geolocator
02-09-2013, 03:17 PM
Not when they slaughter their people. Sales to Ghaddafi and to Bahrein were stopped as soon as they started to oppress the population.
Russia supplies Syria mostly with air defense systems to protect it from an external aggression, like Israeli strikes. Non-opressed population in KSA sounds like a bad joke for me and the U.S. massive weapons supplies to attack other countries are not jokes too.

Camera
02-09-2013, 03:20 PM
Russia supplies Syria mostly with air defense systems to protect it from an external aggression, like Israeli strikes.

SAMs that find their way to Hezbollah?


Non-opressed population in KSA sounds like a bad joke for me

Never heard about an uprising in KSA.


and the U.S. massive weapons supplies to attack other countries are not jokes too.

???

Flamming_Python
02-09-2013, 03:23 PM
Not when they slaughter their people. Sales to Ghaddafi and to Bahrein were stopped as soon as they started to oppress the population.

What about selling weapons to countries that are defending their statehood against foreign Jihadists?
Good on Russia for standing by Syria.

Laker1
02-09-2013, 03:24 PM
Russia supplies Syria mostly with air defense systems to protect it from an external aggression, like Israeli strikes. Non-opressed population in KSA sounds like a bad joke for me and the U.S. massive weapons supplies to attack other countries are not jokes too.
But in Syria you have a serious war right now..

Surenas
02-09-2013, 03:24 PM
Not when they slaughter their people. Sales to Ghaddafi and to Bahrein were stopped as soon as they started to oppress the population.

Symbolic decisions. They knew from the beginning where those weapons would be used for. Its like giving a mentally handicapped man a gun with ammo, and then wonder and condemn if a accident occurred.

Camera
02-09-2013, 03:28 PM
Symbolic decisions. They knew from the beginning where those weapons would be used for. Its like giving a mentally handicapped man a gun with ammo, and then wonder and condemn if a accident occurred.

France has sold weapons to Ghadaffi and I was never proud of this. At least, we repaired our wrongs by destroying them when he started to kill his population. If Putin does the same with Assad I'd say 'Chapeau!"

themacedonian
02-09-2013, 03:30 PM
For a washiington post this is a sad article on possibility of more Israeli strikes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israeli-strike-in-syria-might-be-first-in-series/2013/02/09/2de6b1e2-721a-11e2-8b8d-e0b59a1b8e2a_story_1.html

Steak-Sauce
02-09-2013, 03:32 PM
For a washiington post this is a sad article on possibility of more Israeli strikes

Good. The more the better.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 03:33 PM
Camera I guess the point is it is hard to hold high moral ground in this conflict for anyone. All of this is not about morality it is a lot more about interests. I mean we should be fair in our assessments

Flamming_Python
02-09-2013, 03:44 PM
Nope, I think morality is an easy thing in this case.
Supporting Assad is doing the right thing.
Supporting the opposition to him is doing the wrong thing - they will lead the country into implosion.

Camera
02-09-2013, 03:46 PM
Camera I guess the point is it is hard to hold high moral ground in this conflict for anyone. All of this is not about morality it is a lot more about interests. I mean we should be fair in our assessments

A higher moral ground is what Obama and Hollande target: they don't provide weapons, they provide money for wheat, communication equipment and alike.
I should say I believe this policy is wrong and that Panetta was right. Had we provided weapons to the secular fractions of the FSA from the start, the Islamists wouldn't gain such influence.

Surenas
02-09-2013, 03:46 PM
Nope, I think morality is an easy thing in this case.
Supporting Assad is doing the right thing.
Supporting the opposition to him is doing the wrong thing - they will lead the country into implosion.

IMO there is no moral in this conflict. No right party, nor a battle between good and evil. Its all evil. The only party with whom I've compassion is the Syrian people.

prince99x
02-09-2013, 03:52 PM
A higher moral ground is what Obama and Hollande target: they don't provide weapons, they provide money for wheat, communication equipment and alike. I should say I believe this policy is wrong and that Panetta was right. Had we provided weapons to the secular fractions of the FSA from the start, the Islamists wouldn't gain such influence.Wheat !!!!!! . May the God help u.

Camera
02-09-2013, 03:54 PM
Wheat !!!!!! . May the God help u.

Thank you.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:03 PM
A higher moral ground is what Obama and Hollande target: they don't provide weapons, they provide money for wheat, communication equipment and alike.
I should say I believe this policy is wrong and that Panetta was right. Had we provided weapons to the secular fractions of the FSA from the start, the Islamists wouldn't gain such influence.

To be fair IMO they provide more than just equipment especially when it comes to communications. They facilitate the transfer of weapons to the theater from Estern European stocks or at the very least do nothing to stop it. Most importantly they provide the actual command and control for shock action along the full depth of Assad's defense. That is what makes rebels successes really possible IMO. No amount of deception can hide that simple fact. But this being a proxy conflict it is all fair.

The interests behind this war are based on cold blooded calculus and really are only vaguely associated with morality. No amount of very successful IW can really change this fact.

This is not to say Assad holds any moral ground whatsoever. No one does in this war.

Steak-Sauce
02-09-2013, 04:08 PM
And you can back up your claims about weapon transfers and C&C with apparently very "simple" facts, no?

Laker1
02-09-2013, 04:12 PM
To be fair IMO they provide more than just equipment especially when it comes to communications. They facilitate the transfer of weapons to the theater from Estern European stocks or at the very least do nothing to stop it. Most importantly they provide the actual command and control for shock action along the full depth of Assad's defense. That is what makes rebels successes really possible IMO. No amount of deception can hide that simple fact. But this being a proxy conflict it is all fair.

The interests behind this war are based on cold blooded calculus and really are only vaguely associated with morality. No amount of very successful IW can really change this fact.

This is not to say Assad holds any moral ground whatsoever. No one does in this war.

Every side has interest that the side that he supports will win..Assad will remain in power for more time than some think.

Laworkerbee
02-09-2013, 04:17 PM
A higher moral ground is what Obama and Hollande target: they don't provide weapons, they provide money for wheat, communication equipment and alike. I should say I believe this policy is wrong and that Panetta was right. Had we provided weapons to the secular fractions of the FSA from the start, the Islamists wouldn't gain such influence.

LuLz! morals and ethics are now rated like stock?

The United States provides satellite intelligence and targeting data and that in itself is more effective for the FSA than would be weapons. It hardly matters anyhow, it is not like the world isn't already the Gulfs arms bazaar.

The GCC has the weapons pipeline up already and you know damned well the Turks aren't going to let French and US intelligence agencies openly use their border as a logistics base for the FSA - I would have a hard time even believing that would be legal under NATO's charter but I digress once again.

I believe but can not prove that the American camp set up in Jordan tries to coordinate that intelligence with FSA actions - Why else would the FSA spend so much time ****ing around with Air Defense units? I find it hard to believe the FSA willing dies taking and attacking these positions for their non-existent FSA air force.


I also can't believe you people are even talking about morals in this thread. What?

This is about power and revenge and it's blinded everyone.

Al-Bundy
02-09-2013, 04:17 PM
A higher moral ground is what Obama and Hollande target: they don't provide weapons, they provide money for wheat, communication equipment and alike.
I should say I believe this policy is wrong and that Panetta was right. Had we provided weapons to the secular fractions of the FSA from the start, the Islamists wouldn't gain such influence.

No I don' think so. The Syrian Muslim brotherhood and salafis were and are always there behind the scenes whether you see them in the camera or not. Look at Tunisia, Libya, Egypt how Islamists gained a foothold even though the press was showing students, ordinary people striving for more rights and democracy...which now seems like total BS . I don't buy what is now being said "Islamist hijacked the Arab Spring". There were elections and they voted for Islamists which means that Arab leaders are as good as the people that put them in power. Bottom line i don't want to see the "West" giving any kind of support to al qaeda proxies and like minded that will turn the country to a "middle east version of Pakistan".

Not a fan of Obama but he took a right decision on this even though i do not know/read the exact reasons.

