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The_Android
03-18-2011, 02:40 PM
At least two protesters have been shot dead in the south Syrian city of Deraa as security forces clamped down on a protest rally.

A resident told R-e-u-t-e-r-s news agency they had been killed by security forces as protesters demanded political freedom and an end to corruption.

A human rights activist told AFP that four people had been killed.

Full article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12791738

glyph
03-18-2011, 03:11 PM
syria huh?
1. dictatorship = checked
2. non allied = checked
3. axis of evil = checked
4. civvies killed = checked

ok... let petition for no fly zone..

themacedonian
03-18-2011, 04:19 PM
syria huh?
1. dictatorship = checked
2. non allied = checked
3. axis of evil = checked
4. civvies killed = checked

ok... let petition for no fly zone..

hey Libyas petition got at least 1 Million votes. Do you think we can beat this record?

glyph
03-18-2011, 04:24 PM
hey Libyas petition got at least 1 Million votes. Do you think we can beat this record?

well the head honchos support hezzies...
and we can alway start the petition from lebanon thn to israel and move on... i'm sure the numbers will add up

PeterG
03-18-2011, 04:35 PM
And 40 killed in Yemen. 25 civillians killed in the Ivory Coast. A whole lot of bombing to be done, or..?

Ordie
03-18-2011, 04:40 PM
Better the devil we know in Syria than the devil we do not know.

themacedonian
03-18-2011, 05:03 PM
Better the devil we know in Syria than the devil we do not know.

who is the devil we do not know in Benghazi?

Ordie
03-18-2011, 05:11 PM
who is the devil we do not know in Benghazi?

We don't know.

King Idris?????

kalerab
03-18-2011, 05:15 PM
And here I thought that Bashar is pretty popular in Syria and all problems are blamed on old groups around him which rosed to power with his father.

tanks_alot
03-18-2011, 05:19 PM
syria huh?
1. dictatorship = checked
2. non allied = checked
3. axis of evil = checked
4. civvies killed = checked

ok... let petition for no fly zone..

5. Lot's of oil = che... oh, wait a sec....

Zeev
03-18-2011, 05:21 PM
Better the devil we know in Syria than the devil we do not know.
For the first time here, I can say that I agree with you.

Unfortunately, it is also the case in Libya...

Arctic Leopard
03-18-2011, 05:24 PM
The domino effect has really gone off.

IDF_TANKER
03-18-2011, 05:28 PM
Maybe all these riots are Mossad conspiracy after all...

GB_FXST
03-18-2011, 05:45 PM
Better the devil we know in Syria than the devil we do not know.

But what of "democracy" and "freedom"?

Ordie
03-18-2011, 06:00 PM
But what of "democracy" and "freedom"?

Who will Israel trust more?

GB_FXST
03-18-2011, 06:27 PM
Who will Israel trust more?


Oh, I happen to agree with you on this one. But, along with Assad, I also prefer the known devils of Mubarak and Gaddafi.

I am simply surprised to see you support Assad as the lesser of evils.

Ordie
03-18-2011, 06:40 PM
Oh, I happen to agree with you on this one. But, along with Assad, I also prefer the known devils of Mubarak and Gaddafi.

I am simply surprised to see you support Assad as the lesser of evils.

If Syria goes to hell, what will happen in Lebanon?

MustafaK
03-18-2011, 06:43 PM
I say well done to security forces. p-)

GB_FXST
03-18-2011, 06:47 PM
If Syria goes to hell, what will happen in Lebanon?

My interest in Lebanon is (admitedly selfishly) focused on Hezbollah. An unstable Syria is a doubled edged sword, as Assad's regime both supports and restrains Hezbollah. That said, Assad is a secularist, and thus essentially a pragmatists of sorts. A radical Sunni/Islamist regime is definitely not in Israel's interest. And, I suspect, theological disputes with Shia Hezbollah will take a back seat to a common enemy, Israel.

Zeev
03-18-2011, 06:56 PM
I am simply surprised to see you support Assad as the lesser of evils.
Actually, that's what he is. His support to Hezbollah is something temporary, he'll have no problem to abandon them if needed.

GB_FXST
03-18-2011, 07:09 PM
Actually, that's what he is. His support to Hezbollah is something temporary, he'll have no problem to abandon them if needed.

I agree that Assad is loyal to only himself, and will ruthlessly protect his interest and his place in power.

Ulytau
03-18-2011, 07:57 PM
According to some friends they were preparing protest since protests start in Tunus '-'

Flagg
03-18-2011, 09:44 PM
Full article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12791738

Only two killed?

Wow...Syria is like the most progressive "democratically challenged" Arab nation......only 2 dead?

Compared to the likes of Yemen, Libya, Tunisia, and Egypt.....Syria is like the little ole' liberal Iceland of the Middle East...I kid I kid.

At least they're not cordoning off a city and turning it into a parking lot like Hama in 82.

Nickchios
03-18-2011, 10:28 PM
^^^
Greek media reporting 5 deads.....

edit:......and many wounded from gunfire.

kkbou
03-18-2011, 10:34 PM
If the protest movement expands in Syria, it will be blood up to the knees.

The ruling elite have too much to lose; it will be back to serfdom for the alawites.

themacedonian
03-18-2011, 11:09 PM
But what of "democracy" and "freedom"?

The world and Israel does not need a "free democrazy" government in Syria.

Flagg
03-18-2011, 11:24 PM
If the protest movement expands in Syria, it will be blood up to the knees.

The ruling elite have too much to lose; it will be back to serfdom for the alawites.

I reckon they'd go all in and try for Hama2.0 to stall the fall.....what options do they have(for long-term minority dictatorships) besides slaughtering their way back to full and clear control, or escaping....

but to where?

Who would take them?

And would they be willing to accept being mortals?

No more nation state running wiseguys?

No more power?

They'd be just normal schmucks even if they could negotiate their way into exile somewhere that accepts their filth.

In many respects they are like a mafia clan living in a mafia controlled city(for now) under a glass dome....the only way out of the life they chose or accepted is in a pine box if they're lucky.

Ordie
03-19-2011, 01:34 AM
^^^
Except that Bashir is the Freddo Corleone of the Assad Family.

Player
03-19-2011, 06:11 AM
My interest in Lebanon is (admitedly selfishly) focused on Hezbollah. An unstable Syria is a doubled edged sword, as Assad's regime both supports and restrains Hezbollah. That said, Assad is a secularist, and thus essentially a pragmatists of sorts. A radical Sunni/Islamist regime is definitely not in Israel's interest. And, I suspect, theological disputes with Shia Hezbollah will take a back seat to a common enemy, Israel.

I disagree on this one. If the Assad's regime ever falls, this would most likely mean the end of military/financial support for Hezb. In the worst case scenario Israel would have nothing to lose anyway, so actually it would be better for Israel if the Syrian regime is brought down. Not to mention that this would increase the likelihood of a peace agreement between the two countries.

OrangeWolf
03-19-2011, 08:13 AM
The Alewites can only stay in power through opposing Israel, this is how they can somewhat temper the desires of the larger elements of society. Anyway, without Assad it will probably be some other nutjobs, and the Alewites (and Christians) will likely end up shot. They won't give up.

@Player, who do you think is the largest group in Syria, both by political mindset and religious sext? The only peace Israel can have with Syria is making sure they are too weak - militarily and politically - to get a grip on the Golan.

GB_FXST
03-19-2011, 11:56 AM
The world and Israel does not need a "free democrazy" government in Syria.

I know; I was being facetious considering Ordie's comments.


I disagree on this one. If the Assad's regime ever falls, this would most likely mean the end of military/financial support for Hezb. In the worst case scenario Israel would have nothing to lose anyway, so actually it would be better for Israel if the Syrian regime is brought down. Not to mention that this would increase the likelihood of a peace agreement between the two countries.

Hezbollah is an extension of Iran, with Syrian backing. Loss of Assad's support would of course be a problem, but I do not think the end of Hezbollah.

Climber
03-19-2011, 10:15 PM
Better the devil we know in Syria than the devil we do not know.

When I said that about Egypt, people told me that I was beign Antidemocratic. ironic Uh?

Zeev
03-19-2011, 11:02 PM
I disagree on this one. If the Assad's regime ever falls, this would most likely mean the end of military/financial support for Hezb. In the worst case scenario Israel would have nothing to lose anyway, so actually it would be better for Israel if the Syrian regime is brought down. Not to mention that this would increase the likelihood of a peace agreement between the two countries.
Even with a new regime, the population of Syria would stay the same, and I doubt that they would be ready to give up the golan, so except about the hezbollah sponsoring, I do not see why it would increase peace chances.

If sunni islamists take control in Syria, as an exemple, I do not see why they would be more peaceful toward israel than assad's regime is.

Zeev
03-19-2011, 11:03 PM
When I said that about Egypt, people told me that I was beign Antidemocratic. ironic Uh?
It depends of what kind of people. ;)

Proudgrandson
03-21-2011, 09:30 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12800243

Syria: Protesters in south set fire to buildings

Demonstrators in the southern Syrian city of Deraa have set fire to several buildings during a third consecutive day of protests, witnesses say.

One report said the buildings targeted included the headquarters of the ruling Baath Party.

Police tried to disperse protesters in the southern city, and one demonstrator was reportedly killed.

Violent clashes between anti-government protesters and security forces on Friday left at least four people dead.

The protests on Sunday came as a government delegation arrived in Deraa to offer condolences for those killed.....continues on link.

Hama2 about to happen??

glyph
03-21-2011, 10:10 AM
^ they wont be hama 2. the peaceful pro democracy protestor will ask for NFZ from West and Assad will be toast.

Btw if they ask Israel to helped in as well it will be a sight to see.. on different note they may paint Assad as the juice.. which may not be a good thing.

Proudgrandson
03-21-2011, 10:47 AM
^ they wont be hama 2. the peaceful pro democracy protestor will ask for NFZ from West and Assad will be toast.

Btw if they ask Israel to helped in as well it will be a sight to see.. on different note they may paint Assad as the juice.. which may not be a good thing.

Would Russia allow action against Syria whatever Assad ordered or use its veto?

sepheronx
03-21-2011, 10:49 AM
Would Russia allow action against Syria whatever Assad ordered or use its veto?

Maybe Russia will pull a France/UK/US?

Bloo
03-21-2011, 12:14 PM
I know; I was being facetious considering Ordie's comments.



Hezbollah is an extension of Iran, with Syrian backing. Loss of Assad's support would of course be a problem, but I do not think the end of Hezbollah.

While Hezbollah is more ideologically and politically attached to Iran, it gets most of its weapons from Syria. The majority of its rockets, the M-600's, the Kornets, the RPG-29's, the SA-8's, and soon the P-800 ASM's. Iran provides some important stuff yes, such as Zelzals and C-704's, but Syria still seems to be the greater arms supplier if you look at their arsenal.

The end of Assad will probably meant he end to Syrian support of Hezbollah. I can't see the conservative Sunni regime that will replace him supporting a Shia Iranian proxy like that.

Anyway, it's still a long way off from Assad being overthrown. He's likely to do Al Hama-II before he gives up power, he's somewhere between Mubarak and Gadaffi. Iran showed that even when the situation seems doomed for the dictators, with enough force they can still retain power.

sepheronx
03-21-2011, 12:16 PM
While Hezbollah is more ideologically and politically attached to Iran, it gets most of its weapons from Syria. The majority of its rockets, the M-600's, the Kornets, the RPG-29's, the SA-8's, and soon the P-800 ASM's. Iran provides some important stuff yes, such as Zelzals and C-704's, but Syria still seems to be the greater arms supplier if you look at their arsenal.

