Lucky Photo - View of LGB hitting near Shrine In Najaf

[BlackRain]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040823/capt.mac10208231309.iraq_najaf_mac102.jpg

An aerial bomb descends toward a target in Najaf, Iraq, Monday Aug. 23, 2004, after two bombs were dropped from high altitudes by U.S. aircraft. Sporadic, but heavy fighting continued overnight and into the day Monday.

[Scaar.at]

has been posted in the today pictures already. but still a good photo

[sergey31]

That is the way I want to die when I'm over 80 or so..... Looking right at the thing flying straight into my retirment apartment room.
What a sight !

[LordHalbert]

Is that real or photochop?

[AFG]

probably real


http://accuweather.ap.org/apdbs/Intl_Photos/views/mini/7425/7425579.jpg

[perdurabo]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040823/capt.mac10208231309.iraq_najaf_mac102.jpg

An aerial bomb descends toward a target in Najaf, Iraq, Monday Aug. 23, 2004, after two bombs were dropped from high altitudes by U.S. aircraft. Sporadic, but heavy fighting continued overnight and into the day Monday.
mail delivery! is Sadr home? no? then we leave him a message... :lol:

[GAFES]

Usin bombs to fight militia? :roll:

[Herrmannek]

Usin bombs to fight militia? :roll:
And what you want? Flowers....

[GAFES]

Well its kind of strange, this is not the russian army. They are just guys with rpg and aks. Theres no need to use bombs. The marines ( the few the proud ) can handle those clowns, am i right?

[Argyll]

Well its kind of strange, this is not the russian army. They are just guys with rpg and aks. Theres no need to use bombs. The marines ( the few the proud ) can handle those clowns, am i right?

You mean just like Grozny? p-)

[Old300]

Well its kind of strange, this is not the russian army. They are just guys with rpg and aks. Theres no need to use bombs. The marines ( the few the proud ) can handle those clowns, am i right?

These forums are (or were, at least) replete with obscure military rivalries: Swedes and Finns, Finns and Russians, Russians and lots and lots of little countries. The list goes on.

Well, here's another: Texans and Mexicans.

And so, without further ado, let me say on behalf of all Texans everywhere: when it comes to giving the US military tactical advice, y'all need to go ahead and shut up now.

Thanks.

[GAFES]

Im sorry, but i didnt understand your comment. Texans and Mexicans? . Mexico never sent troops to irak,so what do we Mexicans have to do with this topic?

:roll:

[AFG]

Well its kind of strange, this is not the russian army. They are just guys with rpg and aks. Theres no need to use bombs. The marines ( the few the proud ) can handle those clowns, am i right?

its kinda hard for the Marines to win when they are forced to fight almost with both arms tied thanks to the ROE.

[platform389]

Well its kind of strange, this is not the russian army. They are just guys with rpg and aks. Theres no need to use bombs. The marines ( the few the proud ) can handle those clowns, am i right?

You're right, it's not the Russian Army...

Americans have always consider the expenditure of things and treasure a much better way of warfighting rather than expenditure of blood.

It is far less expensive in American life to send this one bomb to kill everyone in building rather than digging them out floor by floor.

Besides the I doubt the Russians have a significant PGM capability to use in a situation such as this. Their performance in Chechnya and Afghanistan certainly provides enough evidence.

[aartamen]

Quite surprisingly they did have PGM capability as far back as 1980's, and still do. THey used quided artillery shells in A-stan. See your own comment about relative priorities of treasure and blood.

[Midav]

Well its kind of strange, this is not the russian army. They are just guys with rpg and aks. Theres no need to use bombs. The marines ( the few the proud ) can handle those clowns, am i right?

I hope we fight more people with your type of thinking.

Why always fight a fair one on one battle? If the time and place allows it, dominate your enemy.

However, as is, most battles take place soldier to insurgent, because of the PR thing. If this were a true all out war, Najaf would no longer be standing.

However, we know what that would lead to.

[gilgoul]

Well its kind of strange, this is not the russian army. They are just guys with rpg and aks. Theres no need to use bombs. The marines ( the few the proud ) can handle those clowns, am i right?


let`s not draw conclusions, launching a few precision guided munitions on terrorists strong points has nothing to do with the systematic artillery shelling and aerial pounding that litteraly flatened parts of grozny.
So far, the coalition forces seem to have shown great restrain in their treatment of Sadr militia and payed a lot of attention not to harm too much the surrounding.

[platform389]

Quite surprisingly they did have PGM capability as far back as 1980's, and still do. THey used quided artillery shells in A-stan. See your own comment about relative priorities of treasure and blood.

Hmmm, would seem the results didn't exactly turn out they way they planned. In addition to being less expensive in your own side's lives, using a technological response provides consistent results. That incoming bomb in the photo can't be stopped or pushed back like CQB troops possibly could.