Camera
02-09-2013, 04:21 PM
To be fair IMO they provide more than just equipment especially when it comes to communications. They facilitate the transfer of weapons to the theater from Estern European stocks or at the very least do nothing to stop it.

These are assumptions. Had they provided the FSA with sophisticated western weapons - ATGM, MANPADS, night vision equipment… - the situation on the ground would have been different after two years of fight. But of course, such weapons should have been delivered to defectors of the SAA that are not Islamists.


Most importantly they provide the actual command and control for shock action along the full depth of Assad's defense. That is what makes rebels successes really possible IMO. No amount of deception can hide that simple fact. But this being a proxy conflict it is all fair.

They may provide some intelligence, but I don't think it is substantial. The rebels have plenty of people on the ground, within the population and probably within the SAA who acknowledge them about the plans, the deployments and movements of the military units. Don't forget that tens of generals have defected. They have an extensive knowledge of the SAA.


The interests behind this war are based on cold blooded calculus and really are only vaguely associated with morality. No amount of very successful IW can really change this fact.

This is not to say Assad holds any moral ground whatsoever. No one does in this war.

I agree with you that interests come first, but as you can see Obama, sided by the other western leaders, is attached to a moral stance of not providing weapons. On the other hand, the US provided hundreds of millions of USD to humanitarian causes.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:28 PM
And you can back up your claims about weapon transfers and C&C with apparently very "simple" facts, no?

I can't back up shiz! all my mumbling is purely a product of my fantasy :) but I clearly see concepts of operational warfare guiding indigenous forces applied in this conflict. Did Sunni Muslims discover all this on the go? Do they have sensors and sats for tracking enemy movement? Maybe. Maybe in some parallel universe most rebel supporters seem to live in. No offense

Camera
02-09-2013, 04:31 PM
LuLz! morals and ethics are now rated like stock?

The United States provides satellite intelligence and targeting data and that in itself is more effective for the FSA than would be weapons. It hardly matters anyhow, it is not like the world isn't already the Gulfs arms bazaar.

The FSA has ears and eyes everywhere in Syria. They could attempt to the highest officials lives inside their meeting rooms. I doubt they need sat pictures to know what are Assad's tactical moves.


The GCC has the weapons pipeline up already and you know damned well the Turks aren't going to let French and US intelligence agencies openly use their border as a logistics base for the FSA - I would have a hard time even believing that would be legal under NATO's charter but I digress once again.

This is the mistake.


I believe but can not prove that the American camp set up in Jordan tries to coordinate that intelligence with FSA actions - Why else would the FSA spend so much time ****ing around with Air Defense units? I find it hard to believe the FSA willing dies taking and attacking these positions for their non-existent FSA air force.

You know very well that these antiquated AD units could not challenge NATO.

Steak-Sauce
02-09-2013, 04:32 PM
No offense either, but you do know that quite a few of the rebels are defected soldiers? I.e. more or less trained men who are expected to know one or two things about warfare? Soldiers who may have even served in the regular army units they are now fighting against? Soldiers who may have lived and worked in the barracks they are now shelling?

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:32 PM
Again folks you don't necessarily need all the fancy tactical toys to win wars. You just need integrated command that knows wtf it is doing with all the surveillance and reconnaissance that comes with it. This is well out of reach of FSA or Nusra or whatever

Camera
02-09-2013, 04:34 PM
No I don' think so. The Syrian Muslim brotherhood and salafis were and are always there behind the scenes whether you see them in the camera or not. Look at Tunisia, Libya, Egypt how Islamists gained a foothold even though the press was showing students, ordinary people striving for more rights and democracy...which now seems like total BS . I don't buy what is now being said "Islamist hijacked the Arab Spring". There were elections and they voted for Islamists which means that Arab leaders are as good as the people that put them in power. Bottom line i don't want to see the "West" giving any kind of support to al qaeda proxies and like minded that will turn the country to a "middle east version of Pakistan".

Not a fan of Obama but he took a right decision on this even though i do not know/read the exact reasons.

There were Islamists in Syria too. But it turned to a civil war when soldiers and officers started to defect the SAA. These people were not Islamists. These are the people that should have been backed IMO.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:35 PM
No offense either, but you do know that quite a few of the rebels are defected soldiers? I.e. more or less trained men who are expected to know one or two things about warfare?

Yes funny thing about that is they show total ineptitude on SAA side and then magically become masters of operational warfare? I have seen some sources that mention how bakers that have been fighting with FSA are sometimes more capable of command and action than the supposedly knowledgeable defectors .

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:35 PM
There were Islamists in Syria too. But it turned to a civil war when soldiers and officers started to defect the SAA. These people were not Islamists. These are the people that should have been backed IMO.

They should have. Maybe they are the only ones with any moral authority in this. Unfortunately the use of Islamist tactical talent put a dent in it

Steak-Sauce
02-09-2013, 04:36 PM
I assume that these sources you're talking about are the same that mention how "they" provide weapons, communications and material to the rebels.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:37 PM
I assume that these sources you're talking about are the same that mention how "they" provide weapons, communications and material to the rebels.

That was NYT article. I find it again I will share. Now some of them could be good but they would still lack all the tools and systems to make their C2 effective and encompassing

Laker1
02-09-2013, 04:39 PM
They should have. Maybe they are the only ones with any moral authority in this. Unfortunately the use of Islamist tactical talent put a dent in it

After they will oust Assad,the "rebels" will fight between themselves(Jihadists against the secularists).

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:40 PM
After they will oust Assad,the "rebels" will fight between themselves(Jihadists against the secularists).

Seems like it. Israelis could be right. Maybe this is a gift for them. Get rid of Assad Hezz Iran axis and then exploit internal jihadist rivalries to eliminate or subdue that threat as well. This could work if Jordan and Egypt hold steady and those Islamist rivalries are contained within Syria. Such development certainly has potential

Camera
02-09-2013, 04:43 PM
They should have. Maybe they are the only ones with any moral authority in this.

IMO, yes. And those who follow this thread from the start know this is what I was advocating and they may remember I warned more than once that if we do not back these guys, the Islamists - backed by the Islamic states - will become the powerful component of the opposition.


Unfortunately the use of Islamist tactical talent put a dent in it

It was pre-visible.
The irony is that Assad, who backed so many fanatic Islamists, is now tasting his own bitter medicine.

Al-Bundy
02-09-2013, 04:44 PM
There were Islamists in Syria too. But it turned to a civil war when soldiers and officers started to defect the SAA. These people were not Islamists. These are the people that should have been backed IMO.

Did you even read my post? In Tunisia, Egypt , Libya the people in the cameras during the "Arab Spring" were also not Islamist but look now who is in charge. From the first videos of FSA , you could see the eerie resemblance with other videos coming form other jihadi fronts.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:45 PM
It was pre-visible.
The irony is that Assad, who backed so many fanatic Islamists, is now tasting his own bitter medicine.

Yes this is full of irony.

Steak-Sauce
02-09-2013, 04:48 PM
[...] but they would still lack all the tools and systems to make their C2 effective and encompassing

How do you know, for crying out loud. You don't know anything about their capabilities and assume things. Apparently that is the preferred way of thinking in your parallel universe, eh?

CaptMorgan, is that you? Thought you've choked on that hat after the J-20 disaster.

Arbody
02-09-2013, 04:48 PM
The irony is that Assad, who backed so many fanatic Islamists, is now tasting his own bitter medicine.
Next in the line will be "West" with support for terrorism.

Al-Bundy
02-09-2013, 04:51 PM
The irony is that Assad, who backed so many fanatic Islamists, is now tasting his own bitter medicine.

He had his reasons for doing that and not because of love for salafis. IMO he was sending his "local headaches" Syrian wahabis to get killed elsewhere instead of causing trouble at home. Also by supporting such groups he was getting some kind of legitimacy in the eyes of the other Arab countries who disliked him for being a shia in charge of a majority sunni country. He bought his time for as long as he could with this groups.

Camera
02-09-2013, 04:51 PM
Did you even read my post? In Tunisia, Egypt , Libya the people in the cameras during the "Arab Spring" were also not Islamist but look now who is in charge.