The end of Assad will probably meant he end to Syrian support of Hezbollah. I can't see the conservative Sunni regime that will replace him supporting a Shia Iranian proxy like that.

Anyway, it's still a long way off from Assad being overthrown. He's likely to do Al Hama-II before he gives up power, he's somewhere between Mubarak and Gadaffi. Iran showed that even when the situation seems doomed for the dictators, with enough force they can still retain power.

So far, I have never heard Hezbollah use the Osa system. And how do you expect them to launch cruise missiles like P-800?

Bloo
03-21-2011, 12:20 PM
So far, I have never heard Hezbollah use the Osa system. And how do you expect them to launch cruise missiles like P-800?

There were a lot of rumors that Syria has given the Hezzi's Osa's, and generally it's best to air on the side of caution and assume that the rumors are true. Given how heavily Hezbollah is armed now and given how poorly their air defenses fared in 2006, I think it's rather obvious the rumors are true as these people aren't stupid.

As for the P-800's, the IDF seems pretty concerned that Hezbollah will use them via coastal launchers.

Pulsar
03-22-2011, 09:56 PM
I think this arrest will add more fuel to the fire..


Syria arrests opposition leader as protests continue
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/22/syria.protests/index.html

Pulsar
03-22-2011, 10:05 PM
******* FLASH: Syrian security forces storm Omari Mosque in southern city of Deraa, killing at least four people.

LuKaZz
03-22-2011, 11:35 PM
As I have relatives on my mother's side who live in Syria and are Christian I really hope he clings on to power, I don't like despots but I'd much rather have an Arab nationalist, although despicable and undemocratic, than a loony Sunni fanatic. At least the regime is secular, that's something already.

Anyway in all honesty, I know I shouldn't say that, but I really believe that the Hama-way is the only rational way of dealing with Islamists, destroy them.

Yu1980
03-23-2011, 03:44 AM
Judging by this video, these "protesters" in Deraa set fire to cars and attacked government buildings. Every state in this situation has the right to use force against rioters ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYHqMY0eTFI

seasch
03-23-2011, 04:40 AM
Judging by this video, these "protesters" in Deraa set fire to cars and attacked government buildings. Every state in this situation has the right to use force against rioters ..

I believe, that every human has the right to elect his government and it his government is not democratic, he has the right to overthrow it by all means necessary.

Climber
03-23-2011, 09:01 AM
I believe, that every human has the right to elect his government and it his government is not democratic, he has the right to overthrow it by all means necessary.

That's quiet naive.

Democracy is a historical and cultural construction, a difficult one, and a western value.

What we are so superior that we believe that our values are better than other's.

seasch
03-23-2011, 10:41 AM
Non-representive government similiar to slavery. I do believe, that there are some values, than are better than others. Other positions have advantages and disadvantages which different people can have valid reasons to agree or disagree.

Democracy has problems, true. Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried. Till you (or anyone else) bring evidence for a better form of government, I'll stick with Winston.

Democracy has proven to be superior to other forms of government, even without a large democratic tradition: Japan, where it replaced a god-emperor and Taiwan, where it replaced a military ruler.

Climber
03-23-2011, 11:37 AM
Non-representive government similiar to slavery. I do believe, that there are some values, than are better than others. Other positions have advantages and disadvantages which different people can have valid reasons to agree or disagree.

Democracy has problems, true. Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried. Till you (or anyone else) bring evidence for a better form of government, I'll stick with Winston.

Democracy has proven to be superior to other forms of government, even without a large democratic tradition: Japan, where it replaced a god-emperor and Taiwan, where it replaced a military ruler.




I don't think you are understanding me.
Of course Democracy is better.

But is naive and dangerous to think that it can be imposed, that it can be built on one night, that its a matter of goodwill. It's typical of pseudo cultural superiority to think that way. Think about it.

seasch
03-23-2011, 12:17 PM
I don't think you are understanding me.
Of course Democracy is better.

But is naive and dangerous to think that it can be imposed, that it can be built on one night, that its a matter of goodwill. It's typical of pseudo cultural superiority to think that way. Think about it.

I agree, there are very few cases, where democracy can be imposed. On the other hand, I have no problem with cultural superority. I do believe, that some cultures are better then others.

Climber
03-23-2011, 01:49 PM
I agree, there are very few cases, where democracy can be imposed. On the other hand, I have no problem with cultural superority. I do believe, that some cultures are better then others.

Here I disagree profoundly. That's the ideology of Europe that I think is the base of all the problems nowadays.

Proudgrandson
03-23-2011, 09:22 PM
Well yesterday it was 6 people and today there were demonstrations at their funerals and.....

Syria unrest: Troops 'kill 10 protesters in Deraa'

At least 10 people have been killed and dozens wounded after Syrian police opened fire on people protesting against the deaths of anti-government demonstrators in Deraa, witnesses say.

Hundreds of youths from nearby villages were shot at when they tried to march into the centre of the southern city.

One person told the ******* news agency that "bodies fell in the streets".

Troops also reportedly shot at people attending the funerals of six people killed in a raid on a mosque overnight....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12843905

'Blood on the scales.'

socom6
03-23-2011, 09:55 PM
Well I can be sure that Assad will be as usual brutal and vicious in suppressing these people.

Alienfreak
03-23-2011, 11:38 PM
Here I disagree profoundly. That's the ideology of Europe that I think is the base of all the problems nowadays.

So if europeans wouldn't think as superior of themselves the Palestinians would just stop killing jews? Shiites and Sunnites would be friends? Hindus and Muslims would stop killing each other? North and South Korea would reunite?

I think you are a bit naive here.

squidO
03-24-2011, 09:35 AM
Opposition figures say members of Lebanese Shiite group working alongside Syrian security forces to quell Deraa riots;
local hospital says bodies of 25 protestors brought in, 'all with gunshot wounds'

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4047276,00.html

25 protesters killed just in one small town.
And nobody gives a shyt...

The_Android
03-24-2011, 09:39 AM
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4047200,00.html

25 protesters killed just in one small town.
And nobody gives a shyt...

Actually most news agencies are reporting about the protests in Syria. Another thing is if people actually care.

Korathv2
03-24-2011, 09:39 AM
25 protesters killed just in one small town.
And nobody gives a shyt...

I just saw a wire with a claim that there are over 100 fatalities there.

Climber
03-24-2011, 09:59 AM
So if europeans wouldn't think as superior of themselves the Palestinians would just stop killing jews? Shiites and Sunnites would be friends? Hindus and Muslims would stop killing each other? North and South Korea would reunite?

I think you are a bit naive here.

Naive? I think you are confusing Naivete with bitterness and at some degree also hate by my side. I held Europe culture as the base of the world problems, and that pseudo cultural superiority is the main problem of all. They made all these countries drawing maps on the London, Paris offices while smoking "puros" and drinking single malts, they moved slaves and populations, they made colonies and abandoned them afterwards, they made wars with millions of deaths, they use puppets to control third world puppets, they pay bribes, they use corruption and are corrupt. And then they try to held the high moral ground and go telling all how to do this and that, while at the end all what is important is the money and their interests. Morality my ass, its all about ****ing business.

Do you think I am being naive? check again because I don't have a hair of naivete.

Nickchios
03-24-2011, 10:09 AM
'More than 100 killed in Syrian anti-government protests'


By OREN KESSLER (jpostcolumns@gmail.com) AND ******* (jpostcolumns@gmail.com)
03/24/2011

Human rights activists say protesters killed by police gunfire in Deraa; Witnesses report live bullets, tear gas fired at anti-gov't protesters.


More than 100 protesters have been killed by police gunfire in Deraa, the Syrian city where a recent wave of anti-government protests have taken place, AFP cited human rights activists and witnesses as saying Thursday.

The main hospital in the Syrian city of Deraa has received the bodies of at least 25 protesters who died in confrontations with security forces, a hospital official said on Thursday.

Full Article:http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?ID=213609&R=R1

OrangeWolf
03-24-2011, 10:13 AM
Why would Assad need Lebanese Shiites? Doesn't he have plenty of loyal Alewites to do the dirty jobs?

ZZEZ
03-24-2011, 10:35 AM
Guiz, time for no fly zone?p-)

Nickchios
03-24-2011, 10:42 AM
Guiz, time for no fly zone?p-)

Not yet.....p-)

The dead must reach 333 to have a no fly zone...

BTW.....RIP :(

GB_FXST
03-24-2011, 10:43 AM
Naive? I think you are confusing Naivete with bitterness and at some degree also hate by my side. I held Europe culture as the base of the world problems, and that pseudo cultural superiority is the main problem of all. They made all these countries drawing maps on the London, Paris offices while smoking "puros" and drinking single malts, they moved slaves and populations, they made colonies and abandoned them afterwards, they made wars with millions of deaths, they use puppets to control third world puppets, they pay bribes, they use corruption and are corrupt. And then they try to held the high moral ground and go telling all how to do this and that, while at the end all what is important is the money and their interests. Morality my ass, its all about ****ing business.

Do you think I am being naive? check again because I don't have a hair of naivete.


With all respect, you are describing morals (or the lack thereof), not culture. Sure, one could argue that culture fosters such immorality. But, on a more fundamental level it is a matter of human nature combined with unchecked power. In other words, regardless of the trappings of culture, historically speaking, a technologically superior society will generally exploit a technologically inferior society.

That said, the political culture -a classical liberal republic based on the rights of the citizen/individual - that emerged out of Europe in the 19th Century is superior to the political culture of traditional Arab societies.

I agree, however, that the classical liberal model with its emphasis on civil rights cannot be simply transplanted on to other societies.

I also agree (as you probably already know) that contemporary declarations of moral indignation and judgement are all too often the epitome of hypcorisy.

KoTeMoRe
03-24-2011, 10:44 AM
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7493/sharkozyyunoflyzonesyridotjpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/i/sharkozyyunoflyzonesyridotjpg/)

Climber
03-24-2011, 12:00 PM
With all respect, you are describing morals (or the lack thereof), not culture. Sure, one could argue that culture fosters such immorality. But, on a more fundamental level it is a matter of human nature combined with unchecked power. In other words, regardless of the trappings of culture, historically speaking, a technologically superior society will generally exploit a technologically inferior society.

That said, the political culture -a classical liberal republic based on the rights of the citizen/individual - that emerged out of Europe in the 19th Century is superior to the political culture of traditional Arab societies.

I agree, however, that the classical liberal model with its emphasis on civil rights cannot be simply transplanted on to other societies.

I also agree (as you probably already know) that contemporary declarations of moral indignation and judgement are all too often the epitome of hypcorisy.

When someone says superior the hair of my neck rise.

The worse thing is that they do not realize this.

An European doing the same as an American is aways more classy, superior and civilized, even if such thing is killing people.

Anyway I maintain my idea that is cultural.

Zeev
03-24-2011, 07:40 PM
Anyway in all honesty, I know I shouldn't say that, but I really believe that the Hama-way is the only rational way of dealing with Islamists, destroy them.
You're damn right! AMEN.

Sootan
03-25-2011, 01:17 AM
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7493/sharkozyyunoflyzonesyridotjpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/i/sharkozyyunoflyzonesyridotjpg/)
Well, without massive defection by the military, Syria could actually challenge any military intervention there.

Sootan
03-25-2011, 01:19 AM
You're damn right! AMEN.
Amen to massacre, yeah!

[Did you also pump your fist in the air while saying that?]

Yu1980
03-25-2011, 04:10 AM
In early March, Syrian security forces seized (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/11/syria-seizes-arms-from-iraq) large shipment of weapons, explosives and night-vision goggles in a truck coming from Iraq. However, apparently not all weapons were seized..