Storming the building with troops well aware their own side really doesn't care about them is a risky way to achieve national objectives. The Russian experience in both places is ample evidence of failed national objectives.

The Russians themselves are deeply concerned that Precision Weapons are going to completely obsolete their current generation of weapons. Refer to the book "Desert Storm And Its Meaning, The Russian View".

[aartamen]

I did not say that was a good approach. Russian veterans of the first Chechen compaign wrote, in what little was published, that they felt awful about the treatment they got.

But the use of PGMs vs "gravity guided munitions" goes further than respect for your own side's lives.

Would like to, who's the author[s]? Is this it - Desert Storm and its Meaning- The View from Moscow. This report assesses how Russian defense experts have drawn policy-useful conclusions from Operation Desert Storm. 1992.
R-4164-AF

[Hiroshima]

Well, with the current rate of 'smart' munitions are being made, it'll be a short time till stuff that will jam or even subvert control of those munitions is created...nothing like having that GPS guided bomb somehow land on something you'd rather not have it land on just because someone on the far side of town has a map, a fansy gadget, and your signals.

[Midav]

Well, with the current rate of 'smart' munitions are being made, it'll be a short time till stuff that will jam or even subvert control of those munitions is created...nothing like having that GPS guided bomb somehow land on something you'd rather not have it land on just because someone on the far side of town has a map, a fansy gadget, and your signals.

Perhaps. But that isn't going to be today. Until then, they're gonna be used ;)

[Hiroshima]

Very very true! And used to good effect if our soldiers can remember where they are and where the nemeis are when entering the targeting info. Donno, soulds like that'd be kinda hard to do under fire with that stupid little pen...

[He219]

And so, without further ado, let me say on behalf of all Texans everywhere: when it comes to giving the US military tactical advice, y'all need to go ahead and shut up now.

Thanks. rofl
Classic!

btw, looks like those blokes inside the (shown) building survived.

http://accuweather.ap.org/apdbs/Intl_Photos/views/mini/7425/7425712.jpg
Before:
http://accuweather.ap.org/apdbs/Intl_Photos/views/mini/7425/7425579.jpg
After:

Strike area is out of view ...
;)

[aartamen]

If anything like that develops, there are already guidance modes that rely on on-board GPS trackers and after release stear inertially, or get updates from the platform.

[Midav]

Popular Mechanics had an article last year about new mini atomic clocks being installed in future PGM's, just in case lasers and GPS get jammed/distorted.

Testing is slated to start next year, I believe.

[Hiroshima]

Well...how would it be able to tell where it's going if the feed to the GPS sat signal is being jammed or subverted?

[Midav]

Well...how would it be able to tell where it's going if the feed to the GPS sat signal is being jammed or subverted?

Simple. It's programmed into an on board computer with no external guidance. Pictures also help and what the TLAM still uses I believe.

What the atomic clock does is increase accuracy to a greater level. Instead of measuring in meters, it's measured in centimeters.

[Hiroshima]

Ahh...I see....ok, what about if somethign along the lines of a EM field is developed then...totally hypothetical, but still possible with enough energy...would our toys be shielded against that?

[AFACadet]

Midav, the atomic clock does jack. Why? For the simple reason that EVERY GPS device ever created uses an atomic clock, and thus adding one would be redundant. Thats the whole reason GPS devices work, they measure the time differences between the atomic clocks.

For everyone else: You all DO know that GPS JDAMs (and all other GPS guided weapons for that matter), don't use GPS as the primary guidence?

JDAMs use INS's to get the bomb from one place to the other. The GPS updates the INS on the way to the target if need be. If the GPS signals are jammed, the CEP gos from something like 8 feet to 20 feet.

I would still consider that extremely accurate.


Furthermore, pilots know when their GPS signals are being jammed, the Air Force knows exactly how it happens, and since the jammers are active, their location can be found pretty quickly.

If you notice the pictures from A-Stan or Iraq, the aircraft are flying with a combination of weapons. Under one wing is a JDAM, under the other are two LGBs. If the weather is bad, or you need to kill a very large target, use the JDAM. If the target is smaller, moving, or you need to be extremely accurate, use one of LGBs.

[Hiroshima]

Afganistand didn't have anything that could be concidered a jammer, the weapons they were carrying were more for thier 'Ok, that's destroyed, but now another target is called in, and I need to use this to kill it'.

I wouldn't put it past anyone to mount it on something that is easilly mobil or even put it into a fortified position where it'll come down to can we kill it right off the bat, or after we scoot past it, will a hundred little militamen with AA weapons try to take me down? Do the insurgents even have Anti-Aircraft stuff?

[AFACadet]

That's why you drop the PGMs from above 15,000 feet so they AA weapons don't have a very good chance of touching you.

[MEGR]

Afganistand didn't have anything that could be concidered a jammer, the weapons they were carrying were more for thier 'Ok, that's destroyed, but now another target is called in, and I need to use this to kill it'.