Well, the Islamists are in charge in Tunisia and Egypt, but it turns difficult to be for them to manage a state and their days in power may be counted.


From the first videos of FSA , you could see the eerie resemblance with other videos coming form other jihadi fronts.

I think the defectors that formed the FSA did not use vids on YouTube, because they were unfamiliar with this way of communications. The first vids appeared later, when Islamists started to operate in Syria and they started to communicate the same way they have done elsewhere.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:52 PM
How do you know, for crying out loud. You don't know anything about their capabilities and assume things. Apparently that is the preferred way of thinking in your parallel universe, eh?


I will stick with my assumptions and parallel universe. You can simply ignore me

Laker1
02-09-2013, 04:53 PM
Seems like it. Israelis could be right. Maybe this is a gift for them. Get rid of Assad Hezz Iran axis and then exploit internal jihadist rivalries to eliminate or subdue that threat as well. This could work if Jordan and Egypt hold steady and those rivalries are contained within Syria. Such development certainly has potential

What do you mean that those rivalries are conatined within Syria?..anyway,the Israeli Minister of Defense gave Assad two weeks to remain in power in the begging of the war..it seems that he can be for years in power as long as the West doesn't get involved militarily.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 04:55 PM
anyway,the Israeli Minister of Defense gave Assad two weeks to remain in power in the begging of the war..it seems that he can be for years in power as long as the West doesn't get involved militarily.

Assad still being alive has to do with matching proxy moves. Keeping him alive is a matter of prestige for some

In any case the hogwash in this conflict is strong on both sides to be fair. Everyone wants to stay 'white and furry'

bionic
02-09-2013, 04:59 PM
How do you know, for crying out loud. You don't know anything about their capabilities and assume things. Apparently that is the preferred way of thinking in your parallel universe, eh?

CaptMorgan, is that you? Thought you've choked on that hat after the J-20 disaster.
Sure it is CaptMorgan i noticed this after the first 20 posts he did.:lol:

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 05:00 PM
Sure it is CaptMorgan i noticed this after the first 20 posts he did.:lol:

You are just obsessed with ghosts and catching them. I guess when arguments run out you just label someone as an MP.net legend or myth rather

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 05:03 PM
What do you mean that those rivalries are conatined within Syria?..

Well like you said - Assad goes then FSA and Islamists duke it out. As long as that is contained to Syrian borders it should not be much of an issue

Laker1
02-09-2013, 05:13 PM
Assad still being alive has to do with matching proxy moves. Keeping him alive is a matter of prestige for some

In any case the hogwash in this conflict is strong on both sides to be fair. Everyone wants to stay 'white and furry'

Matching moves? It seems that no side can beat the other side..

Camera
02-09-2013, 05:22 PM
Lebanese army accuses Israel of 17-hour overflightsReport that Israel sent ‘spy’ drones to South Lebanon twice follows repeated claims about IAF jets conducting mock sorties
By TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF (http://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/times-of-israel-staff/) February 9, 2013, 2:32 pm

http://www.timesofisrael.com/lebanese-army-accuses-israel-of-17-hour-overflights/

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 05:24 PM
I assume that these sources you're talking about are the same that mention how "they" provide weapons, communications and material to the rebels.

Btw


The CIA has been working with the Syrian opposition for several weeks under a non-lethal directive that allows the United States to evaluate groups and assist them with command and control. Scores of Israeli intelligence officers are also operating along Syria’s border, though they are keeping a low profile.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-syria-approaches-the-tipping-point/2012/07/18/gJQAFoCvtW_story.html



According to recent reports, the Al Qaeda-connected al-Nusra militia has fielded as many as 10,000 fighters, many of them foreign Islamists who have been funneled into Syria. The group is said to be the best-armed element waging the war for regime change and is credited with recently overrunning two Syrian military bases.Much of the weaponry going to the group has reportedly been sent in by the US-backed monarchy in Qatar. The CIA set up a command-and-control headquarters in southern Turkey earlier this year to coordinate the distribution of these arms and other aid going to the “rebels.”


http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-tightens-military-noose-around-syria/5314614?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=us-tightens-military-noose-around-syria

Laker1
02-09-2013, 05:25 PM
Lebanese army accuses Israel of 17-hour overflights

Report that Israel sent ‘spy’ drones to South Lebanon twice follows repeated claims about IAF jets conducting mock sorties


By TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF (http://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/times-of-israel-staff/) February 9, 2013, 2:32 pm

http://www.timesofisrael.com/lebanese-army-accuses-israel-of-17-hour-overflights/

With the weapons that Hezbollah gets,it must be 24/7 overflights.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 05:26 PM
Lebanese army accuses Israel of 17-hour overflights

Report that Israel sent ‘spy’ drones to South Lebanon twice follows repeated claims about IAF jets conducting mock sorties


By TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF (http://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/times-of-israel-staff/) February 9, 2013, 2:32 pm

http://www.timesofisrael.com/lebanese-army-accuses-israel-of-17-hour-overflights/

So more strikes in the pipeline I guess

Camera
02-09-2013, 05:30 PM
Btw



http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-syria-approaches-the-tipping-point/2012/07/18/gJQAFoCvtW_story.html

It's about the CW.

Camera
02-09-2013, 05:31 PM
So more strikes in the pipeline I guess

Apparently yes, if there are new attempts to transfer weaponry to Lebanon.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 05:38 PM
It's about the CW.

Guys we are all adults here. Many of you served. We can pretend not to see through the thick IW that this wr is accompanied with but some things should be clear. Most of rebel successes would not be possible without assistance given how split up, incompetent and uncoordinated they were just some months ago. IMO CW is just a convenient cover for training and c2 type coordination even if the threat is real. Given the covert nature of such an effort I would not expect press releases advertising such activity all over media. You don't need to be a conspiracy theorist or Clancy fan to understand these things are very much real and not just a product of imagination . The effective C2 can be felt and observed and its source is a hardly a conspiracy or a mystery. It is very real and specializes in just such an affair

Camera
02-09-2013, 05:47 PM
Guys we are all adults here. Many of you served. We can pretend not to see through the thick IW that this wr is accompanied with but some things should be clear. Most of rebel successes would not be possible without assistance given how split up and incompetent they were just some months ago. CW is a convenient cover for training and c2 type coordination even if the threat is real

On C2 I saw them using rudimentary means: satellite phones.
Now regarding satellite pictures, it's possible that they get assistance but the benefit of such intelligence is IMO very limited, because the rebels do not operate like a conventional army with aviation, mechanized divisions… They fight from street to street, from one district to the other. Their own intelligence, based on Humint sources who infiltrate the population, the SAA and the government's institutions should be largely sufficient.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 05:50 PM
On C2 I saw them using rudimentary means: satellite phones.
Now regarding satellite pictures, it's possible that they get assistance but the benefit of such intelligence is IMO very limited, because the rebels do not operate like a conventional army with aviation, mechanized divisions… They fight from street to street, from one district to the other. Their own intelligence, based on Humint sources who infiltrate the population, the SAA and the government's institutions are largely sufficient.

Role of c2 is not to provide intel. It is to process intel, issue commands and exercise control. The intel rebels gather needs to be correlated and filtered as well. Hardly any worthy analysts among FSA capable of such a thing. However humint is just a small part of it. SIGINT and MASINT are capable of much more. With properly placed sensors you can track not only possible CW use but military movement as well. Not to mention satellites and other means of surveillance

Satellite phones is all you need to receive simple objectives and target designations. The rest is up to maneuvering tactical element on the ground.

Also you need real time feeds and processing to be able to react to changes in situation and enemy disposition in a timely fashion. Only way that is possible is way out of scope of rebel capability

Camera
02-09-2013, 05:51 PM
Role of c2 is not to provide intel. It is to process intel and give commands and exercise vcontrol. The intel rebels gather needs to be correlated and filtered as well. Hardly any worthy analysts among FSA capable of such a thing. However humint is just a small part of it. SIGINT and MASINT are capable of much more. With properly placed sensors you can track not only CW us but military movement as well


I did not say the contrary. All I saw in C2 are sat phones that are used for communications.