The Syrian TV broadcast pictures showing the weapons, ammunitions and big amounts of money stockpiled by the armed gang inside al-Omari Mosque.
The pictures showed various types of weapons and ammunitions including hand grenades, machineguns and Kalashnikov rifles.
Two months ago, the General Supervisor of the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria, Riyad al-Shaqfa, announced the group's return to military action in the country.
http://i52.*******.com/jk802qdotjpg
http://i53.*******.com/29gll5wdotjpg
http://i56.*******.com/e8rhw7dotjpg

King of Scandinavia
03-25-2011, 09:47 AM
Why would Assad need Lebanese Shiites? Doesn't he have plenty of loyal Alewites to do the dirty jobs?
Hmmm....I wouldn't be so sure.

1226: Al Sununu tweets: "Demonstrations in Homs are a big blow to the Asad regime. Lots of Alawites live in the city and most of them are strong loyalists#Syria"

1243: In Syria, the BBC's Lina Sinjab says about 100 citizens gathered today in al Qraya town in Sweida governorate, in the south of the country (it's the hometown of Syrian independence leader Sultan Basha al-Atrash). But the would-be demonstrators found a huge crowd of pro-government Bathists had occupied the main square.

glyph
03-25-2011, 10:17 AM
In early March, Syrian security forces seized (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/11/syria-seizes-arms-from-iraq) large shipment of weapons, explosives and night-vision goggles in a truck coming from Iraq. However, apparently not all weapons were seized..


lie.... those are peace loving pro-democracy protesters who tired of tyranic rules of evil juice dictator Assad!!!

Ordie
03-25-2011, 03:16 PM
If I were a Christian or a member of a religious minority in Syria, I would have a plan "B".
NATO should also have a plan given that one of its members shares a border and may face an influx of refugees if Syria breaks-up.

Zeev
03-25-2011, 03:20 PM
Amen to massacre, yeah!

[Did you also pump your fist in the air while saying that?]
Massacre? Yeah, islamists deserves to be slaughtered, but maybe you have some propositions to give about the way to deal with them?

Ordie
03-25-2011, 03:53 PM
Massacre? Yeah, islamists deserves to be slaughtered, but maybe you have some propositions to give about the way to deal with them?

Hell must be frozen right now for Israelis to support Assad.

Zeev
03-25-2011, 03:58 PM
Hell must be frozen right now for Israelis to support Assad.
Honestly that's not support, but if you're not able to make a choice between baasists and islamic integrists, you have some serious problems.

If I say that I prefer Flu to AIDS, that doesn't mean that I think that Flu is something positive in a general way.

sgt_G
03-25-2011, 04:02 PM
http://i56.*******.com/e8rhw7dotjpg

holy **** are those mk II grenades??

tanks_alot
03-25-2011, 04:04 PM
Hell must be frozen right now for Israelis to support Assad.
I don't know what to make of it. Syria is in alliance with Iran and without Syria, Iran would have a very hard time supporting Hezballah. while there were calls from the protestors to send forces to the Golan, they've also claimed Hezballah was sent to Syria in order to crush the protests, plus that they've captured an Iranian sniper. wheter it's true ir not, is not the point, the point is that the protestors are drawing connections to Iran, in order to make Assad's regime, look bad, in their eyes.

Either way, all we can do now, is watch and see what will come out of it.

Ordie
03-25-2011, 04:05 PM
Honestly that's not support, but if you're not able to make a choice between baasists and islamic integrists, you have some serious problems.

If I say that I prefer Flu to AIDS, that doesn't mean that I think that Flu is something positive in a general way.

I agree.

The lesser of two evils.
I wonder what will Israel Druze community will do if the Syrian Druze are in trouble with the Sunni majority.

Could the Golan end up being a Druze homeland and Israeli controlled buffer state?

(Far fetched-but in the ME everything and anything is possible)

OrangeWolf
03-25-2011, 05:57 PM
I agree.

The lesser of two evils.
I wonder what will Israel Druze community will do if the Syrian Druze are in trouble with the Sunni majority.

Could the Golan end up being a Druze homeland and Israeli controlled buffer state?

(Far fetched-but in the ME everything and anything is possible)

That was proposed before, but it didn't happen. I don't think it would be wise for Israel to loosen any authority over that strategic asset.

What's the demographic situation of Daraa? Also I don't know anything about the Syrian Druze relationship with Assad's regime. I know many Golan Druze are pragmatically "pro-Syrian" but does anyone know about the Syrian Druze, as well as their position in the army?

Wikipedia says "many Druze military officers played an important role when it comes to the Baathist regime currently ruling Syria", not sure if it's credible.

Zeev
03-25-2011, 06:13 PM
That was proposed before, but it didn't happen. I don't think it would be wise for Israel to loosen any authority over that strategic asset.

What's the demographic situation of Daraa? Also I don't know anything about the Syrian Druze relationship with Assad's regime. I know many Golan Druze are pragmatically "pro-Syrian" but does anyone know about the Syrian Druze, as well as their position in the army?

Wikipedia says "many Druze military officers played an important role when it comes to the Baathist regime currently ruling Syria", not sure if it's credible.
From what I've heard, it seems that syrian druzes are doing the same than their brothers in Israel; they play the game and they are quite loyal. So I think that your wiki source is right.

OrangeWolf
03-25-2011, 07:29 PM
I read on a Dutch news source they were screaming "No to Hezbollah no to Iran", but I guess they are just pissing off the Shi'a?

Zeev
03-25-2011, 08:20 PM
I read on a Dutch news source they were screaming "No to Hezbollah no to Iran", but I guess they are just pissing off the Shi'a?
If I'm not wrong, there were clashes between druzes and hzb in lebanon these last years, in 2008 I guess...

Proudgrandson
03-26-2011, 12:54 AM
Syria: Protests in Deraa, Damascus, Hama and Homs

Protests have been staged in towns and cities across Syria, including the capital Damascus, a day after the government announced limited changes.
Unconfirmed reports said a number of people had been killed in at least three separate protests.

Fresh gunfire was also heard in the city of Deraa, which has become the centre of a serious challenge to the regime of President Bashar al-Assad.
Amnesty International fears 55 people have died there in the past week.

The marchers who took to the streets in Deraa on Friday had attended funerals for some of the 25 protesters killed on Wednesday.

'Peaceful, Peaceful'

Some of the protesters started a fire under a bronze statue of Mr Assad's father, the late President Hafez al-Assad, witnesses reported.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12858972

Ordie
03-26-2011, 01:10 AM
What's going on in Lebanon?

Pandy
03-26-2011, 02:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oraas1O7DIc&feature=channel_video_title

Not looking good at all... Everyone out there is getting it on.

pride
03-26-2011, 05:05 AM
edit



1234567890

KoTeMoRe
03-26-2011, 09:04 AM
sgt_G: could be F1 too.

Kangars
03-26-2011, 09:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9_BOjkD2wY&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz56DBwjLdQ&feature=player_embedded

Protests continue.

KoTeMoRe
03-26-2011, 09:44 AM
That No Fly Zone isn't goint to come by itself.

Bloo
03-26-2011, 11:49 AM
I remember back when Mubarak fell Assad said that "regimes which support the resistance" would be immune from revolts.

Talk about being epically wrong.

Fat Lazy American
03-26-2011, 11:52 AM
I remember back when Mubarak fell Assad said that "regimes which support the resistance" would be immune from revolts.

Talk about being epically wrong.

From Jeremy Bowen (BBC) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12866535 :



President Assad, who succeeded his father in the job 11 years ago, is personally popular. But that might change if his security forces kill more protesters and if he doesn't deliver on reform.


So, there's that. Jeremy Bowen still likes Assad.

King of Scandinavia
03-26-2011, 11:55 AM
From Jeremy Bowen (BBC) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12866535 :



So, there's that. Jeremy Bowen still likes Assad.
Hypothetically speaking, what will happen to Syria if Assad falls?

Mordoror
03-26-2011, 12:02 PM
Hypothetically speaking, what will happen to Syria if Assad falls?

depends to whom he falls
anyway you will have a nice period of unrest, civil unstability and maybe civil war between tribes and religious factions

Proudgrandson
03-26-2011, 12:37 PM
depends to whom he falls
anyway you will have a nice period of unrest, civil unstability and maybe civil war between tribes and religious factions


With the potential if it does wind up with Civil War for Hezbollah to get drawn in and chewed up?

squidO
03-26-2011, 12:49 PM
The problem is that in the Arab world there is no alternative to Arab social-nationalism other than Islamism.

Democracy, equality, human rights, economic rights and freedoms - all of these Western values ​​are alien to local culture and mentality. Many people prefer an Islamic rules, not because they are religious fanatics, but because they believe that the government based on Islam, on religious principles, would be more honest and less corrupt.

khukuri
03-26-2011, 01:02 PM
Theyd slaughter the alawites...

Yu1980
03-26-2011, 01:12 PM
Hypothetically speaking, what will happen to Syria if Assad falls?

In this case, alawite and christians would be in very bad and dangerous situation.

Yu1980
03-26-2011, 01:33 PM
Lattakia, (SANA)-An official source said an armed group seized rooftops in some districts of Lattakia, opening fire at passers-by, citizens and security forces personnel.

squidO
03-26-2011, 03:12 PM
The number of killed in Syria now is far above that mentioned in the title of the thread.
May the title be changed?

The_Android
03-26-2011, 03:38 PM
The number of killed in Syria now is far above that mentioned in the title of the thread.
May the title be changed?

The mods have to do that.

LuKaZz
03-26-2011, 03:39 PM
If I'm not wrong, there were clashes between druzes and hzb in lebanon these last years, in 2008 I guess...

According to some guy from Lebanese Forces I talked to last year when I was living in Lebanon, there was quite a harsh firefight between some Hezbullahs who had strayed into Druze territory up in the Chouf, apparently they had gone up there as a show of power like they did in West Beirut, but apparently the Druze reacted properly and lot of those guys got killed.

KoTeMoRe
03-26-2011, 04:32 PM
In this case, alawite and christians would be in very bad and dangerous situation.

And Turkomans...no trolling here. Turkey should be worried.

frenchy
03-26-2011, 04:55 PM
Is a foreign operation possible in Syria, like in Libya, if Assad's regime continues to kill protesters ?

tanks_alot
03-26-2011, 05:21 PM
According to some guy from Lebanese Forces I talked to last year when I was living in Lebanon, there was quite a harsh firefight between some Hezbullahs who had strayed into Druze territory up in the Chouf, apparently they had gone up there as a show of power like they did in West Beirut, but apparently the Druze reacted properly and lot of those guys got killed.

In 2008, the Druze under Junblat's party, fought against Hezballah, while another Druze party was aliied with Hezballah. since then, Junbalat had joined sides with Hezballah and helped bring down Hariri's government and bring a pro Hezballah PM into power.

Zeev
03-26-2011, 08:57 PM
I remember back when Mubarak fell Assad said that "regimes which support the resistance" would be immune from revolts.

Talk about being epically wrong.
From the islamists point of view, the resistance can be AQ and other jihadist groups, in this case, the secular arab dictatures are as well their ennemies as Israel or the US can be.

It's a matter of perspectives... ;)

Zeev
03-26-2011, 09:04 PM
Is a foreign operation possible in Syria, like in Libya, if Assad's regime continues to kill protesters ?
Militarily, It would be more difficult to attack syria than libya, the regime is buddy with Iran and Russia (on a lesser degree but still) and it could be something much more risked in terms of civilisations clash.