I wouldn't put it past anyone to mount it on something that is easilly mobil or even put it into a fortified position where it'll come down to can we kill it right off the bat, or after we scoot past it, will a hundred little militamen with AA weapons try to take me down? Do the insurgents even have Anti-Aircraft stuff?

Insurgents do have AA stuff. They have portable SAMS. SA-7s I think they are called.

[Hiroshima]

Ahh...ok, now lets say the enemy has those new anti missile and artillary shell systems that we have (don't doubt it, concidering we sell our stuff all over the world)....how would you counter that?

[AFACadet]

We don't have any yet and they aren't even close to haveing one. Either way they are big, and would be a perfect for a high flying AC-130.

[Midav]

AFACadet-- Don't shoot the messenger. Just repeating what I read, because GPS jammers are going to become more common.

They developed a matchbox sized atomic clock, which they can put into the munition itself, and completely independent from GPS.

I apologize I can't find the article online.

If you want to continue that it's not possible or whatever, send your disagreement to Popular Mechanics (http://popularmechanics.com/)

:)

[AFACadet]

Sorry if I came off like that to you. PM and PS really do suck in regard to military technologies, especially aircraft. Most of what they report is incorrect or will never happen.

The same goes for that atomic clock. It's pointless to include an atomic clock on the weapon itself. GPS works by mesuring the time differences between various transmitters and recievers. With the clock ON the weapon, there will be zero time difference and absolutly no way to get multiple fixes. The atomic clock in and of itself does nothing except let the bomb know exactly what time it is (or the target the bomb is droping on). Either way, that's useless information.

[Midav]

Np and no apologies needed.

[Midav]

Finally found something:

Tiny atomic clock could make smarter missiles


17:32 05 September 03

NewScientist.com news service

A matchbox sized atomic clock could be used to build more accurate automated aircraft navigation systems, its US military creators say.

Scientists at the Office of Naval Research have developed a functioning atomic clock measuring 40 cubic centimetres in volume - about the size of a matchbox.

The Ultra-miniature Rubidium Atomic Clock is so precise that it will lose only one second over 10,000 years. It also uses just one watt of power. Existing atomic clocks are many orders of magnitude larger - typically around 4,800 cubic centimetres - and normally consume around 50 watts.

John Kim, who led the research, says the device is small enough to be built into missiles or unmanned aircraft. It could then be used by an on-board computer to calculate position very accurately based on velocity and time.

Some modern missiles rely on Global Positioning System (GPS) satellites to calculate their position and home in on a target. But this system may be susceptible to jamming. Another means of on-board navigation is a gyroscope and accelerometer, but this technique is much less accurate.

Surrounding electrons

Kim says accuracy of the clock used can make a big difference to navigational precision. "If the clock is very accurate, the uncertainty is very small," he told New Scientist. "If it is less accurate it could be 30 feet instead of three feet."

Atomic clocks provide precise time measurements by measuring the oscillation of the nuclei of an atom and its cloud of surrounding electrons. This remains very stable over space and time. Rubidium-based atomic clocks are less accurate than caesium or hydrogen ones, but can more easily be miniaturised.

Kim says other research groups are working on similarly small atomic clock designs but believes theirs to be the most compact and power-efficient atomic clock anywhere. Kim says the clock would also be relatively cheap to make, costing around $2,000 per unit.

Atomic clocks are already extremely important to global navigation. Larger ones are installed aboard GPS satellites and provide highly accurate timestamps for each signal. This enables a ground-based receiver to work out how far away each satellite is and calculate its own coordinates. Atomic clocks are also used on the ground to synchronise computer networking equipment.

New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994134)

[wyrm_142]

GPS jammers aren't gonna do squat to a laser guided bombs, such as that GBU-12 in the picture.

:P

[AMBUSH]

LOL. What a joke. :lol: I would serve up a LGPB for each terrorist I came across if I could. Let me ask everyone this. If someone invaded your country would you not fight by any means possible? I sure the fook would. I just feel sorry for those misguided smucks who have been fed so much bullshi'ite they dont know any better. There aint nothing fair about war. Its all bout making some other guy die for his country. :-*$

[soma]

What's up with all these hyper patriotic people signing up and commenting in just the right threads :lol:

[AMBUSH]

What's up with all these hyper patriotic people signing up and commenting in just the right threads :lol:
Cause its just the right thread.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Well, with the current rate of 'smart' munitions are being made, it'll be a short time till stuff that will jam or even subvert control of those munitions is created...nothing like having that GPS guided bomb somehow land on something you'd rather not have it land on just because someone on the far side of town has a map, a fansy gadget, and your signals.

Perhaps. But that isn't going to be today. Until then, they're gonna be used ;)

The opponent would have to jam the aircraft delivering the bomb before or during data upload. Jamming terminal phase updates should hardly effect CEP.