You edited you post, so I edit mine.
These guys have probably eyes and ears everywhere. They proved to be able to infiltrate the highest echelons of the SAA. IMO they are acknowledged of major moves days before they occur and before any sensor can track.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 06:02 PM
I did not say the contrary. All I saw in C2 are sat phones that are used for communications.

You edited you post, so I edit mine.
These guys have probably eyes and ears everywhere. They proved to be able to infiltrate the highest echelons of the SAA. IMO they are acknowledged of major moves days before they occur and before any sensor can track.

Yes true but still the rate of successes indicates application of shock assault action targeting lines of support and communication all along the full depth of SAA defense thus overwhelming command and control, paralyzing initiative and affecting troops morale. Maybe Allah is on FSA side but I gather there is a lot more to it

Camera
02-09-2013, 06:18 PM
Yes true but still the rate of successes indicates application of shock assault action targeting lines of support and communication all along the full depth of SAA defense thus overwhelming command and control, paralyzing initiative and affecting troops morale. Maybe Allah is on FSA side but I gather there is a lot more to it

They know the SAA very well from having served in it for decades; they still have friends and accomplices inside the army who inform them; they have spotters outside the major camps of the SAA, on the roads and on the zones of troops concentration, as we have seen in many vids, the population spots for them.
I can not dismiss the assumption they are assisted from the outside; they probably are. But what such assistance could fundamentally change for this rebel army that has such poor mobility and is limited to localized operations?

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 06:27 PM
They know the SAA very well from having served in it for decades; they still have friends and accomplices inside the army who inform them; they have spotters outside the major camps of the SAA, on the roads and on the zones of troops concentration, as we have seen in many vids, the population spots for them.
I can not dismiss the assumption they are assisted from the outside; they probably are. But what such assistance could fundamentally change for this rebel army that has such poor mobility and is limited to localized operations?

True. I guess they sure have a role in intel gathering where sensor coverage may prove insufficient.

If anything IMO the rebels are an equivalent of highly mobile light infantry in this conflict. Their advantages are in numbers, mobility and ability to overwhelm defenses through concentrated effort and multiple simultaneous assaults sneaking deep into SAA territory. Coordination is key

gresh
02-09-2013, 06:38 PM
True. I guess they sure have a role in intel gathering where sensor coverage may prove insufficient.

If anything IMO the rebels are an equivalent of highly mobile light infantry in this conflict. Their advantages are in numbers, mobility and ability to overwhelm defenses through concentrated effort and multiple simultaneous assaults sneaking deep into SAA territory. Coordination is key
One thing to consider is that the rebels can use their "non-lethal" funds for buying up to date imagery from companies like Digital Globe. I really don't think that actual governments are providing them military-grade imagery when they can just have civilian companies do it for them. I know that some groups of Syrian expat's raise money for that kind of stuff to help their operations.

Also, like Camera said, they have spotters everywhere. Sometimes they post footage of them spying on a base months before they attack it. Just look at Taftanaz.

Camera
02-09-2013, 06:44 PM
True. I guess they sure have a role in intel gathering where sensor coverage may prove insufficient.

When a convoy leaves one Syrian city and takes the highway towards another, the spotter that passes a phone call to inform about its departure gives sufficient time to the squads along the road to ambush it with IEDs or to get ready to activate the IEDs that might have been planted long before. They control the country side… What sophisticated sensors could offer more?


If anything IMO the rebels are an equivalent of highly mobile light infantry in this conflict. Their advantages are in numbers, mobility and ability to overwhelm defenses through concentrated effort and multiple simultaneous assaults sneaking deep into SAA territory. Coordination is key

Their mobility is localized, because they are not mechanized.
In some places the attacks are not overwhelming, but long sieges by brigades that operate independently. In others, they manifest the ability to coordinate a concentrated attack like in Damascus where several brigades are involved. Their commanders have military experience, they had high ranks in the SAA.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 07:11 PM
When a convoy leaves one Syrian city and takes the highway towards another, the spotter that passes a phone call to inform about its departure gives sufficient time to the squads along the road to ambush it with IEDs or to get ready to activate the IEDs that might have been planted long before. They control the country side… What sophisticated sensors could offer more?

Their mobility is localized, because they are not mechanized.
In some places the attacks are not overwhelming, but long sieges by brigades that operate independently. In others, they manifest the ability to coordinate a concentrated attack like in Damascus where several brigades are involved. Their commanders have military experience, they had high ranks in the SAA.

IMO your views on this are very simplistic when it comes to sensor coverage and its advantages over utilizing spotters. Might wanna look into this esp page 234

http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Syria-Military-Prospects-International/dp/0313355207/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360454969&sr=1-1&keywords=0313355207

While I agree with some of your assessment your conclusions run counter to a whole stream of reports exposing the FSA as incapable of coordination among the various split groups and interests. Bottom line is your insistence of rebels being capable of conducting effective C2 that could hurt the SAA reeks of navet or even a conscious effort to hide the truth. In any case we have all expressed our opinions and can agree to disagree.

Btw the rebels have technicals . That's as mechanized as they need to be.

Camera
02-09-2013, 07:47 PM
IMO your views on this are very simplistic when it comes to sensor coverage and its advantages over utilizing spotters. Might wanna look into this esp page 234

http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Syria-Military-Prospects-International/dp/0313355207/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360454969&sr=1-1&keywords=0313355207


We warfare that is conducted there is not more sophisticated than that.


While I agree with some of your assessment your conclusions run counter to a whole stream of reports exposing the FSA as incapable of coordination among the various split groups and interests.

Both cases should exist. It is not an homogenous force.


Bottom line is your insistence of rebels being capable of conducting effective C2 that could hurt the SAA reeks of navet or even a conscious effort to hide the truth. In any case we have all expressed our opinions and can agree to disagree.

I really don't see an American HQ commanding and controlling herds shouting 'Allahu Akhbar'. It can not work. They have their way to function and the cultural gaps are probably impossible to bridge.


Btw the rebels have technicals . That's as mechanized as they need to be.

These are just fire support weapons. The degree of mobility of the force is the one of the foot soldier.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 07:57 PM
I really don't see an American HQ commanding and controlling herds shouting 'Allahu Akhbar'. It can not work. They have their way to function and the cultural gaps are probably impossible to bridge.


Worked in Afghanistan back in the 80s, no? If you discount the side effects it produced of course

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:03 PM
Worked in Afghanistan back in the 80s for the CIA no?

To my knowledge, C2 was Pakistani. But here the situation is different. Unlike Afghanistan where the Russians faced tribes and units of Mujahidin who volunteered for Jihad, here most FSA fighters are led by professional militaries that are SAA defectors.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 08:07 PM
To my knowledge, C2 was Pakistani.

Pakistani really? Hmm. Must be just like Vietcong c2 was Vietnamese


But here the situation is different. Unlike Afghanistan where the Russians faced tribes and units of Mujahidin who volunteered for Jihad, here most FSA fighters are led by professional militaries that are SAA defectors.

Right but it is jihadists doing all the winning as always. Not FSA

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:10 PM
Pakistani really? Hmm. Must be just like Vietcong c2 was Vietnamese

As kong as I know, the CIA did not command and control the Mujahidin. It provided weapons and even those were distributed by the Pakistanis.
But there are American posters on the forum that could tell us better.


Right but it is jihadists doing all the winning as always. Not FSA

Their units may excel in the battles, they may have more funds and weapons, but they are not numerous enough. The command of the FSA is in the hands of the SAA defectors that command larger formations.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 08:14 PM
As kong as I know, the CIA did not command and control the Mujahidin. It provided weapons and even those were distributed by the Pakistanis.
But there are American posters on the forum that could tell us better.

Here we go


While the actual document has not been declassified, National Security Decision Directive 166 of 27 March 1985, "US Policy, Programs and Strategy in Afghanistan" defined a US policy of using established the US goal of driving Soviet forces from Afghanistan "by all means available"...