Check the neighborhood; a divided lebanon, an instable and violent Irak, Jordan under riots, and the israel-palestinian conflict at the next door.

Octavariable
03-27-2011, 02:05 AM
Can we change the title to (possibly) hundreds?

And also, it's very "nice" to see Assad is still an arab. Blaming Israel, Blaming the west, and my personal favourite, blaming "Palestinians" (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4048054,00.html)

KoTeMoRe
03-27-2011, 03:28 AM
1960's called...

Ren987
03-27-2011, 08:05 AM
In the name of Realpolitik, I keep hearing the old saying 'better the evil you know, then the evil you don't know'. Assad's may have kept the Golan quiet since 1973 but instead the frontline has been moved to south lebanon, under the syrian regime's benediction and patronage. This has allowed the IRCG to implement a formidable launching pad at Israel doorstep. Assad launched a nuke, chemical and bacteriologic program, make available all its army inventory to Hezbollah (which they help setting up when they were occupying Lebanon) from Scud, to the latest Kornet, Pantsir SAM to the Yakhont Cruise Missile. I'm not sure how the MB can be worst than the Assad dynasty.

KoTeMoRe
03-27-2011, 08:13 AM
Very easy. You will still have Hiz and MB fighting for the power in Syria and Lebanon with all the other minorities being in the middle of the fray.

Lebanon Kingsize? Plus if really Bashar's time is up then let's face it he will be brought down.

themacedonian
03-27-2011, 10:01 AM
honestly wtf is happening in Syria?

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/twelve-killed-in-syria-violence/story-e6frfkui-1226029062098

THE Syrian government says 12 people have been killed in violence rocking a seaside Mediterranean city. Syria's state-run news agency said unknown armed elements on Saturday attacked neighbourhoods in Latakia, shooting from rooftops and terrorising people.
Ten people, including security forces, residents as well as two members of the shadowy "armed elements" died in the violence.
Some 200 others were wounded, most from the security forces, the report said.
Syrian army units deployed in Latakia on Saturday night following a day of violence and chaos in which protesters and the government traded accusations of violence and incitement.



This is part protesting stage.

dkusman
03-27-2011, 12:55 PM
Mediterranean Dominos effect just started....:-(

Avigo
03-27-2011, 03:13 PM
I don't think that Assad will be overthrown since according to many sources most of the country supports Assad, just today i woke up hearing "Allah Souriyya Bashar ou bas" ( God Syria and Bashar Only ) in Lebanon and i thought it was the TV on since it's very unusual to happen such a thing in this part of Lebanon, there were around 200 Syrians marching supporting Assad

Fat Lazy American
03-27-2011, 03:27 PM
I don't think that Assad will be overthrown since according to many sources most of the country supports Assad,

It's completely impossible to discern how popular an autocratic police state is.

Zeev
03-27-2011, 03:58 PM
honestly wtf is happening in Syria?

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/twelve-killed-in-syria-violence/story-e6frfkui-1226029062098

THE Syrian government says 12 people have been killed in violence rocking a seaside Mediterranean city. Syria's state-run news agency said unknown armed elements on Saturday attacked neighbourhoods in Latakia, shooting from rooftops and terrorising people.
Ten people, including security forces, residents as well as two members of the shadowy "armed elements" died in the violence.
Some 200 others were wounded, most from the security forces, the report said.
Syrian army units deployed in Latakia on Saturday night following a day of violence and chaos in which protesters and the government traded accusations of violence and incitement.



This is part protesting stage.
The syrian regime is at war with islamists since decades, there were car bomb and suicide attacks in syrian cities in 2007, 2008, 2009 and way before.

No doubts that they are seeking for opportunities to use violence, and the current mess is welcome.

TheDarkSide
03-29-2011, 08:58 AM
yeah syrian goverment is actaully reform friendly, opened itself up to the world, political and economicaly, it fought islamists damn hard and is actaully a progressive secular regime with very good woman rights and woman emancipation

assad has no interesst in war with israel even opened up "secret" talks with them

its actaully frightening that it might be a islamist uprising like it already happened in syria with the muslim brotherhood in 1982

KoTeMoRe
03-29-2011, 09:37 AM
Actually the situation in Syria for secular people is getting really hairy. Everyone has been turned into its former self. To please, the government has been muting both parties, the secular and islamic. But there is no synergy like one could see in the early 80's. The Hama affair has gone through there as well as the repeated economical crisis.

In all honesty Syria is a real ticking bomb.

sgt_G
03-30-2011, 06:24 AM
well since no one posted it...



Syria’s Cabinet Resigns; Concessions Expected
By MICHAEL SLACKMAN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/michael_slackman/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

CAIRO — The Syrian government resigned Tuesday in what might have been a prelude to other concessions in a speech President Bashar al-Assad (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/bashar_al_assad/index.html?inline=nyt-per) is expected to give to the nation on Wednesday, part of an expanding effort to address protests against his authoritarian rule.

The resignation was seen as a significant — if primarily symbolic — gesture in a nation where the leadership rarely responds to public pressure and where decisions are made not by the cabinet but by the president and his inner circle, including multiple security services.

“It is not about the government, it is about the policies of the state,” said Abdel Majid Manjouni, the head of the Socialist Democratic Arab Union Party in Aleppo. “The ministers are not the ones who decide these things. That is the president. He makes the policies.”

more here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/30/world/middleeast/30syria.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print

The_Android
03-30-2011, 12:28 PM
Assad blames 'conspirators' for Syria unrest

Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president, has blamed "conspirators" for two weeks of anti-government protests that have rocked the nation.
In his first address to the nation since the start of a violent crackdown on the protests, Assad said Syria was going through a "test of unity".

"I belong to the Syrian people, and whoever belongs to the Syrian people will always keep his head high," he said in the televised address before members of parliament in the capital, Damascus, on Wednesday.
"I know that the Syrian people have been awaiting this speech since last week, but I was waiting to get the full picture... to avoid giving an emotional address that would put the people at ease but have no real effect, at a time when our enemies are targeting Syria," he said.

Assad entered parliament to a mass of cheering crowds outside the building. Once inside, legislators chanted "God, Syria and Bashar only!'' and "our souls, our blood we sacrifice for you Bashar.''
He said "conspirators" have tried to reinforce sectarianism to incite hatred and "bring down Syria".

Full article http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/20113308737507793.html


It seems he didn't publicly say who these "conspirators" are, but I wouldn't have been surprised if he would have blamed "zionists" or "West". Although Assad does seem more pragmatic than, say, Ahmadinejad (Syria is after all a secular muslim country) so his rhetoric is not as extreme.

OrangeWolf
04-08-2011, 11:41 AM
Live update on Syrian demonstrations:

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=253828

m.i.t
04-08-2011, 12:55 PM
honestly wtf is happening in Syria?

.

85% Sunni majority rebels againist 15% Nusayri minority (non sunni muslim group- close to shias like Iran ) which rules country with iron fist since 1970s . Plus all sunni countries like Saudi arabia Jordan Eygpt Turkey etc . were not glad Nusayri rule in Syria.

TheEvian100
04-08-2011, 01:23 PM
My artificial intelligence says it's those darned juice, always has been.

poolboy
04-08-2011, 01:32 PM
wonder who will replace assad

OrangeWolf
04-08-2011, 01:33 PM
85% Sunni majority rebels againist 15% Nusayri minority (non sunni muslim group- close to shias like Iran ) which rules country with iron fist since 1970s . Plus all sunni countries like Saudi arabia Jordan Eygpt Turkey etc . were not glad Nusayri rule in Syria.

A bit less simple, you also have Druze, Christians (including Assyrians), Kurds. It's a rather diverse place.

m.i.t
04-08-2011, 01:36 PM
My artificial intelligence says it's those darned juice, always has been.


Nope. Sunnis cant colloborate with Israel or vice versa . Why Israel wishes sunnis instead of Assad regime .



wonder who will replace assad

l guess one of the sunni extremists . Muslim brothers has a strong branch in Syria .




A bit less simple, you also have Druze, Christians (including Assyrians), Kurds. It's a rather diverse place.


You are right . But all groups have no significance as much as sunni Araps . BTW Syrian Kurds have no citizenship rights and ID cards. they are kind of second class people in there and cant be MP or state offciers , no voting and election rights.

Octavariable
04-08-2011, 01:37 PM
And Jews, though there are no Juice in the ME, all came from Europe ;)

TheEvian100
04-08-2011, 01:45 PM
Nope. Sunnis cant colloborate with Israel or vice versa . Why Israel wishes sunnis instead of Assad regime .

You're joking, right? I was.


And Jews, though there are no Juice in the ME, all came from Europe ;)

Don't go there.
I'll go though: Juice are Juice and it's always their fault, for everything. <---- I'm joking
I won't be surprised if I see Assad with a David Star on some euro protester placard.

m.i.t
04-08-2011, 01:48 PM
You're joking, right? I was.

But Assad regime and press tried to imply this. " Israel backs rebels " .

TheEvian100
04-08-2011, 01:53 PM
But Assad regime and press tried to imply this. " Israel backs rebels " .

Yeap, there you go.
Btw thanks for this info.

"The lion of Syria vs teh evil vultures of Zion."

Makes sense propaganda-wise for Assad, what else could he claim?

Gr33kelite
04-08-2011, 01:57 PM
Well the only country i feel sorry for in the Middle East is Israel. After all these internal conflicts within their neighbouring states it might shift towards Israel!

Yu1980
04-08-2011, 01:57 PM
Alawites + other shiites make up about 13-15% of the population, christians about 10%, druze - 2-3% and sunni arabs and kurds about 73-75%

TheEvian100
04-08-2011, 01:59 PM
Well the only country i feel sorry for in the Middle East is Israel. After all these internal conflicts within their neighbouring states it might shift towards Israel!

"Shift" in what sense ?

Ordie
04-08-2011, 03:51 PM
"Shift" in what sense ?

The better the devil you know than the devil you not know.

Gregg
04-22-2011, 01:30 PM
At least 30 dead in protests as violence erupts across Syria

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/04/22/syria.unrest/?hpt=T1

Octavariable
04-22-2011, 02:40 PM
It's up to 49, BBC says 60

and in other news, Syria wants to join the UNHRC in may.

Climber
04-22-2011, 03:11 PM
UNHRC? Why not? they are experts in HR.

Moledet
04-22-2011, 03:17 PM
and in other news, Syria wants to join the UNHRC in may.
We all know the reason for ME violence is Israel.

themacedonian
04-22-2011, 03:41 PM
actually the VERY best case scenario end result of this current Middle Eastern "democracy" movement would be an Israel surrounded with states that have governments with whom Israel will not have working relationship/agreements.

That is understatement.

The other day walking in a major Sydney station I saw one of those street beggars/prophets that had a sign with a bible quote:

Luke 21:20
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near."

Now I am sure this is how it was in the 67, 73 wars. It just got me thinking.

The worst case scenario is all those states failing in their ability to please their "democratic" crowds at home and uniting under a common goal to fight Israel.

Ulytau
04-22-2011, 04:28 PM
It's up to 49, BBC says 60

and in other news, Syria wants to join the UNHRC in may.

According to *******(Via human rights organizations in Syria) death toll reach to 70 :/

PeterG
04-22-2011, 05:20 PM
The worst case scenario is all those states failing in their ability to please their "democratic" crowds at home and uniting under a common goal to fight Israel.

Or utter chaos, with no strong leaders to maintain order and status quo, and a multitude of terrorist groups trying to strike at Israel.

crush6655
04-22-2011, 05:44 PM
RIP to murdered.

Does Syria have oil ?

NATO doesn't attack it like in Lybia so I guess Syria has no oil........

Al-Bundy
04-22-2011, 05:56 PM
Or utter chaos, with no strong leaders to maintain order and status quo, and a multitude of terrorist groups trying to strike at Israel.
IMO Syria is going to follow The Libyan path.

I don't think Israel is in danger of any attack from the ensuing chaos, it will be a civil war.
In the chaos the army will fragment and loose its structure.
No one inside Syria will be able to pose any threat to any neighbor at that stage, only to themselves and maybe Lebanon. But not to Israel for many reasons.

themacedonian
04-22-2011, 05:57 PM
Or utter chaos, with no strong leaders to maintain order and status quo, and a multitude of terrorist groups trying to strike at Israel.

Yes all true.
well I do not think any of these states can turn into a Somalia or Afghanistan type of states.
There is a history of order whether being military order or some sort of hierarchical order. Who ever comes will have someone enforcing a rule.
That rule will depend on promises which they might not be able to keep.

Riots in Albania in 1997 produced leadership whose only blessing was the war in Kosovo 1998-1999.
External enemy is always nice in times of economic hardship.

KoTeMoRe
04-22-2011, 06:00 PM
Libyan path?

Security apparatus in charge-check.
Puppet leader-check.
Increasingly polarized society-check.
This is going down the Bahraini way (replace KSA and UAE with Iran).

Climber
04-22-2011, 06:03 PM
Believe it or not, I have 2 friends that live in Syria that I have known in Buenos Aires. I hope they and their families are alright.

kkbou
04-22-2011, 06:14 PM
IMO Syria is going to follow The Libyan path.

I don't think Israel is in danger of any attack from the ensuing chaos, it will be a civil war.
In the chaos the army will fragment and loose its structure.
No one inside Syria will be able to pose any threat to any neighbor at that stage, only to themselves and maybe Lebanon. But not to Israel for many reasons.

A possible way to save their regime, which both Hiz and Hamas have an interest in saving is to kick off a war with israel, this time involving syria.

Who would then oppose the regime if israeli bombers pummel damascus.

There is real risk of war now

Bloo
04-22-2011, 06:15 PM
Rather ironic a few months ago you had Assad boasting about how his regime was immune to protests because of its "policy of resistance and Arab dignity" against Israel. You had haaretz claiming it as well.

Al-Bundy
04-22-2011, 06:31 PM
Riots in Albania in 1997 produced leadership whose only blessing was the war in Kosovo 1998-1999.
External enemy is always nice in times of economic hardship.

That is the most ridiculous thing i have heard lately.
If you thing that Albania uses Serbs or "Slavs" as scapegoats for internal problems you live in a world of delusions.
Albanian politics(internal/external) do not orbit around Serbia/Kosovo issues, never did.
You must be confused with the Arabs/Israel thingy, how they blame all to Israel.

Al-Bundy
04-22-2011, 06:35 PM
A possible way to save their regime, which both Hiz and Hamas have an interest in saving is to kick off a war with israel, this time involving syria.

Who would then oppose the regime if israeli bombers pummel damascus.

There is real risk of war now

IMO Syrian people have gotten tired of that excuse, they want a regime change.
That shows from the defiance they show with their protests. So many dead yet they still go in the streets.
For how long Syrian leaderships can use Israel as a scapegoat for not having basic liberties?

KoTeMoRe
04-22-2011, 06:36 PM
No we use Greeks as scape goats (overturned naturalizations) and Serbians as a distraction (Albania to be included in Kosovo's Status negotiations) for our internal problems...not counting the way we react when people point at our sudden chauvinism.

Syrian people? Who dat? There is no "Syrian people" in this protest. Syria is just a trickier Lubnan, way too much ethnic groups protected (for good or bad) by an autocratic regime.

Plus Syria uses the Muslims far more conveniently than Israel...

Gentius
04-22-2011, 06:42 PM
No we use Greeks as scape goats (overturned naturalizations) and Serbians as a distraction (Albania to be included in Kosovo's Status negotiations) for our internal problems...not counting the way we react when people point at our sudden chauvinism.

There no such thing "status negotiations" and no Albania wasnt suppose to be included, US only.

Interesting where this will lead Assads regime, RIP to the ppl.

Al-Bundy
04-22-2011, 06:44 PM
No we use Greeks as scape goats (overturned naturalizations) and Serbians as a distraction (Albania to be included in Kosovo's Status negotiations) for our internal problems...not counting the way we react when people point at our sudden chauvinism.
Greeks I can agree about that, but Serbs no.
Half of Albania is in Greece, including me, and that rhetoric got lame years back.

Syrian people? Who dat? There is no "Syrian people" in this protest. Syria is just a trickier Lubnan, way too much ethnic groups protected (for good or bad) by an autocratic regime.
Actually Assyrian(Syrian for short) exist but now the lines and names have been blurred.
Anyway.
The majority got tired of Assad junior which is a copy paste of his authoritarian dictator father.


Plus Syria uses the Muslims far more conveniently than Israel...What do you mean?

IconOfEvi
04-22-2011, 06:48 PM
A possible way to save their regime, which both Hiz and Hamas have an interest in saving is to kick off a war with israel, this time involving syria.

Who would then oppose the regime if israeli bombers pummel damascus.

There is real risk of war now

Im sure (at least I hope) Israel has its forces on alert since the beginning of the revolutions

Also, I said months ago Syria was going to be getting the revolution eventually. No one believed me. Its a matter of time until it sweeps through like a hurricane.

The last to experience it will probably be Saudi Arabia. But it'll be something to behold

themacedonian
04-22-2011, 06:52 PM
That is the most ridiculous thing i have heard lately.
If you thing that Albania uses Serbs or "Slavs" as scapegoats for internal problems you live in a world of delusions.
Albanian politics(internal/external) do not orbit around Serbia/Kosovo issues, never did.
You must be confused with the Arabs/Israel thingy, how they blame all to Israel.

At point did I say that the Albanian government USED the Serbs as a scapegoats for their internal problems??? I did not.
Simply the attention of the population turned away from the local economic problem to the "trouble" next door. The local cottage industry in arms supply to their brothers and foreign aid that flowed within the next year did help the government keep head over water.

Al-Bundy
04-22-2011, 07:01 PM
At point did I say that the Albanian government USED the Serbs as a scapegoats for their internal problems??? I did not.
Simply the attention of the population turned away from the local economic problem to the "trouble" next door.

No one had his attention at what was going on in Yugoslavia, no one cared.
People cared only to GTFO from Albania and make a living in Greece or Italy.


The local cottage industry in arms supply to their brothers and foreign aid that flowed within the next year did help the government keep head over water.The arms were given for the same reason Bulgaria gave Fyrom weapons in 2001, ethnic ties. Don't make it too complicated.

Sorry for off topic
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to topic

Syrian developments are not going to affect Israel and people should stop flattering themselves.
Not everything that goes in the middles east is about Israel.

themacedonian
04-22-2011, 07:11 PM
No one had his attention at what was going on in Yugoslavia, no one cared.
People cared only to GTFO from Albania and make a living in Greece or Italy.

The arms were given for the same reason Bulgaria gave Fyrom weapons in 2001, ethnic ties. Don't make it too complicated.

Sorry for offtopic
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Syrian developments are not going to effect Israel and people should stop flattering themselves.
Not everything that goes in the middles east is about Israel.

note MK got military aid from Bulgaria in 1999. No aid in 2001 other than trucks tanks carriers purchased. Did you just admit that Albania supplied Kosovo with arms and at the same time saying they did NOT really cared about what happened next door? good on ya mate.

We have a saying in MK "when the bear is dancing in the neighbourhood it will come to your door as well".

Israel should be on on ready standby that is my opinion.

KoTeMoRe
04-22-2011, 07:11 PM
Gentius: You don't listen to Albanian press obviously...this is adressed to Albanians who claim we don't use external factors as scapegoats. Obviously these Albanians are wrong. We do as any one else in the region blame the neighbours.

http://lajme.shqiperia.com/lajme/artikull/iden/1046991496/titulli/Duke-pritur-qeverine-qe-e-presin-negociatat

http://www.shekulli.com.al/2011/03/18/haxhinasto-viziton-sot-kosoven.html

Scroll down to the commentaries .

Syria has been relying on the minorities far more than fueling that anti-Israel sentiment INSIDE its territory. Assad's regime has been able to take advantage of most minorities by frightening them with the whole Sunni Salafist boogeyman (Hama serving as an example). For internal consumption Islamists have been more useful than Zionists, especially given the fact that KSA ****ed up the Syrian exploitation of Lebanon by literally inventing the Hariri affair.

Al-Bundy
04-22-2011, 07:18 PM
note MK got military aid from Bulgaria in 1999. No aid in 2001 other than trucks tanks carriers purchased.
Yeah right!
Those brand new Arsenal Ak, Rpg...... came from nowhere at the precise moment.


Did you just admit that Albania supplied Kosovo with arms and at the same time saying they did NOT really cared about what happened next door? good on ya mate.Albania government gave them weapons, it is not a secret.
Albanians(people) cared about going to Greece, Italy... to make a living.
How many Albanians crossed the border in Kosovo 1999 and Fyrom 2001?


We have a saying in MK "when the bear is dancing in the neighbourhood it will come to your door as well".We are in Balkans , we have similar.
-------------------------------------------------

Israel should be on on ready standby that is my opinion.They are either way, they will be even more when things get worse in Syria.
But when things get worse in Syria no one inside Syria will have the reasons/logistics/support to waste themselves on a suicide mission against Israel.
So Israel is safe.
Syrians will be consumed in a civil war.

kkbou
04-22-2011, 07:58 PM
Im sure (at least I hope) Israel has its forces on alert since the beginning of the revolutions

Also, I said months ago Syria was going to be getting the revolution eventually. No one believed me. Its a matter of time until it sweeps through like a hurricane.

The last to experience it will probably be Saudi Arabia. But it'll be something to behold

The interesting point here is that it may be in the interests of both HIZ and Israel to allow the damascus regime to stay. The prospect for israel if the regime is overthrown may be more dangerous with the rise of the muslim brotherhood in syria to power.

SO if a war did kick off, it would be a supremely cynical and mutually beneficial one aimed at maintaining the current regime.

This will be a marriage made in hell.

Piano
04-22-2011, 09:22 PM
A possible way to save their regime, which both Hiz and Hamas have an interest in saving is to kick off a war with israel, this time involving syria.

Who would then oppose the regime if israeli bombers pummel damascus.

There is real risk of war now
I don't see how that could be in Assad's interest. Any conflict with Israel would temporarily quiet the protest movement, but he knows that soon after it ended, the protests would start again, and Assad's regime would be even weaker than before (after suffering an inevitable military defeat).


The interesting point here is that it may be in the interests of both HIZ and Israel to allow the damascus regime to stay. The prospect for israel if the regime is overthrown may be more dangerous with the rise of the muslim brotherhood in syria to power.

SO if a war did kick off, it would be a supremely cynical and mutually beneficial one aimed at maintaining the current regime.

This will be a marriage made in hell. I think that's true. The Israeli government are probably more comfortable with Assad than some of the alternatives.