Initially, this involved close cooperation with Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence to assist mujahideen groups and in planning operations inside Afghanistan. This cooperation was already in place in 1984, prior to NSDD-166. Indeed, it was evident to residents in Islamabad and Peshawar in the 1980s that large numbers of Americans were present

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Afghanistan

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 08:17 PM
Their units may excel in the battles, they may have more funds and weapons, but they are not numerous enough. The command of the FSA is in the hands of the SAA defectors that command larger formations.

~10,000 or more serving as force multipliers ? That' not numerous?

btw



“The purported F.S.A. leaders in Turkey have never exercised anything like full command and control over the rebellion,” said Michael Wahid Hanna, an analyst at The Century Foundation. “They have seen their role diminish as the center of gravity continues to shift to leaders and fighters inside Syria.”

An opposition fighter in Homs echoed that sentiment, saying that if Colonel Assad had returned to Syria sooner, “his situation would be better.” The fighter said the move would add to Colonel Assad’s “importance and value” as one of the first high-ranking officers to defect from Syria’s army — but his praise carried a whiff of disappointment.

“I actually fought on the ground more than him,” the fighter said, “and this is the case for most officers who remained inside Syria.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/world/middleeast/rebels-move-command-from-turkey-to-syria.html?_r=0

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:19 PM
You have on both sides men that were formed in the same manner within the SAA. If SAA commanders are capable to C2 without a Russian adviser to tell them what they should do, the FSA commanders should be able to do the same.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 08:23 PM
You have on both sides men that were formed in the same manner within the SAA. If SAA commanders are capable to C2 without a Russian adviser to tell them what they should do, the FSA commanders should be able to do the same.

IMO SAA is utterly incapable of effective C2 without foreign advisers. Proxy aspect of this war mean anything to you? Foreign 'advice' is the reason Assad is still breathing

Camera
02-09-2013, 08:28 PM
IMO SAA is incapable of effective C2 without foreign advisers. Proxy aspect of this war mean anything to you?

Look, I don't know. The rebels are a collection of brigades and fractions of all kind. There are units that coordinate their offensive and this seems to be the case in the Damascus area at the moment. It was completely the contrary in the Aleppo area not long ago.
I don't believe anyone could C2 them, except their own leaders that do it in their way.

AgentKoba37
02-09-2013, 08:30 PM
Look, I don't know. The rebels are a collection of brigades and fractions of all kind. There are units that coordinate their offensive and this seems to be the case in the Damascus area at the moment. It was completely the contrary in the Aleppo area not long ago.
I don't believe anyone could C2 except their own leaders that do it in their way.

Hopefully time will tell but we may never know the true story

themacedonian
02-09-2013, 10:04 PM
One thing to consider is that the rebels can use their "non-lethal" funds for buying up to date imagery from companies like Digital Globe. I really don't think that actual governments are providing them military-grade imagery when they can just have civilian companies do it for them. I know that some groups of Syrian expat's raise money for that kind of stuff to help their operations.

Also, like Camera said, they have spotters everywhere. Sometimes they post footage of them spying on a base months before they attack it. Just look at Taftanaz.

What do you think those satellites phones are used for? The rebels are getting real time info on strength of bases and isolated units and traffic passing in between bases.

Once they get an estimate of base strength of regiment or battalion the rebels assemble larger force, block incoming roads, assault base.

At the same time they get advance notice on reinforcements. Big brother is helping more than you think.

yves
02-10-2013, 01:42 AM
http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/syrias-druze-minority-is-shifting-its-support-to-the-opposition/2013/02/07/9e3f52c6-6d5d-11e2-ada0-5ca5fa7ebe79_story.html
Syria’s Druze minority is shifting its support to the opposition
BEIRUT — Members of Syria’s Druze community, a small but significant religious minority, are joining the opposition in bigger numbers, ramping up pressure on the beleaguered government of President Bashar al-Assad, according to opposition activists and rebel military commanders.


As the Syrian conflict has devolved into a bloody sectarian war, with many Sunni Muslims backing the opposition, some of the country’s minorities, including the Druze and Christians, have largely sat on the sidelines.

geolocator
02-10-2013, 02:08 AM
according to opposition activists and rebel military commanders.
How it is in reality?

yves
02-10-2013, 02:20 AM
How it is in reality?
Walid joumblat support the revolution and he has the support of the majority of the druze

ImpNavigator
02-10-2013, 03:14 AM
Walid joumblat support the revolution and he has the support of the majority of the druze

In Lebanon..

yves
02-10-2013, 03:19 AM
In Lebanon..
The druze community is united under the leadership of the jumblat family since the 19 century when his grandmother started doing politics and this leadership dates back to the times when lebanon and syria did not exist even on paper his family fought for druze rights everywhere in the ME so definitly he is very influent in the druze community (maybe not alot in Israel)

ImpNavigator
02-10-2013, 03:24 AM
Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki said he believes the fall of the Syrian regime is unlikely and stressed that embattled President Bashar al-Assad is “smarter” than Saddam Hussein.

In an interview in Cairo with the Saudi-owned, London-based Asharq al-Awsat, Maliki said: “I know Syria very well,” adding that Assad’s Alawite supporters are becoming increasingly courageous as they grow more desperate.

“The Alawites will fight with other minorities against militants like Sunni extremists,” he said. “That is why they are fighting with their men and women in order to survive,” added the Shiite Maliki, himself facing a Sunni uprising against his rule in several provinces across Iraq.

Maliki said Assad is currently fighting a sectarian war in Syria and unlike Saddam, the Syrian president “has a much deeper political vision.”

Maliki said U.S. Vice President Joe Biden and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had told him in Washington that Assad was bound to fall “within two months.”

“I told them that this wouldn’t even happen in years,” Maliki said.
Meanwhile, Maliki accused Turkey of attempting to control Syria, Iraq and other regional powers, including Egypt.

“In Iraq, Turkey depends on the sectarian factor and extremists, and opposition figures usually meet in Ankara,” he said.
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2013/02/09/265360.html

yves
02-10-2013, 04:07 AM
لجان التنسيق المحلية في سوريا=local coordination commitees


الرقة : الطبقة : الجيش الحر يحرر كتيبة المدفعية المتمركزة بجانب مبنى الإذاعة والتلفزيون بالكامل ويتمكن من السيطرة على كافة الأسلحة المتواجدة من مدافع ورشاشات ثقيلة
Raqqah: Tabqa: The FSA liberates the Artillery Battalion that is stationed next to the Radio and Television building and were successfully able to seize all existing cannons and heavy machine guns
http://m.facebook.com/LCCSy?id=217848338242310&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FLCCSy&_rdr#!/photo.php?fbid=607706875923119&id=217848338242310&set=a.221856221174855.74557.217848338242310&refid=17

Camera
02-10-2013, 04:56 AM
The druze community is united under the leadership of the jumblat family since the 19 century when his grandmother started doing politics and this leadership dates back to the times when lebanon and syria did not exist even on paper his family fought for druze rights everywhere in the ME so definitly he is very influent in the druze community (maybe not alot in Israel)

This is another sign of the weakening of Assad. The Druzes have a traditional policy (that preserves their communities) to be loyal to the regime in the countries they live. They would not have openly joined the rebels if Assad had any chance to win.

prince99x
02-10-2013, 05:00 AM
Oh, OK. So what you are saying is that Russia failed to prevent the conflicts from happening or at least getting at the heart of the beast first before the **** hit the fan where they had no choice but to go in (and subsiquently enough, get more people killed)? If so, then I see what you are saying and I agree. The Russian government can be very spineless it seems.
This is another sign of the weakening of Assad. The Druzes have a traditional policy (that preserves their communities) to be loyal to the regime in the countries they live. They would not have openly joined the rebels if Assad had any chance to win.No chance at all right !!!!!.However how can u trust those sources.The Druz community in Syria is different.