Yu1980
04-23-2011, 11:07 AM
Al-Jazeera's Beirut Bureau Chief Ghassan Ben Jeddo has resigned over what he described "biased" coverage of Middle East revolutions by the Qatari-based satellite channel.
The renowned Tunisian-born journalist and television presenter tendered his resignation earlier this month for a number of reasons, most importantly Al-Jazeera's "lack of professionalism and objectivity" in covering the ongoing revolutions in Middle Eastern countries, including Yemen and Bahrain, As-Safir reported Friday.
There has been no official confirmation from Al-Jazeera management as to whether Ghassan's resignation has been accepted.
"Ghassan Ben Jeddo believes Al-Jazeera TV news channel no longer pursues an independent and unbiased policies, and quite conversely, is in pursuit of a certain type of policies regarding the brewing uprisings in the region," As-Safir reported.
The Tunisian journalist said the Qatari-based satellite channel has launched a smear campaign against the Syrian government and has turned into "a propaganda outlet," the report added.
The report added that while the station covered the events in Libya, Syria and Yemen, it barely mentioned the bloodshed in Bahrain.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/176278.html

Very well said about Al-Jazeera...

Tincap
04-23-2011, 11:27 AM
Al-Jazeera's Beirut Bureau Chief Ghassan Ben Jeddo has resigned over what he described "biased" coverage of Middle East revolutions by the Qatari-based satellite channel.
The renowned Tunisian-born journalist and television presenter tendered his resignation earlier this month for a number of reasons, most importantly Al-Jazeera's "lack of professionalism and objectivity" in covering the ongoing revolutions in Middle Eastern countries, including Yemen and Bahrain, As-Safir reported Friday.
There has been no official confirmation from Al-Jazeera management as to whether Ghassan's resignation has been accepted.
"Ghassan Ben Jeddo believes Al-Jazeera TV news channel no longer pursues an independent and unbiased policies, and quite conversely, is in pursuit of a certain type of policies regarding the brewing uprisings in the region," As-Safir reported.
The Tunisian journalist said the Qatari-based satellite channel has launched a smear campaign against the Syrian government and has turned into "a propaganda outlet," the report added.
The report added that while the station covered the events in Libya, Syria and Yemen, it barely mentioned the bloodshed in Bahrain.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/176278.html

Very well said about Al-Jazeera...

This is an interesting development. Al-Jazeera is very influential in the Middle East and is coming under increasing criticism from 'the old guard', during this Arab Spring. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that we'll soon be hearing that Al-Jazeera is a tool of the Jews.

~BG

ABU 3OMAR
04-23-2011, 04:43 PM
yesterdays death numbers were over 100
as for today, we still have no new reports last count was this afternoon it was around 30...
those are unarmed people that are being shoot just for asking for freedom. i have received tons of images of the dead and wounded, and after all my years around gun shot wounds i have never seen anything this horrible it is just scary they are even using PKM's with dumdum rounds against the ppl.

Yu1980
04-23-2011, 11:54 PM
In Syria, in fact, an armed uprising, among those killed and injured many (http://www.sana.sy/eng/21/2011/04/24/343049.htm) police and military personnel and their families. Bashar has to prove that he is a true son of his father and with an iron fist to crush the uprising.

For Syrian Christians, protests are cause for fear

DAMASCUS, Syria — In the days leading up to Easter Sunday, Syria’s Christian community should have been busy preparing. This year, however, signs of festivities were hardly visible.
Following anti-government protests that have been violently suppressed, leaving about 300 people dead, street parades and other forms of public celebration have been declared illegal by authorities.
Meanwhile, fear is mounting among the nation’s Christians that the uprising that has rocked this tightly controlled country over the past month will bring them only misery.
For decades, the government of President Bashar al-Assad has protected Christian interests by enforcing its strictly secular program and by curbing the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood. In recent years, Assad has visited the town of Maaloula and other Christian communities to pray and pass on messages of goodwill. At Christmas, he addresses Syria’s Christians, carrying similar tidings. Assad is himself from the minority Alawite sect, a branch of Shia Islam, and many Christians feel they can relate to him.
Christians, who make up about 10 percent of Syria’s population, have largely stayed out of the anti-government protests, fearing what change could bring. Many are wealthy and could have much to lose if the uprising succeeds. Christians also occupy a disproportionately high percentage of senior positions within the government and tend to work in the educated professions as doctors, dentists and engineers.
As protests have spread by demonstrators demanding Assad’s ouster and a chance for Syrians to choose their leader after decades of autocratic rule by Assad and his father, the government has claimed that it is being challenged by Islamic radicals. The demonstrators deny that, but many Christians appear to believe it.
Dozens of planned weddings in Christian villages across Damascus have been canceled for fear of attack by extremists. Christians are withdrawing funds from banks, keeping their children home from school and not venturing out to socialize.
According to a person from the Christian neighborhood of Qassaa, letters were sent to three local churches last week with the message “you’re next.” The person, who like others interviewed for this story, spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals, reported that on Friday, pro- and anti-regime demonstrators clashed in the neighborhood and shots were fired near a church.
In the town of Qatana, 20 miles southwest of Damascus, helicopters circle overhead and army trucks drive the streets. Several men from the town said terrorists from Saudi Arabia and Iraq were caught trying to detonate a bomb at a local church two weeks ago, but that claim could not be verified.
Many Christians interviewed said their biggest fear was the growth of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is banned in Syria. About half as many worshipers as usual attended Good Friday church services this year because people are afraid to leave their homes.
There are numerous Christian denominations in Syria, including Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Syriac Catholic and Greek Catholic. They share a history in these lands that dates back nearly 2,000 years.
In Aleppo, Syria’s largest city and home to a large Christian population, churchgoers are exercising caution this Easter.
Like Damascus, Aleppo has largely been bypassed by the anti-regime protests that have swept across Syria in recent weeks. But here, too, people are anxious. And online, in social networking forums such as Facebook and Twitter, they are becoming increasingly nationalistic.
“That sometimes reaches the level of attacking and insulting anyone who posts something that contains criticism of the state of affairs in Syria,” said one Armenian Christian man from the Villat area of Aleppo, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
Despite the escalating violence — more people were killed Friday than any previous day during Syria’s uprising — few Christians are talking of leaving Syria should the security situation deteriorate.
“I came back from America after 14 years to build this house and to be with my parents again,” said a Christian woman from Aleppo. “I will not leave my house, no matter what happens.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/for-syrian-christians-protests-are-cause-for-fear/2011/04/21/AFtNd3VE_story.html

squidO
04-24-2011, 01:12 AM
Bashar has to prove that he is a true son of his father and with an iron fist to crush the uprising.
And how many people he has to kill for it?
His father's record was about 30000.

OrangeWolf
04-24-2011, 04:17 AM
And how many people he has to kill for it?
His father's record was about 30000.

Way more I think. Just think about all the civilians killed in Israel and especially Lebanon thanks to the Syrian Army and its proxies.

Sootan
04-24-2011, 06:03 AM
And how many people he has to kill for it?
His father's record was about 30000.
And there will be much rejoicing here for that.

Fade
04-24-2011, 03:54 PM
I'm not going to lie, that was pretty ****ing brutal.

Al-Bundy
04-24-2011, 03:56 PM
Is definitely going for armed revolt. When the authorities respond with shoot to kill it gives the message shoot back.

Korathv2
04-24-2011, 04:23 PM
It's extremely graphic. It's not a crown control, it's plain murder. The shooting at the beginning is rather intense and by it's result - deliberate. Syria has a potential for a mess of biblical proportions. Smth. like Iraq a few years ago but potentially but more complex...

armored_diplomacy
04-24-2011, 04:32 PM
The content of that video was terrible & sad, you did good by adding a warning in red.

Why can´t they find peace?

Moledet
04-24-2011, 04:37 PM
It's extremely graphic. It's not a crown control, it's plain murder. The shooting at the beginning is rather intense and by it's result - deliberate. Syria has a potential for a mess of biblical proportions. Smth. like Iraq a few years ago but potentially but more complex...
Gonna turn into another religions war. Sunnis vs. Shi'ites vs. Allawites vs. Druze vs. Christians.

Al-Bundy
04-24-2011, 04:41 PM
Gonna turn into another religions war. Sunnis vs. Shi'ites vs. Allawites vs. Druze vs. Christians.
Kurds as well.
Few days ago Assad promised to give citizenship to the Syrian Kurds because until now they were illegals.
I wonder what made him change his mind?

IDF_TANKER
04-24-2011, 04:42 PM
Gonna turn into another religions war. Sunnis vs. Shi'ites vs. Allawites vs. Druze vs. Christians.

Or Hama #2, if/when they feel they are loosing control... what a bloody mess, poor people...

Korathv2
04-24-2011, 04:43 PM
Gonna turn into another religions war. Sunnis vs. Shi'ites vs. Allawites vs. Druze vs. Christians.

Please do not forget Kurds. On top of it you may also like to add a touch of foreign context with Iranian influence, Israeli concern, Turkey's fears, Lebanese mess, Saudi interest, not to mention Russia, Europe and States adding their 2 cents. In other words, Libya is peanuts.

tanks_alot
04-24-2011, 04:57 PM
That video was horrible, had me cringing... RIP.

On another note, during the video you can see a man wearing military uniform pants, but a civilian shirt. soldiers are starting to desert?

Spezz
04-24-2011, 05:11 PM
Damn, just when you think you have seen everything, on the internet, you see a man who's still alive missing half his face. Poor guy.
Some serious **** is about to go down in that region, this is just the beginning.

AttilaA
04-24-2011, 06:05 PM
That video was brutal. How can someone do this to its own people.

KoTeMoRe
04-24-2011, 06:28 PM
Turkishmilitary: same as with all dictatorships. It's me over you.

Ulytau
04-24-2011, 06:35 PM
I really wonder about they have no idea about their OWN people?Protesters who lost their relatives (even as i read they called soldiers at their brothers and explain why they protest) gonna forget what happen and shut up?

The Dane
04-24-2011, 06:45 PM
Horrible video..
Godspeed to the Syrian people.

squidO
04-24-2011, 06:54 PM
The video makes me wish to see Baby Assad's face smashed in the same way...

kalerab
04-24-2011, 06:56 PM
I really wonder about they have no idea about their OWN people?Protesters who lost their relatives (even as i read they called soldiers at their brothers and explain why they protest) gonna forget what happen and shut up?

No, they´re going to give them choice either to shut up or disappear. If they´re lucky that is. Simple way of all dictatorships - once people rise up they´ll better to finish the job otherwise they´re going to be crushed under dictators feet. Either way, blood is going to be spilled. Now we can only hope that there are those within the army and Baath party which have some sense of the reason and will appeal to Bashar to step down.

OrangeWolf
04-24-2011, 07:00 PM
I for one hope Assad and his clique will find themselves hanging lifelessly upside down in a Damascus garage.

alexz
04-24-2011, 09:54 PM
First Syrian tanks and infantry storm protest centers

Bashar Assad's tanks and infantry made their first assaults Sunday, April 24 on Jableh on the Mediterranean and Daraa in the south, after a 48-hour bloodbath by his security forces claiming up to 350 lives failed break the five-week countrywide uprising against his rule. Video-clips show tanks converging on the two towns with soldiers running in their wake while heavy gunfire continued to resound in Hama, al-Nuaimeh near Daraa and Saraqeb, southwest of Aleppo.

http://www.debka.com/article/20870/

Yes it is from Debka, which is been by far the most reliable source on what's going on in the Arab revoults.
So before the "I didn't read in in the NY times, so it can't be true" crowd says anything about Debka, here is the Video of the Syrian tank approaching the town.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=161132893947745

Climber
04-24-2011, 10:02 PM
****! poor people.
Thats was just terrible.

Fade
04-24-2011, 10:10 PM
Really made me think today about my freedom, and if I would have the same courage these poor people did. May they rest in peace.

Thousands call for Assad overthrow at Syria funeral
By SULEIMAN AL-KHALIDI, *******

Thousands of Syrians called for the overthrow of President Bashar al-Assad on Sunday at a funeral for protesters killed by security forces in the southern town of Nawa, a witness said.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2011/04/24/18060006.html

themacedonian
04-24-2011, 10:17 PM
another country going down the drain. Do they actually realise that life for egyptians did not really change? One rule will be replaced with another rule.

donllano
04-24-2011, 10:17 PM
Horrible, horrible video! The real sad part is that NATO is already commited to that other hellhole, Libya, so they are basically on their own...

Alfacentori
04-24-2011, 10:27 PM
That's some brutal stuff right there. Welcome to the Middle East, what else can you say.

Alfa

themacedonian
04-24-2011, 10:44 PM
so what is next?

UN resolution.
Sanctions.
An approval from the Arab world
No fly zone of course
Coalition of the willing.

alexz
04-25-2011, 01:02 AM
so what is next?

UN resolution.
Sanctions.
An approval from the Arab world
No fly zone of course
Coalition of the willing.

Perhaps those will be the conditions Syria will try to impose on Israel or NATO, once its elected to the UN security council.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-harris/code-red-syria-could-soon_b_852976.html

Excalibur
04-25-2011, 02:48 AM
Assad will kill hundreds, thousands and if necessary tens of thousands of his citizens, but his regime will survive. and it's not just about him, his surrounding alawi military elite will force him to do so.
i wish i'm wrong. :-(

500
04-25-2011, 05:02 AM
In Syria, in fact, an armed uprising, among those killed and injured many (http://www.sana.sy/eng/21/2011/04/24/343049.htm) police and military personnel and their families. Bashar has to prove that he is a true son of his father and with an iron fist to crush the uprising.

For Syrian Christians, protests are cause for fear
Church bells ring in solidarity with killed in Daraa:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUKoSsbG9bE

Alex G
04-25-2011, 06:23 AM
Syrian troops sweep into Deraa and Douma
Reports of shooting and heavy armour on the streets as Syrian soldiers join crackdown against anti-government protests.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/04/20114255333825461.html

Yu1980
04-25-2011, 06:27 AM
It seems the Syrian authorities will no longer tolerate the constant attacks (http://www.sana.sy/eng/21/2011/04/24/343105.htm) of militants on the military, police perconal etc.
In the Deraa has started military operation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVD9wpagszs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyuGaO2I0lE

shelata
04-25-2011, 06:31 AM
Church bells ring in solidarity with killed in Daraa:
RIP for the victims irrespect of thier religion. The criminals who are shooting the protestors all-over Syria should be held & punished for thier disgracefull acts

80 EAN
04-25-2011, 06:31 AM
It seems the Syrian authorities will no longer tolerate the constant attacks (http://www.sana.sy/eng/21/2011/04/24/343105.htm) of militants on the military, police perconal etc.
In the Deraa has started military operation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVD9wpagszs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyuGaO2I0lE


Regime sounds better....

Avigo
04-25-2011, 06:32 AM
The situation in Syria differs from any other uprising that happened in Arab countries in the past months, the vast majority of the population in Syria want Bashar El Assad to remain in power, that's why its hard to overthrow his regime.

IDF_TANKER
04-25-2011, 06:35 AM
The situation in Syria differs from any other uprising that happened in Arab countries in the past months, the vast majority of the population in Syria want Bashar El Assad to remain in power, that's why its hard to overthrow his regime.

Really? Sorry, but how do you know that? It sounds strange to me that Sunni majority would want an Alawi regime (headed by whomever).

The Dane
04-25-2011, 06:40 AM
The situation in Syria differs from any other uprising that happened in Arab countries in the past months, the vast majority of the population in Syria want Bashar El Assad to remain in power, that's why its hard to overthrow his regime.

Bull**** .. NONE of those regimes in the middle east got a majority behind them.

Atlantic Friend
04-25-2011, 06:50 AM
so what is next?

UN resolution.
Sanctions.
An approval from the Arab world
No fly zone of course
Coalition of the willing.

Oh, no, I think you'll be happy with the next moves for once : do nothing, deplore the killings, watch Assad crush his opposition and hang leaders on meathooks, read about the future exploits of Baathist Syria and its friends.

Gregg
04-25-2011, 06:57 AM
Any fears of Allawites massacre in case of a successful revolution?

It's seems **** gonna fly around in either case...

IDF_TANKER
04-25-2011, 07:13 AM
Any fears of Allawites massacre in case of a successful revolution?

It's seems **** gonna fly around in either case...

I don't think so. Even in their seemingly chaotic spontaneous nature these massacres have their logic and purpose. There would be no purpose to massacre Alawits after victory. Eventually they'll have to live together. Also it's important to remember that after Hama's massacre there was a tremendous investment by Assad regime into the Sunni's welfare - he built hospitals, schools, infrastructure... above the mass graves of Hama victims(metaphorically or not). It all makes sense... in ME kinda way.

kkbou
04-25-2011, 07:24 AM
That video was horrible, had me cringing... RIP.

On another note, during the video you can see a man wearing military uniform pants, but a civilian shirt. soldiers are starting to desert?

Couldn't watch past 2 minutes. Poor sods.

I sincerely hope once all this blood letting is over, the region will come to its senses.

kkbou
04-25-2011, 07:29 AM
The situation in Syria differs from any other uprising that happened in Arab countries in the past months, the vast majority of the population in Syria want Bashar El Assad to remain in power, that's why its hard to overthrow his regime.

Go look at that video 2 pages back.

Would you like to be ruled by these wankers?

Andy_UA
04-25-2011, 07:34 AM
Nobody is gonna bomb them. Theyr SAM network is in far better shape than Libya's they got 25 Pantsir-S, Yakhonts etc. There is Russian navy base there too BTW...

kkbou
04-25-2011, 07:35 AM
I don't think so. Even in their seemingly chaotic spontaneous nature these massacres have their logic and purpose. There would be no purpose to massacre Alawits after victory. Eventually they'll have to live together. Also it's important to remember that after Hama's massacre there was a tremendous investment by Assad regime into the Sunni's welfare - he built hospitals, schools, infrastructure... above the mass graves of Hama victims(metaphorically or not). It all makes sense... in ME kinda way.

It won't be about purpose or rationality. 40 years of an alawite police state with torture, rampant corruption and the odd massacre here in there will translate into revenge.

I would have gone along with your premise had this current crackdown not happened. If there were dramatic reforms from the off, then I could see how forgiveness would have been part of the solution. I don't see how it can be a happy
ending for the alawites. The massacres the leadership are committing now are just another roll of the dice.

IDF_TANKER
04-25-2011, 07:37 AM
Let's hope for the best...

The Dane
04-25-2011, 07:44 AM
Nobody is gonna bomb them. Theyr SAM network is in far better shape than Libya's they got 25 Pantsir-S, Yakhonts etc. There is Russian navy base there too BTW...

Their SAM network wont stop NATO/US if they decide to bomb.
And they will off course not bomb any foreign installations, i'm sure Russia will get a phone call before the bombs falls to insure them their security.. don't worry.

kalerab
04-25-2011, 07:45 AM
12:31am


An eyewitness told Al Jazeera about officers and soldiers in Deraa defecting from the Syrian army and now battling that army along with the residents.

So, what now? Are we looking on another civil war?

The Dane
04-25-2011, 07:47 AM
12:31am



So, what now? Are we looking on another civil war?

It sure looks like it ..

kkbou
04-25-2011, 07:51 AM
Their SAM network wont stop NATO/US if they decide to bomb.
And they will off course not bomb any foreign installations, i'm sure Russia will get a phone call before the bombs falls to insure them their security.. don't worry.



There will be no hope of foreign intervention.

The only hope for the Syrian people is if a significant portion of the army turns against its masters.

Yu1980
04-25-2011, 07:54 AM
Syria closes all land border crossings with Jordan

Herman the II
04-25-2011, 07:57 AM
Send in the Marines and finish that Assad SOB once and for all.

kalerab
04-25-2011, 07:59 AM
There will be no hope of foreign intervention.

The only hope for the Syrian people is if a significant portion of the army turns against its masters.

No western intervention, that´s for sure. Europe and United States have full hands dealing with Libya but what about Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon, under UN mandate they could send their troops into the Syria.

Andy_UA
04-25-2011, 08:00 AM
Send in the Marines and finish that Assad SOB once and for all.

HAHAHA! Very funny..

Herman the II
04-25-2011, 08:05 AM
HAHAHA! Very funny..

How so? Would be a god chance to form the region according to our plans. Assad gone would be a good thing, even for the Israelis. See how the crowd in Libya cheers for the USA and Europe, why shouldn't we do the same in Syria? The troops are there, just send them in.

kkbou
04-25-2011, 08:06 AM
No western intervention, that´s for sure. Europe and United States have full hands dealing with Libya but what about Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon, under UN mandate they could send their troops into the Syria.

Forget about Lebanon doing anything. A significant portion of lebanese (i.e. Hiz) have it in its interests to keep the current regime in power in syria.

Jordan won't do ****. They are just a syria lite.

Turkey. Well their attitude to what has happened in libya was hardly pro rebel and it would be safe to assume their attitude may be the same wrt syria.

I am sorry to say we are going to thousands of dead syrians

The Dane
04-25-2011, 08:08 AM
How so? Would be a god chance to form the region according to our plans. Assad gone would be a good thing, even for the Israelis. See how the crowd in Libya cheers for the USA and Europe, why shouldn't we do the same in Syria? The troops are there, just send them in.

I think the economical situation says "no"..

JGXL836
04-25-2011, 08:09 AM
No western intervention, that´s for sure. Europe and United States have full hands dealing with Libya but what about Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon, under UN mandate they could send their troops into the Syria.

Lebanon? Are you kidding?

Silent Reader
04-25-2011, 08:12 AM
the only way to get some international involvement would if if it gets much worse than it already is... but then again this might become a new reason to stay away since it might be another case of somalia trauma.

also you can only act in so many arab countries before some people over there call this a new crusade against muslims etc..

also a difference is that - no matter how legitimate it is - in Lybia there is a rebel government which asked for help. so far we do not have anything like this in Syria

JGXL836
04-25-2011, 08:17 AM
Assad gone would be a good thing, even for the Israelis. See how the crowd in Libya cheers for the USA and Europe, why shouldn't we do the same in Syria?

The crowd in Libya accused Qaddafi of being an evil zionist, a puppet of Israel.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPtSqJYFsGfa5T1rd35DB3j6FfAP6nhQi9xdhObjPi5-_AcyuZ http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTLbLQcGB1kG_g0PoIyBCS7h9Z3KtqpVJGimsJQ6VU-1AMR08j

kalerab
04-25-2011, 08:31 AM
Lebanon? Are you kidding?

Yeah, I know about Hezbollah but majority in parliament is held by March 14 alliance which former PM was assassinated by Syria. I admit that my knowledge about Lebanese government and electoral process goes only so far, but I know that Lebanese-Syrian relations are tricky.

JGXL836
04-25-2011, 08:36 AM
Yeah, I know about Hezbollah but majority in parliament is held by March 14 alliance which former PM was assassinated by Syria. I admit that my knowledge about Lebanese government and electoral process goes only so far, but I know that Lebanese-Syrian relations are tricky.

Even if the Lebanese government was a 100% democratic, anti-Syrian, human-rights-lovin' e.t.c, the Lebanese army has nothing stop Assad with or without UN support.