Camera
02-10-2013, 05:00 AM
Pakistani really? Hmm. Must be just like Vietcong c2 was Vietnamese

Right but it is jihadists doing all the winning as always. Not FSA

Another reason to believe the Americans are not in charge of the c2, especially not for the Islamists, is the fact that al-Nusra was listed as terror group; nothing similar to Afghanistan where the US administration referred to the Mujahidins as freedom fighters.

Camera
02-10-2013, 05:05 AM
No chance at all right !!!!!.However how can u trust those sources.The Druz community in Syria is different.

The Washington Post is a reliable newspaper.
The loyalty of the Druzes to Assad was strong, even among the majority of the Druzes of the Golan after 45 years of Israeli occupation.

AgentKoba37
02-10-2013, 05:53 AM
The Israeli Army has warned current general calm along the borders with Syria "is deceptive" and internal escalating violence in the neighboring country might eventually spill over to the region and threaten Israel's security This calmness might rapidly change, due to the current civil war the country is witnessing, while it has always been tranquil during Bashar Al-Assad's ruling, the Yediot Ahronot daily quoted military sources as saying on Sunday.The sources indicated that despite (the Israeli) air strike on a Syrian Army convoy on Syrian territories some 10 ago, which foreign media sources affirmed was carried out by the Israeli Air Force, the Israel-Syria border is actually the quietest among the Jewish state's borders. But IDF (Israel Defence Forces) officers fear that may soon change, Yediot Ahronot quoted the same sources as saying.
The border stretches some 80 kilometers from Mount Hermon in the north to the border junction with Jordan in the south.
The frontier lush region was recently disturbed by echoes of the bloody civil war ripping through Syria, and while the sounds of war have somewhat "faded in the area," the IDF knows that the calm will not last for much longer, the newspaper said.
"Growing unrest in Damascus and President Bashar Assad's continuous attempts to blame the West in general and Israel in particular for the violence plaguing the country, has translated into growing agitation; and the volatile climate means one thing - a terror attack against Israeli targets in the area is only a matter of time," the daily added.
The immediate area adjacent to the Syrian side of the border is home to villages that have become "brimming with terror activity over the past two years," it said.
Assad's loose grip on the area has made it safe for terror operatives to seek refuge there; and thousands of them from Islamic and Jihad-affiliated groups are believed to be on the ground, it said. (end) mzt.lb KUNA 101310 Feb 13NNNN

http://www.kuna.net.kw/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=2292069&language=en

So seems like islamist terror spillover is also quite a concern

themacedonian
02-10-2013, 06:07 AM
http://www.kuna.net.kw/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=2292069&language=en

So seems like islamist terror spillover is also quite a concern

Israel: Fighting along the border is a problem
Israel: Lack of fighting along the border is a problem.
Israel: Calm along the border is an indication of a potential problem.

Camera
02-10-2013, 06:11 AM
Israel: Fighting along the border is a problem
Israel: Lack of fighting along the border is a problem.
Israel: Calm along the border is an indication of a potential problem.

With such neighbors all you can have are problems.

kalerab
02-10-2013, 08:47 AM
Christian hamlet alls prey to Syrian looters


AFP - The bibles lie untouched on the carved wooden stands but the chandeliers have been dumped upside down on the altar; the Christian village of Al-Yakubiye may have escaped the full ravages of Syria's civil war but it could not avoid the plundering of the fighters.

Along the main road of this agricultural village in Syria's northwestern province of Idlib, an old cemetery with stone crosses adjoins an Apostolic Orthodox Armenian church whose door lies open, buffeted by the winds.

Those who swept through here seized anything of value, plundering even the chancel and the sacristy. Under a portrait of a benevolent Virgin Mary, a thief stole the chalice from the tabernacle.

Al-Yakubiye, nestled in a lush mountain overlooking the Orontes valley, fell to the rebels two weeks ago after fighting that lasted for several days.

The bulk of the clashes were around a fortified army post at the entrance to the village, until the troops pulled out hastily and headed to Jisr al-Shugur, further south.

President Bashar al-Assad's soldiers spared the village, which boasts one Catholic and two Armenian churches, from street battles that would have inevitably turned it into ruins.

Of a population of around 600 during the winter, only a few men, a handful of elderly and a Catholic priest, stayed back during the fighting.



http://www.france24.com/en/20130209-christian-hamlet-alls-prey-syrian-looters

Hisroyalhighness
02-10-2013, 09:31 AM
Russian Returns Home after 54 Days in Captivity in Syria (http://en.rian.ru/russia/20130210/179323105.html)
KEMEROVO, February 10 (RIA Novosti) - A Russian man, who was kidnapped in Syria last December and released earlier this week, returned home on Sunday, a district administration official told RIA Novosti.

Viktor Gorelov, 66, arrived to Moscow from the Lebanese capital of Beirut on Saturday. He arrived to his home city of Novokuznetsk in Siberia on Sunday morning after being held by Syrian rebels for 54 days.

Gorelov was abducted (http://en.rian.ru/russia/20121217/178225396.html) in Syria on December 17, along Abdessattar Khassun, who has double Russian-Syrian citizenship, and Italian national Mario Belluomo. The three men were taken hostage on December 12 by Syrian rebels while on their way from Homs to Tartus, the home of a Russian naval base.

Russian Foreign Ministry said (http://en.rian.ru/russia/20130204/179219127.html) on Monday that the three hostages were released in exchange for captured rebel fighters.

AgentKoba37
02-10-2013, 09:44 AM
Jihadi warriors are fuelling the violent rebellion in Syria. Some fear their successes are reviving wider regional ambitions


On Tuesday evening, seven days after Israel reportedly struck a biological weapons development center in Damascus, Islamist fighters in Syria released another of their videos.

No longer standing on the horizontal tips of newly acquired Scud missiles, as they were seen doing last month, a group of four Jabhat al-Nusra fighters, their faces cloaked by kaffiyas, read from a statement. “We will put our hands on those weapons,” the man in the middle shouted of Assad’s biological and chemical ****nal. “We will attack and take over those sites and then use them against the Zionists, from Syrian territory, until we reach Jerusalem.”


http://www.timesofisrael.com/will-the-al-qaeda-affiliates-ousting-assad-turn-to-israel-next/

Camera
02-10-2013, 10:39 AM
Jihadi warriors are fuelling the violent rebellion in Syria. Some fear their successes are reviving wider regional ambitions

http://www.timesofisrael.com/will-the-al-qaeda-affiliates-ousting-assad-turn-to-israel-next/

Someone will have to bomb the center itself as soon as Assad loses control over the area.

kalerab
02-10-2013, 11:38 AM
Villagers confront jihadist rebels in northern Syria


Several tense confrontations have broken out in the past week between residents of largely rebel-held northwestern Syria and hardline Islamist insurgents, witnesses said on Sunday.

A number of such altercations took place around Atme in Idlib province, where the residents generally support the hardline Al-Nusra Front group, who are spearheading attacks against forces of President Bashar al-Assad.

Al-Nusra, which is believed to be closely linked to Al-Qaeda in Iraq and which has a number of foreign fighters, has been blacklisted by Washington as a terrorist organization.

There was almost an armed clash between Al-Nusra and local rebel fighters near Atme when the group attempted to try a man in an Islamic court for swearing, witnesses told AFP.

Locals then kidnapped an Al-Nusra leader, put a grenade in his mouth and cut off his beard, before releasing him a few days later, the witnesses said.


https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyrialatestnews/villagers-confront-jihadist-rebels-in-northern-syria

Surenas
02-10-2013, 04:15 PM
Iran and Hezbollah build militia networks in Syria in event that Assad falls, officials say


Iran and Hezbollah, its Lebanese proxy, are building a network of militias inside Syria to preserve and protect their interests in the event that President Bashar al-Assad’s government falls or is forced to retreat from Damascus, according to U.S. and Middle Eastern officials.

The militias are fighting alongside Syrian government forces to keep Assad in power. But officials believe Iran’s long-term goal is to have reliable operatives in place in the event that Syria fractures into separate ethnic and sectarian enclaves.

A senior Obama administration official cited Iranian claims that Tehran was backing as many as 50,000 militiamen in Syria. “It’s a big operation,” the official said. “The immediate intention seems to be to support the Syrian regime. But it’s important for Iran to have a force in Syria that is reliable and can be counted on.”

Iran’s strategy, a senior Arab official agreed, has two tracks. “One is to support Assad to the hilt, the other is to set the stage for major mischief if he collapses.”

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.

(...)

Despite U.S. efforts to convince members of Assad’s Alawite sect, itself a minority within Islam’s Shiite branch, that their interests lay in abandoning him, Alawite support remains fairly solid.

Each of Syria’s internal actors has external backers.

“Syria is basically disintegrating as a nation, similar to how Lebanon disintegrated in the 70s to ethnic components, and as Iraq did,” said Paul Salem, director of the Beirut-based Mideast Center of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “It’s going to be very hard to put Syria the nation back together.”

“We’re looking at a place which is sort of a zone, an area called Syria, with different powers,” Salem said.

Tehran’s interest in preserving a Syrian base partly explains why the financially strapped Iranian government continues to lavish resources on groups such as Jaysh al-Sha’bi, an alliance of local Shiite and Alawite militias that receives weapons and cash from Iran, according to U.S. and Middle Eastern officials who have studied the organization. The groups are receiving military training from officers from Hezbollah and Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC).

(...)

“Jaysh is essentially an Iran-Hezbollah joint venture,” said David Cohen, under secretary for terrorism and financial intelligence at the Treasury Department. “Given the other constraints on Iranian resources right now, it’s obvious that this is an important proxy group for them.”

In slapping sanctions on the militia in December, the Treasury Department said Iran had provided it with “routine funding worth millions of dollars.”

A Treasury statement noted that Iran’s Revolutionary Guard commander has said that Jaysh was “modeled after Iran’s own Basij, a paramilitary force subordinate to the IRGC that has been heavily involved in the violent crackdowns and serious human rights abuses occurring in Iran since the June 2009 contested presidential election.”

In a divided Syria, Iran’s natural allies would include Shiites and Alawites concentrated in provinces near Syria’s border with Lebanon and in the key port city of Latakia. Under the most likely scenarios, analysts say, remnants of Assad’s government — with or without Assad himself — would seek to establish a coastal enclave closely tied to Tehran, dependent on the Iranians for survival while helping Iran to retain its link to Hezbollah and leverage against Israel.

Experts said that Iran is less interested in preserving Assad in power than in maintaining levers of power, including transport hubs inside Syria. As long as Tehran could maintain control of an air- or seaport, they could also maintain a Hezbollah-controlled supply route into Lebanon and continue to manipulate Lebanese politics.

Preservation of an Iranian-supported area on the coast has always been “Plan C or Plan D” for core regime supporters, Salem said. “If everything fails and they lose, they have always prepared for the fortress region . . . with everything they can cart away, even if they lose Damascus.”

“That’s not necessarily what they want,” he said. “They want to hold on to the whole thing.” But the worst-case scenario is that “the whole regime relocates to the northwest, and the still have the most powerful [armed] unit inside Syria, with a lot of the current structure.”

Newly installed Secretary of State John F. Kerry expressed during his confirmation hearing last month the administration’s concern that Syria could break apart, saying that “one of the scenarios everybody’s talking about is that people could sort of break up off into their places . . . and you could have a disintegration, and who knows where that leads?”

“These are the risks,” Kerry said. “I mean, this is what is at stake in this new world that we’re dealing with. And nobody could sit here and tell you how it all plays out.”

In a grim assessment to a closed-door meeting of the United Nations Security Council last week, U.N. and Arab League envoy Lakhdar Brahimi cited two “big risks that are of serious concern to the international community” as Syria unravels.

“The first is the transformation of Syria into a playground for competing regional forces, governments and non-state actors alike,” Brahimi said. “This process is largely underway.” The second risk, he said, is “full-fledged regionalization of the Syrian civil war” that would engulf “the whole Levant.''


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/iran-hezbollah-build-militia-networks-in-syria-in-event-that-assad-falls-officials-say/2013/02/10/257a41c8-720a-11e2-ac36-3d8d9dcaa2e2_story.html

Laker1
02-10-2013, 04:32 PM
Iran and Hezbollah build militia networks in Syria in event that Assad falls, officials say



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/iran-hezbollah-build-militia-networks-in-syria-in-event-that-assad-falls-officials-say/2013/02/10/257a41c8-720a-11e2-ac36-3d8d9dcaa2e2_story.html
They must make sure(from their point of view)that Hezbollah will get weapons..Syria is very important from a logistical point of view.

Surenas
02-10-2013, 04:33 PM
They must make sure that Hezbollah will get weapons..Syria is very important from a logistical point of view.

Really?

...

tanks_alot
02-10-2013, 04:46 PM
Israel: Fighting along the border is a problem
Israel: Lack of fighting along the border is a problem.
Israel: Calm along the border is an indication of a potential problem.

I know, right? some people just can't be pleased.

They got a Syria that keeps their border with Israel peaceful, while trying to inflame all of Israel's other borders and they aren't happy.

They got a Syria where fighting takes place in the border area and mortars and bullets hit Israeli territory and they aren't happy.

Now they got Jihadists in the border area and guess what? they're still not happy!

I mean, Syria is like the perfect neighbour, what's not to like about them? tough crowd, I guess.

Laker1
02-10-2013, 05:22 PM
Really?

...
LOL..you edited your post..before you wrote something with sherlock(holmes)Anyway,they know that Assad will fall in some point. The next regime will have to fight militants that will try to undermine the sovereignty. For sure there will be chaos for lots of time.

prince99x
02-10-2013, 05:42 PM
Iran and Hezbollah build militia networks in Syria in event that Assad falls, officials sayhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/iran-hezbollah-build-militia-networks-in-syria-in-event-that-assad-falls-officials-say/٢٠١٣/٠٢/١٠/٢٥٧a٤١c٨-٧٢٠a-١١e٢-ac٣٦-٣d٨d٩dcaa٢e٢_story.htmlHez i might believe but Iran i doubt unless they are stealth or going low profile.No body will control peacefully a piece of Syria but SAA whether it was ally or enemy.Those forces a multiplier helper for SAA comfort only,we will not accept them to have further goals at all.

Surenas
02-10-2013, 05:46 PM
Hez i might believe but Iran i doubt unless they are stealth or going low profile.No body will control peacefully a piece of Syria but SAA whether it was ally or enemy.Those forces a multiplier helper for SAA comfort only,we will not accept them to have further goals at all.

Your regime already accepted (surrendered to) Iran as de facto leader in the Levant long ago.

Camera
02-10-2013, 05:48 PM
Hez i might believe but Iran i doubt unless they are stealth or going low profile.No body will control peacefully a piece of Syria but SAA whether it was ally or enemy.Those forces a multiplier helper for SAA comfort only,we will not accept them to have further goals at all.

They come disguised as pilgrims that's why you do not notice them.

Flamming_Python
02-10-2013, 05:56 PM
50,000 militia my ass

With all these reports of mass Hezbollah and Iranian fighters; the rebels would have been creamed long ago and the 'axis of evil' would have enough men to station at every checkpoint on every road; instead of the current mess.

In fact the only photos and videos I've seen have been Syrian regulars fighting against the rebels. No Hezzies, no Iranians, no 'Shahhiba' or other paramilitaries/militias, just always regular Syrian army against everyone else.

Surenas
02-10-2013, 06:04 PM
A historical perspective of Iranian-Syrian relations in the Levant. Robert Baer:

- edit.

Funny and tragic how things have changed.

Bloo
02-10-2013, 06:19 PM
50,000 militia my ass

With all these reports of mass Hezbollah and Iranian fighters; the rebels would have been creamed long ago and the 'axis of evil' would have enough men to station at every checkpoint on every road; instead of the current mess.

In fact the only photos and videos I've seen have been Syrian regulars fighting against the rebels. No Hezzies, no Iranians, no 'Shahhiba' or other paramilitaries/militias, just always regular Syrian army against everyone else.