Herman the II
04-25-2011, 08:37 AM
The crowd in Libya accused Qaddafi of being an evil zionist, a puppet of Israel.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPtSqJYFsGfa5T1rd35DB3j6FfAP6nhQi9xdhObjPi5-_AcyuZ http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTLbLQcGB1kG_g0PoIyBCS7h9Z3KtqpVJGimsJQ6VU-1AMR08j

Sure, some people in the streets might think that way. However Im quite sure that whoever aids the rebellions will have a good stance with the future government once the rebellion succeeds.
A once in a lifetime chance in the Arab world. Who do you think will get all the future contracts in Lybia? Surley not the Chinese or Russians...
Why not do the same with Syria?

Akuma
04-25-2011, 08:38 AM
The Lebanese army cannot ensure total control over Lebanese territory,let alone intervene in Syria.If there was any interest in overthrowing Assad by the neighbourhood we would have witnessed more direct action by now.

At this stage any direct international intervention will follow an alternation in the status on the ground.

Andy_UA
04-25-2011, 08:39 AM
Surley not the Chinese or Russians...

When Uncle Sam away, who's gonna help you?

Herman the II
04-25-2011, 08:41 AM
Surley not the Chinese or Russians...



When Uncle Sam away, who's gonna help you?Surley not the Chinese or Russians... ;)

JGXL836
04-25-2011, 08:46 AM
Sure, some people in the streets might think that way. However Im quite sure that whoever aids the rebellions will have a good stance with the future government once the rebellion succeeds.
A once in a lifetime chance in the Arab world. Who do you think will get all the future contracts in Lybia? Surley not the Chinese or Russians...
Why not do the same with Syria?

US aided the Iraqi rebels against Saddam Hussein, however the Iraqis still hate Israel.

No matter how this crowd cheers for the USA and Europe, this crowd will keep hating not China nor Russia, but Israel.

The Dane
04-25-2011, 08:47 AM
Well, European NATO still have some capacities to offer if memberstates could agree to use it.. Luftwaffe to name one.

Herman the II
04-25-2011, 08:48 AM
US aided the Iraqi rebels against Saddam Hussein, however the Iraqis still hate Israel.

...but their government would never attack Israel as Saddam did. The new Iraq plays along "our" rules.

JGXL836
04-25-2011, 08:55 AM
...but their government would never attack Israel as Saddam did. The new Iraq plays along "our" rules.

Yes, as long as "you" keep control on it.

Assad is a SOB, but if the Syrian people will get rid of him, with or without foreign support, an Al-Qaeda / Muslim Brotherhood state could emerge, unless somebody with constant presence on Syrian soil makes sure it will never happen.

Israel has no intention to take control of Syria if Assad is gone.

The Dane
04-25-2011, 09:05 AM
Yes, as long as "you" keep control on it.

Assad is a SOB, but if the Syrian people will get rid of him, with or without foreign support, an Al-Qaeda / Muslim Brotherhood state could emerge, unless somebody with constant presence on Syrian soil makes sure it will never happen.



Or go the other way and break relations with the terroristgroups in the region.. it's hard to know.

Alex G
04-25-2011, 09:07 AM
It seems that Herman the German either wishes for new colonizing of the region or for terror over it. But what he certainly wishes for is for more dead European and US soldiers as they will certainly die if NATO would have to intervene in Syria and every single country in region. Think for what you wish for a moment.

kkbou
04-25-2011, 09:07 AM
Yes, as long as "you" keep control on it.

Assad is a SOB, but if the Syrian people will get rid of him, with or without foreign support, an Al-Qaeda / Muslim Brotherhood state could emerge, unless somebody with constant presence on Syrian soil makes sure it will never happen.

Israel has no intention to take control of Syria if Assad is gone.

The worry here, is if the regime does get more bloody, the probability of al qaeda joining the mix increases. BTW- MB are poles apart from the salafism of AQ.

Silent Reader
04-25-2011, 09:08 AM
with all the revolutions going on in that part of the world.. and hoping that those in Lybia and Syria will be successful as well.. I think it is realistic to say that it is not unlikely that at least one or two of them will turn out well.. sure some might fall back in old habits... but if one or two can set an example they might have a long term effect on the region

JGXL836
04-25-2011, 09:11 AM
Or go the other way and break relations with the terroristgroups in the region.. it's hard to know.

It's really hard to know.


''Bloodbath' would follow overthrow of Assad in Syria'

By YAAKOV LAPPIN (yaakovl@jpost.com)
04/21/2011 00:53

Observers tell the 'Post' that like Iraq, Syria’s diverse sects could turn on each other once the regime is gone.

The overthrow of Syrian dictator Basher Assad is not yet imminent, but should it occur, a bloodbath between Syria’s various sects would likely follow, leading Israeli experts on Syria told The Jerusalem Post on Wednesday.

As in neighboring Iraq, Syria’s diverse population – made up of Sunni Muslims, Druse, Kurds and other groups, who are ruled by the minority Alawites – could, upon the collapse of the Assad regime, turn on each other in a bloody civil conflict.

“I think there would be a bloodbath if Assad falls. The Iraqi situation is relevant,” said Eyal Zisser, a professor of Middle Eastern and African History at Tel Aviv University (http://newstopics.jpost.com/topic/Tel_Aviv_University).

Zisser, who formerly headed the university’s Moshe Dayan Center Middle East think tank added, “We’re not there yet. The protests are however getting bigger, and more and more forces are joining in. They are spreading to other parts of the country.”

At the same time, around half of the Syrian population, concentrated in the major urban centers of Damascus and Aleppo, are “sitting on the fence” and not taking an active part in protests calling for Assad to leave.

“They are frightened of the unknown, and of the anarchy that could follow,” Zisser added.

Asked how important a role Islamist groups were playing in recent events, Zisser said, “We must remember that 40 percent of Syrians are members of minority groups. This means it is not easy for Islamists to take over. They are there as a political force, but they don’t have exclusive control.”

From an Israeli perspective, decision-makers have grown accustomed to “the Satan that we know,” Zisser said, referring to Assad.

Assad “gave us stability in the Golan – but he also tightened relations with Hezbollah and Iran,” he noted.

Dr. Mordechai Kedar, of Bar Ilan University’s Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies, said that “everything we knew” about Syria has become outdated due to recent events.

Kedar, who served for 25 years in military intelligence, and specialized in Syria, added that the Muslim Brotherhood (http://newstopics.jpost.com/topic/Muslim_Brotherhood) “are in the background, not as an organized group... but as an idea.”

Kedar agreed with Zisser’s evaluation that a collapse of the Assad regime would result in large-scale violence, adding that Syria could split up into smaller states following civil strife.

In such a scenario, “many Muslims will chase Alawites with knives – who would in turn have to flee to the Ansariya mountains in western Syria, their traditional lands,” Kedar said. “In such a case, Syria could be divided into six parts: an Alawite state in the West; a Kurdish state in the North, as in Iraq; a Druse state in the South; and a Beduin state in the east, in the Dir al-Zur region. A Sunni Muslim state in Damascus and another in Aleppo could also rise” he added.

“Six homogenous states could appear on the ruins of Syria,” Kedar said.

The analyst has described Assad’s move to cancel longstanding emergency laws, which have been in place for 50 years, as “late, small, and unsatisfactory.”

“The Syrians are jealous of their brothers in Egypt and Tunisia – but fear that the regime will act as Gaddafi (http://newstopics.jpost.com/topic/Muammar_al-Gaddafi) has, and slaughter its citizens, if his back is against the wall,” said Kedar.http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=217338

The Dane
04-25-2011, 09:15 AM
with all the revolutions going on in that part of the world.. and hoping that those in Lybia and Syria will be successful as well.. I think it is realistic to say that it is not unlikely that at least one or two of them will turn out well.. sure some might fall back in old habits... but if one or two can set an example they might have a long term effect on the region

I think there's hope for Libya.
Syria only if they also gets support from the outside.. Assad seems to have learned well from his father, brutality works.

Herman the II
04-25-2011, 09:25 AM
It seems that Herman the German either wishes for new colonizing of the region or for terror over it. But what he certainly wishes for is for more dead European and US soldiers as they will certainly die if NATO would have to intervene in Syria and every single country in region. Think for what you wish for a moment.

Why more dead soldiers? So far none of our soldiers has died during the Libyan intervention. The only ones that die at the moment are the locals in the region, be it Syria or Libya. Thats because their rulers suppress them with terror. I dont wish for terror in the region as its already there. Assad is killing his people just like GaGa did.

The Dane
04-25-2011, 09:28 AM
Worst case scenarium.. If the rebels wins and Assad is overthrown and a MB/AQ regime takes over.. does Syria's military pose a serious threat to Israel ? And would such a regime change not more or less mean active US military support for sure ??

If so.. why not support the rebels and hope that the moderate and democratic seeking people will take over instead(like in Tunesia and Egypt).. i know it's a gamble, but i think the Syrian people should get the chance to show what they really want.

Herman the II
04-25-2011, 09:31 AM
If so.. why not support the rebels and hope that the moderate and democratic seeking people will take over instead(like in Tunesia and Egypt).. i know it's a gamble, but i think the Syrian people should get the chance to show what they really want.

Thats exactly what I'm thinking. If we would have supported the Libyan rebels from the very beginning the whole thing would be over by now and GaGa dead or in a cell.

squidO
04-25-2011, 09:36 AM
''Bloodbath' would follow overthrow of Assad in Syria'
May follow, may not follow... It's just speculations.

kalerab
04-25-2011, 09:38 AM
It's really hard to know.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=217338

Good point, however what about Alawite role in this uprising? Are they also demonstrating against the regime or are they just waiting till its all over?

The Dane
04-25-2011, 09:43 AM
2:34pm
The top United Nations human rights official called on Syria to rein in its security forces and investigate nearly 100 killings of protesters reported over the weekend. UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay denounced the escalation of violence in the country and called for detained activists and political prisoners to be released.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/middle-east/syria-live-blog-april-25

Alex G
04-25-2011, 09:48 AM
Why more dead soldiers? So far none of our soldiers has died during the Libyan intervention. The only ones that die at the moment are the locals in the region, be it Syria or Libya. Thats because their rulers suppress them with terror. I dont wish for terror in the region as its already there. Assad is killing his people just like GaGa did.

So far nothing was archived in Lybia. To end conflict there on our terms we would have to send troops - otherwise this conflict can either last forever or Rebels would loose.

JGXL836
04-25-2011, 09:51 AM
Worst case scenarium.. If the rebels wins and Assad is overthrown and a MB/AQ regime takes over.. does Syria's military pose a serious threat to Israel ? And would such a regime change not more or less mean active US military support for sure ??

If so.. why not support the rebels and hope that the moderate and democratic seeking people will take over instead(like in Tunesia and Egypt).. i know it's a gamble, but i think the Syrian people should get the chance to show what they really want.

Syria is unable to win a war against Israel, but they have more than enough to inflict thousands of civilian casualties in Israeli cities. Assad is a SOB, but not a fanatic like MB/AQ.

Feel free to support the rebels, but it is not a win-win situation. You may find out that the Syrian people really want Jihad.

JGXL836
04-25-2011, 09:55 AM
Good point, however what about Alawite role in this uprising? Are they also demonstrating against the regime or are they just waiting till its all over?

Alawites demonstrating against their own regime? o_O Alawites ARE the regime.

kalerab
04-25-2011, 10:05 AM
Alawites demonstrating against their own regime? o_O Alawites ARE the regime.

As far as I´m aware Baath party is secular and is trying to keep balance among all sects in Syria. Or at least was trying.

JGXL836
04-25-2011, 10:10 AM
As far as I´m aware Baath party is secular and is trying to keep balance among all sects in Syria. Or at least was trying.

Baath party (and Syrian army, of course) is ruled exclusively by Alawites. Secularism insures that Alawites are safe among heretic-persecuting Sunnis.