You've had both Iranian and Hezbollah officials more or less they're fighting there, the latter has flat out said it (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2012/0917/Iran-s-Revolutionary-Guard-admits-to-providing-military-assistance-in-Syria) the former has admitted to its fighters dying in a Jihad there (http://www.*******.com/article/2012/10/02/us-syria-crisis-hezbollah-idUSBRE8910S020121002). Shahiba have been seen on numerous youtube vids, I advise you browse the Syria thread in the pics & vids section. But yes generally the SAAF is better at keeping the lid on their activities from hitting the web then the FSA.

themacedonian
02-10-2013, 06:20 PM
A historical perspective of Iranian-Syrian relations in the Levant. Robert Baer:

http://oi48.*******.com/2s025q9.jpg

http://oi46.*******.com/2s7w22d.jpg

http://oi46.*******.com/s1n9yp.jpg

http://oi46.*******.com/se0jdt.jpg

http://oi49.*******.com/2zi28hs.jpg

http://oi49.*******.com/s15g11.jpg

Funny and tragic how things have changed.

Who is this idiot that wrote this crap? Syrian surrender to Iran in a single day in a single conversation about who did what.

Idiot.

Surenas
02-10-2013, 06:24 PM
Who is this idiot that wrote this crap? Syrian surrender to Iran in a single day in a single conversation about who did what.

Idiot.

An idiot who spent 21 years in the M-E as a field agent. And they didn't not 'surrendered' to Iran in one day, but that day symbolized it.

themacedonian
02-10-2013, 06:36 PM
A idiot, not a fanboy, who spent 21 years in the M-E as a field agent. And they didn't not 'surrendered' to Iran in one day, but that day symbolized it.

I quote "........ when United States invaded Iraq in August 1990" <---- Iraq invaded Kuwait in August 1990. I say again Idiot.

Things do happen as they do and not necessarily by design or long term foresight.

1990, 1991, 1992 brought changes to many many nations not just Lebanon but USSR, Yugoslavia, eastern europe. There have been many conversations and meetings.

Iran was the good guy when sending weapons to the Bosnian muslims through Croatia.

Syria surrendered to Hezbollah because they did a lot of the fighting ........ just awwghgh :(

Surenas
02-10-2013, 06:40 PM
Syria surrendered to Hezbollah because they did a lot of the fighting ........ just awwghgh :(

Please tell us more about your personal experiences in the M-E, or your almighty knowledge of the history of the Levant.

kalerab
02-10-2013, 06:41 PM
Hez i might believe but Iran i doubt unless they are stealth or going low profile.No body will control peacefully a piece of Syria but SAA whether it was ally or enemy.Those forces a multiplier helper for SAA comfort only,we will not accept them to have further goals at all.

IRGC confirmed that they are in Syria and Lebanon. Though they claim that only for training purposes.

Climber
02-10-2013, 06:43 PM
Please tell us more about your personal experiences in the M-E, or your almighty knowledge of the history of the Levant.

I can tell you some of mine, Hezzbollah nor Iran was beating us.........

themacedonian
02-10-2013, 07:05 PM
Please tell us more about your personal experiences in the M-E, or your almighty knowledge of the history of the Levant.

I am just pointing out the gross inaccuracies in this article. Maybe the word idiot is too strong.

Is it safe to agree that the rise of Hezbollah was due to the 1982 invasion and the Iranian involvement into Lebanon. I think Syria was fine with the IDF in South Lebanon and justified its own existence in Lebanon with it.

Only after the IDF withdraw in 2000 Syria looked up Hezbollah as an ally and I would say Syria has been pushed into Iran arms with Afghanistan war, Iraq invasion.

Its gone now.

kalerab
02-10-2013, 07:10 PM
Only after the IDF withdraw in 2000 Syria looked up Hezbollah as an ally and I would say Syria has been pushed into Iran arms with Afghanistan war, Iraq invasion.

Its gone now.

Not really, Hezbollah operated under Syrian auspice since beginning. Otherwise they would force Hezbollah to disarm just as they forced Geagea to disarm Lebanese Forces. Syrians left south for Hezbollah and made no action against it because they were fighting IDF.

Surenas
02-10-2013, 07:11 PM
Syrian opposition willing to hold peace talks with Bashar al-Assad


Moaz Alkhatib, the Syrian National Coalition leader, has said he was willing to hold peace talks with President Bashar al-Assad's representatives in rebel-held areas of northern Syria.

The aim of the talks would be to find a way for Mr Assad to leave power with the "minimum of bloodshed and destruction", Mr Alkhatib said in a statement published on his Facebook page.

Mr Alkhatib, a moderate cleric from Damascus, made his offer as opposition activists reported fighting had moved closer to central Damascus, following a rebel push into the east of the capital last week

"If the regime is so concerned about sovereignty and does not want to venture out of Syrian territories, then there is a suitable solution, which is the liberated land in northern Syria," he said.

"There is an important question. Will the regime agree to leave with the minimum of blood and destruction?"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9861621/Syrian-opposition-willing-to-hold-peace-talks-with-Bashar-al-Assad.html

Siempre_Leal
02-10-2013, 09:45 PM
Syrian Army In Homs Is Showing Strains Of War.


Homs, Syria
Government soldiers in Homs are showing the strain of war against opposition forces the government refers to as "terrorists."
But they told CNN that, despite enduring many casualties, their morale has not flagged. Though Homs has been the site of urban combat for two years, the soldiers -- from the front line to checkpoints -- appeared largely combat-ready.
Much has been reported about abuses allegedly committed by soldiers fighting for the regime of President Bashar al-Assad. Those allegations include the indiscriminate use of heavy weapons -- tanks, artillery and war planes -- in urban areas.


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/08/world/meast/syria-civil-war/?hpt=hp_c1

Siempre_Leal
02-10-2013, 09:46 PM
Homs' Displaced Residents Return After Year Of Sustained Bombing



A year after this city captured the world's attention as the victim of theworst shelling that Syria's civil war had yet seen (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/26/homs-syria-bomb-shelter), Homs has become a relatively safe haven. Hundreds of families who fled to other Syrian cities in fear last February have loaded their belongings and returned. Civilians from Aleppo and Deir el-Zour where fighting is still intense are moving to Homs because they have heard it is more livable.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/10/homs-displace-resident-return-bombing

Bloo
02-11-2013, 01:58 AM
Syrian Army In Homs Is Showing Strains Of War.


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/08/world/meast/syria-civil-war/?hpt=hp_c1

This is the great stalemate war of attrition of my generation I suppose. I wasn't alive when the Iran-Iraq War was going.

Genotype
02-11-2013, 03:51 AM
Edit: Never mind.

Camera
02-11-2013, 05:31 AM
I quote "........ when United States invaded Iraq in August 1990" <---- Iraq invaded Kuwait in August 1990. I say again Idiot.

There are few more inaccuracies in this excerpt from Baer's book.

tanks_alot
02-11-2013, 05:48 AM
There are few more inaccuracies in this excerpt from Baer's book.

Is that the "flat terrain south Lebanon" guy?

Camera
02-11-2013, 05:53 AM
Is that the "flat terrain south Lebanon" guy?

Yes
...........

Camera
02-11-2013, 06:13 AM
A different Middle East: Israelis for Syria


Volunteers from an Israeli organization put their lives on the line to help civilians escape warring Syria. Watch a meeting between a Syrian family and Israeli volunteers


Shlomit Sharvit Barzilay


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4341896,00.html

kalerab
02-11-2013, 07:17 AM
Rebels seize largest dam in Syria, opposition leaders say dialogue offer with Assad still stands


Syrian rebels have taken control of the country's biggest dam on the Euphrates River in the eastern province of Raqqa, activists said on Monday.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights and other Syrian activists said Islamist fighters seized the entrances to the dam after taking control of the nearby town of al-Thawra.




http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/rebels-seize-largest-dam-in-syria-opposition-leaders-say-dialogue-offer-with-assad-still-stands.premium-1.502875